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dilkadr
03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
Love is Beautiful Gown of Lust
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Sahabiyaat
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
how can something as beautiful as love, grow out of something lowly as lust?

I disagree.
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dilkadr
03-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Well, aren't they 2 faces of same coin ?:rolleyes:
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Mikayeel
03-15-2009, 11:02 AM
:sl:

Should it not be that lust is grown out of love?
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Sahabiyaat
03-15-2009, 11:17 AM
^o) yup i think so too.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
03-15-2009, 05:14 PM
:sl:

Ibn Hazm put it beautifully:
If the cause of Love were physical beauty, the consequence would be that no body defective in any shape or form would attract admiration; yet we know of many a man actually preferring the inferior article, though well aware that another is superior, and quite unable to turn his heart away from it. Again, if Love were due to a harmony of characters, no man would love a person who was not of like purpose and in concord with him. We therefore conclude that Love is something within the soul itself. Sometimes, it is true, Love comes as a result of a definite cause outside the soul, but then it passes away when the cause itself disappears: one who is fond of you because of a certain circumstance will turn his back on you when that motive no longer exists.

[Tawq Al Hamamah]
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alcurad
03-15-2009, 05:30 PM
everyone's idea of physical beauty is different, 'lust' is mainly the basis for love. but then, there are many kinds of love, I'm talking about the one between spouses.
this doesn't subtract anything from love though, why should it? this is how w were made.
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Woodrow
03-15-2009, 05:43 PM
Love and lust differ as far removed from each other as the East is from the West. The physical attraction that forms out of love is not related to lust, it is a mutual sharing and a bond formed of love, trust and respect.

Lust is one sided and concentrates only upon satisfaction of the individual with no need or expectation of pleasing the other. It is a simple physical need that is no different then any other form of fulfilling a bodily function.

Lust will more often become a barrier to love, rather then love becoming the gown of lust.

If lust were the key to love, there would be no need to protect ourselves from lustful thoughts and behaviors. Rather it would be a reason to encourage things we consider obscene.
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alcurad
03-15-2009, 09:40 PM
what is considered obscene is allowed between husband and wife, we don't repress lustful behavior as much as channel it.
love begins as physical attraction, then evolves,,
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Zahida
03-15-2009, 10:10 PM
:sl: That is such a te and beautiful quote. Anyone with this kind of experience would agree.........:w::smile:
Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad
:sl:

Ibn Hazm put it beautifully:
If the cause of Love were physical beauty, the consequence would be that no body defective in any shape or form would attract admiration; yet we know of many a man actually preferring the inferior article, though well aware that another is superior, and quite unable to turn his heart away from it. Again, if Love were due to a harmony of characters, no man would love a person who was not of like purpose and in concord with him. We therefore conclude that Love is something within the soul itself. Sometimes, it is true, Love comes as a result of a definite cause outside the soul, but then it passes away when the cause itself disappears: one who is fond of you because of a certain circumstance will turn his back on you when that motive no longer exists.

[Tawq Al Hamamah]
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:02 AM
Originally Posted by Mikayeel
:sl:

Should it not be that lust is grown out of love?
No, not really.
Cause,
Everyone talks about love and seek opportunity to satisfy his/her lust.
Its based on my observations - maybe others have other points of views.
anyways, thanks for your contribution.
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Zahida
:sl: That is such a te and beautiful quote. Anyone with this kind of experience would agree.........:w::smile:
Thanks,
It is really a nice quote based on the reality of life and souls.
But such men are very few, my observation contradicts this basic instinct of human soul.
People are more body oriented now then soul oriented.
Regards,
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
what is considered obscene is allowed between husband and wife, we don't repress lustful behavior as much as channel it.
love begins as physical attraction, then evolves,,
Usually, it don't evolve after the physical gratification achieved.
It is common observation in present times :cry:
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Love and lust differ as far removed from each other as the East is from the West. The physical attraction that forms out of love is not related to lust, it is a mutual sharing and a bond formed of love, trust and respect.

Lust is one sided and concentrates only upon satisfaction of the individual with no need or expectation of pleasing the other. It is a simple physical need that is no different then any other form of fulfilling a bodily function.

Lust will more often become a barrier to love, rather then love becoming the gown of lust.

If lust were the key to love, there would be no need to protect ourselves from lustful thoughts and behaviors. Rather it would be a reason to encourage things we consider obscene.
Very well said bro,

I. In present time - media has unified many things in East and West, concept of love is very much influenced by the Western Media. I can be observed through cable TV channels [though it is not the whole world, but it is representative of popular opinion and lesson for the weak minds/souls] there is little difference in Western and Easter people.

II. Well, i mean to point our towards the fact that people are using love to hide their lust [or use love as mask for their heinous lusty desires].
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:28 AM
Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat
^o) yup i think so too.
and my observations are forcing me to believe it.
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dilkadr
03-16-2009, 04:31 AM
BTW Discussion is going healthy and strong,
Getting nice opinions
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aminahjaan
03-16-2009, 05:05 AM
Here's what Rumi (famous persian poet) said to this:
You know what love is?
It is all kindness, generosity.
Disharmony prevails when
You confuse lust with love, while
The distance between the two
Is endless.

I agree with it, love is totally different from lust.
Lust is inevitable however, when you're first attracted to someone. Love grows and faces things, and is a strong emotion. Lust isn't like that.
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Cabdullahi
03-16-2009, 05:37 PM
here is how i put it lust is what forces a couple to an one night stand ...and true love is what forces a couple to live together in peace and harmony ....the two should not be put together
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Muezzin
03-16-2009, 05:57 PM
Lust is selfish.

Love is selfless.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
03-16-2009, 06:45 PM
I dont agreeeee. If you claim u love someone and its nothing but physical, sorry to burst ur bubble dude but it aint love lol. Two completely different things. And the best love is love for Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. Althought there is different kinds of love, the concept is almost the same, which lust isn't! Does that make sense?
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_Rida_
03-16-2009, 06:52 PM
:salamext:

Definitely disagree.
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جوري
04-07-2009, 03:49 AM
I think you have chosen to define love in a very narrow margin.
love and lust are very separate animals -- further it would be interesting to see you take that definition and see how it applies to parents, siblings, children etc..

surely love can exist completely independent of physical needs...
lust is a basic need it is physical!
love is a highly evolved, refined emotion-- it isn't self-serving and there is nothing palpable to be gained from it!
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alcurad
04-07-2009, 05:21 AM
but sister Skye, isn't it along the line of you loving someone because it feels good to make them feel good,,
meh, this is going in circles.
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جوري
04-07-2009, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
but sister Skye, isn't it along the line of you loving someone because it feels good to make them feel good,,
meh, this is going in circles.
You can't take the 'feeling good' to the bank!
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Muhaba
04-07-2009, 03:13 PM
love and lust are both necessary for a healthy marriage imo.
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IbnAbdulHakim
04-07-2009, 03:26 PM
the brother said love is the GOWN of lust

ie love covers lust and makes its ugliness thereby making it lawful and good

rigHT?
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dilkadr
08-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by Fighting4Iman
the brother said love is the GOWN of lust

ie love covers lust and makes its ugliness thereby making it lawful and good

rigHT?
I mean to say people hide ugly face of their lust behind the beautiful mask of love
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dilkadr
08-06-2009, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by muhaba
love and lust are both necessary for a healthy marriage imo.
Sounds sensible but not inline with the original question
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dilkadr
08-06-2009, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Lust is selfish.

Love is selfless.
Very true but not inline with the original question
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Snowflake
08-06-2009, 11:53 PM
Love and lust are like darkness and light.

The feelings you experience in love are not lust but a physical manifestation of what is in your heart.

Lust is just basic animal instinct. It doesn't even touch upon love. It belongs to the body only. The two don't go together :hmm:
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syilla
08-07-2009, 01:34 AM
don't agree... what happened if the lust gone...the the love wouldn't be complete???

definitely don't agree. Love is not to show the lust but to show caring, loving, understanding, being nice, gentle and etc.
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Tony
08-07-2009, 04:44 AM
Lust has nothing to do with the natural desires that accompany love, Lust is just self satysfying urge. Love on the other hand is is the ability toput the welfare or conscern of another human being before the welfare of ones self. Becoming a parent or truly beleiving in Allah and Rasulullah (pbuh) is the best ways to experience it. Lust is a fleeting twist of emotion, Love is all encompassing and everlasting. So I would say, Lust is the seedy macintosh (rather than gown) of shatanic desires. Love needs no gown as itis beautiful enough already
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barrio79
08-07-2009, 04:55 AM
Originally Posted by Tony
Lust has nothing to do with the natural desires that accompany love, Lust is just self satysfying urge. Love on the other hand is is the ability toput the welfare or conscern of another human being before the welfare of ones self. Becoming a parent or truly beleiving in Allah and Rasulullah (pbuh) is the best ways to experience it. Lust is a fleeting twist of emotion, Love is all encompassing and everlasting. So I would say, Lust is the seedy macintosh (rather than gown) of shatanic desires. Love needs no gown as itis beautiful enough already
The basic problem is that when man was created he was given a brain and another item but only enough blood to run one at a time.
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Tony
08-07-2009, 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by barrio79
The basic problem is that when man was created he was given a brain and another item but only enough blood to run one at a time.
lol. well i dont agree but thats hella funny. Go watch cricket now, thats enough funny for one day. Peace
BTW how u manage to get -500 odd reps ???????????????
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Muezzin
08-07-2009, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by dilkadr
Very true but not inline with the original question
Love and lust are two very different things. One is not the gown for the other.
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Snowflake
08-07-2009, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
don't agree... what happened if the lust gone...the the love wouldn't be complete???

definitely don't agree. Love is not to show the lust but to show caring, loving, understanding, being nice, gentle and etc.

lol but lust isn't a part of love in the first place

when I said lust is just an animal need, consider it like having an itch on your back that needs to be scratched. It's all about you. Your need. Your want. A selfish desire that wants to be satisfied, i.e. look at the lifestyle in some cultures where people go clubbing etc with lots of them ending up spending the night with strangers, astaghfirullah.. that is nasty lust. See the difference?


But love, it isn't about you. Yeh you wanna be loved back. But more than that you want to give love to the other person. That is nothing like lust.


The physical feelings in love, are still feelings borne from love. They are a part of love and stem from the heart and soul to resonate in the body. Lust doesn't come from the heart lol. Don't confuse the two, cuz lust is just +o( :offended:
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celina
08-07-2009, 12:14 PM
Love comes with lust, however lust alone is worthless. I hope this sounds better.
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dilkadr
08-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by celina
Love is what is needed in a marriage because it has all the ingredients that makes a healthy relationship, some marriages only have lust and sometimes the husband/wife might mistaken it for love.
Yes, its true but not answering the question at hand.
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alcurad
08-07-2009, 04:58 PM
love is not lust, but is just as shellfish :)
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celina
08-07-2009, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by dilkadr
Yes, its true but not answering the question at hand.
Why do I keep getting shut out on this forum? I think in my answer I have distinguished between love and lust. Lust is greed and love is a completely different thing its beautiful.
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Snowflake
08-07-2009, 09:01 PM
I think the bro meant as in the question has nothing to do with marriage : )



Originally Posted by alcurad
love is not lust, but is just as shellfish :)
You can lob-ster that idea out the window :P


ok, interesting thought, please explain in what way? :?
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celina
08-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
I think the bro meant as in the question has nothing to do with marriage : )


:?
I was tallking about it on a lawful relationship basis sister.
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Ali_008
08-08-2009, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by celina
Love comes with lust, however lust alone is worthless. I hope this sounds better.
:sl:

I agree with this to some extent. If it was just lust then people would not cry rivers when they get seperated from their beloved. Lust can be satisfied with anyone whereas the agony of love is only relieved when you see your beloved. Even the physical attraction that grows out of love is not lust because its human nature that when you love someone you want to hold that person close to you. Have you never seen people embracing/hugging/kissing their pets? Does that mean they lust animals :?

Love and Lust are polls apart. Love is a very powerful emotion whereas Lust is powerful but temporary. Just because these days people in love get involved in physical relationships, it doesn't mean there's no love.

:w:
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alcurad
08-08-2009, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
You can lob-ster that idea out the window :P


ok, interesting thought, please explain in what way? :?
:/

well see, you love so that it makes you feel good, how is it not selfish then..
the 'but it can't be helped, so it's genuine and bountiful' argument is even more true of lust, so it doesn't count.
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Snowflake
08-09-2009, 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
:/

well see, you love so that it makes you feel good, how is it not selfish then..
the 'but it can't be helped, so it's genuine and bountiful' argument is even more true of lust, so it doesn't count.
I had a feeling you'd say that lol@underlined

You love someone because it makes you feel good? Hmm.. that could be true about chocolate but I can't imagine that about love. Love hurts too, but you still love. So it isn't about wanting to feel good. I don't know about other people's perception of love, but for me it's about wanting to make the other person happy cuz they mean so much to me, even though I know, they'd get more from me than I'd get from them. Do you still think there is an element of selfishness in that? :)
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alcurad
08-09-2009, 02:35 AM
actually that makes it even more sel-fish :)

you love even though it might/does hurt because you still think there is more benefit to it than harm, in the end we all have different limits, but limits they are.

this in no way detracts from love, rather being more in tune with yourself through another, sharing yourself with another, joining with them, literally and figuratively are IMHO quite beautiful expressions of selfishness and overcoming it in a way, you seek to make the other part of you so your selfishness is for them as well,, or something like that ^.

don't let anyone's words alone decide anything for you though, Love is Love, a feeling, so words and theories may explain it 'logically', but it's only in experiencing it do you understand it.
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Ali_008
08-09-2009, 06:47 AM
^^^ Bro alcurad, what you're talking about up there is lust. you lust because it makes you happy whereas when you love you can expect tonnes of pain. When lust hurts you, you can give it up but when you're in love and it starts to hurt, you're in this helpless situation where you can't do anything. You just love knowing that its hurting and you can't stop it no matter how much you want to get rid of those feelings. imsad
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dilkadr
08-09-2009, 08:42 AM
:sl:

Well, my question is still unanswered.

I do not want to know the difference between love and lust.

I just want to know, dose pure love exist or not?

Or it is lust which we name as love?

In my life I have not seen a single person who is in love for the sake of love. I see everyone wanna satisfy his or her lust at back end but label it as love on front end.

Maybe my observations are not complete but its what I have observed so far.

Well, carry on. Its going great.
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Ali_008
08-09-2009, 09:39 AM
^^^ pure unconditional love does exist. thats it!!!!

I hope your question is answered. :)
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celina
08-09-2009, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
^^^ pure unconditional love does exist. thats it!!!!

I hope your question is answered. :)
It does exist but not in everyone, depends on the person too, some men are very greedy they wouldn't even understand unconditional love this just my opinion it might not be answering the question but its true.
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Muezzin
08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Put it this way: You can stop lusting after someone. It's temporary, because it is solely about you. After a while, it will wear off, because you will find something else to take your fancy.

You can never truly stop loving someone, be it romantic, parental, fraternic, platonic etc. It's permanent, because it's about more than you. It never wears off, even though it might go through rough patches.
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Ali_008
08-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by celina
It does exist but not in everyone, depends on the person too, some men are very greedy they wouldn't even understand unconditional love this just my opinion it might not be answering the question but its true.
Sister the question was whether there's true love or not and the answer is yes. If people don't accept it then its their hypocrisy, evil, or whatever you wanna call it. It is most likely that when there's true love, its not gonna get acknowledged and thats when the pain and grief pops up. which is why instead of hurting ourselves by loving mortals, we must love Allah and his Rasool to keep all the exasperation away. :exhausted Thats the only investment with guaranteed returns.
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celina
08-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
Sister the question was whether there's true love or not and the answer is yes. If people don't accept it then its their hypocrisy, evil, or whatever you wanna call it. It is most likely that when there's true love, its not gonna get acknowledged and thats when the pain and grief pops up. which is why instead of hurting ourselves by loving mortals, we must love Allah and his Rasool to keep all the exasperation away. :exhausted Thats the only investment with guaranteed returns.
I never said there's not true love brother, there is and I agree with you, to love we must love Allah (swt) and his messenger nabi paak (pbuh).
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alcurad
08-09-2009, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
When lust hurts you, you can give it up but when you're in love and it starts to hurt...You just love knowing that its hurting and you can't stop it no matter how much you want to get rid of those feelings. imsad
hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?
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Snowflake
08-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
actually that makes it even more sel-fish :)

you love even though it might/does hurt because you still think there is more benefit to it than harm, in the end we all have different limits, but limits they are.

this in no way detracts from love, rather being more in tune with yourself through another, sharing yourself with another, joining with them, literally and figuratively are IMHO quite beautiful expressions of selfishness and overcoming it in a way, you seek to make the other part of you so your selfishness is for them as well,, or something like that ^.

don't let anyone's words alone decide anything for you though, Love is Love, a feeling, so words and theories may explain it 'logically', but it's only in experiencing it do you understand it.
But the word 'selfish'is used to describe someone who wants/thinks for own self only - own own needs and reasons without any concern for the other. In love you concern yourself with the other person's concerns. You think of ways to bring them joy and ease. You support them to the best of your ability. You do these things without thinking once what you will get back. If you still believe that wanting to see someone happy is another facet of selfishness (although all dictionary definitions would disagree) then every human who has walked on this earth would be called 'selfish'. Prophets (peace be upon them) included as did they not suffer to bring us the message for our own good? So there is simply no way you can label love as a selfish need. It involves a lot of giving and sacrifice.


I also disagree with you saying that a person still loves because they see more benefit in it than harm. Wrong, wrong, wrong! lol. Firstly you don't think of benefits before falling in love. It just happens. You deal with the losses later. If you weigh up the pros and cons it's not love but trade.



Originally Posted by alcurad
hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?
SubhanAllah!! I don't know where you're getting your ideas from but firstly, we are born knowing and loving Allah before we even know His attributes. That is our fitrah. So everything else you said makes no sense as we do not need to form an image of Him to love Him. And to say even loving Allah is not free from the sexual nature of love? I feel angry reading those words. How can you associate such rubbish with Allah. Please keep such ideas to yourself next time. :raging:
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Salahudeen
08-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?

hmmm I'm going to have to disagree with you, all that drives me is when I think about jannah and narr, or when I think about the angels watching and recording. :hmm: what motivates me to behave the way I do is my aim to get to jannah. These things are what motivate and drive me not a "sexual need" I don't understand what you mean by that

do you mean behind everything we do/want sexual need is the reason, is that what you are saying???:hmm:
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alcurad
08-10-2009, 12:04 AM
eh =_=, i see i didn't make my words clearer, sorry.

what I meant was, in defining human actions, there are certain values that humans follow in all societies and civilizations:
they all begin with values that govern the need for reproduction, or more precisely the values of taste-beautiful, not beautiful and whatever lies in between-

then there are values concerning sustenance-good, bad-

then values of thought-truth and non truth-

then work-freedom and its opposite, or choice and no choice-

and finally existence itself, defined as the collection of all previous values, in short their amalgamation defines our existence. and they are quite hierarchical, for example, you can't have freedom of choice until you can differentiate between good and bad, and so on.

thus the first from which all the others proceed is the values of taste, the values that majorly guide sexuality and restrain/channel it, not that those values are only 'sexual', but they depend on it/are concerned with it.
we keep evolving, from children to half adults to fully mature, and so do our societies, from primitive and almost entirely dependent on the weather and geography to farming and permanent or seasonal villages, to cities and finally to full fledged 'civilizations'.

in that evolution, it all begins with the most basic and primal instincts, of which we call 'Fitrah'. this fitrah-if properly preserved- leads us through that five-tiered hierarchy of values, all beginning with the instincts of survival and reproduction, which decidedly take a sexual overtone in the beginning.

not that the existential values-of which concern God and that which is beyond humans-are sexual in nature, but they do depend on it since it all begins there. love is harder to pinpoint, since it involves many of them, certainly love of God is decidedly different than loving a spouse or child, but certainly there is overlap since it is all 'love'.

I hope that made sense.
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abu_musab461
08-10-2009, 12:09 AM
People often fall into the trap of thinking in the western mentality that lust is wrong and evil and lowly etc...

Because lust as we know it has always been seen out of marriage-

zina, adutary, homosexuality etc

Lust in marriage is permissible.

It might be a case that a husband and wife both feel lust for one another and this is good and pure.

not lowly and impure.
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alcurad
08-10-2009, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
But the word 'selfish'is used to describe someone who wants/thinks for own self only... In love you concern yourself with the other person's concerns. You think of ways to bring them joy and ease. You support them to the best of your ability. You do these things without thinking once what you will get back... Prophets (peace be upon them) included as did they not suffer to bring us the message for our own good? So there is simply no way you can label love as a selfish need. It involves a lot of giving and sacrifice.


If you weigh up the pros and cons it's not love but trade.
I am re-defining the dictionary definition here it seems:/
self benefit is a major driver of human actions, heaven and hell are clear examples of that I'd think. but of course that's not all there is to it, I simply wished to make the link between love and desire clearer.
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The Ruler
08-10-2009, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by dilkadr
I just want to know, dose pure love exist or not?
To those who experienced it, it does; to those who haven't, it does not. It's simply seeing things through various perspectives. From one who has 'loved' -whatever that may be- they know that love exists, and it takes the form of a person, an object or whatever.
... And from the perspective of one who hasn't loved, 'love' simply is a word that's spelt with an el, an o, a vee and an ee. That's all it is. Perhaps it's out there in the atmosphere swinging amogst the many air molecules, invisible to the naked eye.

Or it is lust which we name as love?
Love results in lust. I think. To differentiate between the two, simple lust gives a man a boner, and makes a woman go crazy. Love makes a woman emo, and a man on his knees asking for her hand in marriage.

In my life I have not seen a single person who is in love for the sake of love. I see everyone wanna satisfy his or her lust at back end but label it as love on front end.
You see the front end and the back end of peoples' relationships? I believe a man would normally lust after a woman if the general concensus is that she's beautiful. Lust is mostly about the body. Actually, it's probably all about the physical attributes. Whereas love, as I see it, has it's roots in character, personality... money... to mention a few.
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alcurad
08-10-2009, 12:42 AM
you know, that's not half bad. no beating the bush round like i do, hmm.
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Salahudeen
08-10-2009, 12:51 AM
lol you just spin my head bro with all them big words and complicated lines.

< feels unclever after reading your posts :(
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alcurad
08-10-2009, 01:06 AM
not that much bro =_= sometimes i read too much philosophy for my own peace of mind..
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Snowflake
08-10-2009, 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by alcurad
eh =_=, i see i didn't make my words clearer, sorry.

what I meant was, in defining human actions, there are certain values that humans follow in all societies and civilizations:
they all begin with values that govern the need for reproduction, or more precisely the values of taste-beautiful, not beautiful and whatever lies in between-

then there are values concerning sustenance-good, bad-

then values of thought-truth and non truth-

then work-freedom and its opposite, or choice and no choice-

and finally existence itself, defined as the collection of all previous values, in short their amalgamation defines our existence. and they are quite hierarchical, for example, you can't have freedom of choice until you can differentiate between good and bad, and so on.

thus the first from which all the others proceed is the values of taste, the values that majorly guide sexuality and restrain/channel it, not that those values are only 'sexual', but they depend on it/are concerned with it.
we keep evolving, from children to half adults to fully mature, and so do our societies, from primitive and almost entirely dependent on the weather and geography to farming and permanent or seasonal villages, to cities and finally to full fledged 'civilizations'.

in that evolution, it all begins with the most basic and primal instincts, of which we call 'Fitrah'. this fitrah-if properly preserved- leads us through that five-tiered hierarchy of values, all beginning with the instincts of survival and reproduction, which decidedly take a sexual overtone in the beginning.

not that the existential values-of which concern God and that which is beyond humans-are sexual in nature, but they do depend on it since it all begins there. love is harder to pinpoint, since it involves many of them, certainly love of God is decidedly different than loving a spouse or child, but certainly there is overlap since it is all 'love'.

I hope that made sense.
It's not anymore clearer than the previous post. It sounds like the ramblings of a senile old professor to me. Why don't you just read the Qur'an. At least it makes sense. :mmokay:



abu_musab461 Re: Love & Lust

People often fall into the trap of thinking in the western mentality that lust is wrong and evil and lowly etc...

Because lust as we know it has always been seen out of marriage-

zina, adutary, homosexuality etc

Lust in marriage is permissible.

It might be a case that a husband and wife both feel lust for one another and this is good and pure.

not lowly and impure.
No, I don't agree. Desire for someone you love isn't lust. Love is borne in the heart. Lust is a physical condition like hunger/thirst. It never stems from the heart, always from physical need. If there is lust in marriage, yes it's permissable, but it isn't love.
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جوري
08-10-2009, 03:42 AM
^^ so you mean that sexual acts are borne of base need rather than love?
I think you can espouse love and lust without having it be a one sided self-indulgent act..
by the way I am kind of hating the direction of this thread, but I am amused by the thoughts of others on it, including that of the OP.. since I find the very definition faulty, and I have addressed why in my previous post here...

:w:
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alcurad
08-10-2009, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I think you have chosen to define love in a very narrow margin.
love and lust are very separate animals -- further it would be interesting to see you take that definition and see how it applies to parents, siblings, children etc..

...love is a highly evolved, refined emotion...
yes, ditto to above.
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dilkadr
08-10-2009, 11:44 AM
:sl:
I think love is a ghost.

Everyone talks about it.

Nobody founds it.

Keep contributing your valuable ideas.
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Snowflake
08-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Gossamer skye;1199202]^^ so you mean that sexual acts are borne of base need rather than love?
No, that's not what I meant. I'm saying that lust is borne from primal instinct whereas the desire to be physically close to the person you love is borne from love itself. I believe physical desire for the person you love is miles apart from lust. To me they are totally two different things.

I think you can espouse love and lust without having it be a one sided self-indulgent act..
I think the disagreements here are a result of each of us having their own definition of what lust means to us. For me love and physical desire for the person you love isn't defined as lust.


by the way I am kind of hating the direction of this thread :w:
lol yup.. I think this arguement can go on til the cows come home and beyond.. I don't think I have anything left to say here.



Originally Posted by dilkadr
:sl:
I think love is a ghost.

Everyone talks about it.

Nobody founds it.

Keep contributing your valuable ideas.
That's just your opinion bro.



over & out...
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syilla
08-11-2009, 01:28 AM
:salamext:

How do you answer your spouse...after doing 'it'. Is it because of lust or because of love :hmm:

I'll not be talking to him...if he said it is because of lust... huhuhu
Reply

Ali_008
08-11-2009, 04:49 AM
Ahem, I think, firstly, the thread starter opened this thread to just discuss whats between a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. We started talking about our families, pets etc and we went off-topic there. I hope this example helps all. When I walk on the road and I see a hoarding where a girl is lying on a car with her hair open, scanty clothing and kilos of make up, I'd want that girl. She'll make me forget everything and just think of her for sometime. Now why do I want her here? Whats the feeling thats driving me in this case? LUST! LUST! LUST!:raging: :raging: :raging:

Lust can pop up anywhere. Love takes time. Loves like a beautiful snake, it stays calm in his circle, waits for you to get close and while admiring its beauty you reach his target and then he strikes, strangling you from all sides. You're helpless here, you can't escape and you can't even blame anyone because you shouldn't have come close to it in the first place when you knew its a snake.:omg:

Originally Posted by The Ruler
To those who experienced it, it does; to those who haven't, it does not. It's simply seeing things through various perspectives. From one who has 'loved' -whatever that may be- they know that love exists, and it takes the form of a person, an object or whatever.
... And from the perspective of one who hasn't loved, 'love' simply is a word that's spelt with an el, an o, a vee and an ee. That's all it is. Perhaps it's out there in the atmosphere swinging amogst the many air molecules, invisible to the naked eye.

Love results in lust. I think. To differentiate between the two, simple lust gives a man a boner, and makes a woman go crazy. Love makes a woman emo, and a man on his knees asking for her hand in marriage.
Firstly sis, you wrote exactly what I wanted to say. Secondly, awesome signature.
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