What is Science? Do we know?

[Science101]

I have been researching the meaning of the word "Science" and am wondering what your thoughts are.

In western culture how the word "science" is defined is very important to scientists. It is difficult to do but still seen as vital that there be only one definition, of one method, and that teachers properly describe the same thing. That's what I'm looking for, the best way to describe science there can be.

Western science began over 1000 years ago, when Muslims first developed the "scientific method" now used today.

c. 800 AD — An early experimental method begins emerging among Muslim chemists beginning with Geber who introduces controlled experiments; other fields (early Islamic philosophy, theology, law and science of hadith) introduce the methods of citation, peer review and open inquiry leading to development of consensus
1021 — The Iraqi Muslim physicist and scientist Alhazen introduces the experimental method and combines observations, experiments and rational arguments in his Book of Optics to show that his intromission theory of vision is scientifically correct, and that the emission theory of vision supported by Ptolemy and Euclid is wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...entific_method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science

The first description of the scientific method comes from Prophet Muhammad who did well considering how back then there were not many words useful to describe what is now called science. Followers are here told that to be wise they must look for signs in life and nature around them.

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the benefit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise." (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:164)

http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa050600a.htm
http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/002.asp

From what I could find in history, his followers seem to have taken that to heart and soon they were doing science the world had never seen before. This would explain why he was seen as so wise, in early times, having given them the science many still think the west invented.

This is how Wikipedia describes a western way of describing science. We here have Natural causes that we can see with our senses that are signs the wise use to discover how things work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism

The Supernatural is the unexplained, unseen, undetectable with our machines, so will not work with the scientific method where you need data and experiments to demonstrate how something works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernaturalism

If you could snap your fingers to make something supernatural present itself, then it is now in the Natural world, no longer Supernatural.

In the west there is only "Natural Science" with there being no "Supernatural Science" . Yet, in a previous topic how science is defined in Islam, there are two categories one being "religious science" and the other "rational science":

Islam divides science into two categories: religious science and rational science. As long as it is not against the main Islamic teachings -- that is, belief in God, angels and the end of the world -- there is freedom in rational science.

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...o-science.html

It would seen that "rational science" would be based on the Natural. While the "religious science" the Supernatural. But that presents a problem because science only limits the search for a Creator to Natural explanations, does not deny one. And as demonstrated by the clay science topic, science can add detail to things where there were once no words to even describe.

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...y-science.html

Science here shows it is possible for a once very common clay to be used to start life. And from what science and history found, the Black-Stone it is a meteoric shock wave produced melting of mineral (as makes clay) with small cell-like membrane enclosed gas filled vesicles inside, it can float in water. The process that formed it, parallels how our cell membranes stay together, with the reaction in the Black-Stone having been frozen in time by it right after cooling to stone. Science is here, not taking anything away from religion, science makes it more fun, in this case for even westerners who know very little about Prophet Muhammed.

In science there is a mystery leading to mystery that makes religion more interesting. We are like back in time looking for signs like the ancients did. Only limitation is that science requires Natural explanations for things. But we can even write a new "Theory of Intelligent Design" you may have already seen that so far, scientists and educators are OK enough with when described exactly this way:

http://scientific-design-theory.blogspot.com/

The problem for the Christian based ID movement that the courts would not allow is they relied on supernatural explanations and their theory was more like one sentence not explaining how anything worked. Arguments against someone else's evolution science is not science of their own. Courts declared their ID to not be science, and they were right. But that does not mean such a theory can never be written. I wrote one that although simple, at least shows it is possible. That is why there is undoubtedly a religious science that has nothing at all to do with the supernatural. Not many know this, which I try to change.

Science has so profoundly impacted all cultures, it is important that we fully understand what science is. But even the west where you would think it has been all thought out in perfect detail, how to define "science" is still debated by experts. The perfect definition has never been found. Maybe we can find one?

What is Science? Do we even know yet? What do you think?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

mashaAllaah great thread :)

[جوري]

Great Post thanks.. reps when I get the chance..

peace

[Science101]

Thank you!!!

I'm so thrilled by it you inspired me to add chromosomal first-humans from non-ape to the short version of the theory. I'm convince there is a single couple, that appeared from not really ape. It might not prove Genesis word to word true, but it's better than science having no such couple in it at all. I'll show it when done, and if you think it looks bad then I'll remove it, but I think you'll like it.

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ intruiging! im waiting to see it :)

[Dr.Trax]

Interesting post ......I didn't knew that this is also written in WIKIPEDIA!
Thank you!

Peace.........

[Science101]

Hi again Dr.Trax!

I know how you liked some of the vision in the ID movement so I made sure to start off the new theory with the sentence that the movement described ID to be, followed by what I have so far been able to find in science to evidence it. Hope you find this ID much more fun, and know how not many people knowing about this yet, puts all here at the right place at the right time to be part of the future, a little. It's like science went our way so here we all are writing part of the theory of the century at IslamicBoard with thoughts from other topics included to as much as possible express everyone with one thing that describes things in a new way.

It was still hard for me to add a little Adam and Eve to the theory. I am always careful to stay far away from evolution so there is no fighting, never mention it, ignore it, making first humans a hard topic to cover without getting into evolutionary theory controversy. So I focused on what can even with good regular microscope be seen as different about our genome, and no more. A good scientist will caution that chromosome count alone does not describe what makes us human. Yet around the time scientists say we acquired human traits there was this fusion event to in a sense mark a special moment. If that becomes something that you find defines humans the most and scientists still have no better time marker then they will follow that way of thinking along with us so I can then put it into the theory.

I will let others decide whether the fusion is evidence of an Adam and Eve moment or not. I am happy connecting science together. It happened to be one idea that can be further developed, worth writing into the theory to see how it looks to you.

Theory of Intelligent Design (Version 3)

The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause simultaneously existing at multiple levels (example genetic code forms long-term memory of self-perpetuating reproduction cycle) which can increase in complexity in much the same way that we on another level with our brain learn, acting using forces (example polar forces witnessed in self-assembly of cell membranes experiment also forms cell-like vesicles) where emergent from the behavior of self-powered atoms (that makes all matter) are crystalline molecular designs required to sustain life as we know it including the highly complex genome catalyzed ATP synthase and flagellum motors to the very simple sunlight powered clay/dust/mineral metabolic pathways to power forward/reverse Krebs Cycle metabolism that produces the starting molecules all else (including genome) self-assembles from, to then one step at a time build upon a previous design as is evidenced by the fossil record where never once was there not a design present for the new design to have come from.


Chromosomal complexity may increase by two entire chromosomes fusing at opposite ends to become one, which makes humans unique among its kind by both parents having such a fusion making a total of 46 chromosomes, not the 48 of the lineage. In the first of two steps, a parent passed to offspring a fused copy in one of the two parental gametes to birth a being with 47 chromosomes. That fusion then passed into the population until the fusion was in both gametes, to make the first 46 chromosome beings, from which we came.


New designs are not always advantageous to survival because the organism itself is in part intelligently and consciously directing their change in design by what it finds desirable in the variety available to select as a mate. Examples include the peacocks where females selecting the largest most attractive tail, led to males with brilliant displays, even though this makes it more difficult to fly from predators. In humans the looks of "sex symbols" sometimes computer enhanced to represent the conscious ideals not yet common in our morphology.



Theory by Gary Gaulin, August
10, 2008

http://scientific-design-theory.blogspot.com/

What is your honest opinion of the newest version of the theory?

[Khayal]

Thanks for a very informative thread!


.

[جوري]

ovarian cysts will vanish on their own within three months of initial presentation anyhow.. there is no need for 'holistic' treatement.. Having PCO or more complicated conditions etc requires FDA approved medical treatement perhaps even surgical intervention.. not eye of newt with a pinch of cinnamon..

You are right, science is meant to run in a substantive pattern to better quality of life..
hence medications and treatment have to undego rigorous trials and testing of three to four different phases, with peer reviewed studies released in journals before they are pushed out on people......

'prophetic medicine' can be used to supplement modern finds as it mostly deals with the healing properties of foods, like dates, honey, black seed.. proper nutrition is the basic unit for a well functuioning immune system..

I have lost a friend to 'holistic diet pills' and another is in severe kidney failure and frankly will do my part to warn folks when the chance presents itself about the dangers of unregulated over the counter medication!

Hope you'll forgive me!

cheers

[Chuck]

What is your honest opinion of the newest version of the theory?

It doesn't really matter, there is lot of bias anything remotely going against fundamental Darwinist view point. For example, take a look at this case: http://personal.uncc.edu/jmarks/dnahyb/DNAhyb.html

Jonathan Marks is evolutionist, but look what happened to him there.

[Science101]

It might have taken some time to have the right things to say, but I did not let you down. Every single day I was working on this reply, already must have deleted at least a thousand words that just kept changing by the day. I was even to the point of being frustrated at whatever I thought to say the next day sounding not worth saying. But now, the time on its own right to come back to explain where I was and what I was working on with your thoughts and values in it entering Western education through the Christian Creationism debate now happening in Kansas, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina, so you can now start at the following link where there are several replies by me (same avatar as here) that link out from there to other material I wrote to describe more.

I must also mention that further in (in case a dilemma) one of the links has a post in it that references a video on MTV where the young woman is well dressed (coat and skirt) for a MTV video with no kissing, violence, swearing ("Hell" shouted this way is expression of agreement with excitement) or anything dirty. Has cars chasing each other action while they in another place sing and dance on jets. Wanted to say that I would not purposely spring something offensive on anyone. I only reward something that is not all bad, for the kind of art that it is, and where it came from.

Here is the link to where our Muslim science that came from this forum, first enters into the discussion and more into Kansas but will have to link out a ways before reaching. Here's where you need to start, with replies that follow it where Muslim science shows.

http://forums.starnewsonline.com/eve...377#6151085377

I also had to say something to help Skye feel better. Is the hardest thing of all to answer especially when not their time and caused by what we sometimes unnecessarily do to ourselves to feel accepted when chances are we were already very well accepted to begin with. I had that problem when younger from being too skinny. Was very self-conscious like everyone thought I looked like a mutant. But it was all in my mind. Eye contact looks where I wondered whether they liked me or I had toilet paper stuck on my shoe, was because I was more popular than I ever imagined. I didn't know then. Wish I did.

Being worried about what people think, can be torturous especially in teens and twenties. So take it from me who found out the hard way, many more people think you're fine the way you are, than you ever know. Must not hurt ourselves trying to be perfect.

At least please see doctor or at least nutritionist before going off on a diet or something, should help it work to have someone monitor progress and be there when you need to try something else when one way doesn't work. Science is there to help us, so we don't have to find such hard words to say when things go wrong and have to give condolences like now.

We can at least still keep a part alive in what they ultimately change, so I wanted to say something to help them live on this way even more, for whatever help that might also be to Skye who I know has been through more than a person should. What can be turned around there, is making it not happen anymore. In memory of those lost, we can, so none need be lost that way again.

There is a power we have together, that I had to somehow properly explain. Best way I could think of to do that was to make it show in people some who might have once called all of us "meteorite worshipers" but you know me I would think that's great and thank them then tell everyone about our meteorite science so they're all meteorite worshipers with us by the time I'm done with that thought! :D

What we started, is gaining great respect. And your being Muslim is to your credit, advantage. Have to be proud of that, not think people are thinking bad about you, especially when you are now more like celebrities for being so surprisingly scientific. Any bias against all of us, at least as it pertains to science, is from that now being made gone!