My Qur'an Questions

[reasonableph8th]

I figured I'd start out my own thread where I can come back to for asking questions. :D

Let me begin by saying that yes, I am a Christian. But let me also tell you that I do have respect for Muslims, Islam, and the Qur'an. I will tell you that I am very impressed by the textual transmission and preservation of the Qur'an. Textual criticism is one of my areas of study, and I am indeed impressed by the Qur'an's textual attestation.

What I am wanting to do is an honest and open investigation of the Qur'an. It is my belief that there are many things contained within that can be a boon to my understanding of, of course, Islam, but also of my own faith. I just want to have a place where I can openly ask questions about the Qur'an and things that it says as I go through it. Please do not misinterpret my motives - this is not a slight-of-hand trick to expose 'flaws' that I may think I find in the Qur'an. Everything I write here will be honest questions for the purpose of my own understanding.

My first question was (in another thread) if there's any passages in the Qur'an that casts Muhammad in a bad light or reveals any of his sin. It didn't yield many answers, though. I was told that there was 'one place where Allah corrected him', but that was it. So if you have anything to add to that discussion, please feel free to do so.

My reasoning was this: one of the (many) things that gives credence to the Bible is that the authors included embarrassing details about themselves and quite openly revealed their sin. If one were making up a story, then he would not usually (if ever) invent such monumental character flaws of himself - the author would usually portray himself in a good light. I was looking to see if the Qur'an had this same type of attestation to lend to its credibility. If not, fine - that's not a watershed point - but I was just curious whether it did or not.

BUT... this is the question that prompts me to begin this thread:

How much of the Qur'an is narrative and how much is teachings? (a rough, but educated guess is fine - preferably from one qualified to make such an estimate, though).


Thank you.

[Caller الداعي]

hi
i think the best thing for u to do would be to read a commentry on the quran 1stly that will give u a good background on the quran and its teachings also how it was revealed how it was compiled and how it was passed on down the generations.

[Civilsed]

Peace be with you,

As Muslims, we must understand how our adored Prophet (saws) led people to Islam and we must implement his example in our daily lives. His character was so impeccable that when he “frowned” to a blind man, Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala (the Exalted and Glorified) reminded him that a frown is far from the dominion of Islam.

This incident led to the revelation of the eightieth surah (chapter) of the Holy Qur'an, Surat `Abasa, (He Frowned). The Prophet Muhammad (saws) was sitting with several of the important leaders of Makkah, intently engaged in conveying the message of Islam to them. A blind man named `Abdallah Ibn Umm Maktum approached him to seek Islamic guidance. The Prophet (saws) was repeatedly interrupted by Ibn Umm Maktum and finally turned slightly away from the blind man to continue talking to the leaders of Quraysh. Allah (swt) reprimanded the Prophet (saws) by commanding:

Surat Abasa
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

The (Prophet) frowned and turned away. (1) Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting). (2) But what could tell thee but that perchance he might Grow (in spiritual understanding)? (3) Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him? (4) As to one who regards himself as self-sufficient, (5) To him dost thou attend; (6) Though it is no blame to thee if he grow not (in spiritual understanding). (7) But as to him who came to thee striving earnestly, (8) And with fear (in his heart) (9) Of him wast thou unmindful. (10) By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction

[aadil77]

Thats the first Q answered ^ nice one

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[_ALI_]

Salam

BUT... this is the question that prompts me to begin this thread:

How much of the Qur'an is narrative and how much is teachings? (a rough, but educated guess is fine - preferably from one qualified to make such an estimate, though).

I have never counted the narrative verses and teaching verses so I guess I cannot answer the question. However, I will say that whenever Quran gives a narrative, it teaches us something through that narrative, so I don't think we can separate narrative from teachings.
Peace

[wth1257]

My first question was (in another thread) if there's any passages in the Qur'an that casts Muhammad in a bad light or reveals any of his sin. It didn't yield many answers, though. I was told that there was 'one place where Allah corrected him', but that was it. So if you have anything to add to that discussion, please feel free to do so.

My reasoning was this: one of the (many) things that gives credence to the Bible is that the authors included embarrassing details about themselves and quite openly revealed their sin. If one were making up a story, then he would not usually (if ever) invent such monumental character flaws of himself - the author would usually portray himself in a good light. I was looking to see if the Qur'an had this same type of attestation to lend to its credibility. If not, fine - that's not a watershed point - but I was just curious whether it did or not.

It corrects him a few times I believe. I think at one point it rebukes him for trying to intercede for the souls of some dead when such is Allah's domain alone. Surah 80 has Allah rebuking Muhammad for ignoring a blind man in trying to sway a Quarish cheif.

1. He frowned and turned away,

2. Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).

3. And what would make you know that he would purify himself,

4. Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him?

5. As for him who thinks himself self-sufficient

6. To him you attend

7. What does it matter to you if he does not become purified?

8. But as for him who came to you running,

9. And is afraid( of Allah's punishment)

10. To him you are neglectful

11. No! Indeed these verses are a reminder

12. So whoever wills, let him pay attention to it







I think there are a few others

[reasonableph8th]

Thank you all for the answers to my other question about Muhammad. As for the other:

Salam

I have never counted the narrative verses and teaching verses so I guess I cannot answer the question. However, I will say that whenever Quran gives a narrative, it teaches us something through that narrative, so I don't think we can separate narrative from teachings.
Peace

Thank you for the answer, but in the Bible, all narratives teaches us something. The story of Naaman being healed through Elisha is a perfect example. Totally narrative, but a GREAT lesson is taught through it. Same in the Injeel with Isa calming the storm on the sea of Galilee. Pure narrative, but with great application. So I'm not asking you to separate narrative from teachings but... well, let me put it another way: how much of the Quran is 'stories' or 'events?' Again, for example, almost the entire book of Chronicles (if not all) are stories or events (narrative). Can anyone say how much (general idea is fine) of the Quran is accounts, stories, or events? If not, that's fine... I'll have another question or two soon.

Thanks!

[alcurad]

not much of it is stories if that is what you mean, but there are long passages containing stories.
but here is the thing, some stories are repeated, but from different angles or with other details thus the story/narrative is told to support the particular teaching/s. even the order of events is not so important as the message, so the narrative is interspersed with teachings.
stories are not told for the sake of telling or as historical accounts as much as to support the teachings.

[reasonableph8th]

Thank you very much.

Another question: while there are these stories given, are there ever any claims in the Quran that say there were eyewitnesses to these stories? In the light of what Alcurad said (very nicely, too; thank you) it would appear that it's not that big of a deal to the stories, their validity, or the moral purpose behind them. For the Bible, it's a big deal. And again, I'm not here trying to disprove the Quran by any means - NOT my goal - I just need to make sure that what I'm telling another person is indeed true (due to my limited knowledge of the Quran). I'm sharing with him some of the differences between the Bible and the Quran. He (an atheist) said that the Quran claims to have eyewitness, too. Not a big deal, but I don't think it does, does it?

And once again, my goal is not to disprove or even cast the Quran in a bad light at all, so please do not be offended. Thank you.

[wth1257]

Thank you very much.

Another question: while there are these stories given, are there ever any claims in the Quran that say there were eyewitnesses to these stories? In the light of what Alcurad said (very nicely, too; thank you) it would appear that it's not that big of a deal to the stories, their validity, or the moral purpose behind them. For the Bible, it's a big deal. And again, I'm not here trying to disprove the Quran by any means - NOT my goal - I just need to make sure that what I'm telling another person is indeed true (due to my limited knowledge of the Quran). I'm sharing with him some of the differences between the Bible and the Quran. He (an atheist) said that the Quran claims to have eyewitness, too. Not a big deal, but I don't think it does, does it?

And once again, my goal is not to disprove or even cast the Quran in a bad light at all, so please do not be offended. Thank you.

I guess the most obvious question is why you don't simply read the Qur'an? I mean you say you have no ulterior motive but your issues are ones I often read in Christian apolagetics books and you continually slip in a perceived "improvement", that it an issue where the Bible is superior to the Qur'an on a particular issue. I have had my motives question before and I know it can be hurtful and unfair so I don't want to go down that road, I simply wish to note that your means of questioning could be viewed as somewhat at odds with your stated goals. For all the stories I'd assume th

at there were viewers is implicit. Unless somehow the Exodus affair to supposed to have taken place without anyone paying attention.

[coddles76]

My first question was (in another thread) if there's any passages in the Qur'an that casts Muhammad in a bad light or reveals any of his sin

Allah SWT has informed us through the prophet Muhammad:-

[Quran 3:144]"Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude"

This was revealed to wipe out the issue of anybody worshipping the Prophet and clearly states he is but a messenger only coming to bring law and guidance to humanity. It removes any credit upon himself and points all credit to our creator who created him and all creation.

How much of the Qur'an is narrative and how much is teachings? (a rough, but educated guess is fine - preferably from one qualified to make such an estimate, though)

The entire Quran is a revelation of teachings, It teaches and guides us throughout our daily lives and refers to many subjects including finance, marriage, health, love, knowledge, science etc etc.

[Imam]

Another question: while there are these stories given, are there ever any claims in the Quran that say there were eyewitnesses to these stories?

No there aren't ..but it doesn't matter .... read what is next...

In the light of what Alcurad said (very nicely, too; thank you) it would appear that it's not that big of a deal to the stories, their validity, or the moral purpose behind them.

The validity of the stories depends on the validity of the source in which we read them..... once the source proved to be Inerrant,miracelous ...that would be the best witness to such stories.

I'm sharing with him some of the differences between the Bible and the Quran. He (an atheist) said that the Quran claims to have eyewitness, too.

If he believes the Quran claims to have eyewitness why don't he believe in their report?

the answer :cause he needs more than mere eyewitnesses !
eg;Inerrant,miracelous work

for me, I believe apart from the Quran ,there is no other book on Earth to satisfy that need...

peace

[reasonableph8th]

I guess the most obvious question is why you don't simply read the Qur'an?

Excellent question (and like you said, obvious). I am, actually, in the process of reading it but 1) have not yet finished and 2) am appealing to those who know it better than I do - or even would after reading it, especially since I'm not reading it in the original language.

I mean you say you have no ulterior motive but your issues are ones I often read in Christian apolagetics books and you continually slip in a perceived "improvement", that it an issue where the Bible is superior to the Qur'an on a particular issue. I have had my motives question before and I know it can be hurtful and unfair so I don't want to go down that road, I simply wish to note that your means of questioning could be viewed as somewhat at odds with your stated goals.

I know, and that's why I'm repeatedly trying to state my purpose and keep everyone at ease that it is not my goal here to downplay the Qur'an at all. I appreciate you being kind to me and not questioning my motives, as you say, and I assure you I mean nothing but respect and true understanding of the Qur'an and what it contains. Thank you.

For all the stories I'd assume that there were viewers is implicit. Unless somehow the Exodus affair to supposed to have taken place without anyone paying attention.

Yeah, you'd assume, wouldn't you? lol... but that isn't enough for the skeptic. When one assumes the stories were made up, then anything contained within is not credible to them - even claims of eyewitnesses. That's what I'm working on with him, though...

If he believes the Quran claims to have eyewitness why don't he believe in their report?

the answer :cause he needs more than mere eyewitnesses !
eg;Inerrant,miracelous work

Well he is stating that our books claim to have eyewitnesses - but he does not believe that they really do have eyewitnesses that validate the accounts. I'm trying to show him otherwise...

Thanks again for the help, all!