Discussion with HinduIconoclast

[Proud of Islam]

Assalamu Alaikom wa rahmatollahe wa barakatoh, sisters & brothers..


((HinduIconoclast)) is a new member in our forum & he posted a thread in the (introduce yourself) section. However, since I am still a limited member, I can’t reply in that section. Therefore, I’ll copy his thread here & you all are welcome to participate in the discussion. I hope he will see the thread here; could anyone send a private message for him to tell him about our discussion here? Because again I am a limited member & I can’t send private messages..
Hope that you, HinduIconoclast, will not be annoyed for copying your thread and discussing it here..

His thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/introduc...ed-elders.html

Written by: HinduIconoclast
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, my dear brothers, sisters, and respected elders.

I was born into a Hindu family and practiced Hinduism throughout my childhood. However, later on I began to question my faith and after some research into Christianity, I became an Evangelical Christian at age 13. After about a year-and-a-half, I began to question my beliefs even more and after some more in-depth investigation into Hinduism, I reconverted back to Hinduism. After about eight or nine months, I began to investigate Islam and after some very in-depth research, watching videos of lectures by Dr. Zakir Naik, Khalid Yasin, Bilal Philips, and Ahmed Deedat, I adapted many Islamic beliefs, but I never accepted Quranic creationism (since I went back to believing in Darwinism after I left Evangelical Christianity). After about half a year, I left this Islamic belief system and went back to Christianity, this time a less fundamentalist belief system which agreed with Darwinian evolution and aligned most-closely with the Southern Baptist Convention. A while later, after even more research into Christian doctrine and finding the Christian concept of "God is love" very troubling, I went back to Hinduism. Now I am almost 17 years old and I follow a belief system which combines Islamic theology beliefs with Hindu jursiprudence. By that I mean that I believe in One formless God who created the universe, I believe in tawheed, I refer to God as Allah, I believe that practices such as: idol-worship, anthropomorphism of Divinity, astrology, fortune telling, card-reading, palmistry, etc. should be forbidden and its practicioners punished. However, the Hindu jurisprudence comes in because I believe in cremating the dead instead of burying them, I do not abstain from eating pork, I discourage circumcision, I do not think that women should be covered up by a hijab/burqa, etc.

Thank you.

Welcome, HinduIconoclast, in our forum and I hope that you enjoy staying in this family and benefiting from their thoughts.
Let me first encourage your efforts to reach the truth in this age; it’s really great to search deeply and use your mind to think, not just emulate what the grandfathers did..

It’s great that you believe in Allah Who is the right one God Who deserves the worship alone..
Believing all the concepts of (tawheed) as you said, includes believing the complete and full attributes of Allah. Since He is THE CREATOR, THE GREAT ONE, THE ALL-KNOWING, THE JUDGE, and THE TRUTH, the religion from Him (which is Islam) is also the truth and has the complete, full and right rules. We have to believe that it’s the truth even if our minds didn’t get some facts, because this is a problem of our intelligence & understanding, not in the religion itself!

About burying dead bodies, if you think about it, it is really kind of venerating the human being. I can’t imagine the hearts that accepts to see burning the loved people! When we bury dead people, we still can see the graves, visit them, ask for mercy from Allah to them, remember that we will be like them on one day and so we have to be good Muslims in order to be happy in the afterlife.. But if there is no graves, what will be the sermon and lesson that remind us?

Actually, the biggest evidence that we have to bury dead bodies is what came in the Holy Quran about the story of Adam's two sons. We know that Adam (peace be upon him) is the father of human & he is the first human being. When his son killed, he was the first dead person, and they still don’t know what to do in this new event..
Allah said in Soorat (chapter) Al-Maeda: [5:31] GOD then sent a raven to scratch the soil, to teach him how to bury his brother's corpse. He said, "Woe to me; I failed to be as intelligent as this raven, and bury my brother's corpse." He became ridden with remorse.
Therefore, from this we can know that burying is the habit of human being since this lesson from Allah..
And if you ask yourself, HinduIconoclast, about what MOST of people do either nowadays or in the past history, and what the abnormal thing that (some) people do, you will be able to realize the fact about what of them is the habit of human being.
I would like here to emphasize that Allah is ABLE to resurrect people whatever their kind of dead bodies. If they are buried, burned, sunk .. etc all of them will be resurrected to be asked about their deeds and rewarded or punished. As the Islam teaches us, we know that after we die, and after the life here will finish, every person will be in the paradise or the hell. Allah is fair, so the death of a person doesn’t mean that he will not be punished for all his mistakes and all the bad things that he did for the others. People who were poor, or ill should have reward for their endurance, as well as people who did good things if they are believers and Muslims. The life was not created for no goal, it is not just birth and death, it doesn’t end here. Everyone will be judged according to his deeds.

Returning to the burying issue, I’ll write some scientific benefits of burying that Dr. Zakir Naik said (as I copied it from http://www.islamicvoice.com/july.2004/od.htm)

1. Components of human body present in the soil
Elements that are present in the human body are present in lesser or greater quantity in the soil. Hence it is more scientific to bury a dead body, as it easily gets decomposed and mixed in the soil.
2. No Pollution
Cremating (burning) the dead body leads to pollution of the atmosphere, which is detrimental to health and harmful for the environment. There is no such pollution caused by burying a dead body.
3. Surrounding land becomes fertile
To cremate a dead body several trees have to be chopped, which reduces the greenery and harms the environment and the ecology. When dead bodies are buried, besides the trees being saved, the surrounding land becomes fertile and it improves the environment.
4. Economical
It is expensive to cremate a dead body when tons of wood has to be burnt. Annually there is a loss of crores of rupees, only because dead bodies are cremated in India. Burying dead bodies is very cheap. It hardly costs any money.
5. Same land can be utilised for burying another body
The wood used for cremating a dead body cannot be re-utilised for cremating another dead body since it gets converted to ashes. The land used for burying a dead body can be re-utilised for burying another body after a few years since the human body gets decomposed and mixed in the soil.

However, as I think, these scientific reasons are NOT greater than the reasons that I stated above.. I still can’t imagine the emotions after burning a loved person in the fire! May Allah save us from the fire in the life and also the hell in the afterlife..
About your opinion about eating porks, circumcision & hejab, I’ll write some comments about them later insha Allah.. I need to rest a little bit ^^
Hope that the others will share their thoughts..
&
Really hope for you to see the light, understand and reach the truth in Islam :sunny:


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Charzhino]

I still can’t imagine the emotions after burning a loved person in the fire! May Allah save us from the fire in the life and also the hell in the afterlife..

Why should a dead body be ''comforted'' anyway, the soul has escaped the vehicle of the body. All that remains is a heap of skin and bones which will degrade away in any circumstance.

[AntiKarateKid]

Why should a dead body be ''comforted'' anyway, the soul has escaped the vehicle of the body. All that remains is a heap of skin and bones which will degrade away in any circumstance.

Would you be fine with a guy kicking your family member's dead body? It is after all a hunk of dead flesh.

It is a gift from God, even when you aren't using it.

[Charzhino]

Would you be fine with a guy kicking your family member's dead body? It is after all a hunk of dead flesh.

It is a gift from God, even when you aren't using it.

Kicking someones dead body on purpose is an insult for no reason. Comparing that with incincerating a dead persons body to let the soul out is completly different.

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[Proud of Islam]

Kicking someones dead body on purpose is an insult for no reason. Comparing that with incincerating a dead persons body to let the soul out is completly different.

To let the soul out?!!

Are you the ones who let the soul out? :astagfiru

If the soul was still in the body, why did the person die?

He died because his soul was taken out after a command from Allah..

Did I get what you mean by "to let the soul out"? Or do you mean something else?


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

...

Written by: HinduIconoclast...I believe in cremating the dead .... I do not think that women should be covered up by a hijab/burqa, etc.

I remember a revert story of a Hindu. His mother was very conservative . NO , she did not wear burqa but used to cover herself from head to toe.

After her death , when he ( that ex hindu) with brothers & other male relatives burnt the dead body , her clothes burnt first and all could watched the naked body . He was shocked . He thought , mom never came in front of my male cousins & other male relatives without veil but now all can watch her like this ?

It was a turning point for him , he started thinking about the way of treating the dead in other religions & finally accepted Islam :):)

Wearing clothes properly is not that bad ...after all it's a gift from God Almighty : O children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and (clothing) for beauty and clothing that guards (against evil), that is the best. This is of the communications of Allah that they may be mindful[7.26]

[Charzhino]

To let the soul out?!!

Are you the ones who let the soul out? :astagfiru

If the soul was still in the body, why did the person die?

He died because his soul was taken out after a command from Allah..

Did I get what you mean by "to let the soul out"? Or do you mean something else?

From Wikipedia:

According to Hindu traditions, the reasons for preferring to destroy the corpse by fire over burying it into ground is to induce a feeling of detachment into the freshly disembodied spirit, which will be helpful to encourage it into passing to "the other world" (the ultimate destination of the dead).

[Proud of Islam]

Muslim Woman:
I liked the story.. In our Islam, before burying the dead, it's covered by white grave clothes.. So if they were Muslims, no man will see the body of his mom!

I'll go to pray now, my sis ^^
& I'll check the discussion later..

-----

Charzhino:

From Wikipedia:

According to Hindu traditions, the reasons for preferring to destroy the corpse by fire over burying it into ground is to induce a feeling of detachment into the freshly disembodied spirit, which will be helpful to encourage it into passing to "the other world" (the ultimate destination of the dead).

If we think logically, The True God (Allah) doesn't need an encouragement from people to pass the soul to "the other world" as you posted!
And if they believe in some other false god; something needs encouragement cannot be a god!! The God should be the most powerful & the able, Who is Allah..only..


I don't know whether you, Charzhino, believe on what you copy from Wikipedia. But I think that you're just talking about others because as in your replay:

Why should a dead body be ''comforted'' anyway, the soul has escaped the vehicle of the body. All that remains is a heap of skin and bones which will degrade away in any circumstance.

You said that the soul has escaped the body & skin and bones remains.. This means that you know that the soul went out even before the burning..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

Assalamu Alaikom wa rahmatollahe wa barakatoh, sisters & brothers..

...I hope he will see the thread here; could anyone send a private message for him to tell him about our discussion here? …

I informed him in his thread about this one , hopefully he will come here :)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Cremating is bad for the atmosphere anyway and looks mad cruel...

[Charzhino]

Muslim Woman:
I liked the story.. In our Islam, before burying the dead, it's covered by white grave clothes.. So if they were Muslims, no man will see the body of his mom!

I'll go to pray now, my sis ^^
& I'll check the discussion later..

-----

Charzhino:




If we think logically, The True God (Allah) doesn't need an encouragement from people to pass the soul to "the other world" as you posted!
And if they believe in some other false god; something needs encouragement cannot be a god!! The God should be the most powerful & the able, Who is Allah..only..


I don't know whether you, Charzhino, believe on what you copy from Wikipedia. But I think that you're just talking about others because as in your replay:



You said that the soul has escaped the body & skin and bones remains.. This means that you know that the soul went out even before the burning..

Actually, reading over it now I shouldn't have said it helps the soul go. I said that because I heard it from some documentary, but it may be incorrect. I think the Hindus believe in 5 elements that make up the soul, one of them being spirit, which is different from the soul, so that last quote from wikipedia is the spirit descending, but still not sure.

[qarasz]

aSSALMU ALLIKUM.....................

ISLAM IS ALSO KNOWN AS NATURAL RELIGION.

1]HOW HE CAN SUPPORT DARWINISM....WHICH IS ALREADY A CLOSED CHAPTER..WHICH IS ABSOLUTE SCEINCE...

DARWIN SAID..LIVING THING GENERATED FROM GRAIN WHICH IS NON-LIVING....WHICH IS WRONG&

THEORY OF EVOLUTOION IS ALSO WRONG....(refer atlas of creation -harun yahya)


2] BURIAL =man is made out of mud....he should go to mud

3] ITS CLEARLY KNOWN THAT QUARN IS REVELATION OF ALLAH.

HE DOESNT NEED DEPEND OTHER BOOKS.../RELIGION

JAZAK ALLAH GHAIR

[HinduIconoclast]

Hindus bury their dead for two main practical reasons.
1. because land where people are buried cannot be reused where as the cremated ashes of a body can be spread anywhere (depending on the wishes of the deceased)
2. in an area where wood was cut down to build a funeral pyre the area would become deforested for further use

A religious reason would be that of the agnihotra. The agnihotra was a Vedic fire ritual/sacrifice (yajna) that was the only ritual that was supposed to be performed by the man of the house twice a day. This great importance given to fire probably led to or lent credit to the practice of cremation in Hindu India.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace;

... This great importance given to fire probably led to or lent credit to the practice of cremation in Hindu India.

why fire is so important for Hindus ? Does their holy book commands so ? If u have time , pl. explain Vedic fire ritual/sacrifice

[HinduIconoclast]

Salaam/Peace;

why fire is so important for Hindus ? Does their holy book commands so ? If u have time , pl. explain Vedic fire ritual/sacrifice

Yes, the Vedas tell Hindus that fire should be worshiped, etc. In fact, of the Vedic deities, Agni (fire god) is second only to Indra (king of heaven and the rain god) in popularity, veneration, and the amount of times that he is mentioned.

And the Hindu idea of worshiping nature was embodied by such Vedic deities who were each assigned to a different department (rain, fire, storms, sun, moon, wind, water, planets, etc.).

[Proud of Islam]

..... This great importance given to fire probably led to or lent credit to the practice of cremation in Hindu India.

In Islam, we consider fire as creation like any other creation that Allah created..
Some of what is in the Holy Quran about it:

Allah says in (Ya seen) chapter:
[36:80] He is the One who creates for you, from the green trees, fuel which you burn for light.


Allah says in (Al-Waaqe'ah) chapter:
[56:71] Have you noted the fire you ignite?
[56:72] Did you initiate its tree, or did we?
[56:73] We rendered it a reminder, and a useful tool for the users.
[56:74] You shall glorify the name of your Lord, the Great.



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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

Yes ProudOfIslam, that is a very good point.

The problem with the Hindus is that anything which logical people like us might take as a gift from God (light, the sun, water, etc.) because of its great importance to life, is seen by the Hindus as God himself. And since they believe that fire is God, they use their god to set their dead to rest.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Yes, the Vedas tell Hindus that fire should be worshiped,

I heard lecture of Dr. Zakir . He said Hindus holiest book Vedas tell that there is only one God. So , how come the same book says fire should be worshipped ??? By any chance , it's a mistranslation / misquote ???

[HinduIconoclast]

Salaam/Peace

I heard lecture of Dr. Zakir . He said Hindus holiest book Vedas tell that there is only one God. So , how come the same book says fire should be worshipped ??? By any chance , it's a mistranslation / misquote ???

That is true, but the Hindus believe in one God in many forms. And those forms would be in the natural elements like fire. But the Yajur Veda also speaks about how only God is to be worshiped. These inconsistencies arise because the Vedas were from different authors, not by one man like the Qur'an was.

Dr. Naik also points out that Muslims believe everything is God's and Hindus believe that everything is God - and that is the major difference in the actual doctrine.

[Proud of Islam]

That is true, but the Hindus believe in one God in many forms. .......
Dr. Naik also points out that Muslims believe everything is God's and Hindus believe that everything is God - and that is the major difference in the actual doctrine.

It’s really a very important point…

Allah says in the Holy Quran(to make us believe on just One God Who is Him):
[23:91] GOD has never begotten a son. Nor was there ever any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. GOD be glorified; far above their claims.

I can see from your replies, HinduIconoclast, that you don’t believe in what Hindus say especially because you said in your first thread that you believe in (tawheed) & also I read your reply about the logic in the true Islamic beliefs, so I am really wondering about why you still believe in cremating the dead although in (tawheed) we know that the truth is one God, Allah, and He is the able to take out the soul at a specified time for everyone, without the need to burn the body by people. & Allah taught the human being how to deal with the dead bodies as I posted in the Adam’s sons story in the Holy Quran..

If you believe in that as I expected from your replies, let us move to discuss the other issues about eating porks, circumcision & hejab ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

I only like cremation for the practical reasons and not the religious reasons, but if I agreed with other things I could accept it also.

As for circumcision, hijab, etc., I have heard the responses about them from da'ees but I just do not agree wit them, but if you think you can convince me otherwise, please go ahead sister.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

What are those reasons that you think are practical?

[HinduIconoclast]

Burial uses up land that could be otherwise used for something else so cremation does not waste land in this way.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Is that it?

Cremation causes pollution because your constantly burning dead bodies. You're also wasting a lot of wood to burn someone. Imagine how many trees you must be cutting for that. Also you have people dumping the cremated bodies in lakes and things, which is also unsanitary. Burying the dead doesnt cause any damage to anything.

[HinduIconoclast]

But if you are using a modern incinerator, you are not using wood for burning. Anyway this has got me very interested so I am going to do some more in-depth research on this subject on my own.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

But if you are using a modern incinerator, you are not using wood for burning.

We all know pollution is bad for the environment. We have an incinerator about 30 mins away from our house. Anyways, it still a cause for pollution with all that smoke flying into the air you breathe. God knows what is flying with it.

Anyway this has got me very interested so I am going to do some more in-depth research on this subject on my own.

Good idea.

[HinduIconoclast]

OK, thank you.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

OK, thank you.

I'm sure someone could or would give u a proper reason for it in terms of Islam...but that's just something I can think of reality based.

You're welcome :)

[Proud of Islam]

About the circumcision, HinduIconoclast, let me first tell you that when people were informed about it at the days of the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him), some of them were already familiar with this, but for those Muslims who were not, how did they accept it, knowing the fact that some of them didn’t know the medical benefits of it, at that time?
They believe in Allah..
They believe that He is the Creator of human..
So, He is the best one Who knows what is beneficial for His creations..

If you search in Google about this topic, you’ll find lots & lots of doctors discussing the benefits of it, and some of the English discussions were written by doctors who are not Muslims, but they realized the importance of circumcision..

Check these:
http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html

http://www.missionislam.com/health/c...sionislam.html




And here: http://www.medicirc.org/
You can click on each age, and read the benefits in that age..


Sorry for putting links, but sure the doctors are better than me in discussing this topic ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Brasco]

circumcision is really advantageous :) Lots of bacterium begins to settle down under the pprepuce. Once there was a school mate of mine who told me that he was cumcised, so I asked him if he was muslim or jew, he said that he had constriction of the foreskin :S So, we see how advantageous the circumcision for men is :)

[Brasco]

About the circumcision, HinduIconoclast, let me first tell you that when people were informed about it at the days of the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him), some of them were already familiar with this, but for those Muslims who were not, how did they accept it, knowing the fact that some of them didn’t know the medical benefits of it, at that time?
They believe in Allah..
They believe that He is the Creator of human..
So, He is the best one Who knows what is beneficial for His creations..

If you search in Google about this topic, you’ll find lots & lots of doctors discussing the benefits of it, and some of the English discussions were written by doctors who are not Muslims, but they realized the importance of circumcision..

Check these:
http://www.circinfo.com/benefits/bmc.html

http://www.missionislam.com/health/c...sionislam.html




And here: http://www.medicirc.org/
You can click on each age, and read the benefits in that age..


Sorry for putting links, but sure the doctors are better than me in discussing this topic ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

Subhana'allah! Sis, these incidents are kinda horrible to think of :S Alhamdulillah, I am circumcised!!

[HinduIconoclast]

The Qur'an does not mention circumcision at all, only the Hadiths do.

Also, please visit this site:
http://www.quranicpath.com/verses/circumcision.html

[Brasco]

This is a sect based only on the qur'an! they do not consider ahadith!


We have to obey Allah ta'ala and the messenger peace be upon him, how can we obey the messenger peace be upon him without consider the ahadidh??!!

O you, those who have faith, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you dispute over a thing, then return it to Allah and the Messenger, if you have faith in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more beautiful of interpretation.

Surah an-Nisa 59


Muhammad, peace be upon him, has not only come to deliver the Qur'an to mankind but also to explain it. Again we have to consider the ahadith!

By clear proofs and scriptures, and We have sent down on you (O Prophet) the Reminder, that you can explain to humankind what is sent down for them and in order that they may reflect.

Surah an-Nah 44

If a matter has been determined by Allah ta'ala and the Messenger, peace be upon him, there is nothing to do but to obey!

And it is not ever for a faithful man or a faithful woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair that there is any choice for them in their affair, and who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, so he is indeed wandering far astray.

Surah al-Ahzab 36

[HinduIconoclast]

Please go back to the site and read about the scientific/practical reasons why circumcision is now opposed by many doctors and medical authorities because those are my reasons for opposing it.

[Brasco]

Please go back to the site and read about the scientific/practical reasons why circumcision is now opposed by many doctors and medical authorities because those are my reasons for opposing it.

I've read those quotes :) Are there not also pro-circumcision parties? :) read the scientific and practical facts which the sister posted! ;D

[HinduIconoclast]

Those are refuted in the site whose link I posted. It seems as neither of us will budge on this issue.

[Proud of Islam]

The Qur'an does not mention circumcision at all, only the Hadiths do.

Also, please visit this site:
http://www.quranicpath.com/verses/circumcision.html

Let me tell you the position of the Hadiths (Sunna). You need to know that there is a group of people who called themselves ( Quranic people ) and the site that you posted was written by them. They don’t believe in anything in Hadeeths; they just take what is in the Holy Quran, and say that the Hadiths are wrong! It’s actually like an artifice to make wrong thoughts for true Muslims..

There were many meetings and symposia among ( Shaikhs ) to warn from this group and make evidences that we have to obey what is in Hadiths as well..

If this group really takes what is in the holy Quran, they’ll read what Allah said in the Holy Quran:

[4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.


[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.

The Hadiths are one of the following:
1) assuring of what is in the Holy Quran..
Like the Quran talked about drinking toddy, and then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) emphasized this issue (exactly the same as the Holy Quran)..

2) explaining what is in the Holy Quran..
The Hadiths explains lots & lots, and we can’t take just the Holy Quran. I don’t know how this group of people can pray without the Hadiths! Because in the holy Quran there is just the command of praying, but then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) explained exactly how to pray & what are the actions & what shall we say. Or for example, about cleanness, marriage, the specific amounts of money in (Zakaa), and others are in Quran without details and the Prophet (pbuh) explained the details..

3) informing about issues that are not in the Holy Quran..
Such as that the killer can’t take from legacy and many many other things including our issue, circumcision..

& to insure that we have to take these from the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), let me ask you, is it logical that Allah sends a messenger who says wrong things? :astagfiru

Allah says:
[53:2] Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
[53:3] Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
[53:4] It was divine inspiration.
[53:5] Dictated by the Most Powerful.

This insures that we have to take all what in the Hadiths like what is in Quran. The Quran is Allah’s speech.. Hadeeths are Mohammad’s speech which is inspiration from Allah, so both Quran & Hadeeths are like from the same source..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum my brother,

You are making a mistake, you are saying the Hadeeths are here to complet the Quran is that ??

What do you understand in this verse bellow :


Sourate 6

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

38. There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

Do you think that Allah SWT forget many things in the Quran ?


Assalam aleykoum brother, ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us in the right path.

[Proud of Islam]

Please go back to the site and read about the scientific/practical reasons why circumcision is now opposed by many doctors and medical authorities because those are my reasons for opposing it.

Those are refuted in the site whose link I posted. It seems as neither of us will budge on this issue.

We will reach the truth, if we think logically, step by step :sunny:

If you want a decision from the doctors:
from my links & your link we can found that:

Doctors & scientists didn’t agree; some of them said that circumcision is beneficial & some of them said that it’s not beneficial (as you posted)..

So from them, we can’t decide since we have contradictive opinions.. And it's natural since the minds are different and their intelligences are not the same; human can make mistakes & say wrong things..

But, Mohammad (peace be upon him) commanded circumcision..
Mohammad (peace be upon him) is the messenger of Allah & says inspiration from Allah..
& Allah Has the complete and full attributes & His knowledge is without any wrong thing, He is THE CREATOR, THE GREAT ONE, THE WISE, THE ALL-KNOWING, THE JUDGE & THE TRUTH (these are some of Allah's 99 names)..


So, which group of doctors shall we believe?


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

Assalam aleykoum my brother,

You are making a mistake, you are saying the Hadeeths are here to complet the Quran is that ??

What do you understand in this verse bellow :


Sourate 6

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

38. There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

Do you think that Allah SWT forget many things in the Quran ?


Assalam aleykoum brother, ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us in the right path.

You are right, thetruth2009, but I am also right :sunny:

Allah says (as you posted):
[6:38] Nothing have we omitted from the Book

& in the Book, Allah also says:
[16:44] And we sent down to you this message, to explain clearly for the people everything that is sent down to them

This is exactly as in my point number 2: explaining what is in the Holy Quran..


& Allah says:
[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.

This is exactly as in my point number 3: informing about issues that are not in the Holy Quran..

Is there anything omitted from the Book? No, because even those issues that the Prophet Mohammad said to people, the Holy Quran told us that the Prophet (pbuh) will say them & we have to obey him.. as I worte in the verses above..

So, as Allah said: [6:38] Nothing have we omitted from the Book

Hope you got it, brother :sunny:



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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

But if circumcision is so beneficial, why weren't boys born without foreskin?
"He Who has made everything which He has created MOST GOOD: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay." - Qur'an 32:7

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

It's like saying why do we smell and have to take a shower or why do we have to use the toilet once in a while...it's called hygiene :)

[Charzhino]

HinuIconolast, just on a side note, how much of the Vedas have you read? I'm asking here because I cannot PM.

[HinduIconoclast]

But circumcision is a pre-emptive thing used to supposedly prevent future infection, etc. That would be like me saying that I might get an infection in my foot so I should cut it off beforehand.

[HinduIconoclast]

HinuIconolast, just on a side note, how much of the Vedas have you read? I'm asking here because I cannot PM.

I have read bits and pieces of the Vedas, not really enough to be an expert or anything like that but I could probably answer questions you have about the Vedas after some cross-referncing or using what knowledge I have.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^That made me laugh lol :X Anyway I dont have a specific answer for you. Maybe someone else can verify it :)

[HinduIconoclast]

Yeah its a valid point but can also be taken in jest. Anyway, I think we are going to agree to disagree on this one.

[Proud of Islam]

But if circumcision is so beneficial, why weren't boys born without foreskin?
"He Who has made everything which He has created MOST GOOD: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay." - Qur'an 32:7

It's like saying why do we smell and have to take a shower or why do we have to use the toilet once in a while...it's called hygiene :)

It’s also like if you say I’ll not remove the excrescent hair in the body, because it had been created like this, so it’s beneficial!

A simple answer for your question; human have lacks, because the only One Who Has the full and complete attributes is the God, Allah..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

That is a good point but if its not causing any problems, why remove it?

[Charzhino]

I have read bits and pieces of the Vedas, not really enough to be an expert or anything like that but I could probably answer questions you have about the Vedas after some cross-referncing or using what knowledge I have.

Well recently I have come across Prophecies of the Vedas and Bhavisyha Purana which predict accuratley the coming of people like Buddha, Jesus, Guru Nanak and Mohammed. What is your opinion on these prophecies, authentic or corrupted?

[Proud of Islam]

That is a good point but if its not causing any problems, why remove it?

because as I said previously :sunny: :

We will reach the truth, if we think logically, step by step :sunny:

If you want a decision from the doctors:
from my links & your link we can found that:

Doctors & scientists didn’t agree; some of them said that circumcision is beneficial & some of them said that it’s not beneficial (as you posted)..

So from them, we can’t decide since we have contradictive opinions.. And it's natural since the minds are different and their intelligences are not the same; human can make mistakes & say wrong things..

But, Mohammad (peace be upon him) commanded circumcision..
Mohammad (peace be upon him) is the messenger of Allah & says inspiration from Allah..
& Allah Has the complete and full attributes & His knowledge is without any wrong thing, He is THE CREATOR, THE GREAT ONE, THE WISE, THE ALL-KNOWING, THE JUDGE & THE TRUTH (these are some of Allah's 99 names)..


So, which group of doctors shall we believe?


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

Ok ok, I'm going to look into this topic further in my own research and I'll get back to you if I change my stance.

[Proud of Islam]

Ok, and about eating porks & hejab, I'll write about them later insha Allah..

I need to rest! the problem with me in these discussions is the language.. It takes effort from me to express what I know, in a second language..

Anyway, we'll complete our discussion soon insha Allah ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

Sounds good, I look forward to it.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I have read bits and pieces of the Vedas, not really enough to be an expert or anything like that but I could probably answer questions you have about the Vedas after some cross-referncing or using what knowledge I have.

we had a thread here on questions about Hinduism . This was closed because the hindu participant did not like to continue . If u have time & patience ( to tolerate offensive questions u may recieve there ) , then we may ask bro Woodrow or other mod to re- start that thread . I have also some questions about Hinduism but discussion might be off topic here.

[HinduIconoclast]

I would love to answer any questions you have about Hinduism. Please post another post on this thread with a link to the new thread and I will see what I can do. :D

[Charzhino]

I would love to answer any questions you have about Hinduism. Please post another post on this thread with a link to the new thread and I will see what I can do. :D

You get my question beofre in this thread? I think you may have missed it

[HinduIconoclast]

I have read bits and pieces of the Vedas, not really enough to be an expert or anything like that but I could probably answer questions you have about the Vedas after some cross-referncing or using what knowledge I have.

I'm pretty sure I already answered it (this is a previous post which I guess you didn't see Charzhino).

[Charzhino]

I'm pretty sure I already answered it (this is a previous post which I guess you didn't see Charzhino).

See post 50

[HinduIconoclast]

Well recently I have come across Prophecies of the Vedas and Bhavisyha Purana which predict accuratley the coming of people like Buddha, Jesus, Guru Nanak and Mohammed. What is your opinion on these prophecies, authentic or corrupted?

Ahh, I see. My mistake.

What you have to know first of all about the Puranas is that they are not very authentic. If you actually go and read some of the Puranas you will see what I'm talking about. The Puranas were created much later than the Vedas were (in the era of the predominance of the Puranic deities in the Hindu pantheon which is the current time still). So, most Hindus who are somewhat knowledgeable about their scriptures do not take the Puranas as being authentic scriptures.

As for the purported Vedic prophecies, I have looked through those (because I have also heard about them before) and to me they are not very definite in describing Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) much at all.

Also, the Vedas never mention any place outside ancient India (from Afghanistan in the east to Southeast Asia in the east and the Himalayas in the north to Sri Lanka in the south) - boundaries which Arabia falls outside of. Therefore, I don't think that any of the Vedic prophecies that are purported to be about Propeht Muhammad (pbuh) are actually about him.

Also, to those Muslims who do believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was prophecied in the Vedas (I'm not talking baout the Puranas now because they are inauthentic), I have a question to ask: How come no one has come forward with prophecies in the Vedas that talk about Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses (may peace be upon them all)? - If you do have such prophecies, I would like to read them.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, assalam aleykoum my sister,

I totally agree for what you said, we live in very dangerous time, we have to look after the truth step by step.

We have to exchange evry one can post his point of view, that is the freedom speech ( I had some of my post deleted )

Let me tell you the position of the Hadiths (Sunna). You need to know that there is a group of people who called themselves ( Quranic people ) and the site that you posted was written by them. They don’t believe in anything in Hadeeths; they just take what is in the Holy Quran, and say that the Hadiths are wrong! It’s actually like an artifice to make wrong thoughts for true Muslims..

Can you tell me about the Quranic, if they pray 5 times a day like you or not ? if they follow only the Quran do you think they are astray or not ?

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sourate 3


103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.


There were many meetings and symposia among ( Shaikhs ) to warn from this group and make evidences that we have to obey what is in Hadiths as well..

Allah SWT never said the Hadiths are protected, only the Quran is protected is it true or not ?


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sourate 15

9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).



If this group really takes what is in the holy Quran, they’ll read what Allah said in the Holy Quran:

[4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.


[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.


I agree we have to follow our prophete Mohamed SWS, but is not with us nowdays, we have two books :

The Quran = is protected, can bring a person from the darkness to light, when you read some verse you have to bow low

The Hadiths : wich can not bring a person from darkness to light, can not guide like the Quran do , we do not bow low like the Quran.

Some people not you my sister compare the Quran to Hadiths, or they put it equal or they think is protected, we are always talking about Hadiths and we forget the Quran, as the prophete Mohamed SWS said.


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 25


30. "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."


B]The Hadiths are one of the following:[/B]
1) assuring of what is in the Holy Quran..
Like the Quran talked about drinking toddy, and then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) emphasized this issue (exactly the same as the Holy Quran)..

2) explaining what is in the Holy Quran..
The Hadiths explains lots & lots, and we can’t take just the Holy Quran. I don’t know how this group of people can pray without the Hadiths! Because in the holy Quran there is just the command of praying, but then the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) explained exactly how to pray & what are the actions & what shall we say. Or for example, about cleanness, marriage, the specific amounts of money in (Zakaa), and others are in Quran without details and the Prophet (pbuh) explained the details..


My sister and all of you can you tell me how did you learn to pray ?

You mean people they waited about 200 years for BUKHARI to pray when he compilated Hadiths ???

Do you know the prayers were gave to our Prophete Mohamed SWS from Allah SWT :

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 53

10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.


Do you think when you were young you read the Hadiths to learn to pray, I think on that time you did not read ? even by reading without pictures its hard to learn to pray no ???

I have not seen any pictures in Hadiths ? I beleive that we have to pray 5 times a day not worry.

Can you bring me the five Hadiths with the way to pray ? I want to see them, because I have not read them I mean the way we have to pray for :

1) Fajr
2) Dohor
3) Asr
4) Magrib
5) Isha


3) informing about issues that are not in the Holy Quran..
Such as that the killer can’t take from legacy and many many other things including our issue, circumcision..

& to insure that we have to take these from the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), let me ask you, is it logical that Allah sends a messenger who says wrong things? :astagfiru

The prophete Mohamed SWS follow only the revelation nothing else, I agree with you he can not be in contradiction with the Hadiths.

But I have found many hadiths in contradiction with Hadits how its possible ? What I understand those Haditsh in contradiction can not be told by our prophete Mohamed SWS .


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 69

43. (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.

44. And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,

45. We should certainly seize him by his right hand,

46. And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:

47. Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).

Allah says:
[53:2] Your friend (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
[53:3] Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
[53:4] It was divine inspiration.
[53:5] Dictated by the Most Powerful.

This insures that we have to take all what in the Hadiths like what is in Quran. The Quran is Allah’s speech.. Hadeeths are Mohammad’s speech which is inspiration from Allah, so both Quran & Hadeeths are like from the same source..

Sorry my sisters I will not take all the Hadiths, how many centuries past after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS, how can I be sure thet Hadiths are not lies upon our prophete mohamed SWS, how I can be sure the authentic message reach us after 14 centuries, I do not want to go to hell, I ask allah SWT to protect us, Amine.

Allah SWT give me a brain, I have to use it, it not because its an authentic Hadiths that I have to swich off my brain and follow it like a SHEEP.

Do you know the Hadiths of our prophete MOhamed SWS, which say if somebody say even a lie about me and spread it to people by saying it was told by the Prophete SWS ??? that person has to prepare a place in hell, Allah INJINA insh'allah, Ameen.


I hope my post will not be deleted again.

Ask allah SWT to forgive us and guide us to the TRUTH.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers in islam and humanity.


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Charzhino]

Ahh, I see. My mistake.

What you have to know first of all about the Puranas is that they are not very authentic. If you actually go and read some of the Puranas you will see what I'm talking about. The Puranas were created much later than the Vedas were (in the era of the predominance of the Puranic deities in the Hindu pantheon which is the current time still). So, most Hindus who are somewhat knowledgeable about their scriptures do not take the Puranas as being authentic scriptures.

As for the purported Vedic prophecies, I have looked through those (because I have also heard about them before) and to me they are not very definite in describing Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) much at all.

Also, the Vedas never mention any place outside ancient India (from Afghanistan in the east to Southeast Asia in the east and the Himalayas in the north to Sri Lanka in the south) - boundaries which Arabia falls outside of. Therefore, I don't think that any of the Vedic prophecies that are purported to be about Propeht Muhammad (pbuh) are actually about him.

Also, to those Muslims who do believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was prophecied in the Vedas (I'm not talking baout the Puranas now because they are inauthentic), I have a question to ask: How come no one has come forward with prophecies in the Vedas that talk about Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses (may peace be upon them all)? - If you do have such prophecies, I would like to read them.

Oh, thanks for the response. The Jesus prophecy I read was in the Bhavisyha Purana. As for Mohammed, I think it is mentioned that he will arise from the land of Arabia. The prophecies relating to Guru Nanak and Buddha are in one of the 4 Vedas, can't remember which one.
Also, I have also read that characters such as Abraham and Moses are foretold in the Vedas, with Abrahaam as brahma and his wife sarswati (sarah) and Manu as Moses.

[Proud of Islam]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, assalam aleykoum my sister,

I totally agree for what you said, we live in very dangerous time, we have to look after the truth step by step.

Wa Alikom Al salam, brother.. Okey let's go step by step :sunny:

Can you tell me about the Quranic, if they pray 5 times a day like you or not ? if they follow only the Quran do you think they are astray or not ?

I don’t know a lot about them, because I just read some things about them & read the replies for their thoughts. They have a lot of changes in important basics of Islam like the prayers! because they don’t read any Hadith & don’t believe them.. I saw one of them is calling in his website all the scholars from all countries to listen to him! Are all Muslims wrong and his anomalous opinions are right? Will we listen to him or to the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him)? This guy knows that he is talking about dangerous bases in Islam, so he created a section in his forum for (tirades) !! He said that he knows that all of the Ummah will strongly disagree with him, so he created this section for them!
Some of these Quranic reject all the Hadiths, and some of them reject some Hadiths in order to reject the commands that are not in the Holy Quran, but in these Hadiths.

I think (& I hope) that you are not from these; I think the only thing that wonders you is that the Hadiths are not protected.. I am sure brother that you know the position of the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) whose speech is inspiration from Allah swt & you are not like some of Quranic who reached dangerous levels when talking about Mohammad (peace be upon him)!

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 3
103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.

This verse is very great, as all the Holy Quran is, I am not with making divides among Muslims, I strongly disagree with that..
But if a group of people are changing many important basics in Islam (like the prayers & other things) because they don’t believe the Hadiths, we should protect Islam, shouldn’t we?

Do you know that the prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) told Muslims that this group will appear?

Ahmad, Abu Dawood and al-Haakim reported with a saheeh isnaad from al-Miqdaam that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

"Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.' But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids." (Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-?Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132)

May Allah swt keeps us away from this group, ameen ..

Allah SWT never said the Hadiths are protected, only the Quran is protected is it true or not ?
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 15
9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

... how many centuries past after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS, how can I be sure thet Hadiths are not lies upon our prophete mohamed SWS, how I can be sure the authentic message reach us after 14 centuries, I do not want to go to hell, I ask allah SWT to protect us, Amine.

Yes, you are right, Hadiths are not protected.. But think of the meaning of protecting the Holy Quran. It is protected that there is no single word that was changed, there is no single change in the verses or chapters order, there is no any change.. Allah Akbar! It’s a promise from Allah swt as you posted..
However, for Hadiths they are not protected because not all the Prophet’s speech were written as the Holy Quran is & in Hadiths there might be change in synonymous words; but this small wording change is not in the Holy Quran at all.
However, shall this make us don’t believe in Hadiths, at all? Why Hadiths can’t reach us correctly? Why we believe in many scientific and historical things that reached us, & don’t believe in Hadiths? What is the history of the countries & civilizations? It had been for centuries ago, but it reached us, right?
Let me tell you a small example; we have something called (Sanad of memorizing the Holy Quran). It is given for anyone who memorize all the Quran without any mistake. It is a document or a certification proving that the person has memorized the Quran, and his teacher was: his father (for example), & his father memorized the Quran from: (the name of his teacher), this teacher memorized the Quran from…………., This memorized the Quran from the Sahabi: (his name), this memorized the Quran from the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), and the prophet pbuh listened it from Jebreel (peace be upon him) & finally Jebreel (pbuh) from Allah swt..
So, whenever a person memorizes the Quran, his teacher copy the document for him & add his name to the series..
Do you believe this? :sunny:
Most of the scholars have it; & it’s till nowadays, I saw it with my grandfather & my uncle.. & even some people who are not Arabic have it..
This is just a document to certify memorizing, is it more important than Hadiths? Hadiths also reached us by a series of reporters first, and later Hadiths were written & classified in books, and these books reached us..
This is normal as what happened for the medical or historical books for example!

The reporters & scholars who narrated Hadiths & wrote and classified them in books paid considerable efforts to check the Hadiths, check the reliability & memory of their reporters, check whether the series is complete to the prophet (pbuh) without any interruption in the chain or not, check the language of the text whether its perfect as the speech of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), check the number of people who narrated each Hadith, and then depending on these conditions (and also other conditions) they classified them to groups, and one of them is the (Sahih) which is defiantly right (& some of the Sahih books are Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim). One of the conditions for example for a Hadith to be Sahih is that the chain of reporters (which might be several pages); all of these reporters should be reliable & have good memory; if they just doubt in one of them; the Hadith is not Sahih. There are other groups in the classification which I can’t state now, because every one has specific conditions to be Sahih or another type.

Great scholars did this classification in books after considerable efforts. It is a science like any other type of sciences, & you can search about it. People spend years to know all the facts of the Hadiths’ Science. After the death of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh), Muslims paid considerable efforts in different stages; one of them was called (the Golden Age of Hadiths) when the Hadiths are classified and written in books. Our age now is when everything is available for us in very reliable books; we can just study the science of that classification, or study the Hadiths themselves. If you read the biography of Bukhari for example, you’ll be amazed by his considerable efforts. Just quick examples, he spent 16 years writing his book, he traveled to lots & lots of countries to check the Hadiths from the reporters themselves, he took Hadiths from 1080 people who all people say that they are faithful in their speech & deeds, and for example, when he traveled to a man to take a Hadith from him, he noticed that he is not merciful with his camel, so he return back without taking the Hadith because as his saw, this person is not reliable! Or if someone rarely make jokes; Hadiths from him are rejected! because again this person considered to be unreliable. Bukhari wake up many times during the night to complete his work. One of his students said: I haven’t ever see a person like Al Bukhari; it’s like he was created for Hadiths science only! But also there were lots of other scholars of Hadiths and reporters and one of them (I don’t remember his name) sometimes put cake in water & drink it because he doesn’t have time to eat! They spend all their lives for the Hadiths because they know the importance of them as Allah swt said in many verses as I posted previously. They knew that the Quran is protected by Allah & all people have one right book, so they care about Hadiths to show what is right and what is not. They wanted to keep Hadiths & write them in books in order to reach the coming ages. Then, can we simply say that we don’t believe Hadiths?!

=>>> continue in the next post ^^



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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

agree we have to follow our prophete Mohamed SWS, but is not with us nowdays,

If you say that it’s not for nowadays; the Holy Quran is defiantly for every place at any time; right? It’s from Allah swt, & all people have to obey the commands included on it, not just people who were with the prophet (pbuh), right?
Okey, Allah swt in the Holy Quran says the following:

[16:44] And we sent down to you this message, to explain clearly for the people everything that is sent down to them

[4:65] But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.

[24:63] Do not treat the messenger's requests as you treat each others' requests. GOD is fully aware of those among you who sneak away using flimsy excuses. Let them beware - those who disobey his orders - for a disaster may strike them, or a severe retribution.

[4:69] Those who obey GOD and the messenger belong with those blessed by GOD - the prophets, the saints, the martyrs, and the righteous. These are the best company.

[24:54] Say, "Obey GOD, and obey the messenger." If they refuse, then he is responsible for his obligations, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver (the message).

[4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.

[59:7] take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.

As any other commands, these are for all Muslims, not only who were with the prophet (pbuh); so we have to obey the messenger (pbuh) even nowadays..

we have two books :

The Quran = is protected, can bring a person from the darkness to light, when you read some verse you have to bow low

The Hadiths : wich can not bring a person from darkness to light, can not guide like the Quran do , we do not bow low like the Quran.

Some people not you my sister compare the Quran to Hadiths, or they put it equal or they think is protected,

They are not equal, we don’t bow low when reading Hadiths as you said, but sure they guide since Hadiths are explanations for what is in the Holy Quran.. And they are the speech of the messenger of Allah swt..
Hadiths guide; Allah says:

[42:52] Surely, you guide in a straight path.

[23:73] Most assuredly, you are inviting them to a straight path.

[7:158] Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messenger, the gentile prophet, who believes in GOD and His words. Follow him, that you may be guided.

[24:54] If you obey him, you will be guided.

You know, there are many verses telling us to obey the prophet Mohammad (pbuh); The commands in the Holy Quran are for all people in all centuries.. Allah swt knows everything that we will think about and so tell us the truth in the Holy Quran..

we are always talking about Hadiths and we forget the Quran, as the prophete Mohamed SWS said.
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 25
30. "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

No we shouldn’t be like this at all! Do you understand that if we take Hadiths it means that we forget the Quran? No, at all. We know the very high position of the Holy Quran since it’s the speech of or God, Allah, but when we take Hadiths we are obeying commands in the Holy Quran!
All the scholars of Hadiths memorized first the Holy Quran & studied it very very well, because one of the conditions for Hadiths is that there shouldn’t be any contradiction at all in Hadiths when comparing to the Holy Quran. If so, then the Hadith is rejected because it’s surely a lie & the prophet pbuh didn’t say it..


=>>> continue in the next post ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

My sister and all of you can you tell me how did you learn to pray ?

You mean people they waited about 200 years for BUKHARI to pray when he compilated Hadiths ???

Do you know the prayers were gave to our Prophete Mohamed SWS from Allah SWT :
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Sourate 53
10. So did ((Allah)) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.


Do you think when you were young you read the Hadiths to learn to pray, I think on that time you did not read ? even by reading without pictures its hard to learn to pray no ???

I have not seen any pictures in Hadiths ? I beleive that we have to pray 5 times a day not worry.

Can you bring me the five Hadiths with the way to pray ? I want to see them, because I have not read them I mean the way we have to pray for :

1) Fajr
2) Dohor
3) Asr
4) Magrib
5) Isha

I learned how to pray from my parents & at school; they taught me.. And then when I grew up, I read about it deeply in the Sunna books.. Everyone was taught the prayers from another person, but where was the original source? He is Allah swt, to Jebreel pbuh to Mohammad pbuh to his companions (Sahaba), to their children, to us.. The prayers didn’t stop at any century since it was commanded by Allah swt..
People didn’t wait for Bukhari to write the Hadiths as you asked; but people after him, like us, found the detailed Hadiths in his book and other books as well, especially those whose families are not Muslims; how can they learn how to pray if they don’t read the Hadiths or the explanation of that Hadiths from Muslim teachers?
The pictures that you talked about & which exist nowadays to ease the praying learning, are nothing more than visualizing what the prophet Mohammad pbuh said in the Hadiths..

For your request for Hadiths about prayers, as you know, Sunna is whatever the prophet Mohammad pbuh said or did.. So the Hadiths are the speech which is one part of Sunna. The other part is the deeds of the prophet Mohammad pbuh..
Some teachings reached us by speech of the prophet’s companions (Sahaba) like what he did when he was with them, or reached us by the speech of the prophet’s wives in the topics of marriage & what he often does at home..

The details of the prayers are in Sunna in both forms; speech (Hadiths) & deeds..

In Bukhari, the prophet Mohammad pbuh says: “pray as you see me praying”..

He taught Muslims the actions practically by seeing him; but also he said some Hadiths theoretically to explain the way.. And then, Muslims have the Hadith of him & also the speech of his companions (Sahaba) who explained his actions when they saw him..

If you search in the books that talk about the Salah, you’ll find a lot of authenticated Hadiths talking about every detail of the prayers..

Just some examples:

** About the number of prayers:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 10, Number 506:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If there was a river at the door of anyone of you and he took a bath in it five times a day would you notice any dirt on him?" They said, "Not a trace of dirt would be left." The Prophet added, "That is the example of the five prayers with which Allah blots out (annuls) evil deeds."

** Number of rak'ahs for each prayer:

Sunan Abu-Dawud:
The prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) saw a man offering after the morning prayer two rak'ahs. The prophet said: morning prayer is two rak'ahs.

(& there are Hadiths about the other prayers as well)

** Actions and sayings of prayers:

- Sahih Muslim:
Abu Hurayrah (May Allah be pleased with him) said, that the Prophet(Peace be upon him) said;
“Whoever performs any prayer in which he did not read Umm Al-Qur’an (Al-
Fatihah), then his prayer is incomplete.” He said it thrice.

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 699:
Narrated Anas bin Malik Al-Ansari:
Allah's Apostle rode a horse and fell down and the right side of his body was injured. On that day he prayed one of the prayers sitting and we also prayed behind him sitting. When the Prophet finished the prayer with Taslim, he said, "The Imam is to be followed and if he prays standing then pray standing, and bow when he bows, and raise your heads when he raises his head; prostrate when he prostrates; and if he says "Sami'a-l-lahu Liman hamida", you should say, "Rabbana wa-laka-l hamd.:

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 724:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle entered the mosque and a person followed him. The man prayed and went to the Prophet and greeted him. The Prophet returned the greeting and said to him, "Go back and pray, for you have not prayed." The man went back prayed in the same way as before, returned and greeted the Prophet who said, "Go back and pray, for you have not prayed." This happened thrice. The man said, "By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I cannot offer the prayer in a better way than this. Please, teach me how to pray." The Prophet said, "When you stand for Prayer say Takbir and then recite from the Holy Qur'an (of what you know by heart) and then bow till you feel at ease. Then raise your head and stand up straight, then prostrate till you feel at ease during your prostration, then sit with calmness till you feel at ease (do not hurry) and do the same in all your prayers

- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 785:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "Be straight in the prostrations and none of you should put his forearms on the ground (in the prostration) like a dog."

- Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 3, Number 0991:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to give the salutation to his left and right sides until the whiteness of his cheek was seen, (saying: "Assalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah, Assalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah: Peace be upon you, and mercy of Allah" twice.


** Time of prayers:

- Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 2, Number 0393:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Gabriel (peace_be_upon_him) led me in prayer at the House (i.e. the Ka'bah). He prayed the noon prayer with me when the sun had passed the meridian to the extent of the thong of a sandal; he prayed the afternoon prayer with me when the shadow of everything was as long as itself; he prayed the sunset prayer with me when one who is fasting breaks the fast; he prayed the night prayer with me when the twilight had ended; and he prayed the dawn prayer with me when food and drink become forbidden to one who is keeping the fast.
On the following day he prayed the noon prayer with me when his shadow was as long as himself; he prayed the afternoon prayer with me when his shadow was twice as long as himself; he prayed the sunset prayer at the time when one who is fasting breaks the fast; he prayed the night prayer with me when about the third of the night had passed; and he prayed the dawn prayer with me when there was a fair amount of light.
Then turning to me he said: Muhammad, this is the time observed by the prophets before you, and the time is anywhere between two times.

Similar case:

- Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1278:
Sulaiman b. Buraida narrated it on the authority of his father that a person asked the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the time of prayer. Upon this he said: Pray with us these two, meaning two days. When the sun passed the meridian. he gave command to Bilal who uttered the call to prayer. then lie commanded him and pronounced Iqama for noon prayer (Then at the tine of the afternoon prayer) he again commanded and Iqama for the afternoon prayer was pronounced when the sun was high, white and clear. He then commanded and Iqama for the evening prayer was pronounced, when the sun had set. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the night prayer was pronounced When the twilight had disappeared. He then commanded him and the Iqama for the morning prayer was pronounced, when the dawn had appeared. When it was the next day, he commanded him to delay the noon prayer till the extreme heat had passed and he did so, and he allowed it to be delayed till the extreme heat had passed. He observed the afternoon prayer when the sun was high, delaying it beyond the time he had previously observed it. He observed the evening prayer before the twilight had vanished; he observed the night prayer when a third of the night had passed; and he observed the dawn prayer when there was clear daylight. He (the Holy Prophet) then said: Where is the man who inquired about the time of prayer? He (the inquirer) said: Messenger of Allah I here I am. He (the Holy Prophet) said: The time for your prayer is within the limits of what you have seen.


And there are many other Hadiths about every detail in the Salah..
Some of us just learn all the prayers without knowing these Hadiths & that’s fine if we learned them correctly.. And if you want the Hadiths of the details, just start searching in the books of Sunna :sunny:

This is about the prayers. Even for the amounts of Zakaa (alms), the actions in Haj (Pilgrimage), and many other things, we can’t find the details in the Holy Quran, we have to check the Hadiths about them.. How will we be true Muslims who do all of these, if we don’t believe Hadiths?

=>>> continue in the next post ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[HinduIconoclast]

Also, I have also read that characters such as Abraham and Moses are foretold in the Vedas, with Abrahaam as brahma and his wife sarswati (sarah) and Manu as Moses.

I have heard about such things also. What you have to keep in mind though is that Hindus try to use this to try to prove that Islam came from Hinduism and Muslims also use this to try to prove that Hinduism forecasted Islam as the final revelation and that Hindus should follow Islam. Since I have seen this from both sides, I don't accept either - I simply think that the similarity between Brahma and Abraham/Saraswati and Sara are coincidence or can be explained away by some other means.

[Proud of Islam]

The prophete Mohamed SWS follow only the revelation nothing else, I agree with you he can not be in contradiction with the Hadiths.

But I have found many hadiths in contradiction with Hadits how its possible ? What I understand those Haditsh in contradiction can not be told by our prophete Mohamed SWS .

If we find contradictive Hadiths, we have to see which one is stronger in the classifications book which starts from Sahih ( right & authentic) till Mawdoo’ (wrong & they are lies)..

Sorry my sisters I will not take all the Hadiths,

You are right; I shouldn't say all the Hadiths, I should say all the authenticated Hadiths.. Sorry ^^

Allah SWT give me a brain, I have to use it, it not because its an authentic Hadiths that I have to swich off my brain and follow it like a SHEEP.

Oh brother, don’t switch off your brain! But who are us comparing to the scholars who spent all their lives in the science of Hadiths? Who are us comparing with people who traveled in the past to meet people who were with the Prophet (pbuh) in order to write Hadiths? Not me or you who can say that a Hadith is right or wrong.. As I told you the classifications are ready & available; all the Ummah takes their science which is in the previous books.. Our very small knowledge doesn’t make us illegible to differentiate between Hadiths; that’s why we have to take what they say that it’s authenticated. And also our small knowledge about the Hadiths’ Science & the biographies of the reporters doesn’t allow us to say that we don’t believe any Hadith!

Do you know the Hadiths of our prophete MOhamed SWS, which say if somebody say even a lie about me and spread it to people by saying it was told by the Prophete SWS ??? that person has to prepare a place in hell, Allah INJINA insh'allah, Ameen.

Yes, so you believe some Hadiths :sunny:
Because of this Hadith; the scholars paid considerable efforts as I said to differentiate between the right Hadiths & the lies. There are some scholars of History who are not Muslims, said that there is no nation cared about something as the care of Muslims about the Hadiths and their reporters..


=>>> continue in the next post ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

I hope my post will not be deleted again.

Ask allah SWT to forgive us and guide us to the TRUTH.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers in islam and humanity.

I am with you; I disagree with deleting posts. You know, our Islam is the truth, so if there is anything wrong written, the truth of our Islam has the reply to evidence what is right..

Hope my post wasn’t inconvenient & hope that we all take the Islam as what we say & believe in the (Shahada). All Muslims believe in Allah (swt) & His prophet (pbuh); so we have to believe in their speech..

It was reported to have been said during Muhammad's Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat after his Last Pilgrimage. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: the Book of Allah and my Sunna”
(sited in Tabaqat al-Muhaditheen fi Asbahan by Abu al-Shaykh, al-Tamhid by Ibn Abd al-Barr, al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain by Hakim al-Nishaburi & al-Sunan al-Kubra by Imam al-Bayhaqi)

Allah says:
[4:115] As for him who opposes the messenger, after the guidance has been pointed out to him, and follows other than the believers' way, we will direct him in the direction he has chosen, and commit him to Hell; what a miserable destiny!


May Allah save us from the Hell, and may Allah make me, you brother & all of us in the Paradise (Jannah).. Ameen..

Wassalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah..

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[qarasz]

Hindus bury their dead for two main practical reasons.
1. because land where people are buried cannot be reused where as the cremated ashes of a body can be spread anywhere (depending on the wishes of the deceased)
2. in an area where wood was cut down to build a funeral pyre the area would become deforested for further use

A religious reason would be that of the agnihotra. The agnihotra was a Vedic fire ritual/sacrifice (yajna) that was the only ritual that was supposed to be performed by the man of the house twice a day. This great importance given to fire probably led to or lent credit to the practice of cremation in Hindu India.

reply for above

I WOULD LIKE TO REPLY FOR THE ABOVE.

1] BURNING HUMAN BODY RESULT IN RELEASING OF TOXIC GAS......AGAINST NATURE.
2] CUTTING OF TREES AGAIN RESULT IN AFFORESTATION

THIS IS MY QUESTION......?

1]HINDUISM IS NOT A RELIGION...ITS ONLY RELATED TO A CIVILISATION.
2]WHO ACTuALY REPRESENT AS YOUR GOD
3]WHICH RELIGIOUS TEXTS SUPPORT THIS TEXT IS FROM THIS GOD.
4]HOW IN BAGAVAD GITA MENTIONED ABOUT POSITION OF EARTH(SCEINCE)
5]HOW HUMAN BEING CAN BE GOOD.....ALTHOUGH ,BIRTH OF EACH HUMAN BEING IS NOT DETERMINED BY HIM....
a] HUMAN BEING HIMSELF CANT PREDICT WHAT HAPPEN D NEXT.
b]HUMAN BEING HIMSELT DOES'NT HAV A KNOWLEDGE ABT HIS TIME OF DEATH.
C] HUMAN BEING IS MORE POWERLESS WITH DEATH THAN BEFORE ,,......BECS...WHEN HE IS ALIVE HE WAS SUPPORTED WITH PHYSIQUE & LIFE.

AFTER HIS DEATH.......HE TURNED NOT MORE THAN SOIL......


WHY U NEED TO AGREE ALL & MIX IT UP.....HAS ANY GOD ALLOWED U TO DO SO?

ALLAH HAS SENT TO EARTH LAKS OF PROPHETS & ALLAH HAS SENT HIS REVELATION OTHER THAN QURAN TO HIS MASSENGERS.................

REVELATION

A] ALONG WITH MESSENGER...HE ONLY REICITE(ITS PART OF HIS LIFE)
DOES'NT EXISTS AFTER MESSENGRS DEATH
B] MESSENGER ......CONVEY AND PRESERVE IN THE FORM OF BOOK.

C] ALLAH SENT HIS REVELATION WITH SAME SOUL BUT DIFFERENT BODY
( CONTENT- ONE GOD/ALLAH-WORSHIP & OBEY ---THIS THE SOUL)
(BODY WILL THE LANGUAGE USED TO EXPRESS---ARABIC, ARAMIC......ETC)


QURAN

THIS IS THE FINAL REVELATION ONE GOD/ ALLAH.

"THOSE WISDOM CAN UNDERSTANT THIS IS FROM ALLAH"

ITS QURAN FROM THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN & EARTH...ITS STILL REMAINED AS UNALTERED. ........SO STATUS QOU IS THE STATUS WHEN IT REVEALED..........NO CHANGE U CAN SEE.

ALLAH CREATED HEAVEN & EARTH & QURAN..

HERE ITS AVAILABLE FOR HUMAN KIND TO WORSHIP ALLAH & OBEY ALLAH...SO DO IT WITHOUT ANY DOUBT.
THIS BOOK CONTAIN CONTENTS OF ALL OTHER RELIGIOUS BOOKS...

HERE ALLAH HAS PROVIDED HIS FINAL ORDER TO THAT IS TO BE OBEYED BY ALL MANKIND TROUGH OUT HIS LIFE.

OTHER RELIGOUS TEXTS CONTAIN...SCEINTIFIC MISTALKES......& CONTARARY OPINION IN THE SAME TEXTS ITELF........( WHICH MEANS THAAT HUMAN KIND HAS MANIPULATED THE TEXT FOR THEIR PURPOSE Or
IT HAPPEND SO WHEN THEY TRANSLATED IT FROM ITS ORGINAL LANGUAGE...Eg BIBLE TRANSLATED FROM ITS ARAMIC LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH......HERE NOW U CAN ONLY FIND BIBBLE IN ENGLISH.......THIS HAS MANY MISTAKES OCCURED DURING TARNSLATION) & ARAMIC IS LANGUAGE NOT USING ANYMORE.

SO BROTHER....ALLAH HAS REVEALED HIS FINAL MESSAGE THROUGH PROPHET MUHAMMED (SALLAWU ALLAIWA SALLAM)...ITS IS INTACT & STAY LIKE THIS TILL THE DOOMS DAY........SO PRAY TO ALLAH & OBEY HIM WITH AGREEING WITH QURAN & PROPHETS(SALLAWU ALLAIWA SALLAM)...SUNNAH(DEEDS)


BOTH LIVING AND NON-LIVING THINGS ARE CREATION OF ALLAH AND THEY ARE ONLY THE CREATUE NOT CREATOR.......

OTHER TEXTS OTHER THAN QURAN IS MANIPULATED BY MAN THROUGH YEARS , SO IT CONTAIN WORDS FROM HUMAN BEING-WITH SCEINTIFIC & NON SCEINTIFIC MISTAKE.......SO ITS NOT ELIGIBLE TO FOLLOW...


SO FOLLOW FINAL AND LAST REVELEATION FROM ALLAH WHICH WILL BE INTACT TILL LAST DAY.

ALLAH IS ALL KNOWING......MAKE UR PRAYERS 7 DEEDS TO ALLAH...

QUARN IS AVAILABLE TO U & U ARE EDUACATED TOOOO\

JAZAK ALLAH GHAIR

[thetruth2009]

I am with you; I disagree with deleting posts. You know, our Islam is the truth, so if there is anything wrong written, the truth of our Islam has the reply to evidence what is right..

Hope my post wasn’t inconvenient & hope that we all take the Islam as what we say & believe in the (Shahada). All Muslims believe in Allah (swt) & His prophet (pbuh); so we have to believe in their speech..

It was reported to have been said during Muhammad's Farewell Sermon atop Mount Arafat after his Last Pilgrimage. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: the Book of Allah and my Sunna”
(sited in Tabaqat al-Muhaditheen fi Asbahan by Abu al-Shaykh, al-Tamhid by Ibn Abd al-Barr, al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain by Hakim al-Nishaburi & al-Sunan al-Kubra by Imam al-Bayhaqi)

Allah says:
[4:115] As for him who opposes the messenger, after the guidance has been pointed out to him, and follows other than the believers' way, we will direct him in the direction he has chosen, and commit him to Hell; what a miserable destiny!


May Allah save us from the Hell, and may Allah make me, you brother & all of us in the Paradise (Jannah).. Ameen..

Wassalamo Alikom Wa rahmatollah..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

Assalam aleykoum sister,

I would like to thank you for your post and the time you took to reply to me, I appreciate, and I ask allah SWT to reward and to protect you and all your family.

I will Insha'allah if I am still alive and if I have a time, to reply you

AS you I ASK allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth and to give us the paradise insha'Allah, Ameen.


PS : I beleive in hathentic HADITHS but not all, how I do to see if a Hadiths is right or not by the Quran.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah :)

Ameen to your du'a.

:sl:

[Proud of Islam]

Assalam aleykoum sister,

I would like to thank you for your post and the time you took to reply to me, I appreciate, and I ask allah SWT to reward and to protect you and all your family.

I will Insha'allah if I am still alive and if I have a time, to reply you

AS you I ASK allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth and to give us the paradise insha'Allah, Ameen.


PS : I beleive in hathentic HADITHS but not all, how I do to see if a Hadiths is right or not by the Quran.

Ameen ^^

You are welcome; actually it took time to write that, but we have to pay efforts for protecting our Islam :sunny:

I appreciate your appreciation! ^^

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah :)

Ameen to your du'a.

:sl:

Hopefully insha Allah..
:Alhumdill

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

Ok, and about eating porks & hejab, I'll write about them later insha Allah...

Regarding eating pork, HinduIconoclast, I’ve seen this thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...-pork-bad.html

& I don’t want for this thread to be closed like the above one..

Therefore, you can go there:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ting-pork.html

You can read the posts & if you still have any question, discuss it there ^^


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[justahumane]

:wa:




I remember a revert story of a Hindu. His mother was very conservative . NO , she did not wear burqa but used to cover herself from head to toe.

After her death , when he ( that ex hindu) with brothers & other male relatives burnt the dead body , her clothes burnt first and all could watched the naked body . He was shocked . He thought , mom never came in front of my male cousins & other male relatives without veil but now all can watch her like this ?

It was a turning point for him , he started thinking about the way of treating the dead in other religions & finally accepted Islam :):)

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.:omg:

May I expect the ex hindu hinduiconoclast to confirm this naked lie?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Why would u assume such nonsense? For your information, we are not allowed to lie about Islam. It's possible that that's how it was done with them. What a shame that you think this way.

[HinduIconoclast]

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.:omg:

May I expect the ex hindu hinduiconoclast to confirm this naked lie?

First of all, I am a Hindu - not a former Hindu, lets get that straight first.

Also, I agree with you, this story has to be a complete fabrication. There is no way that the naked body is visible even when the clothing has burned away. And to my knowledge, many cremations are done with wood covering the body on top as well as supporting it on the bottom, so not much would be visible at all.

[justahumane]

Why would u assume such nonsense? For your information, we are not allowed to lie about Islam. It's possible that that's how it was done with them. What a shame that you think this way.

What nonsense U are talking about? One nonsense that I found on this thread was a false story of an imaginary revert. And it cant be possible that naked body of a deceased can be visible.Period. and I didnt say that anyone is lying about Islam.

Peace to U.

[justahumane]

First of all, I am a Hindu - not a former Hindu, lets get that straight first.

Also, I agree with you, this story has to be a complete fabrication. There is no way that the naked body is visible even when the clothing has burned away. And to my knowledge, many cremations are done with wood covering the body on top as well as supporting it on the bottom, so not much would be visible at all.

Oh sorry brother, I dont know how I got this wrong idea that U have converted to Islam.

Thanks for confirmation.

[thetruth2009]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah :)

Ameen to your du'a.

:sl:

Assalam aleykoum my sister,


Do not worry I believe in authentic Hadiths, I am not Quoranic or something else, I am only a muslim. :statisfie

Assalam aleykoum, I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth, Ameen.

[thetruth2009]

Brother, we believe in the authenticated hadiths as well. I believe we are not in disagreement inshaAllah :)

Ameen to your du'a.

:sl:

Ameen ^^

You are welcome; actually it took time to write that, but we have to pay efforts for protecting our Islam :sunny:

I appreciate your appreciation! ^^




Hopefully insha Allah..
:Alhumdill

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

Assalam aleykoum my sister,


I have two questions :


When ( AGE ) our prophete mohamed SWS received the revelation ?

What was his religion before the revelation ?



Assalam aleykoum my sister, I am still reading your post.


Ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth, Ameen.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Assalam aleykoum my sister,


Do not worry I believe in authentic Hadiths, I am not Quoranic or something else, I am only a muslim. :statisfie

Assalam aleykoum, I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us to the truth, Ameen.

:w:

Alhamdulillah brother :)

Ameen.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sister light of hevean,


yes hamdouliallah, as you said.

You can reply to the two questions i ASKED to the sister proud of islam, we are here to think and to find out the truth together.

Assalam aleykoum sister light of heaven god bless you and your family, Ameen.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

What nonsense U are talking about? One nonsense that I found on this thread was a false story of an imaginary revert. And it cant be possible that naked body of a deceased can be visible.Period. and I didnt say that anyone is lying about Islam.

Peace to U.

Are u sure about that? Like I said, we cannot lie about Islam. I didnt say u said anyone in particular, but that you hinted lies were rumored to spread Islam. That is what I'm talking about. So I said we cannot lie about islam at all. That's a sin upon us. Maybe u didn't mean it that way? But let me assure you that's what your statement means. I'm not new to English!

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.:omg:

You see, what you claim is not what we're not allowed to do.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Assalam aleykoum sister light of hevean,


yes hamdouliallah, as you said.

You can reply to the two questions i ASKED to the sister proud of islam, we are here to think and to find out the truth together.

Assalam aleykoum sister light of heaven god bless you and your family, Ameen.

What do these questions have to do with anything brother?

But I'll answer anyway.

Prophet Muhammad(saw) recieved the revelation when he(saw) was 40 years old.

Prophet Muhammad(saw) was a monotheist. He didn't follow any of the religions at his(saw) time.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,


You are right, I wanted to send you private message, but I nedd to post 2 more post to be allowed to.

Because the thread is ( Discussion with HinduIconoclast ).

I will reply to you insha'Allah by private message.

God blees you, Ameen.

[Proud of Islam]

Peace Muslim Woman,

Well sister I m sorry to say that the story of hindu revert that U quoted is a balant lie. This is not the way that cremnation is done that the naked boly of deceased is visible to anyone even when the clothes are burnt. I challange it, Just reconfirm it, its shameful bundle of lies. I feel pained that misinformation about other religions is being spread in order to spread the truth ie Islam. What a shame.:omg:

May I expect the ex hindu hinduiconoclast to confirm this naked lie?

First of all, justahumane, be sure that Muslim woman did hear it from somewhere, because we must not to lie..
However, (( if )) that source (where she got the story) wasn’t correct, we apologize, but it’s a fault of that source..

Also be sure that the right beliefs of Islam can be evidenced, even without these stories :sunny:
Everything we have is from The Most Great, Allah, and everything from The Only True God is the truth even when thinking about it logically by our minds..

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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Proud of Islam]

Because the thread is ( Discussion with HinduIconoclast ).

:sl:
No problem brother, we are discussing other things here as you see..

I have two questions :
When ( AGE ) our prophete mohamed SWS received the revelation ?
What was his religion before the revelation ?

As Light of Heaven Jazaha Allah Khair said:

Prophet Muhammad(saw) recieved the revelation when he(saw) was 40 years old.

Prophet Muhammad(saw) was a monotheist. He didn't follow any of the religions at his(saw) time.

In the early days of the prophet’s life, most people in Makkah were heathen; they used to worship idols..
However, the prophet has never ever worshipped them..

Narrated by Aisha about the days before revelation: The commencement of the divine inspiration to Allah's apostle was in the form of good dreams which came like bright daylight (i.e. true) and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him.. (Sahih Bukhari)


He used to go regularly in seclusion in the Cave of Hira', where he used to worship (Allah alone).. There, he was thinking and cogitating of the Kingdom of Allah, and His great creations.. till suddenly the truth came while he was in the Cave of Hira', with the first revelation..

The prophet was behaving very morally even before the revelation; when he was afraid of what Gabriel (peace be upon him) said in the first revelation, his wife Khadijah told him:
"Have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good reactions with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones."

The prophet received the revelation at age of 40, called for the message of Allah 23 years: 13 years in Makkah and then 10 years in Al Madeenah.. He died at age of 63 peace be upon him..


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Longing for the Paradise (Al-Jannah) where the endless happiness…

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace;

What nonsense U are talking about? One nonsense that I found on this thread was a false story of an imaginary revert. .

ooopsss I missed these posts totally . Despite the hatred media propaganda against Islam , thousands & thousands are embracing Islam all over the world :statisfie And sadly Muslims are not that active like Christian missionaries . I find it amazing that even after 9/11 , thousands Americans became Muslims.

So , there is no need for me to submit a false story . May be , the brother who wrote his revert story , in their case , woods were not enough to cover the body or somehow some woods fell from the body and nakedness apperared ..I don't know . I just wrote what I read in that story.