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ragdollcat1982
05-23-2009, 12:34 AM
I have been asked by both family, friends and strangers as to why I have taken up the hijab a few months ago. I often cite 1. Corinthians 11:4-7 to justify from a biblical prespective my reason for doing so, because God commands it. Often I have been told that a latter verse in the same chapter says that a womans hair has been given to her for a covering and that a cloth covering or hat is not nessecary. Sadly this verse has been misinterperted. I found an interesting artilce from a Christian prespective that examines this issue. So I do not think that a Chrisitan woman voluntarily wearing the hijab is not incompatiable with Christian teaching, if anything it is very compatiable.


http://www.biblicalresearchreports.c...ring-today.php
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YusufNoor
05-23-2009, 04:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I have been asked by both family, friends and strangers as to why I have taken up the hijab a few months ago. I often cite 1. Corinthians 11:4-7 to justify from a biblical prespective my reason for doing so, because God commands it. Often I have been told that a latter verse in the same chapter says that a womans hair has been given to her for a covering and that a cloth covering or hat is not nessecary. Sadly this verse has been misinterperted. I found an interesting artilce from a Christian prespective that examines this issue. So I do not think that a Chrisitan woman voluntarily wearing the hijab is not incompatiable with Christian teaching, if anything it is very compatiable.


http://www.biblicalresearchreports.c...ring-today.php
have you ever seen a picture of Mary, the mother of Jesus, wearing anything other than a hijab?

:w:
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Malaikah
05-23-2009, 06:28 AM
Shouldn't we be seeing more Christian women covering their hair if this is the case?
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glo
05-23-2009, 08:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I have been asked by both family, friends and strangers as to why I have taken up the hijab a few months ago. I often cite 1. Corinthians 11:4-7 to justify from a biblical prespective my reason for doing so, because God commands it. Often I have been told that a latter verse in the same chapter says that a womans hair has been given to her for a covering and that a cloth covering or hat is not nessecary. Sadly this verse has been misinterperted. I found an interesting artilce from a Christian prespective that examines this issue. So I do not think that a Chrisitan woman voluntarily wearing the hijab is not incompatiable with Christian teaching, if anything it is very compatiable.


http://www.biblicalresearchreports.c...ring-today.php
Hi ragdollcat

I think it is perfectly acceptable for a Christian woman to cover her head if she chooses to do so.
Like your article states, there are different views and interpretations on the Bible verses relating to this topic - but covering your head certainly does not contradict Biblical teachings.
Some Christians nuns still wear the veil, other Christian groups cover their hair; and in medieval times it was common for women to wear a headscarf not unlike the hijab.

Perhaps it is a case of following one's own conviction. :)
Like I said I have found using a prayer shawl when praying very beneficial at times.

Do you get negative responses for wearing hijab? Or are people more curious?
What convinced you to wear hijab in the first place?
Are you doing it alone or with other likeminded women?

You just keep doing what you believe is right, ragdollcat!
:)

God bless
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ragdollcat1982
05-23-2009, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
have you ever seen a picture of Mary, the mother of Jesus, wearing anything other than a hijab?

:w:


No sister I have not and one can still find many devout Orthodox Christian women wearing the same thing. If one has seen the movie my Big Fat Greek Wedding, you will notice that grandma wears a headcover that covers all of her hair. I dont cover all of it nessecarily sometimes I will let my bangs show and there have been times I go out of the house uncovered and I do not like how I feel I cover about 3/4 of the time. I have some slip on hijabs that do cover all of my hair and I love them the most. Mary is portrayed as having the front of her hair exposed in the same fashion as I may wear mine.
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ragdollcat1982
05-23-2009, 01:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Shouldn't we be seeing more Christian women covering their hair if this is the case?

I would think so, but like the article says many misinterpert and twist the verses meaning around. My paternal aunt who claims to follow all of the bible literally disapproves of me wearing hijab. I asked her if she is so devout than why does she not cover her head in some fashion whether it be with a scarf or a hat.
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ragdollcat1982
05-23-2009, 02:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Hi ragdollcat



Do you get negative responses for wearing hijab? Or are people more curious?
What convinced you to wear hijab in the first place?
Are you doing it alone or with other likeminded women?

You just keep doing what you believe is right, ragdollcat!
:)

God bless

I have gotten mixed reactions. When I was at the mall Christmas shopping this year I had a teenage girl come up from behind me and try to rip my scarf off of my head and told I need to go back to where I blanking came from. Boy was she surprised to see blonde hair and green eyes! I have had some curious people ask me why I do it and I tell them because God commands it and no I am not a Muslim but a Christian and that hijab has been around long before Islam came into being. I am doing it alone right now but I have some support online from likeminded sisters.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-23-2009, 05:30 PM
Ohhhh I'd be so angry if someone did that to me :-[
But mashaAllah, keep donning that hijab! :D
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Zico
05-23-2009, 06:03 PM
Why I Wear a Headcovering: A Christian Woman's Perspective

The wearing of a headcovering for religious purposes in America is not limited to Muslims. Many Christian women cover their heads either full-time or for prayer. Where does this "tradition" come from?

Biblical Command

The command to wear a headcovering while praying is found in the first book of Corinthians. Many modern Christians do not believe that this command is relevant today, which is why most Christian women do not cover their heads. It is not my intention to try to
prove them wrong. Instead, I hope to help fellow Christians better understand the reasons that some Christian women do practice headcovering.

The fact that the Bible says: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. (1 Cor. 11:5) is enough to convince many Christian ladies to cover their heads while in prayer. That we are told elsewhere in the scriptures to pray without ceasing seems to indicate that Christian women should cover their heads at all times.

I am well aware, having read extensively on the subject, of all of the arguments against covering. However, none of the arguments have convinced me otherwise. To myself and other headcovering Christian ladies, there are no ifs, ands or buts about it. God set it down in His word, and that is good enough for me.

Misconceptions

Some people may assume that Christian women who cover do so because they were raised that way. In fact, all of the Christian women I know who cover were led to do so as adults.

Another misconception about covered ladies (as well as those who dress modestly and/or plainly) is that their husbands, misogynists on a religious power trip, force them to do so. Again, all of the Christian ladies I know who cover, including myself, choose to wear a headcovering of their own free will.

Holier-than-thou?

What if you are a Christian woman who does not cover? You may feel that those of us who do cover think we are holier-than-thou. The opposite is actually true in many cases.

The wearing of a Christian headcovering is a very humbling experience. It was after I outgrew the, "Oh, look at that so-and-so...I would never do that!" phase and started looking closely at myself that I was led to cover my head during prayer.

Salvation Issue?

Most Christian ladies who practice headcovering do not believe it is essential to one's salvation. Salvation is a free gift of God and made possible through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. To cover in obedience to scripture is not an attempt to earn one's way
into Heaven; and to decide not to cover is not going to send any woman who has accepted God's free gift of salvation to Hell.

The decision to wear a headcovering was not an easy one for me. I always felt that my long blond hair was one of my best features and was reluctant to cover it up. I worried about what people would think. I was scared of being different from the world around me.

But God is faithful and true, and He has used the covering and the testimony it carries to change my life and the lives of people who I encounter in my daily walk through life.


Source: http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...g2.html?cat=47
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glo
05-23-2009, 07:33 PM
That's very interesting, Zico. Thanks for sharing. :)

I can certainly understand that covering yourself would be a very humbling experience indeed.
I also quite like the idea of having an external sign which signals to other people your way of life.

But this below quote demonstrates in my mind the difference between hijabi Muslimahs and head-covering Christian women:

format_quote Originally Posted by Zico
Most Christian ladies who practice headcovering do not believe it is essential to one's salvation.
Salvation is a free gift of God and made possible through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
To cover in obedience to scripture is not an attempt to earn one's way into Heaven;
and to decide not to cover is not going to send any woman who has accepted God's free gift of salvation to Hell.
Salaam :)
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Muezzin
05-23-2009, 08:04 PM
Women of all Abrahamic faiths are required to/should cover their hair.
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جوري
05-23-2009, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I have gotten mixed reactions. When I was at the mall Christmas shopping this year I had a teenage girl come up from behind me and try to rip my scarf off of my head and told I need to go back to where I blanking came from. Boy was she surprised to see blonde hair and green eyes! I have had some curious people ask me why I do it and I tell them because God commands it and no I am not a Muslim but a Christian and that hijab has been around long before Islam came into being. I am doing it alone right now but I have some support online from likeminded sisters.
Probably surprised to learn that you are not Muslim, the same way you would be surprised from your description of the event to learn that not all Muslim sisters have dark hair beneath their scarves?.. even those from eastern origin. my niece a product of a red headed mother and a brown haired father and she came out blond, many wondrous things exist indeed.. I fear the west has a certain prototype of what a Muslim looks like and that is why they always remain in a state of fear (they are fighting with a religion) not a race.. we certainly don't come only from the middle east in fact middle eastern Muslims make up only 20% of the 1.86 billion Muslims in the world and even middle eastern Muslims from the 'sham' region and those in Turkey have pretty European features-- we are certainly not a one size fits all, although I appreciate your plight with the random haters!


peace
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Grace Seeker
05-24-2009, 02:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Shouldn't we be seeing more Christian women covering their hair if this is the case?
Well, as ragdollcat1982 says, most Christians don't understand those verse to be speaking a universal command for all time to all women. And that is why most Christian women don't feel the compulsion that ragdollcat1982 does. However, she is most certainly not alone. In the part of the USA where I live there are large numbers of Amish and Mennonite women who regularly wear their hair covered. Some just have a small cap on top and their hair shoes out underneath it. Others, put their hair up so that it is completely covered under a hat. I don't know any Christians here in my part of the country who wear an actual hijab, but I do in other countries. And all because of the verse that ragdollcat1982 shared.
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Yanal
05-24-2009, 02:05 AM
I never/rarely see Christian women wearing head covers...maybe not many know about this ?
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Malaikah
05-24-2009, 03:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
No sister I have not and one can still find many devout Orthodox Christian women wearing the same thing. If one has seen the movie my Big Fat Greek Wedding, you will notice that grandma wears a headcover that covers all of her hair.
My apologies if this comes across as ignorant, but is head covering associated with widows in some Christian cultures?
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عاشق نبي
05-24-2009, 09:40 AM
If Christian women start covering their head, more power to them. The only thing is that they should adapt a distinct style, so that they dont appear to be muslims.
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Follower
05-24-2009, 12:03 PM
What if these verses have nothing to do with actually covering of the hair but with submission of the woman to the man as the head of the household? We know through Jesus' teachings that GOD is more concerned with what is in our heart.

What if wearing a head scarf makes you believe that you are more submissive and so better then the woman not wearing a scarf?

How much of the head needs to be covered? Can a small cap like the one the Amish wear do the job- you can see through these very thin caps? How about the scarves tied behind the neck- the group in southern Canada and northern North Dakota- can't think of their name.

How do you understand this verse:
1 Corinthians 11
6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

Any cutting hair no matter the length is shorn, but check out the 4th definition.

shear - sheared or shorn,
–verb (used with object)
1. to cut (something).
2. to remove by or as if by cutting or clipping with a sharp instrument: to shear wool from sheep.
3. to cut or clip the hair, fleece, wool, etc., from: to shear sheep.
4. to strip or deprive (usually fol. by of): to shear someone of power.
5. Chiefly Scot. to reap with a sickle.
6. to travel through by or as if by cutting: Chimney swifts sheared the air.

The scarf/hat wearing for the woman no longer holds the meaning of being submissive- it is a fashion statement. The Christian woman has a choice and she can show her submission to her husband in other ways.
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glo
05-24-2009, 12:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
If Christian women start covering their head, more power to them. The only thing is that they should adapt a distinct style, so that they dont appear to be muslims.
Can you explain why that would be of importance?

Peace
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Woodrow
05-24-2009, 12:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
If Christian women start covering their head, more power to them. The only thing is that they should adapt a distinct style, so that they dont appear to be muslims.
Here you and I differ on opinion. I believe it is appropriate for all women to cover their heads. What is a more appropriate cover than the hijab?

Among us Muslims the style of hijab does differ from culture to culture, it would be difficult to say what type of head cover is or is not Islamic. If it covers in accordance with sunnah and is halal, the style will not matter and if a non-Muslim woman chooses to cover, if the scarf does cover properly, it is going to be some form of hijab.

If a non-Muslim woman chooses to cover, I believe we should encourage it if her intentions for covering are to respect Allaah(swt)
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عاشق نبي
05-24-2009, 12:52 PM
Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity. This is the reason why we Muslim men trim down or shave our mustaches, so as not to be mistaken as Jews, as Jewish men grow large mustaches and usually dont cut their mustaches, so our beloved Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salam said to keep a distinct style different from jews and pagans. Also, it is sunnah to wear turban that is wrapped around a cap, which is opposite to pagans especially sikhs who wrap their turbans around their head without a cap underneath it. Another example is that it is haram in Islam to shave part of your head and keep some hair (i.e. mohawk) because this was a pagan custom (and still is). I can give so many more examples but I think the point is clear.

Therefore back to the original subject, how christian women should cover their head, they should have some unique style so that no one will mistake them for muslims.
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glo
05-24-2009, 12:57 PM
^
Should our main focus then be on differentiating ourselves from those of other faiths, or should our main focus be on worshipping and gloryfying God?

(Incidentally, wearing a cap underneath the turban hardly contributes to 'looking different' from Sikhs, since it cannot be seen externally)
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عاشق نبي
05-24-2009, 01:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
^
Should our main focus then be on differentiating ourselves from those of other faiths, or should our main focus be on worshipping and gloryfying God?

(Incidentally, wearing a cap underneath the turban hardly contributes to 'looking different' from Sikhs, since it cannot be seen externally)
Of course our main purpose should be to worship and glorify God the almighty. Nevertheless, God doesnt just want us to worship Him as individuals, but also as a community, and each community has their own customs and traditions which make them unique from others.

Regarding turban, there are several variations of wearing turban in Islam. The cap can be left exposed at the top, so that the fabric is encircled around it. Muslim turbans usually have one or two tails, as was the custom of our Prophet peace be upon him. Thus it is very easy to tell who is a sikh and who is a muslim from examining the different style of their turbans.
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glo
05-24-2009, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
Regarding turban, there are several variations of wearing turban in Islam. The cap can be left exposed at the top, so that the fabric is encircled around it. Muslim turbans usually have one or two tails, as was the custom of our Prophet peace be upon him. Thus it is very easy to tell who is a sikh and who is a muslim from examining the different style of their turbans.
That wasn't immediately obvious from your previous post.
Thank you for clarifying. :)
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Muezzin
05-24-2009, 01:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
Therefore back to the original subject, how christian women should cover their head, they should have some unique style so that no one will mistake them for muslims.
You've kind of missed your own point.

Muslims are not supposed to imitate non-Muslims. What you're describing is non-Muslims imitating Muslims.

But anyway, nuns' headscarves look different to traditional (whatever that means) Muslim headscarves. Some Christian women wear hats to cover their hair.

Some Jewish women wear wigs to cover their hair.

...Which looks like it defeats the point, but there you go.
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Follower
05-24-2009, 01:23 PM
I see the discussion is veering towards outward appearance and not what is in the heart!

LOL!! "Some Jewish women wear wigs to cover their hair ...Which looks like it defeats the point, but there you go". Yes, is this women really submissive in her heart or is she more concerned about looking good?

The whole issue is about being submissive, is there submission in the heart or is it simply an act of trying to look submissve?

Is the Muslims woman more submissive then the Christian woman? Can you tell by the way they wear their scarves?

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.
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Woodrow
05-24-2009, 01:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity. This is the reason why we Muslim men trim down or shave our mustaches, so as not to be mistaken as Jews, as Jewish men grow large mustaches and usually dont cut their mustaches, so our beloved Prophet salallahu alaihi wa salam said to keep a distinct style different from jews and pagans. Also, it is sunnah to wear turban that is wrapped around a cap, which is opposite to pagans especially sikhs who wrap their turbans around their head without a cap underneath it. Another example is that it is haram in Islam to shave part of your head and keep some hair (i.e. mohawk) because this was a pagan custom (and still is). I can give so many more examples but I think the point is clear.

Therefore back to the original subject, how christian women should cover their head, they should have some unique style so that no one will mistake them for muslims.
I agree with you for the most part. But, the responsibility on us is to avoid imitating non-Muslims. I fail to see the connection if non-Muslims choose to copy us. That has happened many times another example is the Rosary Beads used by Catholics, they were copied from our Dhiker Beads. We are not copying them, they are copying us.

Also the hijab has been common wear among Christians up until a few hundred years ago. It is not a new innovation and should not cause confusion. Here are examples of the typical clothing worn by my ancestors in Lithuania and is still worn by many Lithuanians.







In the neighboring country of Latvia the woman's clothing looks even more Islamic. This is the national clothing of Latvian women.





The hijab was worn by both Christian and Jewish women during the time of the Prophet(PBUH) and it was not seen as imitating the Kafir for Muslim women to wear it. It is in obedience to Allaah(swt), not for the intent of imitating either. The hijab seems to be traditional for the 4 Abrahamic Faiths Judaism, Christianity, Sabian and Muslim. I do not think it should be thought of as any imitating the other, but as an overall desire to obey Allaah(swt) even if some do not fully obey.

If Christian women wearing the Hijab are mistaken for Musilimahs, perhaps that is a step on the right path and the beginning of them accepting Islam.
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ragdollcat1982
05-24-2009, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Ohhhh I'd be so angry if someone did that to me :-[
But mashaAllah, keep donning that hijab! :D

She was a teenager, if I was angry at any one it is her parents for teaching her bigotry.
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ragdollcat1982
05-24-2009, 02:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by عاشق نبي
If Christian women start covering their head, more power to them. The only thing is that they should adapt a distinct style, so that they dont appear to be muslims.

I have to disagree respectfully. Muslims did not corner the market on covering the hair. In Biblical times, Jewish women would cover in a similar manner as Muslim women do today as they orginally were people of the desert. If I were to visit some Islamic countries I would be required to dress in an Islamic fashion despite not being Muslim. I have examined Christian headcoverings and IMHO they do not cover enough of the hair to be modest.
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ragdollcat1982
05-24-2009, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
I

The whole issue is about being submissive, is there submission in the heart or is it simply an act of trying to look submissve?

Is the Muslims woman more submissive then the Christian woman? Can you tell by the way they wear their scarves?


I do not think that Muslim women are more submissive than Chrisitan women by the way they wear their scarves. The hijab should be an outward reflection of what is in the heart of the woman wearing it and that is obediance to God. I do think that most likely both Muslim and Chrisitan women who cover their hair certainly are more submissive to the will of God than those who do not cover thier hair. But in the end only God can judge the inside of a person.
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ragdollcat1982
05-24-2009, 02:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I agree with you for the most part. But, the responsibility on us is to avoid imitating non-Muslims. I fail to see the connection if non-Muslims choose to copy us. That has happened many times another example is the Rosary Beads used by Catholics, they were copied from our Dhiker Beads. We are not copying them, they are copying us.

Also the hijab has been common wear among Christians up until a few hundred years ago. It is not a new innovation and should not cause confusion. Here are examples of the typical clothing worn by my ancestors in Lithuania and is still worn by many Lithuanians.







In the neighboring country of Latvia the woman's clothing looks even more Islamic. This is the national clothing of Latvian women.





The hijab was worn by both Christian and Jewish women during the time of the Prophet(PBUH) and it was not seen as imitating the Kafir for Muslim women to wear it. It is in obedience to Allaah(swt), not for the intent of imitating either. The hijab seems to be traditional for the 4 Abrahamic Faiths Judaism, Christianity, Sabian and Muslim. I do not think it should be thought of as any imitating the other, but as an overall desire to obey Allaah(swt) even if some do not fully obey.

If Christian women wearing the Hijab are mistaken for Musilimahs, perhaps that is a step on the right path and the beginning of them accepting Islam.

Woodrow thank you for the comparsions and the pictures clearly illistrate that hijab and headcovering is practiced by all Book religions, not just Islam. As we all do worship the same God and have the same orgins.
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Muezzin
05-24-2009, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
I see the discussion is veering towards outward appearance and not what is in the heart!
1) False dichotomy. What is in the heart often influences outward appearance.

2) The point of this thread is what is in the heart influencing outward appearance.

LOL!! "Some Jewish women wear wigs to cover their hair ...Which looks like it defeats the point, but there you go". Yes, is this women really submissive in her heart or is she more concerned about looking good?
I don't know where you're getting the word 'submissive' from. Submissive to the Creator (I won't write the G word in case I offend the sensibilities of any Jewish readers)?

But wearing a wig because your religion requires you to cover your hair does defeat the point in my opinion.

The whole issue is about being submissive, is there submission in the heart or is it simply an act of trying to look submissve?
No, the whole issue is not about 'being submissive'. It's about the fact that the orthodox versions of all Abrahamic faiths require their womenfolk to cover their hair. Again, where does submission come into it? Other than submission to the edicts of the Creator?

Is the Muslims woman more submissive then the Christian woman? Can you tell by the way they wear their scarves?
Again, other than submission to the will of the Creator, where does submission come into the equation?

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.
How is that relevant to this subject?
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Follower
05-24-2009, 08:23 PM
The whole point of a Christian woman covering her head is submission.

1 Corinthians 11
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God

My understanding for the Muslim woman that it is for modesty reasons.

It used to be very common for Christian women to wear hats to church until around the 1960’s in all churches then around the late 1970’s I think Catholics stopped too. Maybe because it did become too much of a fashion statement?!?

It was mentioned:

“The only thing is they should adapt a distinct style, so that they don’t appear to be muslims.”

“And Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity.”

I believe this statement makes it all about outward appearance.


“How is that relevant to this subject?”

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.

Someone mentioned:

“Of course our main purpose should be to worship and glorify God the almighty. Nevertheless, God doesnt just want us to worship Him as individuals, but also as a community, and each community has their own customs and traditions which make them unique from others.”

I was simply pointing out a common believe amongst Christians.
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جوري
05-24-2009, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
The whole point of a Christian woman covering her head is submission.
my guess is less than 1% of Christian women do? What does that say about 'Christian women at large'?
1 Corinthians 11
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God

My understanding for the Muslim woman that it is for modesty reasons.
You have no understanding of Islam and it doesn't matter how many folks reply to you, I don't believe you even commit to the act of 'comparative religion' given your repetition of the same nonsense even if the topic had been covered in the post on top of yours? Islam = to submit to the will of God by definition, so how did your chosen definition reign supreme

It used to be very common for Christian women to wear hats to church until around the 1960’s in all churches then around the late 1970’s I think Catholics stopped too. Maybe because it did become too much of a fashion statement?!?
Indeed, I am sure shedding more clothes is better in concert with less fashion and more conformity with God's commands?

It was mentioned:

“The only thing is they should adapt a distinct style, so that they don’t appear to be muslims.”

“And Problem is that if Christian starts covering their head in a way similar to Muslims people will mistake their identity, and this will not only be detrimental to Muslims it will also be detrimental to Christians, as their religious identity is being taken away from them. dress is very important part of identity.”

I believe this statement makes it all about outward appearance.
That is the statement of one individual and doesn't reflect the whole.. although I do indeed find it surprising that a western christian woman would cover up, given 90% of sex on TV alone is pre or extramarital, I don't see a point in covering the hair in 'submission' when more important parts are exposed and on an international level.. I wonder how that translates to the whole inward outward thing? or what it even means for Christianity as a religion? you know if we are going to speak of books that will withstand the test of time (as per your other thread), part of that would be commands that are relevant today as they were millenniums ago? is the bible relevant today as it was then if ever? or to just a nano percent of the population?

“How is that relevant to this subject?”

Christians believe in community also- Communion of Saints=spiritual union of all Christians.

Someone mentioned:

“Of course our main purpose should be to worship and glorify God the almighty. Nevertheless, God doesnt just want us to worship Him as individuals, but also as a community, and each community has their own customs and traditions which make them unique from others.”

I was simply pointing out a common believe amongst Christians.
It still doesn't make any sense in relation to the topics.. also the whole point of religion is to bypass stupid traditions for religious edicts.. and if your bible states cover your head, then it seems like a divine injunction rather than a choice?


all the best
Reply

Follower
05-24-2009, 09:56 PM
Fashion statements:

http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/200...out-in-style/4
Reply

جوري
05-24-2009, 09:58 PM
what does this have to do with anything?
Reply

Follower
05-25-2009, 02:02 PM
Christian women covering their heads for prayer.
Reply

glo
05-25-2009, 02:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Those a truly wacky hats!! :D
I have never seen anything like this in my church. :)
Reply

جوري
05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Christian women covering their heads for prayer.

I saw five lovely black ladies, do they represent all of Christianity? And is this the proper head cover Jesus asked for?
got to tell you just walking home by the boardwalk today and even though it isn't quite that warm yet, there were many of them happy to shed their clothes and soak the sun in their panties.. So the point if there was one, is lost to me!

all the best
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2009, 12:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
My understanding for the Muslim woman that it is for modesty reasons.

That is basically my understanding too, that women in Islam are commanded to cover their head because her beauty is not to be something that would cause men to desire her in inappropriate ways. Thus her beauty is to be reserved for her husband.

Skye, is that understanding true? Could you state it correctly, please, if I am in error?
Reply

جوري
05-26-2009, 12:14 AM
this should cover your queries:

Women in Islam - Part 15- The Veil ?
Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
The Myth and The Reality

By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.- Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada
PART 15 - THE VEIL ?
Finally, let us shed some light on what is considered in the West as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". 77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78 The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81
What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).
St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that requires women to cover their heads in church. 82 Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God", which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. 83
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).
The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).
This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better to be safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished:
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (Quran 24:4)
Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible:
" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deut. 22:28-30)
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?
Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like Queen's has a 'walk home service' mainly for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I could not believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:

  • In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,
  • 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,
  • 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,
  • 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
  • A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.

Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer but as K. Gibran has said, "...for the person who receives the blows is not like the one who counts them." 84 Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn for the purpose of showing the authority of man by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of protection by Muslim women.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2009, 12:14 AM
this should cover your queries:

Women in Islam - Part 15- The Veil ?
Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
The Myth and The Reality

By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.- Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada
PART 15 - THE VEIL ?
Finally, let us shed some light on what is considered in the West as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, the veil or the head cover. Is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let us set the record straight. According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. 76 He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen....a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". 77 Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. 78 The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. 79 Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. 80 Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig. 81
What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).
St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man. St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers..." Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that requires women to cover their heads in church. 82 Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is that "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God", which is the same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament. 83
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam did not invent the head cover. However, Islam did endorse it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).
The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).
This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better to be safe than sorry. In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished:
"And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors" (Quran 24:4)
Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible:
" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deut. 22:28-30)
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?
Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: fine but not enough. If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America dare not walk alone in a dark street - or even across an empty parking lot ? If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like Queen's has a 'walk home service' mainly for female students on campus? If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace reported on the news media every day? A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States! I could not believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:

  • In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,
  • 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,
  • 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,
  • 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
  • A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.

Something is fundamentally wrong in the society we live in. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Actually, we all suffer but as K. Gibran has said, "...for the person who receives the blows is not like the one who counts them." 84 Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn for the purpose of showing the authority of man by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of protection by Muslim women.
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2009, 12:34 AM
Thank-you. I'm not sure that I completely agree with the author's understanding of the Christian view of the veil, but I did glean from the article regarding the Muslim view, which I think affirms what I previously understood regarding the purpose for the veil in Islam, this as key:
The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom:
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).
The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).
This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection. Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection.

May I ask how that works in practice for you as a doctor? Do you need to wear a loose fitting or a tight veil (or perhaps some other headdress) when performing surgery? Which works better? Or, given that pretty much everyone in a surgery has their hair covered already, maybe you don't even need to worry about it in that circumstance?
Reply

جوري
05-26-2009, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Thank-you. I'm not sure that I completely agree with the author's understanding of the Christian view of the veil, but I did glean from the article regarding the Muslim view, which I think affirms what I previously understood regarding the purpose for the veil in Islam, this as key:
Those are the reasons for humankind, but it is done ultimately for the pleasure of Allah swt.


May I ask how that works in practice for you as a doctor? Do you need to wear a loose fitting or a tight veil (or perhaps some other headdress) when performing surgery? Which works better? Or, given that pretty much everyone in a surgery has their hair covered already, maybe you don't even need to worry about it in that circumstance?
You may not ask me of what I do, I don't answer personal questions on a forum or in private..

peace
Reply

doorster
05-26-2009, 12:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Christian women covering their heads for prayer.
covering their head yet baring their bosoms!

you should be censored and barred from posting external links in open forums, It cant be all that difficult to do after all they have had enough practice (doing it to me)
Reply

جوري
05-26-2009, 12:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
covering their head yet baring their bosoms!

you should be barred from posting external links in open forums, It cant be all that difficult to delete your links after all they have had enough practice (doing it to me)

rofl that made me laugh...:D:D
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2009, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
covering their head yet baring their bosoms!
Hopefully those that follow the first practice would not be participating in the second. :statisfie
Reply

doorster
05-26-2009, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Hopefully those that follow the first practice would not be participating in the second. :statisfie
somehow brother follower seems to have gotten the knack of shooting himself in the foot each time he draws out his (metaphorical) 6 shooter before he can aim it at us
Reply

coddles76
05-26-2009, 01:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I have been asked by both family, friends and strangers as to why I have taken up the hijab a few months ago. I often cite 1. Corinthians 11:4-7 to justify from a biblical prespective my reason for doing so, because God commands it. Often I have been told that a latter verse in the same chapter says that a womans hair has been given to her for a covering and that a cloth covering or hat is not nessecary. Sadly this verse has been misinterperted. I found an interesting artilce from a Christian prespective that examines this issue. So I do not think that a Chrisitan woman voluntarily wearing the hijab is not incompatiable with Christian teaching, if anything it is very compatiable.


http://www.biblicalresearchreports.c...ring-today.php
Your stepping closer and closer to islam which is the true teachings of Jesus PBUH so I commend you on that. Well done!
Reply

doorster
05-26-2009, 01:29 AM
....
Reply

Yanal
05-26-2009, 01:57 AM
:sl:
Here is what I found what a christian feels about this:
[QUOTE]
Most Christians consider the command for women to have their heads covered in church to be a "cultural" command because apparently at the time it signified that she was under the authority of her husband.

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Since we don't see a woman wearing a head covering as anything more than that, the majority of Christians, at least in the United States don't consider a woman wearing a head covering to be applicable in our society.
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by doorster
@ grace seeker
now I am regretting sucking up to you, but unfortunately it is enforced on me, if and when I reply to you as you truly deserve my post will magically be edited by some invisible power or anon member of staff or be made to disappear completely. However it is not as harassing as it used be under the rule of abdul fatah/steve who used to send threatening and abusive PM and eMail messages too (but then again, at least it was clear who the peson backing you was then)

Regarding the behavior of Christian women there seems to be no problem ridiculing the idea that some might practice, in your own words, "covering their head yet baring their bosoms!" It is my belief my belief that this sort of odd behavior is not limited to Christians but can be found even in Islam. Rather than mock those who fall prey to this perverted view of self-worth that finds it only in putting one's body on display, hiding from the fact that these are realities among some of the young people in virtually every faith system, or regretting that others bring these behaviors to light, maybe it would be better to pray for those who are being led astray into such unrighteous behaviors that they might return to the path that God has willed for their lives.
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-26-2009, 05:20 PM
I would suggest not saying in Islam. Muslims sure, as Muslims aren't perfect but don't say Islam! :/

*Clarification*

I know what Grace Seeker meant but I think it's fair to clear it up :D
Reply

Follower
05-27-2009, 12:34 PM
doorster - How are these women in the picture with the hats baring their bosom?

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I saw five lovely black ladies, do they represent all of Christianity? And is this the proper head cover Jesus asked for?
got to tell you just walking home by the boardwalk today and even though it isn't quite that warm yet, there were many of them happy to shed their clothes and soak the sun in their panties.. So the point if there was one, is lost to me!

all the best
Gossamer skye and doorster do you represent all of Islam?
Reply

جوري
05-27-2009, 02:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
doorster - How are these women in the picture with the hats baring their bosom?



Gossamer skye and doorster do you represent all of Islam?
how does your query relate to the topic?
try to focus..

all the best!
Reply

Follower
05-27-2009, 02:24 PM
LOL! skye - Didn't somone ask if the women in the picture represented all Christian women?

Christian people are all individuals. I know that this has not always been the case, but Christianity allows people to retain culture - an example, 'pagan symbols' became Christian symbols.

A person's "native" costume does not have to change.

As a Christian I understand that oppossed to when Christianity was spreading across the Americas that a "native" can remain "half naked in our eyes" and completely modest or prayerful in their native culture.
Reply

ragdollcat1982
05-27-2009, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Women of all Abrahamic faiths are required to/should cover their hair.

You are quiet right. For Christian women they at least should cover their hair when praying or in church yet many of them refuse to follow even that minium requirment.
Reply

جوري
05-27-2009, 04:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
LOL! skye - Didn't somone ask if the women in the picture represented all Christian women?

Christian people are all individuals. I know that this has not always been the case, but Christianity allows people to retain culture - an example, 'pagan symbols' became Christian symbols.

A person's "native" costume does not have to change.

As a Christian I understand that oppossed to when Christianity was spreading across the Americas that a "native" can remain "half naked in our eyes" and completely modest or prayerful in their native culture.
Again, Religion should overshadow customs...
Your standards aren't the standards set by God nor are they what is liked by God, as it so appears in your own bible!

all the best
Reply

doorster
05-27-2009, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
LOL! skye - Didn't somone ask if the women in the picture represented all Christian women?

Christian people are all individuals. I know that this has not always been the case, but Christianity allows people to retain culture - an example, 'pagan symbols' became Christian symbols.

A person's "native" costume does not have to change.

As a Christian I understand that oppossed to when Christianity was spreading across the Americas that a "native" can remain "half naked in our eyes" and completely modest or prayerful in their native culture.
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
doorster - How are these women in the picture with the hats baring their bosom?



Gossamer skye and doorster do you represent all of Islam?
you are the one who chose those semi-nude women to represent Christianity, I personally do not know of any practising Catholic Christian ladies who look or behave like the ones you posted photo-links to


Originally Posted by Follower


Christian women covering their heads for prayer.
covering their head yet baring their bosoms!

you should be censored and barred from posting external links in open forums, It cant be all that difficult to do after all they have had enough practice (doing it to me)
Reply

glo
05-27-2009, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
doorster - How are these women in the picture with the hats baring their bosom?
Follower, when I first followed your link, I only looked at the first picture. Now I have scrolled down further I have to say that one picture is particular is pretty revealing. (Certainly much more revealing than I would any woman in church to be!)
Reply

Follower
05-27-2009, 09:20 PM
"you are the one who chose those semi-nude women to represent Christianity, I personally do not know of any practising Catholic Christian ladies who look or behave like the ones you posted photo-links to"

LOL! I have no idea what religion Tyra Banks follows. I doubt any Christian woman would wear an evening gown to church.

LOL! My comments and link were simply to the photographs about the ladies with the hats.

So are all of you offended by South America or African "natives" that wear very liitle clothing?!
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Yes, it burns my precious little eyes. I don't want to see that O.o
Reply

All4Allaah08
05-27-2009, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Yes, it burns my precious little eyes. I don't want to see that O.o
:giggling:

About Headcovering, I was recently talking to my Grandmother about my conversion, I brought up the topic of hijab, she had problems with me covering, she said "we don't do that in america", then brought up many excuses trying to convince me not to wear it, such as, it's hot, people would harass me, other Muslim women are trying not to wear it, but I told her the bible mentions covering the head, her reply was "where?" (in the bible), she said "if its in the Old testament, we don't follow that" I said it's in the New testament, she didn't even know.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-27-2009, 10:30 PM
^^ loool :p Glad u found it funny.

MashaAllah sis welcome to Islam :wub:
May Allah guide ur grandmother, ameen! :D
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Najm
05-27-2009, 11:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Yes, it burns my precious little eyes. I don't want to see that O.o
AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

Precisely...ditto

Nobody wants to see that!

FiAmaaniAllah
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All4Allaah08
05-27-2009, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
^^ loool :p Glad u found it funny.

MashaAllah sis welcome to Islam :wub:
May Allah guide ur grandmother, ameen! :D
Ameen, thanks sis :wub:
:w:
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ummsara1108
05-28-2009, 01:26 AM
Very very interesting post and site you left, ragdoll1982 and ty
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ummsara1108
05-28-2009, 02:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by grace seeker
regarding the behavior of christian women there seems to be no problem ridiculing the idea that some might practice, in your own words, "covering their head yet baring their bosoms!" it is my belief my belief that this sort of odd behavior is not limited to christians but can be found even in islam. Rather than mock those who fall prey to this perverted view of self-worth that finds it only in putting one's body on display, hiding from the fact that these are realities among some of the young people in virtually every faith system, or regretting that others bring these behaviors to light, maybe it would be better to pray for those who are being led astray into such unrighteous behaviors that they might return to the path that god has willed for their lives.

bravo!!!!
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glo
05-28-2009, 06:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by All4Allaah08
:giggling:

About Headcovering, I was recently talking to my Grandmother about my conversion, I brought up the topic of hijab, she had problems with me covering, she said "we don't do that in america", then brought up many excuses trying to convince me not to wear it, such as, it's hot, people would harass me, other Muslim women are trying not to wear it, but I told her the bible mentions covering the head, her reply was "where?" (in the bible), she said "if its in the Old testament, we don't follow that" I said it's in the New testament, she didn't even know.
Interesting how your grandmother seems more concerned with how you have changed on the outside than how your beliefs about God have changed on the inside ...
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All4Allaah08
05-28-2009, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Interesting how your grandmother seems more concerned with how you have changed on the outside than how your beliefs about God have changed on the inside ...
Well, she was accepting of it, from her own words, she believes no matter what religion one is, we're all "children of God." she knows we believe in Jesus, I don't think she knows about our other beliefs about him though (not the son of God..etc), if she did, she'll go crazy, so I won't go there with her yet since I'm living with her :X lol
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Follower
05-28-2009, 07:32 PM
It is not a disgrace for women to cut their hair and so they do not need to cover their heads ever!!

1 Corinthians
6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
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Grace Seeker
05-29-2009, 05:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
It is not a disgrace for women to cut their hair and so they do not need to cover their heads ever!!

1 Corinthians
6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
Actually, I think you have drawn a conclusion from this different than what Paul intended. It seems to me that Paul is writing from the position of an apriori assumption that it is indeed a disgrace for a woman to have a shaved head, that is why he states the second half of that sentence as he does: "If it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off [and, Paul would say, it is], then she should cover her head." Thus making Paul's point even stronger that he actually intends to shame women into covering their head by cutting off (not just cutting short) the hair of any woman who does not cover it.

Again, I think that was something that arose out of the culture in which he lived and is not a statement that is meant to be universally applicable. But I do think that in 1st century Corinth Paul saw it is an issue he felt very strongly about that women should have covered heads, and that is what he is affirming in this verse. A view which is quite the opposite of what you have inferred.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-29-2009, 07:24 PM
Women were covered way before Paul though, were they not? Whether it was Pauls idea or not, should women not take the example of the women such as Mary if they think they want to be good followers?
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ragdollcat1982
05-29-2009, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by All4Allaah08
:giggling:

About Headcovering, I was recently talking to my Grandmother about my conversion, I brought up the topic of hijab, she had problems with me covering, she said "we don't do that in america", then brought up many excuses trying to convince me not to wear it, such as, it's hot, people would harass me, other Muslim women are trying not to wear it, but I told her the bible mentions covering the head, her reply was "where?" (in the bible), she said "if its in the Old testament, we don't follow that" I said it's in the New testament, she didn't even know.


I am a Chrisitan hijabi and at this point my whole family has disowned me for wearing hijab and my abayas ( I love them so much!!!) . A month ago I ran into one of my paternal aunts(dads brothers wife) and this time I was not covered, but dressed modestly though and she told me that I look so much prettier than "covered in all of that garb":raging I am "too pretty " to be dressing like that. I told her it isnt about me not liking my appearance, it is about obeying the commands of God and I even gave her bible refernaces, not good enough. Last week I ran into her again, covered and she told me I was "unAmerican" and that I have "defied" her advice. I told her I am 26 years old a married women and a mother and I will dress how I darned well please. She told me I was not welcome at her home or in any family gatherings including holidays until I come to my senses and give up this nonsense. I have nothing to do with my mom or her family, but that is not for my religion or dress reasons.
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ragdollcat1982
05-29-2009, 09:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Women were covered way before Paul though, were they not? Whether it was Pauls idea or not, should women not take the example of the women such as Mary if they think they want to be good followers?
Yes sister we should.
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GreyKode
05-29-2009, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
Yes sister we should.
subhanallah sister, I truly admire the strength of your faith and your commitment to please only GOD, you are a true inspiration for all believers muslims and non-muslims alike. May ALLAH bless your soul.
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Grace Seeker
05-29-2009, 09:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I told her I am 26 years old a married women and a mother and I will dress how I darned well please. She told me I was not welcome at her home or in any family gatherings including holidays until I come to my senses and give up this nonsense. I have nothing to do with my mom or her family, but that is not for my religion or dress reasons.
Ragdoll, I'm sorry to hear of the conflict in your family. They are trying to force their own cultural standards on to you. They are standards that, should they look at them from outside themselves, they would see are completely secular in nature. They say that you are unAmerican. Yet, the American Constitution gives you the freedom to express yourself in your speech and dress however you so desire as long as it doesn't interfere with another person's liberty. Sadly, they are the one's who are unAmerican as they don't even understand that this country is about principles that give the very freedom they would deny you. But fortunately, because what is and is not truly American is determined by law and not their opinion, they have, as you pointed out above, no authority to impose their will on you.

Even though I, personally, don't agree with your conclusion on the necessity of wearing the hijab, these other women are the one's who are actually in the wrong here.

Sadly, I do suspect they may be so stubborn as to hold to their ill-conceived thinking a long time. But there childlike behavior is no reason that you should change your mind on what is right and wrong simply because they are in effect throwing a tantrum. If you believe that wearing the hijab is the right thing to do because it is God's will, then no person should stand in your way of following what you believe God has instructed you to do, even if it costs you your family.

Praying for you, and that they may see the light.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-29-2009, 10:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by GreyKode
subhanallah sister, I truly admire the strength of your faith and your commitment to please only GOD, you are a true inspiration for all believers muslims and non-muslims alike. May ALLAH bless your soul.
Agreed :)
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All4Allaah08
05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I am a Chrisitan hijabi and at this point my whole family has disowned me for wearing hijab and my abayas ( I love them so much!!!) . A month ago I ran into one of my paternal aunts(dads brothers wife) and this time I was not covered, but dressed modestly though and she told me that I look so much prettier than "covered in all of that garb":raging I am "too pretty " to be dressing like that. I told her it isnt about me not liking my appearance, it is about obeying the commands of God and I even gave her bible refernaces, not good enough. Last week I ran into her again, covered and she told me I was "unAmerican" and that I have "defied" her advice. I told her I am 26 years old a married women and a mother and I will dress how I darned well please. She told me I was not welcome at her home or in any family gatherings including holidays until I come to my senses and give up this nonsense. I have nothing to do with my mom or her family, but that is not for my religion or dress reasons.
Wow, thats good to hear that you cover, Allah bless you. That lady sounds like my family, they also says I'm "too pretty" to cover, that my hair looks beautiful and I should show it, lol, also by saying it doesn't look good. But at the end of the day, we all cover for Allah, to please and obey Him, not other people :)
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ragdollcat1982
05-29-2009, 11:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by All4Allaah08
Wow, thats good to hear that you cover, Allah bless you. That lady sounds like my family, they also says I'm "too pretty" to cover, that my hair looks beautiful and I should show it, lol, also by saying it doesn't look good. But at the end of the day, we all cover for Allah, to please and obey Him, not other people :)


I was raised by my maternal aunt and uncle who had custody of me. My dads family had me for a month in the summer. My dads sisters were mere children when I was born, they thought I was a doll instead of a human they would dress me up and paint my face up and fix my hair. As I got to be a teenager after I came to live with my mom they would put provactivly clothing on me, paint my face up like Jezaebel and they seem to make sure they did this when MEN were visiting usually freinds of my dad or boys my age. I looked like a harlot and many times these men would come onto me and of course I rejected them and if they left my aunts would accuse me of being unfriendly to these men, they were company in the South hospitality is important and I should have sat down on their lap if they insisted after all they were being friendly and didnt mean any harm+o( I can think they were trying to marry me off and my father never stepped in and said a word about this. So I guess that is why now I feel the call to cover because I dont like being exploited and looked at like a piece of meat. I am married but if I were not I would want a man to judge me for my charachter, not my looks.
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ragdollcat1982
05-30-2009, 12:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by All4Allaah08
Wow, thats good to hear that you cover, Allah bless you. That lady sounds like my family, they also says I'm "too pretty" to cover, that my hair looks beautiful and I should show it, lol, also by saying it doesn't look good. But at the end of the day, we all cover for Allah, to please and obey Him, not other people :)

I guess sister if we were ugly they would not object to us covering:uuh:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 01:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I was raised by my maternal aunt and uncle who had custody of me. My dads family had me for a month in the summer. My dads sisters were mere children when I was born, they thought I was a doll instead of a human they would dress me up and paint my face up and fix my hair. As I got to be a teenager after I came to live with my mom they would put provactivly clothing on me, paint my face up like Jezaebel and they seem to make sure they did this when MEN were visiting usually freinds of my dad or boys my age. I looked like a harlot and many times these men would come onto me and of course I rejected them and if they left my aunts would accuse me of being unfriendly to these men, they were company in the South hospitality is important and I should have sat down on their lap if they insisted after all they were being friendly and didnt mean any harm+o( I can think they were trying to marry me off and my father never stepped in and said a word about this. So I guess that is why now I feel the call to cover because I dont like being exploited and looked at like a piece of meat. I am married but if I were not I would want a man to judge me for my charachter, not my looks.

SubhanAllah...Allah guided your heart this far sis. This is why Allah tells us to cover, but people don't understand. This is where real liberation surfaces from :) Props to you sis :wub:
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Yanal
05-30-2009, 01:14 AM
Soon Christians tht do practise this might stop because from a strangers point of view it might look like they are muslim converts...
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 01:16 AM
Well, those who are true to it like many Muslim sisters won't let it stop them :). At least it'll break this notion.
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Yanal
05-30-2009, 01:18 AM
But what about the weak ones ? May Allah grant them courage.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 01:22 AM
Right, that's true too. Ameen.
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ragdollcat1982
05-30-2009, 01:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Jr
Soon Christians tht do practise this might stop because from a strangers point of view it might look like they are muslim converts...


It would not stop me and if they think I am Muslim that is fine. Are we not all people of the Book?
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 01:59 AM
Yes we are. You definitely act like those that Allah makes mention of.

Whats holding you back sis from being a Muslim? Just curious :)
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ragdollcat1982
05-30-2009, 02:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Yes we are. You definitely act like those that Allah makes mention of.

Whats holding you back sis from being a Muslim? Just curious :)


I cannot shed the belief that Jesus was the Son of God. I truly believe that in my heart and in my core.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 02:01 AM
Ok I see. Thanks for answerin :)
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ragdollcat1982
05-30-2009, 02:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
Ok I see. Thanks for answerin :)
Your welcome sister. I have prayed many times on this and I will continue too. However I will continue on this forum to learn about Islam as one can never have too much knowledge.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 02:11 AM
InshaAllah sis. It's nice to have you here :)
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Yanal
05-30-2009, 02:19 AM
Tht is great tht the religion Christianity is so strong in faith in your heart,wish a few others had tht type too.
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Follower
05-30-2009, 02:55 PM
I believe that the New Testament was written for all times- to be used today just as it was during the age of the disciples. Paul writes from inspiraton of the Holy Spirit, Jesus chose Him personally to teach spread the Gospel.

Yes I agree that Paul saw it is an issue he felt very strongly about that women should have covered heads in his day.

Why add the second part of the verse?

I believe the through the Holy Spirit Paul is showing what is ok in todays culture for women to pray without covering their heads.

How did Paul know that in todays culture it would be ok for a woman to cut her hair? He didn't but the Holy Spirit did!!

ragdollcat- I want you to know that I am not against your choice just that Jesus did not preach legalism in anyway.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-30-2009, 02:59 PM
You can't say it's for all times and then say it was only for Pauls day?
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GreyKode
05-30-2009, 03:06 PM
How did Paul know that in todays culture it would be ok for a woman to cut her hair? He didn't but the Holy Spirit did!!
I thought it said SHAVE her head:rollseyes.
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seeker-of-light
05-30-2009, 05:07 PM
some of the most devout women in christianity wear head scarves. this is to show that they submit to god (think the mary images or nuns) and that their primary concern on this earth is to do his will.
i believe thats more christians should wear the head scarf. it shows to others not only are the pious, but it also protects against the increasing secularism in the west. i wear the headscarf as a muslim, but that is not to say that christians shouldnt, i think it is a wonderful practice=)
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Wyatt
05-30-2009, 09:15 PM
I see and like the Islamic view of it, but the Bible verses that claim that women should cover their heads state that it is because women dishonoureth men, for whom they were created, by not wearing it.

That seems a bit... :X
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ragdollcat1982
05-31-2009, 12:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower



ragdollcat- I want you to know that I am not against your choice just that Jesus did not preach legalism in anyway.


This has nothing to do with legalism. There are certian commands and rules in the New Testament for Christians to live by. There are rules governing church government, clergy qualifications, roles of man and wife in marriage, etc.
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Follower
05-31-2009, 12:55 PM
How is Paul writting for his time and today?

Today it is not a disgrace for a woman today to cut her hair to any length and so do not need to veil. Back in Paul's time it was a disgrace for women to cut their hair and they had long hair so they needed to cover it.

1 Corinthians 11
6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

Even today some women have never cut their hair, or if once cut as a child allow it to grow without cutting as adults. They don't realize that once cut hair is always then considered cut.

1 Corinthians 11
13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

I listed the definitons of shorn, but guess you didn't see it:
shorn  /ʃɔrn, ʃoʊrn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [shawrn, shohrn] Show IPA
–verb a pp. of shear.

shear  /ʃɪər/ verb, sheared, sheared or shorn, shear⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to cut (something).
2. to remove by or as if by cutting or clipping with a sharp instrument: to shear wool from sheep.
3. to cut or clip the hair, fleece, wool, etc., from: to shear sheep.
4. to strip or deprive (usually fol. by of): to shear someone of power.
5. Chiefly Scot. to reap with a sickle.
6. to travel through by or as if by cutting: Chimney swifts sheared the air.

Paul is not writing so much about hair or veils, but spiritual authority and rebellion of the heart. Jesus was all about what was in your heart and not outward appearances.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-31-2009, 01:35 PM
What Paul said and what is said in Corithinians is completely opposite. So either there is a contradiction or you are wrong or Paul is incorrect...
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Zafran
05-31-2009, 01:45 PM
Paul is not writing so much about hair or veils, but spiritual authority and rebellion of the heart. Jesus was all about what was in your heart and not outward appearances.
what about being clean? or having clothes on at all? those are outward appearances - to say Jesus pbuh was only about the internal is saying Jesus pbuh was no more then an ascetic - Lets not forget about circumsicion.
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Grace Seeker
05-31-2009, 03:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
How is Paul writting for his time and today?

Today it is not a disgrace for a woman today to cut her hair to any length and so do not need to veil. Back in Paul's time it was a disgrace for women to cut their hair and they had long hair so they needed to cover it.

1 Corinthians 11
6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

Even today some women have never cut their hair, or if once cut as a child allow it to grow without cutting as adults. They don't realize that once cut hair is always then considered cut.

1 Corinthians 11
13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

I listed the definitons of shorn, but guess you didn't see it:
shorn  /ʃɔrn, ʃoʊrn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [shawrn, shohrn] Show IPA
–verb a pp. of shear.

shear  /ʃɪər/ verb, sheared, sheared or shorn, shear⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to cut (something).
2. to remove by or as if by cutting or clipping with a sharp instrument: to shear wool from sheep.
3. to cut or clip the hair, fleece, wool, etc., from: to shear sheep.
4. to strip or deprive (usually fol. by of): to shear someone of power.
5. Chiefly Scot. to reap with a sickle.
6. to travel through by or as if by cutting: Chimney swifts sheared the air.

Paul is not writing so much about hair or veils, but spiritual authority and rebellion of the heart. Jesus was all about what was in your heart and not outward appearances.
Follower, you're not listening. If, as you say, Paul's words still apply today. Then women are not being given permission to cut their hair, but a command to keep it covered.
---------------------------------------------------

Let me revise that. To say you are not listening is too harsh. So, let me amend that to say: Follower, I don't see how saying that Paul gave women permission to cut their hair follows from the verse quoted. It appears to me to be more a case of Paul citing reasons as to why women should not cut their hair, namely that it is a disgrace for a woman to have it cut or shaved off. Therefore, they should keep their hair covered. The text doesn't say so, but those appear to be the only too options: covered or shaved. Apparently, at least in 1st century Corinth, it wasn't appropriate for women to go around with their hair flowing but uncovered. I believe this was something that was only done by prostitutes. And because of that habit, prostitutes who ran afoul of the law would often have their hair shaved off as a punishment. This is the reason that having one's hair cut was a sign of disgrace for women. So, to keep from being labelled as something that they weren't Christian women, at least in first century Corinth (and probably other places) were advised to keep their hair covered.

I, personally, don't believe that it was meant as a universal application for the reason behind it is no longer true. Thus I don't believe there is any shame to a woman having her head uncovered or her hair cut today. But for those who hold that this passage has a universal application, I don't see how it can be read to give permission to those things that Paul specifically says were a disgrace; surely it must be understood as a command for Christian women to continue to cover there heads, at least when in public.
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Follower
06-03-2009, 02:14 AM
I was listening, just not agreeing. :) LOL! - the words - if it is a disgrace speak differently to me.

The beauty of Christianity - individuality, diversity, different expressions of our one faith.
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Zafran
06-03-2009, 02:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
I was listening, just not agreeing. :) LOL! - the words - if it is a disgrace speak differently to me.

The beauty of Christianity - individuality, diversity, different expressions of our one faith.
Yep the holy ghost seriously works in mysterious ways - now your hearing things from a forum :skeleton:

Maybe its those "LOL!!" its getting to you.
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Follower
06-03-2009, 02:37 AM
Actually I have heard the Holy Spirit speak to me- a very cool experience.
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Zafran
06-03-2009, 02:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Actually I have heard the Holy Spirit speak to me- a very cool experience.
what about a forum?
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Follower
06-03-2009, 02:42 AM
Lol!!
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GreyKode
06-03-2009, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Actually I have heard the Holy Spirit speak to me- a very cool experience.
^o):muddlehea
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Zafran
06-03-2009, 02:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by GreyKode
^o):muddlehea
dont worry it explains the "LOLs":uuh::muddlehea
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-03-2009, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Actually I have heard the Holy Spirit speak to me- a very cool experience.
Are u sure it wasnt a jinn?:omg:
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Follower
06-04-2009, 03:40 PM
If you mean demons, yes I know it was not from them.

It had to do with some of my Catholic friends and the sitings of Mary at Medjugorje. They desparately wanted me to believe. I fretted over it and when I was not thinking on anything a clear voice said - 'it is not of your concern'.

With the understanding, do not be a stumbling block:

1 Corinthians 8
9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

In other words I was not to try and destroy the beliefs of my friends, fellow Christians who celebrate their faith in Jesus a bit differently then me- if they need the sitings of Mary to strengthen their faith- so be it.

I have had other instances- but more personnal that I won't go into.

And so getting back on topic - I believe as I said earlier if ragdollcat wants to cover her head for prayers ok, but a woman should not be forced to do so.
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malayloveislam
06-04-2009, 04:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower
Actually I have heard the Holy Spirit speak to me- a very cool experience.
^o):><::X
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ragdollcat1982
06-04-2009, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower



And so getting back on topic - I believe as I said earlier if ragdollcat wants to cover her head for prayers ok, but a woman should not be forced to do so.


I cover my hair most of the time when I leave the house. Lately I have slacked off due to the hot hot whether we are experincing.I never said a woman should be forced to cover even Muslim women, but if a Muslim woman truly follows her faith she will not be see covering as being forced upon her.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-05-2009, 01:40 AM
^^ditto :)
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malayloveislam
06-05-2009, 06:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
I cover my hair most of the time when I leave the house. Lately I have slacked off due to the hot hot whether we are experincing.I never said a woman should be forced to cover even Muslim women, but if a Muslim woman truly follows her faith she will not be see covering as being forced upon her.
:thumbs_up
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Follower
06-05-2009, 01:44 PM
A white cotton cloth would reflect the sun rays and protect you from burning and if a scarf is wrapped loosely would allow air to flow through it. You could wear your scarf like a skull cap or dew rag.

Do you attend an air conditioned church? You could always put it on before you enter.
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ragdollcat1982
06-05-2009, 04:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Follower

Do you attend an air conditioned church? You could always put it on before you enter.
Yes my church is air conditioned and I am still covering for services.:)
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glo
06-05-2009, 06:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
Yes my church is air conditioned and I am still covering for services.:)
Air conditioned churches?
Our church is so old with thick brick walls, it never seems to get warm inside ... even in the middle of summer! :)
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Jon Paul
07-16-2009, 01:04 PM
Hello, everyone!

Here is an interesting six-part article on Catholic women and head-coverings.

Introduction

The veil has been a topic of increasing interest in the last few years, largely because of the recent fascination with Islam. Particularly regarding the recent law in France forbidding the display of any religious symbol in public schools, many have asked what the religious significance of the veil is. Is it simply a social custom, or is it actually required by the Islamic religion? Is a simple covering on the head sufficient, or does the law require the full-headed burkhas of Afghanistan? These questions have been of some mild interest of late, and always in reference to Islam.

But is there a Catholic tradition of veils, and if so, what does it entail? Clearly it has been out of practice for a long time, if it ever did exist. What is the tradition? What does it require? Does it bind under any penalty? These questions and many others are what this essay intends to answer. For it is clear that there is a Catholic tradition of the veil; it persisted even until the 1960s, in the form of the custom of women wearing head coverings in churches, and even exists to this day in many Eastern-rite Catholic communities.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/rel..._1_Goodman.htm
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