Eating pork

[Thinker]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Several reasons:
1) According to cannibals, pork tastes like human beings (that's what I was told anyway!)
2) Impracticalities in killing the animal; for an animal to be fit for consumption, all the blood has to be drained - Islamically speaking that is. With a pig, you cannot drain all the blood since it has no neck. The only way to drain all of the animal's blood is to desecrate the corpse - something that is not allowed in Islam. The whole purpose of halal meat is to inflict the least amount of pain (so it doesn't suffer) AND that it's blood is all fully drained. Cutting the neck is the only way to do it.

Yeah it's a nasty job but if you're THAT self-righteous about the whole thing then the mere concept of killing animals for food would put you into a coma!

[crayon]

:sl:
Several reasons:
1) According to cannibals, pork tastes like human beings (that's what I was told anyway!)

How interesting... do you personally know any cannibals?
(not doubting what you're saying btw, just curious)

[islamirama]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

I think you should go do some research on pork and medical pro/cons. Pig is basically mother nature's garbage disposal. It'll eat anything, including feces, blood, etc. It has no skin pours so nothing is excreted out making it a very poisonous and unhealthy animal. It is full of tape worms. And no matter how many showers you take, you still smell awful. There's plenty of info out there, so why not go do some research and discover for yourself the benefit of not eating pork, as for us. We already have been told by the most knowledgeable, the Creator Himself not to eat it.

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[Tony]

as for us. We already have been told by the most knowledgeable, the Creator Himself not to eat it.[/QUOTE]

Subhan Allah:rock:

[aamirsaab]

How interesting... do you personally know any cannibals?
(not doubting what you're saying btw, just curious)

I was told this information by someone. Whether or not it is true, I don't know for sure. I just gave my 2 cents on the matter :)

[K.Venugopal]

Cannibalism - uncivilized. Non Vegetarian - semi-civilized. Vegetarian - fully civilized. Fruits and nuts – enlightened!

[Muslim Knight]

Cannibalism - uncivilized. Non Vegetarian - semi-civilized. Vegetarian - fully civilized. Fruits and nuts – enlightened!

Under what authority do you say this? Even the West recognize Islamic civilization.

Are you likening us Muslims to prehistoric cave tribesmen, because that's easily taken offense into.

[crayon]

Cannibalism - uncivilized. Non Vegetarian - semi-civilized. Vegetarian - fully civilized. Fruits and nuts – enlightened!

Nothing- Tombstone... lol.

[Thinker]

Wow – some harsh words said about pigs!

I’m sure that pigs would prefer to eat ‘Michelin’ quality food but what can they do when their fed crap. OK, so they like to role in mud but so do elephants, buffalos and lots of other animals. And yes they are susceptible to worms and the like but then cows get mad cow disease and chickens get that deadly mutant flu.

I am not an advocate for eating more pork but recently returned from a Muslim country I was surprised at just how many ways pork was in my diet. I was suddenly deprived of bacon, pork sausages and ham sandwiches not to mention pork chops etc., and it highlighted just how versatile pork is.

All that aside, what I was trying to get to was the origins of the ban on eating pork. Clearly it pre-dates Islam and there seems to be a common root in that Jews apply the same ban and of course Jews and the original Muslims came from the same roots. I wondered if it was something from a cultural past that had found its way into religious doctrine?

[K.Venugopal]

Under what authority do you say this? Even the West recognize Islamic civilization.

Are you likening us Muslims to prehistoric cave tribesmen, because that's easily taken offense into.

80% of Hindus are non-vegetarian. And I am sure there must be Muslims who are fully vegetarian. Particularly as Islam has not prohibited Muslims from becoming vegetarians or even "fruitarians". My gradation from Cannibalism to Fruitarianism on the scale of civilization is my own (why do I need any authority to say anything I want to say, more so when I feel there is logic in what I say?) but I am sure many Hindus and others would concur.

Incidentally, "prehistoric cave tribesmen" are not contemptible folks. They are our forefathers.

[Whatsthepoint]

Under what authority do you say this? Even the West recognize Islamic civilization.

Are you likening us Muslims to prehistoric cave tribesmen, because that's easily taken offense into.

What does this have to do with Venugopa's post?

[Afraa]

From my knowledge, the reason why we Muslims don't eat pork is because it's a filthy animal. It eats anything and everything. When it is cooked, not all the germs die so thats why it's forbidden. Maybe this could be of help to you because after i finished watching it, i said Alhamdulilah i don't eat pork.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/pag...d=1.1.1&sflg=1
enjoy

[islamirama]

Cannibalism - uncivilized. Non Vegetarian - semi-civilized. Vegetarian - fully civilized. Fruits and nuts – enlightened!

Vegetarians = domestic, uncivilized, simple minded dumb animals worth eating.

I suggest you take your judgment of others else where hindu.

Wow – some harsh words said about pigs!

I’m sure that pigs would prefer to eat ‘Michelin’ quality food but what can they do when their fed crap. OK, so they like to role in mud but so do elephants, buffalos and lots of other animals. And yes they are susceptible to worms and the like but then cows get mad cow disease and chickens get that deadly mutant flu.

I am not an advocate for eating more pork but recently returned from a Muslim country I was surprised at just how many ways pork was in my diet. I was suddenly deprived of bacon, pork sausages and ham sandwiches not to mention pork chops etc., and it highlighted just how versatile pork is.

All that aside, what I was trying to get to was the origins of the ban on eating pork. Clearly it pre-dates Islam and there seems to be a common root in that Jews apply the same ban and of course Jews and the original Muslims came from the same roots. I wondered if it was something from a cultural past that had found its way into religious doctrine?

Nothing against the pigs, they are animals and Islam demands all animals be treated with kindness and humanely.

Don't go comparing pigs to elephants and buffalos and what not, like i said before. Do some research on pigs and medical pro/cons of eating pork.

Cows got med cow disease only the west, and that is because the westerners feed the cows whatever junk they have left over from slaughter of there animals. Animals get fed pure mother nature food in the east and in the west they get cannibal food from who knows how many animals in addition to chemicals, hormones and genetically engineered crap.

If you were trying to get the origins of ban on eatin pork, an answer has already been given to you. A little less talking and more reading would do good for you. Not eating pork does predate islam because it was forbidden to the christians, the jews, and the people of previous Prophets. Why? because the root behind all of them is the same God, and what the Creator has commanded, we obey. It's simple as that. There is no cultural stuff that was introduced into the religion doctrine.

[Chuck]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

I'll make this short, in Islam carnivore and omnivore are prohibited.

As far as eating pork is concerned, I would not eat pork even if it was not prohibited. Reason's are as follows:
1. It has cell receptors for both birds and humans, so it can easily pass virus from wild that can harm humans (for ref. read: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-20296848_ITM).

2. The pork tapeworm is one of the most common disease-causing brain parasites. This parasite infects over 50 million people worldwide, and is the leading cause of brain seizures. (ref: http://eands.caltech.edu/articles/LXVI4/brainworms.html )

3. Here is a scientific study that finds morality correlations between fat, beef, and pork in several countries and mortality rates.

An investigation of the relationship between per-caput consumption of total fat, beef, and pork in several countries and mortality rates for cirrhosis showed a correlation between alcohol consumption and cirrhosis mortality of 0.64 (p less than 0.01), and a correlation between pork consumption and cirrhosis mortality of 0.40 (p less than 0.05). The correlation between cirrhosis mortality and the product of both alcohol and pork consumption was highly significant (r = 0.98, p less than 0.001). In countries with low alcohol consumption, no correlation was obtained between alcohol consumption and cirrhosis. However, a significant correlation was obtained between cirrhosis and pork. A similar relationship was seen in the ten Canadian provinces, where there was no correlation between cirrhosis mortality and alcohol consumption, but a significant correlation was obtained with pork.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus

From muslims maybe it sound harsh to you, but here comments are coming from non-muslims:

Pigs are generally possessed of a parasite called Trichinosis that will kill you. Beef is not terribly healthy, but it tends not to have deadly parasites.

....

Unfortunately raw pork contains a TON of parasites. If you don't cook it thoroughly, you'll ingest a parasite and get really really sick. Pigs are very unclean animals. They wallow in mud, dirt and their own crap. Cows however do not, and they do not have the parasites that pigs do. So make sure to cook your food all the way through.

....

Pork can carry trichinosis, which is a parasite--as in, a roundworm. Cooking the pork thoroughly kills off any of the worms in any stage of development. These roundworms penetrate all layers of the muscle, so that's why you have to cook pork all the way through. Cooking just the surface won't kill the worms inside the muscle. Beef doesn't carry this parasite, so it's generally safer to eat it uncooked. However, both meats can carry harmful bacteria--that's why it's not a good idea to eat raw *ground* beef, unless you have just ground it fresh yourself. Cooking a steak, for example, just on the outside, with the inside remaining (for all intents and purposes) raw is fine, since that part hasn't been exposed to air and therefore doesn't have the harmful bacteria.

And yes they are susceptible to worms and the like but then cows get mad cow disease and chickens get that deadly mutant flu.

mad cow disease is detectable easily and nobody eats it, so far there have been around 55 reported cases of a human getting infected. On the other hand, pork infects 50 million people each year with brain infecting parasite as it is far difficult to detect. It is comparing oranges with apples. Same goes with poultry, bird flu is easily detectable.

Another thing regarding poultry vs pork:

New studies on food safety have found pork may contain even more dangerous germs than poultry.

.... Scientists say patients who have antibiotic-resistant enterococcal infections have a death rate of 37 per cent.

.... Dutch researchers found the Enterococci bacteria in pigs cause more trouble for humans than the same type of bacteria found in poultry.

.... Resistant strains can be passed on to humans when they consume the meat of the animal. Researchers found these bacteria in pork seemed to survive and thrive longer in humans than those found in poultry.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/12...rk_011228.html

[Hamayun]

Erm... regardless of the logic the fact remains that Pigs are disgusting and I wouldn't eat one even if it was allowed. Same reason I don't eat frogs.

[Wilma_Hum]

Erm... regardless of the logic the fact remains that Pigs are disgusting and I wouldn't eat one even if it was allowed. Same reason I don't eat frogs.

If you have never eaten frog legs, you have missed a treat.

[Leyla73]

From my knowledge, the reason why we Muslims don't eat pork is because it's a filthy animal. It eats anything and everything. When it is cooked, not all the germs die so thats why it's forbidden. Maybe this could be of help to you because after i finished watching it, i said Alhamdulilah i don't eat pork.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/pag...d=1.1.1&sflg=1
enjoy

Wow... I've never hear of that disease... A worm in your brain! How grose! And all that just because you ate a pig...
Thanks for the video though! :)
And also, to answer to the question why Muslims and Jews aren't allowed to eat pork, well it's because all religions were the same in the beginning, just some religions changed what was written, so Allah send new and new ones... And Islam is the last one :)
Hope you understood what i meant :bump1:

[Thinker]

If you were trying to get the origins of ban on eatin pork, an answer has already been given to you. A little less talking and more reading would do good for you. Not eating pork does predate islam because it was forbidden to the christians, the jews, and the people of previous Prophets. Why? because the root behind all of them is the same God, and what the Creator has commanded, we obey. It's simple as that. There is no cultural stuff that was introduced into the religion doctrine.

Wow - once again I am amazed at how the simplest of questions can cause irritation !!

[Whatsthepoint]

I'm not a fan of pork, I don't like bacon, pork chops, or pork stakes, however certain pork products, such as prosciutto, are the tastiest treats I ever encountered as a member of the meat eating public.

as for pork being dangerous, I've never heard of anyone getting a tape worm or any other parasite, nor any other disease for that matter, from properly cooked pork they bought in a store.

[islamirama]

Wow - once again I am amazed at how the simplest of questions can cause irritation !!

You call it irritation, I call it annoyance, especially considering your name "thinker" and yet lacking simple capabilities to comprehend an answer given to you already.

[Muezzin]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

I'm not giving an Islamic perspective, but the fact that cannibals say that human flesh tastes a lot like pork would kind of put me off it even if my faith allowed it.

Wow – some harsh words said about pigs!

I’m sure that pigs would prefer to eat ‘Michelin’ quality food but what can they do when their fed crap. OK, so they like to role in mud but so do elephants, buffalos and lots of other animals.

And would you like to eat elephants, buffalos and lots of other animals?

There's also the fact that in Islam (I don't know about other religions' rulings on this) the eating of carnivorous or omnivourous animals is prohibited.

And pigs' eating habits are kind of in the realms of... God's vaccuum cleaners, so...

And yes they are susceptible to worms and the like but then cows get mad cow disease and chickens get that deadly mutant flu.

If just one farmer doesn't treat them correctly, yes, and the virus can spread very easily. Cows and chickens don't roll around in and eat their own excretement though.

I am not an advocate for eating more pork but recently returned from a Muslim country I was surprised at just how many ways pork was in my diet. I was suddenly deprived of bacon, pork sausages and ham sandwiches not to mention pork chops etc., and it highlighted just how versatile pork is.

Ever since I read articles about more than one cannibal saying just what human tastes like, I don't think I'll ever be swayed by pork's versatility.

All that aside, what I was trying to get to was the origins of the ban on eating pork. Clearly it pre-dates Islam and there seems to be a common root in that Jews apply the same ban and of course Jews and the original Muslims came from the same roots. I wondered if it was something from a cultural past that had found its way into religious doctrine?

Apparently in Middle Eastern climes pork doesn't keep for as long as other meats - i.e. it becomes rotten/inedible sooner than other meats.

It does not necessarily follow that this is the reason certain religions banned it. If that were the case, surely religions would simply implore their followers to prepare it faster (and not let it fester) rather than ban it outright.

[Hamayun]

Why do we have to justify anything to Thinker???? :?

Allah SWT said don't eat pork so we won't eat it. Who cares if it is hygenic or not?

This is how it is... whether someone likes it or not.

Peace

[Chuck]

Why do we have to justify anything to Thinker???? :?

Allah SWT said don't eat pork so we won't eat it. Who cares if it is hygenic or not?

This is how it is... whether someone likes it or not.

Peace

:thumbs_up

[جوري]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

Tinea Solium and cysticercosis as well the often fatal neurocysticercosis -- is very much alive and with us today..
Pigs are a prohibition on ALL Abrahamic faiths, including Christianity, if you'll recall it wasn't Jesus who abrogated that prohibition rather Saul/Paul
so it is really a no wonder that it is a prohibition on Muslims as well, since we believe the same God that brought down the Psalms of David and the scrolls of Abraham is the same one who brought the Quran..

Also as a general rule there need NOT be any scientific reason for a prohibition-- if it is brilliant in part and you have come to accept it, then by same token you'll accept the whole, even if it doesn't make much sense to you...

I wouldn't eat a giraffe or a rhino anymore than I'd eat a pig-- if you were stranded on a pig only Island with no other source of food, then necessity overrides prohibition but I doubt very much that will happen...

peace

Epidemiology and transmission of cysticercosis

Author
A Clinton White, Jr, MD, FACP, FIDSA Section Editor
Peter F Weller, MD, FACP Deputy Editor
Elinor L Baron, MD, DTMH



Last literature review version 16.3: September 2008*|*This topic last updated: August 29, 2008*(More)


INTRODUCTION*—*Cysticercosis is caused by the larval stage of the tapeworm Taenia solium; clinical syndromes include neurocysticercosis (NCC) and extraneural cysticercosis. In endemic areas NCC is an important cause of adult-onset seizures [1-4] .

The epidemiology and transmission of cysticercosis will be reviewed here. The clinical manifestations, diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of cysticercosis and the life cycle of T. solium are discussed separately. (See "Clinical manifestations and diagnosis of cysticercosis" and see "Treatment and prevention of cysticercosis" and see "Intestinal tapeworms").

EPIDEMIOLOGY*—*Approximately 50 million people worldwide are estimated to have cysticercosis infection, although estimates are probably low since many infections are subclinical and there are relatively few population based data on prevalence [5,6] . Cysticercosis is endemic in many regions of Central and South America, sub-Saharan Africa, India, and Asia [1-4,7] . The prevalence of cysticercosis varies within these countries and is often higher in rural or periurban areas where pigs are raised and sanitary conditions are suboptimal [1-4,7] . In some such communities the rate of epilepsy approaches 3 percent, and 25 to 40 percent of these cases have evidence of cysticercosis [2-4] .

Individuals with cysticercosis also present for medical attention outside of endemic areas, particularly where there are significant numbers of immigrants [8-10] . In a prospective study of 1800 patients presenting with seizures to 11 US emergency departments over a two-year period, neurocysticercosis was the etiologic agent in about 2 percent of cases [9] . Neurocysticercosis was observed more frequently in emergency departments of Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque (5.7 percent), which had a higher proportion of immigrant Hispanic patients than the other hospitals. Travelers to endemic areas represent another source of cysticercosis, although such infection accounts for a minority of cases in the United States [9,11] .

Individuals with no history of pork consumption or travel to endemic areas can also develop NCC. In a report of four cases in an Orthodox Jewish community (whose dietary laws strictly prohibit consumption of pork), for example, infection was transmitted by domestic workers who had recently emigrated from Latin American countries where T. solium is endemic [12] . Epidemiologic studies have demonstrated tight clustering in households; household contacts of patients with neurocysticercosis have a three-fold higher risk of positive serology for cysticercosis in comparison with controls [13] .

LIFE CYCLE AND TRANSMISSION*—*Cysticercosis is transmitted by ingestion of T. solium eggs shed in the stool of a human tapeworm carrier (show figure 1). Following ingestion, embryos (oncospheres) hatch in the small intestine, invade the bowel wall and disseminate hematogenously to brain, striated muscles, liver, and/or other tissues. Over a period of three to eight weeks, tissue cysticerci develop; these consist of membranous walls filled with fluid and protoscolices (composed of rudimentary bodies and heads with suckers and hooks). Localization of cysts to the brain results in neurocysticercosis; humans with cysticercosis are incidental dead end hosts.

Humans become T. solium tapeworm carriers by ingesting undercooked pork containing cysticerci in muscle tissue. Once ingested, the protoscolices are released from the cysts and attach to the human small intestine by their suckers and hooks. Subsequently, maturation into an adult tapeworm occurs over a period of two to four months. Adult tapeworms can reside in the small intestine for years; they may develop up to 7 m in length with each proglottid segment containing 50,000 to 100,000 eggs.

About 5 to 40 percent of patients with cysticercosis are tapeworm carriers, and most individuals with intestinal tapeworm infection do not develop symptomatic cysticercosis [14] . However, human tapeworm carriers are at risk for fecal-oral autoinoculation of eggs and subsequent development of cysticercosis. It has also been postulated that human tapeworm carriers may ingest eggs from proglottids carried from the small intestine into the stomach by reverse peristalsis, although this mechanism has not been proven.

Pigs acquire infection through ingestion of food or water contaminated by infected human feces. Rates of transmission are high in rural communities where pigs roam free and human fecal contamination of soil is common. Pig-to-pig transmission also occurs, although the magnitude and effect of this transmission on rates of human infection is not fully understood [15] .

A common misconception is that cysticercosis is acquired by eating pork. However, as the above life cycle illustrates, ingestion of infected pork only causes adult tapeworm infestation (taeniasis), because infected pork contains the larval cysts that develop into adult worms in human intestine, but does not contain the eggs that cause cysticercosis [16] .

Transmission of cysticercosis was previously thought to occur by indirect means such as by the ingestion of produce irrigated with water contaminated with human feces containing T. solium eggs. However, epidemiological evidence suggests that the most common source of infective eggs is an asymptomatic household tapeworm carrier [17,18] . Therefore, cysticercosis should be viewed as a disease largely transmitted from person to person, with infected pigs as perpetuators of infection.

The taenia life cycle is discussed in further detail separately. (See "Intestinal tapeworms" section on Taeniasis).

SUMMARY Cysticercosis is caused by the larval stage of the tapeworm Taenia solium. (See "Introduction" above). Approximately 50 million people worldwide are estimated to have cysticercosis infection, which is endemic in many regions of Central and South America, sub-Saharan Africa, India, and Asia. The prevalence of cysticercosis varies and is often higher in rural or periurban areas, especially where pigs are raised and where sanitary conditions are suboptimal. (See "Epidemiology" above). The most common source of infective eggs is an asymptomatic household tapeworm carrier. Household contacts of patients with neurocysticercosis have a three-fold higher risk of positive serology for cysticercosis, in comparison with controls. (See "Epidemiology" above). Cysticercosis is transmitted by ingestion of T. solium eggs shed in the stool of a human tapeworm carrier. Following ingestion, embryos (oncospheres) hatch in the small intestine, invade the bowel wall and disseminate hematogenously to brain, striated muscles, liver, and/or other tissues. (See "Life cycle and transmission" above). Humans become T. solium tapeworm carriers by ingesting undercooked pork containing cysticerci in muscle tissue. About 5 to 40 percent of patients with cysticercosis are tapeworm carriers, and most individuals with intestinal tapeworm infection do not develop symptomatic cysticercosis. (See "Life cycle and transmission" above). A common misconception is that one can acquire neurocysticercosis by eating pork. However, ingestion of infected pork causes adult tapeworm infestation (taeniasis) but not cysticercosis. This is because infected pork contains the larval cysts that develop into adult worms in human intestine, but does not contain the eggs that cause cysticercosis. (See "Life cycle and transmission" above).

ACKNOWLEDGMENT*—*The editorial staff at UpToDate, Inc. would like to acknowledge Drs. Peter Weller and Karin Leder, who contributed to an earlier version of this topic review.


Use of UpToDate is subject to the Subscription and License Agreement. REFERENCES
Montano, SM, Villaran, MV, Ylquimiche, L, et al. Neurocysticercosis: association between seizures, serology, and brain CT in rural Peru. Neurology 2005; 65:229. Nicoletti, A, Bartoloni, A, Sofia, V, et al. Epilepsy and neurocysticercosis in rural Bolivia: a population-based survey. Epilepsia 2005; 46:1127. Medina, MT, Durón, RM, Martínez, L, et al. Prevalence, incidence, and etiology of epilepsies in rural Honduras: the Salamá Study. Epilepsia 2005; 46:124. Rajshekhar, V, Raghava, MV, Prabhakaran, V, et al. Active epilepsy as an index of burden of neurocysticercosis in Vellore district, India. Neurology 2006; 67:2135. García, HH, Gonzalez, AE, Evans, CA, Gilman, RH. Cysticercosis Working Group in Peru. Taenia solium cysticercosis. Lancet 2003; 362:547. Budkhe, C, White Jr, AC, Garcia, HH. Zoonotic Larval Cestode Infections: Neglected, Neglected Tropical Diseases?. PLoS Neglected Tropical Diseases; :. Willingham AL, 3rd, Engels, D. Control of Taenia solium cysticercosis/taeniosis. Adv Parasitol 2006; 61:509. del la, Garza Y, Graviss, EA, Daver, NG, et al. Epidemiology of neurocysticercosis in Houston, Texas. Am J Trop Med Hyg 2005; 73:766. Ong, S, Talan, DA, Moran, GJ, et al. Neurocysticercosis in radiographically imaged seizure patients in U.S. emergency departments. Emerg Infect Dis 2002; 8:608. Sorvillo, FJ, DeGiorgio, C, Waterman, SH. Deaths from cysticercosis, United States. Emerg Infect Dis 2007; 13:230. Wallin, MT, Kurtzke, JF. Neurocysticercosis in the United States: review of an important emerging infection. Neurology 2004; 63:1559. Schantz, PM, Moore, AC, Munoz, JL, et al. Neurocysticercosis in an Orthodox Jewish community in New York City. N Engl J Med 1992; 327:692. Goodman, KA, Ballagh, SA, Carpio, A. Case-control study of seropositivity for cysticercosis in Cuenca, Ecuador. Am J Trop Med Hyg 1999; 60:70. Kalra, V, Suri, M, Jailkhani, BL. A profile of childhood neurocysticercosis. Indian J Pediatr 1994; 61:33. Gonzalez, AE, Lopez-Urbina, T, Tsang, BY, et al. Short report: secondary transmission in porcine cysticercosis: description and their potential implications for control sustainability. Am J Trop Med Hyg 2005; 73:501. Garcia, HH, Del Brutto, OH. Neurocysticercosis: updated concepts about an old disease. Lancet Neurol 2005; 4:653. Garcia, HH, Gilman, RH, Gonzalez, AE, et al. Hyperendemic human and porcine Taenia solium infection in Peru. Am J Trop Med Hyg 2003; 68:268. Garcia, HH, Gonzalez, AE, Gilman, RH. Diagnosis, treatment and control of Taenia solium cysticercosis. Curr Opin Infect Dis 2003; 16:411.

uptodate.com

[جوري]

I have taken the liberty to host the image for the life cycle

you'll need a subscription to see the original but you may try to also find this on uptodate.com

:w:

[Whatsthepoint]

It would seem the consumption of pork is not a major health threat in countries where meat production is properly regulated.

[AvarAllahNoor]

:sl:
Several reasons:
1) According to cannibals, pork tastes like human beings (that's what I was told anyway!)
2) Impracticalities in killing the animal; for an animal to be fit for consumption, all the blood has to be drained - Islamically speaking that is. With a pig, you cannot drain all the blood since it has no neck. The only way to drain all of the animal's blood is to desecrate the corpse - something that is not allowed in Islam. The whole purpose of halal meat is to inflict the least amount of pain (so it doesn't suffer) AND that it's blood is all fully drained. Cutting the neck is the only way to do it.

Yeah it's a nasty job but if you're THAT self-righteous about the whole thing then the mere concept of killing animals for food would put you into a coma!

That makes sense. If you don't want to inflict pain, then why is the pig regarded is vile and unclean? That's not respectful is it. I know halal makes it edible, as you've asked Allah to forgive you for talking it's life. In Sikhism we belive the same, only we're told not to kill any animal to begin with. :D

[aamirsaab]

[B]That makes sense. If you don't want to inflict pain, then why is the pig regarded is vile and unclean? That's not respectful is it.

I've heard a lot about pig's cleanliness - some say it is not very clean and others say it is (just depends on whether the farmer does his job properly). I myself barf everytime I go near pigs and knowing that you cannot kill it in a halaal way (through minimal pain and without desecrating its corpse) is enough for me not to want to eat it.

I know halal makes it edible, as you've asked Allah to forgive you for talking it's life. In Sikhism we belive the same, only we're told not to kill any animal to begin with. :D

Hehehe. Well, at least you know where you stand. Islamically, we're allowed to eat most meat - just not pork and carnivores (which, scientifically speaking is quite clever since carnies won't have a lot of nutrients in them). Islam actually allows for a balanced and mixed diet if you look at it holistically.

Still, to each their own ways.

[Leyla73]

Hi aamirsaab,
You've said here above that islamically, we're allowed to eat most meat, just not pork and carnivores. I totally agree about pork, but what about fish? I mean, we're allowed to eat fish, even though some fish eat other fish (the ones that are smaller than them of course)?

[aamirsaab]

Hi aamirsaab,
You've said here above that islamically, we're allowed to eat most meat, just not pork and carnivores. I totally agree about pork, but what about fish? I mean, we're allowed to eat fish, even though some fish eat other fish (the ones that are smaller than them of course)?

Yah. Fish is a whole can of worms (or should I say tank of fish - yeah I know that was lame) that I don't have much knowledge on. I know that Shark and pirahna would be haram under the carnivore ruling but that's the limit of my knowledge on the matter.

[Leyla73]

Yah. Fish is a whole can of worms (or should I say tank of fish - yeah I know that was lame) that I don't have much knowledge on. I know that Shark and pirahna would be haram under the carnivore ruling but that's the limit of my knowledge on the matter.

Oh Ok doesn't matter then :)
Thanks anyways!

[Whatsthepoint]

What about shrimps?

[aamirsaab]

What about shrimps?

I've heard they and prawns are allowed. But I've also heard crustaceans are haraam. So, I don't know for sure.

[Thinker]

Why do we have to justify anything to Thinker???? :?

Allah SWT said don't eat pork so we won't eat it. Who cares if it is hygenic or not?

This is how it is... whether someone likes it or not.

Peace

Why do you think that I am asking anyone to justify anything? Why are you and some others so defensive? I have no hidden agenda, I asked a simple question about the origin of the ban on pork; I made some simple observations about the fact that the ban existed long before Islam. I don't care if you eat pork or don't eat pork and I am not asking any Muslims or Jews to 'justify' why they don't eat pork. Why does such a simple question irritate some of you?

[Muezzin]

Hi aamirsaab,
You've said here above that islamically, we're allowed to eat most meat, just not pork and carnivores. I totally agree about pork, but what about fish? I mean, we're allowed to eat fish, even though some fish eat other fish (the ones that are smaller than them of course)?

There are two schools of thought (or of fish? :p) on the matter - one school of thought would discourage eating carnivorous fish; the other school of thought would permit all 'creatures of the ocean'.

There is a key hadith in this area which I can't quite remember. I'll see what I can do inshallah.

I have no hidden agenda, I asked a simple question about the origin of the ban on pork; I made some simple observations about the fact that the ban existed long before Islam.

Any secular explanation is purely speculatory at this point.

[Whatsthepoint]

There are two schools of thought (or of fish? :p) on the matter - one school of thought would discourage eating carnivorous fish; the other school of thought would permit all 'creatures of the ocean'.

Even sea pigs?

[Muezzin]

Even sea pigs?

Ha-ha.

Like, I said, there are two schools of thought when it comes to seafood.

After consulting Google Image Search, I have decided that sea pigs should really be called Cthulhu's Tumours, and as such I would not want to eat one. :p

[Chuck]

Why do you think that I am asking anyone to justify anything? Why are you and some others so defensive? I have no hidden agenda, I asked a simple question about the origin of the ban on pork; I made some simple observations about the fact that the ban existed long before Islam. I don't care if you eat pork or don't eat pork and I am not asking any Muslims or Jews to 'justify' why they don't eat pork. Why does such a simple question irritate some of you?

bugs are irritating :P

[جوري]

It would seem the consumption of pork is not a major health threat in countries where meat production is properly regulated.

as stated in my post.. you don't need to make a super genetically engineered clean pig to bypass God's law.. If you've built your faith on reason, then you'll accept the minor nuances that come with the territory -- I don't think we are missing much? Do you miss eating Giraffes or zebras? We have an abundance of everything else-- why do we always have to go for what is prohibited? Be that as it may-- you can get a series of worms that can set shop anywhere from ANY meat you eat, it is true-- but a B12 deficiency from Diphyllobothrium latum from a fish hardly compares to Neurocystericosis whatever the percentage!

peace

[S1aveofA11ah]

If any meat did what this meat does in the video I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole...


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccrTJn-YF4

also this clip explains some of the sicknesses pork can give:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fm-QFW7Fno

Funny this question has been brought up with all the Irish pig problems recently...

[AvarAllahNoor]

If any meat did what this meat does in the video I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole...


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_ccrTJn-YF4

also this clip explains some of the sicknesses pork can give:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fm-QFW7Fno

Funny this question has been brought up with all the Irish pig problems recently...

Well we had BSE not long ago, that was cows. So people can pick what they want to 'support' their causes or beliefs.

[militant g-hard]

yo! yo! yo! everyone!!!!!

I just want to say that islam means peace. How does islam achieve peace?
Islam does so buy telling us what is negative and what is positive. Every step we take, every action we carry out, it tells us what causes us harm and what doesnt. By avoiding any negative and harmful things and only doing positve and benifiacal things a person achieves a peaceful life.

This leads me to expalin why pork is not permitted in islam. Not because of superstition but quite simply there is harm in eating it. if there wasnt, islam would permit us to eat it, but islam it, the reason is that there are negative effects in consuming pork.

hope that awnsers the question

i did hear from some one that pigs digest differently from other animals and thus have the higest level of ureaic acid in its blood which is a toxin. this could be a reason why we are not allowed to eat pigs

[S1aveofA11ah]

Well we had BSE not long ago, that was cows. So people can pick what they want to 'support' their causes or beliefs.

Yes BSE was a recent thing. Pigs have had the diseases mentioned in the second video since probably day dot - much longer than BSE's existence. In fact they probably had more chances of them in the past with less modern farming techniques, scientific test methods, better storage/preservation/freezing etc.

Also BSE was caused by mistreating the cows by feeding them other cows if I recall the incident correctly. This would not occur if cows were left to feed naturally or fed properly by humans.

I think pigs are the only animals which eat excrement. Whether they eat excrement or are fed at the Ritz every day they still spread the mentioned diseases. Also I have heard that pig meat is extremely high in fat content - a no-no for good health.

So people can pick what they want to 'support' their beliefs - but the wiser person will pick that which makes more sense from the facts/figures available not just a recent 'blip' i.e. BSE.

[Hamayun]

Why do you think that I am asking anyone to justify anything? Why are you and some others so defensive? I have no hidden agenda, I asked a simple question about the origin of the ban on pork; I made some simple observations about the fact that the ban existed long before Islam. I don't care if you eat pork or don't eat pork and I am not asking any Muslims or Jews to 'justify' why they don't eat pork. Why does such a simple question irritate some of you?

I am not offended I just don't see why people need to find hidden reasons about why we shouldn't eat pork.

The answer is simple: Islam forbids pork. That is good enough for me :)

[Azy]

I have taken the liberty to host the image for the life cycle

you'll need a subscription to see the original but you may try to also find this on uptodate.com

:w:

Does the lack of a cysticercosis threat mean you're quite happy with a beef tapeworm infestation?

Muezzin: if all meat tasted the same would you reject it because every animal tasted like human?

[Woodrow]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

It is not only Muslims and Jews that do not eat pork I am aware of some Christian denominations that also do not. Seventh day Adventists immediately come to mind.

As far as how it got into Islamic Teachings. We are obligated to follow what came before and to follow all of the Prophets(PBUH) True scriptures are for all of mankind.

Now the reason pork is forbidden, is really very simple. Because Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. I think we stress our selves out too much in trying to find a reason for it being forbidden.

I suspect many atheists push for a natural health benefit as to why pork would have been found to be dangerous and want to tell us this to be the reason we decided Allaah(swt) has forbidden it. I think too often us Muslims fail to see the suggested insinuation non-believers are directing us to, when they try to push us to find a natural reason for the forbidding of pork.

If that were the case following the logic of that argument all people would have forbidden pork, unless everybody except Jews and Muslims were determined to get sick eating it.

[Hawa]

Wow - once again I am amazed at how the simplest of questions can cause irritation !!

Have to say, if it were me expecting answers I would've left this site a long time ago. Being rude seems the order of the day...

[Hamayun]

Have to say, if it were me expecting answers I would've left this site a long time ago. Being rude seems the order of the day...

lol I don't think anyone was being rude sister.

[Chuck]

Does the lack of a cysticercosis threat mean you're quite happy with a beef tapeworm infestation?

Nope but it is less dangerous and easier to prevent and treat.

T.saginata is closely related to the more dangerous T.solium, which causes more serious zoonotic problems than T.saginata since the cysts can infect humans with fatal results.

http://www.smallstock.info/research/...0/R5580-01.pdf

[Chuck]

Now the reason pork is forbidden, is really very simple. Because Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. I think we stress our selves out too much in trying to find a reason for it being forbidden.

I suspect many atheists push for a natural health benefit as to why pork would have been found to be dangerous and want to tell us this to be the reason we decided Allaah(swt) has forbidden it. I think too often us Muslims fail to see the suggested insinuation non-believers are directing us to, when they try to push us to find a natural reason for the forbidding of pork.

If that were the case following the logic of that argument all people would have forbidden pork, unless everybody except Jews and Muslims were determined to get sick eating it.

I don't know about most people but the reason I think some people like me try to find natural reasons is that Allah says he had made halal what is good and haram what is harmful. But one thing is harmful is very complicated to assess in for somethings.

[Muezzin]

Muezzin: if all meat tasted the same would you reject it because every animal tasted like human?

Yes. Even if Islam did not forbid it.

Fortunately, most things taste like chicken, apparently.

[Chuck]

Interesting....

Early last year, a number of workers at a pork processing plant in Austin, Minn., began reporting similar symptoms: weakness, fatigue, "heavy legs," pain, and sensory disturbance. When doctors and state health officials investigated, it became clear that all the affected workers had been stationed in or near a portion of the plant where hog brains were liquefied using blasts of compressed air. Wait, does that mean it's time for the Explainer to stop eating pork brains?

No, but inhaling them would be a bad idea. After months of study, it now seems fairly certain that breathing aerosolized hog brain tissue triggers an immune response in the human body that is responsible for these workers' ailments. But there is no evidence thus far that eating pork or even pork brains will trigger the illness. In a press conference Wednesday at the annual convention of the American Academy of Neurology, doctors stressed that "there is no indication that this is a food-borne illness," nor any indication that it can be passed from person to person.

Torie Bosch warned that it could be dangerous to inhale cremated human remains. Michelle Tsai looked at the meat byproducts that go into a can of dog food. Emily Yoffe answered questions about foot-and-mouth disease. Brendan I. Koerner went over how you test for mad cow disease, and Juliet Lapidos explained why the government thinks mad cow is an STD.At the same time, the investigation is preliminary, and scientists have yet to identify the specific agent that is making workers sick. And, anyway, given that a single serving of pork brains in gravy contains a heady 3,500 milligrams of cholesterol—or 1,170 percent of the government's recommended daily intake—it might be best to go easy on the brains.

http://www.slate.com/id/2189379/

[K.Venugopal]

One man's meat is another's poison.

[malayloveislam]

Don't you think that the prohibition of eating meat in Hinduism is originated from Jainism?

A Jain can't eat almost everything, they can't eat even vegetables like garlic and onion. They've got vegetarianism from Ahimsa teaching (non-injuring teaching), they had their motto Ahimsah Pramo Dharmah or "Ahimsa is religious duty" in carved in their temples.

Most Brahmins like Sarasvat Brahmins in Kashmir are traditionally meat consumers. Those Brahmins from the region with strong Jain influence like in Tamil Nadu, Rajasthan, and Gujarat are strictly vegetarians.

[Yanal]

:sl:
As aamir has states there can be a lot of reasons one being the pig is a filthy animal swagging in the mud with it's
Big tummy dangling, who would want to touch , see or eat that thing?

[Woodrow]

:sl:
As aamir has states there can be a lot of reasons one being the pig is a filthy animal swagging in the mud with it's
Big tummy dangling, who would want to touch , see or eat that thing?

That is one side of a pig that has been a misconception for centuries. Pigs are actually one of the cleanest farm animals if given room. However, many farmers are greedy and try to squeeze as many pigs into as small a space as possible. Pigs are survivors and will live under adverse conditions, so somehow it got into common lore that is what pigs prefer.

IF ANYTHING I SOMETIMES FEEL THAT MAKING THE PIG HARAM IS TO PROTECT THE PIG FROM US. WE HAVE MISTREATED PIGS SINCE THE DAWN OF HISTORY.

It should also be noted that it is impossible to slaughter a pig in a halal manner. Because of the anatomy of a pig's neck, it can not be slaughtered without causing it great pain and suffering.

[Whatsthepoint]

It should also be noted that it is impossible to slaughter a pig in a halal manner. Because of the anatomy of a pig's neck, it can not be slaughtered without causing it great pain and suffering.

What about decapitation?

[Hamayun]

What about decapitation?

Then it would no longer be Halal.

[Chuck]

IF ANYTHING I SOMETIMES FEEL THAT MAKING THE PIG HARAM IS TO PROTECT THE PIG FROM US. WE HAVE MISTREATED PIGS SINCE THE DAWN OF HISTORY.

It should also be noted that it is impossible to slaughter a pig in a halal manner. Because of the anatomy of a pig's neck, it can not be slaughtered without causing it great pain and suffering.

I think there are reasons for both sides, (1) halal slaughter is difficult. (2) as you said they are survivors their tolerance has evolved much higher, which would harm us more if consume them. From evolutionary pov might make more sense. There are animals that eat things toxic to humans and some animals are hosts to pathogens that doesn't harm them but they harm other animals. Eating meat of these animals that are tolerant to harmful toxins and pathogens are not suitable for human consumption. Normally carnivore and scavengers carry more pathogens in their system than herbivore.

[جوري]

Does the lack of a cysticercosis threat mean you're quite happy with a beef tapeworm infestation?
?

What exactly is your inquiry?
I like your gumption btw.. seems you grew a backbone upon my request for an account suspension~!

might do you some good by the way when you want to take me on, to read all I write?

as stated in my post.. you don't need to make a super genetically engineered clean pig to bypass God's law.. If you've built your faith on reason, then you'll accept the minor nuances that come with the territory -- I don't think we are missing much? Do you miss eating Giraffes or zebras? We have an abundance of everything else-- why do we always have to go for what is prohibited? Be that as it may-- you can get a series of worms that can set shop anywhere from ANY meat you eat, it is true-- but a B12 deficiency from Diphyllobothrium latum from a fish hardly compares to Neurocystericosis whatever the percentage!

peace

[Chuck]

What exactly is your inquiry?
I like your gumption btw.. seems you grew a backbone upon my request for an account suspension~!

might do you some good by the way when you want to take me on, to read all I write?

Welcome back sister :)

[جوري]

Welcome back sister :)

Allah yikhleek akhi.. Baraka Allah feek
:w:

[Zamtsa]

Eventhough we could find cleaner Pigs, we couldn't resist to offer thee the facts in National Geographic, about Bird Flu caused by Swine's meat.
The story was that a bat was infected by Virus and the bat ate a fruit and the fruit was being eaten by the Swine in a cage.
Proven that Viruses could live and multiply themselves easier in the Swine's body. This is the first factor.

2nd factor, we only eat animals who are Herbivores and they eat clean things. Rasulullah had forbid Muslim to eat land Carnivores and Himar (donkey) at Khaibar war. And he also forbade us to eat a **** eating camel.

3rd, He forbade us to eat something because it has bad characteristics which you could found on Swine which is unclean naturally and they liked to switch partners for sexual intercourses. The donkey also has a bad character, that was why Rasulullah forbade Muslim to eat it, because we'll eat part of their flesh, and that will soon unite to our own DNA and genes.


Assalamu manit taba'al huda (May peace be upon who follow the guidance).

[Azy]

I like your gumption btw.. seems you grew a backbone upon my request for an account suspension~!

I haven't been all that active lately so I wasn't aware, but it would be such a dull place without you :D

For future conversations with residents of the UK, gumption is usually only taken to mean 'common sense' here. I like it, people should use the word more often.

What exactly is your inquiry?
might do you some good by the way when you want to take me on, to read all I write?

Probably, but it wouldn't have made much difference to my question. If T. solium infestation and the associated ailments are some kind of divine warning against eating pork, what then does T. saginata and it's negative effects tell us about beef?

Also, some people contributing to this thread think it is difficult to prevent but simply cooking the meat properly kills the parasites, so eradication of the tapeworm is not a big problem.
To quote the DEFRA Zoonoses Report 2007, "There have been no reports of the cysts of T. solium in pigs for many years in the UK."

T. solium is not a pig parasite that infects humans, it is a human parasite that most often uses pigs as an intermediate host. T. solium is also known to use sheep as an intermediate and can also propagate without spreading to other species at all. Since humans are the definitive host and therefore the parasite cannot exist without them, it seems strange that people are persecuting the pigs when it is us that infects them, not the other way round.

The general point you're making is that pigs are bad because they spread serious diseases, but no mention has been made of cattle. Approximately 1% of European infections of TB are bovine TB and farming regulations there are more strict than places like Africa. According to the WHO bovine TB has a higher mortality rate than other strains, is less responsive to treatment and may make up a "substantial fraction" of cases in developing nations.
Given that 1.6 million people a year die from TB it seems likely that at the very least 16,000 of those are from bovine TB and the actual numbers could be well into the hundreds of thousands.

Why is noone crying out about unclean cattle when they are responsible for so much disease and death?

Eventhough we could find cleaner Pigs, we couldn't resist to offer thee the facts in National Geographic, about Bird Flu caused by Swine's meat.
The story was that a bat was infected by Virus and the bat ate a fruit and the fruit was being eaten by the Swine in a cage.
Proven that Viruses could live and multiply themselves easier in the Swine's body. This is the first factor.

It's true that pigs can receive/transmit diseases from both birds and humans but that is not the case here. Both the WHO and CDC believe that the disease was transmitted by direct contact with infected birds.

The fact that a particular species can pass infection to another species does in no way prove "that viruses live and multiply easier in a swine's body".

2nd factor, we only eat animals who are Herbivores and they eat clean things. Rasulullah had forbid Muslim to eat land Carnivores and Himar (donkey) at Khaibar war. And he also forbade us to eat a **** eating camel.
3rd, He forbade us to eat something because it has bad characteristics which you could found on Swine which is unclean naturally and they liked to switch partners for sexual intercourses. The donkey also has a bad character, that was why Rasulullah forbade Muslim to eat it, because we'll eat part of their flesh, and that will soon unite to our own DNA and genes.

I think you need to find out more about how digestion and genetics work, your food does not unite with your DNA.

As Woodrow said, pigs are quite clean in their natural environment, tending to eat plants, nuts, berries, worms and insects when they're available.

Personally I find chickens to be rather ill-tempered but I doubt that would prevent anyone from eating them. However, they are omnivores like pigs, not herbivores. When not in captivity they eat worms and insects, and are quite fond of lizards and frogs when they can get them. Chickens are also known to occasionally hunt smaller birds for food. Does anyone here eat chicken?

[aamirsaab]

... Does anyone here eat chicken?

I had part of a chicken for lunch. Yummy, yum in my tum-tum.

Thing with chicken is you can actually drain its blood without destroying the corpse - you canne do that with a piggy. (see my first post on this thread) and thus pig is forbidden (well, one of the reasons anyway)

[Dawud_uk]

Hi,

I note that Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork. As there is no rational reason not to eat pork I presume that there is something written in the scriptures of both religions forbidding the eating of pork? I suspect that a couple of thousand years back pigs were full of all manner of worms etc., and there was a good reason to steer people away from pork and that’s how it might of got itself into Jewish scriptures but how did it get into Islamic teachings?

if you thought like we did, accepted a creator, accepted rationally that he had sent us a book then the only rational thing for such a person to do would be to obey his creator, to do otherwise wouldnt be rational at all.

but to anyone outside of this belief, the actions in following that faith seem to lack ration. understand?

[Dawud_uk]

:sl:

just about everyone here has fallen into the classic trap when it comes to eating pig, this is why knowledge is important or you just keep repeating the mistakes of the past.

we don't not eat pork because it is dirty or carries diseases etc, we don't eat pork as Allah swt has told us not to, this is our position as Ahlus sunnah.

let me explain,

in the early days of islam there was a sect called the Mu'tazila, who believed everything comes from ration and in many ways elevated ration above revelation, they put their aql before their naql.

for example they said the Quran is the creation of Allah not the word of Allah, because words require a voice and a voice requires a throat and a diaphram to push out the air and lungs and this is putting a human body on the creator so the Quran must be a creation of Allah not the word of Allah.

see how messed up they are? Aql before naql and by doing so can take you outside of islam when you start to say things about Allah and his messenger (saws) and the shariah of Allah you have no right to say.

now one day a kaffir comes up and asks one of them why they don't eat pig, so the mu'taziyite scholar says because it is filthy, unclean, all the reasons used above in this thread.

so the non-muslim goes away, takes a piglet, raises it purely only eating vegetation, keeping it clean and then when it is ready to be eaten comes back to the mu'tazilite and asks him to eat it as is now pure, vegetarian, hasnt been kept in filth.

the mu'tazilite is totally destroyed in his arguments, his ration has lost to the ration of the kaffir.

but when the same trick is tried on a scholar of ahlus sunnah he says he doesn't eat it as Allah has forbidden it,

after this we can then go into a discussion on what is revelation and give da'wah to the non-muslim, explain our way of life and why we follow the Quran and sunnah, submitting only to Allah swt and calling to Tawheed. every single issue the kuffar come at us with to do with the particulars of islam can be turne this way to a discussion on tawheed.

:sl:

[i_m_tipu]

:sl:

just about everyone here has fallen into the classic trap when it comes to eating pig, this is why knowledge is important or you just keep repeating the mistakes of the past.

we don't not eat pork because it is dirty or carries diseases etc, we don't eat pork as Allah swt has told us not to, this is our position as Ahlus sunnah.

let me explain,

in the early days of islam there was a sect called the Mu'tazila, who believed everything comes from ration and in many ways elevated ration above revelation, they put their aql before their naql.

for example they said the Quran is the creation of Allah not the word of Allah, because words require a voice and a voice requires a throat and a diaphram to push out the air and lungs and this is putting a human body on the creator so the Quran must be a creation of Allah not the word of Allah.

see how messed up they are? Aql before naql and by doing so can take you outside of islam when you start to say things about Allah and his messenger (saws) and the shariah of Allah you have no right to say.

now one day a kaffir comes up and asks one of them why they don't eat pig, so the mu'taziyite scholar says because it is filthy, unclean, all the reasons used above in this thread.

so the non-muslim goes away, takes a piglet, raises it purely only eating vegetation, keeping it clean and then when it is ready to be eaten comes back to the mu'tazilite and asks him to eat it as is now pure, vegetarian, hasnt been kept in filth.

the mu'tazilite is totally destroyed in his arguments, his ration has lost to the ration of the kaffir.

but when the same trick is tried on a scholar of ahlus sunnah he says he doesn't eat it as Allah has forbidden it,

after this we can then go into a discussion on what is revelation and give da'wah to the non-muslim, explain our way of life and why we follow the Quran and sunnah, submitting only to Allah swt and calling to Tawheed. every single issue the kuffar come at us with to do with the particulars of islam can be turne this way to a discussion on tawheed.

:sl:

JajakAllah bro..

[Azy]

I had part of a chicken for lunch. Yummy, yum in my tum-tum.

Thing with chicken is you can actually drain its blood without destroying the corpse - you canne do that with a piggy. (see my first post on this thread) and thus pig is forbidden (well, one of the reasons anyway)

To be quite honest I didn't think chicken was haram (otherwise every muslim I know would be in trouble), it was just a response to Mr Thayyib's assertion that Islam permits one to eat only herbivores.

edit: Seems to be something to do with a hadith prohibiting fanged beasts and birds of prey, not specifically carnivores or omnivores.

[Zico]

Isn't there a saying "You are what you eat"? If so then thank God I dont eat pig lol

[Whatsthepoint]

Isn't there a saying "You are what you eat"? If so then thank God I dont eat pig lol

Why not, pigs are supposed to be highly intelligent and social and when properly cared for, one of the cleanest domesticated species.

[Zico]

Why not, pigs are supposed to be highly intelligent and social and when properly cared for, one of the cleanest domesticated species.

If you call eating discusting things and literally bathing in them intelligent, then I don't know what to say! :D

[Whatsthepoint]

If you call eating discusting things and literally bathing in them intelligent, then I don't know what to say! :D

When they're not properly cared for, they will resort to many things, just like humans actually.
If I should ever stop eating pork, it will be because of the pigs themselves rather than my health.

[Zico]

When they're not properly cared for, they will resort to many things, just like humans actually.
If I should ever stop eating pork, it will be because of the pigs themselves rather than my health.

It's you're body, you're rules!!:D

[جوري]

I haven't been all that active lately so I wasn't aware, but it would be such a dull place without you :D

I see you are just a persistent verruca?

For future conversations with residents of the UK, gumption is usually only taken to mean 'common sense' here. I like it, people should use the word more often.

in America is means Fortitude and determination.. I like it too, hence I used it.. in the negative sense though!

Probably, but it wouldn't have made much difference to my question. If T. solium infestation and the associated ailments are some kind of divine warning against eating pork, what then does T. saginata and it's negative effects tell us about beef?

Perhaps it would do you some good to re-read what I have written instead of modifying your meaning on every response back to me as I have pretty much covered it all!
let's break it down again perhaps the systematic approach will stick with you?
1-Every meat has potential for a worm infestation (COVERED CHECK)
2-All worms are not created equal, evidenced by my writing 'B12 deficiency from Diphyllobothrium latum for instance can't be made to compare to Neuro-Cysticercosis (it isn't a mere tinea this or tinea that) (COVERED CHECK)
3- HERE IT COMES NOW DRUM ROLLS ******* THERE NEED NOT BE A WARNING AGAINST WHAT WASN'T PROHIBITED, AS THERE NEED NOT BE A SCIENTIFIC REASON BEHIND A PROHIBITION ( I did cover that) all the reason there needs be for a prohibition is that Allah swt willed it so. These are the commandments which don't need to concern you, as I have also stated and linked to the fact that Worm infestation isn't a very rampant ordeal and we actually have meds not when it gets neurological but nonetheless if caught early enough...

my original post shall be the cure to your oh so frequent memory lapses

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...ml#post1059069

Also, some people contributing to this thread think it is difficult to prevent but simply cooking the meat properly kills the parasites, so eradication of the tapeworm is not a big problem.
To quote the DEFRA Zoonoses Report 2007, "There have been no reports of the cysts of T. solium in pigs for many years in the UK."

See above reply and the previous page for the worm cycle as it is--mere contact with fecal matter is enough for infestation!
Also, not previously mentioned but Contact with pigs associated with high prevalence of Toxoplasma gondii, it isn't merely a cat feces disease folks but how many areas must I cover?..I don't have the whole day to give you the medical compendium in two paragraphs or less.. and I am really the wrong person to argue this with, because whenever you are done, I'll throw something else your way that will have nothing to do with worms or tineas all together-- I suggest you read before you cut/paste me third party sources.

T. solium is not a pig parasite that infects humans, it is a human parasite that most often uses pigs as an intermediate host. T. solium is also known to use sheep as an intermediate and can also propagate without spreading to other species at all. Since humans are the definitive host and therefore the parasite cannot exist without them, it seems strange that people are persecuting the pigs when it is us that infects them, not the other way round.

you should focus your efforts really.. as my previous posts discusses Cysticercosis and NeuroCysticercosis as a detrimental manifestation of tinea solium so you won't waste your efforts chasing waldo.. when waldo wasn't the focus of the discussion..
LIFE CYCLE AND TRANSMISSION*—*Cysticercosis is transmitted by ingestion of T. solium eggs shed in the stool of a human tapeworm carrier (show figure 1). Following ingestion, embryos (oncospheres) hatch in the small intestine, invade the bowel wall and disseminate hematogenously to brain, striated muscles, liver, and/or other tissues. Over a period of three to eight weeks, tissue cysticerci develop; these consist of membranous walls filled with fluid and protoscolices (composed of rudimentary bodies and heads with suckers and hooks). Localization of cysts to the brain results in neurocysticercosis; humans with cysticercosis are incidental dead end hosts.

Humans become T. solium tapeworm carriers by ingesting undercooked pork containing cysticerci in muscle tissue. Once ingested, the protoscolices are released from the cysts and attach to the human small intestine by their suckers and hooks. Subsequently, maturation into an adult tapeworm occurs over a period of two to four months. Adult tapeworms can reside in the small intestine for years; they may develop up to 7 m in length with each proglottid segment containing 50,000 to 100,000 eggs.

again see previous page or link above!

The general point you're making is that pigs are bad because they spread serious diseases, but no mention has been made of cattle. Approximately 1% of European infections of TB are bovine TB and farming regulations there are more strict than places like Africa. According to the WHO bovine TB has a higher mortality rate than other strains, is less responsive to treatment and may make up a "substantial fraction" of cases in developing nations.

Actually that isn't the point I have made at all and I quote myself from post number 25

Also as a general rule there need NOT be any scientific reason for a prohibition-- if it is brilliant in part and you have come to accept it, then by same token you'll accept the whole, even if it doesn't make much sense to you...

http://www.islamicboard.com/health-s...ng-pork-2.html

.. I know, I know, It is the point you wish I had made so that your insta google search can make you pound hard on your chest .. I am sorry to have to do this

you don't need all that air anyway =)

Given that 1.6 million people a year die from TB it seems likely that at the very least 16,000 of those are from bovine TB and the actual numbers could be well into the hundreds of thousands.

You should take that out with your govt.
I have always felt the brits to be a little bit mad indeed..
I have avoided the madness and the cows when I visited last!
again, your point is lost to me? If you have an outbreak of mad cows and mad brits you should do something to control it?

Why is noone crying out about unclean cattle when they are responsible for so much disease and death?

You are not crying now?
be that as it may you can be your new cause.. you can be an anti-bovine advocate!
I suspect you'll have a wide following with the peta folks...


As for the rest.. I have no time to entertain outpourings of nonsense.. perhaps you can avoid yourself and everyone else all of this if you'd merely read before you write? what do you think?..
Two times I have un-subscribed from this thread, as what I have written and provided from the scientific journal is quite adequate..
Don't keep baiting me with the same question phrased in hordes of colorful ways!

You are not skilled enough to take me on!

cheers

[Zico]

^ Go sis!! Jazaki Allah Khiar :D

[جوري]

^ Go sis!! Jazaki Allah Khiar :D

This is the same fellow who was arguing with me the benefits of carrying sickle celled trait . and every article thence on he'd find some perverted way to make it fit with his intents although he has no understanding whatsoever of the science behind it.. and contradicts himself frequently as is usually the case when you have learned something five minutes ago and then come paste it on a forum!

I don't want to start another argument but it does seem like you're being purposefully evasive because it's clear what his point is.

The first line of the page you posted states :
"Sickle cell trait usually is not regarded as a disease state because it has complications that are either uncommon or mild. Nevertheless, under unusual circumstances serious morbidity or mortality can result".

If it provided benefit in 99% of cases and was detrimental in 1% it's obvious that it would persist.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...tml#post991934


to which I have replied

Indeed, and Malaria is a dz state --schizont infected Rbcs which like afore mentioned causes -- such as hypoxia, acidosis, high altitude etc cause the RBC's to go into a state similar to that of fulminant sickle cell.. i.e disabling the schizonts from surviving.. thus substituting one disease state for another doesn't confer immunity or superior genetics.. else we'd all be lining up at pfizer asking for vectors to transoform our normal hemoglobin to the carrier trait in case we desire a leave of absence to the Serengeti!
It is serendipitous that folks already in an ailing state not succumb to a superimposed infection..

He must enjoy the public abasements as I can see no logical reason to engage a topic when you have no clear understanding of it?

sob7an Allah
as is in the Quran

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِلنَّاسِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ أَكْثَرَ شَيْءٍ جَدَلًا {54}

[Pickthal 18:54] ----- but man is more than anything contentious.



anyhow, with that I hope we are done with this!

:w:

[Woodrow]

I have yet to figure out why there is such an obsession with pigs, pork chops and swine. I believe this has become the most posted subject on the Forums.

I will close this one with the ending I closed the others with.

We do not eat pork because Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. That is a sufficient reason for us not to eat it.