Refutation: Kaa'ba is a relic of paganism.

[AntiKarateKid]

Hey, could you guys help me explain why the Kabba is not pagan and why Islam banished those pagan practices? I have a friend asking about this but I don't know how to explain it well. How do I respond to us circling the Kabba as the pagans did before? I told him that the Kabba was built by Abraham ( pbuh) and the pagans gradually infused the true religion with pagan aspects.

[Nerd]

Interesting topic, I think it would help if someone could run us by through the history of Kaaba.

[Umar001]

Hey, could you guys help me explain why the Kabba is not pagan and why Islam banished those pagan practices? I have a friend asking about this but I don't know how to explain it well. How do I respond to us circling the Kabba as the pagans did before? I told him that the Kabba was built by Abraham ( pbuh) and the pagans gradually infused the true religion with pagan aspects.

If you told him this then what's the problem?

Brother, you have friends who love asking you 101 questions, you must be busy.

[------]

:salamext:

Interesting topic, I think it would help if someone could run us by through the history of Kaaba.

I think it would help if you stopped taking every topic on your head.

Brother, you have friends who love asking you 101 questions, you must be busy.

Exactly my thoughts.

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[Malaikah]

:sl:

AntiKarateKid you've answered your own question, it is that simple, the Kabbah was originally built by a Muslim for the worship of Allah, the pagans used it for their own worship, all we did was take it back.

[Umar001]

Greatest example now is the bida' of people, think about it, we see so many different things which people do which aren't part of Islam. Yet they do them. Similarly, we can't help but think that the people innovated into Abraham and Ishmaels religion too. Peace be upon them.

[Nerd]

I Think It Would Help If You Stopped Taking Every Topic On Your Head.

:? :-[

[crayon]

Just say what you're thinking, that tawaf around the ka'aba is originally a muslim ritual, just because other people did it, it doesn't mean that we are imitating them. Plus, explain the differences in the pagan hajj and the muslim hajj (i personally don't know all of them, but i'm sure you could research a bit and find out).

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well Sikhs encircle the Guru Granth Sahib, is that then a Muslim ritual...?

[crayon]

I'm not sure what that is, Avar, but if it's not the kaaba (which I'm pretty sure it isn't), then it's not a muslim ritual, no. We're just talking about circumambulation about the kaaba, nothing else.

[AvarAllahNoor]

I'm not sure what that is, Avar, but if it's not the kaaba (which I'm pretty sure it isn't), then it's not a muslim ritual, no. We're just talking about circumambulation about the kaaba, nothing else.

It's the Sikh Scriptures. I'm stating a point. Just because an ancient ritual may have been used by others before/after, it does not make it exclusive to that religion or way of life. :)

[crayon]

True, but what I'm guessing the friend meant is that "if islam supposedly abolished all pagan practices, why do you still do tawaf around the kaaba?" So it's just explaining that tawaf is indeed a muslim ritual, not a pagan one...
Am I making sense or did I completely misunderstand you?...heh..

[Keltoi]

While I understand the concept at work here, namely that Islam always existed so therefore it was a Muslim ritual...from an historical standpoint the Kaaba was a traditional gathering place for pagan tribesmen long before the time of Muhammed. Many of the articles and books I've read that discuss the Kaaba mention Christian Bedoins making a pilgrimage there as well. The site became a center of commerce and trade due to the non-violence pact within twenty miles of the Kaaba. As to the pagan roots, I think it is obvious. However, I'm not sure it matters all that much. As long as people aren't worshipping the meteorite I don't see an issue there. Usually traditional and cultural activities are incorporated into faith.

[AvarAllahNoor]

True, but what I'm guessing the friend meant is that "if islam supposedly abolished all pagan practices, why do you still do tawaf around the kaaba?" So it's just explaining that tawaf is indeed a muslim ritual, not a pagan one...
Am I making sense or did I completely misunderstand you?...heh..

Well, to us it's to show respect and aknowledge it's prescence. I'm sure it's the same for Muslims with the Kaaba.

[AvarAllahNoor]

BTW - Any threads to state where the Black Stone came from? if so, can I be linked up to it i'm curious.

[------]

:salamext:

*sigh* the Search facility is there for a reason. TO USE.

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...nificance.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...one-mecca.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...ack-stone.html

[AntiKarateKid]

If you told him this then what's the problem?

Brother, you have friends who love asking you 101 questions, you must be busy.

I like to debate with them, and they me. Sorry about the search function, i forgot about it. Usually when I can't exactly describe something in detail, I come on here and ask. It seems much more helpful asking real people as opposed to just surfing sites. ANd yea, sorry I have these things on my mind alot and would would like to give people appropriate asnwers as much as possible....but I still forgot the search function srrrrrry.


The answer you gave made perfect sense, thanks alot!

[Umar001]

I like to debate with them, and they me. Sorry about the search function, i forgot about it. Usually when I can't exactly describe something in detail, I come on here and ask. It seems much more helpful asking real people as opposed to just surfing sites. ANd yea, sorry I have these things on my mind alot and would would like to give people appropriate asnwers as much as possible....but I still forgot the search function srrrrrry.


The answer you gave made perfect sense, thanks alot!

Brother the answer people gave you is the one you had all along. Also, I understand what you mean Iguess about debating, just dont let it control you.

:)

[------]

I like to debate with them, and they me.

:salamext:

Would it not be better to learn about your religion in detail, gather up facts, and then start debating? :skeleton:

[AntiKarateKid]

:salamext:

Would it not be better to learn about your religion in detail, gather up facts, and then start debating? :skeleton:

Your right, but I recently became more religious and I can't help myself sometimes. But you are right. Thanks for the answers too!

[------]

:salamext:

^ I know where ur coming from bro, that's what I felt like as well when I became practising. But InshaaAllaah try to learn about the religion more, and have a solid ground for your debates. :)

[tetsujin]

While I understand the concept at work here, namely that Islam always existed so therefore it was a Muslim ritual...from an historical standpoint the Kaaba was a traditional gathering place for pagan tribesmen long before the time of Muhammed. Many of the articles and books I've read that discuss the Kaaba mention Christian Bedoins making a pilgrimage there as well. The site became a center of commerce and trade due to the non-violence pact within twenty miles of the Kaaba... As long as people aren't worshipping the meteorite I don't see an issue there. Usually traditional and cultural activities are incorporated into faith.

Spot on.

In addition to that, I would like to mention that circling around a building or a city as a ritual or a prayer is not something invented by Muslims.

All the best wishes,


Faysal