What’s the difference?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
What is the difference between a hadith being da3eef (weak) and its isnad (chain)

Note that the shaykh has not declared the hadeeth to be da`eef but rather the isnaad….

And

So where is the contradiction for saying that the isnaad is weak is different from saying that the hadeeth is weak!

How so:?
I thought that if the Isnaad of a hadith was sa7ee7/da3eef (authentic/weak), then so is the hadith. In fact I didn’t ever think that the isnad of a hadith and the hadith itself could have two different gradings.

So, what does this mean:?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

i found it!

The saying of a scholar, "its isnaad is weak" is not a contradiction of his saying elsewhere, "the hadeeth is hasan" or "the hadeeth is saheeh", since the isnaad may be weak, but the hadeeth itself is saheeh or hasan due to further supporting chains, or other narrations supporting it or attesting to its authenticity.

Imaam as-Suyootee says in 'al-La`aali al-Masnoo`ah' (1/114), "know that the practice of the scholars of hadeeth such as al-Haakim, ibn Hibbaan, al-Uqailee and others was that they would judge a particular hadeeth to be baseless with respect to a particular chain, due to the fact that it's narrator had falsely attached that chain to a certain text, whereas the text itself is well known from other chains...."

Imaam Abu Amr ibn as-Salaah says in , 'Uloom al-Hadeeth' (pp92-93), "if you find a hadeeth with a weak isnaad, then you may say, 'this is weak', meaning that is weak with this isnaad but you may not say, 'this is weak', meaning its text is weak based merely upon the weakness of that chain, since it may be reported by another authentic chain by which the hadeeth is established...."

Source

[Olive]

Yeah, so in otherwords:

You can have a Hasan hadith but with weak Isnad or vise versa?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
^yes, thats correct...

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[Zamtsa]

Because the matan (content) is Shahih. And that's the principle that when Dha'if Sanad of a hadits with a certain matan, become Hasan lighairihi or Hasan, if the different narrators proven as never meet or never make an agreement to make a false Hadits, and when the different narrators proven as not one of the liars.
For instance a sanad of from D from C from B from Shahaba, Rasulullah qaala "..." then there is another sanad of Hadits which got the same content, then it's like from J from I from H from Shahaba, Rasulullah qaala "..."
That the 1st sanad is Dha'if, while the 2nd Sanad also Dha'if, then the above principle are found in this Hadits, then this Hadits because of the same content could be lifted to Hasan lighairihi. But if the Hadits is Dha'if Jiddan, then it couldn't be lifted to Hasan.


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh.