Maintenance Loan ..allowed?

[youngsister]

:sl:

Does anyone know if taking the Maintenance Loan out is haram?
Is about 3k it hasnt got any intrest however it has inflation..

My friend is starting Uni and she needs the money but she is not sure if is islamically allowed..:)

jazakallah khair:w:

[Cabdullahi]

Sister im going uni this year also alhamdulilah but im only taking the maintenance grant and thats not haram but the loan for the uni is haram cus it involves interest but what can i do?

[SixTen]

Sister im going uni this year also alhamdulilah but im only taking the maintenance grant and thats not haram but the loan for the uni is haram cus it involves interest but what can i do?

Its actually inflation based - fatwa's exist which permit it - simply based on that its for educational use in a legal tender based country - with inflation based payments just being added bonus.

[Faye]

:sl:

Does anyone know if taking the Maintenance Loan out is haram?
Is about 3k it hasnt got any intrest however it has inflation..

My friend is starting Uni and she needs the money but she is not sure if is islamically allowed..:)

jazakallah khair:w:

Exactly what is an 'inflation based loan'?

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[SixTen]

Exactly what is an 'inflation based loan'?

2000pounds today, will be worth less in the future i.e. inflation. So, you pay a bit more (the inflation rate, usually around 2percent), to balance out the difference of the depriciation of the money, so technically you are paying back what you loaned.

[Faye]

I was reading an article about this by Mufti Taqi Usmani. According to him, inflation based loans are not allowed, I think. Can't remember it very well. There were lots of minute details...

I think you should get a fatwa on this. This is clearly not a simple problem where everybody agrees on the same answer

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

Question

Is it harm to pay interest based on inflation?

Answer

Praise be to Allaah.

Yes, it is haraam to pay interest on loans even if that is because of inflation.

The scholars are agreed that if it is stipulated that a loan be repaid with something extra, that is riba (usury) which is forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger.

Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (6/436):

Every loan in which it is stipulated that something extra be repaid is haraam, and there is no difference of scholarly opinion on this point.

Ibn al-Mundhir said: They are unanimously agreed that if the lender stipulates that the borrower pay something extra or give him s gift, and gives the loan on the basis of receiving something extra, that is riba.

It was narrated that Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood forbade loans that brought benefits.

The scholars stated that the borrower must return the same amount of property as he borrowed, regardless of whether its value on the day of paying it back is higher or lower than it was on the day that he borrowed it.

But Imam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) made an exception in one case, which is if the ruler has forbidden dealing in the currency in which the loan was made, in which case its value on the day of the loan should be worked out, then the loan should be repaid in the new currency. That is because a ban on dealing in it means that it is no longer valid and no longer has any value.

Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (6/441):

We mentioned that the borrower should return the same amount, whether the price has fallen or risen, or is still the same. … If the loan was in coins that the ruler has banned, and they are no longer dealt in, then the lender is entitled to the equivalent value, but he does not have to accept it. … Maalik, al-Layth ibn Sa’d and al-Shaafa’i said: He is not entitled to anything except what he lent, because that is not because anything happened to what he lent, so it is like a decrease in its price. The evidence for what we have said is that if the ruler bans it, then it cannot be spent and it is no longer valid. So it is as if part of it has been destroyed or lost. But as for a fall in prices, that does not mean that it cannot be repaid, whether it is a lot or a little, because nothing has happened to it, rather the price has changed. It is like wheat, when the price for it rises or falls.

And Allaah knows best.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/12541

:w:

[SixTen]

Yes, I read quite a few fatwa's. But try see where Im coming from.

University, costs quite a bit - and the government noticed that not enough people were going to university - because of the cost.

So, they made, a Non-profit system, which makes poor people equally likely to go to university - that is not have a financial burden.

Something so good, that is, giving the poor a chance to compete at the level of those who were fortunate enough to have rich parents - can it really be forbidden?

Its not even commerce, so the whole riba thing becomes void. You can't even be ruined of debt, because you have to be earning atleast 15k, or you don't even have to pay back the money.

I mean, I just don't see why it would be forbidden, such a good thing... If it is only got, because without it, you would not be able to attend university, I don't see why it would be forbidden. The people who make the fatwa's - seem to miss out the non-profit system part, or the concept of the thing - it instead is lumped as a general loan you use for a car.

['Abd al-Baari]

:sl:

Yes i understand what you mean. However all the Fatawaa i can find seem to be general and not specific to University, which is why it may be best for the sis to speak to an aalim, if possible.

:w:

[SixTen]

Some of them state - "just work a few years or part-time" - basically telling the poor students, live with your disadvantage - and take the even harder way - which will limit your likelyhood to achieve as well as the rich kids (statistically). This is already true (that rich kids have the advantages), but then if it is definatly forbidden, you are just putting oil on the fire, on the rich/poor inequality. I am not saying, that ofcourse, I am a scholar hence I overrule all - but I am not talking off my emotions either - rather I see something which is a morale good in the western countries (don't see alot of them) and it is being forbidden so quickly by fatwas. I fail to see how the hadiths of riba - really actually correlate to this situation at all.

[Faye]

Some of them state - "just work a few years or part-time" - basically telling the poor students, live with your disadvantage - and take the even harder way - which will limit your likelyhood to achieve as well as the rich kids (statistically). This is already true (that rich kids have the advantages), but then if it is definatly forbidden, you are just putting oil on the fire, on the rich/poor inequality. I am not saying, that ofcourse, I am a scholar hence I overrule all - but I am not talking off my emotions either - rather I see something which is a morale good in the western countries (don't see alot of them) and it is being forbidden so quickly by fatwas. I fail to see how the hadiths of riba - really actually correlate to this situation at all.

All men are created equal - but some are created poorer than others. The only true fairness and equality will exist on the Day of Judgement. We should try to give thanks in this world for the Ni'mat we have, (which we did absolutely nothing to deserve) and not envy those more fortunate than us.

[SixTen]

All men are created equal - but some are created poorer than others. The only true fairness and equality will exist on the Day of Judgement. We should try to give thanks in this world for the Ni'mat we have, (which we did absolutely nothing to deserve) and not envy those more fortunate than us.

Yes, but even then, Zakat is in place - to help the poor people. So, why couldn't this system, which helps them be acceptable? Islam does not say - let the poor be disadvantaged, heck it encourages charity and helping. Nothing to do with not being thankful or envious.

[Faye]

Yes, but even then, Zakat is in place - to help the poor people. So, why couldn't this system, which helps them be acceptable? Islam does not say - let the poor be disadvantaged, heck it encourages charity and helping. Nothing to do with not being thankful or envious.

Why not use the recommended in Islam means...Zakat...Sadqah...Qarzi Hasanah?

Just the fact that you are poor and disadvantaged doesn't mean that Haram becomes Halal (unless you're dying or something). After all, compared to Ashaabo Suffah, (extremely poor and disadvantaged students) you are probably very rich, and they didn't take riba loans.

Though whether this particular loan is actually Haram is as yet undecided. Why don't you ask for a fatwaa?

[SixTen]

Why not use the recommended in Islam means...Zakat...Sadqah...Qarzi Hasanah? Or are these not available?

Because, that system is not implemented in the western world - only the muslim minority pay it - and it doesn't go to the poor people in England. Anyway, you just can't compare a western country to a muslim one - so much differences - even when it comes to the money - one is legal tender other is gold/silver based. So, you are not helping the problem at all.

[Faye]

Because, that system is not implemented in the western world - only the muslim minority pay it - and it doesn't go to the poor people in England. Anyway, you just can't compare a western country to a muslim one - so much differences - even when it comes to the money - one is legal tender other is gold/silver based. So, you are not helping the problem at all.

Ok...sorry...haven't ever lived in a non-muslim country...but money in Pakistan is not gold/silver based.

['Abd-al Latif]

:sl:

Does anyone know if taking the Maintenance Loan out is haram?
Is about 3k it hasnt got any intrest however it has inflation..

My friend is starting Uni and she needs the money but she is not sure if is islamically allowed..:)

jazakallah khair:w:

:w:

'Inflation rate' is just a kind word...trust me, they will charge you interest and I personally know people who are being charged interest from these loans.

Keep away from it cuz the interest they charge you is crazy, the 'inflation rate' rises very quickly and before the first year is over it could raise to near double the original amount. I can't advise you enough to stay away from it!

The government makes people it's puppets by putting them in debt. They snap a finger and you have to jump because you owe them. Don't be their puppet. And last but not least don't fall into a major sin.

[youngsister]

:sl: Thank you for everyone that replied,,
Abdlatif ye you right my friend decided to keep away now..she wont be taking it alhamdullah :)