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idontbelieve
07-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Hello, first a little about myself. I am an athiest, but I mean no harm. I think it is great that religion is in the world and if it makes you feel better by following it that's cool. I just dislike certain religions that limit people.


Why would you want to join a religion and faithfully believe in it if it limits your free will? Allah see and knows all by Islamic definition. To me that sounds like a bumb deal, living each day to the fullest and not know what will come seems more adventurous.

Getting into the positive half of the afterlife may be a drive but why limit yourself? All people can really do is just be nice to your fellow brother.

A George Carlin quote pretty much sum's my shpeal up.

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you."
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SixTen
07-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by idontbelieve
Hello, first a little about myself. I am an athiest, but I mean no harm. I think it is great that religion is in the world and if it makes you feel better by following it that's cool. I just dislike certain religions that limit people.
Yes, but limitation is in existance in the secular world too - look at laws that you must abide to, the tax you have to pay etc. Limits are made for your own good.

Why would you want to join a religion and faithfully believe in it if it limits your free will? Allah see and knows all by Islamic definition. To me that sounds like a bumb deal, living each day to the fullest and not know what will come seems more adventurous.
Your free will is never limited, it is your choice in the end. People do what the religion teaches them - because they believe it is the right thing to do - they do this out of their own free will - just as you may not steal.

Getting into the positive half of the afterlife may be a drive but why limit yourself? All people can really do is just be nice to your fellow brother.
It is not so simple my little padawan.

A George Carlin quote pretty much sum's my shpeal up.

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you."
Oh, how to ruin your post.
Reply

aamirsaab
07-14-2008, 03:24 PM
:sl:
Here's a list of things that Islam says I shouldn't do:

smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Here's a list of what I don't want to do...EVER and neither should any human being ever do:
smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Wow, the resemblance is uncanny.
Reply

SixTen
07-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Here's a list of things that Islam says I shouldn't do:

smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Here's a list of what I don't want to do...EVER and neither should any human being ever do:
smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Wow, the resemblance is uncanny.
Game, set and match!
Reply

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idontbelieve
07-14-2008, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by SixTen
Yes, but limitation is in existance in the secular world too - look at laws that you must abide to, the tax you have to pay etc. Limits are made for your own good.
How are taxes good? I would love to live in a hippie commune, in a life of friends and NO taxes.

Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
Here's a list of things that Islam says I shouldn't do:

smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Here's a list of what I don't want to do...EVER and neither should any human being ever do:
smoke weed everyday
do drugs
harm the environment
Murder
Rape
dirty sexual related stuff
steal
be an ass

Wow, the resemblance is uncanny.
I can agree with many things on that list, but why say, "Be muslim and do these thing, OMG duh."

Alot of those things seem like common sense. With the exception of 2 things.....

Smoke weed every day? Weed is good for you, here is proof.


Doesn’t cause lung cancer - http://www.thoracic.org/sections/pub...ng-cancer.html

Doesn’t cause brain damage - http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...t-damage-brain

Cannabis shrinks tumors - http://www.alternet.org/story/9257/

Medicinal
Boosts brain cell growth http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com...lth_news.shtml

Marijuana may block Alzheimer's
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0224111638.htm

Medical marijuana: study shows that THC slows atherosclerosis
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the...l_marijua.html

Cannabis compound tackles blood vessel disease
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/22658.php

Marijuana Chemical Fights Hardened Arteries
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/n...dened-arteries

Marijuana’s cancer healing properties
http://www.november.org/stayinfo/bre...cerKiller.html

Decreased depression in marijuana users.
http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15964704


And the second thing, dirty sexual related stuff? Why shoud religion limit what you can do in the bed room? If you have a fetish or something kinda on weird spectrum, aslong as both parties are okay with it, who's to say any difference?

And there no need to get defensive, I am just trying to have a discussion.
Reply

aamirsaab
07-14-2008, 03:41 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by idontbelieve
...
I can agree with many things on that list, but why say, "Be muslim and do these thing, OMG duh."
I think you may have missed my point. By agreeing with those principles indicates that one is a muslim. These morals come from religion as a whole. Proof of this is when we take the non-religious root of allowing any action by categorising it as a ''freedom''.

Example:
Person A: ''OMG, you just called my dead grandma a cow''
Person B: ''Freedom of speech, baby!''

Alot of those things seem like common sense. With the exception of 2 things.
Smoke weed every day? Weed is good for you, here is proof......
Not every day though! For medicinal purposes it is fine. In any other form, it's BAD.

And the second thing, dirty sexual related stuff? Why shoud religion limit what you can do in the bed room? If you have a fetish or something kinda on weird spectrum, aslong as both parties are okay with it, who's to say any difference?
Mainly cus a) spread of diseases and B) it's proper dirty (like anal......eugh!)

And there no need to get defensive, I am just trying to have a discussion.
My apologies for it coming out defensive. I just find it a bit silly when people in general say Islam restricts certain freedoms....when in reality these so called freedoms are bull (you said it yourself, most of the list I presented is based on common sense)
Reply

idontbelieve
07-14-2008, 03:57 PM
Well its my bad as well, I don't mean to hang all I say over Islam, I mean Christianity....ect.

But why is it if you agree with that list you are muslim? Things like don't kill, don't rape, I learned those things from listening to Nirvana growing up.

Marijuana truely a great plant, I smoke it everday and I am doing fine. And I really recommend renting the movie, Super High Me, it is a movie done in the same fasion as Super Size Me, a guy quits liquor and marijuana for a month then he does nothing but smoke marijuana for a month, and the results are truly amazing. Sperm count, SAT score all went up, his ESP test went up, he did gain 8 pounds(MUNCHIES! :D) and his healthy was unaffected.

Islam is one thing I can hold pressure on by bringing down the view of marijuana usage to all its followers. Marijuana was put here by God(Allah)(Spaghetti Monster) So why not use it?
Reply

AntiKarateKid
07-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by idontbelieve
Hello, first a little about myself. I am an athiest, but I mean no harm. I think it is great that religion is in the world and if it makes you feel better by following it that's cool. I just dislike certain religions that limit people.


Why would you want to join a religion and faithfully believe in it if it limits your free will? Allah see and knows all by Islamic definition. To me that sounds like a bumb deal, living each day to the fullest and not know what will come seems more adventurous.

Getting into the positive half of the afterlife may be a drive but why limit yourself? All people can really do is just be nice to your fellow brother.

A George Carlin quote pretty much sum's my shpeal up.

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you."

Honestly. The " why does Allah punish us if he loves us question" has been dealt with so many times and answered in all of them. In my experience atheists surround themselves with these little questions which the smugly carry around without realizing that theists have already answered those. If this is not the same with you, then forgive me. George Carlin needs to do his homework.
Reply

AntiKarateKid
07-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by idontbelieve
Well its my bad as well, I don't mean to hang all I say over Islam, I mean Christianity....ect.

But why is it if you agree with that list you are muslim? Things like don't kill, don't rape, I learned those things from listening to Nirvana growing up.

Marijuana truely a great plant, I smoke it everday and I am doing fine. And I really recommend renting the movie, Super High Me, it is a movie done in the same fasion as Super Size Me, a guy quits liquor and marijuana for a month then he does nothing but smoke marijuana for a month, and the results are truly amazing. Sperm count, SAT score all went up, his ESP test went up, he did gain 8 pounds(MUNCHIES! :D) and his healthy was unaffected.

Islam is one thing I can hold pressure on by bringing down the view of marijuana usage to all its followers. Marijuana was put here by God(Allah)(Spaghetti Monster) So why not use it?


Ive got a fist, why not punch the guy next to me? Have you ever heard any thiest tell you that life is a test? It's actually what we all believe.

Allah has endowed every human being with Fitrah which a tendency to do virtuos acts. The purpose of religion is to refine that and give it direction. I lsitened to songs that talked about ratting out you homie being bad ( or minding your own business, which is virtuos) but then having sex with the hot girl next door.

What is right is right and Allah tells us what is right and gives us all the details. You as a human realize that murder is wrong. Good, fitrah at its best. Now, can you tell me what cases are exeptions? All the intracacies? Abortion? Self defense? Vegetarianism?

No so simple now eh?
Reply

aamirsaab
07-14-2008, 04:41 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by idontbelieve
Well its my bad as well, I don't mean to hang all I say over Islam, I mean Christianity....ect.

But why is it if you agree with that list you are muslim? Things like don't kill, don't rape, I learned those things from listening to Nirvana growing up.
As I said, those morals were derived from religion as a whole.

Islam is one thing I can hold pressure on by bringing down the view of marijuana usage to all its followers. Marijuana was put here by God(Allah)(Spaghetti Monster) So why not use it?
Marijuana may indeed have positive effects, just as say wine is (apparently, a glass of wine helps the liver...or something). However, it is also deemed an intoxicant. As a general rule of thumb in Islam, all intoxicants are regarded as haram.

Some backing for this from the hadith:

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: ''Every intoxicant is prohibited.'' Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4088)


''That which intoxicates in large quantities is prohibited in small quantities.''(Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, and others, with a sound chain of narrators

Additionally, that which is haram is often harmful to oneself, others or society as a whole - that's a pretty good methodology, no?

Thus, Islam (and possibly religion as a whole, though I don't know enough about all the religions to be 100% sure about this) actually teaches you to keep control over one's own body - in all manners of speaking. In the long term, this translates into the betterment (and continuation) of society.
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