Protest at woman leading prayers

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Uthman

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Protesters have gathered outside a mosque in opposition to a woman leading a mixed congregation in Islamic prayer for the first time in the UK.

Professor Amina Wadud took the service - or khutbah - to mark the start of a conference on Islam and feminism at Wolfson College in Oxford.

The move has provoked opposition as it is traditional in Islam that imams, who are always men, hold mixed services.

One protester said she disagreed with it as it was "against Islam".

The sermon is being held at the the Muslim Educational Centre.

A local Muslim leader advised people not to picket the mosque as it would give the move more publicity.

But some said they felt so strongly against it that they had to protest.

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We're here to uphold the traditions and the values of Islam and uphold the ways of the prophet - peace be upon him
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Aishah Samah, protester

Aishah Samah, a protester from Oxford said: "We're here to uphold the traditions and the values of Islam and uphold the ways of the prophet - peace be upon him.

"We have no objections to women being heads of state, or organisation leaders.

"Women are highly respected in Islam but in Islamic law, women cannot lead prayer."

Maryanne Ramzy added: "What she is doing is against Islam. I disagree with it."

Mokhtar Badri, vice-president of the Muslim Association of Britain said: "It has nothing to do with position of women in society. It is not to degrade them or because we don't think they are up to it.

"This is something divine not human. We have to do it in the way it has been ordained by God to do it."

Women are forbidden under Islamic law to enter a mosque when they are menstruating as they are "unclean", which prevents them from being an Imam.

Organisers heralded the decision to allow the scholar to lead the service as a "leap forward" for "theological destiny".

Chairman of the Muslim Educational Centre Oxford (MECO) Dr Taj Hargey said: "We believe Islam is a gender-equal religion.

"There is a record that the Prophet Mohammed allowed a woman to lead a mixed-gender congregation, but this precedent has been ignored."

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What is the world coming to!!!,
It's another way of spreading fitnah around. How can she even lead prayers!!:-\
 
Progressionists make no sense to me. Their logic is, they want to bring equality. This can only mean they don't think Islam is perfect as it was introduced - I mean, why follow it if you don't accept it as it is? Moulding something and practicing it is so intellectually dishonest.
 
Professor Amina Wadud took the service - or khutbah - to mark the start of a conference on Islam and feminism at Wolfson College in Oxford.
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was she the same Amina Wadud that led a few years ago in Newyork? :?

this is gettin really weird though
 
Osman said:
"There is a record that the Prophet Mohammed allowed a woman to lead a mixed-gender congregation, but this precedent has been ignored."
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This is what I really want to know about. If this is a hadith, then I'm guessing that it's considered weak or fabricated by the majority of 'Ulema?
 
I want to know to. I can't remember where but I do remember hearing that a woman can lead prayer but she has to stand behind the men. Allahu alim.
 
Ok I know i'm gonna get alot of neg. reasponses but here goes...

If men and women are seperated in a majid, why not let a woman lead the women the same as the male does, sounds pretty closed minded, after all if not for your mother and father given a gift from God to beable to produce you, you would not exsist. Point being, they both had some part.

I love how a woman has so many obsticals, but a man has so much freedom.

I also love how men think they own women, they own no one except themselves and even then they don't truely have ownership over themselves, GOD does.

Surely it states NOWHERE that a man can run naked but a woman has to cover from head to toe. They both must be modestly dressed.

Men support there families, yet, women provide EVERYTHING for the families.

Success of children in there adult lives is only due to the women, after all where are the men for the first part of there children's lives? Understandably they need to work to support the family and the women mostly stay home to guard and educate them, however a man's duties are less than what a woman's duties are. hmmm man = work (support) V woman = (wife, mother, guardian, educator, feeder, caretaker, nurse, listener) hmmm, you men are right about something there is no equality between men and women....WOMEN SIMPLY DO MORE
 
:sl:

Sister, as far as I'm aware, women are allowed to lead all-women prayers but not mixed-gender ones.

:w:
 
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well of course not, mixed gendered ones, I may have mis understood then, is she promoting mixed gendered prayers? If so then i would also agree.

agree that she should not be allowed, except for women only
 
Some people have crazy idea for gender equality, it is like saying guy should get pregnant for gender equality.
 
:sl:
even though it would not cause fitnah if men and women were in separate partitions, pray tell, who is gonna takeover every month during her monthly break (or there will be 2 lady imams who will have periods at different times)?

edit: this lady "imam" wants mixed jamaat so my original point is lost^^

:w:
 
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ummsara1108 said:
Ok I know i'm gonna get alot of neg. reasponses but here goes...

Allah[swt] knows best!

If men and women are seperated in a majid, why not let a woman lead the women the same as the male does, sounds pretty closed minded, after all if not for your mother and father given a gift from God to beable to produce you, you would not exsist. Point being, they both had some part.

you only need one person to lead prayers. to change THAT would be innovation!


I love how a woman has so many obsticals, but a man has so much freedom.

going off are we?

I also love how men think they own women, they own no one except themselves and even then they don't truely have ownership over themselves, GOD does.

the men may be misguided, but Islam doesn't misguide!


Surely it states NOWHERE that a man can run naked but a woman has to cover from head to toe. They both must be modestly dressed.

there's a Sunnah for both! [that MOST men don't follow]

Men support there families, yet, women provide EVERYTHING for the families.

which is EXACTLY why women don't have to go to the Masjid for Salat or even Jummu'ah!

Success of children in there adult lives is only due to the women, after all where are the men for the first part of there children's lives?

there's a great Hadeeth on this that you should try to find!

Understandably they need to work to support the family and the women mostly stay home to guard and educate them, however a man's duties are less than what a woman's duties are. hmmm man = work (support) V woman = (wife, mother, guardian, educator, feeder, caretaker, nurse, listener) hmmm, you men are right about something there is no equality between men and women....WOMEN SIMPLY DO MORE

to quote one of my favorite speakers, Mufti Ismail Menk, "women CAN be "wife, mother, guardian, educator, feeder, caretaker, nurse, listener" because they were created from a living human being and thus have greater mercy and heart than men do! men were created after all, from...dirt...
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:sl:

man or woman, we simply aren't allowed to change the religion according to our whims!

don't let the men make you disillusioned! you can discover the joys of Islam DESPITE us!

:w:
 
:sl:

I don't want to go into sectarian discussions, but all Sunni madhabs except the Hanbalis allow women to lead the jamaat, under the following conditions:

If there's no man who has a better knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

The female Imam should stand behind the men.

In China, the Hui Muslims have masjids called a Nüsi. These are women-only masjids.

In Hyderabad, over here, I have yet to come across a single mosque which allows women to pray all year round. The mosque I go to allows women to go to the top floor only during Ramadhan for Tarawih.
 
Unless it is a total woman mosque.
 
Isn't there great love for Mohammad's wife for the things she had done? (PBUTB)

Was she (PBUH) not some kind of scholor, or in a high status amungst the women of her time?

If so then why was she? Mohammad (PBUH) surely knew better, wasn't his words more than her's? (PBUH) Don't remember hearing anything about her (PBUH) standing behind him?

Are there not more male imam's that can replace another male imam if he bocomes sick or unable to fullfil his duties? Yes of course! Same would apply to a menstrating female imam, surely she would not be the only female imam.

I mean no offense, and appologize for (going off a bit) in my first post. And sorry I do not remember her name off hand.

I'm by no means am an equalist, but do believe in fairness, men have there place and women also have there place, however when it comes to religion we all have a place and a duty.
 
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exactly why allow her in the first place than rather not allow her at all
 
however for a female to imply we should equally join together men and women in mosques and preach together in mosques, i'm affraid I disagree. But seperately, sure why not.
 
originally it was that women didn't pray behind walls or different floors, rather they would form lines behind men. for not following this, and erecting walls, and I don't mean just physical ones, we have this 'backlash'.
 
alcurad said:
originally it was that women didn't pray behind walls or different floors, rather they would form lines behind men. for not following this, and erecting walls, and I don't mean just physical ones, we have this 'backlash'.
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I personally agree with you. I will even go so far as to say that I see it is wrong for the men to basically not allow women to pray in the masjid and if they are allowed into the masjid they are made to go to an upper room or behind a physical barrier. I personally see this as an innovation that is harmful to the ummah. People in the West see this and the niqab examples of oppression against women and the liberals are encouraging an ultra-feminist approach as a backlash against Islam.
 
MustafaMc said:
I personally agree with you. I will even go so far as to say that I see it is wrong for the men to basically not allow women to pray in the masjid and if they are allowed into the masjid they are made to go to an upper room or behind a physical barrier. I personally see this as an innovation that is harmful to the ummah. People in the West see this and the niqab examples of oppression against women and the liberals are encouraging an ultra-feminist approach as a backlash against Islam.
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You are right brother, they have the permission, however, note

Because of what `Amra the daughter of `Abd al-Rahman said: I heard `A'isha (the Prophet's wife) say: "If Allah's Messenger had seen what new things the women have introduced (in their way of life) he would have definitely prevented them from going to the mosque, as the women of Bani Isra'il were prevented afore." (Muslim #895, Abu Dawud #569);

Because of Ibn `Umar's caution, despite his insistence on their Allah-given permission, in that he reported that the Prophet said: "Do not prevent your women from visiting the mosques; but their houses are better for them (for praying)." (Abu Dawud #567).

Because of Ibn `Umar and (more likely) `Umar's narration that the Prophet (s) indicated a certain door of his (?) mosque with the words: "Leave this door for women." Nafi` [the sub-narrator] said: "Ibn `Umar did not enter this door until his death. (Abu Dawud #462) Nafi` said: "`Umar ibn al-Khattab used to prohibit men to enter through the door reserved for women. (Abu Dawud #464).

Because of the Prophet's explicit saying reported by Abu Hurayra: Allah's Messenger said: "The best rows for men are the first rows and the worst, the last rows; and the best rows for women are the last rows and the worst, the first." (Muslim #881) Imam Nawawi said in his commentary on Muslim ("Sharh sahih Muslim" ed. Shaykh Khalil al-Mays, Beirut: Dar al-Qalam, 3rd ed. 4:404 book of Salat ch. 28 #132): "The part of the statement concerning men is understood in absolute terms; the part of the statement concerning women, in relative terms, i.e. if they pray in mixed congregation. However, if they pray alone, then the same applies to them as for the men: the best rows are the first, and the worst rows, the last. What is meant by "worst rows," both for men and for women, is that there is the least reward and merit in them and that they are the farthest from the criteria of the law, and vice-versa concerning "the best." The only merit of the last rows for women in a mixed congregation is that these rows are the farthest removed from mixture with men, from their sight by women, and from the heart's fondness upon seeing their motions and hearing their voices and so forth, and vice-versa concerning the blameworthiness of their first rows. And Allah knows best."

Because of Sahl ibn Sa`d's report: "I saw men having tied the ends of their lower garments around their necks, like children, due to shortage of cloth [because of poverty] and offering their prayers behind Allah's Messenger, Peace be upon him. One of the proclaimers said: O womenfolk, do not lift your heads [from prostration] until men raise theirs [and readjust their garments]." (Muslim #883). This shows that the women prayed behind the men, else there would have been no sense in specifically prohibiting them from raising their heads first.
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So, it probably has authentic basis (in terms of beneficial) and we should not call it innovation in a haste.
 
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