Simple book easy to understand?

[Mithras]

If the Quran is indeed the final message of God to humans how come it has divided Islamic followers over it's message?

[Mithras]

I thought I would have lots of replies to this question. I'm very disappointed.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

If the Quran is indeed the final message of God to humans how come it has divided Islamic followers over it's message?

what the quran teaches and what the Muslims do, can sometimes be two completely different things, unfortunately.
just because the Muslims have strayed, deviated, etc, this does not mean that the credibility of the quran is affected...
hence, it hasn't divided its followers, its followers have deviated from it...

[alcurad]

some division is good, the qur'an supports many interpretations, all of them are essentially equally correct, unless in contradiction to other major aspects of Islamic belief, ie. the qur'an is to be taken as a whole.
otherwise, not everyone follows all the time, as is human nature.

P.S it is better to open such threads in the comparative religion section rather than advice & support, where such question are usually asked, advice & support is mostly for personal problems.
you could ask a mod to put it there for you.:)

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[Mithras]

what the quran teaches and what the Muslims do, can sometimes be two completely different things, unfortunately.
just because the Muslims have strayed, deviated, etc, this does not mean that the credibility of the quran is affected...
hence, it hasn't divided its followers, its followers have deviated from it...

Nice answer but remember, ita's the FINAL communication from the CREATOR, so it has been made EASY TO UNDERSTAND.
Surely if an omniscient creator had claimed it was "final", and therefore "easy to understand" then the religion would not have suffered the same schisms of the other Abrahimic/Ibrahimic religions.

[Mithras]

some division is good, the qur'an supports many interpretations, all of them are essentially equally correct, unless in contradiction to other major aspects of Islamic belief, ie. the qur'an is to be taken as a whole.
otherwise, not everyone follows all the time, as is human nature.

Islam was meant to replace the old teachings of "the book" with a final easier to understand formulae, and as soon as the founder died the first schism occurred.
The most prolific ages of Islam were during Sufi leaders. Meanwhile modern Sunni sects are leading the "Ummah" towards a hurdle over which Christianity also fell, i.e. that a prophet's closest followers are the best examples to humanity.

P.S it is better to open such threads in the comparative religion section rather than advice & support, where such question are usually asked, advice & support is mostly for personal problems.
you could ask a mod to put it there for you.:)

I originally opened it in the Quran section, a mod moved it here.

[Mithras]

Correction:
i.e. that a prophet's closest followers are the best examples to humanity. orf his message.

[alcurad]

which is not completely incorrect at that, rather this problem is not stemming from the messenger or the message, it is their personal decision not to follow & abuse the teachings.
although I do agree, something akin to a church has been established, many did not-and continue to not- understand Islam truly, and so seek to replicate earlier traditions. in no way is this representative of the qur'an's teachings though.

[- Qatada -]

The fact that people differ over the message is something already Prophecised, so we knew it would be differed over due to many reasons, i.e. people interpreting it based on desires the wrong way, due to some hypocrites making new interpretations out of anger for islam taking over their lands etc.

Whatever the case, Islam has been preserved with the Qur'an being preserved letter for letter, and the Sunnah [Prophetic example] and his interpretation uptill this day and until the final hour.


So the issue isn't about what people differ over, its the fact that it [the Qur'an] and the Prophetic interpretation has remained authentically preserved uptill this day - which makes Islam special. History and the texts testifiy to this.

Therefore anyone wanting to know the right way will be able to find it, since it is preserved uptill the final hour. This is something which the previous nations did not have [since their duty was to preserve the message, whereas the duty of the Muslims now is to convey it but Allah will preserve it for them.]

[Zafran]

salaam

The main messege of the Quran is clear and it is a clear book - doing paryers, cahrity, 1 God are all clear things in the Quran

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

This topic has been raised several times in the past so I have tried to gather some information below, including the adaptation of part of a book, a Q&A and some old posts below.


Firstly, why does the Qur'an need to be explained?

Indeed, it is true that anyone who approaches the Qur'an with a pure heart, seeking the guidance of Allaah, will find it. As Allaah says,

This (Qur'an) is a declaration for mankind, a guidance and an admonition for those who ward off evil [3:138]

But this in no way implies that a person who is unaware of the numerous hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in explaining the Qur'an, and of the reasons behind the revelation of specific verses, and of the intricacies of Arabic grammar and principles of rhetoric, and of the various styles of recitation, and of the knowledge of the abrogated rulings, and of all the other topics pertaining to the sciences of the Qur'an, will benefit from the Qur'an to the same degree as someone who has knowledge of all these aspects. For example, someone well grounded in the Arabic language might be able to see a certain wisdom behind the phrasing of a verse that the average person may not. A person specialised in the above sciences will be better able to grasp the intended meanings of a verse and derive rulings from it, whereas the average layman is not qualified to derive rulings from the Qur'an.

It is a known fact that Allaah communicates with man in a way that he will be able to understand. This is the reason that every messenger has been sent in the language of his people. Despite this, tafseer (Qur'anic exegesis) is still necessary because:

- Allaah uses the most clear, eloquent and concise language, and in doing so the meaning is clear to those well-grounded in the Arabic language but not so clear to those who are not.

- The Qur'an itself does not always mention the events or references for which each particular verse was revealed, and these must be known in order for the verse to be fully and totally understood.

- Some words may have multiple meanings, and it is the job of the person that does tafseer to explain what is meant by the word.

It can be said that the purpose of tafseer is to elaborate the principles which the Qur'an came to clarify.

The Qur'an is like a treasure trapped in a glass receptacle; mankind can view and benefit from this treasure, but they are in need of tafseer, for tafseer acts like the key that unlocks the treasure so that mankind can benefit from it to the greatest possible extent.

Apart from these reasons, the Qur'an itself commands its readers to ponder over it and to reflect upon its meanings:

(This is) a Book which We have sent down to you, full of blessings, so that they may ponder over its verses, and that men of understanding may remember [38:29]

It is the science of tafseer which is the fruit of 'pondering over its verses'.



A Q&A about this topic:

Question:I have a question regarding the Qur’ân. Why, to fully understand the Qur’ân, must we refer to someone who is an expert at tafsîr? Why should a book that is for all humanity be so that its hard to understand?

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

The Qur’ân is accessible to everyone. Its message is clear and so are its lessons. The Qur’ân is clear in meaning. It was understandable to the people of the past as it is understandable to people today.

However, to fully understand all of what the Qur’ân is telling us in an in-depth, precise, and accurate manner, and to make sure we do not misunderstand anything (for indeed, to err is human), there is prerequisite knowledge that we need to acquire.

For instance, it is of tremendous importance for a person approaching the study of the Qur’ân to have knowledge of the Arabic language and of the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Arabic language

For a person to be able to explore the meaning of the Qur’ân effectively, he would have to possess a mastery of the Arabic language. The Qur’ân is in Arabic and there is no escaping the fact that its meanings are conveyed by its words.

This is why translations can never suffice. A person cannot rely on someone else’s invariable subjective interpretation. Aside from the subjectivity of the interpreter, levels of meaning that are conveyed by the original Arabic are lost in translation, and more seriously, the words used in the language of translation will unavoidably have shades of meaning not present in the original Arabic.

When it comes to interpreting different shades of meaning, we can never apply our own arbitrary understanding to a verse. We cannot make the meanings up ourselves according to our feelings.

The Sunnah

A knowledge of the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is integral to understanding the Qur’ân. Without such knowledge, a commentator might unwittingly contradict some fundamental aspect of our religion or some teaching of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

We must realize that the verses of the Qur’ân were revealed in stages, not all at once. These verses are not arranged in chronological order according to their time of revelation. Therefore, to understand the Qur’ân, we must know the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him) to whom the Qur’ân was revealed. The Qur’ân and the Sunnah are intrinsically linked.

First of all, the Prophet (peace be upon him) on a number of occasions explained the Qur’ân. He explained the meaning of many verses. Also, through his actions, he demonstrated how many verses of the Qur’ân could be practically applied in our lives.

Allah says: “Indeed, Allah conferred a great favor on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His signs and purifying them and instructing them in the Book and the Wisdom.”

Allah calls the Prophet (peace be upon him) the best example: “You have in Allah’s Messenger an excellent example of conduct for those who put their hopes in Allah and the Last Day and remember Allah often.”

Secondly, verses were revealed under different circumstances and in different contexts. Only by studying the Sunnah and the biography of our Prophet (peace be upon him) can we gain the valuable insights from the context of the revelation of different verses.

Thirdly, some verses abrogate the rulings of others. This is clearly and unambiguously stated in the Qur’ân. Allah says: “What we abrogate of the verses or cause to be forgotten, we come with what is better or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is capable of all things?”

Since the verses are not presented in the Qur’ân in chronological order, it is vital to know which verses were revealed first and which came later, so we can determine which rulings abrogate which. It is well and good to understand a verse, but if we act upon it not realizing that its ruling has been abrogated, then we are making a mistake. We can only get this information from the Sunnah.

Understanding of the Arabic language and the Sunnah are two of the many important prerequisites to an in-depth and accurate knowledge of the Qur’ân.

We also need knowledge of the views and understandings of the Companions who actually were there at the time of the revelation and those of their students among the Successors.

When we look at a good commentary of the Qur’ân, what do we find? We find discussions of the language of the verses, including the meanings of the words and the meanings of the sentences. We find statements of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and of His Companions. We find discussions of Islamic Law issues that the verses indicate. Therefore, reading good commentaries like that of Ibn Kathîr, and asking knowledgable scholars of Qur'anic commentary, allow us to get a deeper understanding of the Qur’ân.

And now some old posts, some of which address the issue about differing:

Why must you have scholars tell you what it means?

Since it is the inherent nature of language that allows for the possibility of misinterpretations in practically any set of instructions, God sent a messenger with the scripture to explain it and demonstrate how to implement it's teachings. The teachings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh are referred to as the Sunnah, and the Qur'an and the Sunnah form the sources of legislation and guidance in Islam. Thus, for one to determine the ruling on any particular issue it entails sound knowledge of both these sources. So anyone can understand the Qur'an so long as they invest the time to acquire knowledge of these two sources. You can't just go from a superficial reading of a medical textbook to acting as a doctor and treating patients in the hospital, you need to study in medical school first. Likewise one needs to be qualified in terms of their Islamic knowledge in order to give rulings in Islamic jurisprudence. Knowledge is a prerequisite in any field. The fact that you need knowledge in no way negates the clarity of the texts you are acquiring knowledge from. They are two seperate issues.

Why do so many disagree with it?

Lack of knowledge. In this case, the problem is easily resolved by acceptance and knowledge of the teachings of the quran and sunnah. This question was also raised and discussed in the thread 'prove the quran...' and I explained there that all legitimate differences of opinion extend only to subsidiary issues of Islamic law and the main cause of any doctrinal differences amongst heretical groups or individuals would be lack of knowledge or refusal to accept those sources of knowledge as valid, for example the rejection of the teachings of the Prophet.

http://www.islamicboard.com/785983-post22.html

The clarity of the Qur'an is not negated by the fact that Muslims have differences of opinion. It should be noted that the legitimate differences only extend to lesser fiqhi rulings, as opposed to doctrinal differences or differences over laws. Differences in opinion in the latter are the result of not reading parts in context, because the Qur'an clarifies itself.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ord-god-3.html

And also see this thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/30...ing-quran.html


I hope this has helped Insha'Allaah. I am quite sure there are many other useful posts, but they wll require some time with the search facility :).

Peace.

[Mithras]

which is not completely incorrect at that, rather this problem is not stemming from the messenger or the message, it is their personal decision not to follow & abuse the teachings.
although I do agree, something akin to a church has been established, many did not-and continue to not- understand Islam truly, and so seek to replicate earlier traditions. in no way is this representative of the qur'an's teachings though.

Peases explain "something akin to a church has been established,"

[alcurad]

a church here means a religious cast, with clergy and so on, both Sunni's and Shia's have created such, in the Shi'a's case it's quite obvious, less so for the Sunni mathahib, but church it is.
one scholars idea's are held constant, one group of people's opinions are held constant, then the later generations do nothing but regurgitate what those before had said.
they have taken the right to interpret the qur'an and sunna to themselves, anyone else is wrong and incorrect even if the differing view is more correct.

most mathahib have inherently consistent parts, many historically revered figures-sahaba as if they were all equal, the four imams etc- and many important events-the fitnah,battle of siffin etc- are off limits, this is perhaps one of the msot important reasons why this has happened.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Islam was meant to replace the old teachings of "the book" with a final easier to understand formulae, and as soon as the founder died the first schism occurred.
The most prolific ages of Islam were during Sufi leaders. Meanwhile modern Sunni sects are leading the "Ummah" towards a hurdle over which Christianity also fell, i.e. that a prophet's closest followers are the best examples to humanity.

I disagree with your statement - the most prolific ages of Islam were when the Muslim nation adhered to the teachings of Islam. Once the people preferred worldly luxuries and deviated away from the truth, this led to their demise.

I don't see how following a Prophet's closest followers is a "hurdle". This is something which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) himself told us to do, because the direct recipients of his message would understand it better than those who came after them. It is possible that in Christianity this became a problem, however, in Islam it is part of the solution: to go back to the way the message was understood by those (Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him))who exceeded us in knowledge, understanding and implementation of Islam; hence being regarded as the best of generations.

one scholars idea's are held constant, one group of people's opinions are held constant, then the later generations do nothing but regurgitate what those before had said.
they have taken the right to interpret the qur'an and sunna to themselves, anyone else is wrong and incorrect even if the differing view is more correct.

The issue of maddhabs is not relevant here. This is a kind of differing which is acceptable in Islam:

The followers of these madhhabs are agreed on most matters and on the most important issues of religion, and the differences in understanding and in the evidence that reached them have to do with minor issues. All of them are following something good, may Allaah have mercy on them.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/13189

The purpose of the maddhabs is not to replace the Qur'an and Sunnah - rather they themselves refer back to these sources, as it is obligatory to follow that which is indicated by the evidence of the Qur’an and Sunnah, and this too according to the understanding of the Companions and those who came after them More info here and also here. The mistakes that some people make in this regard should not be taken to represent all Muslims.



There is another kind of division involving misguided beliefs. I believe this is what the thread starter is referring to, hence below is a Q&A addressing this issue:


Quesion: Unity and Diversity in Islam. Islam has suffered splits and divisions to the faith, could you explain what these have been and why they have emerged. How is it that despite the differences in Islam, it has been possible for Muslims of different persuasions to feel a sense of unity?

Know, may Allaah guide us and you to the truth and enable us to follow it, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not die before he had shown the way clearly to his ummah [nation]. There was no major or minor matter but he gave us knowledge about it from Allaah. At the end of the last Hajj [pilgrimage] performed by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) there was revealed the aayah [verse] (interpretation of the meaning):

“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion” [al-Maa’idah 5:3]

The Sahaabah [Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him] (may Allaah be pleased with them) adhered very closely to this path, and thus Allaah protected the followers of Islam from splitting in this blameworthy manner.

They were followed in that by the Taabi’een [the generation that followed the generation of the Sahaabah] (may Allaah have mercy on them), but some internal and external factors led to the emergence of some reprehensible divisions following the three best generations.

Among the external causes of that were:

Mixing with other, non-Muslim nations, such as the Persians, Romans, Indians and Greeks, and contact with other religious groups such as Jews, Christians, Sabians, Magians, Indian religions and others.

Among the internal causes were:

Following whims and desires, giving room to doubts, turning away from learning the religion and sharee’ah of Allaah, ignorance, extremism, and imitation of non-Muslims… etc.

All of these reasons, and others, led to some small groups splitting from the right path which the majority of the Muslims followed, so there emerged some groups, innovations and opinions that differed from the path of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Companions, and the Taabi’een and those who followed their path.

But we may note that these groups and factions were in fact a discordant note that differed from the majority of Muslims, and their followers were shunned and opposed by the scholars, khulafaa’ [khaleefahs or Muslim rulers] and majority of Muslims, which meant that they were contained and their influence was prevented from becoming widespread during most periods of Islamic history.

The majority of Muslims remained on the Sunni path – in general – and when forms of bid’ah (innovation) emerged among them, the scholars of truth have always hastened to oppose them and point out their falsehood. Our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that these divisions would emerge; he warned us about them and commanded us to adhere to the jamaa’ah [main body] of the Muslims. He said: “The Jews and the Christians split into seventy-two sects, all of which are in Hell; this ummah [nation] will split into seventy-three sects, all of which will be in Hell apart from one.” They asked, “Which one is that, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “Those who follow the path which I and my Companions are on today.” He said, “A group of my ummah will remain following the truth and will prevail, and those who oppose them will not harm them, until the Day of Judgement begins.”

There are many reasons why the Muslims have always felt a sense of unity, some of which we have mentioned above. But the most obvious reason is that this religion comes from Allaah and it is protected by Allaah. If any other religion had been exposed to the wars, conspiracies and plots that Islam has been exposed to, it would have vanished a long time ago (as we see in the case of other religions). Every rational person will see that a belief which for more than 1400 years has stayed exactly the same as it was at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and is still renewing itself in the hearts of its followers (in love and adherence) like the renweing of a flower in spring – this is the strongest evidence that the religion of Allaah is the true religion. And Allaah is the Guide to the Straight Path.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/6280

Peace.

[alcurad]

there was no such thing as Sunni until Mu'tazili thought was suppressed. the Hanafi mathhab for example is closer to Mu'tazili and at times Shiite thought than the Hanbali and Shafi'i.
I was answering mithras's question, and the issue of mathahib is quite relevant, notice the first post was asking why the disagreements.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

there was no such thing as Sunni until Mu'tazili thought was suppressed.

Isn't Sunni someone who follows the Sunnah? By this definition, Sunnis have existed since the time of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam).

the Hanafi mathhab for example is closer to Mu'tazili and at times Shiite thought than the Hanbali and Shafi'i.

You might be confusing the followers with the Maddhab here. See this link I provided above.

I was answering mithras's question, and the issue of mathahib is quite relevant, notice the first post was asking why the disagreements.

Yes, and in my post, I said there were two different types of disagreements - one is valid and the other is not. Let's not go off-topic by talking about the valid differences of opinion. Let's also try to keep this thread focused on the Qur'an as a source of Islam.

:w:

[Civilsed]

If the Quran is indeed the final message of God to humans how come it has divided Islamic followers over it's message?

Peace be with you Mithras,

Allah (SWT) says in the holy Quran - Surat Al Imran verse 103

"Hold firm to the rope of Allah and be NOT devided".

The Rope of Allah is the Quran and the Sunnah (of our beloved Mohammed PBUH).

Also and Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said in his final sermon " I leave you 2 things The Quran and my Sunnah hold on to these as Satan will not lead you astray"

Allah Also commands us to Obey allah and his Prophet. And in another verse "If you disagree on an Issue Return it to Allah(the Quran) and him Prophet PBUH (Sunnah/Hadith)

If indeed Muslims were to adhere to this thenthere would be NO division. Unfortunately this has (obviously) not been the case. Muslims need to go back to the Quran and the sunnah (which are both Perfect) and ignore th innovations that have crept in.

Finally i would suggest looking at Islam that is Perfect and not some Muslims

[alcurad]

Al Ash'ari who was a Mu'tazili then renounced it, that time was probably the high point where the term ahlul sunna wal jama'a began to be used, sometime around the second century AH.
it is used nowadays to refer to most muslims, true, but there are major differences between the four/five mathahib to simply call them Sunni. notice that most mathahib, Sunni or otherwise claim to follow the sunna, and even amongst the scholars of a single mathhab there are at times different methodologies for determining what is sunnah.
anyhow, to state that there are two types of disagreement then to term one not valid is suspect at best, what is the basis for forbidding this other than making certain topics off limits?
but since this thread is not specifically about such matters, I will not discuss it further unless asked to.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Brother alcurad, the issue of the differing in madhabs is due to its validity on fiqh issues of halaal and haraam.

In regard to 'aqeedah, beliefs - then there is not to be a difference of opinion on that, since Islam unites us on these beliefs.


Allahu a'lam.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

but there are major differences between the four/five mathahib to simply call them Sunni.

I wanted you to read this link:

Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah are not to be regarded as opposition to the Maalikis, Shaafa’is, Hanbalis and the like, rather they are opposed to the followers of innovated and misguided beliefs and ways such as the Ash’aris, Mu’tazilis, Murji’is, Sufis and so on. The Hanafis, Maalikis, Shaafa’is and Hanbalis are schools of fiqh, whose imams are among Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, and indeed are among the leaders of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. But unfortunately the followers of most of those madhhabs and schools of fiqh have begun to follow the people of innovation and misguidance in their beliefs...

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/69836

anyhow, to state that there are two types of disagreement then to term one not valid is suspect at best, what is the basis for forbidding this other than making certain topics off limits?
but since this thread is not specifically about such matters, I will not discuss it further unless asked to.

I don't fully understand your question. What I was trying to say is that on the one hand we have differences in Fiqh, while on the other there is innovation and misguidance. The first type of differing isn't seen as a division in the Ummah, whereas the second one is. So as this thread is asking about the division in the Ummah, I thought the issue about Fiqhi differences was irrelevant here because that type of differing is not a problem. I am by no means an expert on this though. Allaah (swt) knows best.

:w: