The Question of Where is Allah

[Al Qalam]

I hear this question a lot, especially from people who are curious about Islam. There question is: "Where is Allah?"

I don't really know how to answer that question yet. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how a good Muslim answers this question?

[Dawud_uk]

I hear this question a lot, especially from people who are curious about Islam. There question is: "Where is Allah?"

I don't really know how to answer that question yet. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how a good Muslim answers this question?

Allah is above his throne, over the creation in a way that befits his majesty.

we do not say how, or anything such as then we are saying something Allah hasnt said in his quran or muhammad saws has said in the sunnah.

so stick to what is mentioned in the quran repeatedly, Allah is above his throne and anyone else who tells you different is trying to put their own explaination on the Quran where Allah and his rasool (saws) havent explained and where the sahabah left well alone for precisely this reason.

i have some good articles on this but am at parents in a different city so will have to wait a few days unless someone else answers well first.

i also believe it was imam abu hanifa who was asked about those who question Allah being above the creation, over his throne and he said they are disbelievers as is known by necessity.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I hear this question a lot, especially from people who are curious about Islam. There question is: "Where is Allah?"

I don't really know how to answer that question yet. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how a good Muslim answers this question?

:sl:

He is where He has informed us He is, above His Throne, above the heavens. This was the belief of the Messenger (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam), his Companions and all the early Muslims, including the four Imaams, Abu Hanifa, Malik, ash-Shafiee, and Ahmad b. Hanbal.

Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Hurayrah (radi Allaah `anhu) said that the Messenger of Allah (Salalaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

لَمَّا قَضَى اللهُ الْخَلْقَ كَتَبَ فِي كِتَابٍ فَهُوَ عِنْدَهُ فَوْقَ الْعَرْشِ: إِنَّ رَحْمَتِي غَلَبَتْ غَضَبِي

"When Allah finished with the creation, He wrote in a Book that He has with Him above the Throne, `My mercy prevails over My anger.'"

This hadeeth is also found in the Saheeh of Imaam al-Bukhari, #2974.

It was narrated that Ibn Mas`ood (radi Allaah `anhu) said:

عن ابن مسعود قال : بين السماء الدنيا والتي تليها خمسمائة عام وبين كل سماء خمسمائة عام ، وبين السماء السابعة والكرسي خمسمائة عام ، وبين الكرسي والماء خمسمائة عام ، والعرش فوق الماء ، والله فوق العرش لا يخفى عليه شيء من أعمالكم

Between the first heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between each of the heavens is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the seventh heaven and the Kursee is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Kursee and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years, and the Throne is above the water. and Allaah is above the Throne, and nothing whatsoever of your deeds is hidden from Him.

It's reported by Ibn Khuzaymah (At-Tawheed, 105); Al-Bayhaqee (Al-Asmaa’ wa’s-Sifaat, 401)

It's saheeh by Ibn Al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ Al-Juyoosh Al-Islamiyyah and Ad-Dhahabee in Al-‘Uluw

Ash-Shafiee said:

"the belief that I am upon, and I saw Our Companions, the Ashaabul Hadeeth - like Maalik and Sufyaan and others - to be upon is: affirming the testimony that none has the right to be worshipped except Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah. And that Allaah is Over His Throne, above His Heaven (alaa Arshihi fee Samaa’ihi), He comes close to His Creation howsoever He Wills, and He Descends to the lowest heaven howsoever He Wills."

‘Awn al-Ma’bood’ (13/41), and ibn Abu Ya’la reports it in ‘Tabaqaat al-Hanaabilaa’ (1/283) with a chain of narration linked back to ash-Shaafi’ee.

And Imaam at-Tirmidhee (d.279) said,

"It has been stated by more than one person from the People of Knowledge about such ahaadeeth, that there is no tashbeeh to the Attributes of Allaah, and our Lord - the Blessed and Most High - Descends to the lowest heaven every night. So they say: affirm these narrations, have faith in them, do not deny them or ask how. The likes of this has been related from Maalik bin Anas, Sufyaan ath-Thawree, Ibn Uyaynah and Abdullaah bin al-Mubaarak, who all said about such ahaadeeth, ‘leave them as they are without asking how.’ Such is the saying of the People of Knowledge from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa’ah..."

‘Sunan at-Tirmidhee’ (3/42)

This is the belief of Ahlus Sunnah, from the early Muslims to present day. You may also want to check this post, a chapter from the book of Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal, entitled: 'The Refutation of the Heretics and the Jahmiyyah', chapter: 'Where Allah is and Where He is Not':

http://www.islamicboard.com/1105783-post21.html

:w:

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

I'm going to close this thread, but before I do, I'd just like to clarify to the thread starter that the narrations that speak about the Names and Attributes of Allaah are to be taken upon their dhaahir (apparent) meaning in the Arabic language.

Shaykh Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee (d.561) said,

"It is essential to carry the Attribute of al-Istawaa upon it’s apparent sense - without ta’weel, and that He Ascended in Person over the Throne. Istawaa does not mean sitting or touching - as the Mujassima and Karraamiyyah say. Nor does it mean grandeur and highness - as the Ash’ariyyah say. Nor does it mean conquering and dominating as the Mu’tazila say. None of this is related in the Sharee’ah. Neither has this been related by any one of the Salaf as-Saalih and the Taabi’een. Nor from the Ashaabul Hadeeth. Rather it is related from them that they carried the meaning of Istawaa with it’s apparent meaning."

‘Gunya at-Taalibeen’ (1/50) of Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee.

al-Khatib al-Baghdadi (d.463) wrote:

"As for the speech about the Attributes of Allah, that which is authentically transmitted about them in the Sunnah, then the way of the Salaf, may Allaah be pleased with them all, was to affirm them as they are, upon their apparent meaning while negating any Tashbih to Allah and not asking how they are."

From his letter known as al-Kalam fi'l-Sifat.

As for the people that like to claim that this is anthropomorphism, then let them clear their minds, because the problem lies therein, and not in the narrations. If a person reads these verses and claims that they are anthropomorphic, then it is not the verses that have the problem, rather the individual who is limited such that he immediately associates a form to Allaah.

Ishaaq ibn Raahawaiah said:

"'Resemblance is if it is said: Hand like my hand, or similar to my hand. Or Hearing like my hearing, or similar to my hearing. So when it is said: Hearing like my hearing, or similar to my hearing, then this is making resemblance.

But if what is being said is what Allaah has said: Hand, Hearing, Seeing, and it is not asked how, nor is it said: like my hearing, or similar to my hearing, then this is not making resemblance.

Allaah - the Most Blessed, Most High - said in His Book: There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing.”

As reported by Imam Tirmidhee in his Sunan 1/128-129.

This is the way and understanding of the Salaf, and they had ijma' on this as Imaam Abu Sa’eed Uthmaan ad-Daarimee related, and this is the what we promote on this forum. If people would like to get into philosophical kalaam-based arguments regarding Istiwaa or anything related, then there are other internet forums where they can do that.

If the thread starter has any questions or wants to have any doubts clarified regarding this topic, he can take a look at the following threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/tawheed-...es-allaah.html
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=3661
http://www.islamicboard.com/742888-post8.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/664745-post2.html

Lastly, it is fitting to quote Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah here:

"…as for the third group then they are the People of Ignorance and they are many from those who ascribe themselves to the Sunnah and following the salaf. They say: the Messenger (SAW) did not understand the meanings of what Allaah revealed to Him from the verses pertaining to the Sifaat, and neither did Jibreel or the Foremost Predecessors understand them. And they said the same thing for the Ahaadeeth concerning the Attributes - that nobody knew their meaning except Allaah….so these people think that they are following the verse "and none knows their explanation except Allaah"…..but they have not distinguished between the meaning of the words and their explanation and the explanation that Allaah is Alone in knowing. And they thought that the ta’weel mentioned in this verse is the ta’weel mentioned in the words of the later generations and they erred in this...and the explanation of the Attributes whose reality Allaah is Alone in knowing is the knowledge of the kayfiyyah which is unknown to us. So (for example) the Istawaa is known, it’s meaning is understood, and explained and translated in other languages, and this is the explanation that those firmly grounded in knowledge know, but as for the kayfiyyah of the Istawaa then this is the explanation that none but Allaah, the Exalted, knows."

[ ‘al-Hamawiyyah’ (pg. 24+)]

:w:

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[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Imaam adh-Dhahabee said in the final lines of his most excellent work, ‘al-Uluww lil-‘Aliyyil-Ghaffaar’ (pp.286-287) says:

"Al-Qurtubee said concerning the saying of Allaah, the Most High, "Then he ascended (istawaa) the Throne",

"We have explained the sayings of the Scholars regarding this issue in the book ‘al-Asnaa fee Sharh al-Asmaa al-Husnaa’ and we mentioned fourteen different sayings therein"

up until he said,

"And the Salaf of the very first times - may Allaah be pleased with them all - never used to negate direction (al-jihah) for Allaah and nor did they used to express this (negation). Rather, they, and all of the others, used to speak with its affirmation for Allaah, the Most High just as His Book has spoken about it and just as His Messengers informed of it. And not a single one of the Salaf denied that his ascending (istawaa) the Throne was real and true (haqeeqah) (as opposed to metaphorical, majaaz). And Allaah specified the Throne with istawaa because that is the greatest of all His creation. However they assumed ignorance only of the exact nature (kaifiyyah) of istiwaa, for the true nature of that is not known. Imaam Maalik said, ‘Istiwaa is known…’, meaning in the language, ‘…its true nature is unknown and asking about it is an innovation."

And al-Qurtubee also said in ‘al-Asnaa’,

"Many of the past and contemporary philosophers said, ‘When it is necessary to purify the Creator (al-Baaree) - whose Magnificence is great - from having direction (jihah) and demarcation (tamayyuz), then from the requirements and necessary consequences of this, in the view of most of the past scholars and their leading contemporaries, is the purify the Creator (al-Baaree) from having direction (jihah). In their view, direction does not have the aspect of ‘above’ to it. This is because to them, when Allaah is designated with direction, this would necessitate that He is restricted to a place (makaan) and a confine (hayyiz). (Subsequently), a place and a confine necessitate (for Him) (such) movement and stillness that is related to distinction (tamayyuz), transformation (taghayyur) and new occurrences (hudooth) . This is the saying of the philosophers.


I (adh-Dhahabee) say,

"Yes, this is what the deniers of the ‘uluww (highness) of the Lord, Mighty and Majestic, have depended upon. And they turned away from the requirement of the Book, the Sunnah, the sayings of the Salaf and the innate dispositions of the whole of creation. What they claim to be necessitated (from affirming Allaah’s highness) is only applicable to created bodies. Yet there is nothing like Allaah and the necessities arising from the clear and evident texts (of the Book and the Sunnah) are also true. However, we do not make use of any explanation except one that comes through a narration. In addition to this we say, ‘We do not accept that the Creator’s being upon His Throne and above the heavens, necessitates that He is confined and in spatial direction, since whatever is below the Throne is said to be confined and in spatial direction. However, what is above the Throne is not like that.

And Allaah is above the Throne as the very first generation are unanimously agreed upon and as the imaams after them have quoted from them. They said this in refutation of the Jahmiyyah, those who said that He is in every place seeking as a proof His saying, ‘And He is with you…’. So these two sayings were the very two sayings which were present in the time of the Taabi’een and their successors who came after them. And they are the two sayings that can be understood in this statement (i.e. of the philosophers). As for the third saying which came around after this which is that’ Allaah the Most High is not in any place, nor is His Holy Essence (Dhaat) confined, nor is He separate and distinct from His creation, nor is he in any spatial direction, nor is outside of any spatial directions, and nor this and nor that…’ then this is something that cannot be comprehended nor understood, along with the fact that within it is opposition to the verses (of the Book) and the narrations (from the Salaf). Therefore flee with your religion and beware of the opinions of the philosophers. Believe in Allaah and what has come from Him upon the desired intent of Allaah, then submit your affair to Him and there is no power nor movement except by Allaah."

The book is completed and all praise is to Allaah alone…"

End of quote from adh-Dhahabee.