Augustine

[AhlaamBella]

Something occured to me in R.S class today. . .

Augustine contributes to the Christian response to evil and suffering, right? He states that evil and suffering exists because of the original sin (i.e. Adam and Eve, forbidden fruits etc).

But then again, didn't Jesus die for the sins of mankind? So, shouldn't all evil and suffering have died with him?

Any responses will be welcome :)

[Keltoi]

Something occured to me in R.S class today. . .

Augustine contributes to the Christian response to evil and suffering, right? He states that evil and suffering exists because of the original sin (i.e. Adam and Eve, forbidden fruits etc).

But then again, didn't Jesus die for the sins of mankind? So, shouldn't all evil and suffering have died with him?

Any responses will be welcome :)

No, that was not Christ's purpose. There was no way for mankind to achieve salvation as a result of their sinful nature, meaning original sin. Through Christ, we can overcome that sinful nature through a state of grace. Evil is still there, and it is still necessary for us to face it and overcome it. Christ did not destroy evil, He gave us a path to salvation that we could not achieve alone.

[mkh4JC]

Something occured to me in R.S class today. . .

Augustine contributes to the Christian response to evil and suffering, right? He states that evil and suffering exists because of the original sin (i.e. Adam and Eve, forbidden fruits etc).

But then again, didn't Jesus die for the sins of mankind? So, shouldn't all evil and suffering have died with him?

Any responses will be welcome :)

The Bible actually says in Pslams 34: 19 that 'Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers them out of them all.' So just because you belong to Christ that doesn't mean that you are exempt from suffering or experiencing hardship, in fact by becoming Christian your life may get even more complicated (mine sure did).

So all suffering did not die with Christ. What you have to understand though is, to benefit from what Christ did on the cross you have to first accept him. And the most immediate benefit from accepting him is freedom from a life of sin.

[AntiKarateKid]

So how come it doesnt seem like Christians who have done all the rituals are any less sinful than the good Jew or Muslim?

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[mkh4JC]

So how come it doesnt seem like Christians who have done all the rituals are any less sinful than the good Jew or Muslim?

Well, that's because most people only say they are or think they are Christian when in actuality they don't have an ounce of Jesus. Here's what Jesus said:

'Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.' Matthew 7: 21-23.

Jesus won't say, I knew you but you backslid, he will tell them that he never knew them period. And these are people who are going around supposedly casting out devils. It all comes back to whether or not you are living a life that is pleasing in the sight of the Lord, a life that he enabled you to live because you came to him.

[AhlaamBella]

The Bible actually says in Pslams 34: 19 that 'Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers them out of them all.' So just because you belong to Christ that doesn't mean that you are exempt from suffering or experiencing hardship, in fact by becoming Christian your life may get even more complicated (mine sure did).

So all suffering did not die with Christ. What you have to understand though is, to benefit from what Christ did on the cross you have to first accept him. And the most immediate benefit from accepting him is freedom from a life of sin.

Aren't those two points slightly contradictory? First of all you say just because you're with christ doesn't mean you are exempt from suffering, then again you say you can only benefit from his sacrafice by accepting him :?

[mkh4JC]

Aren't those two points slightly contradictory? First of all you say just because you're with christ doesn't mean you are exempt from suffering, then again you say you can only benefit from his sacrafice by accepting him :?

I don't see them as being contradictory. Christ did not come into the world to at first end all suffering (although this will happen). This won't be a reality until the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ, where God himself will establish his soverign government over all those who are his. But what he did come to do, and what happens when you accept him, is that you can begin to live your life free from sin, you can live free from those things that previously had you bound.

Now, that doesn't mean that God can't allow things to come into your life after you accept him to mold you into the person that he ultimately wants you to be, because he can and often does. And in fact, one of the fruits of the spirit and proofs of being a Christian is long suffering. So no, I don't see it as being contradictory.

As an example, if you are a Christian and contract , say, a terminal illness, then you have a blood bought right to believe God for your healing. But that still doesn't mean you won't go through some things beforehand or that you'd get instantly healed.

[AhlaamBella]

Riiiiiiiiight. I get mixed messages from christians. But that's for a total other discussion. I'm glad Islam as one solid answer for any question I have :)

[mkh4JC]

Riiiiiiiiight. I get mixed messages from christians. But that's for a total other discussion. I'm glad Islam as one solid answer for any question I have :)

Well, I said nothing that cannot be backed up with scripture. In an earlier post I quoted Pslams 34 19, where it stated that 'Many are the afflictions of the righteous.' And there are many scriptures in the New Testament which back up the position that Jesus saves sinners from their sins. And if you read the end of Revelation you will see that after the thousand year reign of Christ that God makes a new heaven and a new Earth, where things like suffering, disease, dying, going hungry, are all things of the past.

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

I thought I'd throw this in the mixer.

If Jesus came to remove sins just as Adam introduced them, then why are those who have recieved Jesus' gift still affected by Adam's deeds?

Regards,
Br.al-Habeshi.

Disclaimer: A Post on Adam - A Post on Jesus

[mkh4JC]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

I thought I'd throw this in the mixer.

If Jesus came to remove sins just as Adam introduced them, then why are those who have recieved Jesus' gift still affected by Adam's deeds?

Regards,
Br.al-Habeshi.

Disclaimer: A Post on Adam - A Post on Jesus

Because when you accept Christ he comes to live within you, he saves you through your spirit. Man has spirit, soul, and body. Your body has yet to be redeemed, and that won't happen until after the rapture of the church. Therefore you are still susceptible to things like disease and suffering. You live a spiritual life, in a very natural world.

[AhlaamBella]

So, basically, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and Jesus is trying to clean up the mess? :hmm:

[Keltoi]

So, basically, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and Jesus is trying to clean up the mess? :hmm:

I would say sin in the world was a planned inevitability. It is through free will that we choose light over darkness, or God over sin. What Christ "cleaned up" was a path to salvation that could not be achieved ourselves. A way to bring us back into a relationship with God that was first enjoyed by Adam and Eve.

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

Because when you accept Christ he comes to live within you, he saves you through your spirit. Man has spirit, soul, and body. Your body has yet to be redeemed, and that won't happen until after the rapture of the church. Therefore you are still susceptible to things like disease and suffering. You live a spiritual life, in a very natural world.

This body you speak of, did Adam who was the first Christ have the same body as us or was his body exchanged into one like ours when he sinned?

Regards,

br.E.Abdulla

[mkh4JC]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,




This body you speak of, did Adam who was the first Christ have the same body as us or was his body exchanged into one like ours when he sinned?

Regards,

br.E.Abdulla

Well, after Adam sinned then he opened himself up to experience all the things that we experience today. Disease, suffering, depression, anxiety, sadness, fear, just anything and everything that adversely effects us as human beings. Before sinning, Adam and Eve had no concept of these things.

[AhlaamBella]

I would say sin in the world was a planned inevitability. It is through free will that we choose light over darkness, or God over sin. What Christ "cleaned up" was a path to salvation that could not be achieved ourselves. A way to bring us back into a relationship with God that was first enjoyed by Adam and Eve.

I agree completely. I couldn't have said it better myself. Except, I don't believe God would have had to go through such a human-like experience as death in order to create this path of salvation. Surely preaching and guiding would have been a more reasonable method of salvation. Persoanlly, I feel people wopuld find it very difficult to believe in a God who can be tortured and killed. Even if it was out of mercy for his creation.

[Grace Seeker]

So how come it doesnt seem like Christians who have done all the rituals are any less sinful than the good Jew or Muslim?

Because being a Christian doesn't make me better than you are anyone else, it only makes me better than what I once was.