She Was Asleep. I Kissed Her. She Awoke.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Make sure to read the explanation following the poem.

Please enjoy the following poem by Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb al-Māliki al-Baghdādi - (born 362h in Baghdad and passed away in Cairo, 422h). He was the student of the scholar Imām al-Bāqillāni and the Shaykh of the Māliki madhab. Al-Khatīb al-Baghdādi took from him and considered him to be the most knowledgeable of the Mālikis of his time.

قال القاضي عبد الوهاب المالكي
Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb al-Māliki said:

ونائمةٍ قبَّلتها فتنبَّهَتْ … وقالَتْ تعالَوْا فاطلُبُوا اللِّصَّ بالحدِّ

She was asleep. I kissed her. She awoke.
She shouted, “Help! Establish the law against this thief!”

فقلتُ لها إنِّي فَدَيتكِ غاصبٌ … وما حكمُوا في غاصبٍ بسوَى الرَّدِّ

So I said to her, “But I sacrificed myself for you! I took it by force I admit!
But they didn’t rule on the Usurper other than it is to be given back!

خُذيها وكُفِّي عنْ أَثيمٍ ظلامة … وإن أَنتِ لم ترضَيْ فأَلف على عدِّ

Take it and stop punishing this oppressive soul!
If that doesn’t satisfy you, then take a thousand instead!

فقالتْ قصاصٌ يشهدُ العقلُ أَنَّه … على كبدِ الجاني أَلذُّ من الشَّهْدِ

She said, “This kind of punishment, everyone bears witness no doubt
That it is sweeter for the Criminal than honey itself!

فباتَتْ يَميني وهي هميانُ خصرها … وباتَتْ يَساري وهي واسطَةُ العقدِ

So my right hand spent the night and it was her belt.
And my left hand spent the night and it was her necklace.

فقالتْ أَلم أخْبَرْ بأَنَّكَ زاهدٌ … فقلتُ بلَى ما زلتُ أَزهدُ في الزُّهْدِ

She said, “Was I not told that you were a pious man?!”
So I said, “Indeed! I am still a pious man when it comes to piety!”

Easy tiger.

This wonderful little poem needs a little bit of explanation so here goes:

She was asleep. I kissed her. She awoke.She shouted, “Help! Establish the law against this thief!”

He goes up to a sleeping girl (who could be anyone, that doesn’t really matter here) and kisses her. It wakes her up and in anger she calls for someone to grab this criminal and give him the hadd (a prescribed punishment). She’s clearly angry and decides to call him a thief for what he’s done, probably because she can’t think at that moment which kind of crime he’s really perpetrated.

So I said to her, “But I sacrificed myself for you! I took it by force I admit!
But they didn’t rule on the Usurper other than it is to be given back.

He then responds and says, “Look, be fair. I did all this for you! I haven’t stolen anything so I can’t be a thief and therefore you can’t ask for a hadd against me can you?”

He wants to convince her that if he has done a crime, then it’s ghasb. Ghasb is “to usurp” and even that isn’t a very accurate translation. Ghasb is to forcefully and oppressively take something without “stealing” (sariqah) it as such, robbing it (tashlīh), pick-pocketing it (nashl) or harming the other party physically (qat‘ al-tarīq etc). All of these four categories have different punishments and likewise ghasb is a fifth category of many possible further categories. Now I know you’re thinking, “but they’re all the same thing aren’t they?!” but in the Sharī‘ah, the scholars differed much over these separate categories and the punishments associated to each type. For example, a pick-pocket takes something which isn’t guarded as such, whereas a thief who gets his hand cut must have stolen something which is properly guarded or closed off to the public according to the majority of the scholars such as breaking and entering into your home at night. The other categories have some force and violence attached to the crime.

As for ghasb: sometimes it can be fraudulent i.e. you ‘blag’ your boundary post and take someone else’s land or more practically another example is if I’m in the street and I shout you down and just snatch something off you whilst you’re holding it, but I don’t run off or anything, then you’ve got a better idea now of what ghasb is and how it’s different to the other categories of “stealing”.

The main thing to understand is that the mass majority of scholars have agreed that the Usurper has no punishment other than that he must return the item he usurped and then make tawbah. Others said he must ask for pardon from the aggrieved party as well, but other than that, the State does not get involved.

So, what our cheeky but clever Faqih romantic has decided to do is to ‘play’ this woman he’s just kissed. And he tells her, “Look, what I’ve done is only ghasb! Okay, I took a kiss from you by force - but I don’t know why you’re asking for the sword! All the scholars have agreed that the only punishment for the Usurper is that he gives back that what he’s taken!”

Take it and stop punishing this oppressive soul!
If that doesn’t satisfy you, then take a thousand instead!

He’s clearly got so far using his wits and now his real cheekiness comes out. Appealing to her sense of humour and excitement, he’s actually asking her to kiss him just once to take back what he has taken from her in usurpation. And like every artful dodger, he’s now turned the tables and assumed the role of the aggrieved party, the underdog, the miskeen, the oppressed one!

He then goes further and says, “If you’re not happy with what the scholars demand (i.e. like for like is given back in ghasb), then I tell you what, take extra from me as my punishment, no problem! In fact, kiss me a thousand times as my punishment!”

She said, “This kind of punishment, everyone bears witness no doubt
That it is sweeter for the Criminal than honey itself!

She’s clearly warming to this cheeky scholar now, and is only stating the obvious here that, “There is no way I’m going to give you exactly what you wanted all along! You call that a punishment?!”

But it’s far too late now, and she’s fallen for his charm; if you’re sixteen or under, please close this page now. Thanks.

So my right hand spent the night and it was her belt.
And my left hand spent the night and it was her necklace.

Is my central heating on too high or what?

Here is Arab poetry at its most daring: our romantic has completed his seduction of his prey and has now spent the night with her. Not just that, but what is being described (poorly in English of course and much more sensitively in the Arabic) is how he’s lying next to her and holding her very close, around her waist and very gently across her neck and what on Earth am I doing still talking about this line…

She said, “Was I not told that you were a pious man!”
So I said, “Indeed! I am still a pious man when it comes to piety!”

Perhaps the cleverest line of the poem, which could mean something else but I’ve translated it this way: as we said before, the woman has completely fallen for this chap and is now teasing him, “I thought I was told that you were an ascetic/pious man (Zāhid).” Normally, zuhd or ascetism as practiced by the masters of Tasawwuf is to completely renounce the dunya, almost like a form of monasticism but without that kind of extremism. But clearly she is claiming that enjoying oneself with women in such a way would be against the way of zuhd as such.

So our star of the show dead-pans a response playing on the fact that zuhd doesn’t have any agreed upon Shar‘i definition, decides to give the word his own definition i.e. piety and thus being good, praying, fasting and all those things that one would expect day to day from an ‘Alim – but don’t try and put the fun that I’m having with women in that category!

So there we are.

This poem was written by the inimitable Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb al-Māliki al-Baghdādi (rahimullāh); he was one of the famous Imams of Iraq and from the leaders of Ahl’l-Sunnah. He was the student of the scholar Imām al-Bāqillāni and the Shaykh of the Māliki madhab. Al-Khatīb al-Baghdādi took from him and considered him to be the most knowledgeable of the Mālikis of his time.

He is most famous for his commentary to Ibn Abi Zayd’s masterpiece al-Risālah. Amongst many other books, he also has a commentary to the Mudawwana. Many quoted from Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb especially Ibn Hajr, Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim, who uses him extensively as a reference in his Ijtimā‘ al-Juyūsh’l-Islāmiyyah.

He was not only a master of fiqh but a great poet, with over 165 books attributed to him. His intellect, eloquence and clear skill in the Arabic language and poetry was much admired in his time and until this day.
Ibn Khallikān reported in his Wafāyat’l-A‘yān the circumstances of the death of Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb. He had suffered for many years in Baghdad, experiencing very difficult circumstances. Then he moved to Egypt where he was warmly welcomed and lavishly supported by the wealthy and good people. All new to him, he wrote of his happiness in various poems. Not too long after, he had an opportunity to eat some quality food that he had desired for a long time but he became deathly ill from it straight away. It was reported that as he was in his last moments, he said,

“Lā ilāha illallāh! Now that we are finally starting to live, we have died!”

Miskeen.

May Allah have mercy upon this great Imam’s soul and grant him the highest part of Paradise! He was born 362h in Baghdad and he left us in Cairo, 422h (see al-Bidāyah w’l-Nihāyah and Siyar al-A‘lām for more detailed information).

And the point of all this?

Well, just imagine that someone like Shaykh Shu‘ayb al-Arna‘ūt said something like the above poem, or Shaykh Muhammad Hasan al-Dadu, or Shaykh Muhammad al-‘Awwāmah, or Shaykh Taqi al-Usmani, or Shaykh Muhammad Mukhtār al-Shinqītī, or Shaykh Ibn Bāz. Or anyone for that matter.

My goodness. There’d be uproar. From the ignorant that is.

Firstly, have no doubt that these great and noble scholars of today wouldn’t reach half the standard of someone like Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb al-Māliki, neither in ‘ilm or ‘amal.

So therefore secondly, let it just be a little reminder to everyone showing the vastness of our heritage and a reminder to the extremists to just take it easy a little bit, and a reminder to the modernists and “progressives” that we have no need for you to bring into our pure Islam all the new dreams you have in your inferiority-complex induced sleep in the houses of your Masters of disbelief and heresy.

Alhamdulillāh ‘alā ni‘mat’l-Islām, wa kafā bihā ni‘mah.

And Allah knows best.

From: http://alternativeentertainment.word...her-she-awoke/

Reference for the actual poem:

For those asking for a reference: this poem can be found in many different biographical books, under the biography of the great Qadhi. Ibn Khallikan quotes it the Wafayah (3/219) and called it “beautiful”. Imam al-Dhahabi says the same quoting it in Siyar (17/431). You’ll find it in al-Dhahirah, in Fawat’l-Wafayat (2/420), in the Tarikh’l-Islam of Imam al-Dhahabi and many other places. Ibn Katheer quotes this poem in Bidayah w’l-Nihayah (12/41) and calls it “wonderful”.

Further explanation:
http://alternativeentertainment.word.../#comment-7062

[Re.TiReD]

Wa'alaykum salam

JazakAllah khayr bro, this is an absolutely amazing piece! It had me a little confused when I first read it but the explanation cleared it up alhamdulillah.

It's really witty and cute!

WassalamuAlaykum

[Ayesha Rana]

Hahaha it's hilarious!

[KashifB]

I would like to ask, if our Prophet sallalaho alaihi wasallam was read this poem, would he like it?

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[Re.TiReD]

Hahaha it's hilarious!

On the contrary my dear, it's rather sweet:statisfie :-[

I would like to ask, if our Prophet sallalaho alaihi wasallam was read this poem, would he like it?

For those of you who are really desperately trying to understand what’s going on and are having major doubts etc, then just think of it that this is the Qadhi’s wife or his slave-girl

read the alternative explanation insha'Allah and dare disagree on the calibre of the poem and written style =P

[crayon]

Ooh yes, I've come across this before, very witty.

[Pk_#2]

Too long can't read it, can someone summarise it for me... =D (Pretty please with a carrot on top)

I thought it was sleeping beauty, the prince kissed her and she woKed up...

[Ansariyah]

I stopped where it said if ur 16 or younger close the page.
May I ask why u posted this here, wen I have seen mods say things like "keep it in ur gender forums, (things that contain stuff that shudnt be in mixed gender areas"?

[S_87]

its one sweet poem :)

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Aww... Cuteee... :D Love stuff liike this... :)

:w:

[alcurad]

:sl:
Firstly, have no doubt that these great and noble scholars of today wouldn’t reach half the standard of someone like Qādhi ‘Abd’l-Wahhāb al-Māliki, neither in ‘ilm or ‘amal.

thnx for sharing:), but I disagree with that^, their knowledge was mostly memorization, very few had a hand in creating fiqh and usool, the rest simply memorized and repeated what the others had said.

[Zahida]

:sl: That was REALLY good................ and different. One however does think of the sins that were committed by both, and how easy it was for him to use his charm and wit to bring this lovely innocent young lady around to his way of thinking!!!!!!:w::D

[Musaafirah]

Ok. Firstly I thought, what am I doing in this thread?
Then read explanation. Then re-read poem.
The dude sounds so bloomin cheeky.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

I stopped where it said if ur 16 or younger close the page.
May I ask why u posted this here, wen I have seen mods say things like "keep it in ur gender forums, (things that contain stuff that shudnt be in mixed gender areas"?

Jazakillah Khayr for your concern Ukhti, allow me to explain Insha'Allaah.

Firstly, I think you should have read onwards or you'll loose the context and the explanation.

I posted it because it's harmless poetry, written by a scholar, and praised by scholars. And it contains an explanation so people don't get an incorrect idea. Secondly, I wanted to make people aware that our Islamic heritage is vast and our scholars were more than people that simply gave fatawa. As the person that wrote the explanation says, if any scholar today were to write such a poem, people would be horrified because they have a ideal picture painted in their minds that scholarship = such and such. Yet scholars who were at a level that none today can even hope to reach, who understood the religion better know where the line is. Honestly, this poem is quite unexplicit and the tip of the iceberg if compared to others poems and even books that some of our greater scholars have written. There's a line, but that line isn't being crossed.

I actually did post this in the Brother's Section a while ago, but came across the thread again and I decided to post this here.

thnx for sharing:), but I disagree with that^, their knowledge was mostly memorization, very few had a hand in creating fiqh and usool, the rest simply memorized and repeated what the others had said.

Barakallah Feek :) There were some scholars who basically made it their goal to memorize and pass along, and there were others who were Faqeehs. The Qadhi is a major faqhi and reference in the Maliki madhab, so I think the brother that explained the poem was referring to that.

:sl: That was REALLY good................ and different. One however does think of the sins that were committed by both, and how easy it was for him to use his charm and wit to bring this lovely innocent young lady around to his way of thinking!!!!!!:w::D

Think of it as his wife. :) And my favorite part was when he says very slyly:
Take it and stop punishing this oppressive soul!
If that doesn’t satisfy you, then take a thousand instead!

That's just so witty! And I felt strange when I first read it and then I realized that it's only 'different' because unfortunately we don't have access to a majority of what's out there from the works of our scholars due to many reasons like not knowing Arabic etc. Plus sometimes we tend to loose sight, and try to be as strict as possible in our religion thinking that it's closer to piety. Yet, there is room for ease and tolerance in our religion. If you read the second link, he says:

The reality of these people like our poet is that they are the ‘Ulema, and I completely and utterly place my trust in their hands to handle the texts, their meanings and their application to life in a vivid, alive, dynamic and wonderful way. When it’s time to play, we play. When it’s time to get down to things, the fatawa will be there.
[...]
So, the point is that the early pious Muslims really knew what piety meant, what taqwa meant, what ‘ibadah meant, and what life was about and how it could be enjoyed and how culture could be celebrated without not even for one second finding things contradictory.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I would like to ask, if our Prophet sallalaho alaihi wasallam was read this poem, would he like it?

:sl:

Akhi, have you heard of the poem called Baanat Su'ad written by the companion Ka’b ibn Zuhayr (radiyallaahu 'anhu) which he recited to the Prophet (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam) after which the Prophet removed his cloak and gave it to Ka'b? The poem contains praise of a beautiful woman called Su'ad. The sahabi describes the woman in the beginning of the poem including her smell, her arms, her hair and in the end it contains praise of the Prophet (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam). Though, many scholars have said that the hadeeth that speaks of this is weak, the scholars still used the poem for a variety of reasons including fiqh, hadith, adaab and language. Insha'allaah take the time to read the explanation given by the brother that tranlsated this poem, it clears up the issue.

At the end of the day, we have to realize that it is only poetry.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

What an interesting thread. Thank you Abu Sayyad. :)

It definitely seems like a very daring poem.

It reminds me of what is commonly called the greatest 'come to bed' poem in English - Andrew Marvell's 'To his coy mistress'.

I think you're right that there would be uproar if a current Islamic scholar published a poem like this. It's clearly very subtle and its intent could very easily be missed.

Which is partly why I think you're wrong when you say "it's harmless poetry" and "it's only poetry". Poetry can (and has) stirred people to great acts, both good and bad. Look at some propaganda poems from the Nazis or revolutionaries throughout history and you'll see that, as well as all its other effects, poetry can be used to help bring about action.

Peace

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Greetings,

What an interesting thread. Thank you Abu Sayyad. :)

It definitely seems like a very daring poem.

It reminds me of what is commonly called the greatest 'come to bed' poem in English - Andrew Marvell's 'To his coy mistress'.

I think you're right that there would be uproar if a current Islamic scholar published a poem like this. It's clearly very subtle and its intent could very easily be missed.

Which is partly why I think you're wrong when you say "it's harmless poetry" and "it's only poetry". Poetry can (and has) stirred people to great acts, both good and bad. Look at some propaganda poems from the Nazis or revolutionaries throughout history and you'll see that, as well as all its other effects, poetry can be used to help bring about action.

Peace

Hello czgibson,

Thanks for sharing the poem by Andrew Marvell; I found the English quite deep. I think I'm going to have to read it a couple of times more to get it to sink in.

My reasoning behind saying what I said was that when one gets exposed to Arabic poetry, especially the older ones before and after Islaam, it is common to find poems like this written by Arab poets. Many are the poems where a lover describes his beloved and writes out magnificent lines to express his emotions. The language of these poems is so complex and intricate that regardless of their subject matter, they've been used time and again by scholars to teach a variety of subjects, and such poems have been written by major scholars as well. Point being that, they knew the context of it and so did those that heard/read it. I guess that's the reasoning behind the explanation given by the translator - to put the content into the proper perspective.

I agree with you in essence though, poetry can definitely bring about action especially the kind that incites and stirs emotions in the hearts. Though, I don't think this poem falls into that category.

[Re.TiReD]

:salamext:

Lol I was talking about the poem yesterday with piskel over the fone....and then I had a nightmare about it (I'm not kiddin imsad)

But anyway, you can look at the poem in several ways...It could be his wife....some people disagree because if it was his wife she would not have accused him of theft and wouldnt have reacted in such a way....but if you think about it, how witty they both are and how she realised his intent and replies:

فقالتْ قصاصٌ يشهدُ العقلُ أَنَّه … على كبدِ الجاني أَلذُّ من الشَّهْدِ

She said, “This kind of punishment, everyone bears witness no doubt
That it is sweeter for the Criminal than honey itself!

Knowing full well what he wants, its possible that everything they were saying was in jest, and reminds me also of how the prophet (saw) would joke with his wives and was romantic, albeit not in this way. Wallahu A'lam.

Most people when they read the poem think he commited zina etc, I read and and thought it was worth noting that she acussed him of having stolen a kiss....NOT of having comitted zina...which means she was halal for him maybe.

Or it could be that the incident was not true and its a story on the authors part of how even the most pious can fall into temptation sometimes? (Its possible but I dont actually buy this theory of mine for some reason :p)

And the final thing I was thinking about is how the reader is left guessing what the two people actually mean to one another, some of it is ambiguous and cleverly written....to me its saying one thing and one thing only...Love is not always simple and straightforward....its confusing and sometimes catches u unawares....its complicated, just like this poem. And just as you have to think out of the box a little and be open-minded when reading the poem....you have to have the same attitude towards love....and I'm thinking of the thread on love marriages here, you cant brand something so complicated and complex as haram....just because you dont maybe understand or something, wallahu A'lam.

Just read it again and thing about it insha'Allah

WassalamuAlaykum

[alcurad]

as people used to say where I come from:may you be rewarded with a wife, Abu Sayyad:).

[Ansariyah]

:sl:



Jazakillah Khayr for your concern Ukhti, allow me to explain Insha'Allaah.

Firstly, I think you should have read onwards or you'll loose the context and the explanation.

I posted it because it's harmless poetry, written by a scholar, and praised by scholars. And it contains an explanation so people don't get an incorrect idea. Secondly, I wanted to make people aware that our Islamic heritage is vast and our scholars were more than people that simply gave fatawa. As the person that wrote the explanation says, if any scholar today were to write such a poem, people would be horrified because they have a ideal picture painted in their minds that scholarship = such and such. Yet scholars who were at a level that none today can even hope to reach, who understood the religion better know where the line is. Honestly, this poem is quite unexplicit and the tip of the iceberg if compared to others poems and even books that some of our greater scholars have written. There's a line, but that line isn't being crossed.

:wasalamex

Thank's for the explanation. At first I thought, why would u wanna post it up here when u deemed it as inappropriate for 16 Year'olds n under to read it. Why wud people be horrified if Scholars of today wrote anything of that sort? Probably because they don't show us "much" of their human side?

[RaineR]

Too long can't read it, can someone summarise it for me... =D (Pretty please with a carrot on top)

I thought it was sleeping beauty, the prince kissed her and she woKed up...

:rollseyes

abu sayyad thanks for posting in TMZ !!!

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:wasalamex

Thank's for the explanation. At first I thought, why would u wanna post it up here when u deemed it as inappropriate for 16 Year'olds n under to read it. Why wud people be horrified if Scholars of today wrote anything of that sort? Probably because they don't show us "much" of their human side?

:wasalamex

Because we've (in general) never been exposed more than 5% of what is out there from the works of our scholars, so that dictates that people would by default assume that anything that speaks of this and related subjects such as love, romance, culture etc is forbidden. Also because most of us aren't aware of Arabic poetry - that love, romance, beauty, women, battle, bravery, courage are themes present in most poems even if the poem's main point was something else. Like the poem I mentioned above, the Baanat Su'ad starts off by describing a woman named Su'ad and ends with praise of the Prophet (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

:rollseyes

abu sayyad thanks for posting in TMZ !!!

I didn't post there.

[Pk_#2]

:rollseyes

abu sayyad thanks for posting in TMZ !!!

This Abu Sayyad is not the same one on TMZ, Abu Sayyad on TMZ is Yanal on Li (or Islamic bro or something)

Why you quote me? I'm Astaghfirullah.

[~Taalibah~]

Lol, That was umm amazing lol! Jazakallah for sharing that bro.
It was definitely witty and clever.

[Najm]

:salamext:

Lol I was talking about the poem yesterday with piskel over the fone....and then I had a nightmare about it (I'm not kiddin imsad)

But anyway, you can look at the poem in several ways...It could be his wife....some people disagree because if it was his wife she would not have accused him of theft and wouldnt have reacted in such a way....but if you think about it, how witty they both are and how she realised his intent and replies:

فقالتْ قصاصٌ يشهدُ العقلُ أَنَّه … على كبدِ الجاني أَلذُّ من الشَّهْدِ

She said, “This kind of punishment, everyone bears witness no doubt
That it is sweeter for the Criminal than honey itself!

Knowing full well what he wants, its possible that everything they were saying was in jest, and reminds me also of how the prophet (saw) would joke with his wives and was romantic, albeit not in this way. Wallahu A'lam.

Most people when they read the poem think he commited zina etc, I read and and thought it was worth noting that she acussed him of having stolen a kiss....NOT of having comitted zina...which means she was halal for him maybe.

Or it could be that the incident was not true and its a story on the authors part of how even the most pious can fall into temptation sometimes? (Its possible but I dont actually buy this theory of mine for some reason :p)

And the final thing I was thinking about is how the reader is left guessing what the two people actually mean to one another, some of it is ambiguous and cleverly written....to me its saying one thing and one thing only...Love is not always simple and straightforward....its confusing and sometimes catches u unawares....its complicated, just like this poem. And just as you have to think out of the box a little and be open-minded when reading the poem....you have to have the same attitude towards love....and I'm thinking of the thread on love marriages here, you cant brand something so complicated and complex as haram....just because you dont maybe understand or something, wallahu A'lam.

Just read it again and thing about it insha'Allah

WassalamuAlaykum

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Great post uhkti, i tot that too!! Your last paragraph was excellent!!! :-[

The poem is kindda left for the reader to decide, and having "stolen a kiss" i always tot from the momment i read it that its hubby/wifey having fun!!!

Very witty and cleverly constructed poetry!!!

JazakAllah Khair akhi Abu Sayyad!!! :D

although it was posted ages ago in the private section

FiAmaaniAllah

[RaineR]

I didn't post there.

yah..I know i was being sarcastic ,that WAS my point, why didnt you post it there?

[RaineR]

This Abu Sayyad is not the same one on TMZ, Abu Sayyad on TMZ is Yanal on Li (or Islamic bro or something)

Why you quote me? I'm Astaghfirullah.

ooooops sorry..
well this one (:rollseyes) was a reply to ur quote.

and the sentecne (thanks for posting it in TMZ...) was to abu sayyad...
but it looks like its the wrong abu sayyad....sorry:blind:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

subhanallah! a beautiful and sweet poem...

i admire how he wove his 'Ilm with cheek to charm her... that was awfully intelligent on his part! this sums him up nicely.


but i dont understand the point of the actual poem its self. i mean with other poems there is something there..like in the end something happens, or the whole poem is describing something...but with this poem i dont see that there is a "focal point." i just don't get the actual point behind the poem...unless its written so the reader isnt meant to...

He goes up to a sleeping girl (who could be anyone, that doesn’t really matter here)

meh, he could have been thinking of his potential Hoori

May Allah have mercy upon this great Imam’s soul and grant him the highest part of Paradise!

allahumma ameen...

Ibn Katheer quotes this poem in Bidayah w’l-Nihayah (12/41) and calls it “wonderful”.

mashAllah, it looks as if we have some mushy Ulamaa'...

and i agree with the point of the thread!

[Re.TiReD]

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Great post uhkti, i tot that too!! Your last paragraph was excellent!!! :-[

The poem is kindda left for the reader to decide, and having "stolen a kiss" i always tot from the momment i read it that its hubby/wifey having fun!!!

Very witty and cleverly constructed poetry!!!

JazakAllah Khair akhi Abu Sayyad!!! :D

although it was posted ages ago in the private section

FiAmaaniAllah

:wasalamex

Lol JazakAllah khayr akhee. I guess it takes a little thought rather than rashly coming to an incorrect conclusion.

WassalamuAlaykum

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:wasalamex

:salamext:


Lol I was talking about the poem yesterday with piskel over the fone....and then I had a nightmare about it (I'm not kiddin imsad)

But anyway, you can look at the poem in several ways...It could be his wife....some people disagree because if it was his wife she would not have accused him of theft and wouldnt have reacted in such a way....but if you think about it, how witty they both are and how she realised his intent and replies

you now maybe it IS his wifey but he doesn't mention her specifically as not to embarrass her or not to reveal their eerrrr secrets. so he makes it sound like can be aaaany woman. perhaps shes even a fragment of his cheeky but clever Faqih romantic imagination lol :p (dont mind moi, i just cant seem to get over how adorable that description is )
:)

[Abdul Fattah]

Selam aleykum
Kissing a girl like that is not a form of theft but a form of harasment sexual abuse. The opening post describes what "ghasb" means, and this act does not seem to be falling under it. Therefor I wouldn't say the poem is "clever" nor "witty". Rather I would say that the poem spreads ignorance, and encourage people to take romance more importantly then shariah.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

I think some of us are reading too much in to the poem and are completely missing the point. I guess we're all entitled to our opinions so you can hold whatever opinion you want. As for myself, I don't see anything wrong with the poem. Firstly because it was written by a faqeeh whose knowledge and piety are undoubted (and who is praised by many many other scholars), and secondly because the poem itself has been reported and praised by other giant names of Islamic scholarship such as Ibn Khallikan, Imaam ad-Dhahabi, Ibn Katheer and others. I trust these scholars without a second thought and I'm more than content that there is nothing wrong with this poem because of their praise for it. If this poem was spreading ignorance or undermining the Shariah in any way, I very much doubt that they would have called it "beautiful" and "wonderful" and even before that, I don't think they would have included it in their books if it had been written in the first place!

Next point is that it seems the only problem people are having with this poem is that it's written by a Muslim. Arabic poetry is filled with these kinds of things, and honestly this poem is nothing compared to whats out there. Some should check out the Mu'allaqat by Imril Qays which was hung on the Kaaba, much worse and explicit in comparison, yet he was praised by many Companions as one of the best poets of his time.

[S_87]

Selam aleykum
Kissing a girl like that is not a form of theft but a form of harasment sexual abuse. The opening post describes what "ghasb" means, and this act does not seem to be falling under it. Therefor I wouldn't say the poem is "clever" nor "witty". Rather I would say that the poem spreads ignorance, and encourage people to take romance more importantly then shariah.

i dont know how you see it like that, the poem is not saying that whoever 'he' was went up to some strange woman and kissed her. its a clever poem on male-female (lets say husband/wife so we dont assume wrongly) relationship and the theft part could easily have been flirting/teasing on her part just as the rest of the poem seems which is very natural and expected :?

[786rani]

Mahallah...that was a truely compelling poem...aaawwww