Term `islamism` in polish wikipedia (with translation to english)

[urbmich]

I found term `islamism` in polish wikipedia (I'm Pole) and after reading I decided to try to translate it to english for You and post it here for your comments. I'm interested in islam, but for now it's a bit of complicated for me (maybe because of messing western media). I'm conscious my english may be better and my translation has mistakes. I will be glad if you correct text by the way (I know it's not english language forum, but you can treat is like a help for Christian and we have common G-d ;])

Translation `islamism` from polish wikipedia (it may be controversial for you, muslims):

Some political scientist notices, that islamism is new term for predominating doctrine in islam from its beginning. In mainstream of islam both in sunni islam and shia islam, religion, nation and law are inseparable. It is duty for believing muslim - it is clearly come off from both Qur'an and tradition (Sunnah) - fight for instituting islamic nation and law around the whole world. Otherwise than in Christianity, islam don't provide separation of religion and nation and every act in aim of separation religious and laic has anti-religious character. In connection with this, islamism is in present-day islam, predominant political and intelectual movement.

According to Daniel Pipes, american political scientist, islamism constists of one of three answers islamic world for challenges of contemporaneity and predomination of western culture, next to secularism and reformism.

In islamists feeling, they were dominated by west, because they aren't good muslims. Hence conclusion that it's possible to restore lost in past glory only by returning to way of tradition and it's possible only in life in full subordination to Sharia law. Islamists strives to refuse all aspects of West influences: customs, philosophy, political institutions and values. "But despite those efforts, farther they takes from west a lot. Because still they need modern technology, especial for military and medicine. But on the other hand, themselves tends to modern lifestyle and because of this, they are deeper in that" - noticed Pipes.

[urbmich]

Everybody agrees with this text? No comments? If so islam is not for me...

[aamirsaab]

Everybody agrees with this text? No comments? If so islam is not for me...

1) There is a difference between Islamism and Islam.
2) I don't fully understand the polish translation of Islamism (and the majority of your post) so cannot comment. Could you perhaps explain it a little more.

Cheers me duck.

[doorster]

English version @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[alcurad]

no, this text is mostly wrong, islamism is a strange term coined by people who don't know much about Islam.

[جوري]

no, this text is mostly wrong, islamism is a strange term coined by people who don't know much about Islam.

lol, hence it isn't for them?...
I make up lies and decide wow, whaooo, what an abomination.. no this ain't for me..

and I love that he quotes the turd daniel pipe.. shouldn't a turd like that nullify his existence with his double turdiness?

hilarious

:w:

[doorster]

:sl:

lol, hence it isn't for them?...
I make up lies and decide wow, whaooo, what an abomination.. no this ain't for me..

and I love that he quotes the turd daniel pipe.. shouldn't a turd like that nullify his existence with his double turdiness?

hilarious

:w:

my original reply, from which I later chickened out to avoid a lecture on Islamic aadab from some 9 year old web-mullahs, was as follows:

(paraphrasing myself here)

Everybody agrees with this text? No comments?

No comment

If so islam is not for me.

It is not obligatory upon us to beg you/trick you (or force you) to become Muslim.

however, if you have any specific question, then ask and I'll reply unless and until it becomes an argument then I'll take your leave since wasting time is not a good (or halal) thing to do.

peace

[جوري]

:sl:

my original reply, from which I later chickened out to avoid a lecture on Islamic aadab from some 9 year old web-mullahs, was as follows:

(paraphrasing myself here)
No comment I t is not obligatory upon us to beg you/trick you (or force you) to become Muslim.

however, if you have any specific question, then ask and I'll reply unless and until it becomes an argument then I'll take your leave since wasting time is not a good (or halal) thing to do.

peace

:sl:

you shouldn't chicken out of any reply.. Sometimes I wonder from which cesspool these folks are unleashed?.. like locusts they descend upon us with insults and wrong information and we are asked to be courteous to them in return? Sob7an Allah

Already I can't stand that turd bag Daniel pipes, of whom even some right wingers and Jews are vexed.. not that I am asking you to visit his website but the turdbag in order to assert his claims with references at times he quotes himself bwaahahaha.. haven't come across anything more amusing than that..

:w:

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Already I can't stand that turd bag Daniel pipes, of whom even some right wingers and Jews are vexed.. not that I am asking you to visit his website but the turdbag in order to assert his claims with references at times he quotes himself bwaahahaha.. haven't come across anything more amusing than that..

Surely there are better ways of dismissing someone's views than calling them a "turd bag"?

Peace

[redblackmask]

:sl:

you shouldn't chicken out of any reply.. Sometimes I wonder from which cesspool these folks are unleashed?.. like locusts they descend upon us with insults and wrong information and we are asked to be courteous to them in return? Sob7an Allah

Already I can't stand that turd bag Daniel pipes, of whom even some right wingers and Jews are vexed.. not that I am asking you to visit his website but the turdbag in order to assert his claims with references at times he quotes himself bwaahahaha.. haven't come across anything more amusing than that..

:w:

Man, you're one angry little chicklet aren't you? Of course, you didn't change, even after I made you come to your senses for a while in that thread a while back.

Islamism, in my view, shouldn't be used as much as it is. If you want to differentiate the real Islam from the radicals and extremists, then don't even include the world Islam in it, just say Radical Islam or Islamic Extremism.

[جوري]

Greetings,


Surely there are better ways of dismissing someone's views than calling them a "turd bag"?

Peace

no in the case of Daniel pipes, I believe it immensely justified as I have spent-- rather, I should say wasted a large chunk of my time reading and replying his manure which was removed as soon as it was written (an exercise in futility I have come to learn) --he asserts his muck by quoting more of his own muck.
Sadly I can't re-gain time I have wasted...

I'd not offer him dignity I confer on those I simply dislike as he has long passed that stage into absurdity.. Turd bag sums him and his views well!

all the best

[czgibson]

Greetings,

no in the case of Daniel pipes, I believe it immensely justified as I have spent-- rather, I should say wasted a large chunk of my time reading and replying his manure which was removed as soon as it was written (an exercise in futility I have come to learn) --he asserts his muck by quoting more of his own muck.
Sadly I can't re-gain time I have wasted...

I'd not offer him dignity I confer on those I simply dislike as he has long passed that stage into absurdity.. Turd bag sums him and his views well!

all the best

I agree with you that his views are not worthy of respect, but using insults in discussion generally reflects more on you than on your target.

Peace

[Whatsthepoint]

no, this text is mostly wrong, islamism is a strange term coined by people who don't know much about Islam.

Islamism is essentially the view that Islam should play a greater role in daily lives politics etc, Islamic revival if you will only the altter term only encompasses political movements withing existing Muslims counries whereas islamism usually refers to fundies in kuffar lands as well..
Islamism like most isms has negative connotations though.

[جوري]

Greetings,


I agree with you that his views are not worthy of respect, but using insults in discussion generally reflects more on you than on your target.

Peace

and normally indeed I'd agree with that, except at this stage I can't seem to care-- Turd bag is the only adjective I have for him.. actually recalling what I have read and rebutted and had removed makes me so incredibly angry, that the term almost seems endearing.

You are not rousing in me a sound practical judgment-- I believe the last pamphlet I saw by him circulating in NYC for a conference he was holding .

Do you hate Muslims we do too, and something about lunch being served, luckily the folks at columbia uni didn't want to host his tirade so it didn't come to pass... but no, I really don't care how this reflects on me.

all the best

[alcurad]

isms are usually meant disparagingly, and it still remains to be seen if usual western folk will ever get over the propaganda and spin,,

[redblackmask]

isms are usually meant disparagingly, and it still remains to be seen if usual western folk will ever get over the propaganda and spin,,

I don't mean to be rude, but its' not the western folks fault. When we hear all time of Muslims being involved in terrorist activities, we can't help but become a little cautious of Muslims.

[aamirsaab]

I don't mean to be rude, but its' not the western folks fault. When we hear all time of Muslims being involved in terrorist activities, we can't help but become a little cautious of Muslims.

It doesn't help that the media only covers the terrorist bit and leaves out all the rest; you know, that we're God-fearing, tax paying law-abiding citizens. Plus, in America you are bombarded with extreme left and right views, so I guess I can offer some sympathy to those who are confused about muslims.

In which case, I would strongly urge the non-muslims (who feel cautious about muslims and Islam in general) to speak with muslims. Just normal day to day chinwagging (doesn't have to be something political or philosophical etc) because contrary to popular belief, all we want is to live peacefully. And eat some chicken.

[Clover]

Everybody agrees with this text? No comments? If so islam is not for me...

Do not be so quick to dis-regard a religion. Be informed on the religion as much as possible, then, if neccessary, dis-regard it, but never ignore it.

[urbmich]

1) There is a difference between Islamism and Islam.

I've felt difference between Islam (at least thereabouts). So I asked question: is following sentence true? "Islamism is in present-day Islam, predominant political and intelectual movement.". Nobody said that's false (at least not in this topic - I understand you may be tired of endless explaining it to non-muslims).

2) I don't fully understand the polish translation of Islamism (and the majority of your post) so cannot comment. Could you perhaps explain it a little more.

Sorry for my english. I'm trying improve it :)

English version @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

You pasted link to english version, but polish wikipedia page about islamism has different content, so I translate (as best as I can) polish one for you.

and I love that he quotes the turd daniel pipe..

Believe me or not - I didn't anything about Daniel Pipe before, I found it in polish wikipedia - I'm Pole so it's understandable. I didn't want to insult anybody, spread manipulated informations etc. Just find your opinion (muslim's opinion), because firstly when I read this text - I thought you may disagree with text and I wanted to know why.

It is not obligatory upon us to beg you/trick you (or force you) to become Muslim.

Tell me where I said that's obligatory upon you? :)

I would strongly urge the non-muslims (who feel cautious about muslims and Islam in general) to speak with muslims

So I try to do with you.

Do not be so quick to dis-regard a religion. Be informed on the religion as much as possible, then, if neccessary, dis-regard it, but never ignore it.

I'm not dis-regarding a religion. I still gather informations about your culture. I was only scared if it's true that "Islamism is in present-day Islam, predominant political and intelectual movement." and one more time - I think I feel difference between islam and islamism.

[Clover]

I'm not dis-regarding a religion. I still gather informations about your culture. I was only scared if it's true that "Islamism is in present-day Islam, predominant political and intelectual movement." and one more time - I think I feel difference between islam and islamism.

Ok, good that you don't. My culture? I am lost. You know I'm not Muslim right?

I believe their is, I read a book on Fundamentals of Islam, and I am pretty sure it called Islamism the use of Islam for political means, let me try to find the book and what it said. I'll edit this once I find it.

[Suomipoika]

In which case, I would strongly urge the non-muslims (who feel cautious about muslims and Islam in general) to speak with muslims. Just normal day to day chinwagging (doesn't have to be something political or philosophical etc) because contrary to popular belief, all we want is to live peacefully. And eat some chicken.

Ironically I tried that, by arriving to this forum to discuss with and mostly find out what muslims think. I feel more worried about muslims than ever before when I was solely under the mercy of the press image of muslims.

[urbmich]

Ok, good that you don't. My culture? I am lost. You know I'm not Muslim right?

I believe their is, I read a book on Fundamentals of Islam, and I am pretty sure it called Islamism the use of Islam for political means, let me try to find the book and what it said. I'll edit this once I find it.

Sorry, I missed that you aren't muslim.

[aamirsaab]

Ironically I tried that, by arriving to this forum to discuss with and mostly find out what muslims think. I feel more worried about muslims than ever before when I was solely under the mercy of the press image of muslims.

I said chin-wagging - not political and religious talk ;). Most of the conversations that occur on LI are either political and/or religious. General chin-wagging like asking how your day was etc is what I meant. Now that is rare on the internet, but common in real life. Thus, my point is to go out and actually meet them in person and chin-wag; you'd be suprise at how normal we are ;)

Also, I think you are the only one who has had that 'bad' experience. In fact, from my recollection, we’ve actually had several reverts to Islam as a direct result of their experience of this forum, so I guess it’s different for everyone.

Islamism is in present-day Islam, predominant political and intelectual movement.".

Islam is a complete way of life that enompasses every angle; there are rules and regulations for political, social, economical, legal, health care, business etc. Islam pretty much covers every aspect. Some people love it, some people hate it.

Edit; it's good that you are asking questions.

[Suomipoika]

I said chin-wagging - not political and religious talk ;). Most of the conversations that occur on LI are either political and/or religious. General chin-wagging like asking how your day was etc is what I meant. Now that is rare on the internet, but common in real life. Thus, my point is to go out and actually meet them in person and chin-wag; you'd be suprise at how normal we are ;)

I'm not sure how to categorise muslims. There are many nice and good people here yet at the same time I'm afraid/worried of the political aspect and political opinions of muslims that are so heavily present in here. Would talking about weather or how his day was make you feel better about potential BNP member or voter no matter how polite or nice he was?

Also, I think you are the only one who has had that 'bad' experience. In fact, from my recollection, we’ve actually had several reverts to Islam as a direct result of their experience of this forum, so I guess it’s different for everyone.

Not really. A lot of non-muslim posters who have been here long time, sometimes even years, have eventually been banned, ever wonder why after so long time they take that route? How good was their experience?

[Muezzin]

I'm not sure how to categorise muslims. There are many nice and good people here yet at the same time I'm afraid/worried of the political aspect and political opinions of muslims that are so heavily present in here. Would talking about weather or how his day was make you feel better about potential BNP member or voter no matter how polite or nice he was?

If I was that averse to BNP members I wouldn't frequent a BNP message board.

If I was not willing to let go of my prejudices (regardless of how well-founded they might be) and at least listen to said BNP members, whom I am seeking out, the exercise would be rather fruitless.

If I went away with my prejudices reinforced as a result, that would be unfortunate. It would not be for lack of attempting to open my mind.

Not really. A lot of non-muslim posters who have been here long time, sometimes even years, have eventually been banned, ever wonder why after so long time they take that route? How good was their experience?

I can name two members who became Muslim as a result of this forum.

I can name the individual you're talking about who was banned. That's two members who became Muslim, and one who was banned. Two out of three ain't bad.

As for why he was banned, I can think of many reasons other than the ones you're implying (i.e. in that particular members' case, it was more a question of how much of his behaviour we would tolerate for how long).

And the real elephant in the room is that you are still here yourself.

Now maybe we can return to the topic. If you'd like an argument, do PM me.

I don't mean to be rude, but its' not the western folks fault. When we hear all time of Muslims being involved in terrorist activities, we can't help but become a little cautious of Muslims.

And this is a fair, valid point to make.

An equally fair, valid point is, when voluntarily approaching such a group for clarification, to keep an open mind.

It takes two to tango. And to communicate.

[true believer]

personally I DIDNT UNDERSTAND THAT. im muslim but if u wanna know bout islam...ask a muslim dnt bother goin to some wikipedia which is just theories and "facts" from a NON muslim, a muslim person would know islam betta den a non muslim, mostly because non muslims like to take things out of context and twist the truth meaning of islam therefore naturally ppl try not to learn bout it. but i suggest u be more openminded...there r two sides to every story, ur choice whether u read both.

[AntiKarateKid]

I don't mean to be rude, but its' not the western folks fault. When we hear all time of Muslims being involved in terrorist activities, we can't help but become a little cautious of Muslims.

Westerners have much more blood on their hands than "islamists". So I think we should be cautious of you no?

[Karl]

Westerners have much more blood on their hands than "islamists". So I think we should be cautious of you no?

Yeah, Westerners were created to keep the population down. Planning to nuke China and India no doubt.:skeleton: