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love_quran
06-22-2009, 04:02 PM
I Know the Quran states Jesus wasnt crucified and that another was crucified in his place. Assuming this to be so:

:hmm:What happened to Jesus?
:hmm:Is he still alive?
:hmm:Was he raised like Moses?

I hope i do not offend anyone... but this question of late has been pulling on me to have an answer before i give the testification.
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Walkinfront
06-23-2009, 03:49 AM
In the quran it says:

(11) And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Îsa (jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Îsa (jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, 'Îsa (jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection . Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)


Basically Allah (SWT) raised Jesus to heaven, and he is there now.

According to the hadith in Bukhari and also in Muslim I believe, Jesus will come down to us near the end of time, kill the slaughter all the pigs, marry, kill the anti-christ and then stay leader to the Muslims until the day of judgment arrives.
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Walkinfront
06-23-2009, 05:12 AM
I posted a reply but apparently it takes a while to get approved because of my low post count. Inshallah it will come up soon...
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HopeFul
06-23-2009, 08:00 AM
Assalamoalaikum,

WOW, indeed this is great, MashaAllah MashaAllah i am so excited for you, weeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D

aww this si really cute.

As for Isa ( Alaihi salam) ( Jesus)

He was raised alive into the skies

so he is still alive and lives in the sky, ( one of the heavens ) as we say but not paradise as he is with his body, or so i think

I didnt understand as to what you mean by was he raised like moses?
InshaAllah ill try and post ahadees or ayats ere for u, it is refereed in chapter maryam that he was raised into the heaven.

May Allah guide you, ameen
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MSN
06-23-2009, 01:20 PM
This'll help you InshaAllah brother:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12730
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- IqRa -
06-23-2009, 01:26 PM
InshaAllah someone help.
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Muslim Woman
06-23-2009, 03:18 PM
Salaam/Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by love_quran
....
:hmm:Was he raised like Moses?

.

Moses (pbuh) was raised ?? I did not know that . There is no such verse in Quran or hadith ; most probably not in Bible also.
Reply

catalzzy
06-23-2009, 09:53 PM
well, basically Jesus is raised to Allah s.w.t. He is still alive there in heaven and will be having his second come back into this world inshallah. :)
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'Abd-al Latif
06-23-2009, 10:43 PM
Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, tells us that Jesus (upon whom be peace) was raised up to heaven just one time, in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“But Allaah raised him up (with his body and soul) unto Himself…” [al-Nisa’ 4:158] and Allaah does not tell us that Jesus was sent back to this earth. So those who claim that Jesus was sent back to this earth have to bring us evidence and proof. If they cannot do that – and they will never be able to do it – then their argument has no basis.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when Allaah said: ‘O Eesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that ‘Eesa (Jesus) is Allaah’s son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (monotheists, who worship none but Allaah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the oneness of Allaah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, or in His Holy Books] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute.”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:55]

Ibn Jareer, may Allaah have mercy on him, explained that the word “mutawaffeeka” [which usually refers to death and is translated here as “raise” – Translator] refers to his being taken up, but most of the scholars said that the meaning here is sleep, as Allaah says elsewhere in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is He, Who takes your souls [yatawaffaakum] by night (when you are asleep)…”[al-An’aam 6:60]

“It is Allaah Who takes away [yatawaffaa] the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep…”[al-Zumar 39:42]

When he got up from sleeping, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would say, “Al-hamdu Lillaah illadhi ahyaanaa ba’da maa amaatanaa wa ilayh il-nushoor (Praise be to Allaah Who has brought us back to life after causing us to die, and unto Him is the resurrection).” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6312; Muslim, 2711)

Allaah’s statement that He raised Jesus up to heaven is also a refutation of the Jews’ claim to have killed him. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Because of their breaking the covenant, and of their rejecting the aayat (signs) of Allaah, and of their killing the Prophets unjustly, and of their saying, ‘Our hearts are wrapped (with coverings, i.e., we do not understand what the Messengers say)’ – nay, Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief, so they believe not but a little.

And because of their (Jews’) disbelief and uttering against Maryam (Mary) a grave false charge (that she had committed illegal sexual intercourse);

And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah’ – but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e., ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)].

But Allaah raised him [‘Eesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allaah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise.

And there is none of the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him [‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allaah and a human being], before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he [‘Eesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.”[al-Nisa’ 4:155-159]

Jesus (peace be upon him) has not died yet; Allaah raised him up unto Himself because the Jews wanted to kill him, and he will descend again at the end of time and rule the earth according to Islam. He will live for as long as Allaah wants him to, then he will die and the Muslims will pray [the janaazah or funeral prayer] for him. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The pronoun in the phrase before his death refers to Jesus (peace be upon him), i.e., there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in Jesus – that is when he comes back down to the earth before the Day of Resurrection, as we will explain below. At that time all of the People of the Book will believe in him because he will abolish the jizyah and will accept nothing but Islam…

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning)

“and [I will] clear you of those who disbelieve” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:55] means “by raising you up to heaven” and “I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection” is what did indeed happen. When Allaah took the Messiah (peace be upon him) up into heaven, his followers split into different groups. Some of them believed in what Allaah had sent him with, that he was a slave and messenger of Allaah, the son of His female slave. Some of them exaggerated about him and made him the son of God, and others said that he was God, or that he was the third of three (trinity). Allaah described what they said in the Qur’aan, and refuted all of them. They continued like that for nearly three hundred years, then one of the Greek kings called Constantine came along and entered the Christian religion. It was said that this was a plot to corrupt the religion, that he was a philosopher, or that he was ignorant. Whatever the case, he changed and distorted the religion of the Messiah, adding things and taking things away. It was at the time of Constantine that pork was permitted and they began to pray towards the East; they made images in their churches, shrines and monasteries, and added ten days to their fasting because of a sin that he had committed, as they claim. The religion of the Messiah became the religion of Constantine. He built more than twelve thousand churches, shrines and monasteries for them, and the city that bore his name [Constantinople – now Istanbul]. A sect of Christians followed him and they prevailed over the Jews with the help of Allaah, because they were closer to the truth, even though all of them were kaafirs – may the curse of Allaah be upon them all! When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), some of those who believed in him believed truly in Allaah, His angels, His Books and His Messengers, so they were followers of every Prophet who had ever lived on earth. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/3221
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Shoes
06-23-2009, 11:09 PM
I think (though correct me if I'm wrong) that love_quran was referring to Surah 4:156-159:

That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;
And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
(Yusuf Ali)

I've heard different interpretations of this; some say that Jesus wasn't crucified at all, while others say that he was crucified but didn't die in the process. Is there a mainstream view on this, and (the more important question, in my humble opinion) is there a historical justification for this interpretation?

Salam,
Shoes
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rk9414
06-23-2009, 11:17 PM
Imam Abu Jafar bin Jarir At-Tabari reported that Ibn Abbas said,

"When Allah decided to raise `Isa to heaven, `Isa went to his companions while drops of water were dripping from his head. At that time, there were twelve men at the house. Isa said to them, `Some of you will disbelieve in me twelve times after having believed in me.'

He then asked,`Who among you volunteers that he be made to resemble me and be killed instead of me; he will be with be in my place (in Paradise).'

One of the youngest men present volunteered, but `Isa commanded him to sit down. `Isa repeated his statement and the young man again stood up and volunteered, and `Isa again told him to sit down. `Isa repeated the same statement and the young man volunteered. This time, `Isa said, `Then it will be you.'

The appearance of `Isa was cast upon that young man, while `Isa, peace be on him, was raised to heaven through an opening in the roof of the house. The Jews came looking for `Isa and arrested the one that appeared as him, killing him by crucifixion.

Some of them disbelieved in `Isa twelve times, after they had believed in him. They divided into three groups.

One group, Al-Ya`qubiyyah (the Jacobites), said, `Allah remained with us as much as He willed and then ascended to heaven.'

Another group, An-Nasturiyyah (the Nestorians), said, `Allah's son remained with us as much as Allah willed and He then raised him up to heaven.'

A third group said, `Allah's servant and Messenger remained with us as much as Allah willed and then Allah raised him up to Him.' The last group was the Muslim group.

The two disbelieving groups collaborated against the Muslim group and annihilated it. Islam remained unjustly concealed until Allah sent Muhammad,

From Tafsir Ibn Kathir Surah 61
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rk9414
06-23-2009, 11:22 PM
Was he raised like Moses?

I believe you are confusing Moses with Enoch (Idris)
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Grace Seeker
06-24-2009, 03:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Walkinfront
In the quran it says:

(11) And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Îsa (jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Îsa (jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, 'Îsa (jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Resurrection . Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)
Normally, when editors of most books use brackets [ ] within a quote that indicate material that was not actually part of the original quote. Is that not also true with the Qur'an? My understanding is that the material that is contained in the brackets -- for instance, "[of the forged statement that 'Îsa (jesus) is Allah's son]" -- is not actually part of the recitation that Muhammad (pbuh) actually received, but are explanatory notes provided by the translators as commentary. Is that a fair assessment of them?
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love_quran
06-24-2009, 03:47 PM
Firstly, thank you for the good responses and "PMs" i recieved in reply to this topic. They are alleviating my concern/fear about the reliability of the Quranic account of a faked crucifixion. (Amazing what 35+ years of christian indoctrination will do to you .isnt it?)

The reason i asked about this is Whilst in a dua-like form of prayer i have adopted recently i had some clouded thought as to what precisely was causing me to be specifically doubtful about Islam (that ive delayed making the testification). After specifically calling upon Allah(swt) 3 central points (oneof which is the allegation of false crucification ive found in several Quran passaages[i know i really should keep better track of where i am finding things in the quran]) Upon which I prayed specifically about one of these three (since i felt i did enough research/learning on the web and in the Quran to perhaps "merit" some sort of clarification on the point).

My reason for asking the question in the current thread is to help me obtain enuff information so i will feel comfortable going to Allah(swt) with my petition for guidance on the crucification issue.

Given what you all have shared on this topic i am sure i will feel comfortable going to Allah(swt) for Guidance on this. After this ive only one more issue left(that i can think of/was given to me by Allah(swt) to focus my studies on up to this point. Thanks be to Allah(swt) for all His guidance and for your good input.

PS. please continue posting more info on this topic here as perhaps others may be helped by it :-)
PSS I prolly used the words "raised up" improperly. In the Bible(kjv) it states that the end of Moses is unknown. (He did not cross the Jordan with Israel) there have been 2 main theories on the topic i, atleast, am privy to:

1. that Moses was burried by the Lord
2. That Moses, did not taste death but was ascended to heaven (simialar to what Christians say about Christ after the supposed resurection)

I have tended to go for #2 above because the christian churches i associiated with throughout my life teneded to use #2 to explain just how Jesus fullfilled the comparison to Moses)

My apologies if I inadvertantly clouded the entire question/thread i proffered with the use of the wrong/unclear words.
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Shoes
06-25-2009, 12:32 AM
love_quran, for Moses' death, check out Deuteronomy 34.

As for the comparisons between Moses and Jesus, the most significant are:
  • both established covenants
  • both miracle workers
  • both knew God (the Father) face to face

as these are the features of Moses' life which make him unique among the OT prophets.

Hope this clears a couple of things up,
Shoes
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Ali_008
06-25-2009, 04:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Normally, when editors of most books use brackets [ ] within a quote that indicate material that was not actually part of the original quote. Is that not also true with the Qur'an? My understanding is that the material that is contained in the brackets -- for instance, "[of the forged statement that 'Îsa (jesus) is Allah's son]" -- is not actually part of the recitation that Muhammad (pbuh) actually received, but are explanatory notes provided by the translators as commentary. Is that a fair assessment of them?
:sl:
The commentators have to add that content in the brackets so as to provide a clear meaning in the translating language, as you might be aware.

In the Quran, there are other verses without the requirement of any brackets that state that Eesa (alayhi salam) is not the son of God. Like the following

Surah Maidah : Verse 72 (without the brackets)

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah , son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun there are no helpers.

(with brackets)

Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.

And Surah Ikhlaas, which gives the most brief and perfect definition of God, verse 3 states that Allah begets not nor is he begotten.

Surah Ikhlas


1. Say (O Muhammad :arabic5:): "He is Allah, (the) One.

2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).

3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Coming to the original question

format_quote Originally Posted by love_quran
I Know the Quran states Jesus wasnt crucified and that another was crucified in his place. Assuming this to be so:

:hmm:What happened to Jesus?
:hmm:Is he still alive?
:hmm:Was he raised like Moses?

I hope i do not offend anyone... but this question of late has been pulling on me to have an answer before i give the testification.
1. Already answered above by brothers and sisters.
2. Same as 1.
3. Moses (pbuh) being raised is nowhere mentioned in the Qur'an and could be a biblical interpretation and so far I've not heard any Hadeeth that states anything about Moses (pbuh) being raised.

but there's this hadeeth :

Abu Hurairah narrated: "The Angel of Death was sent to Musa (pbuh). When he came to Musa, Musa slapped him on the eye. The Angel returned to his Lord and said: 'You have sent me to a slave who does not want to die.' Allah said: 'Return to him and tell him to put his hand on the back of an ox and for every hair that will come under it, he will be granted one year of life.' Musa said: 'O Lord! What will happen after that?' Allah replied: 'then death.' Musa said: 'Let it come now!' Musa then requested Allah to let him die close to the Holy Land so that he would be at a distance of a stone's throw from it." Abu Hurairah added: "Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said: 'If I were there, I would show you his grave below the red sandhill on the side of the road.'" (Sahih Al Bukhari)
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'Abd-al Latif
06-26-2009, 10:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shoes
love_quran, for Moses' death, check out Deuteronomy 34.

As for the comparisons between Moses and Jesus, the most significant are:
  • both established covenants
  • both miracle workers
  • both knew God (the Father) face to face

as these are the features of Moses' life which make him unique among the OT prophets.

Hope this clears a couple of things up,
Shoes


The similarities between Moses and Muhammad are much more then the similarities between Moses and Jesus. To name a few they are:

- Moses and Muhammad were born with a father and mother, jesus was born without a father.
- Moses and Muhammad died a natural death, while the Muslims believe jesus was raised up to God and the christians say he died/was crucified.
- Mose came with a new law which was the Torah, Muhammad (saaws) came with a new law which was the Qur'an while jesus did not come with a new law, he came to follow the Torah.
- Moses fought against his enemies and won. Muhammad faught against his enemies and won. While jesus did not win in a wordly sense i.e. he did not fight physical battles.
- Moses and Muhammad were overall accepted by their people while Jesus was rejected.
- Moses spoke to god directly in the burning bush, Muhammad spoke to god in the journey of the ascention to Jerusulem (in arabic Israa al-Mi'raaj), ascended up through the heavens and reached a hight where only God Almighty is alone (since God Almighty is above the heavens) and spoke to god directly face to face while jesus did not speak to god directly.
- Moses and Muhammad were married while jesus never got married.

There are many other similarities between Muhammad and Moses. The Prophet that is said to resemble moses in the bible is not jesus, it is Muhammad and this is clear from the points I have listed above.
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rk9414
06-26-2009, 02:43 PM
If you are interested in learning more about Jesus, Moses, and the prophets in general from an Islamic perspective, I recommend "Stories of the Prophets" by Ibn Kathir

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Stor...n%20Kathir.pdf
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Yanal
06-26-2009, 06:47 PM
Prophet Isa(AS) was saved by Allah when he was about to die by non muslims. Right now he is in the heavens watching us await his arrival. When he does arrive insh'Allah he will destroy the false cross sign of Christianity and will convert all of them into muslims. After that he will live for 40 years marrying and having kids. After that he will die and will be put beside the grave of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) without the people who bury him knowing. It will be a strange concidence. When Prophet Isa* (AS) does come it will be one of the major signs will be accomplished when he arrives insh'Allah and that will be a warning to us from Allah.
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Shoes
06-26-2009, 10:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
The similarities between Moses and Muhammad are much more then the similarities between Moses and Jesus. To name a few they are:

- Moses and Muhammad were born with a father and mother, jesus was born without a father.
- Moses and Muhammad died a natural death, while the Muslims believe jesus was raised up to God and the christians say he died/was crucified.
- Mose came with a new law which was the Torah, Muhammad (saaws) came with a new law which was the Qur'an while jesus did not come with a new law, he came to follow the Torah.
- Moses fought against his enemies and won. Muhammad faught against his enemies and won. While jesus did not win in a wordly sense i.e. he did not fight physical battles.
- Moses and Muhammad were overall accepted by their people while Jesus was rejected.
- Moses spoke to god directly in the burning bush, Muhammad spoke to god in the journey of the ascention to Jerusulem (in arabic Israa al-Mi'raaj), ascended up through the heavens and reached a hight where only God Almighty is alone (since God Almighty is above the heavens) and spoke to god directly face to face.
- Moses and Muhammad were married while jesus never got married.

There are many other similarities between Muhammad and Moses. The Prophet that is said to resemble moses in the bible is not jesus, it is Muhammad and this is clear from the points I have listed above.
This isn't the thread for a discussion on the prophecy of Deut 18, but I'll make a few brief comments:

Firstly, that a number of the points you've made are not even unique to prophets, let alone specific prophets (eg the majority of human beings have fathers and mothers, marry and die, so these points are hardly relevant, and being a military leader is not a general feature of prophets).

Secondly, being accepted as a prophet by the people is not a unique feature of Moses' prophethood - plenty of other OT prophets fit the bill quite nicely here, Joshua for example. Also it's pretty difficult to determine whether a prophet has been overall accepted - after all Jesus was massively accepted by the Jewish poor (the majority) among others, but not the Pharisees and those in power. So what is the definition of "overall"? Generally a bit of a dodgy likeness to use I think.

Thirdly, the giving of Law. Well, Jesus does give new law (the "but I say to you" passages come to mind among others). Indeed, what is the Injil if not a list of teachings?

Finally, I'd not heard of the story you gave of Mohammed speaking face to face, so I apologise. We learn something every day. :) May I ask where this is found in Islamic sources? Thanks.

In any case, as I'm sure you're aware, the prophecy depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "your brothers", and not who can make the longest list of likenesses. Obviously the Muslim will interpret this as meaning "the Ishmaelites", but I haven't seen any other passage in the OT where this phrase has meant this (for example earlier on in chapter 18 the phrase quite clearly means "fellow Israelites" after examining verses 1 and 2). This is clearly the definitive category which determines whether or not Mohammed would be eligible to fulfill this prophecy (and if a strong case can be made based on the usage of the key phrase that the passage is referring to Ishmaelites then the case for Mohammed is strong indeed, though all evidence seems to point to the contrary as far as I can see).

That wasn't quite as brief as I had planned. :-[ But it's an important passage that deserves a thread in its own right (though I'm sure it's been discussed many times already anyway!).

Salam,
Shoes
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'Abd-al Latif
06-26-2009, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Shoes
This isn't the thread for a discussion on the prophecy of Deut 18, but I'll make a few brief comments:

Firstly, that a number of the points you've made are not even unique to prophets, let alone specific prophets (eg the majority of human beings have fathers and mothers, marry and die, so these points are hardly relevant, and being a military leader is not a general feature of prophets).
I wasn't naming the uniqueness of Prophets, I was stating the similarities between Moses and Muhammad which christians think it to be Jesus. My point was to state that Christians think that Moses was talking about Jesus when Moses said in Deuteronomy 18:18 of a prophet to be sent by God who will resemble him. What Deuteronomy 18:18 actually says is that the Prophet sent by god will be:

1) From among the Israelite's "brethren", a reference to their Ishmaelite cousins as Ishmael was the other son of Abraham who was explicitly promised to become a "great nation".

2) A prophet like unto Moses.

There were hardly any two prophets ,who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given comprehensive law code of life, both encountered their enemies and were victors in miraculous ways, both were accepted as prophets/statesmen and both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlooks not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well (e.g. the natural birth, family life and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus, who was regarded by His followers as the Son of God and not exclusively a messenger of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslim belief Jesus was).

Secondly, being accepted as a prophet by the people is not a unique feature of Moses' prophethood - plenty of other OT prophets fit the bill quite nicely here, Joshua for example. Also it's pretty difficult to determine whether a prophet has been overall accepted - after all Jesus was massively accepted by the Jewish poor (the majority) among others, but not the Pharisees and those in power. So what is the definition of "overall"? Generally a bit of a dodgy likeness to use I think.
Again, my point was to talk about the three main Prophets and they are Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and not anyone before them.

And on the contrary it's quite easy to determine whether a Prophet was overall accepted or not through simple observation: his success as achieved as a Prophet during his life, implimention of gods commands on earth and the acceptance and obdience of his people towards him as a man sent by god etc.

As far as the poor accepting the Prophet's of god then this is a common trait seen amongst the Prophets. The poor have no preconditions whereas the rich do not want to lose their authority over the people. Due to their arragonce, they reject the Prophets.

And the definition of "overall" means that a Prophet had enemies and those who opposed him, but the majorty accepted him as a man sent by god. Those who opposed him were eliminated and the Prophet became virtually a king amongst his people who established the law of god on earth. Moses and Muhammad have this similarity whereas jesus proclaimed to his people "my kingdom is not of this world" meaning he is not a ruler or king and cannot impose such authority as a king would.

Muhammad's (saaws) life is a perfect example of this. I recommend that you read his biography, a book called "Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom (The Sealed Necter)" which will illustrate this point perfectly. http://store.dar-us-salam.com/product/004b.html

Thirdly, the giving of Law. Well, Jesus does give new law (the "but I say to you" passages come to mind among others). Indeed, what is the Injil if not a list of teachings?
The Injeel (Gospel) is a confirmation of what was in the Torah.

Allah says:

“And in their footsteps, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Torah that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)” [al-Maa'idah 5:46]

This is the same in the bible where jesus said "I have come to follow the torah dot by dot, jot by jot."

He also said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17)


Finally, I'd not heard of the story you gave of Mohammed speaking face to face, so I apologise. We learn something every day. :) May I ask where this is found in Islamic sources? Thanks.
Qur'an, hadeeth, statements from his companions etc.

In any case, as I'm sure you're aware, the prophecy depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "your brothers", and not who can make the longest list of likenesses. Obviously the Muslim will interpret this as meaning "the Ishmaelites", but I haven't seen any other passage in the OT where this phrase has meant this (for example earlier on in chapter 18 the phrase quite clearly means "fellow Israelites" after examining verses 1 and 2). This is clearly the definitive category which determines whether or not Mohammed would be eligible to fulfill this prophecy (and if a strong case can be made based on the usage of the key phrase that the passage is referring to Ishmaelites then the case for Mohammed is strong indeed, though all evidence seems to point to the contrary as far as I can see).

That wasn't quite as brief as I had planned. :-[ But it's an important passage that deserves a thread in its own right (though I'm sure it's been discussed many times already anyway!).

Salam,
Shoes
It does not depend on the interpertation because the lineage of Abraham is simple. Going back to the Torah, in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 it says:

“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.”

(New International Version)

With regard to the phrase “from among their brothers” – if that prophet were to be from among the Children of Israel, it would have said, “I will raise up for them a prophet from among them.” But it says “from among their brothers” – i.e., from among the sons of Ismaa’eel (Ishamel). Ishamel is the father of the arabs because the arabs are his offspring whereas Isaac is the father of the Jews because his offspring are the jews ad both of them (i.e. Ishamel and Isaac) are the offspring of Araham. So this makes it perfectly clear that the 'brothers/brethren' here is specifically referring to the arabs and no one else.

Anyhow, this is the discover Islam section. If you would like to carry this conversation then please create a new thread in the Comparative Religion section. As for this thread then I believe it the answer has been given and the thread starter is not requiring anything else so I will be closing this thread.

If the thread starter has any objections or wants to discuss anything then please feel free to PM me.

:threadclo
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