Difference between Kaffirs and Non-Muslims

[rpwelton]

I thought I would bring up a point I heard in a lecture last week, and that is definition of "disbeliever".

Many tend to think that anyone who is not Muslim is a disbeliever, and most people are especially quick to call every non-Muslim in the West kaffirs. From what I understand, this is not exactly correct.

A disbeliever is someone who hears the message clearly and rejects it.

A non-Muslim is someone who simply is not Muslim. They may have never heard the message. Upon hearing it, they may or may not choose to believe.

So while a disbeliever is a non-Muslim, a non-Muslim is not necessarily a disbeliever.

Am I correct in this understanding? If so, I believe people should take more care when labeling people because many times Muslims are quick to label everyone in the US as kaffirs, and I think only a small percentage of people have a clear, correct picture of Islam.

[islamirama]

Who has not heard about Islam in today's world? with Western kuffar's war on Islam, only people that have not heard about Islam are some tribes living in jungles. If you heard about Islam then either you can look into it and study about it or you can believe your gov't and stay ignorant. Post 9-11 the convert rate to Islam in US tripled because people wanted to see for themselves what the Quran says and found the Truth instead of the media lies of "kill all infidels" and propaganda.

It's not they don't know about Islam, everyone does. They just choose to remain ignorant and believe what is spoon fed to them rather then get of their lazy couch potato behind and go read the facts.

As for the kuffar vs non-muslim concept. In arabic, there is no such word as "non-Muslim", either you are a beleiver (muslim) or a disbeliever (kuffar). Now what some do say is that Kuffar can't be applied to the People of the Book because they do believe in Allah and the message sent to them. But Allah says:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

So even the people of the book are kuffars (non-beleivers) because of the above verse. If you look at christianity as well, there is no such thing as believer or non-christian, there is believer and hethen. Same thing with Judaism, either you are a believer or a gentile, not non-jew.

[rpwelton]

Who has not heard about Islam in today's world? with Western kuffar's war on Islam, only people that have not heard about Islam are some tribes living in jungles. If you heard about Islam then either you can look into it and study about it or you can believe your gov't and stay ignorant. Post 9-11 the convert rate to Islam in US tripled because people wanted to see for themselves what the Quran says and found the Truth instead of the media lies of "kill all infidels" and propaganda.

It's not they don't know about Islam, everyone does. They just choose to remain ignorant and believe what is spoon fed to them rather then get of their lazy couch potato behind and go read the facts.

As for the kuffar vs non-muslim concept. In arabic, there is no such word as "non-Muslim", either you are a beleiver (muslim) or a disbeliever (kuffar). Now what some do say is that Kuffar can't be applied to the People of the Book because they do believe in Allah and the message sent to them. But Allah says:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

So even the people of the book are kuffars (non-beleivers) because of the above verse. If you look at christianity as well, there is no such thing as believer or non-christian, there is believer and hethen. Same thing with Judaism, either you are a believer or a gentile, not non-jew.

Yes, obviously people have heard of Islam. But how do they hear about it? Through CNN, Fox News, etc. People have the option of going out and seeking Islam, but how do they know they're getting reliable information? Do a search on the internet or go to a bookstore and there is a flood of biased, anti-Islamic information out there. A non-muslim might pick up the book "The Truth About Muhammad" by Robert Spencer and think that it's a true biography. If you go to Barnes and Noble you will find more than half of the books there speaking against Islam in some ways. There are also many books written by "ex-Muslims", so because the author has a Muslim name, people think it's an authentic account of Islam. All of the great Islamic books written by good, pious authors seem to never make it into those stores.

The point I'm trying to make is that we share a responsibility with the non-Muslims in educating them about Islam. They have to do their part and want to listen with an open mind, but we have to provide the right information. I think too many people just think that Americans have "heard the message" because they watch CNN, but this is not the case. We have to do our part, and they have to do theirs.

I'm not trying to sympathize with them, but if we're going to be successful in our dawah we have to realize that we need to make a strong effort to get the true message of Islam out there. Insha Allah I hope to educate more people around me about Islam, because I don't think you're going to have a 100 million people actively going out to seek Islam. I mean, how many Americans can point out their city on a map or tell you where Iraq is? But just because the society as a whole may be painfully ignorant on world matters does not mean they have to be ignorant about Islam.

The government of the US and the people who run Fox News and the publishing companies that produce books by Robert Spencer and give Daniel Pipes a forum to talk are the ones we should hold a grudge against, not the America people (for the most part). Let's do our part and spread the goodness of Islam towards them before we start labeling people and watch them walk into the fires of hell on Judgment Day (may Allah SWT save us from that). If they receive the message and reject it, fine. But let them hear the truth.

[Umar001]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

I do not have the evidence at the moment so I wont say anything but a question.

If you are right in the stance above, does this change how we are to deal with such individuals in this world? I.e. Marriage laws etc? (Specially since we do not know what is in the heart)

Br.al-Habeshi

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Yanal]

Asalam A'lakum Warakmatulah Wabarkatuh.
I also do not have evidence . But I think I don't get the question but I will try to make it easier here for any one who has an answer. You're saying that " A non Muslim
Is a person who never probably heard the Quran and a disbeliever is a Muslim who does not practice upon the five pillars of Islam." Thats what you are saying but what's the question after that explaining?

[doorster]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

I do not have the evidence at the moment so I wont say anything but a question.

If you are right in the stance above, does this change how we are to deal with such individuals in this world? I.e. Marriage laws etc? (Specially since we do not know what is in the heart)

Br.al-Habeshi

wa alikum salam Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakat

Marriage laws are very clearly defined already regarding ahl e kitaab, so there is no need for any consultation/or new ruling. all he is saying is that we should stop raving and ranting. if someone is professing to be a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim, we are bound to accept their word (until their actions belie & refute their claim) unlike a certain member of this forum who is issuing blanket decrees labelling anyone he hates or who refuses to tolerate his tantrums or never praises his incessant copy/pasting, a kafir or monafiq as he did yesterday to me on this forum for the umpteenth time!

:w:

to summarise:
All kufaar are non Muslim, all non-Muslim are NOT kafir, for you cannot hide something of which you have no real knowledge of or you have already been classified as people of the book (with exception of mushriks)

[Umar001]

[/I]wa alikum salam Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakat

Marriage laws are very clearly defined already regarding ahl e kitaab, so there is no need for any consultation/or new ruling. all he is saying is that we should stop raving and ranting. if someone is professing to be a Christian or a jew or a Muslim, we are bound to accept their word (until their actions refute their claim) unlike a certain member of this forum who is issuing blanket decrees labelling anyone he hates, a kafir or monafiq as he did yesterday to me on this forum for the umpteenth time!

:w:

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

Akhi, what I am focusing on is this, the brother said, "So while a disbeliever is a non-Muslim, a non-Muslim is not necessarily a disbeliever." So I am asking, if this is true, how do we treat these people in this world, if not Muslim and not non-Muslim then what?

Br.al-Habeshi

[doorster]

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

Akhi, what I am focusing on is this, the brother said, "So while a disbeliever is a non-Muslim, a non-Muslim is not necessarily a disbeliever." So I am asking, if this is true, how do we treat these people in this world, if not Muslim and not non-Muslim then what?

Br.al-Habeshi

:) jazak Allah khair wa janat e firdous

forgive me for I get confused with English terms.

but if we use words like Muslim, kafir, mushrik and ahl e kitaab, then things explain themselves since there is precedence in sunnat e rasul so we simply follow that

:w:

[rpwelton]

I'm not speaking about treating people in a legal sense; I think Shari'a makes it clear that there are three categories: Muslim, People of the Book and Disbeliever.

What I am saying is that often times people are too quick to label all of America or the West as disbelievers, and in doing so this hinders the effort of dawah. They feel that because Islam is plastered all over CNN, anyone who is not a Muslim has rejected Islam. This is simply not true in all cases. We need to give people an opportunity to hear the truth about Islam and then decide for themselves.

I am by no means looking to create new categories for people in shari'a or how they should be dealt with in accordance with Islamic Law. I'm merely speaking from a dawah point of view.

Sorry to cause any confusion.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

It's good to see someone thinking about how the Muslims present their message.

I hope some good comes of it. :)

Peace

[islamirama]

I'm not speaking about treating people in a legal sense; I think Shari'a makes it clear that there are three categories: Muslim, People of the Book and Disbeliever.

What I am saying is that often times people are too quick to label all of America or the West as disbelievers, and in doing so this hinders the effort of dawah. They feel that because Islam is plastered all over CNN, anyone who is not a Muslim has rejected Islam. This is simply not true in all cases. We need to give people an opportunity to hear the truth about Islam and then decide for themselves.

I am by no means looking to create new categories for people in shari'a or how they should be dealt with in accordance with Islamic Law. I'm merely speaking from a dawah point of view.

Sorry to cause any confusion.

The fact of the matter is, if you are not a Muslim then you a kuffar regardless of you rejecting the message or not getting it yet. On J-Day the Muslims will stand together as one Ummah and other nations will stand as their own nations. There won't be any groups of so called "non-Muslims who haven't rejected but haven't accepted either yet." nor will it matter if they received the message yet or not when the angels in the grave ask them who is their Lord and who is their Messenger. Until one says the Sahadah and becomes a Muslim, they are a kuffar (disbeliever), it doesn't get any clear than that.

[Banu_Hashim]

Yes, obviously people have heard of Islam. But how do they hear about it? Through CNN, Fox News, etc. People have the option of going out and seeking Islam, but how do they know they're getting reliable information? Do a search on the internet or go to a bookstore and there is a flood of biased, anti-Islamic information out there. A non-muslim might pick up the book "The Truth About Muhammad" by Robert Spencer and think that it's a true biography. If you go to Barnes and Noble you will find more than half of the books there speaking against Islam in some ways. There are also many books written by "ex-Muslims", so because the author has a Muslim name, people think it's an authentic account of Islam. All of the great Islamic books written by good, pious authors seem to never make it into those stores.

The point I'm trying to make is that we share a responsibility with the non-Muslims in educating them about Islam. They have to do their part and want to listen with an open mind, but we have to provide the right information. I think too many people just think that Americans have "heard the message" because they watch CNN, but this is not the case. We have to do our part, and they have to do theirs.

I'm not trying to sympathize with them, but if we're going to be successful in our dawah we have to realize that we need to make a strong effort to get the true message of Islam out there. Insha Allah I hope to educate more people around me about Islam, because I don't think you're going to have a 100 million people actively going out to seek Islam. I mean, how many Americans can point out their city on a map or tell you where Iraq is? But just because the society as a whole may be painfully ignorant on world matters does not mean they have to be ignorant about Islam.

The government of the US and the people who run Fox News and the publishing companies that produce books by Robert Spencer and give Daniel Pipes a forum to talk are the ones we should hold a grudge against, not the America people (for the most part). Let's do our part and spread the goodness of Islam towards them before we start labeling people and watch them walk into the fires of hell on Judgment Day (may Allah SWT save us from that). If they receive the message and reject it, fine. But let them hear the truth.

I agree. People need to understand Islam fully, to be able to reject it fully thereby earning the label of "disbeliever" or "kaafir". It's our responsibility to reach out to those who may not have had the opportunity to see the truth and peace of Islam before rejecting them. InshAllah those people will be lead to the right path by good examples of Muslims, and their own authentic research.