spirits @ kramats

[logic]

Assalamu Aleikumn brothers and sisters,

I seek advice on the topic of Kramats (shrines) of Imaams/shaiks. I know someone who is of the opinion that the spirit(?) of pious people (often the Imaam buried at the kramat) still stays on earth until the day of resurrection and by visiting a kramat and reciting some duas, it is possible to get the ?spirit? to intercede on your behalf.

I do not know enough about this idea to be able to refute/support it, and would sincerely appreciate any guidance on the matter.

Assalaam,

[innocent]

No. It is shirk. You should keep away from such practices.

[doorster]

Assalamu Aleikumn brothers and sisters,

I seek advice on the topic of Kramats (shrines) of Imaams/shaiks. I know someone who is of the opinion that the spirit(?) of pious people (often the Imaam buried at the kramat) still stays on earth until the day of resurrection and by visiting a kramat and reciting some duas, it is possible to get the ?spirit? to intercede on your behalf.

I do not know enough about this idea to be able to refute/support it, and would sincerely appreciate any guidance on the matter.

Assalaam,

in my religion (mazhab) it is same for everyone, pious or sinner, all spirits wait in the grave until day of judgement

wa salam

[north_malaysian]

I know someone who is of the opinion that the spirit(?) of pious people (often the Imaam buried at the kramat) still stays on earth until the day of resurrection and by visiting a kramat and reciting some duas, it is possible to get the ?spirit? to intercede on your behalf.

what?:exhausted

why should this pious people's spirits stay on earth waiting for people if they can have the leisure time in their graves...

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Assalamu Aleikumn brothers and sisters,

I seek advice on the topic of Kramats (shrines) of Imaams/shaiks. I know someone who is of the opinion that the spirit(?) of pious people (often the Imaam buried at the kramat) still stays on earth until the day of resurrection and by visiting a kramat and reciting some duas, it is possible to get the ?spirit? to intercede on your behalf.

I do not know enough about this idea to be able to refute/support it, and would sincerely appreciate any guidance on the matter.

Assalaam,

:w:

It is irrelevant whether their spirits are there or not, because Dua' is to be directed directly to Allaah, not to anyone who has passed away. Allaah says regarding the idols that the Arabs used to worship that their beliefs regarding them was that the Arabs used to consider them as intercessors and seek their intercession:

{And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him}[Yunus; 18]

{And do not invoke besides Allah that which neither benefits you nor harms you, for if you did, then indeed you would be of the wrongdoers.}[Yunus; 106]

Lastly, Ibn al-Qayyim says in Madarij al-Salikin (1/332):

“From the forms (of Shirk): Requesting the dead for needs, seeking their aid and turning to them.

This is the basis for Shirk in the world. This is because the actions of the dead have ceased. He is not able to harm or benefit himself, let alone the one who seeks his aid, or asks him to fulfil his need, or asks him to intercede for him with Allah, for this is from his ignorance with respect to the intercessor and the one interceded for, as has preceded. This is because he (the intercessor) is not able to intercede for him with Allah, except with His permission. Allah did not make his ‘seeking aid’ and petitioning, a cause for Allah’s permission to be granted. The only cause that grants Allah’s permission (for intercession) is the perfection of Tawheed. Yet, this Mushrik comes along, with a cause that only prevents Allah’s permission (for intercession)!”

[HinduIconoclast]

logic, what you need to keep in mind is that it is not only shirk to worship others than Allah. But it is also shirk to put your (religious) faith into anything/anyone besides Allah (like amulets that are supposed to protect against the evil eye, imams, etc.). Also, it is only Allah who helps the believers - others cannot harm nor help you, the doctrine of intercession is illogical, it is shirk, and it has no support from Islamic scriptures (to the best of my knowledge).

[Muslimlearner]

I want to know more for the Karamat,it was beafore is it happening now and to whom and how to seek it?

?

[ardianto]

Assalamu Aleikumn brothers and sisters,

I seek advice on the topic of Kramats (shrines) of Imaams/shaiks. I know someone who is of the opinion that the spirit(?) of pious people (often the Imaam buried at the kramat) still stays on earth until the day of resurrection and by visiting a kramat and reciting some duas, it is possible to get the ?spirit? to intercede on your behalf.

I do not know enough about this idea to be able to refute/support it, and would sincerely appreciate any guidance on the matter.

Assalaam,

Some people believe, after died, spirit of pious person is stays in akheera but it still has relation with dunya. This spirit can watch everything that happen in dunya, and sometime can back to dunya and meet living people. And as pious person when in dunya, this spirit has a special connection to Allah.

People who believe this story usually visit their graves and make du'a. Not to Allah, but to those dead persons because they believe if they make du'a directly to Allah, Allah will not listens or accepts their du'a. So, they 'tell' their wishing to dead persons and expect those dead persons will ask Allah to grants their du'a.

Is this shirk ?, no doubt, this is shirk !.

But unfortunately this is a common practice in Indonesia. I often see people visit the shrines and ask dead persons. In Indonesian language shrine is 'Keramat'.

[Muhaba]

This is common amongst many ppl, in pakistan, india, iran, etc. both sunni and shia. It's important to preach to these sort of ppl and to let them know that they are committing shirk and that if they die without repenting, they are going straight to Hell and will never go to heaven because shirk is the one sin that Allah will not forgive.

[north_malaysian]

This is common amongst many ppl, in pakistan, india, iran, etc. both sunni and shia. .

It used to be popular among Muslims in Malaysia too until it was banned by religious councils in the 80s. Now only like 0.01% of Malaysian Muslims do that.....

[Muhaba]

^That is good. Alhamdulillah! I heard in many parts of pakistan ppl are becoming knowledgeable as there are many lectures and tafsir studies, even women going house-to-house in their communities preaching, teaching tafsir etc so many ppl have stopped going to graves etc. Hopefully other communities will follow. if every community has regular tafsir lectures, i think muslims will improve greatly, especially the new generation.

[ardianto]

It used to be popular among Muslims in Malaysia too until it was banned by religious councils in the 80s. Now only like 0.01% of Malaysian Muslims do that.....

Very good, alhamdulillah.

But, situation in Indonesia is different. Many people are still committing shirk in the Kramat although Indonesian religious councils ban this practice.
No wonder, that's because there is no punishment for this.

[north_malaysian]

Very good, alhamdulillah.

But, situation in Indonesia is different. Many people are still committing shirk in the Kramat although Indonesian religious councils ban this practice.
No wonder, that's because there is no punishment for this.

in Malaysia, they had demolished all those extra things on the tombs ie. roofs, yellow cloths, candles, etc. and those who still doing it are doing it underground or visit those "holy shrines" in Indonesia and singapore

[Muhaba]

^hmm I wonder if that's why malaysia is successful while indonesia always seems to have problems. In Iraq also ppl go to shrine of Ali (R) and do shirk, even prostrate to the shrines, & look what's happened to Iraq. There's also lots of shirk in Iran, in Mashad as well as other places.

Something to ponder over. While one can't say that the shirk is the cause of the problems, foreigh intervention etc, still ppl should try to stop this shirk because otherwise Allah will be angry and if the knowledgeable ppl aren't trying to warn the ignorant, then Allah may punish all of them. Allah says repeatedly in the Quraan that He can remove a certain ppl and replace them with others, which seems to be happening now as the kafirs are killing muslims everywhere.

[Ramadhan]

^hmm I wonder if that's why malaysia is successful while indonesia always seems to have problems.

That would be like saying "thats why dubai and UAE are successful while Iraq and Egypt always seem to have problems"

[Muhaba]

Dubai & UAE doesn't have shirk. The ppl are very knowledgeable there & stay away from every form of shirk. Egypt on the other hand has sufism & i read somewhere that ppl consider the sufi sheikhs to have powers of intecession etc. Still i didn't say shirk was the cause of the problems but may be since it will bring the anger of Allah on those committing shirk especially if it is widespread. In the past whole nations were destroyed by Allah's Wrath because of their wrongdoing, why shouldn't we expect the same to happen today?