If Iran/Arabs conquered Israel?

Supposing the Iranians (or Arabs) did manage to destroy Israel, what would the actually do with it then? They would end up being faced with a massive insurgency problem, what with pretty much the entire population strongly resenting them, and they would also have to deal with Palestinians and Israelis fighting it out over houses, land etc. If Israel were to be destroyed, its conquerors would hardly be able to hold on to it.

Fishman said:

Supposing the Iranians (or Arabs) did manage to destroy Israel, what would the actually do with it then? They would end up being faced with a massive insurgency problem, what with pretty much the entire population strongly resenting them, and they would also have to deal with Palestinians and Israelis fighting it out over houses, land etc. If Israel were to be destroyed, its conquerors would hardly be able to hold on to it.

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They wouldn't do anything with it. They would be too busy cleaning up the post-nuclear mess at home.

The Iranians are only making noises because they know it annoys the Americans. Like the Arab nations in the Middle East, they didn't give a d**n about the Palestians until it became politically expedient.

Trumble said:

Like the Arab nations in the Middle East, they didn't give a d**n about the Palestians until it became politically expedient.

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Thats a bit unfair. There is no reason to assume that any Muslim outrage (including that of leaders) is not genuine.

fish man, if Israel were defeated, i dont believe there would be a massive insurgency, because as you say, they are defeated, and Israel does not have millitias or resistence groups, they solely rely on the army, once the army is taken down its basically over for them, maybe a few people here and there with some guns will make problems, but nothing massive, nothing like Iraq, in Iraq many of the army members retreated before battle began, that was the plan, and Iraq is plagued with millitias, and a weak border allowing foreign fighters in. with Israel thats different, their plan is not to retreat before battle, any defeat for them will be a complete defeat of their army heads on.

on top of that i believe most Israelis would eventually leave, Israelis dont have the stomach to deal with such things, already Israelis are panicking big time over small rockets, what do you think will happen when their army is defeated and conquered by enemies? they will all run away and go back to their original homelands: europe, north africa, iran.

but thats not going to happen anyway, Israel's defeat has been foretold in Islamic texts, it will be an all out defeat with no resistence remaining.

The_Prince said:

fish man, if Israel were defeated, i dont believe there would be a massive insurgency, because as you say, they are defeated, and Israel does not have millitias or resistence groups, they solely rely on the army

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Rubbish. The whole Israeli population is a 'militia'. Virtually every adult is a trained soldier; those not in the IDF or reservists usually have been at some stage. There's an assault rifle in every home. It would be the best trained guerrilla army in history, as well as one of the most highly motivated.

fish man, if Israel were defeated, i dont believe there would be a massive insurgency, because as you say, they are defeated, and Israel does not have millitias or resistence groups, they solely rely on the army, once the army is taken down its basically over for them, maybe a few people here and there with some guns will make problems, but nothing massive, nothing like Iraq, in Iraq many of the army members retreated before battle began, that was the plan, and Iraq is plagued with millitias, and a weak border allowing foreign fighters in. with Israel thats different, their plan is not to retreat before battle, any defeat for them will be a complete defeat of their army heads on.

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Israel began as an insurgency though, one against the British. And yeah, the army probably does plan to stand off in conventional warfare in the event of something like this happening, there would also be as you said the civilians with guns attacking. Israeli women are trained in the armed forces, and settler's kids have probably had a bit of practice with their dads shooting at Palestinians, so it's not like it will be just the men either. They might begin using bomb attacks again as well.
Every single conquered or defeated people in modern history (post 1945)has caused a big insurgency, with a few exceptions of course but I doubt the highly nationalistic Israelis will be one of those.

on top of that i believe most Israelis would eventually leave, Israelis dont have the stomach to deal with such things, already Israelis are panicking big time over small rockets, what do you think will happen when their army is defeated and conquered by enemies? they will all run away and go back to their original homelands: europe, north africa, iran.

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Yeah, probably. But the will still want to return to their homeland and begin pressuring western countries to intervene, like in Tibet. And a few will probably stay, such as Jews that were always there before the Zionists. But then again, they did get on with Muslim rulers pretty well before the 20th century.
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The_Prince said:

Israelis dont have the stomach to deal with such things, already Israelis are panicking big time over small rockets, what do you think will happen when their army is defeated and conquered by enemies?

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.... and that is perhaps the biggest load of deluded nonsense I've ever seen on these forums. You REALLY need to study some history.

^ you need some manners. you really do :-/

Trumble said:

Rubbish. The whole Israeli population is a 'militia'. Virtually every adult is a trained soldier; those not in the IDF or reservists usually have been at some stage. There's an assault rifle in every home. It would be the best trained guerrilla army in history, as well as one of the most highly motivated.

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then i guess we will wipe them all out, the ones who fight back that is, as the hadith states. it will happen one day.

Trumble said:

.... and that is perhaps the biggest load of deluded nonsense I've ever seen on these forums. You REALLY need to study some history.

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history has nothing to do with today, times have changed, israelis are the biggest chickens on this planet, one rocket attack and 500,000 people go into bunkers, who are you kidding?

and if you want history lets talk history, what did Jews do against the Nazis? yeah enlighten me you buddhist, what did the grandparents of modern israelis do back against the Nazis?????????

the Israeli millitias back in the day were only tough guys because the Arab Inhabitants were not trained fighters, they were farmers, they hardly had any weapons or knowledge in fighting, such as my grandparents, so no, you go learn history you silly monkey, instead of beefing up the past Israeli millitia as some tough army.

Ramlah said:

^ you need some manners. you really do :-/

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no, the buddhist himself needs to study history, the Israeli millitias which operated in Palestine were trained fighters, recieving weapons etc etc, the Arabs of the land were not fighters, they were farmers, no real good weapons, no training, no nothing, which is why these israeli millitias had success and seemed to be strong. once the israelis are facing a stronger enemy, and are the under-dogs, they will cower and hide like dogs, and you want proof? well look no further than Hitler, perhaps this buddhist trumble will englighten us on what happened, go on trumble, enlighten us on the mighty jewish resistence against Nazi germany, go on, go google it and come with some links.

Supposing the Iranians (or Arabs) did manage to [conquor] Israel

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According to the hadiths they will conquor it, but then the real test would start. According to the hadiths, people [muslims or arabs] will forget about Mecca and Madina.

Perhaps "IF" Israel was wiped off the map then Hamas would secure 1/3 of Palestinian land mass back, so I guess Hamas would then move the rocket attacks onto Jordon who currently occupy the other 2/3..........

Perhaps, a resurgent PLO would liberate it from Jordan & Egypt since the PLO formed 3 years before Israil's existence, I often wonder who they were planning to liberate Palestinia from at a time when Israil was not in existense.

Originally Posted by The_Prince
Israelis dont have the stomach to deal with such things, already Israelis are panicking big time over small rockets, what do you think will happen when their army is defeated and conquered by enemies?

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It's not as if the Arab league has not tried many many times to destroy Israel totally, only to totally failed. The Arab Leagues attacked Israel the very first day it came into existence and have tried another 2 or 3 times only to lose land and valuable oil fields, which of course in return for peace Israel handed back. Afterall, Isarael captured the oil fields, handed them back to the countries that tried to eliminate them.

I have to say, If the UK voted in the BNP and the country went to the dogs, we would only have ourselves to blame.........

Fishman said:

Supposing the Iranians (or Arabs) did manage to destroy Israel, what would the actually do with it then? They would end up being faced with a massive insurgency problem, what with pretty much the entire population strongly resenting them, and they would also have to deal with Palestinians and Israelis fighting it out over houses, land etc. If Israel were to be destroyed, its conquerors would hardly be able to hold on to it.

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I would turn it into an islamic state for muslims, dump all the israeli's into the gaza prison, i mean gaza strip etc

The_Prince said:

fish man, if Israel were defeated, i dont believe there would be a massive insurgency, because as you say, they are defeated, and Israel does not have millitias or resistence groups, they solely rely on the army, once the army is taken down its basically over for them, maybe a few people here and there with some guns will make problems, but nothing massive, nothing like Iraq, in Iraq many of the army members retreated before battle began, that was the plan, and Iraq is plagued with millitias, and a weak border allowing foreign fighters in. with Israel thats different, their plan is not to retreat before battle, any defeat for them will be a complete defeat of their army heads on.

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Probably true.

But, I have another theory about Israel. Here are my own thoughts and I can not blame or attribute them to anybody else.

I see Israel being in a symbiotic relationship with Palestine. It can not exist without Palestine and would not have lasted without the Palestinian people. War with Palestinians is the cohesive force that binds Israel together. Without fear of a Palestinian uprising, the European Jewish invaders would have left.

Paradoxicaly the defeat of Gaza and of the West Bank by Israel, would most likely destroy Israel. Without the supposed threat there would be no justification for further financial assistance from the West. Without Palestinian labor there would be no manual industry, without mutual fear there would be no cohesive binding force to unify the Israelis.

on top of that i believe most Israelis would eventually leave, Israelis dont have the stomach to deal with such things, already Israelis are panicking big time over small rockets, what do you think will happen when their army is defeated and conquered by enemies? they will all run away and go back to their original homelands: europe, north africa, iran.

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The only point I question is where would they go back to? Past history shows they were not welcome in the countries they left and faced the same treatment they now give to the Palestinians.

but thats not going to happen anyway, Israel's defeat has been foretold in Islamic texts, it will be an all out defeat with no resistence remaining.

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Defeat is inevitable for them. In the meantime we need to do what we can to help our brothers and sisters in Palestine. Help in the sense of physical aid, food, water, shelter, health care, education, electricity etc.

Military aid only in the sense of clear defense and no assistance for any aggression or retaliation, that would only prolong the end of Israel as a Nation. Without a Palestinian threat, Israel can not exist. We need to stop feeding that fire and feed the fires that will serve the Palestinians alone.

Trumble said:

Rubbish. The whole Israeli population is a 'militia'. Virtually every adult is a trained soldier; those not in the IDF or reservists usually have been at some stage. There's an assault rifle in every home. It would be the best trained guerrilla army in history, as well as one of the most highly motivated.

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HAHAHA - what a joke!. Just like they got smahsed in Lebanon. Just like the US, European, Canadian etc. armies with all their high-tech weapons, training, B-52s, depleted Uranium shells etc. can't even defeat the Taliban who probably have sticks and stones.

Imagine Trumble, if the Taliban had one F-16 fighter (or a tank) - they could probably take over the whole world - but of course the whole world knows that is the U.S. policy never theirs because they have never invaded any other lands like the U.S and friends.

S1aveofA11ah said:

HAHAHA - what a joke!. Just like they got smahsed in Lebanon. Just like the US, European, Canadian etc. armies with all their high-tech weapons, training, B-52s, depleted Uranium shells etc. can't even defeat the Taliban who probably have sticks and stones.

Imagine Trumble, if the Taliban had one F-16 fighter (or a tank) - they could probably take over the whole world - but of course the whole world knows that is the U.S. policy never theirs because they have never invaded any other lands like the U.S and friends.

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They got smashed because like western countries the Israelis are good at conventional wars where they get to use all their powerful hardware and huge numbers to maximum effect, but not very good at fighting the low-intensity conflicts, guerilla wars and insurgencies that are part of fifth-generation warfare. If Israel engaged Hezbollah on equal terms, there would have been no contest, and Hezbollah knew this.

Chances are that if the Taliban did get a tank or an F16 they would loose even more badly than they have, since those things need to be used in open warfare, and engaging in open war is not what you do if you are outnumbered and outmatched.

Fishman said:

They got smashed because like western countries the Israelis are good at conventional wars where they get to use all their powerful hardware and huge numbers to maximum effect, but not very good at fighting the low-intensity conflicts, guerilla wars and insurgencies that are part of fifth-generation warfare. If Israel engaged Hezbollah on equal terms, there would have been no contest, and Hezbollah knew this.

Chances are that if the Taliban did get a tank or an F16 they would loose even more badly than they have, since those things need to be used in open warfare, and engaging in open war is not what you do if you are outnumbered and outmatched.

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Where on Earth are you getting this 'they lost' idea from?. The whole world knows the US and allies have been utterly humilated by the Taliban. They are sending 30,000 more troops to save face (shifting them from Iraq of all places!) after eight odd years of trying to dismantle the Taliban regime and have not succeeded yet.

They haven't won the war Fishman - they are loosing it badly - so bad in fact they recently wanted to negotiate a deal with their enemy, the Taliban.

In fact latest reports indicate that even non-Taliban Afghans are turning against the U.S. as they see the atrocities the Superpower (I mean X-Superpower with an economy heading back to medival times) is committing. It is not always about numbers of dead - its about the objective of the war e.g. to win some land, kill a leader, etc.

They are fighting a war they cannot win. Even the military commanders have gone on record saying this. Due to the sheer effort and persistency alone the Taliban have won.

Anyway I won't argue with you on this - not my style - maybe someone can do a Poll on the Afghanistan war. Most reports are confirming:

"Afgahnistan where Empires go to die".

S1aveofA11ah said:

HAHAHA - what a joke!. Just like they got smahsed in Lebanon. Just like the US, European, Canadian etc. armies with all their high-tech weapons, training, B-52s, depleted Uranium shells etc. can't even defeat the Taliban who probably have sticks and stones.

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We are (or at least I am) talking about a scenario where the Israelis form the guerilla army, not the one with the tanks and the planes. Such a force is, and always has been, notoriously difficult to defeat, be it the Vietcong, Hezbollah, the Taliban, or numerous others.

Israel likes carpet bombing no more no less, their weapons are nothing more than funneled from 'remorseful Germans' and American taxes.. and they hardly have a 'motivational point' to begin with between 15% and 37% of Israelis identify themselves as either agnostics or atheists.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Israel

for a 'Jewish state' that has got to be a huge disadvantage.. after all were it not for deluded religious reasons, what are those Ashkenazis doing there? less than 5% of Israel is actually Arabic or Sephardi in origin!

You have to have a sort of 'moto' for warfare-- in other words what are you dying for?
for Americans for a while it was 'freedom fries' and 'democracy' but of course that didn't pan true and I think maybe just now folks are realizing that maybe it really wasn't worth it to die for freedom fries...
the reasons Muslims are willing to die is obvious, and it isn't something that can be pried out of them, even with the most super skilled hate websites or image defamation .. in fact it rings true the verse
[Yusufali 8:36] The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-