Between Conversion & Humanity

[MadhavanR]

dear members,

first i wish to introduce myself. i am madhavan from malaysia. i am currently practicing hinduism. and do not have much understanding on Islam and the sharia law. i am here to clarify some of the doubts that i have pretaining to conversion to Islam and the sharia law. i hope that some of the members here could help to clarify the doubts that i have.

if i accidentally mention something that i should not mention, or it happen to hurt anyone's feelings, i wish to express my sincere apologies upfront.

for your kind information, we have 2 law system here in malaysia. 1 is the civil law (for non-muslim) and the other is the sharia law (for the muslims).

the doubt that i have is is pretaining a conversion issue that has been much talked about in malaysia recently .

the event goes as below.

in a family of 5 (husband, wife and 3 children), the husband has embraced islam (on his own will) and wants to get his children to be converted too. among the children is a 11 month old baby who is still under breastfeeding from the mom while the other 2 are at the age 12-13.

the husband obtains the birth certificates of all the children (that is after he himself converting to islam) and also takes custody of the 11 month baby and converts all three of the children into islam. (please note that the other 2 children were not present for the conversion nor they know about the conversion being done by the father).

at later part it has came to the knowledge of the mother that the children were also converted to islam without her consent.(she is aware that the husband has converted previously). the schools where the 2 children were studiying were also notified of the conversion.

now the question here that i wish to ask is,

1. as far as i am aware of islam does allow a child to convert to islam without the consent of their parent. but does islam allow children or any aged people to be converted without their own knowledge.(that is by just producing their birth certificates). if so, does that mean if anyone who can acquire my birth certificate could also convert me to islam without my consent or presence ?

2.when the husband has converted to islam, he is officially a muslim and has his name changed. yet the childrens birth certificate and the marriage certificates are still under his old name. does the sharia law or islam provides the medium to automatically declare that the convert is the rightful father or husband without having to change the names on the document. (as if we look clear into it, it simply becomes a kidnap case instead of a conversion case from the civil law point of view)

3.an 11 month old baby has been converted to islam without taking into consideration that the child is still being brestfed by the mother. what are the rules and regulation that could be followed by the mother to gain access to the child so that the child could still be breastfed and so on. does islam or sharia law accomodate to this ? (please note that the mother is still a hindu)

i would also like to welcome anyone to provide their views and comments, and quote the points from sharia law and islam itself for better understanding.

again, if the article i have written hurts anyones feelings, i wish to appologize again to all of you.

hope to get feedback from you guys, thanks.

Madhavan

[جوري]

:bump:

someone knowledgeable pls answer this gent..

Thank you

:w:

[Muhammad]

Greetings Madhavan,

Welcome to the forum. It is good of you to seek clarification on aspects of Islamic law that you might not understand.

Islamic (or Shariah) Law is a divine system of perfect justice. To speak about it and say what it allows and disallows, requires sound knowledge of it in the first place. Unfortunately, as many of the members here are limited in this regard, the best we can do is point you to places that are more knowledgeable.

Some useful places you could consult are:

http://www.islamqa.com/en
http://www.mrdf.co.uk/component/opti...tact/Itemid,3/
http://www.islamtoday.com/

And perhaps there are some forums that might also be able to assist you.

I hope you will find the answers you need. I am sorry I could not be of more help.

Peace.

[Sampharo]

Hey Madhavan,

Allow me to help you out here with your questions:

1- Conversion into Islam is be Shahada, declaration of belief that God is one and that Mohammed is his Apostle. There is no order or church that you get your name written in in order to be a muslim, on the other hand practicing and belief is fundamental to being one. Therefore there is no way a person can be "converted" behind their back. Whether or not a father can change anything that is written in a child's identification papers without their knowledge is a question to ask the administration department, not us. A person is a muslim or not based on whether or not he made and believes in the declaration mentioned above, and does not have any bearing whatsoever whether or not he is written as so, in his legal or identification documents.

2- No country in the World takes away the right of fatherhood based on a name change. Shariah law preserves a father's rights to his children no matter what, and he will never be accused of kidnapping simply because he made a name change (notwithstanding a momentary misunderstanding with a cop who stops them to check and if the father can't demonstrate that they are his children). You need to check with a lawyer though about custody issues and all that in Malaysia, and whether civil law will apply considering the Hindu origin of the couple. Shariah law of Islam does not recognize or deal with western thoughts of a parent "kidnapping" his or her own child based on custody. In general in Islamic Shariah, legal custody and guardianship is to the father, while physical custody is to the mother until the custodial age is ready for transfer, many circumstances have effects though and there is a whole chain that starts with the grandfather of transfer and so on I think. You will need to seek a dedicated person to study the specific case and deal with its issues in Malaysia.

3- Just as a correction: an 11 month child is not "converted" to anything. I don't know about anyone else's, but mine seems to be only talented in gulping milk, waking up my poor wife at night, and looking cute after filling her diaper with a juicy treat for us to clean! :D The child is not going to have religious ideals changed in its mind at that age and there is nothing in Sharia law that prevents a mother from breastfeeding her baby.

I need to add however that Malaysia has announced recently a change to the laws governing custody and conversions. Apparently, some husbands who were on the verge of divorce, used to want to subvert custodial laws by claiming convergence to Islam, in order to use Malaysia's dominance of Shariah law for muslims to claim custody of the children. That was adjusted recently to maintain that if a conversion is made and a divorce follows in its heels, children will maintain legally the original religion and civil law will apply.

Note however that if someone truly converts, it doesn't matter what documents say. Muslims are that way through a declaration, and they are not accountable until they reach puberty. Like I mentioned about the 11 month old child, it will not have any religious thoughts anyway. It is the job of the father if he converts to maintain the relationship with the children, and the children can convert as soon as they reach puberty or whenever they feel like it even before anyway. Talk however to someone professional in your country to determine what needs to be done in your specific situation, there are things I may not know.

Hope this helps.

And God always knows Best