Islam Treats Muslims and Non Muslims alike. Fact or Myth?

[justahumane]

Following is the reply of Dr. Zakir Naik when asked-Why Building of Temples and Churches, and Propagating Other Religions, is Prohibited in Saudi Arabia?

Q. Why is building of temples and churches and the propagation of any religion other than Islam not allowed in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia?

A. 1. Example of selecting a Maths teacher:

Suppose you are a principal of a school and you have to select a Mathematics teacher. It is obvious that you will interview the candidates. If one teacher says that 2 + 2 = 3, the other says 2 + 2 = 4 and the third says 2 + 2 = 5 whom will you select? Since you know mathematics is logical, you will never select or allow a person to teach mathematics who doesn’t even know the basics of arithmetic that 2 + 2 = 4.

2. Where religion is concerned Muslims are experts:

Similarly in the field of religion, Muslims are the best and Qur’an clearly mentions in Surah Ale Imran, Chapter 3, verse 19 (3:19):

“The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will)”. [Al-Qur’an 3:19]

It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85)

“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Al-Qur’an 3:85]

3. No other religious scripture claims that its religion alone is true.

There is no other religious scripture on the face of the earth besides the Qur’an which says that only its religion is true, correct and acceptable to Almighty God, and that all the other religions are false and hence not acceptable to Almighty God.

If you are a school principal who knows Maths, you will never allow a person to teach Maths in your school who does not know Maths. Similarly Muslims, who are experts in the field of religion and know that Islam is the only true religion, will not allow anyone in the country of Saudi Arabia to preach any other religion besides Islam. Muslims also know that what the true concept of Almighty God i.e. Allah (SWT) is, and thus we will not permit anyone to build, in the country of Saudi Arabia, a place of worship where they worship anyone besides Allah (swt).

And Allah Knows Best.

So does it mean that ppls of other religion have a valid reason to fear the propogation of Islam? Because when Islam will spread, good maths teachers will increase, and they wont allow other religions to be practised. Isnt it depressing for a practicing hindu/christian/sikh and so on?

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

...So does it mean that ppls of other religion have a valid reason to fear the propogation of Islam? Because when Islam will spread, good maths teachers will increase, and they wont allow other religions to be practised. Isnt it depressing for a practicing hindu/christian/sikh and so on?

Not really. Since it is an Islamic state, and thus believs Islam is the truth and others are false and that we should be calling others to Islam, it would make sense to not build new Churches/synagogues etc.

BUT, this is not to say members of other religions are to be persecuted - rather, they are to be protected and helped. It is the duty of the Islamic government to aid the dhimmis, so repairing places of worship would be allowed (and is encouraged!).


If you still don't get it: One of the beliefs of muslims is not to consume alcohol. So, would it make sense for a muslim to purchase a pub given that ruling? Unless you are a hypocrit, no it wouldn't. Ergo, muslims do not (and should not) own pubs (or anything to do with alcohol).

And no I'm not comparing non-muslims to alcohol. The example I gave is pretty straight forward in its intent.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

:sl:


Not really. Since it is an Islamic state, and thus believs Islam is the truth and others are false and that we should be calling others to Islam, it would make sense to not build new Churches/synagogues etc.

BUT, this is not to say members of other religions are to be persecuted - rather, they are to be protected and helped. It is the duty of the Islamic government to aid the dhimmis, so repairing places of worship would be allowed (and is encouraged!).

Surely it's possible to see why members of other religious communities would find such a policy threatening and unwelcome?

Peace

[aamirsaab]

Greetings,


Surely it's possible to see why members of other religious communities would find such a policy threatening and unwelcome?

Peace

I would agree with you if the ruling said no other religion was allowed to be practiced in an islamic state and/or the followers were to be persecuted. On this occasion, however, I see it as rather fair: it is allowing others to freely practice their religion. It is not however encouraging it (via building of new places of worship). Were it to do so, do you not think that would be hypocritical of it, especially given the emphasis on the belief that Islam is the truth?

Again, I think the ruling is quite fair. Certainly more so than say the BNP's or KKK's views on such matters (you know, ''if it aint white, it aint right'' - grammatical errors intended)

If we were to take the maths example from the OP; a school wouldn't even accomodate a mathematician that cannot calculate 2 + 2; whereas by the logic presented in my argument, the school actually would. Pretty fair, me thinks.

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[czgibson]

Greetings,

I would agree with you if the ruling said no other religion was allowed to be practiced in an islamic state and/or the followers were to be persecuted.

The reality is that some Muslims do persecute members of other faiths, and they invariably claim they are justified in doing so by referring to Islamic scripture.

On this occasion, however, I see it as rather fair: it is allowing others to freely practice their religion. It is not however encouraging it (via building of new places of worship). Were it to do so, do you not think that would be hypocritical of it, especially given the emphasis on the belief that Islam is the truth?

Yes, the belief that Islam is the truth. Unless it's generally agreed, upon, though, laws should not be made that are based on that assumption.

Again, I think the ruling is quite fair. Certainly more so than say the BNP's or KKK's views on such matters (you know, ''if it aint white, it aint right'' - grammatical errors intended)

Please tell me you're not seriously making the argument that because this view is more fair than the BNP or the KKK, it must be right?

If we were to take the maths example from the OP; a school wouldn't even accomodate a mathematician that cannot calculate 2 + 2; whereas by the logic presented in my argument, the school actually would. Pretty fair, me thinks.

If you really think the truth is that simple, then I suppose all your conclusions will be just as obvious.

Peace

[AntiKarateKid]

On a more commonsense note, why would a religion view those that uphold it's ideals alike to those that reject it?

It's not a trick question...honest.:?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

On a more commonsense note, why would a religion view those that uphold it's ideals alike to those that reject it?

It's not a trick question...honest.:?

Because we're all people?

Peace

[alcurad]

zakir naik is not the prophet, his is only an opinion that could be right or wrong. personally I see no problem with non-muslims living in an Islamic state building their places of worship or celebrating their fetivals etc, provided it doesn't get out of hand.
there is no particular ruling in Islam forbidding these things, rather it's the attitude some muslims have had in the past, and it continues today.

[alcurad]

On a more commonsense note, why would a religion view those that uphold it's ideals alike to those that reject it?

It's not a trick question...honest.:?

that attitude was a result of there not being much distinction between religion/state authority.
it's up to the creator to judge them, not us.

[BoredAgnostic]

Those that do not have a problem with this, say the U.S. and other western countries developed into a Christian theocracy and wouldn't allow the building of Mosques or anything that would be perceived as proselytizing, would that be a just ruling?

[AntiKarateKid]

Greetings,


Because we're all people?

Peace

Again with this pseudo-noble nonsense. We are all indeed people, but people who act according to the laws of said religion are obviously going to be exalted above the rebellious.

You are distorting the question by implying that just because it treats them differently that automatically means it is unfair and demeaning to them.

I don't see Allah calling you a dog. Just an unbeliever who will get his due reward like everyone else.


So please, do us all a favor and drop your opportunistic habits. You jump on these types of questions and distort their meanings to make yourself look "noble."

[AntiKarateKid]

that attitude was a result of there not being much distinction between religion/state authority.
it's up to the creator to judge them, not us.

I was talking purely with regards to Allah's view of our place in this life and the next.

And whoever desires a way of life other than the Submission (to the Commands of Allah), it shall not be taken from him with approval, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers. [3:85]

[justahumane]

:sl:


Not really. Since it is an Islamic state, and thus believs Islam is the truth and others are false and that we should be calling others to Islam, it would make sense to not build new Churches/synagogues etc.

BUT, this is not to say members of other religions are to be persecuted - rather, they are to be protected and helped. It is the duty of the Islamic government to aid the dhimmis, so repairing places of worship would be allowed (and is encouraged!).


If you still don't get it: One of the beliefs of muslims is not to consume alcohol. So, would it make sense for a muslim to purchase a pub given that ruling? Unless you are a hypocrit, no it wouldn't. Ergo, muslims do not (and should not) own pubs (or anything to do with alcohol).

And no I'm not comparing non-muslims to alcohol. The example I gave is pretty straight forward in its intent.

Well a perfect reply I would say. But U are defending something which cant be defended. I would extend my original question a bit. What happened to those synogogues and churches which were already built there in Saudi Arabia? I mean during the times when jews and christians were living there and practising their religion? How can u say that repairing is encouraged when there is nothing left to repair at all?

By ur standards (and by mine too), anyone owing a pub has to be a hypocrite. So are U trying to say that all those muslims who are dealing with interest-paying banks are hypocrites? I already agree but I m sure that ur fellow muslims wont.

And my question still stands...........Should, hindus/christians/sikhs/buddhists/jains/Bahais/ and so on fear, that after spreading of Islam in India, the religious freedom they are enjoying will be clipped? The places of their worship will be demolished, (Same way like Hindu fanatics had demolished Babri Mosque in India and presumably some muslims demolished synogogues and churches in S.A.) and the act will be called rightous around the Islamic world and not a crimilnal and henious one? is there possibility that proverbial good maths teachers have some pity on religious minorities?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Again with this pseudo-noble nonsense. We are all indeed people, but people who act according to the laws of said religion are obviously going to be exalted above the rebellious.

Why? As long as their views aren't criminal, people deserve respect whatever they believe. We live in a divided world, and views like yours will only increase that division.

You are distorting the question by implying that just because it treats them differently that automatically means it is unfair and demeaning to them.

I don't see Allah calling you a dog. Just an unbeliever who will get his due reward like everyone else.

Allah calls me things that I find much more insulting than that throughout the Qur'an.

So please, do us all a favor and drop your opportunistic habits. You jump on these types of questions and distort their meanings to make yourself look "noble."

I say what I think. You are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Peace

[aamirsaab]

Greetings,


The reality is that some Muslims do persecute members of other faiths, and they invariably claim they are justified in doing so by referring to Islamic scripture.

I don't deny that happens but that is actually a sin in Islam.

Yes, the belief that Islam is the truth. Unless it's generally agreed, upon, though, laws should not be made that are based on that assumption.

Keep in mind this is a theocratic state where the LAW is the RELIGION.

Please tell me you're not seriously making the argument that because this view is more fair than the BNP or the KKK, it must be right?

Nope. Just saying that out of those options, a hindu, sikh, taoist, buddhist, jew etc would be better off in an Islamic state than say under KKK or BNP rule.

If you really think the truth is that simple, then I suppose all your conclusions will be just as obvious.

Peace

The truth isn't that simple but it doesn't have to be complicated. I've said it before: Islam and sharia is like a spine; room for flexibility but it will always retain its original shape. Compare that with modern social law that changes on mere whims and bandwaggons, I think the deal is fair in Islam.

What happened to those synogogues and churches which were already built there in Saudi Arabia? I mean during the times when jews and christians were living there and practising their religion? How can u say that repairing is encouraged when there is nothing left to repair at all?

Destroying any places of worship is a sin in Islam.

By ur standards (and by mine too), anyone owing a pub has to be a hypocrite. So are U trying to say that all those muslims who are dealing with interest-paying banks are hypocrites? I already agree but I m sure that ur fellow muslims wont.

Not for me to pass judgement on such people, but if it is a sin in Islam, and you commit the action, you're a sinner.

And my question still stands...........Should, hindus/christians/sikhs/buddhists/jains/Bahais/ and so on fear, that after spreading of Islam in India, the religious freedom they are enjoying will be clipped? The places of their worship will be demolished, (Same way like Hindu fanatics had demolished Babri Mosque in India and presumably some muslims demolished synogogues and churches in S.A.) and the act will be called rightous around the Islamic world and not a crimilnal and henious one? is there possibility that proverbial good maths teachers have some pity on religious minorities?

Erm, no they shouldn't fear. As I said, they are welcome in muslim land (under sharia/Islamic law) to prey and follow their respective religion without being prosecuted/persecuted and enjoy all the freedoms that come with it. Just not allowed to build NEW places of worship.

[justahumane]

Posted by aaamirsaab
Destroying any places of worship is a sin in Islam

I agree with ur statement, but that was not my question, I just want U to agree that places of worship ie churches and synogogus were destroyed in Saudi Arabia, the only shariyah-abiding nation today. Can U defend their action as Islamic?

Posted by aamirsaab
Not for me to pass judgement on such people, but if it is a sin in Islam, and you commit the action, you're a sinner.

Brother, U cant be selective in declaring someone as hypocrite. How come that a muslim owing a pub is a hypocrite but not a muslim dealing with riba? Plz correct urself.

Posted by aamirsaab
Erm, no they shouldn't fear. As I said, they are welcome in muslim land (under sharia/Islamic law) to prey and follow their respective religion without being prosecuted/persecuted and enjoy all the freedoms that come with it. Just not allowed to build NEW places of worship.

Brother plz check out how much non muslims are free to practise their religion in the only shariyah-abiding country in this big world. And this causes a natural fear irrespective of repeated assurances of moderate muslims like U. I m not asking about persecution or prosecution. I m asking about destroying of religious places of non muslims. Will good maths teachers spare any such place? The past experiance in this regard has been worse than bad. We have example of Saudi Arabia where no trace of any other religion could be found, and we have memories of erstwhile Islamic state of Afganistan demolishing Bamiyaan Buddha.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

The maths analogy is bad simply because maths offers its own very real proof, but we cannot even prove that God exists. If we could prove beyond a doubt that God exists we would not be having this conversation.

We can only claim belief and not truth. When we use our truth like a sword against others, we harm the truth.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[aamirsaab]

I agree with ur statement, but that was not my question, I just want U to agree that places of worship ie churches and synogogus were destroyed in Saudi Arabia, the only shariyah-abiding nation today. Can U defend their action as Islamic?

No I cannot defend their actions since destroying places of worship is a sin Islam.

Brother, U cant be selective in declaring someone as hypocrite. How come that a muslim owing a pub is a hypocrite but not a muslim dealing with riba? Plz correct urself.

Fine, they'd be counted as hypocrite.

.....We have example of Saudi Arabia where no trace of any other religion could be found, and we have memories of erstwhile Islamic state of Afganistan demolishing Bamiyaan Buddha.

You keep assuming saudi is representative of sharia/Islamic law. The interpretation they are using is far from correct; it's become dogmatic without a proper caliphate and that's why you get stupid outcomes from there.

As for the Bamiyaan Buddha in Afghanistan, that is a long story that I've already discussed previously. I'm not going to get into that again.

Ultimately, however, Sharia and Islam both allow non-muslims to practice their religion (this is the answer you were looking for originally). Certain muslim countries do not always follow those rules laid out (which is often why muslims criticise those countries!). Apart from condemning those sinful acts, there is very little I can do on the internet.

[sevgi]

I would agree with you if the ruling said no other religion was allowed to be practiced in an islamic state and/or the followers were to be persecuted. On this occasion, however, I see it as rather fair: it is allowing others to freely practice their religion. It is not however encouraging it (via building of new places of worship). Were it to do so, do you not think that would be hypocritical of it, especially given the emphasis on the belief that Islam is the truth?

Again, I think the ruling is quite fair. Certainly more so than say the BNP's or KKK's views on such matters (you know, ''if it aint white, it aint right'' - grammatical errors intended)

If we were to take the maths example from the OP; a school wouldn't even accomodate a mathematician that cannot calculate 2 + 2; whereas by the logic presented in my argument, the school actually would. Pretty fair, me thinks.

Salams

Fearing an Islamic state in today's societal makeup is validated utterly by some of the machinations of Saudi Arabia. Whilst their dealings do not appear fair let alone appealing to most of us from the West, we must understand that the standards set by SA are not indicative of what Islam as a way of life is.

The destruction of religious centres of non-Islamic foundation is wrong in every sense. The prevention of the building of such places of worship may seem like a bad thing, but it is totally understandable. I wouldn't call it fair though.

I say this because the prevention of the building of such places is seen here in the west too. We see Islamic school and mosque proposals being knocked back by all levels of parliment here in Australia. I mean, we sit down and have a cry about it not being fair. What is not fair in the west against Islam cannot be fair for the non-muslims in SA.

WS.

[justahumane]

No I cannot defend their actions since destroying places of worship is a sin Islam.


Fine, they'd be counted as hypocrite.


You keep assuming saudi is representative of sharia/Islamic law. The interpretation they are using is far from correct; it's become dogmatic without a proper caliphate and that's why you get stupid outcomes from there.

As for the Bamiyaan Buddha in Afghanistan, that is a long story that I've already discussed previously. I'm not going to get into that again.

Ultimately, however, Sharia and Islam both allow non-muslims to practice their religion (this is the answer you were looking for originally). Certain muslim countries do not always follow those rules laid out (which is often why muslims criticise those countries!). Apart from condemning those sinful acts, there is very little I can do on the internet.

No brother, I know for sure that Islam doesnt encourage any such system which could look so intolrable towards other religion where one cant even practice his or her religion. And neither I assume that they are representative of Islam or shariyah. But likes of Dr. Zakir Naik show this notion to the world. And his muslim audience cheer him too. I m looking forward for the day when I can ask this and some other questions from him live, InshAllah.

I too have few points to discuess with U on ur view about Bamiyaan Buddha, but some other time. I have read ur discussion on this topic.

And thanks for kind reply, I was always sure, keeping in view ur previous posts, that we are already in agreement on this subject. :statisfie.

[AntiKarateKid]

Greetings,


Why? As long as their views aren't criminal, people deserve respect whatever they believe. We live in a divided world, and views like yours will only increase that division.



Allah calls me things that I find much more insulting than that throughout the Qur'an.



I say what I think. You are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Peace

Say what you think then.

Just don't cry when Allah and his messengers say what they think about you.

[KashifB]

.... destroying places of worship is a sin Islam.....

:sl:

I'm not doubting you brother but I'd like to know what you're basing this on.
Any hadith or ayat.

:w:

[AntiKarateKid]

:sl:

I'm not doubting you brother but I'd like to know what you're basing this on.
Any hadith or ayat.

:w:

Indeed, I was wondering this myself.

[sevgi]

:sl:

I'm not doubting you brother but I'd like to know what you're basing this on.
Any hadith or ayat.

:w:

I suck at finding justification for certain things. I'm not a fan of fatwas...but yeah, this took my attention also and I was doing a little search. I found somethings on the topic and I've cropped a bit out of this website I've linked below. It basically quotes:

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

More specifically, this part:
[To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;- (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).] (Al-Hajj 22: 39-40)

Not sure about you guys/gals, but in light of that (and sevgi's post) I'd count destroying places of worship as a sin.

p.s; jihadwatch is anti-islam.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Say what you think then.

Just don't cry when Allah and his messengers say what they think about you.

I have no objection in principle, but I don't see why rudeness should be necessary.

Peace

[Questfortruth]

No I cannot defend their actions since destroying places of worship is a sin Islam.

As far as I heard from Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki. The non muslims are not allowed to build place of worship in Muslim land. The only place of worship that are allowed were the ones that were build before Islam came.

we have memories of erstwhile Islamic state of Afganistan demolishing Bamiyaan Buddha.

Idol worship is not allowed in Islam. Therefore, it is not permissble for the idols to placed on public property. If idols are placed on public property they can be taken down.

[Questfortruth]

No brother, I know for sure that Islam doesnt encourage any such system which could look so intolrable towards other religion where one cant even practice his or her religion. And neither I assume that they are representative of Islam or shariyah. But likes of Dr. Zakir Naik show this notion to the world. And his muslim audience cheer him too.

Prove it show the video

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Idol worship is not allowed in Islam. Therefore, it is not permissble for the idols to placed on public property. If idols are placed on public property they can be taken down.

The destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas shocked the world, not just Buddhists.

They were "placed on public property" (or built) during the sixth century, before Islam even existed. Destroying them made the Taliban look incredibly malicious and paranoid.

Peace

[Questfortruth]

Salams

Fearing an Islamic state in today's societal makeup is validated utterly by some of the machinations of Saudi Arabia. Whilst their dealings do not appear fair let alone appealing to most of us from the West, we must understand that the standards set by SA are not indicative of what Islam as a way of life is.

The destruction of religious centres of non-Islamic foundation is wrong in every sense. The prevention of the building of such places of worship may seem like a bad thing, but it is totally understandable. I wouldn't call it fair though.

I say this because the prevention of the building of such places is seen here in the west too. We see Islamic school and mosque proposals being knocked back by all levels of parliment here in Australia. I mean, we sit down and have a cry about it not being fair. What is not fair in the west against Islam cannot be fair for the non-muslims in SA.

WS.

This may seem unreasonable to western liberial muslims. But the reality is non muslims are not allowed to build their place of worship in Muslim land. The muslims have to go to non muslim land and do dawah, but if any aspect of Islam is being prevented by the state muslims are to wage Jihad. The reason I am not politically correcting my answers is because the non muslims always end up learning the truth and wonder why the muslims lied to them.

Islam was send to eliminate all the false religions and false gods and to promote the worship of Allah and follow his choosen religion.

[Questfortruth]

Greetings,


The destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas shocked the world, not just Buddhists.

They were "placed on public property" (or built) during the sixth century, before Islam even existed. Destroying them made the Taliban look incredibly malicious and paranoid.

Peace

HMMMM! RIGHT

Do you want to hear the truth or should I actively promote rubbish so you be pleased? Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of allah be upon him) destroyed the idols placed in Kaaba.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

HMMMM! RIGHT

Do you want to hear the truth or should I actively promote rubbish so you be pleased? Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of allah be upon him) destroyed the idols placed in Kaaba.

Maybe the time has come for a little less destruction? What do you think?

Peace

[Questfortruth]

Greetings,


Maybe the time has come for a little less destruction? What do you think?

Peace

Subhan'Allah concerned more about destruction of idols that cannot talk or feel pain. Yet ignores the mass murder of women and children around the world. Let us start by stop killing innocent men, women, and children. Don't worry about the idols they dont bleed.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Subhan'Allah concerned more about destruction of idols that cannot talk or feel pain. Yet ignores the mass murder of women and children around the world. Let us start by stop killing innocent men, women, and children. Don't worry about the idols they dont bleed.

Concerned about destruction full stop.

Peace

[Questfortruth]

Greetings,


Concerned about destruction full stop.

Peace

If you follow along in the thread we were clearly talking about the Idols.

[justahumane]

Prove it show the video

What U want me to prove? U have doubt that Dr. Naik doesnt justify Saudi Arabia's intolrance towards other religions and their not letting any other religion to be practiced? Plz read the first post of this thread and then get back to me. Or U have doubts that Muslim crowd doesnt applaud him for his answers?

[justahumane]

If you follow along in the thread we were clearly talking about the Idols.

Brother U need to follow this thread properly, U will discover that WE are discussing about placesof worship belonging to other religions, that were destroyed by muslims, idols too are worshipped/revered by some existing religions.

[Questfortruth]

What U want me to prove? U have doubt that Dr. Naik doesnt justify Saudi Arabia's intolrance towards other religions and their not letting any other religion to be practiced? Plz read the first post of this thread and then get back to me. Or U have doubts that Muslim crowd doesnt applaud him for his answers?

Just show me the video you are talking about.

[Questfortruth]

Brother U need to follow this thread properly, U will discover that WE are discussing about placesof worship belonging to other religions, that were destroyed by muslims, idols too are worshipped/revered by some existing religions.

No, you need to follow the thread properly. I was clearly having a conversation with czgibson about Idols.

[K.Venugopal]

Just show me the video you are talking about.

I think the following You Tube clip is what the OP was refering to. In it Dr. Naik speaks largely in Urdu. But it is sub-titled in English. The most amazing logic Dr. Naik advances is that 2 + 2 = 4, therefore Quran alone is right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyS8sIUjmQ

[justahumane]

No, you need to follow the thread properly. I was clearly having a conversation with czgibson about Idols.

Well Okay brother, I have followed this thread again and found that this thread is not about ur conversation with someone about idols but intolrance of Saudi Arabia towards other religion and that too in the name of Islam and its about Dr. Zakir Naik's rediculous justification of their unislamic act.

And there is a genuine question raised in the light of Saudi Arabia's act. For ur convinience I m quoting that question again.

So does it mean that ppls of other religion have a valid reason to fear the propogation of Islam? Because when Islam will spread, good maths teachers will increase, and they wont allow other religions to be practised. Isnt it depressing for a practicing hindu/christian/sikh and so on?

Plz contribute a thought.

Thanks.

[Questfortruth]

I think the following You Tube clip is what the OP was refering to. In it Dr. Naik speaks largely in Urdu. But it is sub-titled in English. The most amazing logic Dr. Naik advances is that 2 + 2 = 4, therefore Quran alone is right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plyS8sIUjmQ

Makes complete sense to me. Where are the audience cheering him on?

[Questfortruth]

So does it mean that ppls of other religion have a valid reason to fear the propogation of Islam? Because when Islam will spread, good maths teachers will increase, and they wont allow other religions to be practised. Isnt it depressing for a practicing hindu/christian/sikh and so on?

Falsehood always feared truth because they are both the opposite. Whats wrong with increase of good math teachers? If I correct a person because they make a mistake should they not be happy then depressed?

[justahumane]

Falsehood always feared truth because they are both the opposite. Whats wrong with increase of good math teachers? If I correct a person because they make a mistake should they not be happy then depressed?

Brother destruction is always done by ppls who fear falsehood. If U are on right path than ALLAH is with U and U need not hurt someone's religious sentiments by destroying his or her place of worship, in order to please ALLAH. And there is nothing wrong with increase of good maths teachers, unless they dont start destroying churches, synogogues, temples ect. Do U think that Islam permits this act of religious intolrance? I dare U to respond.

And plz note my reply to my own question. No I dont think that Islam permits U to destroy places of worship. Coz they say that Islam is religion of Universal Brotherhood. U may differ with it. And the most stupid wont do any such act in the name of Islam, pchychopaths excluded.

And brother, Gorge Bush thougt while attacking Islamic countries that he is going to correct them, Janjaweeds think that they are correcting Darfurians, When hindu fanatics brought down Babri Mosque, they too had same feelings,Russians did that in Afganistan and still doing this in Chechanya, and above all Crusaders too thought in the same line. I cant give U the full list right now of such ppls but U know where it ends.

So again my question, do U think that Islam permits any such act U are justifying? Will U answer?

[K.Venugopal]

... Islam is religion of Universal Brotherhood.

Islam does not believe in universal brotherhood. It only believes in the brotherhood of believers.

[K.Venugopal]

...I dont think that Islam permits U to destroy places of worship.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what Mohammad did when he destroyed the idols of Mecca and later on Baber did when he destroyed the Ram Temple in Ayodhya and the Taliban did when they destroyed the Bamiyan statues.

[Questfortruth]

Brother destruction is always done by ppls who fear falsehood. If U are on right path than ALLAH is with U and U need not hurt someone's religious sentiments by destroying his or her place of worship, in order to please ALLAH. And there is nothing wrong with increase of good maths teachers, unless they dont start destroying churches, synogogues, temples ect. Do U think that Islam permits this act of religious intolrance? I dare U to respond.

And plz note my reply to my own question. No I dont think that Islam permits U to destroy places of worship. Coz they say that Islam is religion of Universal Brotherhood. U may differ with it. And the most stupid wont do any such act in the name of Islam, pchychopaths excluded.

And brother, Gorge Bush thougt while attacking Islamic countries that he is going to correct them, Janjaweeds think that they are correcting Darfurians, When hindu fanatics brought down Babri Mosque, they too had same feelings,Russians did that in Afganistan and still doing this in Chechanya, and above all Crusaders too thought in the same line. I cant give U the full list right now of such ppls but U know where it ends.

So again my question, do U think that Islam permits any such act U are justifying? Will U answer?

Allah is with the believers and victory is for believers. Like I said Non muslims worship areas that were created before Islam came are allowed to be kept. But after Islam took over non muslims were not allowed to build their worship place anymore. They can practice their religion inside their home but not outside.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Allah is with the believers and victory is for believers. Like I said Non muslims worship areas that were created before Islam came are allowed to be kept. But after Islam took over non muslims were not allowed to build their worship place anymore. They can practice their religion inside their home but not outside.

But like I said earlier, the Bamyian Buddhas were built before Islam existed, so what possible justification could the Taliban have had for destroying them?

Peace

[aamirsaab]

Greetings,


But like I said earlier, the Bamyian Buddhas were built before Islam existed, so what possible justification could the Taliban have had for destroying them?

Peace

Were these the same statues that were refurbished by the US? If they were, I've already answered your question in another thread.

[Argamemnon]

I disagree with Zakir Naik. If there are Christians, or people of other faiths in Muslim lands, they have every right to practice their religion, as long as they are not harming others. I have never liked Zakir Naik. He is a radical Islamist. I interpret Islam very differently than these people, I choose to ignore such people.

[Questfortruth]

I disagree with Zakir Naik. If there are Christians, or people of other faiths in Muslim lands, they have every right to practice their religion, as long as they are not harming others. I have never liked Zakir Naik. He is a radical Islamist. I interpret Islam very differently than these people, I choose to ignore such people.

Ah! Here we go "Rant Muslim" calling a good scholar extremist to please the disbelievers. Non muslims have right to pratice their faith no one disagrees but cannot preach it.

[Questfortruth]

Greetings,


But like I said earlier, the Bamyian Buddhas were built before Islam existed, so what possible justification could the Taliban have had for destroying them?

Peace

Place of worship and idols are two different things. Worship should be done inside not outside. The idols were on public view they are allowed to the destroyed.

[Questfortruth]

Greetings,


But like I said earlier, the Bamyian Buddhas were built before Islam existed, so what possible justification could the Taliban have had for destroying them?

Peace

Place of worship and idols are two different things. Worship should be done inside not outside. The idols were on public view they are allowed to the destroyed.

[Argamemnon]

Ah! Here we go "Rant Muslim" calling a good scholar extremist to please the disbelievers. Non muslims have right to pratice their faith no one disagrees but cannot preach it.

I'm not pleasing anyone, it's my opinion. That man is worthless in my eyes. I don't have to agree with you, or any other Muslim, understood? Grow up.

[AntiKarateKid]

I'm not pleasing anyone, it's my opinion. That man is worthless in my eyes. I don't have to agree with you, or any other Muslim, understood? Grow up.

Lets not speak without ilm.

First prove that what he says is unIslamic then make accusations against a fellow Muslim brother.

It may just be me, but calling a brother in Islam "worthless," especially someone who has successfully defended Islam in so many debates, jsut because you disagree with his views is shameful.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said :”Do you know what backbiting is?” They said, “God and His Messenger know best.” He then said, “It is to say something about your brother that he would dislike.” Someone asked him, “But what if what I say is true?” The Messenger of God said, “If what you say about him is true, you are backbiting him, but if it is not true then you have slandered him.” (Muslim)

[AntiKarateKid]

Unfortunately, that is exactly what Mohammad did when he destroyed the idols of Mecca and later on Baber did when he destroyed the Ram Temple in Ayodhya and the Taliban did when they destroyed the Bamiyan statues.

Unfortunately?

The Meccans desecrated Abraham's place of worship with their false gods.

Thank goodness for people like the Prophet pbuh who have backbone enough to tell the disbelievers that they are wrong and show them why so that they may know too.

[Woodrow]

Those that do not have a problem with this, say the U.S. and other western countries developed into a Christian theocracy and wouldn't allow the building of Mosques or anything that would be perceived as proselytizing, would that be a just ruling?

It has happened in the past and happens today.

Try preaching Baptist doctrine in Vatican City. Try building a Mosque, that looks like a Mosque in Mexico. There are other examples, but at the moment those are the only two I can remember.

Now, has anybody criticized either Mexico or Vatican City? Even most of us Muslims accept it as being thier right.

[AntiKarateKid]

By the way, Prophet Muhammad pbuh allowed monks in Arabia to practice their religion and even gave them a charter which secured their religious freedom.

[Argamemnon]

It has happened in the past and happens today.

Try preaching Baptist doctrine in Vatican City. Try building a Mosque, that looks like a Mosque in Mexico. There are other examples, but at the moment those are the only two I can remember.

Now, has anybody criticized either Mexico or Vatican City? Even most of us Muslims accept it as being thier right.

I don't accept it as being their "right". The Mexicans ought to be ashamed of themselves.

[AntiKarateKid]

I request the mods to close this thread.

It has run it's course and is now Muslims insulting each other and speaking about a matter which is best left to scholars with proper sources to back up their claims.

We are merely spewing conjecture on both sides.

[Woodrow]

I request the mods to close this thread.

It has run it's course and is now Muslims insulting each other and speaking about a matter which is best left to scholars with proper sources to back up their claims.

We are merely spewing conjecture on both sides.

I agree.

:threadclo: