Interested in Muslim societies

[Paper]

Hello, I have always been interested in Muslim societies, especially Saudi Arabia, because of the huge differences in comparison to western societies.

I am trying to understand the rules from the perspective of a Saudi living in an Islamic country. I have a list of questions, but I won't ask all at once as some other questions may be answered in the process.

I was wondering why in some of these countries women aren't allowed to drive. I asked my Saudi friend this and he suggested the majority think that women aren't equal and that it was because the majority didn't like the idea of women drivers. He went on to say women would be harassed by men, which would incite religious violations, and so avoidance of these was the main priority. But if this is the only reason, then surely each person within that majority could realise that if the rest of the majority didn't become angry by women drivers, then the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. I am struggling to understand why women shouldn't be treated equally like men. My Saudi friend suggested that I was comparing apples and oranges, but as I see it I am comparing red apples and green apples - to me they only seem mildly different, the differences balancing each other.

Secondly I was wondering about these societies' reaction to the presence of homosexuality. Personally I am indifferent to homosexual persons, and there is a general tolerance of it within western society since it tends to only concern the individuals. Again I asked my Saudi friend, he suggested it was a choice that invoked sin as explained by the Quran. But this doesn't seem right in my mind, why on earth would any sane human being actually make a conscious choice to be homosexual in a Muslim society knowing full well it means rejection, punishment and even death?! Also, homosexuality among animals has been documented, right down to gut worms. Gut worms can't possibly make a conscious choice to be gay! It seems completely counter logical. Either gay people are sane and have no choice or completely insane, in which case what is the purpose of punishing these individuals?

Thanks for reading, I really want to understand how a Muslim sees it

[Dawud_uk]

Hello, I have always been interested in Muslim societies, especially Saudi Arabia, because of the huge differences in comparison to western societies.

I am trying to understand the rules from the perspective of a Saudi living in an Islamic country. I have a list of questions, but I won't ask all at once as some other questions may be answered in the process.

I was wondering why in some of these countries women aren't allowed to drive. I asked my Saudi friend this and he suggested the majority think that women aren't equal and that it was because the majority didn't like the idea of women drivers. He went on to say women would be harassed by men, which would incite religious violations, and so avoidance of these was the main priority. But if this is the only reason, then surely each person within that majority could realise that if the rest of the majority didn't become angry by women drivers, then the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. I am struggling to understand why women shouldn't be treated equally like men. My Saudi friend suggested that I was comparing apples and oranges, but as I see it I am comparing red apples and green apples - to me they only seem mildly different, the differences balancing each other.

Secondly I was wondering about these societies' reaction to the presence of homosexuality. Personally I am indifferent to homosexual persons, and there is a general tolerance of it within western society since it tends to only concern the individuals. Again I asked my Saudi friend, he suggested it was a choice that invoked sin as explained by the Quran. But this doesn't seem right in my mind, why on earth would any sane human being actually make a conscious choice to be homosexual in a Muslim society knowing full well it means rejection, punishment and even death?! Also, homosexuality among animals has been documented, right down to gut worms. Gut worms can't possibly make a conscious choice to be gay! It seems completely counter logical. Either gay people are sane and have no choice or completely insane, in which case what is the purpose of punishing these individuals?

Thanks for reading, I really want to understand how a Muslim sees it

i happen to disagree with the saudi ban on women drivers as it causes more problems with women needing to employ male drivers or go alone in taxis.

your saudi friend if you have reported his views correctly has not explained things very well to you. in islam men and women are equal, but different.

let me explain, are men and women the same physically? no, men are stronger, women however can take more pain than men, if a man was to have to give birth he might well die. men and women are made different physically.

mentally, men and women are different. no matter what western social scientists do they cannot seem to engineer society to get rid of these differences. so women almost always do better at social sciences and men at the more traditional sciences. men are better at maths, women at english.

emotionally, men and women are different and made up for very different roles, women are there to run family and help make society run smoothly, men on the other hand are leaders of the family.

so physically, mentally, emotionally the men and women are different. now if they are so different wouldnt imposing the same rights and responsibilites be an injustice upon them?

for example, in islam the man is the provider, the woman can work if she chooses in a halal environment for but whatever she earns is her own, but whatever the man earns must be spent to support his family.

if you look at this one islamic ruling above you would think islam is unjust to men, however islam is a perfect system in balance with our human nature as your creator knows us best.

so when you say islam is unjust to women what you are doing is looking at a small number of rulings and drawing your conclusion without looking at the whole picture.

men and women are however spiritually equal, and in their rights and responsibilities they balance each other out, different but equal.

now regarding homosexuality, you say you are indifferent but i've got two words to prove your not...

'bum tampax'

that is what old soddomites have to wear as there bodies are not designed to do such disgusting practices, square pegs being put in round holes to take it back to simple terms.

are you still indifferent? i doubt it.

but this is not the main reason we are against it, we are against it as it is against the laws of our creator, he decides for us what is good and what is bad.

[crayon]

Welcome to the forums, Paper, I like your name!:)

I'm not from saudi, but I live there. It's the only muslim country where women can't drive, as far as I'm aware. The reason why women can't drive is unrelated to islam, it's to do with the culture of saudi arabia. Muslim women in other muslim countries and around the world all drive cars, it's islamically permissble.
It's quite a closed society here, and people aren't used to women driving. If a bunch of women got into cars and starting roaming the streets, it would be very difficult for the people to deal, the women might get harassed, followed, etc. They are going to gradually introduce women driving, so that people have more time to get used to it.

As for homosexuality, in Islam one is dealt with according to their actions, not their thoughts. So if the person is actively homosexual, then he is sinning, but if he has homosexual thoughts and chooses not to act on them, he will be rewarded for his patience.
As for the "animals do it so we should too" argument; animals do loads of things, doesn't mean they're acceptable for humans. It's not acceptable for a wife to kill and eat her husband like black widow spiders do, why should being homosexual be acceptable?

Peace.

[Paper]

Thanks very much, I can kind of better understand the culture difference.

Just to clarify: Religiously, men and women have different and equally important roles. A kind of ying to the yang kind of thing. And introducing cars into Saudi Arabia would be too much of a culture shock right now.

I understand Christianity has the same stance on homosexuality. I am lost on why society would kill homosexuals. Should we not kill liars, cheaters, infidels and other sinners as well?

now regarding homosexuality, you say you are indifferent but i've got two words to prove your not...

'bum tampax'

I'm still indifferent Lol. That's hilarious, of course gay men don't wear a "bum tampax!"

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[tresbien]

Saudi Women to Take Driver Seat

IslamOnline.net & Newspapers
Image

The women driving ban was the center of a lively public debate in the oil-rich kingdom recently.
CAIRO — After decades of banning, Saudi women will finally be able to take the driver's seat in the conservative Muslim society.

"There has been a decision to move on this by the Royal Court," a government official told The Daily Telegraph on Monday, January 21, requesting anonymity.

"We will make an announcement soon."

Officials affirmed that .........
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

[Silver]

Hello, I have always been interested in Muslim societies, especially Saudi Arabia, because of the huge differences in comparison to western societies.

I am trying to understand the rules from the perspective of a Saudi living in an Islamic country. I have a list of questions, but I won't ask all at once as some other questions may be answered in the process.

I was wondering why in some of these countries women aren't allowed to drive. I asked my Saudi friend this and he suggested the majority think that women aren't equal and that it was because the majority didn't like the idea of women drivers. He went on to say women would be harassed by men, which would incite religious violations, and so avoidance of these was the main priority. But if this is the only reason, then surely each person within that majority could realise that if the rest of the majority didn't become angry by women drivers, then the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. I am struggling to understand why women shouldn't be treated equally like men. My Saudi friend suggested that I was comparing apples and oranges, but as I see it I am comparing red apples and green apples - to me they only seem mildly different, the differences balancing each other.

Secondly I was wondering about these societies' reaction to the presence of homosexuality. Personally I am indifferent to homosexual persons, and there is a general tolerance of it within western society since it tends to only concern the individuals. Again I asked my Saudi friend, he suggested it was a choice that invoked sin as explained by the Quran. But this doesn't seem right in my mind, why on earth would any sane human being actually make a conscious choice to be homosexual in a Muslim society knowing full well it means rejection, punishment and even death?! Also, homosexuality among animals has been documented, right down to gut worms. Gut worms can't possibly make a conscious choice to be gay! It seems completely counter logical. Either gay people are sane and have no choice or completely insane, in which case what is the purpose of punishing these individuals?

Thanks for reading, I really want to understand how a Muslim sees it

Each islamic country has its own customs and traditions. Women not being allowed to drive in Saudi has nothing to do with islam, it is related to Saudi's culture and traditions.I don't know much about Saudi traditions so I can't explain to you why women there are not allowed to drive...

Islam ragards men and women as different, this does not mean that women are inferior to men!

Sadly some muslim societies women's rights are not fully respected, this has to do with traditions, wrong interpretation of the Hadiths and the Quran...Prophet Muhammad warned against this in his farewell pilgrimage: "Observe your duty to Allah in respect to the women, and recommend them to be well treated"

As for homosexuals, Islam and other religions as well don't tolerate it because it goes against human nature and it is harmful to man. Homosexuality is a sexual perversion, most christians where I live agree with that. Homosexuality is a sin according to monotheistic religions...

I think that the way western societies are addressing the issue of homosexuality is wrong. By allowing homosexuals to get married, recognizing them as couples, being indifferent about their sexual behavior...western societies are actually encouraging this sexual perversion.

[Dawud_uk]

Thanks very much, I can kind of better understand the culture difference.

Just to clarify: Religiously, men and women have different and equally important roles. A kind of ying to the yang kind of thing. And introducing cars into Saudi Arabia would be too much of a culture shock right now.

I understand Christianity has the same stance on homosexuality. I am lost on why society would kill homosexuals. Should we not kill liars, cheaters, infidels and other sinners as well?


I'm still indifferent Lol. That's hilarious, of course gay men don't wear a "bum tampax!"

maybe you need to speak to more old soddomites though, this aspect of homsexuality was actually brought up in a debate in the house of lords, they tried to shut it up but those against soddomy refused to be silenced.

[crayon]

Just to clarify: Religiously, men and women have different and equally important roles. A kind of ying to the yang kind of thing. And introducing cars into Saudi Arabia would be too much of a culture shock right now.

Exactly.
Much clearer and more concise than my ramblings, lol.

As for the killing of homosexuals, it's not necessarily the fact that they are gay, it is the fact that they are having sex outside of marriage. Any sex outside of marriage, whether it be a man and woman, 2 men, etc. has the same law. Plus, there are many conditions that need to be fulfilled before anyone is killed, one of which is that the act is witnessed by 4 eye witnesses who testify to it. And by the "act" I mean the actual act, not kissing/foreplay/etc.

Here's an article that discusses the laws in islam in brief, I haven't read it all, but from skimming it seems pretty good:
http://muslim-canada.org/Islam_myths.htm

[Pomak]

And introducing cars into Saudi Arabia would be too much of a culture shock right now.

They use cars, but the conservative side of Saudi society has a problem with it.

Edit: by it i mean that they have a problem with women driving, rather than cars.