Kinds of Tawassul

[Re.TiReD]

:salamext:

Short, sweet and simple alhamdulillah

Kinds of Tawassul

I have been discussing the subject of using "waseela" while supplicating to Allah (swt) with some Muslims, and have come to know that there are quite different opinions about fact whether the use of "waseela" in duaa is halaal or haraam. Could you please provide me with some information about this subject, some ayaat from the Holy Qur'an or authentic ahaadeeth? With the term "use of waseela" I mean asking via the agency of someone, fx "I ask You (O Allah) to grant me forgiveness via the agency of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and his household)" or via the agency of other Prophets (Peace be upon them), saints or other pious Muslims.

Praise be to Allaah.

What is meant by tawassul and waseelah is four things:

the kind of tawassul without which faith cannot be complete, which is seeking to reach Allaah (tawassul) by believing in Him and His Messengers, and obeying Him and His Messenger, This is what is meant in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Do your duty to Allaah and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him…”
[al-Maa’idah 5:35]

This includes seeking to approach Allaah through His Names and Attributes, or by doing acts of obedience and worship by which one seeks to approach Allaah, and so on.

Seeking to approach Allaah by asking His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to make du’a’ for one during his lifetime, and the believers asking one another to make du’aa’ for one another. This follows on from the first type and is encouraged.

Seeking to approach Allaah by virtue of the status and virtues of some created being, such as saying, “O Allaah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet” and so on. This is allowed by some of the ‘ulama’, but this opinion is da’eef (weak). The correct view is that it is definitely haraam, because there can be no tawassul in du’aa’ except by virtue of the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

Tawassul as it is understood by many of the Muslims of later times, which is calling on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and seeking his help (or seeking the help of the dead and so-called awliya’). This is a form of major shirk, because calling on or seeking help from anyone other than Allaah with regard to something that that only Allaah is able to do is a kind of worship, and directing worship to anyone or anything other than Allaah is major shirk. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

[F0z14]

Asalaam Alkikum Sis, does this basically mean we are not allowed to say “O Allaah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet” and so on, i was told when can say this?

[Güven]

JazakAllahu Khair sis , SubhanAllah I was just Searching For This :)

:w:

[Re.TiReD]

:wasalamex

Seeking to approach Allaah by virtue of the status and virtues of some created being, such as saying, “O Allaah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet” and so on. This is allowed by some of the ‘ulama’, but this opinion is da’eef (weak). The correct view is that it is definitely haraam, because there can be no tawassul in du’aa’ except by virtue of the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

Read the underlined sis. There are differing opinions and views, this is the one I have been taught :)

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[Re.TiReD]

Wa Iyaak akhee.

Also: http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...er-allaah.html

[Kas1m]

But however according to one another hadith Allah sends all the Rizq onto Prophet Muhammed pbuh and from there the prophet pbuh divides it between the mankind. Im not sure about this but i have heard it. never read it. someone can clarify

[Re.TiReD]

But however according to one another hadith Allah sends all the Rizq onto Prophet Muhammed pbuh and from there the prophet pbuh divides it between the mankind. Im not sure about this but i have heard it. never read it. someone can clarify

The prophet (saw) does what? Sorry I've never heard that before...Can you please provide a source.

[Kas1m]

The prophet (saw) does what? Sorry I've never heard that before...Can you please provide a source.

I have only heard it too. Im looking for a proof too. thats why the Prophet is also called Qasim, the Divider

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

The following thread is of immense benefit on this very subject, Insha'Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...assul-etc.html

[chacha_jalebi]

the way i see it you can ask a a alive person to pray for you and you can say bla bla pray for me man

but then you cant ask a dead man to pray for you, and my evidence :D in sahih bukhari, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) asks Hadhrat Abbas (Ra) to do istisqa, and he says "before we asked from the Prophet" so after the Prophet (Saw) died, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) didnt ask from him, he asked from Hadhrat Abbas (ra) who was alive!

i know their are difference of opinions and some strong and weak narrations, but thats my opinion lol so come attack me:p grrrhhhh

[Re.TiReD]

the way i see it you can ask a a alive person to pray for you and you can say bla bla pray for me man

but then you cant ask a dead man to pray for you, and my evidence :D in sahih bukhari, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) asks Hadhrat Abbas (Ra) to do istisqa, and he says "before we asked from the Prophet" so after the Prophet (Saw) died, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) didnt ask from him, he asked from Hadhrat Abbas (ra) who was alive!

i know their are difference of opinions and some strong and weak narrations, but thats my opinion lol so come attack me:p grrrhhhh

*reps* :thumbs_up

Akhee I wouldnt argue with you because I agree, but I know how people would argue. They'd say:

Al-Maliki said about that hadeeth- Whoever understands from this that Umar only used al-Abbas as his means and not the messenger of Allah, because al-Abbas is alive and the messanger of Allah is dead- that persons understanding is dead

:skeleton:

[Kas1m]

the way i see it you can ask a a alive person to pray for you and you can say bla bla pray for me man

but then you cant ask a dead man to pray for you, and my evidence :D in sahih bukhari, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) asks Hadhrat Abbas (Ra) to do istisqa, and he says "before we asked from the Prophet" so after the Prophet (Saw) died, Hadhrat Umar (Ra) didnt ask from him, he asked from Hadhrat Abbas (ra) who was alive!

i know their are difference of opinions and some strong and weak narrations, but thats my opinion lol so come attack me:p grrrhhhh

Your right - I dont quite agree with you. what is istisqa by the way?

[chacha_jalebi]

well i would follow Hadhrat Umar (Ra) understandin over another scholars

and the Prophet (saw) did say follow my way and the righteious predecessors after me i.e Hadhrat Abu Bakr (Ra), Umar, Uthman, Ali (ra)

so thats moi opinion and followin, Allah hu Alam

[Re.TiReD]

Your right - I dont quite agree with you. what is istisqa by the way?

I think he means Istigatha, asking for help with matters that Allah alone can help with.

[chacha_jalebi]

^ istisqa the prayer for rain

[Z-Blade]

Your right - I dont quite agree with you. what is istisqa by the way?

:sl:,

Istisqa is the request for rain - i.e. Salatul Istisqa. :')

Wassalam.

[Z-Blade]

:sl:,

Hmmm, OK so the reason given is:

Seeking to approach Allaah by virtue of the status and virtues of some created being, such as saying, “O Allaah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet” and so on. This is allowed by some of the ‘ulama’, but this opinion is da’eef (weak). The correct view is that it is definitely haraam, because there can be no tawassul in du’aa’ except by virtue of the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

I see no Daleel there whatsoever. What about these ahadith?:

THE HADITH OF THE BLIND MAN

Tirmidhi relates, through his chain of narrators from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf, that a blind man came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and said, "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so please pray to Allah for me." The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said: "Go make ablution (wudu), perform two rak'as of prayer, and then say:

"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad,

the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me"]."
The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) added, "And if there is some need, do the same."

THE HADITH OF THE MAN IN NEED

Moreover, Tabarani, in his "al-Mu'jam al saghir," reports a hadith from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf that a man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter - this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar - so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: "Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak'as of prayer therein, and say:

'O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Prophet Muhammad,


the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,' and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman]." So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him), and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. 'Uthman asked, "What do you need?" and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him, then he said, "I hadn't remembered your need until just now," adding, "Whenever you need something, just mention it." Then, the man departed, met Uthman ibn Hunayf, and said to him, "May Allah reward you! He didn't see to my need or pay any attention to me until you spoke with him." Uthman ibn Hunayf replied, "By Allah, I didn't speak to him, but I have seen a blind man come to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and complain to him of the loss of his eyesight. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Can you not bear it?' and the man replied, 'O Messenger of Allah, I do not have anyone to lead me around, and it is a great hardship for me.' The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) told him, 'Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then pray two rak'as of prayer and make the supplications.'" Ibn Hunayf went on, "By Allah, we didn't part company or speak long before the man returned to us as if nothing had ever been wrong with him."

This is an explicit, unequivocal text from a prophetic Companion proving the legal validity of tawassul through the dead. The account has been classified as rigorously authenticated (SAHIH) by Baihaqi, Mundhiri, and Haythami."

And I've read more evidence on Tawassul of this form being allowed. Allahu A'lam, I believe it's permitted that's all, since there's too much evidence to say otherwise.

Wassalam.

[Re.TiReD]

^ istisqa the prayer for rain

Ooh I thought u meant: Istigatha which is Using Intermediaries And Intercessors :hiding: JazakAllah khayr

[------]

:salamext:

Seeking to approach Allaah by virtue of the status and virtues of some created being, such as saying, “O Allaah, I ask You by virtue of Your Prophet” and so on. This is allowed by some of the ‘ulama’, but this opinion is da’eef (weak). The correct view is that it is definitely haraam, because there can be no tawassul in du’aa’ except by virtue of the Names and Attributes of Allaah.

See, I believe in the opinion it is allowed. Khayr, each to their own risk. [and no i dont want to bombarded with a gazillion evidences that why it isnt allowed please]

[Z-Blade]

And this is in regard to the hadith that bro Chacha Jalebi posted:

The background to `Umar's prayer for rain shows that there was also an explicit tawassul through the Prophet, upon him peace, performed by the Sahabi Bilal ibn al-Harith as narrated in two versions:

(a) Version 1 From the Sahabi Malik al-Dar:

The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet sallAllahu `alayhi wa-Alihi wa-Sallam and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."

Ibn Kathir cites it thus from al-Bayhaqi's Dala'il al-Nubuwwa (7:47) in al-Bidaya wal-Nihaya (Ma`arif ed. 7:91-92=Dar Ihya' al-Turath ed. 7:105) saying: "isnaduhu sahih" and he also declares its chain sound (isnaduhu jayyidun qawi) in his Jami` al-Masanid (1:223) in Musnad `Umar. Ibn Abi Shayba cites it (6:352=12:31-32) with a sound (sahih) chain as confirmed by Ibn Hajar who says: "rawa Ibn Abi Shayba bi'isnadin sahih" and cites the hadith in Fath al-Bari, Book of Istisqa ch. 3 (1989 ed. 2:629-630=1959 ed. 2:495) as well as in al-Isaba (6:164 �8350=3:484) where he says that Ibn Abi Khaythama cited it. It is also thus narrated by al-Khalili in al-Irshad (1:313-314) and Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Isti`ab (2:464=3:1149).

Al-Albani attempted to weaken this report in his Tawassul (p.120) but was refuted in the lengthy analysis given by Mamduh in Raf` al-Minara (p. 262-278), which refutes other similar attempts cf. Ibn Baz's marginalia on Fath al-Bari, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri's tract Wa-Ja'u Yarkudun, Hammad al-Ansari's articles "al-Mafhum al-Sahih lil-Tawassul" also titled "Tuhfat al-Qari fil-Radd `ala al-Ghumari," and other such literature.

Ibn Hajar identifies the man who visited and saw the Prophet, upon him peace, in his dream as the Companion Bilal ibn al-Harith, counting this hadith among the reasons for al-Bukhari's naming of the chapter "The people's request to their leader for rain if they suffer drought" in his Sahih, book of Istisqa'.

And Allah knows best.

Wassalam.

[------]

:sl:,

Hmmm, OK so the reason given is:

.............

And I've read more evidence on Tawassul of this form being allowed. Allahu A'lam, I believe it's permitted that's all, since there's too much evidence to say otherwise.

Wassalam.

Exactly my thoughts bro. Jazaak Allaah Khayr!

[Re.TiReD]

This thread is soo gunna be closed and you know....everybody will come with their own daleel and I'll still be confused, and for everybody reading this....my MSN aint workin :D :-[

[chacha_jalebi]

*jumps up and down* about time in Li we had a serious discussion, woo hoo may we keep it up

the blind man asked the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) was alive which is okily

the second one, is news to my ears lol, ive heard it 1st time, but narrated by al baihaqi and haythami, compared to sahih bukhari, i would choose bukhari because of the more stronger narrations, this is one problem i have seen, like the narrations which confirm it, are from hadiths which are not in the sihah sutta, and then someone like sheikh al albani (rahimallah talaa) would have analysed the hadiths, and said its weak, and then if you say its weak you get called many a names :( like w_h_b_i:p or salafi and if you dont accept sheikh al albanis stuff, you will be called a sufi or brelvi, so its them topics which lead to a dispute innay, i dont think we will solve it, when scholars have been arguin on it for time

[Z-Blade]

This thread is soo gunna be closed and you know....everybody will come with their own daleel and I'll still be confused, and for everybody reading this....my MSN aint workin :D :-[

:sl:,

Just read my posts please in this thread, inshaAllah that'll help you understand ukhti :'). Can you deny the words of the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)? No, I cannot, and that is why I'd rather take what he (salallahu alaihi wasallam) said rather than what some scholar said without any daleel. You may not accept it at first... but then we don't always accept/understand things at first, like polygyny etc. maybe... but Allah knows best and we accept His rulings and commands.

Anyway as I said this is a minor issue and I don't really care about it, but let's not go calling things haram when Allah has allowed it...

Wassalam.

[Re.TiReD]

Is it tru that none of the companions supplicated to Allah using the prophets status as a means of tawwasul?

Ibn Taymiyah- they understud that a created being can only benefit another by means of his suplication or means of help while alive. Allah loves that we seek nearness to Him by means of believing, righteous actions, sending salaah n salaam upon His prophet, loving him, obeying him n allying ourselves wit him. these are the things Allah loves us to seek nearnessto Him by means of.

[------]

^ We've had plenty of discussion and fights over this topic, just use the search facility.

Bottom Line: Each to their own risk.

[Z-Blade]

*jumps up and down* about time in Li we had a serious discussion, woo hoo may we keep it up

the blind man asked the Prophet (saw) and the Prophet (saw) was alive which is okily

the second one, is news to my ears lol, ive heard it 1st time, but narrated by al baihaqi and haythami, compared to sahih bukhari, i would choose bukhari because of the more stronger narrations, this is one problem i have seen, like the narrations which confirm it, are from hadiths which are not in the sihah sutta, and then someone like sheikh al albani (rahimallah talaa) would have analysed the hadiths, and said its weak, and then if you say its weak you get called many a names :( like w_h_b_i:p or salafi and if you dont accept sheikh al albanis stuff, you will be called a sufi or brelvi, so its them topics which lead to a dispute innay, i dont think we will solve it, when scholars have been arguin on it for time

:sl:,

Yeah bro the problem is here:

This is an explicit, unequivocal text from a prophetic Companion proving the legal validity of tawassul through the dead. The account has been classified as rigorously authenticated (SAHIH) by Baihaqi, Mundhiri, and Haythami."

It has been authenticated by Classical scholars, I'd say Shaykh Albani (RA) got it wrong if he tries to call it weak when great scholars like them said they are authentic :p.

Wassalam.

[chacha_jalebi]

read al aqida as wastiyyah by sheikh ibn taymiyyah! it sorts out everythin:D

and one more quote, from ibn taymiyyah "askin a man who is dead, is like your drownin and your askin another drownin man for help"

strong! but true

thread can be closed now lol :p i wana be last poster pleeese:D

[chacha_jalebi]

:sl:,

Yeah bro the problem is here:

This is an explicit, unequivocal text from a prophetic Companion proving the legal validity of tawassul through the dead. The account has been classified as rigorously authenticated (SAHIH) by Baihaqi, Mundhiri, and Haythami."

It has been authenticated by Classical scholars, I'd say Shaykh Albani (RA) got it wrong if he tries to call it weak when great scholars like them said they are authentic :p.

Wassalam.

lol im not sayin any scholar got it wrong, Allah hu alim

thread should be closed now, no more postin:D