looking

Alhamdulillah. A short but important question. In my experience Christians are open to the fact they maybe wrong, for example searching Islamic forums, my friends who are christian say they are open to possibility and look for the truth in our discussions. Speaking as a muslim I have no desire to try disprove my religion, and furthermore I have never met a muslim who thinks the truth might be outside of Islam. So why are Christians prepared to accept they could be on the wrong path and muslims know they are on the right path ?

TKTony said:

Alhamdulillah. A short but important question. In my experience Christians are open to the fact they maybe wrong, for example searching Islamic forums, my friends who are christian say they are open to possibility and look for the truth in our discussions. Speaking as a muslim I have no desire to try disprove my religion, and furthermore I have never met a muslim who thinks the truth might be outside of Islam. So why are Christians prepared to accept they could be on the wrong path and muslims know they are on the right path ?

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I would surmise that it comes down to evidence. The average Christian simply has faith; most do not know the Bible all that well (I used to be a Christian so I'm speaking from experience), and there aren't really any "proofs" to Christianity like there are in Islam.

Of course, there are some very knowledgeable Christians (such as some on this board) that can back up their beliefs with what they believe is evidence from scripture, or history, etc. But the average Christian, when confronted with those types of questions, probably can't give a solid reason outside of pure faith as to why they believe what they do. When you can't give a solid reason to why you believe something, you may start to have doubts, which could be cause for admitting that you may or may not have the truth.

In Islam, you have many pieces of evidence, from both miracles in the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the history of Islam. It also makes sense logically when you understand that Islam is a complete way of life; a set of instructions sent down by the Creator Himself which tell humans how best to live their lives.

So that said, once you find Islam, everything makes sense. There's nothing in Islam we're embarrassed about, nothing about our founding history that we tend gloss over and pretend didn't happen, and nothing about our Book that people can find fault in. Once you have this, why would you want to turn somewhere else, where every other religion has problems with at least one of these (if not all) criteria?

MaashAllah, good reply brother. I have been christian also and it is true that there is a lot of blind faith, although the sense of brotherhood wasreal, but gangs have this also. The truth for me is what you highlight plus duas are answered , sometimes duas i forget making are answered and that it truly awesome. peace

TKTony said:

MaashAllah, good reply brother. I have been christian also and it is true that there is a lot of blind faith, although the sense of brotherhood wasreal, but gangs have this also. The truth for me is what you highlight plus duas are answered , sometimes duas i forget making are answered and that it truly awesome. peace

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This is true, however we have to keep in mind that Allah answers even the prayers of a pagan. Alhamdulilah that you have found Islam.

rpwelton said:

This is true, however we have to keep in mind that Allah answers even the prayers of a pagan. Alhamdulilah that you have found Islam.

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really, I am not sure He does but Allah knows best

Hi Tony

I can only give you my personal perspective, and I am sure it doesn't speak for all Christians.

Those Muslims who are convinced that there is no truth outside of Islam, what gave them that conviction?
I can think of two options:
1. Either they have searched and studied the truth and found it to be Islam
2. Or they have never explored anywhere else or engaged with any other way of thinking/perceiving/believing.

Group 1 has indeed had to think 'outside the Islamic box' and engage with other religions or worldviews in order to come to their personal conclusion that Islam was true.

Group 2 really has no basis for their beliefs, other than having been taught one thing and not daring to look beyond it ...

What I am trying to say is that it is important to not just follow a faith blindly, but to actively engage with it.
As a Christian in a multi-cultural and secular society I am exposed to non-Christian thought all the time!
It is important for me to engage with those thoughts, ideas and values and to look for common ground, because I believe that working together in those shared areas we can make this world a better place. :statisfie

Why should I not be looking for truth in Islam? There is clearly much truth and wisdom in it.
When I listen to my husband, who is not a believer, I know him to be a good, honest and intelligent man. I listen to his advice, because I know it to be often good and beneficial.

I think it would be wrong for me to think that I must not listen to or take advice from non-Christians. Only when we all come together and share our understandings and values, can we work most effectively. Don't you think?

I guess in some ways I agree with you.
I am not so proud to believe that I have it all right, that I understand God perfectly and that I follow him completely correctly.
I am always open to God's guidance, and hopefully where he leads me I will follow. I pray daily that I hear his guidance correctly and that I follow him boldly!
Not without reason does the Lord's Prayer say "Your Kingdom come, your will be done" and "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

To be open to God is the most important thing for me.

Sometimes engaging with the beliefs of others can be daring and even uncomfortable. But I don't think it is a weakness to do so.
Only those who are weak in faith have to focus blindly on what they have been taught and are unable to look further for fear of being misguided.

If we trust God completely, how can he possibly misguide us??
If we believe (as we claim) that God guides those who truly seek him, then what do we have to fear?
Why not step out in faith and walk the path he shows you? (Even if it isn't the path you were expecting)

If God ever guided me to Islam and gave me the conviction that it was his truth I would become a muslimah - plain and simple ...

Peace

salam Glo, thanks for response and a good one too. Its interesting that you say if God lead you to Islam you would follow it when the Christian msg is "no-one goes to the father exept through me", not picking at your belief Glo I respect you too much. The Lords prayer is a great dua. I would never try to get you to abandon ur beliefs either but it backs what I posted, Muslims just know its the truth regardless of how Allah brought them to Islam initially. The trouble with looking into other systems is that people think you will do it again, its not so, Islam is everything once you immerse yourself within it. Peace Glo and God bless you

TKTony said:

salam Glo, thanks for response and a good one too. Its interesting that you say if God lead you to Islam you would follow it when the Christian msg is "no-one goes to the father exept through me", not picking at your belief Glo I respect you too much.

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The Christian message first and foremost is that Jesus' sacrifice reconciled us, sinful and fallen people, to walk in God's favour again.

As for what Jesus meant when he said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" is (in my mind) not so clear.
It certainly means that Jesus will return one day to judge the living and the dead, and that people will see him for who he truly is! (Whether people then still have a chance to accept him as their Lord and Saviour, I am not sure ... although I hope with all my heart that they still will!)

The Lords prayer is a great dua. I would never try to get you to abandon ur beliefs either but it backs what I posted, Muslims just know its the truth regardless of how Allah brought them to Islam initially. The trouble with looking into other systems is that people think you will do it again, its not so, Islam is everything once you immerse yourself within it. Peace Glo and God bless you

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Look, there is much I don't know and understand about God, his word and his instructions to us. I am forever learning ... as I am sure you are too in your understanding of Islam.

The words underneath my forum name mean 'Here I stand'. They are taken from a quote from Martin Luther, the man who caused great controversy in the church in the 16th century, when he initated the Reformation.
When he was asked to explain and defend his opinion to the scholars of his day he is quoted to have said "Here I stand. I can do nothing else. May God help me!"

I find those words so humbling and obedient to God. What a beautiful attitude to have towards God! :statisfie

Basically Luther was saying:
To the best of my knowledge and understanding, this is what I believe to be true. This is the stand-point I hold. Should I be wrong, may God help me and lead me on the right path!

Isn't that wonderful? That is my daily prayer too!
As long as I walk with God and I open my heart towards him, I will walk safely:

If you make the Most High your dwelling—
even the LORD, who is my refuge-

then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent.

For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;

they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name."
(From psalm 91)

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Salaam, Tony. I hope you keep your heart open to God always. May he guide you well.

Thanks Glo, I really like this prayer thanks for sharing, I too hope God guides you and that you and yours are blessed. Thanks for your response to the op, its clearer somewhat now. Peace

TKTony said:

Alhamdulillah. A short but important question. In my experience Christians are open to the fact they maybe wrong, for example searching Islamic forums, my friends who are christian say they are open to possibility and look for the truth in our discussions. Speaking as a muslim I have no desire to try disprove my religion, and furthermore I have never met a muslim who thinks the truth might be outside of Islam. So why are Christians prepared to accept they could be on the wrong path and muslims know they are on the right path ?

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Greetings, Tony

I've another thought on this, namely that those Christians who are willing to hang out in Islamic forums or willing to speak to you face-to-face about their faith are possibly not representative of all Christians ...
What I mean is that by the very fact that they are engaging with other worldviews and religions, they probably fall into that group of Christians who don't feel threatened or intimidated by other beliefs.

I am sure that there are other Christians who will not engage with religions other than their own (and I guess that is fine too) - except you as a Muslim are not so likely to come across that group of Christians, are you?

To give an example, last year the congregation of our church was invited to visit the mosque. A fair few came (even from the older generation, which surprised me), but there was also a large group who thought it was not appropriate to visit a mosque.
So who were the ones who went to chat to the Imam and other Muslims? Christians from the first group, of course. They never got to meet the other who had decided not to come ...



When I re-read this thread I had to chuckle at how easily we draw out own conclusions and make judgements of each other. :rollseyes
One voice says 'If you are looking into other religions you faith cannot be very strong ...'
The other says 'If you daren't look into other religions your faith cannot be very strong ...'
Funny how the human mind works, and how we interpret things to fit into our own perceptions, don't you think?? :giggling:


Since your thread got me thinking, I also had some more thoughts on 'knowing or not knowing to be right'.
Six years ago something happened in my life which left me convinced that Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, and as a consequnce I chose to commit my life to him and become a Christian.
Since then I have lived with my faith in a world which challenges, criticises and/or ridicules it on an almost daily basis. The conviction which I had six year ago has stood the test of time, and I continue to believe what I believed then.

But I have to be honest with myself and admit that - no matter how strong my conviction may be - I have no proof and do not know that I am right!

If we are all honest, none of us know for sure - and we will not know until we die!

So I live with the knowledge that other people may have it 'more right' than me:
Ragdollcat may be right when she says that as a Christian woman I should cover up.
Grenville may be right when he says that although the Bible is God's word, Jesus is not God.
You may be right when you say that the Qu'ran is God's final revelation to mankind and that Muhammed was his final messenger.
My husband may be right when he says that there is no God and no afterlife at all.

How do I discern whether these views are right or not? :?
All I can do is listen to the beliefs and weigh them for myself, put them before God and ask for his guidance.
How convinced other people are and how strong their beliefs are is really pretty irrelevant. After all, one can be very, very certain about something, and still completely wrong ... :X

So I am living my faith, following and worshipping God in the way which I believe to be right, good and true ... but at the same time I acknowledge that there is a possibility that I misunderstand and that I get it (partially or even completely) wrong. That's why I continue to ask for God's guidance daily and keep my heart open to him.
After all, God knows best!

What about you? Do you keep even a slither of a possibility open in your heart that God may wish to lead you differently?

Sorry to be rambling on so ... :-[

Hi Glo, to answer your last point.. no I dont have any doubt that God may lead me a different way, its different for muslims as the rules and guidance is already therewithin the Qur'an and the Sunnah. We believe in Al Qur'an and Rasululahs (peace be upon him) teachings, therefore we cannot believe that there is any possibility of mis guidance, only our own learning curves that are not complete. Islam is a complete system of belief and interaction. I agree with you that we percieve things differently from person to person, and I think that now you point this out I may be guilty of a little arrogance in my op relating to peoples reasons for being in this forum, for this I apologise. The point about not looking into other religions for me at least is that I already did, when I learnt about Islam, angels, jinn etc, some of the things I knew to exist but had no real answer for just dropped into place, ie: fortune telling, ghosts. I am not so blimkered that I dont hold out the possibility of things such as ufo's for example, but if the things like this became apparent it would in no way shake my belief in the oneness of Allah.
I think there are people within Islam that would not wish to enter a church, although I see Islam as being the final route people explore, whether it be the first or after many, the answers are here. There are people in all religions I would guess that have a particular thing or skill to offer, some may be the peace makers, others the lions who are willing to die for their beliefs ( God bless these whatever religion they are from), and then the seekes of truth and knowledge. We all know where we fit and thepeople who chose to go to the mosque were of the latter, but in no way superior to the others. There is probably some who would find the challenge to questioning but each to their own. Something I would relly like to stress is that even the one born into Islam has to remain there of free will and this is still there commitment, I sometimes think its harder for them as that is all they know, but there again the truth is a strong compelling force.
I imagine you would like to see us become Christian as we would like to see you become Muslim,no-one tries to push because we do not want you to leave theforum, you are very well respected, but I will pray for it if you dont mind. You see its a strange thing, I see inthe news how a white familly saved a Muslim boy from choking, his parents said they were angels and I could see in there eyes that they would give their lives in return, all in Bradford!!! The one gift that they really wanted to give, and this is how I feel genuinely for you, is that of the truth within the Qur'an, its such a hard thing to do but it is worth more than gold, or even our own lives. Soory went on a tangent then, but will leave it in.
Now the thing about not knowing whether your right or wrong or even on the right path is a puzzling one for me, I see how you are "standing here " and I admire you and know what its like, your faith will allow you walk infire if nescessary, but there seems to be the tiniest doubt therte, or whatif. I heard this when I was Christian, people saying well even if were wrong its a good way to live life, I heard a vicar say that it does not matter which path you follow as long as you are devout it willl lead to God. I ralise that these are wonderful statements, but they are mere people with serving hearfts, there is only the prophets(Allahs peace and blessings be upon them) that are qualified to make any statement regarding who will be on the right path.
Sorry about spelling mistakes and disjointed rambling:-[ just going wiht the flow, Glo.
My ultimate reason for thinking I am right does not come from any arrogance tho, apart from the scientific avidence and teachings of the Prophet(pbuh), I have the fact my prayers are answered without doubt, the feelins of wudu before namaz and namaz itself, its not just a therapeutic or relaxing meditation, its not any kind of self induced emotional state, it really is the power of Allah and His grace freeing us. I feel tearful just writing this, when Adhan is called I feel same way. I am not a tearful person !
I would leave you with this thought, you would, I imagine believe in the succsession of prophets prior to Jesus(pbuh), they all prayed the same way, to the same God and called Him Allah. Muhammad (pbuh) was a great man, he could not write and yet memorised the teachings of those other prophets, and lead his people, and was a great humanitarian. He also memorised the Qur'an and found time to teach through Hadiths the right way, as far as I know he never contradicted himself once, now without divine intercession I honestly do not believe it possible. Soo all the prophets prayed the same, Muhammad(pbuh) carried on the same and brought to us new rules from Allah and new technicalities of our religion, as well as truths that would not be realised 1400 years, I dont see how in this long line that Jesus woul turn up as son of God and change it all, God sureley would not throw a spanner in the works just to catch people out. Jesus(pbuh) was a prophet and one of the high ranking ones at that, but it does not make sense that Muhammad,who is foretold in the Bible, would be able to change it again unless it was already the way things should be.
Anyway Glo enough rambling from me, I hope you dont think I am trying to convince you as you are intelligent enough to make up your own mind, look forward to you response , peace and blessings of God be upon you and your familly

^
I feel less guilty about my lengthy posts already, Tony!

In my case- I know I am on the right path and will never swerved from it. I do not have a blind faith:

Proverbs 14
15 A simple man believes anything,
but a prudent man gives thought to his steps

John 14
11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

1 Thessalonians 5
21Test everything. Hold on to the good.

Acts 17
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Holy Bible is not a science book it is accurate when describing nature/world. There are multiple witnesses to the events mentioned in the Holy Bible. There are the truths that is being revealed in archeology and secular historians.

So why have I studied the Quran for going on 6 years now? To make sure that it truly was or wasn't from GOD.

Never stop learning-

2 Timothy 2
15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


So why am I here? To correct mis-statements and untruths spoken by Muslims about the Holy Bible and Christianity.

TKTony said:

Alhamdulillah. A short but important question. In my experience Christians are open to the fact they maybe wrong, for example searching Islamic forums, my friends who are christian say they are open to possibility and look for the truth in our discussions. Speaking as a muslim I have no desire to try disprove my religion, and furthermore I have never met a muslim who thinks the truth might be outside of Islam. So why are Christians prepared to accept they could be on the wrong path and muslims know they are on the right path ?

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I don't think it has much to do with a particular religion, it's more about cultural background. There are plenty of Christian communities which would exhibit exactly the same attitude as is being ascribed to muslims, here.

Let's get one thing clear, though, learning about other religions has nothing to do with 'disproving' your own. If you set out to do that, you have already succeeded, in your own mind at least. It's actually about searching for the truth, and searching for increased understanding of other people. rpwelton suggests TKTony's experience is explained by there being more 'evidence' for Islam than Christianity, a point I'm sure virtually all Christians with disagree with, and I would hold there is far more 'evidence' for the truth of Buddhism than either.. which is why I am a Buddhist - so the point is clearly mute. Most muslims are born muslim and have no real way of assessing whether there is more 'evidence' for Islam or not - you need something to compare it with, which means studying alternatives honestly and fairly (and I don't mean reading Yayha's nonsense).

The essential point is that such research can actually solidify your belief in your own faith. Having marched up to, met, critically but fairly addressed and been dissatisfied with the alternatives, your own beliefs are on a much stronger basis than a claimed 'faith' which basically amounts to no more than "I couldn't be bothered to find out" or, worse, "I was afraid to find out". In searching for the TRUTH, you do have to accept it might not turn out to be what you want it to be. But in denying that fact you are only lying to yourself.

Trumble said:

The essential point is that such research can actually solidify your belief in your own faith. Having marched up to, met, critically but fairly addressed and been dissatisfied with the alternatives, your own beliefs are on a much stronger basis than a claimed 'faith' which basically amounts to no more than "I couldn't be bothered to find out" or, worse, "I was afraid to find out". In searching for the TRUTH, you do have to accept it might not turn out to be what you want it to be. But in denying that fact you are only lying to yourself.

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Nicely put, Trumble.

You said it better than me, and somehow more succinctly!

TKTony said:

So why are Christians prepared to accept they could be on the wrong path and muslims know they are on the right path ?

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Because brother do you have that strong feeling of iman inside you, do you feel that connection with Allah? and can we even find a single flaw in islam even if we don't have iman? This is what prevents any single doubts in our way of life, you can see its flawless. There are other proofs that we can look to such as how islam is growing and spreading, but the main thing is what Allah has given us; our iman, the Quran, guidence throughout etc.

Whereas christians are right to have doubts, theres too many questionable beliefs in christianity that create this open mindness towards other faiths in the first place, thats if the people following are sincere and can see the flaws in their own system.

Trumble said:

The essential point is that such research can actually solidify your belief in your own faith. Having marched up to, met, critically but fairly addressed and been dissatisfied with the alternatives, your own beliefs are on a much stronger basis than a claimed 'faith' which basically amounts to no more than "I couldn't be bothered to find out" or, worse, "I was afraid to find out". In searching for the TRUTH, you do have to accept it might not turn out to be what you want it to be. But in denying that fact you are only lying to yourself.

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aadil77 said:

Because brother do you have that strong feeling of iman inside you, do you feel that connection with Allah? and can we even find a single flaw in islam even if we don't have iman? This is what prevents any single doubts in our way of life, you can see its flawless. There are other proofs that we can look to such as how islam is growing and spreading, but the main thing is what Allah has given us; our iman, the Quran, guidence throughout etc.

Whereas christians are right to have doubts, theres too many questionable beliefs in christianity that create this open mindness towards other faiths in the first place, thats if the people following are sincere and can see the flaws in their own system.

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I was expecting a response similar to your aadil, and I understand the point you are making.
Indeed, as I was replying to Trumble I thought that others might argue exactly that: 'Once you have found the truth, you can stop your search!'

However, I believe that we as human beings can never fully know the TRUTH ... not until the day we meet our Maker.

Therefore I feel very strongly that life should be an ongoing process of learning, studying and seeking to become closer to God.
Those who claim that they 'have found the truth' are at real danger of becoming stale and stagnant, because they stop seeking and yearning!

Of course, most of us continue to search an study within the parameter of our belief system/religion ... but, as Trumble said, there is always a possibility that the TRUTH lies beyond those parameters.
Many are not willing to step across that line - religious teachings are usually very good at preventing followers from doing so through the use of threat of punishment ...

The question we should ask ourselves is are we following religious teachings or are we following God?

Thanks for responses, the fact still remains that muslims do not look further as there is no need to, if yoiu claim belief then there sureley is nofurther need for open minded acceptance of being wrong. We are muslims because we found the truth, there is no point in looking any further. Islam is the perfect system, peace.

TKTony said:

Thanks for responses, the fact still remains that muslims do not look further as there is no need to, if yoiu claim belief then there sureley is nofurther need for open minded acceptance of being wrong.

We are muslims because we found the truth, there is no point in looking any further. Islam is the perfect system, peace.

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Sorry, but that is just arrogance, and if that is your view I can't understand the point of the original question. Obviously many millions, indeed billions, of others think exactly the same in regard to religions other than Islam; there is nothing special about Islam in that sense. It just happens to be your religion.

A belief you have found the truth is meaningless unless you have fairly investigated the alternative possibilities. Unless you do, you have no measure by which to measure truth.

Arrogance is coming to an Islamic forum and spouting zen (or whatever) teachings that are compiled in a manner that no-one ever really understands, my post are sincere and as far as I am able they are humble. If I cannot state my beliefs here then where can I. All my posts are from personal experience and that experience tells me that people who come to Islam are highly unlikely to ever leave, there fore it represents the truth tomany people who need not look any further,I am sure budhist monks have a very different veiw of the truth to you, I pray you find the truth and dont need to adhere to a system of beliefs that only serves to create a false impression upon the practitioner that they are somehow better than others because they claim to have attained some elusive inner enlightenment based purely on egotistical flattery
I have discovered many avenues of belief and tried many, Islam is the truth. Why would it be wrong to come to Islam first and feel that it is the truth, To explore avenues of belief after you have found the truth is ridiculous, why would you do that ? Or are to believe Trumble says its so therefore we must do it, comeon, who is the really arrogant one here.