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wth1257
03-29-2009, 04:43 AM
Hello!


So I am a bit confused. As I understand it traditional Islam Muhammad never sinned. Yet in a few places of the Qur'an God corrects Muhammad. So what exactly is the teaching? This is something I have always been confused about.
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sirajstc
03-29-2009, 06:05 AM
no i dont think so
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wth1257
03-29-2009, 06:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sirajstc
no i dont think so
But something like Surah. I think it's a beautiful and one of my favoriates by far. But in it God corrects Muhammad (God bless him) for prefering a rich man's time to a lesser man who is earnestly seeking his advise. So God had to correct Muhammad, but it was not a sin, so what was it?
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Muhaba
03-29-2009, 06:00 PM
Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam) was a human being and yet he had the most perfect character. Whenever he did something, it was with the intention to benefit religion Islam. When he was preaching to the rich Meccan leaders and the blind man came to him, he frowned because he felt that if the Meccan leaders became muslim, it would benefit the cause of Islam and so didn't like being interrupted by someone who didn't seem like he'd be of much help to Islam. You can read the commentary of Surah Abasa here: http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/080.htm

Likewise, when the Prophet realized that Allah wanted him to marry his adopted son Zaid's wife after Zaid (r) divorced her, Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam) tried to keep Zaid (r) from divorcing her even though he knew what Allah wanted. this was because at that time the adopted son was regarded the same as a real son and his wife was regarded daughter-in-law and therefore unlawful for the foster father-in-law. So Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaho alaihi wasallam) felt that marrying his adopted son's ex-wife would harm the image of Islam. This event also shows that Islam is the religion from God and didn't incorporate the beliefs that were common at that time. Why would Islam legalize marriage with one's adopted child's spouse when all the people around believed it was wrong? If the religion hadn't been from God it wouldn't include things that might alienate the people. (In the chapter Allah made clear that the adopted child is not like the real child.)

The story of the adopted son is in Quran, chapter 33 (Al-Ahzab). if you read the commentary you will better understand it. you can read it here: http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/

Hope that helps.
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Zafran
03-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Salaam

The idea of sinless in Islam is that God forgives all the sins prophets had done. In Islam when God forgivess someone its as if he is sinless - prophets however are no just ordinary human beings they are the messengers of God that do not commit major sins during there prophetic life.

I'm not sure about this but I think we muslims mean that prophets were sinless in major sins such as adultry, mass murder theft etc and not of minor sins - but again someone correct me if i'm wrong on this and dont take my word for it - thanks.

peace
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cali dude
03-30-2009, 04:59 PM
This is kind of silly question. How could a prophet sin when whatever he did was considered the right thing to do?
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Gia
04-13-2009, 05:14 AM
:sl:

Muhammad PBUH is a human being and he did a few mistakes during his life. Amazingly, The prophets few mistakes turned into an exceptional educational material

Surat Abasa talks about one of those mistakes, when Muhammad PBUH turned away not to look at a blind man.


بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّى (١) أَنْ جَاءَهُ الْأَعْمَى (٢) وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّى (٣) أَوْ يَذَّكَّرُ فَتَنْفَعَهُ الذِّكْرَى (٤) أَمَّا مَنِ اسْتَغْنَى (٥) فَأَنْتَ لَهُ تَصَدَّى (٦) وَمَا عَلَيْكَ أَلَّا يَزَّكَّى (٧) وَأَمَّا مَنْ جَاءَكَ يَسْعَى (٨) وَهُوَ يَخْشَى (٩) فَأَنْتَ عَنْهُ تَلَهَّى (١٠) كَلَّا إِنَّهَا تَذْكِرَةٌ (١١) فَمَنْ شَاءَ ذَكَرَهُ (١٢) فِي صُحُفٍ مُكَرَّمَةٍ (١٣) مَرْفُوعَةٍ مُطَهَّرَةٍ (١٤) بِأَيْدِي سَفَرَةٍ (١٥) كِرَامٍ بَرَرَةٍ (١٦) قُتِلَ الْإِنْسَانُ مَا أَكْفَرَهُ (١٧) مِنْ أَيِّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقَهُ (١٨) مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ خَلَقَهُ فَقَدَّرَهُ (١٩) ثُمَّ السَّبِيلَ يَسَّرَهُ (٢٠) ثُمَّ أَمَاتَهُ فَأَقْبَرَهُ (٢١) ثُمَّ إِذَا شَاءَ أَنْشَرَهُ (٢٢) كَلَّا لَمَّا يَقْضِ مَا أَمَرَهُ (٢٣) فَلْيَنْظُرِ الْإِنْسَانُ إِلَى طَعَامِهِ (٢٤) أَنَّا صَبَبْنَا الْمَاءَ صَبًّا (٢٥) ثُمَّ شَقَقْنَا الْأَرْضَ شَقًّا (٢٦) فَأَنْبَتْنَا فِيهَا حَبًّا (٢٧) وَعِنَبًا وَقَضْبًا (٢٨) وَزَيْتُونًا وَنَخْلًا (٢٩) وَحَدَائِقَ غُلْبًا (٣٠) وَفَاكِهَةً وَأَبًّا (٣١) مَتَاعًا لَكُمْ وَلِأَنْعَامِكُمْ (٣٢) فَإِذَا جَاءَتِ الصَّاخَّةُ (٣٣) يَوْمَ يَفِرُّ الْمَرْءُ مِنْ أَخِيهِ (٣٤) وَأُمِّهِ وَأَبِيهِ (٣٥) وَصَاحِبَتِهِ وَبَنِيهِ (٣٦) لِكُلِّ امْرِئٍ مِنْهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ شَأْنٌ يُغْنِيهِ (٣٧) وُجُوهٌ يَوْمَئِذٍ مُسْفِرَةٌ (٣٨) ضَاحِكَةٌ مُسْتَبْشِرَةٌ (٣٩) وَوُجُوهٌ يَوْمَئِذٍ عَلَيْهَا غَبَرَةٌ (٤٠) تَرْهَقُهَا قَتَرَةٌ (٤١) أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْكَفَرَةُ الْفَجَرَةُ (٤٢)


[Abasa 80:1] He frowned and turned away.
[Abasa 80:2] Because the blind man had come in his august presence.
[Abasa 80:3] And what do you know, he may be of the pure!
[Abasa 80:4] Or that he may accept advice, so the advice may benefit him.
[Abasa 80:5] For him who does not care,
[Abasa 80:6] So you are after him!
[Abasa 80:7] And you have nothing to lose if he does not become pure.
[Abasa 80:8] And for him who came to you striving,
[Abasa 80:9] And whereas he fears,
[Abasa 80:10] So you leave him, and are engrossed elsewhere!
[Abasa 80:11] Not this way – this is the advice.
[Abasa 80:12] So whoever wishes may remember it.
[Abasa 80:13] On honourable pages.
[Abasa 80:14] Exalted, pure.
[Abasa 80:15] Written by the hands of emissaries.
[Abasa 80:16] Who are noble, virtuous.
[Abasa 80:17] May man be slain – how ungrateful he is!
[Abasa 80:18] From what did He create him?
[Abasa 80:19] From a drop of liquid; He created him and then set several measures for him.
[Abasa 80:20] Then eased the way for him.
[Abasa 80:21] Then gave him death, so had him put in the grave.
[Abasa 80:22] Then, when He willed, He brought him out. (As during the night of Holy Prophet’s ascension, when all the Prophets gathered behind him in the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. Or when Allah will raise everyone on the Day of Resurrection.)
[Abasa 80:23] Not one – he has not yet completed what he was commanded.
[Abasa 80:24] So man must look at his food.
[Abasa 80:25] That We watered it in abundance.
[Abasa 80:26] Then We split the earth properly.
[Abasa 80:27] Thereby produced grain in it.
[Abasa 80:28] And grapes and fodder,
[Abasa 80:29] And olives and date palms,
[Abasa 80:30] And dense gardens,
[Abasa 80:31] And fruits and grass,
[Abasa 80:32] In order to benefit you and your cattle.
[Abasa 80:33] So when the deafening Shout arrives,
[Abasa 80:34] On that day man will run away from his brother.
[Abasa 80:35] And from his mother and father,
[Abasa 80:36] And from his wife and sons.
[Abasa 80:37] On that day, each one has just one issue, which is enough for him.
[Abasa 80:38] Many a face will be glittering on that day.
[Abasa 80:39] Laughing, rejoicing.
[Abasa 80:40] And many a face will be covered with dust on that day.
[Abasa 80:41] Blackness overcoming them.
[Abasa 80:42] It is they, the disbelievers, the sinners.
:w:
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AabiruSabeel
04-13-2009, 05:20 AM
Sinning is different from committing a mistake.

A sin maybe defined as disobedience of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
Our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam has never committed any sin; neither before his prophethood, nor after becoming a prophet.

Prophets are infallible. There were a few decisions (and decisions only, nothing more) which he had taken considering the benefit of Islam and Muslims, but later those were corrected by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala Himself.

And since Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has forgiven all the past and future mistakes if any of our Prophet, there is no need for us to discuss this matter. Would you like your mistakes to be discussed in public after you have repented?
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Gia
04-13-2009, 05:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by submitmj
Quran is VERY CLEAR that we are not supposed to make distinctions among any of GOD's messengers.
Peace
What does Muhammad PBUH committing a few mistakes has to do with the distinction among Allah's messengers. We do NOT make any distinction between them.
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AabiruSabeel
04-13-2009, 06:18 AM
Our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam is the last and Final Messenger.
He is the Seal of all the Prophets.
He is the Imam of all the Prophets.
The Deen is completed on our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam.
He is the first one to intercede on the Day of Judgement. All other prophets will say they are not able to make intercession and send the people to the prophet who came after them. Finally our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam will intercede.
He is the first one to enter Jannah.
...and there are many more things. These are just from the top of my head.

We are not discriminating among the Prophets. All Prophets and Messengers were given the noble task of inviting people towards Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. There is no discrimination among them in respect of their being prophet.
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AabiruSabeel
04-13-2009, 06:59 AM
We learn from the Quran that Abraham, God's beloved servant, could not intercede on behalf of his father (9:114). Noah could not intercede on behalf of his son (11:46). Muhammad could not intercede on behalf of his uncle (111:1-3) or relatives (9:80).
The reason why Ibrahim 'Alaihis Salam will be unable to intercede on behalf of his father, and similarly Nooh 'Alaihis Salam on behalf of his son and our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam on behalf of his uncle is clearly mentioned in the Quran: they were all disbelievers, they died without accepting Islam.

The intercession of the Prophets is for the believers who had committed sins and were liable to be punished.
Havent you read the Ayat where Allah says: illa man azina lahur-Rahmanu wa Radhiya lahu qaula On that day shall no intercession avail except of him whom the Beneficent Allah allows and whose word He is pleased with. [20:109]

And as for superiority of a few prophets, Allah has said: Walaqad fadhdhalna ba'dhan-Nabiyyeena 'ala ba'dh and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, [17:55]

Don't act those who believe in some Ayat and reject other, like Allah has said:
Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter: their penalty shall not be lightened nor shall they be helped. [2:95-86]
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Zafran
04-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Salaam

yeah intercession will happen on the last day for the believers who need it. Some people will be taken out of the hell fire too. This because its the station of the prophet. Prophet Muhammad pbuh glorifies God and then God will let specific people out depending on there level of Iman.

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...AskAboutIslamE

This article explains it better

peace
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true believer
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
everyone is born with a bit of blackness in their hearts....but allah didnt make our Prophet (saw) dat way. so i DOUBT he sinned, as he is the best of mankind. allah knows best
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'Abd-al Latif
06-15-2009, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
Hello!


So I am a bit confused. As I understand it traditional Islam Muhammad never sinned. Yet in a few places of the Qur'an God corrects Muhammad. So what exactly is the teaching? This is something I have always been confused about.
Hi.

Do Prophets sin? Do they need forgiveness?

Q.I have been told by someone claiming to be a Muslim that all God's prophets, including Mohammed, were without sin, (perfect), never requiring forgiveness. Is this a view held officially by Islam as a whole?

A.Praise be to Allaah.

We thank you for sending this question in an effort to find the right answer instead of merely accepting what you have heard from someone who claims to be a Muslim.

“The ummah (Muslim nation) is agreed that the Messengers are infallible in carrying out their mission – they do not forget anything that Allaah has revealed to them except with regard to matters that have been abrogated. They are also infallible in conveying the Message – they do not conceal anything that Allaah has revealed to them, for that would be a betrayal and it is impossible to imagine that they could do such a thing. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘O Messenger! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not ,then you have not conveyed His Message…’ [al-Maa’idah 5:67]. If anything is concealed or changed, then the punishment of Allaah will befall the one who is guilty of doing these things, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘And if he [Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] had forged a false saying concerning Us [Allaah], We surely would have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (aorta).’ [al-Haqqah 69:44-46]. One aspect of infallibility is that they (the Prophets) do not forget anything of that which Allaah has revealed to them, and thus no part of the revelation is lost.”

[Al-rusul wa’l-risaalaat (The Messengers and their missions), ‘Omar al-Ashqar, p. 97]

‘Omar al-Ashqar also said (op. cit., p.102): “The Prophets and Messengers may also strive to find the right judgement in the situations with which they are faced, and they judge according to what they themselves see and hear – they do not have knowledge of the Unseen. They may make an incorrect judgement, as happened to the Prophet of Allaah Dawood (David), who failed to do so, and Allaah helped his son Sulaymaan (Solomon) to come up with the right answer in that particular case. Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that he heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘There were two women, each of whom had a son. A wolf came and carried off the son of one of them, who said to the other, “The wolf has taken your son.” The other said, “No, he took your son.” They came to Dawood to ask him to judge between them, and he ruled in favour of the older woman. Then they went to Sulaymaan the son of Dawood and told him what had happened. He said, “Bring a knife and divide the child between them.” The younger woman said, “Do not do that, may Allaah have mercy on you! He is her son.” So Sulaymaan ruled in favour of the younger woman.’ (Reported by al-Bukhaari).

“The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained this story: Umm Salamah, the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) narrated that he heard a dispute going on at the door of his apartment, so he went out and told them: ‘I am no more than a human being. Disputing parties may come to me, and one of you may be more eloquent and persuasive than the other, so I may think that he is telling the truth and rule in favour of him. Whoever has a judgement in favour of him to the detriment of a fellow-Muslim’s rights, this is a piece of the Fire – let him take it or leave it.’”

When it comes to the idea of the Prophets committing major sins (kabaa’ir), Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said (in al-Fataawaa, 4/319): “…The belief that the Prophets are free of major sins, but not of minor sins, is the opinion of the majority of Islamic scholars and of all (Muslim) groups… It is the opinion of most mufassireen (commentators on the Qur’an), scholars of hadeeth and fuqaha’ (jurists).”

With regard to whether it is possible for the Prophets to commit minor sins, in Lawaami’ al-Anwaar al-Bahiyyah (2/214), al-Safaareeni quoted from Ibn Hamdaan who said in Nihaayat al-Mubtadi’een: “They are infallible in conveying the commands and message of Allaah, but they are not infallible in any other regard. They may make mistakes, forget things, or commit minor sins – according to the most well-known opinion (of the scholars) – but they will not be approved for these mistakes.”

The majority of scholars take the following as evidence to support their claim that the Prophets are not free from minor sins:

Adam’s sin in eating from the tree from which Allaah had forbidden him to eat. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And (remember) when We said to the angels, ‘Prostrate yourselves to Adam.’ They prostrated (all) except Iblees (Satan), who refused. Then We said, ‘O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you be distressed in misery. Verily, you have (a promise from Us) that you will never be hungry therein nor naked. And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the sun’s heat. Then Shaytaan whispered to him, saying: ‘O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that shall never waste away?’ Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.” [Ta-Ha 20:116-121]

When Nooh prayed for his kaafir son, Allaah rebuked him for doing so, and taught him that this person was not a member of his family, and that this prayer was not a righteous deed on his part. So Nooh sought forgiveness from his Lord, repented and returned to Allaah: “Nooh said: ‘O my Lord! I seek refuge with You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have Mercy on me, I would indeed be one of the losers.’” [Hood 11:47 – interpretation of the meaning].

When Dawood realized that he had been too quick to judge, without listening to what the second disputant had to say, he hastened to repent: “… and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allaah) in repentance.” [Saad 38:24 – interpretation of the meaning].

Everyone, even the Prophets, is in need of the forgiveness of Allaah. Allaah has blessed His Prophets by forgiving their sins, and He has blessed our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as He said (interpretation of the meaning): “That Allaah may forgive you your sins of the past and the future, and complete His favour upon you, and guide you on the Straight Path.” [al-Fath 48:2]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, in al-Fataawaa 10/296, “Concerning the issue of forgiveness of the Prophets’ sins: Allaah, may He be exalted, does not speak of any Prophet in the Qur’aan, except He also mentions repentance and seeking forgiveness. For example, Adam and his wife said: ‘Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers.” [al-A’raaf 7:23 – interpretation of the meaning]. Nooh said: “O my Lord! I seek refuge with You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have Mercy on me, I would indeed be one of the losers.’” [Hood 11:47 – interpretation of the meaning]. Ibraaheem said: “Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents, and (all) the Believers on the Day when the reckoning will be established.” [Ibraaheem 14:41 – interpretation of the meaning] and “… You are our wali (Protector), so forgive us and have Mercy on us, for You are the Best of those who forgive. And ordain for us good in this world, and in the Hereafter. Certainly we have turned unto You…” [al-A’raaf 7:155-156 – interpretation of the meaning]. Moosa said: ‘…You are our wali (Protector), so forgive us and have Mercy on us, for You are the Best of those who forgive.’ [al-A’raaf 7:155 – interpretation of the meaning]. Then he [Ibn Taymiyah, may Allaah have mercy on him] gave further examples, but what we have mentioned here is sufficient. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/1684
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'Abd-al Latif
06-15-2009, 04:31 PM
The infallibility of the Prophets


Q.I would like to ask a question about ‘aqeedah (belief). Is it part of our ‘aqeedah to believe that the Prophets committed sins and were not infallible?.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

The Prophets are the best of mankind, and the most noble of creation before Allaah. Allaah chose them to convey the call of Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah to mankind, and Allaah has made them the intermediaries between Him and His creation in conveying His Laws. They were commanded to convey the message from Allaah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They are those whom We gave the Book, Al‑Hukm (understanding of the religious laws), and Prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein (the Book, Al‑Hukm and Prophethood), then, indeed We have entrusted it to a people (such as the Companions of Prophet Muhammad) who are not disbelievers therein”
[al-An’aam 6:89]

The Prophets’ task was to convey the message from Allaah even though they were human, hence the issue of infallibility may be examined from two angles:

1 – Infallibility in conveying the message

2 – Infallibility from human error
Firstly: With regard to the first issue, the Prophets were infallible in conveying the message from Allaah. They did not conceal anything that Allaah had revealed to them, and they did not add anything from themselves. Allaah said to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):
“O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allaah will protect you from mankind”
[al-Maa'idah 5:67]

“And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us (Allaah),

We surely would have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might),

And then We certainly would have cut off his life artery (aorta),

And none of you could have withheld Us from (punishing) him”


[al-Haaqqah 69:44-47]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And he (Muhammad) withholds not a knowledge of the Unseen”


[al-Takweer 81:24]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on this verse: He is not stingy with that which Allaah has revealed to him, concealing some of it. Rather he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the most trustworthy of the inhabitants of heaven and the people of earth, the one who conveys the message of his Lord, the faithful conveyor (of the message). He does not withhold any part of it, from rich or poor, from ruler or subject, from male or female, from city-dweller or Bedouin. Hence Allaah sent him to an illiterate and ignorant nation, and he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not die until they had become knowledgeable scholars, steeped in knowledge…

End quote.

So with regard to conveying the religion of his Lord, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not make any mistakes at all, whether major or minor, rather he was infallible and under the constant protection of Allaah.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Fataawa Ibn Baaz, 6/371:

All the Muslims are unanimously agreed that the Prophets (peace be upon them) – especially Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – are infallible and protected from error in that which they conveyed from Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“By the star when it goes down (or vanishes).

Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only a Revelation revealed.

He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)]”


[al-Najm 53:1-5]

Our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is infallible in all that he conveyed from Allaah, in word and deed and in what he approved of. There is no dispute on this point among the scholars.

End quote.

The ummah is agreed that the Messengers are infallible in their conveying the message. They did not forget anything that Allaah revealed to them, except for things that were abrogated. And Allaah guaranteed His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that he would remember it and would not forget it, except for that which Allaah wanted him to forget, and He guaranteed to remember the whole Qur’aan in his heart. Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

“We shall make you to recite (the Qur’aan), so you (O Muhammad) shall not forget (it)”

[al-A’la 87:7]

“It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad) the ability to recite it (the Qur’aan).

And when We have recited it to you [O Muhammad through Jibreel (Gabriel)], then follow its (the Qur’aan’s) recitation”


[al-Qiyaamah 75:17-18]

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 18/7]:

The verses which point to the Prophethood of the Prophets indicate that they are infallible with regard to the message that they convey from Allaah, so what they convey from their Lord can only be true. This is the meaning of Prophethood and this implies [?] that Allaah tells [the Prophet] of the unseen and he tells the people of the unseen. So the Messenger is commanded to call people and to convey the message to them.

End quote.
Secondly: With regard to the Prophets as people, they may make mistakes. This may be discussed as follows:
1 –They do not commit major sins

With regard to major sins, the Prophets do not commit major sins at all, and they are protected from such major sins both before their missions began or afterwards.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/319:

The view that the Prophets are infallible and protected against committing major sins, as opposed to minor sins, is the view of the majority of Muslim scholars and of all groups. It is also the view of the scholars of tafseer and hadeeth and fuqaha’. Indeed, nothing has been narrated from any of the salaf, imams, Sahaabah, Taabi’een and those who followed them except that which is in accordance with this view.

End quote.

2 – Matters that have nothing to do with conveying the message and the revelation.

With regard to minor sins, these may be committed by them, or by some of them. Hence the majority of scholars are of the view that they are not infallible when it comes to minor sins. But if they committed such actions they were not left to persist therein, rather Allaah pointed that out to them and they hastened to repent therefrom.

The evidence that they might commit minor sins and that they were not left to persist therein is the verses in which Allaah says of Adam (interpretation of the meaning):

“Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.

Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance”

[Ta-Ha 20:121-122]

This indicates that Adam committed sin, but he was not left to persist therein, and he repented to Allaah from that.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He said: ‘This is of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy.’

He said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft‑Forgiving, the Most Merciful”


[al-Qasas 28:15-16]

So Moosa (peace be upon him) confessed his sin and sought forgiveness from Allaah after he killed the Egyptian, and Allaah forgave him his sin.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and he [Dawood] sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allaah) in repentance.

So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return (Paradise)”


[Saad 38:23-24]

Dawood’s sin was hastening to pass judgement before hearing the case of the second disputant.

And our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was rebuked by his Lord for several things that are mentioned in the Qur’aan, such as the following (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allaah has allowed to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tahreem 66:1]

This refers to the well-known story with some of his wives.

Allaah also rebuked His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning the prisoners of war at Badr:

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (4588) that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: When the prisoners were taken captive, the Messenger of Allaah (S) (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Abu Bakr and ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them): “What do you think about these prisoners?” Abu Bakr said: “O Prophet of Allaah, they are our cousins and kinsmen. I think that we should accept a ransom from them which will give us some support against the kuffaar, and perhaps Allaah will guide them to Islam.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What do you think, O Ibn al-Khattaab?” He said: “I say, no, by Allaah, O Messenger of Allaah. I do not agree with Abu Bakr. I think that you should hand them over to us so that we may strike their necks (execute them). Hand over ‘Aqeel to ‘Ali so that he may strike his neck, and hand over So and so – a relative of ‘Umar – to me, for these are the leaders and veterans of kufr.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) liked what Abu Bakr said and he did not like what I [‘Umar] said. The next day I came and found the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and Abu Bakr weeping. I said: “O Messenger of Allaah, tell me, what has made you and your companion weep? If there is a reason to weep, I will weep with you, and there is no reason, I will pretend to weep in sympathy with you because you are weeping.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am weeping because I was shown the torture to which they were subjected. It was brought as close to me as this tree” – a tree which was near the Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – then Allaah revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allaah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

Were it not a previous ordainment from Allaah, a severe torment would have touched you for what you took.

So enjoy what you have gotten of booty in war, lawful and good”


[al-Anfaal 8:67-69]

So Allaah permitted booty to them.

From this hadeeth it is clear that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) chose to ransom the prisoners, this was a decision that he made by ijtihaad after consulting his companions, and he had no revelation from Allaah concerning that.

The words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

“(The Prophet) frowned and turned away.

Because there came to him the blind man (i.e. ‘Abdullaah bin Umm Maktoom, who came to the Prophet while he was preaching to one or some of the Quraysh chiefs)”


[‘Abasa 80:1-2]

This is the famous story of the great companion ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Umm Maktoom and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when Allaah rebuked him.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/320:

What has been narrated from the majority of scholars is that they (the Prophets) are not infallible with regard to minor sins, but they are not left to persist therein. They do not say that this does not happen under any circumstances. The first group from whom it was narrated that they are infallible in all cases, and who say that the most, are the Raafidis (Shi’ah), who say that they are infallible and protected even against forgetfulness and misunderstanding.

End quote.

Some people think this is too much to suggest that Prophets may commit sin, and misinterpret some of the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah which indicate that. Two specious arguments lead them to do that:

(i) – The fact that Allaah has commanded us to follow the Messengers and take them as our example. The command to follow them is taken as meaning that everything they did is an example for us to follow, and that every action and belief of theirs is an act of worship. If we suggest that that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) committed a sin, there will be a dilemma, because that implies that we are commanded to imitate this sin which was committed by the Prophet because we are commanded to follow his example, but at the same time we should no agree with it or do it, because it is a sin.

This argument is valid and is appropriate if the sin is hidden and not obvious in such a way that it could be confused with acts of obedience. But Allaah has explained to His Messengers where they went wrong and enabled them to repent without delay.

(ii) – Sins contradict perfection and are a shortcoming. This is true if they are not accompanied by repentance, for repentance brings forgiveness of sin, and does not contradict perfection or bring blame upon a person. Rather in many cases a person may be better after repenting than he was before he fell into sin. It is well known that no Prophet committed sin but he hastened to repent and seek forgiveness. The Prophets did not persist in sin or delay repentance, for Allaah protected them from that, and after repenting they became more perfect than they were before.

3 – Unintentional mistakes with regard to some worldly matters

With regard to mistakes in some worldly matters, it is permissible for them to make such mistakes although their reason is sound and their insight is strong. This happened to several of the Prophets including our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This happened with regard to various spheres of life such as medicine, agriculture, etc.

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (6127) that Raafi’ ibn Khadeej said: The Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah and found them pollinating the palm trees. He said: “What are you doing?” They said: “We always do this.” He said: “Perhaps if you do not do it, that will be better.” So they did not do it, and the harvest failed. They told him about that and he said: “I am only human. If I tell you to do something with regard to your religion, then do it, but if I tell you to do something based on my own opinion, then I am only human.” Hence it is known that the Prophets are infallible and protected from error with regard to the Revelation, so we should beware of those who cast aspersions upon the Messenger’s conveying of the Message and his laws, and say that it is his own personal opinion. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) could never do such a thing. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only a Revelation revealed”


[al-Najm 53:3-4]

The Standing Committee was asked: Do the Prophets and Messengers make mistakes?

They replied:

Yes, they make mistakes but Allaah does not let them persist in their mistakes, rather he points out their mistakes to them as a mercy to them and their nations, and He forgives them for their mistakes, and accepts their repentance by His Grace and Mercy, for Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful, as will be clear to anyone who studies the verses of the Qur’aan which speak of that.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 3/194

For more information see question no. 7208

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/42216
Reply

Zafran
06-15-2009, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by submitmj
Well, the Quran says otherwise.

[Quran 2:80] Some have said, "Hell will not touch us, except for a limited number of days." Say, "Have you taken such a pledge from GOD - GOD never breaks His pledge - or, are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"

[Quran 2:81] Indeed, those who earn sins and become surrounded by their evil work will be the dwellers of Hell; they abide in it forever.

Peace
salaam

Once again your missing a very important part - the bold is talking about specific people - the people that had IMAN - even small amounts - Allah swt is merciful and by his grace will take them out of the fire - read the Hadiths Qudsi's

On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace be upon him), who said:
The believers will gather together on the Day of Resurrection and will say: Should we not ask [someone] to intercede for us with our Lord? So they will come to Adam and will say: You are the Father of mankind; Allah created you with His hand He made His angels bow down to you and He taught you the names of everything, so intercede for us with you Lord so that He may give us relief form this place where we are. And he will say: I am not in a position [to do that] - and he will mention his wrongdoing and will feel ashamed and will say: Go to Noah, for he is the first messenger that Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth. So they will come to him and he will say: I am not in a position [to do that] - and he will mention his having requested something of his Lord about which he had no [proper] knowledge (Quran Chapter 11 Verses 45-46), and he will feel ashamed and will say: Go to the Friend of the Merciful (Abraham). So they will come to him and he will say: I am not in a position [to do that]. Go to Moses, a servant to whom Allah talked and to whom He gave the Torah. So they will come to him and he will say: I am not in a position [to do that] - and he will mention the talking of a life other that for a life (Quran Chapter 28 Verses 15-16), and he will fell ashamed in the sight of his Lord and will say: Go to Jesus, Allah's servant and messenger, Allah's word and spirit. So they will come to him and he will say: I am not in a position [to do that]. Go to Muhammad (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), a servant to whom Allah has forgiven all his wrongdoing, past and future. So they will come to me and I shall set forth to ask permission to come to my Lord, and permission will be given, and when I shall see my Lord I shall prostrate myself. He will leave me thus for such time as it pleases Him, and then it will be said [to me]: Raise your head. Ask and it will be granted. Speak and it will be heard. Intercede and your intercession will be accepted. So I shall raise my head and praise Him with a form of praise that He will teach me. Then I shall intercede and HE will set me a limit [as to the number of people], so I shall admit them into Paradise. Then I shall return to Him, and when I shall see my Lord [I shall bow down] as before. Then I shall intercede and He will set me a limit [as to the number of people]. So I shall admit them into Paradise. Then I shall return for a third time, then a fourth, and I shall say: There remains in Hell-fire only those whom the Quran has confined and who must be there for eternity. There shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing a barley-corn; then there shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing a grain of wheat; then there shall come out of Hell-fire he who has said: There is no god but Allah and who has in his heart goodness weighing an atom.

It was related by al-Bukhari (also by Muslim, at-Tirmidhi, and Ibn Majah).
source - http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/ot...dithqudsi.html
Reply

wth1257
06-16-2009, 10:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Hi.
Thank you. That article was very helpful.
Reply

sur
06-16-2009, 03:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
Hello!


So I am a bit confused. As I understand it traditional Islam Muhammad never sinned. Yet in a few places of the Qur'an God corrects Muhammad. So what exactly is the teaching? This is something I have always been confused about.
http://www.islamicboard.com/910759-post5.html

No human is sinless, including Prophets.


Q:7:23:They said: Our Lord! We(Adam & Eve) have wronged ourselves......

Q:26:82:And Who, I ardently hope, will forgive me my(Ibraheem) sin on the Day of Judgment.

Q:38:25:So We forgave him(Dawood) that; and lo! he had access to Our presence and a happy journey's end.

Q:28:16:He said: My Lord! Lo! I(Mosa) have wronged my soul, so forgive me. Then He forgave him.

Q:47:19:So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women.

[Q:48:2] That God may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;





It's ONLY that Prophat Muhammad(saw) was forgiven his faults in this world while other Prophets & other humans will have to wait for DOJ(Day of Judjement) for decision on them.

Bukhari:2:19:-
Narated By 'Aisha : Whenever Allah's Apostle ordered the Muslims to do something, he used to order them deeds which were easy for them to do, (according to their strength endurance). They said, "O Allah's Apostle! We are not like you. Allah has forgiven your past and future sins." So Allah's Apostle became angry and it was apparent on his face. He said, "I am the most Allah fearing, and know Allah better than all of you do."

Bukhari:55:577:-
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did not tell a lie except on three occasions."

Bukhari:60:3:-
Narated By Anas : The Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection the Believers will assemble and say, 'Let us ask somebody to intercede for us with our Lord.' So they will go to Adam and say, 'You are the father of all the people, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate to you, and taught you the names of all things; so please intercede for us with your Lord, so that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Adam will say, 'I am not fit for this (i.e. intercession for you).' Then Adam will remember his sin and feel ashamed thereof. He will say, 'Go to Noah, for he was the first Apostle, Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth.' They will go to him and Noah will say:

'I am not fit for this undertaking.' He will remember his appeal to his Lord to do what he had no knowledge of, then he will feel ashamed thereof and will say, 'Go to the Khalil-r-Rahman (i.e. Abraham).' They will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking. Go to Moses, the slave to whom Allah spoke (directly) and gave him the Torah.' So they will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking.' and he will mention (his) killing a person who was not a killer, and so he will feel ashamed thereof before his Lord, and he will say, 'Go to Jesus, Allah's Slave, His Apostle and Allah's Word and a Spirit coming from Him. Jesus will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, go to Muhammad the Slave of Allah whose past and future sins were forgiven by Allah.' So they will come to me and I will proceed till I will ask my Lord's Permission and I will be given permission. When I see my Lord, I will fall down in Prostration and He will let me remain in that state as long as He wishes and then I will be addressed.' (Muhammad!) Raise your head. Ask, and your request will be granted; say, and your saying will be listened to; intercede, and your intercession will be accepted.' I will raise my head and praise Allah with a saying (i.e. invocation) He will teach me, and then I will intercede. He will fix a limit for me (to intercede for) whom I will admit into Paradise. Then I will come back again to Allah, and when I see my Lord, the same thing will happen to me. And then I will intercede and Allah will fix a limit for me to intercede whom I will let into Paradise, then I will come back for the third time; and then I will come back for the fourth time, and will say, 'None remains in Hell but those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned (in Hell) and who have been destined to an eternal stay in Hell.' " (The compiler) Abu 'Abdullah said: 'But those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned in Hell,' refers to the Statement of Allah: "They will dwell therein forever." (16.29)




He was not sinless, he was forgiven.

Term "being sinless" can be confusing whether he never made any mistake or he did mistakes but was forgiven.


we always ask Allah for his mercy when HE already is Merciful.!!! Still we ask again & again.


When a glass is EMPTY & I say "please empty this glass", This would be false statement since glass was ALREADY empty.

So If Prophet was "empty" of sins, or NOT capable of sins, then asking for repentence would be a similar false statement. & false statements doesn't suit Prophets. Also Allah does NOT lie, so why would HE talk of forgiving Prophet if he was already sinless,:-
[Q:48:2] That God may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;
Reply

Beardo
06-16-2009, 04:45 PM
No, Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhe Wasallam never sinned. With lack of better word, the most that is ever commited is that he chose the "lesser good". If that makes sense...?
Reply

Yanal
06-16-2009, 04:57 PM
^ absolutely excellent answer:)
Reply

Beardo
06-17-2009, 01:17 AM
Jazakumullah. Credit goes to Mufti Rizwan Ahmed though :D He taught me that.
Reply

ummsara1108
06-17-2009, 02:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cali dude
This is kind of silly question. How could a prophet sin when whatever he did was considered the right thing to do?
Because all HUMANS make mistakes. Some more some less.
Reply

sur
06-17-2009, 01:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sur
http://www.islamicboard.com/910759-post5.html

No human is sinless, including Prophets.


Q:7:23:They said: Our Lord! We(Adam & Eve) have wronged ourselves......

Q:26:82:And Who, I ardently hope, will forgive me my(Ibraheem) sin on the Day of Judgment.

Q:38:25:So We forgave him(Dawood) that; and lo! he had access to Our presence and a happy journey's end.

Q:28:16:He said: My Lord! Lo! I(Mosa) have wronged my soul, so forgive me. Then He forgave him.

Q:47:19:So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women.

[Q:48:2] That God may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;





It's ONLY that Prophat Muhammad(saw) was forgiven his faults in this world while other Prophets & other humans will have to wait for DOJ(Day of Judjement) for decision on them.

Bukhari:2:19:-
Narated By 'Aisha : Whenever Allah's Apostle ordered the Muslims to do something, he used to order them deeds which were easy for them to do, (according to their strength endurance). They said, "O Allah's Apostle! We are not like you. Allah has forgiven your past and future sins." So Allah's Apostle became angry and it was apparent on his face. He said, "I am the most Allah fearing, and know Allah better than all of you do."

Bukhari:55:577:-
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did not tell a lie except on three occasions."

Bukhari:60:3:-
Narated By Anas : The Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection the Believers will assemble and say, 'Let us ask somebody to intercede for us with our Lord.' So they will go to Adam and say, 'You are the father of all the people, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate to you, and taught you the names of all things; so please intercede for us with your Lord, so that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' Adam will say, 'I am not fit for this (i.e. intercession for you).' Then Adam will remember his sin and feel ashamed thereof. He will say, 'Go to Noah, for he was the first Apostle, Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth.' They will go to him and Noah will say:

'I am not fit for this undertaking.' He will remember his appeal to his Lord to do what he had no knowledge of, then he will feel ashamed thereof and will say, 'Go to the Khalil-r-Rahman (i.e. Abraham).' They will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking. Go to Moses, the slave to whom Allah spoke (directly) and gave him the Torah.' So they will go to him and he will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking.' and he will mention (his) killing a person who was not a killer, and so he will feel ashamed thereof before his Lord, and he will say, 'Go to Jesus, Allah's Slave, His Apostle and Allah's Word and a Spirit coming from Him. Jesus will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, go to Muhammad the Slave of Allah whose past and future sins were forgiven by Allah.' So they will come to me and I will proceed till I will ask my Lord's Permission and I will be given permission. When I see my Lord, I will fall down in Prostration and He will let me remain in that state as long as He wishes and then I will be addressed.' (Muhammad!) Raise your head. Ask, and your request will be granted; say, and your saying will be listened to; intercede, and your intercession will be accepted.' I will raise my head and praise Allah with a saying (i.e. invocation) He will teach me, and then I will intercede. He will fix a limit for me (to intercede for) whom I will admit into Paradise. Then I will come back again to Allah, and when I see my Lord, the same thing will happen to me. And then I will intercede and Allah will fix a limit for me to intercede whom I will let into Paradise, then I will come back for the third time; and then I will come back for the fourth time, and will say, 'None remains in Hell but those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned (in Hell) and who have been destined to an eternal stay in Hell.' " (The compiler) Abu 'Abdullah said: 'But those whom the Qur'an has imprisoned in Hell,' refers to the Statement of Allah: "They will dwell therein forever." (16.29)




He was not sinless, he was forgiven.

Term "being sinless" can be confusing whether he never made any mistake or he did mistakes but was forgiven.


we always ask Allah for his mercy when HE already is Merciful.!!! Still we ask again & again.


When a glass is EMPTY & I say "please empty this glass", This would be false statement since glass was ALREADY empty.

So If Prophet was "empty" of sins, or NOT capable of sins, then asking for repentence would be a similar false statement. & false statements doesn't suit Prophets. Also Allah does NOT lie, so why would HE talk of forgiving Prophet if he was already sinless,:-
[Q:48:2] That God may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;
format_quote Originally Posted by eHafiz
No, Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhe Wasallam never sinned. With lack of better word, the most that is ever commited is that he chose the "lesser good". If that makes sense...?
This concept of opting for "lesser good" is basically shia concept adopted by some sunis.

This is just a cover-up to comfort their preconceived idea that prophet's could not sin.

If you claim that they never sinned, kindly explain Quranic aayahs & ahadees i quoted....!!! They all very very clearly use the word "sin"
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-17-2009, 01:32 PM
^^Do u speak or understand Arabic? Whats the word in Arabic to denote sin?
Reply

sur
06-17-2009, 02:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
^^Do u speak or understand Arabic? Whats the word in Arabic to denote sin?
Arabic word for "SIN" is "ذنب"

Pleural is "ذنوب"

Now read Quranic verses 47:19 & 48:2 in Arabic.............


Q:47:19:-
فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلأاللَّهُ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لِذَنبِكَ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَـتِ

Q:48:2:-
لِّيَغْفِرَ لَكَ اللَّهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِن ذَنبِكَ وَمَا تَأَخَّرَ وَيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَيَهْدِيَكَ صِرَطاً مُّسْتَقِيماً
Reply

AabiruSabeel
06-17-2009, 04:10 PM
:sl:

Now read Quranic verses 47:19 & 48:2
47:19
فَٱعۡلَمۡ أَنَّهُ ۥ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ وَٱسۡتَغۡفِرۡ لِذَنۢبِكَ وَلِلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ وَٱلۡمُؤۡمِنَـٰتِ*ۗ وَٱللَّهُ يَعۡلَمُ مُتَقَلَّبَكُمۡ وَمَثۡوَٮٰكُمۡ
So, know for sure that there is no god but Allah, and seek forgiveness for your fault, and for (the faults of) the believing men and believing women. And Allah knows your moving from place to place and your permanent abode. [47:19]

Lets see what the mufassireen say about this:
Source: Ma'ariful Qur'an
In this verse the address is to the Holy Prophet :arabic5: and he is, through an imperative verb, commanded to know that there is no object of worship besides Allah. It is quite obvious that every Muslim has the knowledge of this - let alone the leader of the Holy Prophets :arabic5: who should have its knowledge more profoundly. Then why is he enjoined to acquire this knowledge? There can be two responses to this question: it can either mean that the Holy Prophet :arabic5: is enjoined to be steadfast in his worship of Allah or it could mean that he must fulfill the demands of his knowledge. Qurtubi cites the incident of Sufyan Ibn 'Uyaynah رحمه الله تعالى who was asked about the significance of knowledge, he replied: Did you not read verse 19 of Surah Muhammad: فَٱعۡلَمۡ أَنَّهُ ۥ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ "So, know for sure (O Holy Prophet :arabic5:) that there is no god but Allah, and seek forgiveness for your fault. It is required in this verse that knowledge should be acquired before action. Similarly, on other occasions in the Qur'an, first it is enjoined to acquire knowledge and then to fulfil its corresponding demands. For example, in [57:20] the Holy Qur'an has said, اعلموا انما الحياة الدنيا لعب ولهو "Know that the present life is but a sport and a diversion ..." Then it was said, سابقوا إلى مغفرة من ربكم "Race to forgiveness from your Lord (57:21)". In Surah Anfal, (verse ) the Qur'an says: واعلموا انما اموالكم واولادكم فتنة "Know that your wealth and children are a trial..." The demand of this knowledge is mentioned in Surah At-Taghabun (Verse 14): فاحذروهم "...so beware of them". Thus on these occasions first the knowledge of different things are imparted, and then it is enjoined to fulfil the demands of that knowledge.
In this context, although the Holy Prophet :arabic5: had prior knowledge of the Oneness of Allah, the injunction here is for the Holy Prophet :arabic5: to fulfil the demand of this fundamental knowledge, that is," وَٱسۡتَغۡفِرۡ لِذَنۢبِكَ ask forgiveness for your faults (47:19)". The Holy Prophet :arabic5: is infallible and immune from sin, and therefore the possibility that he would commit sins is unthinkable. Despite this, the possibility of Allah's Holy Prophets committing misjudgment in Ijtihad cannot be ruled out. But, according to the sacred law, such mistakes are not regarded as sins. In fact, they are rewarded, though the prophets عليهم السلام are told about the correct position, and keeping in view the high status of the prophets, such mistakes too are sometimes referred to as "dhanb" (fault or sin), as for instance in Surah 'Abasa [80] the Holy Prophets] was criticized for his misjudgment. The details will be set out when discussing that Surah. The error of judgement referred to in that Surah was not really a sin. In fact, a reward was promised to him for that, but because it was not in conformity with his high status, Allah Ta'ala expressed His dislike. This type of "dhanb" (fault) is referred to in the current verse.

Note:
Sayyidna Abu Bakr Siddiq رضى الله عنه reports that Allah's Messenger :arabic5: said: Recite لا إله إلا الله la-ilaha-illallah and استغفار istighfar frequently because Iblis (Satan) says, I got people involved in sins and destroyed them, but they destroyed me by reciting la-ilaha-illallah, so I got them involved in false and baseless thoughts and notions which they pursue as true, authentic and righteous, (for instance, the common religious innovations (bid'at), because they treat them as righteous,) hence, they do not feel any need to repent for their practice of innovations.
...
48:2
لِّيَـغۡفِرَ لَكَ اللّٰهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنۡ ذَنۡۢبِكَ وَ مَا تَاَخَّرَ وَيُتِمَّ نِعۡمَتَه عَلَيۡكَ وَيَهۡدِيَكَ صِرَاطًا مُّسۡتَقِيۡمًاۙ‏
Source: Ma'ariful Qur'an

Analysis of Verses
لِّيَـغۡفِرَ لَكَ اللّٰهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنۡ ذَنۡۢبِكَ وَ مَا تَاَخَّرَ, (so that Allah may forgive you of your previous and subsequent faults. ..." - 48:2). If the particle "lam" (translated above as 'so that') is taken to be for "ta'lil", it indicates the purpose for which, and the reason why, such a manifest Victory is given to the Holy Prophet :arabic5:. It is mentioned in this verse that the victory was given to him to bless him with three different bounties. The first bounty is forgiveness of all his past and future shortcomings. Attention was drawn in Surah
Muhammad that all Prophets عليهم السلام are infallible. Wherever words like ذنب dhanb and عصيان 'isyan (' sin' or 'fault') are attributed to them in the Qur'an, they are in relation to their lofty status. Works that are merely unadvisable contrary to the preferred practice are also referred to as dhanb in relation to the high status of the Prophets by way of reprimand. 'Previous' refers to shortcomings committed before conferment of prophethood, and 'subsequent' refers to shortcomings committed after the conferment of prophethood (Mazhari). The reason why this victory caused forgiveness for such shortcomings is that large masses of people entered the fold of Islam after it, and naturally the credit of spreading the call of Islam goes to the Holy Prophet for which he deserved the divine reward, and an increase in reward always entails forgiveness of the shortcomings.
Reply

Beardo
06-17-2009, 04:16 PM
I am Sunni, and did take the comment above offensively. Either way, please ignore my statement. Didn't expect it to turn into : :raging:
Reply

sur
06-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Word of GOD Almighty is very clear. Also i quoted some Ahadees. Kindly review them again. Ur scholar twisted the aayah to suit his pre-conceived ideology.

When quran says "sins" it means "sins".Here's something for giving false meaning to Quranic aayah:-
Quran:41:40:- Verily, those who Yulhiduna Fi(distort) Our Ayat are not hidden from Us.Is he who is cast into the Fire better or he who comes secure on the Day of Resurrection? Do what you will. Verily, He is All-Seer of what you do.







As I said calling something by different names doesn't change it's essence.

Prophet Adam(pbuh) dis-obeyed GOD what would u call it...??? "Tark-e-Awlaa" or "Mistake" or "sin" choice is urs. He did what he did. It's nature is not going to change by choice of words.........

Prophet Yunus(pbuh) disobeyed GOD, & got the punishment then asked for forgiveness....... so on. u know the story.

Prophet Ibraheem(pbuh) called his wife as his sister............ never herd of it??? I'll give u ahadees on that if u want.


So quran is NOT bluffing ....... follow Quran,,, DO NOT make Quran follow u , as above mufissir did.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
06-18-2009, 04:06 PM
^ I am not going to take an Ayah and interpret it with my own limited knowledge. These 'Ulama and Mufassireen has spent their complete lives researching the Qur'an and Hadeeth.

I believe all the Anbiya ('alaihimus salaam) are pure and chaste servants of Allaah Ta’ala. They are free from minor and major sins. If the Anbiya ('alaihimus salaam) were not pure and chaste, then Allaah Ta'ala would never have ordered their implicit and absolute obedience. He would not have levelled obedience to them as obedience to Him. He would not have said that to take bai't (allegiance) upon their hands is like taking bai't (allegiance) upon His Hands.

"And he who obeys the Nabi has indeed obeyed Allaah"; "Indeed those who had taken bai't (allegiance) with you, indeed they have taken bai't (allegiance) with Allaah, the hand of Allaah is above their hands." [Surah Muhammad: 10]

Ma'soom (sinless) is he who is the chosen and preferred servant of Allaah. His habits, traits and actions are all chosen by Allaah Ta’ala: Their hearts are completely free and pure from evil and satanic effects. Since Allaah Ta'ala has mentioned in the Qur'aan that the Anbiya are His chosen and special servants, it implies that they are so in every aspect of their lives. They are cleansed from internal as well as external faults and evils.

If any slip-up occurs in a Nabi, due to forgetfulness or mistake, then we attribute it to an outside factor and not an inherent fault. For example, the heat in boiling water is due to some outside factor (stove, etc.) and this heat is not an inherent or natural quality of water. The natural quality of water is coolness and not heat. If water is placed in a fire then it will extinguish it. In a similar way, the natural disposition of the Anbiyaa is purity and homogeneity. Hence a slip-up by a Nabi can never be counted as a sin, since they are not naturally disposed to evil. The mistake of Hadhrat Aadam (alaihi salaam) was due to forgetfulness. (I will try to look up the details of what 'ulama said in this regard and say later if required)

As already explained, the supposed 'mistakes' that some try to attribute to prophets are not in fact mistakes, but where prophets have a choice between doing two preferred actions, one perhaps more preferred than the other. Or maybe there is an action that they have done that benefits us to see the result of it.

An example would be the Messenger of Allah SAW showing us the Sajda sahu for when we forget an integral or pillar of the prayer. If not for Allah causing that to happen, then we would have never known what to do.
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...217a93da8fa826
All the scholars, of Ilmul Kalaam (experts in the field of Aqaaid and
beliefs) are unanimous that every prophet was free from Shirk (ascribing
partnership with Allah), Kufr (disbelief) and sins. (Shahul Aqaaid)

Allah Ta'ala has mentioned incidents of some prophets who were rebuked by
Allah for making decisions that were not contextually appropriate (judgment
by error). That is not a sin. However, due to their lofty status in the
sight of Allah Ta'ala, they were rebuked. An example of that is Rasulullah
(Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) granting freedom to the captives of the battle
of Badr. Allah Ta'ala rebuked Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) for
that. Granting freedom to captives was not a sin but an error in judgment.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
Reply

TestData
06-18-2009, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wth1257
Hello!


So I am a bit confused. As I understand it traditional Islam Muhammad never sinned. Yet in a few places of the Qur'an God corrects Muhammad. So what exactly is the teaching? This is something I have always been confused about.
Its very simple. Commiting a sin is not the same as making a mistake.

No He did not sin. If he ever made any mistakes, he was corrected by Allah (swt) revelations.
Reply

sledge_hammer
06-18-2009, 04:55 PM
So having more than the "allowable" number of wives was not a sin for Muhammad?
Reply

AabiruSabeel
06-18-2009, 05:26 PM
^no, in fact he was allowed to marry more than 4. And once Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala Himself made the nikah of our Prophet with one of his wives.

If you need more details, you can visit this link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546160

or search this forum, I am sure this must have been answered before. Visit the Family & Society section.
Reply

sledge_hammer
06-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Thank you for the reply AabiruSabeel.

However, the link does not really zero in on the question I have. This article speaks of his "multiple" wives, but really says nothing about having more than 4. Muhammad was married to 11 wives at once, wasn't he? I thought 4 was the maximum any Muslim man could be married to. And he also had many slaves. I don't understand how these things are allowable in Islam. I do understand that things were a bit different back then, compared to the present. But these just don't seem like "godly" things to be doing.

From my understanding many of his marriages were about unity and bringing people together. This seems political, but not religious.

Here are my questions:

Why was Muhammad allowed an exception? Apparently God said this was OK?

Why was he allowed to have sexual relations with his slaves as well as his wives?

-------------------

I don't intend any disrespect by asking these questions. Just trying to understand.

Hmmm...just joined, so i'm learning to work my way through the site. Hopefully this exact same topic hasn't been hashed out here before :)
Reply

Beardo
06-19-2009, 01:28 PM
Why was he allowed to have sexual relations with his slaves as well as his wives?

----

Not true. Could you show me your sources?

And about the multiple marriages, I'll let someone else answer that. I don't think my wording would be good. :X
Reply

AabiruSabeel
06-19-2009, 03:36 PM
This thread wasn't about Prophet's multiple marriages, but since this topic has cropped up, I will try to answer it.
format_quote Originally Posted by sledge_hammer
From my understanding many of his marriages were about unity and bringing people together. This seems political, but not religious.

Here are my questions:

Why was Muhammad allowed an exception? Apparently God said this was OK?
The Prophet's multiple marriage had Religious, social as well as political reasons.

This is what Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi says here:
Polygyny is permissible in Islam on the condition that the man treats all his wives equally, otherwise he should marry one only. Allah Almighty says, “And if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only).” (An-Nisa': 3)

However, Allah Almighty granted Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) something that is not allowed to any other Muslim. He Almighty allowed him to keep the wives that he had married and did not order him to divorce, replace any of them, or to marry anymore women. Allah Almighty says: “It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth nor that thou should change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesses.” (Al-Ahzab: 52)

This is because the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) have a special status: they are mentioned in the Qur`an as Mothers of the Believers. Allah Almighty says, “The Prophet is closer to the believers than their selves, and his wives are (as) their mothers.” (Al-Ahzab: 6)

Due to this honorable position, they were forbidden to remarry after the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah Almighty says, “And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the Messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him.” (Al-Ahzab: 53)

This means that if they were divorced, they would have been deprived of marriage for the rest of their lives, and they would also be deprived of the honor of being part the Prophet’s family, which is considered an unjust penalty when they had not done anything wrong.

Suppose that Allah had enjoined the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to choose only four of his wives and divorce the rest. This would mean that four of them would have been chosen to be the Mothers of Believers and the other five would have been deprived of the honor. This would have been a very awkward situation since none of those exemplary women deserved to be dismissed from the Prophet’s family and be denied the honor that she had gained.

Therefore, it was Allah’s will for them to remain as the Prophet’s wives as an exception to him only. This is based on Allah’s saying: “Lo! the bounty is in Allah's hand. He bestoweth it on whom He will. Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing.” (Al `Imran: 73)

As for the answer to the question: why did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) marry nine women in the first place? We can say that this is well known. He did not marry any of them for the reasons that the Orientalists falsely claim. It was not carnal desires, which made the Prophet marry any of his wives. If he were as they claim, he wouldn’t have been the young man married to a woman 15 years his senior. He was 25 when he married Khadijah who had been married twice before and had many children.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) lived all his youth with her in happiness. When she died, he called that year "The year of grief". He loved, respected and kept praising her so much even after her death to the extent that `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) used to be jealous of Khadijah despite her having been dead.

At the age of 53, after the death of Khadijah and after Hijrah (emigration to Madinah), the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) began to marry his other wives. He married Sawdah bint Zam`ah, who was an elderly lady, in order to be his housewife. He married the daughter of Abu Bakr, who was his friend and Companion, in order to strengthen their relationship although she was still too young to be married. Then he married Hafsah, `Umar’s daughter, so that both of his Companions, Abu Bakr and `Umar, would be granted the same honor, even though Hafsah was a widow and was not pretty.

He also married Umu Salamah who was a widow. When her husband, Abu Salamah, died, she thought she would never find a better husband. They had both emigrated and suffered a lot for the cause of Islam. She said in her grief as a widow: “Lo! We are Allah’s and Lo! unto Him we are returning.” (Al-Baqarah: 156) She prayed to Allah to help her and recompense her with a better husband, but she wondered whether she could ever marry someone better than her late husband. So Allah recompensed her for her grief and bestowed on her a far better husband who was Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). He married her and rewarded her for the loss of her husband and her abandoning her family in order to emigrate to Madinah.

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) married Juwayriyah bint Al-Harith in order to encourage her family to be Muslims. In the expedition of Bani al-Mustaliq, the Muslims captured a lot of Juwayriyah's kinsfolk, and when the Companions of the Prophet knew that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had married her, they set the captives free because they had become kin of the Prophet Muhammad. And so kin must not be captured.

The other woman was Um Habibah, the daughter of Abu Sufyan and who was the bitterest enemy of Islam. She had left her father and preferred to emigrate with her husband to Abyssinia (Al-Habashah) for the sake of Islam. But then her husband died and she became alone in a foreign land. What was the Prophet supposed to do in such case? Would he leave her without help? Of course not! So he sent his proposal to Negus (An-Najashi), the king of Abyssinia , and authorized him to pay her the dowry and to make the marriage contract while he was in Madinah. Another good reason for this marriage is that marrying the daughter of Abu Sufyan would make him less hostile to Islam due to the new kinship.

Therefore, he did not marry any of his wives for lust or worldly desires, but for the good of Islam in order to strengthen the ties between the people and the new religion, especially because kinship and blood relations were well respected among the Arabs.

In conclusion, by marrying those women, the Prophet aimed at unifying the Arabs and solving many problems. His wives became the Mothers of the Believers, teachers of the Muslim Ummah in family and women’s affairs, and related a lot about his family life even in the most private situations.

Everybody has private matters except the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who asked people to relate everything concerning his life in order to teach the Muslim Ummah and guide them to what is right.

The most important point is that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) set a good example for Muslims in all aspects of life including family life. A Muslim man can draw very good lessons from the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and in the way he treated his wives."
To summarize, let's enumerate the reasons:

First: To spread the Religion through eyewitnesses with all the details known only to intimate people. Aaishah RA, being so young, was able to tell all those details to the Muslims for more than 42 years. She had seen and learned so much from him. Her young age was a great advantage in this respect. She could tell what the Prophet used to do or say in all aspects of life, so that people do and say the same in the same situations
Aaishah RA, was the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the daily life of the Muslim and how it should go as was lived by the Prophet himself.

Second: To strengthen the relationships with his companions, he married Abu Bakr's daughter and Omar's daughter, married his daughters to Othman and Ali, May God be pleased with them all.

Third: out of mercy and rewarding to the early Muslim widows and divorcees he gave them the honor of marrying them himself (Husbands either died in battles or were non Muslims who divorced them.). Sawdah, Um-Salama and Habeebah were widows.

Fourth: The Prophet was being a role model for the Muslims being kind to the widows and to the people of the book who newly embraced Islam. He married Safiyah after her father, a Jew, embraced Islam, so giving him and his daughter the honor among his people.

Fifth: He wanted to have ties and links with the different nations of the world. When he married Mariya, all Egyptians were on his side, and when he married Jaweriyah, all her people (they were called the Bani Almustalaq and were captured by the Muslims after a battle),, they all embraced Islam

format_quote Originally Posted by sledge_hammer
Why was he allowed to have sexual relations with his slaves as well as his wives?
This has been thoroughly discussed here: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ave-girls.html
You can also check: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544596

format_quote Originally Posted by sledge_hammer
I don't intend any disrespect by asking these questions. Just trying to understand.
But your username was suggesting otherwise. :ermm:
format_quote Originally Posted by sledge_hammer
Hmmm...just joined, so i'm learning to work my way through the site. Hopefully this exact same topic hasn't been hashed out here before
Welcome to the Forum. You can visit the different sections of the site and use search option, so that you don't bring up topics that have already been discussed thoroughly.
Reply

glo
06-27-2009, 05:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Yanal
Muslims often point out that the OT is corrupted because it has the prophets sinning, and everyone knows that prophets become immune to sin when they are called by Allah (isn't that cool?)But that does not match up with the testimony of the Quran at all. From an e-mail I just wrote:The Quran indeed shows that all the prophets have sinned except for Jesus. A few examples, Surah 2:30 shows that the angels knew Adam and humanity in general would "spread mischief." Adam is also spoken of in 20:115 saying he "had no firm resolve." 11:46, 47 says that Noah had to repent also. 7:151 has Moses repenting. Finally, Q 47:19 has Allah telling Muhammad to repent for his sin. The Arabic is singular: You, Muhammad, repent for your OWN sins; it can NOT mean that he needs to somehow repent for his people's sins. The Arabic grammar does not permit it.
That's very interesting, Yanal.
I have never heard this perspective before.

The biblical perspective is very much that all of God's prophets made mistakes and committed sins, just like all human beings are in the habit of.
Interesting to see that the Qu'ran states the same thing.

As far as mainstream Christianity is concerned, Jesus is the only human to have been without sin.
Does it specifically say anywhere in the Qu'ran that Jesus did not sin?
Reply

Yanal
06-27-2009, 05:38 AM
:salamext:
It is really hard to determine if that is true because none of us have been there but here it describes the sinlessness of all Prophets:

Sura 22: 51: "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you*with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is wise and all-knowing. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased or hardened - this is why the wrongdoers are in open schism - so that those to whom knowledge has been given may realize that this is the truth from your Lord and thus believe in it and humble their hearts towards Him. Allah will surely guide the faithful to a straight path."
Reply

جوري
06-27-2009, 06:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
That's very interesting, Yanal.
I have never heard this perspective before.

The biblical perspective is very much that all of God's prophets made mistakes and committed sins, just like all human beings are in the habit of.
Interesting to see that the Qu'ran states the same thing.

As far as mainstream Christianity is concerned, Jesus is the only human to have been without sin.
Does it specifically say anywhere in the Qu'ran that Jesus did not sin?
are Lutherans considered part of the protestant church?
Martin Luther made Jesus into 'thrice' the adulterer

Christ committed adultery first of all with the woman at the well about whom St. John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying: "Whatever has he been doing with her?" Secondly, with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery whom he dismissed so lightly. Thus even Christ, who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died. (D. Martin Luthers Werke, kritische Gesamtausgabe [Hermann Bohlau Verlag, 1893], vol. 2, no. 1472, April 7 - May 1, 1532, p. 33)



This is to be found in Luther's Table-Talk (Weimar edition, vol. ii, page 107) . . . Here is the original: --
Christus adulter. Christus ist am ersten ein ebrecher worden Joh. 4, bei dem brunn cum muliere, quia illi dicebant: Nemo significat, quid facit cum ea? Item cum Magdalena, item cum adultera Joan. 8, die er so leicht davon lies. Also mus der from Christus auch am ersten ein ebrecher werden ehe er starb.


all the best
Reply

glo
06-27-2009, 07:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
are Lutherans considered part of the protestant church?
Martin Luther made Jesus into 'thrice' the adulterer

This is to be found in Luther's Table-Talk (Weimar edition, vol. ii, page 107) . . . Here is the original: --
Christus adulter. Christus ist am ersten ein ebrecher worden Joh. 4, bei dem brunn cum muliere, quia illi dicebant: Nemo significat, quid facit cum ea? Item cum Magdalena, item cum adultera Joan. 8, die er so leicht davon lies. Also mus der from Christus auch am ersten ein ebrecher werden ehe er starb.


all the best
Not being familiar with the Davinci Code I had not come across that quote until now.
Thank you for sharing it. I have found some interesting discussions and debates on the internet already, and various interpretations and thoughts on what Luther meant. I will spend some more time researching, when I have more time.

However, for the sake of this thread (which is about Muhammed) I will not go any further into the sinfulness or sinlessness of Jesus - it would really take the thread off topic ...
Perhaps in another world and another time ... :)
Reply

جوري
06-27-2009, 06:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Not being familiar with the Davinci Code I had not come across that quote until now.
Thank you for sharing it. I have found some interesting discussions and debates on the internet already, and various interpretations and thoughts on what Luther meant. I will spend some more time researching, when I have more time.

However, for the sake of this thread (which is about Muhammed) I will not go any further into the sinfulness or sinlessness of Jesus - it would really take the thread off topic ...
Perhaps in another world and another time ... :)

Greetings,

You are the one who brought up the sinlessness of Jesus as per christian understanding.. I am merely pointing out that he has been made thrice the adulterer.. as for interpretation or re-interpretation.. it is of no concern to me personally... I am not of your faith and I don't view Jesus as a God or an adulterer thus, it is something that the christian has to justify to him or herself not a Muslim..

all the best
Reply

Muhaba
06-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Prophet Muhammad (SAW) wasn't sinnless in that he wasn't capable of sinning but that he protected himself from sinning. It has been shown in various places in the Quraan that the Prophet (SAW) as well as all prophets were mere human beings and had human weaknesses. They were not angels nor some special creation.

In the following verses, Allah warns that if the Prophet (SAW) said anything from himself in Allah's Name, Allah would punish him. This shows that the Prophet was a human and capable of doing so but protected himself from disobeying Allah.

But Nay! I swear by that which you see and that which you see not,

That this is verily the word of an honored messenger;

It is not the word of a poet; little it is you believe!

Nor is it the word of a soothsayer; little admonition it is you receive.

(This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.

And if the Messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name.

We should certainly seize him by his right hand,

And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart;

Nor could any of you withhold (Us) from him.
(Surah 69 Al-Haqqah verses 38 - 47)


In Surah Yusuf Allah tells us about Prophet Yusuf (Joseph) (A.S) protecting himself from sinning in the following words:

Now the woman in whose house he was, began to tempt him, and one day she closed the doors and said, "COme here." Joseph replied, "May Allah protect me from this! My Lord (Allah) has given me a good abode (and should I, then, misbehave like this?) Such workers of iniquity never fare well." She advanced towards him, and he also would have advanced towards her, had he not perceived his Lord's argument....

Commentary: "His Lord's argument" means inspiration from Allah to rouse his conscience to the fact that it was not worthy of him to yield to the temptation by the woman. As regards the question, "What was that argument," it has been stated in the preceding verse, that is, "My Lord has shown much kindness towards me. Should I, then, misbehave like this? Such workers of iniquity never fare well." This was the "Divine argument" that saved Prophet Joseph in the prime of youth from that great temptation.

The significane of "Joseph also would have advanced toward her, had he not seen his Lord's argument" is this: "Even a Prophet like Joseph (A.S) could not have been able to save himself from sin, had not Allah guided him rightly with His argument. Incidently, this verse makes plain the nature of the "Immunity" of Prophets from sin. It does not mean that a Prophet is infallible and incapable of committing any error, offence, or sin or doing wrong or making a mistake. What it means is this: though a Prophet possesses passions, emotions, and carnal desires like other human beings, and is capable of committing a sin, he is so virtuous and God-fearing that he never deliberately cherishes any evil intentions, for he is endowed with such great arguments from his Lord as do not allow the lusts of the flesh over-power the voice of his conscience. And if ever he succumbs inadvertently to any of the human weaknesses, Allah at once sends a Revelation to him to set him on the right path. For the consequences of his error do not remain confined to his own person but react on the whole mankind, for even his slightest error might mislead the world to the most horrible sins.

Surah 12 (Yusuf) verse 23 - 24 (Translation and Commentary from the Meaning of Quraan by Saeed Abu Al Ala Maududi)
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'Abd-al Hakim
06-29-2009, 02:19 PM
:sl:

This is not only the case of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) but with every messenger of God. They had to make a complete example to their nations as how to act good or how to repent. They symbolized their entire existance to the humanity so that no confusion/difficulties left around if any of us got the similar situation. Therefore, God usually put them into trouble specially when they do mistakes. For example, Younus(pbuh) were eaten by a fish by comitting a mistake, Haroon(pbuh) prostrated the non-god i.e. the cow. Adam(pbuh) did mistake in paradise. Last messenger Muhammad(pbuh) did swear not to eat honey for their wives. Afterall, they all were human beings, but they all repent and had been forgiven in their life aswell so they all were dead sinless. Regards, Copyright©²ºº³ RoswellSoft™ Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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AntiKarateKid
06-29-2009, 07:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
That's very interesting, Yanal.
I have never heard this perspective before.

The biblical perspective is very much that all of God's prophets made mistakes and committed sins, just like all human beings are in the habit of.
Interesting to see that the Qu'ran states the same thing.

As far as mainstream Christianity is concerned, Jesus is the only human to have been without sin.
Does it specifically say anywhere in the Qu'ran that Jesus did not sin?
I have no clue where he got that from though. Where does it say that?
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AntiKarateKid
06-29-2009, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
That's very interesting, Yanal.
I have never heard this perspective before.

The biblical perspective is very much that all of God's prophets made mistakes and committed sins, just like all human beings are in the habit of.
Interesting to see that the Qu'ran states the same thing.

As far as mainstream Christianity is concerned, Jesus is the only human to have been without sin.
Does it specifically say anywhere in the Qu'ran that Jesus did not sin?
Yanal has erred a bit. Noone is totally sinless in Islam. The verse he is basing his view on is theone in Surah Maryam.

The Arabic word, which is often translated as “holy”, is “zakiyya”. First it’s important to look for the exact meaning of the word “zakiyya”. Different quran translators havetranslated it in different ways.
Yusuf Ali:[019:019] He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) tothee the gift of a holy son.
Sher Ali:[019:019] The angel said, `I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son.'
Shakir:[019:019] He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
Pickthall:[019:019] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
Sale:[019:019] He answered, verily I am the messenger of thy Lord, and am sent to give thee a holy son.

Noowhere has it ever been translated as sinless so Yanal's view is not correct.

"Every son of Adam is a sinner, and the best of sinners are those who repentconstantly". - Ibn Majah, Tirmizi, Darimi

If Jesus was an exception, it would have been mentioned by the Prophet pbuh.
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Muhaba
06-30-2009, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Hakim
:sl:

This is not only the case of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) but with every messenger of God. They had to make a complete example to their nations as how to act good or how to repent. They symbolized their entire existance to the humanity so that no confusion/difficulties left around if any of us got the similar situation. Therefore, God usually put them into trouble specially when they do mistakes. For example, Younus(pbuh) were eaten by a fish by comitting a mistake, Haroon(pbuh) prostrated the non-god i.e. the cow. Adam(pbuh) did mistake in paradise. Last messenger Muhammad(pbuh) did swear not to eat honey for their wives. Afterall, they all were human beings, but they all repent and had been forgiven in their life aswell so they all were dead sinless. Regards, Copyright©²ºº³ RoswellSoft™ Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Haroon (A.S) didn't prostrate before a false god.

Allah says in the Quraan in Surah 20 (Ta Ha):


85. (Allah) said: "Verily! We have tried your people in your absence, and As-Samiri has led them astray."

86. Then Musa (Moses) returned to his people in a state of anger and sorrow. He said: "O my people! Did not your Lord promise you a fair promise? Did then the promise seem to you long in coming? Or did you desire that wrath should descend from your Lord on you, so you broke your promise to me (i.e disbelieving in Allah and worshipping the calf)?"

87. They said: "We broke not the promise to you, of our own will, but we were made to carry the weight of the ornaments of the [Fir'aun's (Pharaoh)] people, then we cast them (into the fire), and that was what As-Samiri suggested."

88. Then he took out (of the fire) for them a statue of a calf which seemed to low. They said: "This is your ilah (god), and the ilah (god) of Musa (Moses), but [Musa (Moses)] has forgotten (his god).'"

89. Did they not see that it could not return them a word (for answer), and that it had no power either to harm them or to do them good?

90. And Harun (Aaron) indeed had said to them beforehand: "O my people! You are being tried in this, and verily, your Lord is (Allah) the Most Beneficent, so follow me and obey my order."

91. They said: "We will not stop worshipping it (i.e. the calf), until Musa (Moses) returns to us."

92. [Musa (Moses)] said: "O Harun (Aaron)! What stopped you when you saw them going astray;

93. "That you followed me not (according to my advice to you)? Have you then disobeyed my order?"

94. He [Harun (Aaron)] said: "O son of my mother! Seize (me) not by my beard, nor by my head! Verily, I feared lest you should say: 'You have caused a division among the Children of Israel, and you have not respected my word!' "


95. [Musa (Moses)] said: "And what is the matter with you. O Samiri? (i.e. why did you do so?)"

96. (Samiri) said: "I saw what they saw not, so I took a handful (of dust) from the hoof print of the messenger [Jibrael's (Gabriel) horse] and threw it [into the fire in which were put the ornaments of the Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) people, or into the calf]. Thus my inner-self suggested to me."

97. Musa (Moses) said: "Then go away! And verily, your (punishment) in this life will be that you will say: "Touch me not (i.e.you will live alone exiled away from mankind); and verily (for a future torment), you have a promise that will not fail. And look at your ilah (god), to which you have been devoted. We will certainly burn it, and scatter its particles in the sea."

98. Your Ilah (God) is only Allah, the One (La ilaha illa Huwa) (none has the right to be worshipped but He). He has full knowledge of all things.

99. Thus We relate to you (O Muhammad ) some information of what happened before. And indeed We have given you from Us a Reminder (this Qur'an).

100. Whoever turns away from it (this Qur'an i.e. does not believe in it, nor acts on its orders), verily, they will bear a heavy burden (of sins) on the Day of Resurrection,

101. They will abide in that (state in the Fire of Hell), and evil indeed will it be that load for them on the Day of Resurrection;

102. The Day when the Trumpet will be blown (the second blowing): that Day, We shall gather the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists, sinners, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, etc.) Zurqa: (blue or blind eyed with black faces).

103. In whispers will they speak to each other (saying): "You stayed not longer than ten (days)."

104. We know very well what they will say, when the best among them in knowledge and wisdom will say: "You stayed no longer than a day!"


http://noblequran.com/translation/index.html
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