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Clover
05-26-2009, 03:29 AM
I know in the bible, it calls the relationship between two men a abomination, is it the same in the Qu'ran? Can I get a scripture from the Qu'ran, saying its stance on it?

btw: I am not gay, I just want to know, a lot of my friends are gay or have been, and its a fascination I have on how religion's percieve it.
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Zico
05-26-2009, 08:53 AM
Question and Answer Details



Name of Questioner: Ali - Canada


Title: How Islam Views Homosexuality


Question: As-Salamu `alaykum! As homosexuality has become a phenomenon widespread in the world, not only in the West, we’d like to know what Islam says on this issue. Jazakumullah Khayran!


Date: 17/May/2004


Name of Counsellor: IOL Shari`ah Researchers


Topic: Sexual perversity



Answer:

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, thanks for your serious question, which reflects your deep belief in the fact that Islam has answers for every problem facing mankind. Our utmost wish is just for all of us to adhere to the teachings of this great religion which came to save mankind from the peril of succumbing to the material life, to rescue them from darkness of following whims and self inclinations to the light of guidance and eternal prosperity.

“An increasing number of people are becoming homosexuals either gays or lesbians in different parts of the world. The former refers to the perverted sexual relationship between man and man while the latter is the title for women practicing sex with women. This is, however, not a new phenomenon; what is new is the attempt of those people who have been considered all the time as outcasts and perverts, to assert their identity and force the rest of the people to recognize and accept them and their relationships as natural ones.

As this is becoming an increasingly dangerous issue, it is indeed important to clarify the attitude of Islam towards homosexuality.

In both the Qur’an and the Bible, we are told that the first people who started this habit on a national scale were the people of Lot in the old city of Sodom which used to occupy the area where the Dead Sea now exists. (See Genesis 19). Let us concentrate on what the Glorious Qur’an says about these people:

In surat ash-Sh`ara', we read: 'The people of Lot rejected the messengers. Their brother Lot said to them: 'Will you not fear God? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. so fear God and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it. My reward is only from the Lord the of worlds. Of all the creatures of the world will you approach males, and leave those whom God has created for you as mates? Nay. You are people transgressing all limits.' They said: 'If you desist not O Lot, you will surely be cast out!'. He said: 'I do detest your doings. O my Lord! Deliver me and my family from such things as they do.' So we delivered him and his family, all except an old woman who lingered behind. The rest we destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower; and evil was the shower on those who were admonished.' (Ash-Sh`ara': 160-173)

The Qur’an also says: 'And Lot who said to his people: 'Do you do what is indecent though you see its iniquity? Would you really approach men in your lusts rather than women? You are a people grossly ignorant.' His people gave no answer but this: 'Drive out the followers of Lot from our city. They are indeed men who want to be clean and pure.' But we saved him and his family except his wife: We destined her to be of those who lagged behind. And We raked down on them a shower: and evil was the shower on those who were admonished.' (An-Naml: 54-58)

Then in surat Hud, we read: 'When our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved on their account and felt himself powerless to protect them. He said: 'This is a distressful day.' His people came rushing towards him and they had been long in the habit of practicing abominations. He said: 'O my people! Here are my daughters: they are purer for you (if you marry). Now fear God and cover me not with disgrace about my guests! Is there not among you a single tight-minded man?' They, however said: 'You know very well we have no need of your daughters. Indeed you know quite well what we want'. He said: 'Would that I had power to suppress you or that I could betake myself to some powerful support'. (The angels) said: 'O Lot! We are messengers from your Lord! By no means shall they reach you. Now travel with your family while yet a part of the night remains, and let not any of you look back; but your wife, to her will happen what will befall them. Morning is their appointed time. Is not the morning near'. When Our decree issued we turned the cities upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread layer on layer, marked from your Lord. Nor are they ever far from those who do wrong." (Hud 11: 77-83)

Let us see now how the Bible depicts this incident. In Genesis 18, Abraham intercedes for Sodom and the Lord accepts his intercession. Then God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah as in Genesis 19. From these texts we notice that both scriptures (the Qur’an and the Bible) mention that Lot, the Prophet and Messenger of God, advised his people to stop this habit and to return to the natural relationship with their wives. Instead they threatened to expel him and those who followed his advice.

According to the Qur'an, Prophet Lot neither despaired nor gave up. He continued to warn his people against this crime of theirs. He faced a lot of hardships. They began to comment sarcastically that he tried and his followers to be pure. Even his wife was inclined towards them. When these people turned deaf ears to Prophet Lot's call, both sides were put to the test. Almighty Allah sent down a group of angels in form of attractive young men. These angels first entered unto Lot as guests.

As soon as his wife saw them, she immediately told her people about them. They rushed to practice their abominations against the guests. Lot reminded his people once again to refrain from this and not make a scandal for him and his guests. As a matter of fact, until this point of time Lot took the guests for ordinary human beings. To his surprise and relief they told him that they were the Messengers of God and that no harm will be caused to him. He even defended his guests physically; but when every attempt to stop them completely failed, Allah sent His punishment from Heaven. The city was turned upside down and brimstone rain was sent against them so that they all perished along with Lot's wife, their collaborator.

The Glorious Qur’an makes the following comment after this tragedy took place. It says: 'Such a punishment is not far from the unjust ones.' (Yunus: 83), which means that the same fate will happen to those who commit this injustice.

We are also told in the Qur’an that Lot's people used to practice this same sex relationship in public. They saw no harm in looking at each other while doing this. They claimed that it is beyond the capacity or human beings to be pure or clean in this area.

Part of the Qur’anic perspective of the universe is that Allah Almighty controls everything in this world. Being the Creator of life and death, He is also the Sovereign and the legislator. He sends messengers to different peoples from among themselves who are role models as well as conveyers of His message to them. If they listen and obey, this is for their own good in this world and the next. Whatever Allah permits is everything that is good, pure and healthy; and whatever He prohibits us to do, it is also for our own sake. This is how the Ever-Glorious Qur’an looks at this issue of homosexuality. It is against human nature; it is harmful to man and it betrays one basic goal of sex, namely: procreation within the limits of marriage only. That is why it is prohibited to practice homosexuality.

It is really sad to remark here that while the Bible condemns homosexuality, it ascribes to Lot, the Prophet of Allah and His Messenger, that he was given wine by his two daughters and that he committed incest with each of them in the cave to which they resorted. This, the Bible says, took place on two consecutive nights! (See Genesis 19). How can this be said about Allah’s Prophets and their daughters? This is not, however, strange for those who are familiar with the present version or rather versions of the Bible. David, the well-known Prophet and King of Israel, is accused of committing adultery with the wife of Uriah, a military commander of his. Several other crimes are also attributed to sons and daughters of Allah’s Prophets.

In the Qur’an, however, we find the image of all Prophets of Allah to be the best images of obedient slaves of the Almighty. In sura Al-Anbiyaa verse 73 and after, we have the following description of Lot as well as other Prophets: 'And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our command; We inspired them to do good deeds, establish regular prayers, and to give alms. They constantly worshipped Us.'

Not only this but the Qur’an specifically describes Lot as follows: 'And to Lot, too, We gave wisdom and knowledge; We saved him from the town which practiced abominations. Truly they were a people given to evil, a rebellious people. And We admitted him to Our mercy; for he was one of the righteous.' (Al-Anbiya':74-75)

Two more points deserve our attention. One is that Islam does not consider sex as a sinful deed. It does not look down on this human instinct. On the contrary, it considers it to be rewarding by Allah provided that it is practiced within the limits of marriage. On this the Prophet of Islam says: 'He who gets married has acquired one half of his faith, so let him fear Allah in the other half.'

The second point is that the present Bible reports a number of sexual crimes attributed falsely to Prophets, Messengers of Allah and their children. Not only this but crimes of incest are said to be committed by Prophets with their own daughters as we mentioned earlier. On the other hand, there are passages of pornography in the Bible that escaped the attention of religious censors. Take the song of songs by Solomon. You cannot imagine these passages to be part of a Divine scripture. It is time that the Bible itself be purified from all these falsehoods before purifying the actual lives of the people.”

Excerpted, with slight modifications from: www.al------------

Almighty Allah knows best.

Source
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S_87
05-26-2009, 10:30 AM
Hello

Yes it is mentioned in several places and here are some verses:

And (remember) Lut (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinn)?
"Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)."
And the answer of his people was only that they said: "Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!"
Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).
And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists and sinners).
7:80-84

And when Our messengers came to Lut (Lot), he was grieved on account of them and felt himself straitened for them (lest the town people should approach them to commit sodomy with them). He said: "This is a distressful day."
And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy), he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the women of the nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully). So fear Allah and degrace me not with regard to my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?"
They said: "Surely you know that we have neither any desire nor need of your daughters, and indeed you know well what we want!"
He said: "Would that I had strength (men) to overpower you, or that I could betake myself to some powerful support (to resist you)."
They (messengers) said: "O Lut (Lot)! Verily, we are the messengers from your Lord! They shall not reach you! So travel with your family in a part of the night, and let not any of you look back; but your wife (will remain behind), verily, the punishment which will afflict them, will afflict her. Indeed, morning is their appointed time. Is not the morning near?"
So when Our Commandment came, We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down, and rained on them stones of baked clay, in a well-arranged manner one after another;
11:77-82

And the inhabitants of the city came rejoicing (at the news of the young men's arrival).
[Lut (Lot)] said: "Verily! these are my guests, so shame me not.
"And fear Allah and disgrace me not."
They (people of the city) said: "Did we not forbid you from entertaining (or protecting) any of the 'Alamin (people, foreigners and strangers from us)?"
[Lut (Lot)] said: "These (the girls of the nation) are my daughters (to marry lawfully), if you must act (so)."
Verily, by your life (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم), in their wild intoxication, they were wandering blindly.
15:67-72
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love_quran
05-26-2009, 03:28 PM
This is a great question by the way.

Make it a yes or no question:

1. Is Homosexuality a sin?
2. " "...to the point of it depriving one from Gardens of Paradise?
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- Qatada -
05-26-2009, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by love_quran
This is a great question by the way.

Make it a yes or no question:

1. Is Homosexuality a sin?
Yes.

2. " "...to the point of it depriving one from Gardens of Paradise?

All Muslim sinners are threatened with the punishment of hell unless they repent and mend their ways for the better, however - no true believer is destined to hell forever, but will in the end enter Paradise by God's Mercy.
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- Qatada -
05-26-2009, 09:55 PM
http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com - its a site by Muslims who know its a sin but need help. You might find it useful.
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Wyatt
05-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Is (voluntary) reproductive abstention a sin, then? Maybe, if one just does not want children. If not, what is the difference between that and having sex with the same gender?
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GreyKode
05-27-2009, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Podarok
Is (voluntary) reproductive abstention a sin, then? Maybe, if one just does not want children. If not, what is the difference between that and having sex with the same gender?
:blind: How do the 2 compare?
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- Qatada -
05-27-2009, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Podarok
Is (voluntary) reproductive abstention a sin, then? Maybe, if one just does not want children. If not, what is the difference between that and having sex with the same gender?

Those who claim that homosexuality is right, their reasoning is that these people should have the freedom to have a relationship which they desire without anyone restricting their rights.

They also believe that the homosexual gene can be inherited [although i wonder how this is if a homosexual couple cannot have children together.] Although there is some research to support this, there is also research to prove that homosexuality is not genetic and effected by society only.




Incest Moral?


Now, if people use that as the basis of argument - then they need to question whether it is okay for a brother and sister to commit incest? If they love each other? Why is it still illegal in many parts of the US whereas homosexuality isn't?

If they still agree with that, then they should know that this is immoral, not just because they are having sex with their own family members, but because their children are likely to be affected a great deal by this, since having sex within closer relatives poses more of a threat of genetic diseases.




Sex with Parents Moral?


If the person still believes that they should be allowed to do that, then is it also moral to have sex with ones mother or father? If they both are mature and fit for it, willing to do it?

If someone says that this is moral, then who will their children be? Will they be sons/daughters? What will their child be to them? It can't be a son/daughter, nor can it be a brother/sister - so who is this child to them?


Is this really moral?



Sex with Animals Moral?


How about having sex with an animal, is this moral? Some may argue that animals cannot consent for sex, but what if an animal makes the first move and approaches the person sexually, is it moral then to have sex with that animal?



Eating your Partner?


If the person is still going to play along and think that this is moral, is it moral to have sex with ones partner, and after having intercourse with them - you kill them and then eat them. Is this moral, if both parties had consented to it?

Since people like comparing themselves to animals so much (by arguing that some animals do homosexual acts 'so humans can do it to'), i'd love to hear a response to this - especially the last one (since fishing spiders * eat their mates after mating.)

VORACIOUS female spiders just cannot help trying to eat suitors before sex. Why? It's their aggressive personalities.

Females of several spider and mantis species dine on their partners, but only after acquiring the sperm necessary to fertilise their eggs. By providing his mate with a good meal, the male increases his own reproductive success. But that doesn't explain the behaviour of females that opt for dinner instead of sex, as fishing spiders (Dolomedes triton) often do. "Eating your mate during or after copulating, that's no big deal. Eating your mate beforehand, that's weird," says Chadwick Johnson at the University of Toronto, Canada.

*http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...efore-sex.html

more reading;
http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/a...sexuality-592/
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Beardo
05-28-2009, 03:35 PM
Personally, I don't think people are born with it, as most do believe. Some say it's due to a lack of parental guidance. Others believe its a choice made later on in life. Below is something that MIGHT help.

------


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

It is only natural for the uneducated youth, growing up in our era to be confused regarding certain matters of the Shar’iah. There is a tremendous amount of propaganda from the anti-Muslim sector to distort the original pristine teachings of Shar'iah into a new reformed, liberal and watered down version of the Shar’iah. There is a push for the reformation and renaissance of Islam. The liberal minded atheists who have severed their ties to any form of organized religion wish to sever the ties of the Muslims from their religion. As such, they present objections against the Shar’iah claiming that the Shar’iah is barbaric, backwards and extreme. They have themselves distorted their own religion and wish to do the same with Islam. The reality of the matter is that Allah Ta’ala has promised to preserve His Deen and the Deen of Islam will remain unchanged and preserved until the Day of Judgment.

The very first thing that one should be cognizant of is that religion as a whole, is dependent upon revelation from Allah to His beloved Prophet, Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . The Shar’iah is not based upon the intelligence, logic or desires of any individual. The Shar’iah was codified approximately 1400 years ago and any attempt to reform or depart from it is clear misguidance. If the Shar'iah deems an act permissible, such an act can never be considered impermissible no matter how many people lobby to prohibit it. Similarly, if another act is deemed sinful and impermissible, it will never be considered to the contrary despite the efforts of the reformers to reinterpret it.

In reference to your statement regarding non-Muslims asking you about such beliefs and practices, you should understand that Muslims never need to justify their beliefs to disbelievers. As Muslims, we have one set of tenets and laws and the disbelievers have another set of beliefs and laws. We merely believe and submit to the revelation sent by Allah Ta’ala to his beloved Messenger. It is obvious that the disbelievers dislike and disagree with our faith and beliefs. Allah Ta’ala mentions regarding the Christians and Jews,

وَلَنْ تَرْضَى عَنْكَ الْيَهُودُ وَلَا النَّصَارَى حَتَّى تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَهُمْ

“They will never ever be satisfied and happy with you until you do not follow their creed.” (2:120)

Today their objection against Islam is regarding the permissibility of execution of gays and tomorrow they will object against the execution of adulterers. Then their objections will continue and they will object against the impermissibility of gay marriages and so on. Should their disapproval of our creed lead us to feelings of inferiority? Should we discard and change our religion to please the disbelievers?

As you have mentioned, Islam is undeniably a religion of peace yet it is also a religion of submission. As fallible humans who are prone to hundreds of mistakes, we are not fit to legislate any laws of the Shar’iah based upon our intelligence and neither is it our right as servants to legislate our own laws. As obedient slaves to our beloved Creator and Cherisher, we merely listen and obey. Allah Ta’ala in His infinite knowledge and wisdom knows why He legislates certain laws. It is contrary to the servitude, subjugation and trust of a Muslim to question the wisdom or logic of Allah Ta’ala laws. Furthermore, being a religion of peace does not mean being a religion that tolerates iniquity and wickedness. If being a religion of peace means overlooking evils and vice for the ease and comfort of the perpetrator, of what benefit would the laws of religion serve? Even the most modern and liberal of countries have laws that govern the iniquity and disobedience of its citizens.

Examples of Federal capital statutes (death sentences) for non-murder crimes:

* Espionage (18 U.S.C. 794)
* Treason. (18 U.S.C. 2381)
* Trafficking in large quantities of drugs (18 U.S.C. 3591(b))
* Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror,or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, regardless of whether such killing actually occurs. (18 U.S.C. 3591(b)(2))

One simple example of this is the act of treason. A person can be executed for leaking domestic information to another country. Why is this act not considered extreme and fanatical? Why is the country that perpetrates such acts not considered radical? Shouldn’t these countries also be peaceful, forgiving and understanding? The reality of the matter is that rules and regulations are legislated to maintain law and order in society.

Similarly, the law regarding the execution of gays has been enacted to maintain law, order and a moral society.

Having mentioned thus, it should be noted that Allah Ta’ala has not explicitly mentioned that gays should be killed. There is no Ayah in the Holy Quran to substantiate this claim.

There is no clear-cut substantiation or proof which necessitates the indiscriminate killing of gays. However there are Ahadith (Prophetic narrations) of Rasulullah صلى الله عليه و سلم that do indicate to the permissibility of executing gays caught in the act of perpetrating this heinous sin.

من وجدتموه يعمل عمل قوم لوط فاقتلوا الفاعل والمفعول به (ابو داود)

This establishes that the Shar'iah does not necessitate absolute execution in every single case. The Jurists mention that such Ahadith merely indicate to the permissibility of execution in the event that the leader or government of a certain place deem it to be the best course of action for that particular society. The matter is to the hands of the leader and government officials. If they deem it politically beneficial, they are permitted to execute the homosexual caught perpetrating the act. Similarly, if they deem it better to counsel and advise the perpetrator to repent from the sin or to apply another form of punishment, they are permitted to take that course of action as well.

This seems to be a similar stance taken by various state governments in the . Recently, states like Texas, Oklahoma and South Carolina have enacted laws permitting the execution of repeat sexual offenders who forcefully sodomize minors. The state of Montana is even more strict and do not stipulate an age limit.

The question one has to ask is why is the execution of sodomites in Islam considered barbaric and extreme, yet when the statutes permitting the same execution in western countries not considered radical and barbaric. The only real difference between the two cases seems to be between forced and consensual sodomy. A secular government only safeguards its public from physical dangers and has divorced itself from the moral issues of its subjects: therefore; they only permit the execution of homosexuals for cases of forced sodomy. A religious Muslim government aims to safeguard its public from physical as well as moral and spiritual danger; therefore, such a government will permit the execution of homosexuals for both forced and consensual sodomy.

Nevertheless, no matter what explanation a Muslim presents to the disbelievers, they will never be content with it and continue taunting the Muslims regarding their faith. As mentioned previously, Allah Ta’ala states in the Holy Quran, “They will never ever be satisfied and happy with you until you do not follow their creed.” Therefore, we need not worry about their opinions regarding our faith. We should rather strive to please Allah and worry less about pleasing the disbelievers.

____

1. Jeffrey Kirchmeier, "Casting a Wider Net: Another Decade of Legislative Expansion of the Death Penalty in the ," 34 Pepperdine Law Review 1, 16-17 and n.86 (2006).

STATE OF LOUISIANA v. PATRICK KENNEDY (No. 05-KA-1981, May 22, 2007), at 37-56 (reviewing laws

allowing the death penalty for crimes that do not involve murder).

Marion Quirk, Memo: Death Penalty - Sexual Crimes (June 13, 2006) (on file with DPIC).

And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Ml. Yusuf bin Yaqub,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah
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