For theists: Local Culture vs religion

[AntiKarateKid]

In the most recent Time magazine a comment from one of the readers caught my eye. She insinuated that religion replacing local customs was condescending and that it destroys their culture.

I would like to know your opinions on this.

I personally, thought the woman was extremely foolish and narrowminded to say the VERY least. Obviously some sort of athiest who completely misses the point of religion and what it hopes to accomplish for mandind.


Local Pagan Custom meets Islam- Pagan custom erased
Local custom alien to Islam but not infracting any rules in Quran/Hadith- custom preserved

What the hek is so hard for these people to understand? It seems like they close their eyes, and turn their noses up at religion jsut so they could make their disbelief look noble in some way or another.

[aamirsaab]

In the most recent Time magazine a comment from one of the readers caught my eye. She insinuated that religion replacing local customs was condescending and that it destroys their culture...

Meh, typical angry athiest. My counter question to that person would be: define her country's culture. Heck, British culture is booze, cigs and porn - yeah, that's a great culture to be proud of! Besides, religion doesn't replace anything. If we look at the teachings or religion, who follows them? The followers of the religion - everyone else does what they want. How the heck is that replacing a local custom or destroying a culture; us theists aren't asking for you to change, we're asking can we pray here, can we live here - we aren't asking anyone to move out and we aren't asking anyone else to stop what they are doing. We're adding but people like the angry athiest in the Times magazine assume we are subtratcing.

...What the hek is so hard for these people to understand? It seems like they close their eyes, and turn their noses up at religion jsut so they could make their disbelief look noble in some way or another.

One of the speakers at JIMAS conference this year gave a parable; there is a difference between one who is blind and one who closes their eyes. No matter how hard you try to convince a man who doesn't open his eyes that the sun exists, he will never believe it. You can say anything you like: ''you can feel the heat from the sun'' His response: ''so what, it could be fire - I've felt fire before!''
The blind man, obviously cannot see the sun, whereas the one who closes his eyes does not want to see the sun.

Another speaker said that the best way to convince them of religion is the concept of tawheed and that there IS a God - since this is the foundation of (theistic) religion.

[KAding]

In the most recent Time magazine a comment from one of the readers caught my eye. She insinuated that religion replacing local customs was condescending and that it destroys their culture.

I would like to know your opinions on this.

I personally, thought the woman was extremely foolish and narrowminded to say the VERY least. Obviously some sort of athiest who completely misses the point of religion and what it hopes to accomplish for mandind.

Local Pagan Custom meets Islam- Pagan custom erased
Local custom alien to Islam but not infracting any rules in Quran/Hadith- custom preserved

What the hek is so hard for these people to understand? It seems like they close their eyes, and turn their noses up at religion jsut so they could make their disbelief look noble in some way or another.

There are always people that act 'angry' when they think their own culture is being displaced by something that to them is alien. Surely we see the same in much of the Muslim world, where many are angry about Western cultural influences.

I agree with you though. Culture's are not static, they always change to reflect changing beliefs. Culture only changes if the people who practice it allow it to be changed.

[KAding]

Meh, typical angry athiest. My counter question to that person would be: define her country's culture. Heck, British culture is booze, cigs and porn - yeah, that's a great culture to be proud of! Besides, religion doesn't replace anything. If we look at the teachings or religion, who follows them? The followers of the religion - everyone else does what they want. How the heck is that replacing a local custom or destroying a culture; us theists aren't asking for you to change, we're asking can we pray here, can we live here - we aren't asking anyone to move out and we aren't asking anyone else to stop what they are doing. We're adding but people like the angry athiest in the Times magazine assume we are subtratcing.

Of course, everyone 'adds' to the culture. Culture is little less than the sum of a societies parts.

One of the speakers at JIMAS conference this year gave a parable; there is a difference between one who is blind and one who closes their eyes. No matter how hard you try to convince a man who doesn't open his eyes that the sun exists, he will never believe it. You can say anything you like: ''you can feel the heat from the sun'' His response: ''so what, it could be fire - I've felt fire before!''
The blind man, obviously cannot see the sun, whereas the one who closes his eyes does not want to see the sun.

Another speaker said that the best way to convince them of religion is the concept of tawheed and that there IS a God - since this is the foundation of (theistic) religion.

Quite condescending. Personally I find this argument quite insulting, as if those who don't believe your truth are "closing their eyes" and are purposefully thwarting attempts to find the truth.

Why can't you simply accept that people in all honesty reach different conclusions about such matters?

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[Whatsthepoint]

It's the typical anthropological rant, they hate to see all the amazing primitive cultures they'd like to study becoming westernized or islamized etc.

[aamirsaab]

Quite condescending. Personally I find this argument quite insulting, as if those who don't believe your truth are "closing their eyes" and are purposefully thwarting attempts to find the truth.

There are those who cannot see and there are those who choose not to see.

Why can't you simply accept that people in all honesty reach different conclusions about such matters?

I can and do (it is why I get along well with people from other religions!). I am talking about specific things here. Let us examplify it in a class room; you're teaching maths. 2 + 2 equals 4. The child says no. No matter what you tell that child, they contradict you. This is what is meant by closing one's eyes.

[KAding]

There are those who cannot see and there are those who choose not to see.

You're not quite helping to alleviate your condescending attitude here :D. So those that don't agree with you are either willingly deceiving themselves or too stupid?

I can and do (it is why I get along well with people from other religions!). I am talking about specific things here. Let us examplify it in a class room; you're teaching maths. 2 + 2 equals 4. The child says no. No matter what you tell that child, they contradict you. This is what is meant by closing one's eyes.

That actually quite nicely illustrates the point I am trying to make. How often do children in a classroom say "no" when a math teachers says 2+2 = 4? Why would anyone willingly and with intent try to not know the truth? Especially if that truth might save you from hellfire? It doesn't make sense.

[Zafran]

salaam

KAding have you read the bible or the Quran? - atleast the translations.

[Karina]

Heck, British culture is booze, cigs and porn

No it's not! How incredibly offensive!

[KAding]

salaam

KAding have you read the bible or the Quran? - atleast the translations.

I've read parts of both, yes, the translations at least. I started on both, but finished neither. Never got past the first 100 or so pages in either book.

I'm planning to try again in the future! I'm even considering taking bible classes, as I think I need to know better what it is Christianity teaches exactly.

[Zafran]

salaam

read both books and you decide what is the word of God otherwise its a waste of time arguing when you havent even read the messege. When I mean the messege i mean the Quran as I am a Mulsim.

some people dont bother to read these books but still argue, those people choose to close there eyes as they dont even look into the messege.

peace,

[aamirsaab]

You're not quite helping to alleviate your condescending attitude here :D. So those that don't agree with you are either willingly deceiving themselves or too stupid?

No. They are either blind or deliberately close their eyes - that is what I am saying.

That actually quite nicely illustrates the point I am trying to make. How often do children in a classroom say "no" when a math teachers says 2+2 = 4? Why would anyone willingly and with intent try to not know the truth? Especially if that truth might save you from hellfire? It doesn't make sense.

lol exactly. But I've decided not to dwell on that particular matter any longer - if we cannot agree on the existence of God in the first place, then the rest of the teachings are pointless.

No it's not! How incredibly offensive!

That comment was meant as a joke. The fact is you can't really define British culture (or any other country's culture) since:
A) it is an amalgamation of many different ones.
B) what the heck is culture anyway?!

[Karina]

That comment was meant as a joke. The fact is you can't really define British culture (or any other country's culture) since:
A) it is an amalgamation of many different ones.
B) what the heck is culture anyway?!

Let's be honest it wasn't really said in a joking manner, was it? Not a very sensible comment for a moderator.

ANYWAY. As a sociology student, i would say that culture is a combination of norms, values, beliefs, traditions, laws, customs, language, morals, rituals, motivations and dress amongst other things.

Much of our British culture is historical, complex and beautiful. IF you look beyond the "booze, cigs and porn" that is, which you will well know are in no way unique to the UK!

[AntiKarateKid]

Of course, everyone 'adds' to the culture. Culture is little less than the sum of a societies parts.



Quite condescending. Personally I find this argument quite insulting, as if those who don't believe your truth are "closing their eyes" and are purposefully thwarting attempts to find the truth.

Why can't you simply accept that people in all honesty reach different conclusions about such matters?

Hi Kading,


God gives us religion. Man gives people culture. As far as I am concerned religion takes precedence over culture. You as an atheist believe that both are man made yet I as a theist do not. It is not condescending, to correct people with the truth. If there were still Apollo worshippers around I would gladly walk up to one and explain to him why he is wrong and that the culture he has based around a false deithy is a sham. It is his choice whether or not to accept it, mine is only to communicate it.


That is not condescension, that is enlightenment.

[mediadave]

No it's not! How incredibly offensive!

Indeed. Anyway, living in North London I know that muslim culture consists entirely of smoking dope, hanging around in the street, making lewd comments to passing women and trying to pickpocket me.

...


Of course its not, that's just the culture of a low subsect of youth. It would be pretty racist of me to extend that to all muslims.

As to the question, It is of course right that people maintain their own traditions, but I in no way support ghettoisation. When people spend much more time working to support their 'own' community rather than or at the expense of the wider community is a bit of a warning sign I think.

[Zafran]

Indeed. Anyway, living in North London I know that muslim culture consists entirely of smoking dope, hanging around in the street, making lewd comments to passing women and trying to pickpocket me.

...


Of course its not, that's just the culture of a low subsect of youth. It would be pretty racist of me to extend that to all muslims.

As to the question, It is of course right that people maintain their own traditions, but I in no way support ghettoisation. When people spend much more time working to support their 'own' community rather than or at the expense of the wider community is a bit of a warning sign I think.

Muslim culture???? I didnt think that existed...... I thought that was ghetto culture due to poverty and lack of education.