Salam - Circumcision questions for brothers only

[mp777]

Salam all,

Please allow me to apologize in advance, the topic is awkward, but I'm too embarrassed to ask an Imam these questions.

I have been learning the Quran and Arabic for years with the intention of converting inshallah.

One topic is troubling me and keeping me from taking the final leap: circumcision.

I know this might seem trivial to some, but as a guy in his 30's, I find the idea of cutting horrific and scary. I do not understand how Allah would want us to change something he created us with. Tattoos and piercings are body modifications that are frowned upon by Islam, so why allow cutting a sensitive organ?

Also, I have never had any problems with my foreskin or with infections etc.. and for those who have lived without it, I can tell you that you're missing on a lot.

So my questions are:

1-Did any converts go through the procedure, can you share your experiences? pain? bleeding? loss of sensitivity?

2-If I perform the shahada without the circumcision, can I still be considered a "real" muslim? I've heard many opinions on the subject.

3-Is there a particular circumcision that is Islamic? Can I keep part of my foreskin and not remove it completely? Does Islam/Sunna specify a percentage to be cut?

4-For the brothers that have been circumcised as kids, have you ever had erectile disfunction disorder? any kinds of problems?

<personal info removed>

Again, sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable with my questions.

Mark

[Zamtsa]

Bismillah I write

I have been seeing someone got circumcised, they used Anasthetics for Khitan, and they drink pain killers after being Khitan, and they don't feel any pain, because it's not painful. Just like surgery done without the patient loosing their consciousness, so too with this, no problem at all.

And the benefit is that your "that," won't suffer any sickness, and so too with your wife or future wife. And Rasulullah instructed us to cut the fur.

Ibrahim 'alaihi Salaam said Rasulullah, was circumsing his ownself with an axe when he was 80 years old (Shahih Al Jami' Shaghir).

The idea of not doing Khitan is out of date, because the DAKWAH in Islam instead because Khitan produces Hygiene, inside the foreskin lies all the dried urine which stick in there, that's why it suppose to be cut.



Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

[جوري]

circumcision is a sign of a covenant between Allah swt and Abraham --

there are many benefits to it, which you may google on this website, it has been extensively discussed here on LI.. in fact sometimes circumcision is curative for Phimosis amongst other things if you desire to google that at the NIH site..

You cut your nails and your hair, and groom, indeed you are created in one condition but maintaining yourself will require that you be rid yourself of somethings that seem 'natural' otherwise..

Adult circumcision is a small operation I doubt will take more than 20 minutes, I think you'll take more time for anesthesia than the actual operation itself, I can't feign to know whether it will hurt (afterward) or not, but no more than having your appendix or tonsils taken out or a tooth, pain relief for a few days and you'll be back to normal, if not better insha'Allah...

and Allah swt knows best

all the best

:w:

[wth1257]

Bismillah I write

I have been seeing someone got circumcised, they used Anasthetics for Khitan, and they drink pain killers after being Khitan, and they don't feel any pain, because it's not painful. Just like surgery done without the patient loosing their consciousness, so too with this, no problem at all.

And the benefit is that your "that," won't suffer any sickness, and so too with your wife or future wife. And Rasulullah instructed us to cut the fur.

Ibrahim 'alaihi Salaam said Rasulullah, was circumsing his ownself with an axe when he was 80 years old (Shahih Al Jami' Shaghir).

The idea of not doing Khitan is out of date, because the DAKWAH in Islam instead because Khitan produces Hygiene, inside the foreskin lies all the dried urine which stick in there, that's why it suppose to be cut.



Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

lol

I already am but I have to say, painfull or not I'd want to be KNOCKED OUT COLD:D

not nice to think about:'(

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[islamirama]

Wa'alaikum as'salaam,

As skye mentioned, it is part of the covenant and part of Islam. It also is better medically speaking. There are no "erectile dysfunction disorders" or anything. The foreskin is nothing more than extra loose skin in the front, taking it off is same as cutting nails, hair, or other hygiene maintaince humans should do.

It's best to go to a muslim or a jewish doctor for this, I would go to a jewish one. They have more experience doing this and will do it properly inshallah.

[Zamtsa]

lol

I already am but I have to say, painfull or not I'd want to be KNOCKED OUT COLD:D

not nice to think about:'(

Hehe he.

[جوري]

It's best to go to a muslim or a jewish doctor for this,

I hate to break it to you ( I really don't want to freak out the OP) but anyone can do a circumcision, doesn't have to be a Jew or a Muslim, this is literally all that is involved,

I have performed one on a baby a few years ago and there was no anesthesia or pain killers afterward.. His mother was instructed to put Vaseline in the fridge and use it on him if he became irritable or started to cry.. I really have no idea what it is like for an adult, but babies handle it fine..
The protocol has changed a little since, there is anesthesia now involved I believe, it has been a while since my peds/Ob-Gyn rotas..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[جوري]

woops.. I must apologize, I just now saw the 'brother's only' if my posts are of no help to you, please kindly disregard them

all the best

:w:

[Yanal]

Asalam A'lakum Warkmatulah Wabarkatuh I will try to answer your questions.

1-Did any converts go through the procedure, can you share your experiences? pain? bleeding? loss of sensitivity?
I'm pure Muslim not a convert.
2-If I perform the shahada without the circumcision, can I still be considered a "real" muslim? I've heard many opinions on the subject.

3-Is there a particular circumcision that is Islamic? Can I keep part of my foreskin and not remove it completely? Does Islam/Sunna specify a percentage to be cut?I think some of the skin but I do not know if I am correct thinking the time it happened to me I was 3 years old.

4-For the brothers that have been circumcised as kids, have you ever had erectile disfunction disorder? any kinds of problems?
Nothing for me. But I was a baby , if you're going to do it, it might be another story. Not at all did these questions bother me, I hope yours go well. InshAllah! If have more questions regarding this matter please feel free to drop me one:) hope my answers help.
Your bro in Islam Yanal

[islamirama]

I hate to break it to you ( I really don't want to freak out the OP) but anyone can do a circumcision, doesn't have to be a Jew or a Muslim, this is literally all that is involved,

I have performed one on a baby a few years ago and there was no anesthesia or pain killers afterward.. His mother was instructed to put Vaseline in the fridge and use it on him if he became irritable or started to cry.. I really have no idea what it is like for an adult, but babies handle it fine..
The protocol has changed a little since, there is anesthesia now involved I believe, it has been a while since my peds/Ob-Gyn rotas..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

No need to break it to me, i know how it is done and who can do it. I just said muslim or jew since they have more practice and won't end up cutting more/less than necessary.

[جوري]

got you.. but that is what the Gomco Clamps are for.. 'precision'
but you are possibly right, in adulthood, he'll probably need a Muslim surgeon!

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Yanal]

Asalam A'lakum Warakmatulah Wabarkatuh
Don't scare the guy, with scary pictures. He won't convert then.

[islamirama]

got you.. but that is what the Gomco Clamps are for.. 'precision'
but you are possibly right, in adulthood, he'll probably need a Muslim surgeon!

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

It's not about precision but rather experience of knowing how much to cut...

[Yanal]

Asalam A'lakum Warakmatulah Wabarkatuh
Don't scare the guy, with scary pictures. He won't convert then.And brother Mark I didn't answer question 2 intentionally because I don't have the right answer and do not want to misguide you what so ever.

[islamirama]

So my questions are:

1-Did any converts go through the procedure, can you share your experiences? pain? bleeding? loss of sensitivity?

NA

2-If I perform the shahada without the circumcision, can I still be considered a "real" muslim? I've heard many opinions on the subject.

The validity of one's acceptance of Islaam is not dependent on his performance of circumcision and it is valid for one to adopt Islaam even if he has not had himself circumcized.

See,

Circumcision for men.

The benefits of circumcision outweigh the pain.

The health and religious benefits of circumcision .

3-Is there a particular circumcision that is Islamic? Can I keep part of my foreskin and not remove it completely? Does Islam/Sunna specify a percentage to be cut?

See,

Circumcision: how it is done and the rulings on it .

The time for circumcision .

Ruling on circumcision .

4-For the brothers that have been circumcised as kids, have you ever had erectile disfunction disorder? any kinds of problems?

No and No.

Billions (musilms, christians, jews, and others) have done it, had it had any problems, it would have been well known and documented.

[mp777]

Salam to all, and thank you for your answers, and for the sister (Skye), I meant to ask the question to brothers for obvious practical reasons rather than with the intention of excluding sisters who might have important feedback to give. Thank you for the info. although the pic of all those scissors bought a chill down my spine. Why that many???

I'm envious of those among you who had the op. in childhood. It is now behind you.

Yesterday I e-mailed a muslim Doctor regarding question #3 Is there a particular circumcision that is Islamic? Can I keep part of my foreskin and not remove it completely? Does Islam/Sunna specify a percentage to be cut?

He said that there are several styles of circumcision, some keeping partial coverage of the glans (head), others more dramatic, but in essence, he had no idea what was considered "halaal". He was also candid enough to mention that some converts were unhappy with the results, and had to come back for more to be removed. This of course is the last thing I would want to do, once is more than enough, thank you very much.

Anyone here knows a hadeeth perhaps that specifies what kind of khitaan is "halaal"?

Perhaps, I can find some sort of flexibility which will allow me to keep as much of myself intact as possible. Perhaps there's a variation in the Fiqh of the different Mathahib (Shafi3i, 7anbali, Maliki, etc...). Perhaps the Shiites have a completely different view on the topic.

Again, thank you all, all your comments and feedback are helpful.

May Allah bless you all.

Mark

[جوري]

Salam to all, and thank you for your answers, and for the sister (Skye), I meant to ask the question to brothers for obvious practical reasons rather than with the intention of excluding sisters who might have important feedback to give. Thank you for the info. although the pic of all those scissors bought a chill down my spine. Why that many???



Mark

:sl:
just in case you get a nervous doctor who keeps dropping scissors :haha:
I am kidding.. well technically you really need two instruments a clamp and a scalpel and some local anesthetic ..

here is the method by which it is done, I don't know how much you want to know? so I stayed with a fairly common source .. yes wikipedia describes it surprisingly rather well

Anesthetic should be applied (though it is a historically recent addition, dating only to approximately the early 1990s).
The foreskin is separated from the glans. To do this, a dorsal slit in the foreskin is frequently employed.
The bell of the Gomco clamp is placed over the glans, and the foreskin is pulled over the bell.
The base of the Gomco clamp is placed over the bell, and the Gomco clamp's arm is fitted.
After the surgeon confirms correct fitting and placement (and the amount of foreskin to be excised), the nut on the Gomco clamp is tightened, causing the clamping of nerves and blood flow to the foreskin.
The Gomco clamp is left in place for about five minutes to allow clotting to occur, then the foreskin is severed using a scalpel.
The Gomco's base and bell are then removed, allowing for bandaging of the penis.

had to remove the link, but you can google it if you want to see the entire page



:w:

[Chuck]

1-Did any converts go through the procedure, can you share your experiences? pain? bleeding? loss of sensitivity?

In US circumcision is common... God bless US of A :D

[Whatsthepoint]

In US circumcision is common... God bless US of A :D

Why is that anyway?

[wth1257]

Why is that anyway?

We Americans on the board would be happy to tell you, but then we'd have to kill you:ooh:


Sorry:embarrass

I didn't make the rules, I just enforce them:cry:

[wth1257]

In US circumcision is common... God bless US of A :D

you're not kidding:D

[Zamtsa]

Shahih Hadits About Khitan For Women


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

Rasulullah 'alaihi Shalawatu tu wa Salaam spoke "Ikhfadhii (cut it low), WA LAA TANHAKI (DON'T CUT IT TOO MUCH), fainnahu indharu lil wajhi (so it will make the wife's face look brighter to her and the husband), wa ahzha liz zauj (and it could be more accepted by the husband) [HR.Abu Daud, Thabrani, al Bazzar and others) in Silsilah Hadits Ash-Shahihah 353-358) by syaikh Muhammad Nashiruddin Al Albani.

Cut it just a little.

idzal (when) taqal (meet) khitaanani (2 circumcised) faqad wajabal ghusl (then it is obligated to do ghusl: to take a bath). [Shahih Al Irwa' 80, Tuhfah al Maudud Fi Ahkamil Maulud by Syamsuddin bin Abu Bakar al Jauziyyah].

the mistakes of circumcision of women only began with the excessive cutting, which is done beyond measures

As someone on a site said that this is Dha'if, the Hadits they used was not within the Isnad from Al Bazzar, Ath Thabrani, and Khatib Al Baghdadi, and it was not from Anas bin Malik Radhiyallahu 'anhu

As ye who showed good skill in medical an all, your knowledge must reach the positive side of circumcision, because the mistakes of circumcision of women began with the excessive cutting, beyond measures, because the minority said it is Sunnah, they did not said "It does not exist.


Do it to your babies, and do aqiqah at the 7 day for them.

'an Ali, 'an Rasulullah qaala 'idzaa khafadhti fa asyimmii, wa laa tanhakii, fa innahu ahsanu lil wa ardha zzauj. Hasan hadits from Khatib Al Baghdadi, in Silsilah Al Ahadits Ash Shahihah no.722, Shahih Jami' Shagir 508-232

'an Anas 'an Rasulullah qaala 'idzaa khafadhti fa asyimmi wa laa tanhaki fainnahu asraa wa akhthaa 'inda zzauj. Hasan in Mu'jam Al Ausath, Shahih Jami'ush Shaghir 509-233

Syaikh Nashir Al Albaani in his book Tamamul Minnah, in the Chapter Sunnah Fitrah "According to the preferable opinion, which were the Jumhur Ulama(Majority), such as: Malik, Syafi'i and Ahmad - and the view of Imam Ibnul Qayyim Al Jauziyyah is Wajib(Fardhu 'ain). There were 15 Dalil(sources) which supported this view.

This is about women pleasures.

As ye who showed good skill in medical an all, your knowledge must reach the positive side of circumcision, because the mistakes of circumcision of women began with the excessive cutting, beyond measures, because the minority said it is Sunnah, they did not said "It does not exist.

As someone on a site that this is Dha'if, the Hadits they used was not within the Isnad from Al Bazzar, Ath Thabrani, and Khatib Al Baghdadi, and it was not from Anas bin Malik Radhiyallahu 'anhu


Al-Mawardi describes it as follows: "Female circumcision is cutting a fold of skin in the upper part of the vagina, which resembles a fruit stone or a rooster comb, but without removing the whole fold".33
Al-Nawawi says: "It is cutting off the lowest part of the fold of skin in the upper part of the vagina".34
However, female circumcision as currently practised in some Islamic countries in Africa, does not observe the limitation set by scholars, but goes much further. So-called Pharaonic circumcision (infibulation)35 is still common in certain countries. Everything is removed, with the labia and the organ itself being mutilated and just an opening left for urine and blood.
I have appended to my paper the treatise written by Sudanese Professor Amin Dawood, because of its great value. It was originally published in Khartoum. I pray God to guide me and grant me sound judgement, and I pray that this paper and its companion piece be of benefit. I pray God to make all our endeavours dedicated solely to His service. It is God who speaks the truth and guides people along the right path. Praise be to God, the Lord of all the worlds.
Physicians tell us that female circumcision, and infibulation in particular, has severe consequences, which are summed up as follows.
1. This form of circumcision is a distortion of the female organ that has a terrible psychological effect on women, causing depression, nervous tension, and anxiety.
2. It weakens the sexual desire, and being so, when the girl gets married, it spoils marital life for her and becomes a major obstacle in the way of her sexual satisfaction.
3. It may cause infection and introduce germs into a woman’s pelvis when it is performed by ignorant practitioners and at locations with poor sanitary conditions and with non-sterilized instruments. A girl exposed to such conditions usually gets sick and is exposed to inflammations, and her fallopian tubes become blocked. She may suffer acute, often fatal, bleeding after the operation. I may comment here that although using non-sterilized instruments is not restricted to female circumcision, but is also common in male circumcision, the reason I mention it here is that it is currently common in Sudan and other countries.36
4. It may result in sterility. If it does not and the woman concerned gets pregnant, delivery will be difficult, and will have to be surgical.
5. As Dr Salah Abu Bakr37 says, female circumcision has adverse effects on the urinary system, and may cause a urinary fistula, which causes, in turn, retention of the urine and the menstrual blood. He notes other possible complications including inflammation in other organs, such as in the cervix of the uterus, which is known as a uterine ulcer, or in the endometrium (inner lining of the womb).
When all is taken into consideration, since female circumcision involves these certain and possible hazards, there is no doubt that it is better not to do it. If there is need to remove something that is oversized, it may be removed, but the person who removes it should avoid any excess.
Ibn al-Haj says in Al-madkhal: "There are different views concerning women, whether circumcision should be performed for them in general or distinction is to be made between women of the east, in whose case it should be applied, and women of the west, in whose case there is no need for it, because, unlike women of the east, they do not have the additional flap of skin which is supposed to be cut"
We need to remove something that is oversized, it may be removed, but the person who removes it should avoid any excess.
Syaikh Nashir Al Albaani in his book Tamamul Minnah, in the Chapter Sunnah Fitrah "According to the preferable opinion, which were the Jumhur Ulama(Majority), such as: Malik, Syafi'i and Ahmad - and the view of Imam Ibnul Qayyim Al Jauziyyah is Wajib(Fardhu 'ain). There were 15 Dalil(sources) which supported this view.

As ye who showed good skill in medical an all, your knowledge must reach the positive side of circumcision, because it showed that the mistakes of circumcision of women began with the excessive cutting, beyond measures, the minority said it is Sunnah, and not Fardhu.
This is important as it could act as catalyst in bed relationship(husband-wife).
the mistakes of circumcision of women only began with the excessive cutting, which is done beyond measures


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

[ninetrey]

esselamu aleikum wa rahetulah wa barakatu

i have some questions too

1) who said that muhammad (sas) was 80 years old?? as far as i know
was he born in 570 and died in 632 so that makes him 62 right??

2) is it really possible to circumsize onesself with and axe because
im thinking about doing it inschallah!

3) is there any hadith about muhammad (sas) saying that circumsizing is
prescribed for muslims) ?