Nigeria - Boko haram

[Thinker]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...igeria-attacks

Nigerian 'Taliban' offensive leaves 150 dead

Ustaz Mohammed Yusuf, leader of Boko Haram, which literally means "education is prohibited"

"Democracy and the current system of education must be changed otherwise this war that is yet to start would continue for long."

Again we see a strategy of denying access to standard education to be replaced with what – memorisation and rote recitation of the Qu’ran perhap?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Again we see a strategy of denying access to standard education to be replaced with what- memorisation and rote recitation of the Qu’ran perhap?

god, you like causing trouble, dont you?

['Abd-al Latif]

Again we see a strategy of denying access to standard education to be replaced with what – memorisation and rote recitation of the Qu’ran perhap?

Are you part of the Talib to know that or is it the media influence?

Really, why do you always come out with the most futile and useless comments? The most dangerous weapon is ignorance and you are a prime and golden example of that.

[The_Prince]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...igeria-attacks

Nigerian 'Taliban' offensive leaves 150 dead

Ustaz Mohammed Yusuf, leader of Boko Haram, which literally means "education is prohibited"

"Democracy and the current system of education must be changed otherwise this war that is yet to start would continue for long."

Again we see a strategy of denying access to standard education to be replaced with what – memorisation and rote recitation of the Qu’ran perhap?

whats it to you? its their country isnt it? how ironic, hypocrites as yourself always try to force people to your ways in your own country, and now you want to complain about what people want to do in their own country? get over yourself, you dont run the world.

no where in this article does it say anything about stopping standard education, these Nigerians are against YOUR WESTERN BRAINWASHED EDUCATION SYSTEM, they didnt say no more education. now offcourse you being a racist imperialist will be against this, but as i said above, you dont run the world, so get over yourself.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Muezzin]

The BBC's take

Notice how that article points out that nobody really knows who these nutters in Nigeria are.

Also:

"We could literally see it coming over the past few weeks."

There has been widespread criticism of the security forces for their perceived laxness in monitoring the group.

[nocturnal]

Guys, lets not have a go at "Thinker" for stating his opinion and hounding him out unjustly. He has a right to make his opinion in a reasonable way without offending anyone and he was simply questioning whether its worth undermining a secular education and replacing it with a system of education based on recitation and memorisation of the Qur'an without availing any other subjects that Muslims, in furtherance of their aims need to study as well, such as the Arts, Sciences etc. It's a valid point.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

^
you should read the rest of his posts.

[Afg]

Nigerian Taliban ? looooool never heard of that.

[Afg]

i mean Nigerian version of so called offensive Taliban..lol

[Ummu Sufyaan]

lol

aren't we all?

[Thinker]

god, you like causing trouble, dont you?

The reason I posted this report was because I think it’s important to highlight the importance of education for all (and by that I mean the pursuit of academia not a process of indoctrination of political or religious ideology) and an increasingly common theme running through areas governed by sharia law to prevent people from developing academic skills and steering people away from free thought.

With regards to suggesting that they aren’t trying to ban education just ‘western’ education; that is just ridiculous.

['Abd-al Latif]

and an increasingly common theme running through areas governed by sharia law to prevent people from developing academic skills and steering people away from free thought.

With regards to suggesting that they aren’t trying to ban education just ‘western’ education; that is just ridiculous.

Again, I reiterate. Why talk about things which you are ignorant of?

I dare you to go through the Qur'an and Sunnah and find me a passage where it says one must not seek education in obdience to Islam. If you can't find it, what makes you stubbornly claim that their actions are part of the Islamic Law?

Please do make an effort to learn something once in a while. As Benjamin Franklin once said, Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.

[Thinker]

Again, I reiterate. Why talk about things which you are ignorant of?

I dare you to go through the Qur'an and Sunnah and find me a passage where it says one must not seek education in obdience to Islam. If you can't find it, what makes you stubbornly claim that their actions are part of the Islamic Law?

Please do make an effort to learn something once in a while. As Benjamin Franklin once said, Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.

I am not sure what you mean by things I am ignorant of but in terms of finding Islamic text which denies education – I agree it does not exist, in fact I recall reading a verse which commanded that believers should seek out knowledge (education) . . . all that said, it still follows that those areas under sharia law do seem to be, at the very least, controlling what is taught or to whom it is taught.

[Amadeus85]

So the problem with that Nigerian guys is that they want to establish islamic law also in christian parts of this country?

[GuestFellow]

Nigerian Taliban ? looooool never heard of that.

That doesn't make sense. Taliban means student...Nigerian student???

[Ummu Sufyaan]

The reason I posted this report was because I think it’s important to highlight the importance of education for all (and by that I mean the pursuit of academia not a process of indoctrination of political or religious ideology)

In that case, why do you “lobby” for the Nigerians not to have the shariah law implemented as their academic system, and yet seem so oblivious to the fact that the education system in some African countries is based on the European education system? What is your opinion on this?

and an increasingly common theme running through areas governed by sharia law to prevent people from developing academic skills and steering people away from free thought.

but you insist on shoving your laws down their throats, even in their own countries. not thinking very freely, are we now?

So the problem with that Nigerian guys is that they want to establish islamic law also in christian parts of this country?

do you hold the same opinion to the Christians who killed the natives of Australia and enforced their laws on them, imposing their oppression, such as stealing children away from their mothers? What about the population of the American indigenous people decreasing after European (Christoper Columbus was a European christian) colonization?

[nocturnal]

These guys are in favour of thoroughly overhauling the entire education system in Nigeria. Um ul Shaheed, a secualr education doesn't necessarily reflect some sort of surreptitious effort to impose a particualr way of thinking on people. Its appropriate in the Nigerian context in that first of all, the country is not Muslim dominated, although there are a sizeable number of Muslims. Secondly, the secualr education system empowers people to think for themselves and discern using the education and knowledge imparted to them what they conceive as being most suitable in terms of ideology.

There are people today, extremists of every hue, who promulgate myriad ideologies varying hugely in their orientation, and whose ideas were all formulated and crystallised after undergoing a secular education. These militants in Nigeria are trying to alter the education system so diabolically, to the point that its modelled on the camps that the Pakistani Taliban set up in Swat for example, from which young, gullible and impressionable children some as young as nine years old, were groomed for Jihad.

No one says that an Islamic education can't conceivably be progressive, but you have to implement the instruction of a broad range of subjects, something that is incumbent upon us as Muslims, and which at one time, the Muslim ummah was renowned for.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Um ul Shaheed, a secualr education doesn't necessarily reflect some sort of surreptitious effort to impose a particualr way of thinking on people.

that is beyond the point. what i was trying to get at, is why does the education system in some African countries are depended on the European one, well atleast the British education system, as opposed to having their own? why the hypocrisy?

Secondly, the secualr education system empowers people to think for themselves and discern using the education and knowledge imparted to them what they conceive as being most suitable in terms of ideology.

it should be noted though that a lot of things that are taught in a secular education system, such as Science, maths, etc have been derived from Muslims scholars who have excelled in that particular field. so idea of having people thinking for themselves doesn't really qualify in this case, as either way the same things will be taught. that's first up.

second up, is that your going to "impose" some sot of thinking upon people anyway, so again, the "thinking for themselves" doesn't quality.

These militants in Nigeria are trying to alter the education system so diabolically, to the point that its modelled on the camps that the Pakistani Taliban set up in Swat for example, from which young, gullible and impressionable children some as young as nine years old, were groomed for Jihad.

and you have 8 year old girls in the west being "impressioned" into modeling and beauty contests!

[Thinker]

In that case, why do you “lobby” for the Nigerians not to have the shariah law implemented as their academic system, and yet seem so oblivious to the fact that the education system in some African countries is based on the European education system? What is your opinion on this?

I started this thread with some assumptions and I am open minded enough to accept the possibility that my assumptions might be wrong. My assumptions were based upon what I know about the UK education system (which is a lot) and what I know about boko haram and sharia law (which is little).

I know that the UK education system (taking aside the study of a religion) does nothing more that teach students how to read, write and mathematics all of which are unarguably apolitical and non gender, race, east/west or religion specific and other subjects based upon agreed fact without bias towards any gender, race, east/west or religion. There are lots of Muslim members of this forum who have gone through that education system. Knowing that and seeing that these Nigerian Muslims want to change the current education system in Nigeria from a ‘western’ system to an Islamic or African system I made some presumption which, as I say may be wrong. Perhaps you could help us by describing how the system of education proposed by the boko haram people would differ from the current so called ‘western’ system? Or, if that is too difficult, how a Muslim education system would differ from the current so called ‘western’ system?

[nocturnal]

No one is disputing that the west and its education system, and the culture that glamorises a celebrity culture, do have deep seated flaws, the system in the west isn't by any means perfect and infallible. And i also accept with alacrity that Islam has played an intergral role in the evolution of European civilisation and our understanding of it today through the dissemination of knowledge that was unparalleled in previous times.

When you talk about the concept of some sort of academic imposition on Nigeria as a relic of the colonial era, thats an erroneous contention Umm ul Shaheed. I was born and grew up in East Africa, i've been through the system there, and i go back often, only to read news stories of constant reviews of the education system and appeals by undiscerning nationalists to Africanize it because supposedly according to them, and i guess you, the methodology of instruction being used is some sort of instrument which perpetuates colonial era ignorance, practices and beliefs.

Yet despite demagogues clamouring for this, they opted not to change it. Rather, religious study was carefully and methodically integrated into the national curriculum and you could either study RE (religious education), IRE (Islamic religious education), CRE (Christian religious education), etc. Or if you so chose, you could not study any one. RE ostensbily covered the spectrum of the world's major religions in a concise, respectful and dispassionate manner, and that's something i truly appreciated.

Now i can't really fathom how a Boko Haram conceptualised educational system might plausibly be. If their proclamations are anything to conjecture on, then clearly we're looking at a pernicious travesty of education that will only hold back the Muslims in Nigeria, and not empower them. Explain to me how realistically, according concessions to these militants can possibly be in the interests of Muslims there and the precedent it sets in the region.

I would much rather the central government creates, administers and regulates specialist Islamic institutions which purvey a comprehensive and holistic education to the students entrusted to it, not to a rabble of zealots and their fallacious creed who would be no different from the extremist zionists in israel and their doctrine.

[Afg]

That doesn't make sense. Taliban means student...Nigerian student???

ya doesnt make sense to us. but probably makes sense to the non-Muslims, as they see Taliban as terrorists.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Or, if that is too difficult, how a Muslim education system would differ from the current so called ‘western’ system?

see below. it would be more or less the same thing considering that the fields of study, eg maths, science are originally derived from Muslims who excelled in that particular field anyway.

When you talk about the concept of some sort of academic imposition on Nigeria as a relic of the colonial era, thats an erroneous contention Umm ul Shaheed. I was born and grew up in East Africa, i've been through the system there, and i go back often, only to read news stories of constant reviews of the education system and appeals by undiscerning nationalists to Africanize it because supposedly according to them, and i guess you, the methodology of instruction being used is some sort of instrument which perpetuates colonial era ignorance, practices and beliefs.

you have complete misunderstood me. to reiterate.

that is beyond the point. what i was trying to get at, is why does the education system in some African countries are depended on the European one, well atleast the British education system, as opposed to having their own? why the hypocrisy?

i don't have problem that they do, but i was responding to Thinker's double-standard that the shariah education system shouldn't be taught and yet the education system of some African countries are dependent on an education system other than their own. why criticize the "forceful" implementation of one thing, whist ignoring an essential other.

i don't agree-and i didn't mention- that the only thing that should taught is the Shariah Law, whilst ignoring other fields of study. no i agree, this is important.