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taslim
06-03-2009, 07:54 AM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Allah recommends you concerning your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females. Then if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one then the half.

The above text is a part of Surah Nisaa (verse 11) that speaks about children's share of inheritance.
At first it says" to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females" and then as a result of this clause, Allah mentions that:" Then if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one then the half".
With attention to the apparent meaning of the verse, it seems that the statement is incomplete and there are two problems here:

1) Although the verse under discussion is related to determination of children's share of inheritance but apparently it only determines the share of daughters and it's silent about the share of the sons.

Therefore, in the Islamic law of inheritance for determining the share of sons, after subtracting the shares of other heirs, the residue is given to them equally or in ratio 2:1 when the sons and daughters are together.

2) In the verse under discussion the share of one daughter and more than two daughters is clear but the verse is silent about the share of two daughters.

But concerning the first problem, I don't see any problem here at all. In fact, the problem is due to our understanding of the verse's text. Surely the lord by the clause; "the male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" says to us the share of the sons but we have not understood it. The answer is so simple that you won't believe it.
In fact, the clause; "the male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" is a simple first-degree equation and the share of the sons is simply calculated by this equation:

(Share of) 1son = (Share of) 2daughter

3daughters = more than two daughters = 2/3
2daughtesr + 1daughter =2/3
1son + 1daughter =2/3

4daughters = more than two daughters = 2/3
2daughters + 2daughters =2/3
2sons or 1son + 2daughter =2/3

Therefore, we saw that how the share of sons is calculated by the above equation. But the root of the problem is unknown or not clearly understood yet.
In the other hand, the statement about the share of one daughter and more than two daughters is clear but the share of two daughters or one son is unclear and we don’t know the answer of the equation.
Why the two daughters' share has not been clearly stated?
I think the silence of the lord about the share of two daughters is intentional and there is a mystery here that has to be unraveled.
There are some explanations given for the share of two daughters which are quite unworthy of divine words. For example:
someone has written that the words; if they are more than two females, means, two females or more; thus this sentence contains the description of the share of two females as well as of more than two. Another writer has said that the share of two daughters is known by analogy from the law concerning two sisters where it apportions two-thirds to them.
Someone else has written:" Let us suppose there is a male and a female heir; according to this verse, the female shall have a third of the estate and the male, the two-thirds - as it is the share of the two females. In other words, two females shall have two-thirds of the inheritance. "
Then how much will be the share of two daughters when there are two females and a male heir?!
What is the priority of that one to this one?
But there is still another explanation about the share of two daughters: a person by the name of "neezam" in his book, al- nakt, has related from Ibn Abbas that the share of two daughters must to be the average of one daughter and tries daughters. However the people that have referred to it aren’t so much but I think it has to be the best answer although I don’t know how we can prove this answer is purpose of God? Is there any way?

aamirsaab
06-03-2009, 08:59 AM
:sl:
I'll get back to you on this one.

Sampharo
06-03-2009, 09:02 AM
Taslim, you are confused about the math as well as the methodology, especially in this part:

"(Share of) 1son = (Share of) 2daughter

3daughters = more than two daughters = 2/3
2daughtesr + 1daughter =2/3
1son + 1daughter =2/3"

Rules of son and daughter differences are beyond just one is to two parts. As far as I know, if there is a son then relatives such as brothers and aunts and cousins of the deceased don't inherit, they do though if there are no sons and only daughter(s). I won't answer though precisely or go further because inheritance laws and calculations are intertwined through several verses and hadiths and it requires a specialized person, and I haven't gone into this in my studies so I don't know. I suggest you ask someone who is experienced or a fatwa website because this is a complex matter.

I do however have a concern, what exactly do you mean by "A big mistake"?

GreyKode
06-03-2009, 09:30 AM
1) Although the verse under discussion is related to determination of children's share of inheritance but apparently it only determines the share of daughters and it's silent about the share of the sons.
Superficial knowledge can only come from a fraud.

"Then if there be women more than two..." means that if they are exclusively women i.e. no sons.
sources : Tafsir Al Jalalayn.

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convert
06-03-2009, 10:14 AM
taslim is a e-crusader spouting same tired nonsense. dont fall for this kafir.

taslim
06-03-2009, 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by convert
taslim is a e-crusader spouting same tired nonsense. dont fall for this kafir.
dear brother

allah knoweth , you know not

taslim
06-03-2009, 11:39 AM
I do however have a concern, what exactly do you mean by "A big mistake"?
:sl:
I mean there are many mistakes in the Islamic law of inheritance that has been written by the human. I believe the quran holy book and there isn’t any mistake in it.

Muslim Woman
06-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by taslim
...The above text is a part of Surah Nisaa (verse 11) that speaks about children's share of inheritance.

The Reason Behind Revealing Ayah 4:11

......The wife of Sa`d bin Ar-Rabi` came to Allah's Messenger and said to him,

`O Allah's Messenger! These are the two daughters of Sa`d bin Ar-Rabi`, who was killed as a martyr at Uhud. Their uncle took their money and did not leave anything for them. They will not be married unless they have money.' The Messenger said, `Allah will decide on this matter.'

The Ayah about the inheritance was later revealed and the Messenger of Allah sent word to their uncle commanding him,

«أَعْطِ ابْنَتَيْ سَعْدٍ الثُّلُثَيْنِ، وَأُمَّهُمَا الثُّمُنَ، وَمَا بقِيَ فَهُوَ لَك»

(Give two-thirds (of Sa`d's money) to Sa`d's two daughters and one eighth for their mother, and whatever is left is yours.)''

for details , pl. visit

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=10535

aamirsaab
06-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Edit: See my next post.

Whatsthepoint
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Male gets 2/3 (that is, if male gets twice that of female)
Female gets 1/3

In this example we have:
2 females.
1 male.

So we first split the property into 6 portions.

The 2 female heirs get 1 portion each (a total of 2 portions = a third of 6 [2/6 -->1/3])
The male heir gets 4 portions (4 portions = two thirds of 6 [4/6 -->2/3])

Khalas!
Shouldn't it be male 3, females 1,5 each?

Sampharo
06-03-2009, 01:01 PM
Are you sure you shouldn't split four portions and give two to the male and one to each female? I am not versed in inheritence law like I mentioned, but mathematically it seems the calculation gave the male 4 times as the female not two.

aamirsaab
06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Shouldn't it be male 3, females 1,5 each?
OOOOPs. Yeah just double checked, WTP and Sampharo are correct.

In the example, if you do split the total into 6 portions:
Females would get 1.5 portions each (a third each)
Male would get 3 portions. (Two times the share of ONE female)

Or you could split into 4 portions (as sampharo said)
females get 1 each
male gets 2

Either way would be fine (both should give the same results at the end of the day)

I should mention that the above methods are only true for FIRST sons and daughters (i.e. not step sons/daughters etc ---> that uses a different calculation. This is just extra info for those curious)

taslim
06-03-2009, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Edit: See my next post.
But my question was not an interrogative question, and I am not waiting for an answer.

aamirsaab
06-03-2009, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by taslim
But my question was not an interrogative question, and I am not waiting for an answer.

Ok, so could you perhaps clarify (for me) exactly what the point of this thread was then?

Sampharo
06-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by taslim
But my question was not an interrogative question, and I am not waiting for an answer.
Then what is your question? Inheritance law is complex and even though I have been studying Islamic sciences for years, I don't know much in it because it is deep and I usually refer to expert colleagues of mine or teachers about specific situations.

I hope you don't think you spotted a mistake in the methodology of inheritance Shariah law right there from the surface because you would not be able to do so based on superficial personal interpretation of one Quran verse. Did you?

Just wondering...

convert
06-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by Sampharo
Then what is your question? Inheritance law is complex and even though I have been studying Islamic sciences for years, I don't know much in it because it is deep and I usually refer to expert colleagues of mine or teachers about specific situations.

I hope you don't think you spotted a mistake in the methodology of inheritance Shariah law right there from the surface because you would not be able to do so based on superficial personal interpretation of one Quran verse. Did you?

Just wondering...
evangelists are known to do such a thing

GreyKode
06-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by convert
evangelists are known to do such a thing
I believe my post has answered his confusion, what's the big deal?
The verse "Wa enn konna nesa'an fawqa ethnatayn..." refers to the situation when there are no male children, to the end of the ayah is all about the situation when its only females.

Therefore the rule is

male x
female 0.5x

such that num_of_male*x + num_of_female *0.5x = Total.

Now if there are no males it gets complicated, and that is what the verse talks about.

taslim
06-03-2009, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Ok, so could you perhaps clarify (for me) exactly what the point of this thread was then?
I told apparently it seems that verse only determines the share of daughters and it's silent about the share of the sons. Therefore, in the Islamic law of inheritance for determining the share of sons, after subtracting the shares of other heirs, the residue is given to them equally or in ratio 2:1 when the sons and daughters are together.
But the lord has determined the share of the sons as clear as other heirs but we have not understood it.
When the lord says: "to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females" we can calculate the share of sons simply, isn’t it?

(Share of) 1son = (Share of) 2daughters

3daughters = more than two daughters = 2/3
2daughtesrs + 1daughter =2/3
1son + 1daughter =2/3

4daughters = more than two daughters = 2/3
2daughters + 2daughters =2/3
2sons or 1son + 2daughter =2/3
In the other hand
Y=2x
3x=2/3 then 2x + x = 2/3 then y + x=2/3
where y is son and x is daughter

Caller الداعي
06-03-2009, 02:19 PM
:sl:

As a student of islamic shariah i have studied the knowldge of islamic inheritance and yes as someone mentioned it is a complex subject which cannot be understood just like that but requires taking out time and studying under a qualified teacher just as the noble sahabah studied inheritance from the holy prophet (peace be upon him).
We must remember also the verse:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي أَنْ يَضْرِبَ مَثَلًا مَا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلًا يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيرًا وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيرًا وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلَّا الْفَاسِقِينَ (26)

002.026
YUSUFALI: Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-
now going back to the question, unfortunately i will not be able to explain all the rules of inheritance however i will try to clear up some misunderstandings inshallah.

The daughter of the deceased has 3 possiblities:

1. she is the sole inheritor in this case she will recieve half of the deceaseds wealth.

وَإِنْ كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُif only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance;

2. there r 2 or more daughters only in this case they will both share 2/3 of the wealth.

فَإِنْ كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ
if only one, her share is a half.

3.there is a son with the daughter (i.e. 1 or more daughters)

يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّهُ فِي أَوْلَادِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنْثَيَيْنِ 004.011
YUSUFALI: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:

The cases for the daughters doenst go out of these three.
hope that helps

Sampharo
06-03-2009, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by caller
:sl:

As a student of islamic shariah i have studied the knowldge of islamic inheritance and yes as someone mentioned it is a complex subject which cannot be understood just like that but requires taking out time and studying under a qualified teacher just as the noble sahabah studied inheritance from the holy prophet (peace be upon him).
Thank you for that. Did you understand however from Taslim's question WHAT is it that he's actually querying about and considered it "A Big Mistake"?

Also Can you also please confirm whether outside relatives inherit if there is a son? I mean when a rich man has a daughter, his brothers and sisters have a share, but if he has a son, only the immediate wife and son inherit, right?

Wa Baraka Allahu feek ya akhy

Muslim Woman
06-03-2009, 04:24 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by taslim
.. I am not waiting for an answer.

doorster
06-03-2009, 04:26 PM
in UK, almost always the eldest or the most favourite took/takes the lot upon the death of parents

in Pakistan girls almost always get 0 amount (that is nil/nada/zero)

Originally Posted by Tafheem ul Quran by Sayyid Maududi
يُوصِيكُمُ اللّهُ فِي أَوْلاَدِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الأُنثَيَيْنِ فَإِن كُنَّ نِسَاء فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ وَلأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِن كَا نَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ فَإِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلَدٌ وَوَرِثَهُ أَبَوَاهُ فَلأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُ إِخْوَةٌ فَلأُمِّهِ السُّدُسُ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِي بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ آبَآؤُكُمْ وَأَبناؤُكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ لَكُمْ نَفْعاً ف َرِيضَةً مِّنَ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيما حَكِيمًا﴿4:11﴾
(4:11) Allah thus commands you concerning your children: the share of the male is like that of two females. *15 If (the heirs of the deceased are) more than two daughters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance; *16 and if there is only one daughter, then she shall have half the inheritance. If the deceased has any offspring, each of his parents shall have a sixth of the inheritance; *17 and if the deceased has no child and his parents alone inherit him, then one-third shall go to his mother; *18 and if the deceased has brothers and sisters, then one-sixth shall go to his mother. *19 All these shares are to be given after payment of the bequest he might have made or any debts outstanding against him. *20 You do not know which of them, your parents or your children, are more beneficial to you. But these portions have been determined by Allah, for He indeed knows all, is cognizant of all beneficent considerations. *21

*15. This is the first general rule in connection with inheritance, viz., that the share of the male should be double that of the female. Since Islamic law imposes greater financial obligations on men in respect of family life and relieves women of a number of such obligations, justice demands that a woman's share in inheritance should be less than that of a man.

*16. The same applies in the case where there are two daughters. If the deceased leaves only daughters, and if there are two or more daughters then they will receive two-thirds of the inheritance and the remaining one-third will go to the other heirs. But if the deceased has only one son there is a consensus among jurists that in the absence of other heirs he is entitled to all the property and if the deceased has other heirs, he is entitled to the property left after their shares have been distributed.

*17. If the deceased leaves issue each of his parents will receive one-sixth of the inheritance irrespective of whether the issue consists either only of daughters, only of sons, of both sons and daughters, of just one son or just one daughter. The remaining two-thirds will be distributed among the rest of the heirs.

*18. If there are no other heirs than the parents, the remaining two-thirds will go to the share of the father; otherwise the two-thirds will be distributed between the father and other heirs.

*19. In the case where the deceased also has brothers and sisters the share of the mother will be one-sixth rather than one-third. In this case the sixth that was deducted from the share of the mother will be added to that of the father, for in this circumstance the father's obligations are heavier. It should be noted that if the parents of the deceased are alive, the brothers and sisters will not be entitled to any share in the inheritance.

*20. The mention of bequest precedes the mention of debt, for although not everyone need be encumbered with debt it is necessary that everyone should make a bequest. (However, other Mufassirun (exegetes) regard making a bequest as a discretionary act - Ed.) As for legalities, there is consensus among Muslims that the payment of debts takes precedence over the payment of bequests, i.e. if the deceased owes a debt and also leaves a bequest, the debt will first be paid out of the inheritance, and only then will his bequest be fulfilled.

We have already stated in connection with bequest (see Towards Understanding the Qur'an, vol. I, Surah 2, n. 182) that a man has the right to bequeath up to a maximum of one-third of his inheritance. The principle laid down in regard to bequest is that a man can allot a portion of his estate either to a relative who is not legally entitled to any prescribed share in the inheritance or to others whom he considers deserving of help, e.g. either an orphaned grandson or grand-daughter, the widow of a son in financial distress, any brother, sister, brother's wife, nephew, and other relatives who seem to be in need of support.

If there are no such relatives, bequests can be made either to other needy people or for charitable purposes. In short, the Law has fixed regulations for the distribution of two-thirds or more of one's inheritance, out of which the legal heirs are to receive their shares according to the regulations laid down by the Law.

A maximum of one-third of the inheritance has been left to the discretion of the person concerned, who can dispose of it by means of bequest in light of his particular family circumstances. If anyone makes either an inequitable bequest or misuses his discretion so as to hurt the legitimate rights of others, it is permissible for the members of the family to rectify the situation either by mutual agreement or by requesting a judge to intervene. For further details see my booklet Yatim Pot6 ki Wirathat ka Mas'alah, Lahore, 1954.

*21. This is in response to those feeble-minded people who do not fully appreciate God's law of inheritance and try to fill, with the help of their limited intellect, what they see as gaps in God's Laws.

doorster
06-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Inheritance in Islam
*
By
Dr. `Abdul Hamid Siddiqui
Al-Azhar University

Inheritance is when living persons rightfully acquire dead persons’ property. It exists in some form wherever the institution of private property is recognized as the basis of the social and economic system. The actual forms of inheritance and the laws governing them, however, differ according to the ideals of different societies. The law of inheritance in Islam is based upon five main considerations:

1. To break up the concentration of wealth from the hands of few individuals and to spread it out in society.
2. To respect right of individual ownership and property earned through honest means.
3. To drive into people’s consciousness the fact that they are not the absolute masters of the wealth they produce but they are only trustees and are not, therefore, authorized to pass this wealth on to others as they like.
4. To consolidate the family system, which is the social unit of an Islamic society.
5. To give incentive to work and encourage economic activity as sanctioned by Islam.
In the pre-Islamic world and even in modern societies, the laws of inheritance have so many evils inherent in them, which may be summed up in the following points:

• Women had been completely denied a share of inheritance; they were, rather, regarded as part of the property of the deceased and, therefore, their right to inherited property was out of question.
• In pre-Islamic Arabia, and other countries where there had been tribal societies, not only were women deprived of the right of inheritance but even weak and sick persons and minors (children) were given no share in the inheritance. The common principle of inheritance was that “he alone is entitled to inherit who wields the sword.”
• Then, in certain societies, there was in existence the law of primogeniture, which exists even today in some of the so-called civilized parts of the world and entitles only the eldest son to inherit the whole of the father's property or at least to get the lion's share.

Islam introduced so many reforms in the laws of inheritance and they can be succinctly summed up as follows.

• Islam defined and determined in clear-cut terms the share of each inheritor and it imposed limits on the right of the property owner to dispose of his property according to his whims and caprices.
• Islam made the female—who had been previously thought of as a chattel—the co-sharer with the male; thus, not only restoring her dignity, but safeguarding her social and economic rights.
• Islam laid the rules for the breakup of concentrated wealth in society and helped in its proper and equitable distribution amongst a large number of persons.
• Islam gave a death blow to the law of primogeniture and provided a fair basis for the division of the deceased’s property.

The above are some of the distinguishing features of the Islamic law of inheritance. While laying down the rules for the distribution of the deceased’s estate, the first principle to be observed is that the property, both movable and immovable, can be distributed after meeting the following obligations:

• Funeral expenses
• Clearing of any debts incurred by the deceased
• Payment of bequests, if any, to the extent of one-third of the total assets. It should be remembered that the wife’s mahr (dowry), if it had not been paid, must be included in the debt. Moreover, it is not lawful to make a bequest in favor of a person who is entitled to a share in the inheritance.

In this way, the rights of all the parties concerned are preserved. The deceased receives due tribute and honor by giving priority to his funeral expenses; besides, the debtors’ rights will not be absolved by the passing away of the deceased; only then will the remaining property be distributed among the heirs fairly, without any interference and without preference of one party over another by the deceased.

Listen to Dr. Jamal Badawi on inheritance:

* The article is part of the author's introduction to the Chapter on inheritance, Translation of Sahih Muslim, here cited, with some modifications, from:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...m/011.smt.html

Caller الداعي
06-03-2009, 05:01 PM
:sl:
bro yes ur right if the son is present then the brothers and sisters of the deceased dont recieve a share.

it would be very beneficial if someone gave lessons on inheritence on youtube it is very easy when studied under a knowledgble teacher and the good thing is any body can study it i mean no previous qualifications required.

inshallah i will try to write a short summary of the subject and post it here.

Muslim Woman
06-04-2009, 01:00 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by doorster
in UK, almost always the eldest or the most favourite took/takes the lot upon the death of parents
Why is that ? Muslims don't make any will before death ?

in Pakistan girls almost always get 0 amount (that is nil/nada/zero)
Sadly in Bangladesh , we see the same. My friend's father died 15 years ago ; still 3 brothers did not give her & sisters ( total 4 ) any share in the property. Once they demanded , then brothers offered land outside the city :(

I want to know if any father gave equal share to daughter as son , is it ok for her to take or must she return the excess part to bro ?

Zafran
06-04-2009, 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by doorster
in UK, almost always the eldest or the most favourite took/takes the lot upon the death of parents

in Pakistan girls almost always get 0 amount (that is nil/nada/zero)
salaam

Yeah this is true

peace

taslim
06-04-2009, 08:01 AM
.. I am not waiting for an answer.
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl

This is my previous sentence:

But my question was not an interrogative question, and I am not waiting for an answer
As you see, the sentence is made of two parts, but you mentioned the second part and forgot the first. In fact the second says that I am not waiting for answer because the question isn’t an interrogative question.

Please pay attention to this quotation:

Someone else has written:" Let us suppose there is a male and a female heir; according to this verse, the female shall have a third of the estate and the male, the two-thirds - as it is the share of the two females. In other words, two females shall have two-thirds of the inheritance. "

In other way I only wanted to show the error of above argument because when there are two daughters and one son heirs then the property is divided to four parts and therefore the share of two daughters would be 1/2 instead 2/3.
Now which one is correct? 1/2 or 2/3?
What is the priority of 2/3 respect to 1/2?

Originally Posted by aamirsaab
OOOOPs.
I should mention that the above methods are only true for FIRST sons and daughters (i.e. not step sons/daughters etc ---> that uses a different calculation. This is just extra info for those curious)
Why do you say this? What is your argument?
Why don’t you say when a daughter gets the half then a son will get the all?
Because the ratio of 2:1 is only used for when the whole portion of children has been defined and it can't be used to defining this portion.
As you know the name of this topic is " The inheritance law: A big mistake"
Therefore when I say:

Surely the lord by the clause; "the male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" says to us the share of the sons but we have not understood it then

You are not right if argument to this law. You have to show me the mistake of my reason in another way.

aamirsaab
06-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by taslim
Why do you say this? What is your argument?
I was merely pointing out that there are different calculations in Islamic inheritence for other family members. It was just some extra info on inheritance.

Why don’t you say when a daughter gets the half then a son will get the all?
Because the ratio of 2:1 is only used for when the whole portion of children has been defined and it can't be used to defining this portion.
You don't understand how ratios work. If there are two or more child heirs, 2:1 ratio will always work.

You are not right if argument to this law. You have to show me the mistake of my reason in another way.
I cannot correct your mistake if I don't know what the heck you are saying, which is why I asked what the purpose of this thread was.

Someone else has written:" Let us suppose there is a male and a female heir; according to this verse, the female shall have a third of the estate and the male, the two-thirds - as it is the share of the two females. In other words, two females shall have two-thirds of the inheritance. "
The bolded bit is wrong; the guy who made that statement simply misunderstood (which ironically I did also in my second post on this thread).

GreyKode
06-04-2009, 08:47 AM
I told apparently it seems that verse only determines the share of daughters and it's silent about the share of the sons. Therefore, in the Islamic law of inheritance for determining the share of sons, after subtracting the shares of other heirs, the residue is given to them equally or in ratio 2:1 when the sons and daughters are together.
:enough!:
It IS SILENT because this refers to a situation when there ARE NO SONS.

taslim
06-04-2009, 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by GreyKode
:enough!:
It IS SILENT because this refers to a situation when there ARE NO SONS.
OK, therefore in a situation when there are sons the quran is not silence isn't it?
When the quran says" Allah recommends you concerning your children" it means:" Allah recommends you concerning your daughters"?!

GreyKode
06-04-2009, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by taslim
OK, therefore in a situation when there are sons the quran is not silence isn't it?
When the quran says" Allah recommends you concerning your children" it means:" Allah recommends you concerning your daughters"?!
NO
"Youseekum ALLAHu fe awladimkum lel thakari meslo hath al onthayayn"

This is the GENERAL RULE
Y=2x. (Y=male, X=female)

NOW SPECIAL CASE.

"..Fa en konna nesa'an......" is explained in AL Jalalayn as the situation when there are ONLY females.

taslim
06-04-2009, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by GreyKode
NO
"Youseekum ALLAHu fe awladimkum lel thakari meslo hath al onthayayn"

This is the GENERAL RULE
Y=2x. (Y=male, X=female)

NOW SPECIAL CASE.

"..Fa en konna nesa'an......" is explained in AL Jalalayn as the situation when there are ONLY females.

therefore in a situation when there are sons the quran is not silence isn't it?

taslim
06-04-2009, 10:54 AM
I claim that the quran has been defined the share of sons as clear as other heirs
This is my reason:

y = 2x
3x = 2/3(=the share of more than two daughters)
2x +x = y (=2x) + x = 2/3
4x = 2/3
2x + 2x = 2/3
y + y or y + 2x = 2/3

When we have y = 2x in the case of (3x = 2/3) where is the y?

GreyKode
06-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by taslim
I claim that the quran has been defined the share of sons as clear as other heirs
This is my reason:

y = 2x agreed
3x = 2/3(=the share of more than two daughters) agreed

Now this where I disagree with you, why are including males here, this is a case of No male children
2x +x = y (=2x) + x = 2/3
4x = 2/3
2x + 2x = 2/3
y + y or y + 2x = 2/3

When we have y = 2x in the case of (3x = 2/3) where is the y?
I hope now we are on the same page.

taslim
06-05-2009, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by GreyKode
Now this where I disagree with you, why are including males here, this is a case of No male children.
this is property of the equations.when you have an equation, then you can leave one of both ends and dissolve
the equation dy other side. and this is exactly the way that Allah has choosen and really is the best way.
At first allah says" to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females" and then he leaves the males
and defines the share of children by the females.
the clause that comes after this equation is the reason of this claim: as you can see, in the arabic text of quran the sentnce:
"Then if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one then the half"
is started with "fa" and this letter shows that the second sentence is connected the first sentenceis( that is the same equation) and also is a reasult of it
thats why the Lord hasn't mentioned to the males because it isn't require.

taslim
06-06-2009, 08:51 AM
1/8, 1/6, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3

The above numbers are the shares' numbers of the inheritance.
The two middle fractions play an important role as the other numbers are produced by them:

2(1/4, 1/3) = 1/2, 2/3
(1/4, 1/3)/2 = 1/8, 1/6

Thus it seems two mentioned fractions have to be the roots of the shares numbers and if it be true then the share of two daughters must be produced by them. I believe the share of two daughters is average of 1/2 and 2/3, namely 7/12 which also is the result of adding 1/3 to 1/4. Thus the average number may be the share number of two daughters but this reason is not enough and we need some more reasons, the reasons that certainly are available.

taslim
06-06-2009, 01:30 PM
There are lots of people who believe the verses of inheritance are full of mathematical mistakes. They say Author of Quran Doesn't Know Mathematics because there are cases when the total of the shares assigned to the heirs exceeds the patrimony. For example:
If a man dies leaving behind a wife (1/8), three daughters (2/3) and his two parents (1/6, 1/6).
When we add up these fractions they too are more than the total.
Wife1/4 = 3/12
Mother 1/3 = 4/12
Sisters 2/3 = 8/12
Total = 15/12
In the above examples, the shares apportioned to the heirs exceed the total of the inheritance.
There are yet cases when the shares of the inheritors do not sum to a whole 100% and there is a surplus left.
For example: a man who dies and leaves his wife and his parents.
Parents 1/3 = 4/12
Wife 1/4 = 3/12
Total = 7/12
Who will receive the balance 5/12 of the inheritance?
Unfortunately, there are some people who have wanted to solve the problem but they have made it more difficult.
Know who are right and who are wrong?
Is there any way to overcome this problem?

GreyKode
06-06-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by taslim
this is property of the equations.when you have an equation, then you can leave one of both ends and dissolve
the equation dy other side. and this is exactly the way that Allah has choosen and really is the best way.
At first allah says" to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females" and then he leaves the males
and defines the share of children by the females.
the clause that comes after this equation is the reason of this claim: as you can see, in the arabic text of quran the sentnce:
"Then if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one then the half"
is started with "fa" and this letter shows that the second sentence is connected the first sentenceis( that is the same equation) and also is a reasult of it
thats why the Lord hasn't mentioned to the males because it isn't require.
Why are you arguing?
A gave you a scholarly opinion with a reference.
What is your Islamic background, are you a scholar, a student at aL azhar, what exactly?

GreyKode
06-06-2009, 03:16 PM
Wallahi I told you , your knowledge is superficial,

If a man dies leaving behind a wife (1/8), three daughters (2/3) and his two parents (1/6, 1/6).
You are mixing the ruling for the case of no children with that of presence of children

1)Male(Y) and Female(X):

Y=2X. n_male*2*X + n_female*X = Total.

2)ONLY Females and no males

The previous (Y=2X) does not apply.

NOW!! Listen Carefully

The case when there are no children "Fa en lam yakon laho waladun wa warithahu abawah...." explains the case when
there are no children male or female.

So the case you mentioned never happens.

Muslim Woman
06-06-2009, 03:45 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by taslim
There are lots of people who believe the verses of inheritance are full of mathematical mistakes.
lol . If people make mistake while distributing property , they must put blame on their lack of knowledge.

They say Author of Quran Doesn't Know Mathematics because there are cases when the total of the shares assigned to the heirs exceeds the patrimony.
Author of the Quran is God Almighty. So , these people are more knowledgable than our Creator ? May Allah either guide these arrogant people or punish them , Ameen.

Dr. Zakir & other scholars explain these matters . Pl. read their answers.

Are u from Bangladesh ? Sadly , there was an atheist writer Aroj Ali Matubbor who wrote a book & clamied this false mathmetical error. . Looks like you read his book & inspired by this athiest.