Infallibility of Imams - Shirk?

[HinduIconoclast]

I'm not sure if there has already been a thread about this subject or not but I haven't seen one.

I think that most Sunnis treat the Shi'a belief in the infallibility of the imams as shirk because they attribute the absolute truth to these imams just like Allah is described as al-Haqq.

I was hoping to read a Shi'i's defense of the belief in the infallibility of the imams. I would also welcome any other comments by anyone else.

Thank you.

['Abd-al Latif]

The status of the imams of the Ithna ‘Ashari Shi’ah

Q.What is the position on the 12 Imams of the Shia, especiallt the later ones?.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The Raafidis, Imamis or Ithna ‘Asharis (“Twelvers”) are one of the branches of Shi’ism. They are called Raafidis because they rejected (rafada) most of the Sahaabah and they rejected the leadership of the two Shaykhs Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, or because they rejected the imamate of Zayd ibn ‘Ali, and deserted him. They called Imamis because they are primarily focused on the issue of imamate, and they made it a basic principle of their religion, or because they claim that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated that ‘Ali and his descendents would be imams. They are called Ithna ‘Asharis (“Twelvers”) because they believe in the imamate of twelve men from the Prophet’s family (ahl al-bayt), the first of whom was ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and the last of whom was Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-‘Askari, the supposed hidden imam, who they say entered the tunnel of Samarra’ in the middle of the third century AH and he is still alive therein, and they are waiting for him to come out!

They hold beliefs and principles which are contrary to those of the people of Islam, such as the following:

-1-

They exaggerate about their imams, claiming that they are infallible, and they devote many acts of worship to them such as supplication, seeking help, offering sacrifices and tawaaf (circumambulating their tombs). This is major shirk which Allaah tells us will not be forgiven. These acts of shirk are committed by their scholars and common folk alike, without anyone among them objecting to that.

-2-

They say that the Holy Qur’aan has been distorted, and that things have been added and taken away. They have books concerning that which are known to their scholars and many of their common folk, and they even say that believing that the Qur’aan has been distorted is an essential tenet of their beliefs. See the answer to question no. 21500.

-3-

They regard most of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) as kaafirs, and disavow them, and they seek to draw closer to Allaah by cursing and reviling them. They claim that they apostatized after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) except very few (only seven). This is a rejection of the Qur’aan which affirms their virtue, and says that Allaah was pleased with them and chose them to accompany His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). It also implies a slur against the Qur’aan itself, because it was transmitted via them; if they were kuffaar then there is no guarantee that they did not distort it or change it. This is what the Raafidis believe anyway, as stated above.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: As for the one who goes further and claims that they apostatized after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, apart from a small number, no more than ten or so, or that they became evildoers, there is no doubt that he is a kaafir, because he is rejecting what it says in the Qur’aan in more than one place, that Allaah was pleased with them and praised them. Indeed, the one who doubts that such a person is a kaafir is to be labelled as a kaafir himself, because what this view implies is that those who transmitted the Qur’aan and Sunnah were kuffaar or rebellious evildoers. The verse says “You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:110], and the best of them were the first generation. But according to this view, most of them were kaafirs and rebellious evildoers, and this ummah is the worst of nations and the earliest generations of this ummah were the most evil of them. The fact that this is kufr is something that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing. End quote from al-Saarim al-Maslool ‘ala Shaatim al-Rasool (p. 590).

-4-

They attribute badaa’ to Allaah, i.e., forming a new opinion that was not held before. This implies attribution of ignorance to Allaah, may He be exalted.

-5-

They believe in taqiyah (dissimulation) which means showing outwardly something other than what one feels inside. In fact this is lying and hypocrisy and skill in deceiving people. This is not something that they do at times of fear; rather they regard use of taqiyah as a religious duty for minor and major matters, at times of fear and times of safety. Whatever of truth was narrated from one of their imams, such as praise for the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or agreeing with Ahl al-Sunnah, even in matters of purification or food and drink, is rejected by the Shi’ah who say that the Imam only said that by way of taqiyah.

-6-

Belief in raja’ah, which is the belief that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the members of his household (ahl al-bayt), ‘Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husayn and the other imams will return. At the same time, Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthmaan, Mu’aawiyah, Yazeed, Ibn Dhi’l-Jooshan and everyone who harmed Ahl al-bayt – according to their claims – will also return.

All of these people will return – according to their beliefs – to this world once more before the Day of Resurrection, when the Mahdi reappears, as the enemy of Allaah Ibn Saba’ told them; they will return in order to be punished because they harmed Ahl al-Bayt and transgressed against them and denied them their rights, so they will be severely punished, then they will all die, then they will be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection for the final recompense. This is what they believe.

And there are other corrupt beliefs which one can find more details about in the following books, which explain how false they are:

al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb (available in English, translated by Abu Bilal Mustafa al-Kanadi)

Usool Madhhab al-Shi’ah al-Imamiyyah by Dr. Naasir al-Qafaari

Firaq Mu’aasirah tantasib ila al-Islam by Dr. Ghaalib ibn ‘Ali ‘Awaaji (1/127-269)

Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib wa’l-Ahzaab al-Mu’aasirah (1/51-57).

See also the answer to question no. 1148 and 10272.

The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas were asked: Is the Imam Shi’ah way part of Islam? Who made it up? Because they, i.e., the Shi’ah, attribute their madhhab to Sayyiduna ‘Ali (may Allaah ennoble his face).

Answer: The Imami Shi’ah madhhab is a fabricated madhhab that has been introduced into Islam. We advise you to read the book al-Khutoot al-‘Areedah and Mukhtasar al-Tuhfah al-Ithna ‘Ashariyyah and Minhaaj al-Sunnah by Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah], which will explain a lot of their innovations.

‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz, ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan. End quote.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (2/377).

Secondly:

From the above it is clear that this madhahb is false and that it goes against the beliefs of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, and that its beliefs will not be acceptable from anyone, either from their scholars or their common folk.

As for the imams to whom they claim to belong, they are innocent of this lie and falsehood.

There follow the names of these imams:

1- ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him) who was martyred in 40 AH.

2- Al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) (3-50 AH)

3- Al-Husayn ibn ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) (4-61 AH)

4- ‘Ali Zayn al-‘Aabideen ibn al-Husayn (38-95 AH), whom they call al-Sajjaad

5- Muhammad ibn ‘Ali Zayn al-‘Aabideen (57-114 AH) whom they call al-Baaqir

6- Ja’far ibn Muhammad al-Baaqir (83-148 AH) whom they call al-Saadiq

7- Moosa ibn Ja’far al-Saadiq (128-148 AH) whom they call al-Kaadim

8- ‘Ali ibn Moosa al-Kaadim (148-203 AH) whom they call al-Rida (Reza)

9- Muhammad al-Jawaad ibn ‘Ali al-Rida’ (195-220 AH) whom they call al-Taqiy

10- ‘Ali al-Haadi ibn Muhammad al-Jawaad (212-254 AH) whom they call al-Naqiy

11- al-Hasan al-‘Askari ibn ‘Ali al-Haadi (232-260) whom they call al-Zakiy

12- Muhammad al-Mahdi ibn al-Hasan al-‘Askari, whom they call al-Hujjah al-Qaa’im al-Muntazar. They claim that he entered a tunnel in Samarra’, but most researchers are of the view that he did not exist at all, and that he is a Shi’i myth.

See: al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah (1/51).

Ibn Katheer said in al-Bidaayah wa’l-Nihaayah (1/177): As for what they believe about the tunnel of Samarra’, that is a myth which has no basis in reality and no proof or sound reports. End quote.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) divided the Imams of the Ithna ‘Ashari Shi’ah into four categories:

1 – ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib, al-Hasan and al-Husayn (may Allaah be pleased with them). They are noble Sahaabah and no one doubts their virtue and leadership, but many others shared with them the virtue of being companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and among the Sahaabah there are others who were more virtuous than them, based on saheeh evidence from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

2 – ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn, Muhammad ibn ‘Ali al-Baaqir, Ja’far ibn Muhammad al-Saadiq and Moosa ibn Ja’far. They are among the trustworthy and reliable scholars. Manhaaj al-Sunnah (2/243, 244).

3 – ‘Ali ibn Moosa al-Rida, Muhammad ibn ‘Ali ibn Moosa al-Jawaad, ‘Ali ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Ali al-‘Askari, and al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali ibn Muhammad al-‘Askari. Concerning them, Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) said: They did not show a great deal of knowledge such that the ummah might benefit from them, nor did they have any authority by means of which they could help the ummah. Rather they were like any other Haashimis, they occupy a respected position, and they have sufficient knowledge of what which is needed by them and expected of people like them; it is a type is knowledge that is widely available to ordinary Muslims. But the type of knowledge that is exclusive to the scholars was not present in their case. Therefore seeks of knowledge did not receive from them what they received from the other three. Had they had that which was useful to seekers of knowledge, they would have sought it from them, as seekers of knowledge are well aware of where to go for knowledge. Minhaaj al-Sunnah (6/387).

4 – Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-‘Askari al-Muntazar (the awaited one). He did not exist at all, as stated above.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/101272

[rk9414]

I'm not sure if there has already been a thread about this subject or not but I haven't seen one.

I think that most Sunnis treat the Shi'a belief in the infallibility of the imams as shirk because they attribute the absolute truth to these imams just like Allah is described as al-Haqq.

I was hoping to read a Shi'i's defense of the belief in the infallibility of the imams. I would also welcome any other comments by anyone else.

Thank you.

I think it is quite self evident that infallibility is characteristic of only God. As to how Shi'a defend there beliefs, if you look at their books of hadith you find many of them to be quite weak or otherwise fabricated.

[HinduIconoclast]

I think it is quite self evident that infallibility is characteristic of only God. As to how Shi'a defend there beliefs, if you look at their books of hadith you find many of them to be quite weak or otherwise fabricated.

I agree with you there and I do think of it as shirk for anyone to claim that another person possesses any of the qualities of Allah SWT. But I was just hoping that we could get a Shi'i here to defend his position but unfortunately it looks like that is not going to happen. imsad

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[bamboozled]

watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5spUkVNU1o

Dr Bilal Phillips talks about Shi'ites concept of infallibility. mA he is very good.

[Zafran]

salaam

There are not that many shia on this forum.

peace

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,


I think there are not many shia, because I do not think, they are welcomed here no ?

Because of the different point of view ?

I am not here to make any division, I will never divid the religion of Allah SWT.

I am not sunni, I am not shia, I am only a muslim ( soumisssion to Allah SWT ).


I ask allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Ramadhan]

I am not sunni, I am not shia, I am only a muslim ( soumisssion to Allah SWT ).


I ask allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.

I like this best

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Saying "I'm a Sunni" means adhering to the way of our beloved Messenger, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, so there's no fitna in saying that, just sunni = muslim. The greatest Islamic scholars ascribed them to Ahlus-Sunnah, and noone ever condemned anyone for that. In fact, a Sunni reminds us on Ahlus-Sunnah wal-jama'a, jama'ah meaning: community, one body, whereas the name "Shi'a" implies division.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

Me I am not sunni or shia, or salafist, or any member of any school.

I am a simple muslim, that's it.

I make no difference, they are all my sisters and brothers in islam, we worship the same god, no difference.

I can not say I am sunni or shia and say I am better than the other one, who I am to judge other, I am afraid to be in front of Allah SWT, because I have done nothing in my life to thanks him for all what he gaves me during all my life.

Plaese do not make division of Allah SWT religion.


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 4

125. Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, I ask Allah SWT to unify us because we are divided, and I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and guide us to the truth, Ameen.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah!

Ameen to the du'a!

Saying one's a sunni doesn't bring any division, as sunni = muslim, and adhering to the Sunnah of Messenger sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam is a command from Allah, swt.

Who are Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah?

Praise be to Allaah.

Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah are those who adhere to the Sunnah and who unite upon it, not turning to anything else, whether that be in matters of belief (‘aqeedah) or matters of actions which are subject to shar’i rulings. Hence they are called Ahl al-Sunnah because they adhere to it (the Sunnah), and they called Ahl al-Jamaa’ah because they are united (mujtami’oon) in following it.

If you examine the followers of bid’ah (innovation), you will find that they differ concerning that which they are following, with regard to beliefs, methodology and practices, which indicates that their being far removed from the Sunnah is commensurate with the extent to which they have introduced innovations.

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Rasaa’il Fadeelat al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 1. p. 37

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

Thank you my brother for your reply :

we have two majors groups, because I can not say sect because sect it does not exist in arabic I think no ?

1) Sunnis

2) Shia


Inside Sunnis we have other groups, in shia maybe we have other.

I wonder how its possible, some scholars do not agree with others, some schol do not agree with other, hadiths authentic of Bukhari are not taken by Muslim ?????

What I see where is the truth in all this, because in this world nobody can say what I am doing and what I am practising is the totally truth, do you know why ?

Because we have no prophete of Allah SWT nowdays, why do you think allah SWT will send the last messenger before the end of the world ?

Because we are not totally in the right path, only Allah SWT knows the truth, Allah SWT is the truth, Allah SWT is the most clever , the bigest scholar, no comparaton with any prophete or human nowdays.

Do you know what can unify us ?

1) Allah SWT, by sending the last messenger

2 ) The Quran , the most powerful book we can not imagine, and the protected one.


We have to work together, because we are living the most dangerous time, we have to look for the truth everyday.

If somebody say I am in the right path and I am sure that I am doing what Allah SWT says and the prophete Mohamed SWS, I am sure that personn is lost and in the trap of SHAYTAAN, DIABLO, DIABLE, DEVIL.

I will look for to the truth all my life INSHA'ALLAH, its what Allah SWT ask us, to use our brain when we read the Quran.

We have to read the Quran with our HEART not with our eyes, and we have to ask Allah SWT to show us the truth insha'Allah, Ameen.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

Some disagreements are OK, some not. A disagreement by itself isn't bad, it depends what's the disagreemnt about.

All scholars are united upon the opinion that Sahih al-Bukhari is authentic. Imam Al-Bukhari collected some authentic ahaadeeth, imam Muslim others.

We have no prophets today, and there won't be any till the Day of judgement but we have authentically reported words and deeds of our beloved Messenger, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam.

And Allah, swt, is All-Wise and All-Knowing, and, as our Lord, he commanded us to follow Muhammad, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam.

So that you in sha Allah don't make a mistake related to hadith which other made, and which is a destructive mistake, please read this.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum brother,


Do not worry I beleive in Hadiths and in the protected Quran.

When Allah SWT send a prophete or messenger its bacause the religion is corrupted no ?


1) moses

2) Jésus was sent about 1 500 years after Moses

3) Mohamed SWS was sent about 600 years after Jésus

4) How many time between the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS and today ? about 14 centuries.


Do you think the religion of Allah SWT was not change by people, kings, wars, time, hypocrites.


How can you know if a personn is hypocrites or not ? even the prophete Mohamed SWS did not know that people around him are not sincer, and you want me to beleive that all the Hadiths are authentic, no sorry without me.

Sourate 9

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

101. Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk: they are obstinate in hypocrisy: thou knowest them not: We know them: twice shall We punish them: and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.


People that said they heard the prophete mohamed SWS ( after his death about 200 years ) saying this or that, they can be Hypocrite or not ? how can we be sure that they are truth muslim and sincer, how can we be sure ?????


Can somebody tell me how to recononize an authentic Hadit ? because we do not know if it is or not ? how its possible ?


I read authentic hadiths in contradiction with the quran, how its possible ? what that men the prophete Mohamed SWS can not say it because he si only following the revelation, is it true or not ?

I beleive in Hadiths al hamdouliallah and in the protected book the Quran , but how to be sure the Hadith is true or not ????


I call for the unification of all muslims with the help of Allah SWT around the Quran, because the only thing in common with all of us its the Quran, lets start from it, no division and difference between us.


I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us Ameen.

[alcurad]

both sects are gulity of this, the shiites more so, it's only a difference in degree, not action.

for example see how the four 'imams', or bukhari are treated.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

Allah, swt, said He will protect this religion, so, alhamdulillah, we have His deen even today.

Noone ever said all ahaadeeth are authentic, some yes, some no, and alhamdulillah we know which are, and which not.

If you refer to works from hadeeth sciences, you'll remove your doubts. It's not OK that you judge the ahaadeeth and you yourself say you don't know how to determine whether a hadeeth is authentic or not. So you judge something you don't know.

You call the Muslims to unite upon a wrong principle. The Muslims have to unite upon what Allah ordered them to unite, not what is common to them all. Lets say we, naudhu billah, don't agree about surah al-Baqarah, but agree on others surahs. So, according to you, we should dismiss surah al-Baqarah, and uniet upont others surahs.

Noone ever here said: "I don't how internet works, so I won't use it, it's baatil," but people come from time to time and say: "I don't know how's this hadeeth hasan or saheeh, so I'll just dismiss it." Crystal clear double standards.

So, as you yourself said you don't how does authentication of a hadeeth work, the proper reaction is to find out how it works, not to negate it. A good starting point would be: http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=73& and the link provided earlier: http://www.calltoislam.com/pdf/The%2...at%20Latif.pdf

May Allah protect us from being shaykhs to ourselves, ameen.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


Allah SWT swear that majority of human are lost except who ??????

Sourate 103

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.




1. By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

2. Verily Man is in loss,

3. Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.


How can you say that your group ( Sunni, SHIA .........) is better than other one how its possible ? do you want to act like devil ? because its what you are doing without notice it and its the worst thing you can not imagine.


Lets look at that in the Quran :


Sourate 7


In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


11. It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down.

12. ((Allah)) said: "What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."

13. ((Allah)) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."

14. He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."

15. ((Allah)) said: "Be thou among those who have respite."

16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:

17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."

18. ((Allah)) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

19. "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

20. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."

21. And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.


What those verses teach us that its easy to be part of DALIMINE, like the devil, the devil was thinging about himself, he said is better than ADAM, its what you are doing sisters and brothers, by saying we are Ahl al-Sunnah and others are a SECT ( sect does not exist in arabic, I think no ? ).

Who you are sisters and brothers to say that you are better than ???? did you sign an agreement with Allah SWT, what I see you are always saying that you are better than ????

You are doing the same mistake of the SHAYTAAN, DEVIL, DIABLO, DIABLE, do you notice it or not ?

If you are the best group what about others ???? where is the DIVINE MERCY ???? do you delete GOD MERCY ????


Please wake-up we were sleeping for 14 centuries.

I ask Allah SWT to forgive us all, you, me and all our families, and to guide you and me and all our families and humanity, Ameen.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

What you said has nothing to do with what I wrote.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum my brother,

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

Allah, swt, said He will protect this religion, so, alhamdulillah, we have His deen even today.

Allah SWT said he protected the Quran, where did you see that he protected his religion ? where did you read he protected the HADITHS ???

Sourate 15

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).



Noone ever said all ahaadeeth are authentic, some yes, some no, and alhamdulillah we know which are, and which not.

You know which HADITHS are true ? how do you know ? are you sure that all HADITHS are true, can you swear ? I do not ask you to swaer but I want to put you in front of your responsibility.

Me I can swera and you you too that the Quran is protected but about HADITHS you can not ?


If you refer to works from hadeeth sciences, you'll remove your doubts. It's not OK that you judge the ahaadeeth and you yourself say you don't know how to determine whether a hadeeth is authentic or not. So you judge something you don't know.

The science of Hadiths are Human science or Dive science ? the Quran is a divine REVELATION will never be changed, how can you compare Divine message and protected to HUMAN SCIENCE ?

You call the Muslims to unite upon a wrong principle. The Muslims have to unite upon what Allah ordered them to unite, not what is common to them all. Lets say we, naudhu billah, don't agree about surah al-Baqarah, but agree on others surahs. So, according to you, we should dismiss surah al-Baqarah, and uniet upont others surahs.


I unify around the protected book, from the fisrt verse to the last, do you know we can not guide anybody.

An human can not guide another one only Allah SWT can guide us, Insha'allah, Ameen.

Noone ever here said: "I don't how internet works, so I won't use it, it's baatil," but people come from time to time and say: "I don't know how's this hadeeth hasan or saheeh, so I'll just dismiss it." Crystal clear double standards.

What can I say, do you know a web site where I can find all the Authentic Hadiths of bukhari and muslim, allah IRHAMOUM, I have a big repect for Bukhari and muslim for the job they have done, I can not judge them, I will be judge myself.

If I show you that some hadiths are in contradiction with the quran, will you beleive me or not ?

So, as you yourself said you don't how does authentication of a hadeeth work, the proper reaction is to find out how it works, not to negate it. A good starting point would be: http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=73& and the link provided earlier: http://www.calltoislam.com/pdf/The%2...at%20Latif.pdf


May Allah protect us from being shaykhs to ourselves, ameen.

Ameen for your DOUA by brother.

I will be happy to meet the HUMAN, who can say wich HADITHS are corect or not, the only personn can say that is the prophete Mohamed SWS but he is not with us today, we have only the Quran the protected.

Can you tell me what do you think about a HADITH in contradiction with the Quran ???

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[thetruth2009]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

What you said has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Assalam aleykoum,


What I wrote its the Quran, you do not know that it is about what you said.

Do you know my brother before you sleep read carefuly the SOURATE 7 and 103, you will find out by yourself that I did not write that for nothing.


Assalam aleykoum brother, Ask allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah, akhee.

Please define a hadeeth according to what you know.

The people who are able to tell us which narrations are by Allah's Messenger, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and whoch not, are called muhaddithoon, plural from muhaddith - Islamic scholars who are knowledgable in hadeeth sciences.

An authentic hadeeth is the word or deed of messenger Muhammad, sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and therefore it can't be contradictory to the Qur'an. It is only due to our lack of understanding that a saheeh hadeeth appears to be contradictory to the Qur'an. The same situation with some non-Muslims' approach to the Qur'an: due to their lack of understanding the Noble Qur'an appears contradictory to them.

And once again, please read the links above.

Was-Salam alayk.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Assalam aleykoum,


What I wrote its the Quran, you do not know that it is about what you said.

Do you know my brother before you sleep read carefuly the SOURATE 7 and 103, you will find out by yourself that I did not write that for nothing.


Assalam aleykoum brother, Ask allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

Still, you didn't reply to my post, you wrote about different things.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

Yes I forget only Sunni, will go to paradise, because you are part of the group approved.

Poor Shia, they will go to hell, why ?

What I see its you are following all people without questioning yourself if its true or not.

Can you give me a link, where I can find all the authentic HADITHS ?

Assalam aleykoum brother, thanking you in advance for the link.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

You read only what you write, not what others write, that's very unpolite from you. Till you don't learn how to respect others in a discussion, bye bye.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum brother,

I read your link, I do not reconize myself in it ?

ASSTARFOUR ALLAH, I am not QURANIST, never ever, I follow our prophte mohamed SWS and WORSHP Allah SWT.

Can you give me the link for HADITHS, thank you.

Assalam aleykoum brother.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum


This link does not work ?

http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=73&



Assalama Aleykoum brother.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

The things you don't understand or don't know them are described in the links above. A Qur'anist or not, some things you brought up are discussed in the book.

So, you didn't even open up the links, otherwise you'd know what's "in them."

You want me to show you how to drive a car, where you don't know what a car is. That's what are the links for.

So, till you really read what's written, was-salam alayk.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Assalam aleykoum


This link does not work ?

http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=73&



Assalama Aleykoum brother.

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

It works fine for me, I don't knwo what's the problem. Try to open it in a different browser or something like that.

[AabiruSabeel]

Bro thetruth2009, please go through these posts for the clarification of the status Hadith:
http://www.islamicboard.com/212874-post5.html

All praise is due to Allaah, and peace and blessings of Allaah be upon his Last and Final Messenger, his pure family, his noble Companions, and all those who follow them with righteousness until the Day of Judgment.

We have undoubtedly sent down the Reminder(al-dhikr), and We will truly preserve it. (Soorah al-Hijr:9)

This article is a humble attempt to eradicate the misconceptions that many non-Muslims and Muslims possess about the second source of the Shariah (Islaamic jurisprudence) namely the Sunnah.

This article is by no means a comprehensive coverage of the Sunnah, but rather an introductory article dispelling the myths surrounding ahadeeth [pl. of hadeeth]. I will attempt to avoid several sections such as the command to follow the Messenger as this is discussed in great detail by Allaamah al-Albaani (May Allaah have mercy on him) in his treatise, the Status of the Sunnah in Islaam

I pray, insha’Allaah, (God-Willing), that this article serves to remove the confusion and ignorance that the people are suffering from regarding this important issue and that it will save all those sincere seekers of truth from failing into major kufr by rejecting the ahadeeth.

The Definition of Hadeeth

The term hadeeth linguistically means a communication or a narrative. This is confirmed in the Glorious Qur’aan

Let them then produce a saying (hadeeth) like unto it. (Soorah at-Tur:34)

And when the Prophet spoke (Hadeeth) secretly to one of his wives. (Soorah at-Tahrim:3)

In the Shariah terminology, it refers to all that is transmitted from the Prophet, his deeds, his sayings, whatever he approved. According to the Muhadditheen (scholars of hadeeth), it is synonymous with the term Sunnah.

Myth #1 Ahadeeth were written 200 years after the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)

This misconception is based on the hadeeth mentioned in Saheeh Muslim (Second authenthic Hadeeth collection):

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that. (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

Those who use this hadeeth and argue that no ahadeeth were written are ignorant of the historical temporary prohibition of this statement. The temporary prohibition was meant as a precautionary step to ensure the correctness of the word of Allaah as distinguished from the words of the Prophet himself, as both came from the lips of the Prophet. This is one view and several other views are mentioned in the commentary on Saheeh Muslim by Imaam Al-Nawawi (May Allaah have mercy on him)


Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:

Al-Qaadi said: there were many disputes among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een concerning the writing down of knowledge. Many of them regarded this as being makrooh, but most of them regarded it as permissible. This dispute is no longer an issue.

They differed as to the meaning of this hadeeth which says that it is forbidden. It was said that this pertained to one who was sure of his memory, and there was the fear that he may rely upon what he had written if he wrote it down; the ahaadeeth which say that it is permissible to write things down is to be interpreted as referring to the one whose memory is not reliable, such as the hadeeth, “Write it down for Abu Shaah”; or the hadeeth of the saheefah of ‘Alee (may Allaah be pleased with him); the hadeeth of the book of ‘Amr ibn Hazm, which contains laws on inheritance, sunnahs and diyaat (blood money); the hadeeth about writing down charity, and the minimum amounts at which zakaah becomes obligatory (nisaab), with which Abu Bakr sent Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) to Bahrain; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which says that Ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas used to ; write things down but he (Abu Hurayrah) did not write things down, and other ahaadeeth. And it was said that the hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth.

The prohibition was in effect when there was the fear that (the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) might be mixed with the Qur’aan. When that danger was no longer present, permission was given to write down (ahaadeeth). And it was said that the prohibition mentioned in the hadeeth referred to writing ahaadeeth on the same page as Qur’aan, lest they become mixed and thus the reader would be confused when looking at this page. And Allaah knows best.

The hadeeth of Abu Shaah was narrated by al-Bukhaari from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said:
‘When Allaah granted His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) victory over Makkah, he stood before the people and praised and glorified Allaah, then he said: “Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate.” Al-‘Abbas said, “Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Except Al-Idhkhir.” Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Write it for Abu Shaah.” (al-Luqatah, 2254)

Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah (“Write it for Abu Shaah”) is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.

This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.

It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.

The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”
There are countless instructions from the Prophet instructing his companions to write down some ahadeeth.

One of the Ansaar (The Helpers) asked the Prophet if there was another way to preserve ahadeeth as he sometimes forgets them. The Prophet replied:

Seek help from your right hand, and pointed out to a writing. (Tirmidhi)

Raafi ibn Khadij (May Allaah be pleased with him) said:

I said to the Prophet that we hear from you many things, should we write them down?” He replied: You may write. There is no harm. (Tadreeb ar Raawi)

Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet said:

Preserve knowledge by writing. (At-Tabari Jaami ul Bayaan)

Abu Raafi (may Allaah be pleased with him) sought permission from the Prophet to write ahadeeth and the Prophet granted him that permission (Tirmidhi)

Salma (student of Ibn Abbaas) says:

I saw some small wooden boards with Abdullaah Ibn Abbaas. He was writing on them some reports of the acts of the Prophet which he acquired from Abu Raafi’. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)

Abdullaah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (May Allaah be pleased with him) reports that the Prophet said to him:

Preserve Knowledge

Abdullaah then asked,

how should it be preserved?

The Prophet replied,

by writing it.
(Mustadrik Haakim; Jaami ul Bayaan)

In another report, he says,

I came to the Prophet and told him, I want to narrate your ahadeeth. So, I want to take assistance of my handwriting besides my heart. Do you deem it fit for me?’

The Prophet replied,

If it is my hadeeth you may seek help from your hand besides your heart. (Daarimi)

He also says:

I used to write whatever I heard from the Prophet and wanted to learn it by heart. Some people of the Quraysh dissuaded me and said,
Do you write everything you hear from the Prophet, while he is a human being and sometimes he may be in anger as any other human beings may be? (Abu Dawood)

After Abdullaah ibn Amr conveyed their opinion to the Prophet, the Prophet replied by pointing to his lips and said:

I swear by the One in whose hands is the soul of Muhammad: nothing comes out from these two (lips) except truth(haqq). So, do write. (Abu Dawood; Tabaqaat ibn Sa’d; Mustadrik ul Haakim)

These narrations attest that ahadeeth were written during the era of the Prophet.

I will list here the prominent compilations written in the first and second century, some written by the sahabas (the Prophet’s companions), their students (taabi’een), and the students of the taabi’een (tabaa'at-taabi'een).

Some of the compilations during the era of the Prophet:

The Scripts of Abu Hurairah

Hasan ibn Amr reports that once:

Abu Hurairah took him to his home and showed him “many books” containing the ahadeeth of the Prophet. (Jaami’ Bayaan-ul-‘Ilm; Fath-ul-Baari)

The Script of Abdullaahi ibn Amr

Mujahid, his student, said

I went to Abdullaah ibn Amr and took in hand a script placed beneath his cushion. He stopped me. I said, You never save anything from me. He replied:

This is the Saadiqah (the Script of Truth). It is what I heard from the Prophet. No other narrator intervenes between him and myself. If this script, the Book of Allaah, and wahaz (his agricultural land) are secured for me, I would never care about the rest of the world. (Jaami’ Bayaan-ul-‘Ilm)

The Script of Anas

Sa’eed ibn Hilal, one of his students, says:

When we insisted upon Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) he would bring to us some notebooks and say, These are what I have heard and written from the Prophet, after which I have presented them to the Prophet for confirmation. (Mustadrik Haakim)

The Script of Alee

Alee said:

I have not written anything from the Prophet except the Qur’aan and what is contained in this script. (Saheeh Bukhaaree- Book of Jihaad)

Ibn Sa'd reports that Alee stood in the mosque and delivered a lecture then he asked the people:

Who will purchase ‘knowledge’ for one dirham only?

meaning, who wants to learn ahadeeth should buy writing paper for one dirham and come to him for dictation.

It is reported that Haarith al-A’war bought some paper and came to him:

So, Alee wrote for him a lot of knowledge. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)

Scripts of Jaabir

Qataadah, one of Jaabir’s students, says,

I remember the script of Jaabir more than I remember Surah al-Baqarah (Qur’aan). (Tahdheeb at-Tahdheeb)

Scripts of Ibn Abbaas

Musa ibn Uqbah says:

Kuraib left with us a camel load of Ibn Abbaas’s books. When Alee ibn Abdullaah ibn Abbaas would need any book from them, he wrote to Kuraib, ‘Send to me such and such books.’ He would then transcribe the book and send to him one of the two copies. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa’d)

The pupils of Ibn Abbaas would copy these scripts and read them over to him to confirm the correctness of the copies. (Tirmidhi)

Sometimes Ibn Abbaas would narrate the ahadeeth to his pupils while they would record them. (Daarimi)

The compilations of the First Century:

1. Book of Khalid ibn Ma’dan (d. 104)
2. Books of Abu Qilabah (d. 104). He bequeathed his books to his pupil, Ayyub Saktiyan (68-131 A.H.), who paid more than ten dirhams as a fare for them being loaded on a camel.
3. The script of Hammam ibn Munabbih,
4. Books of Hasan al-Basri (21-110 A.H.)
5. Books of Muhammad al-Baqir (56-114 A.H.)
6. Books of Makhul from Syria
7. Book of Hakam ibn ‘Utaibah
8. Book of Bukair ibn Abdullaah ibn al-Ashajj (d. 117)
9. Book of Qais ibn Sa’d (d. 117). This book later belonged to Hammad ibn Salamah.
10. Book of Sulaiman al-Yashkuri
11. Al-Abwaab of Sha’bi,
12. Books of Ibn Shihaab az-Zuhri
13. Book of Abul-Aliyah
14. Book of Sa’id ibn Jubair (d. 95)
15. Books of Umar ibn ‘Abdul Aziz (61-101 A.H.)
16. Books of Mujahid ibn Jabr (d. 103)
17. Book of Raja ibn Hywah (d. 112)
18. Book of Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad ibn Amr ibn Haq
19. Book of Bashir ibn Nahik.

The compilations of the second century (note that only the prominent ones are listed due length) :

1. Book of Abdul Malik ibn Juraij (d. 150)
2. Muwatta of Maalik ibn Anas (93-179)
3. Muwatta of Ibn Abi Zi’b (80-158)
4. Maghaazi of Muhammad ibn Ishaq (d. 151)
5. Musnad of Rabi’ ibn Sabih (d. 160)
6. Book of Sa’id ibn Abi ‘Arubah (d. 156)
7. Book of Hammad ibn Salmah (d. 167)
8. Jami’ Sufyan ath-Thauri (97-161)
9. Jami’ Ma’mar ibn Rashid (95-153)
10. Book of ‘Abdur-Rahman al-Awzaa’I (88-157)
11. Kitaab az-Zuhd by Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak (118-181)
12. Book of Hushaim ibn Bashir (104-183)
13. Book of Jarir ibn ‘Abdul-Hamid (110-188)
14. Book of Abdullaah ibn Wahb (125-197)
15. Book of Yahya ibn Abi Kathîr (d. 129)
16. Book of Muhammad ibn Suqah (d. 135)
17. Tafsîr of Zaid ibn Aslam (d. 136)
18. Book of Musa ibn ‘Uqbah (d. 141)
19. Book of Ash’ath ibn ‘Abdul-Malik (d. 142)
20. Book of Aqil ibn Khalid (d. 142)
21. Book of Yahya ibn Sa’id Ansari (d. 143)
22. Book of Awf ibn Abi Jamilah (d. 146)
23. Books of Jafar ibn Muhammad al-Sadiq (d. 148)
24. Books of Yunus ibn Yazid (d. 152)
25. Book of ‘Abdur-Rahman al-Mas’udi (d. 160)
26. Books of Zaidah ibn Qudamah (d. 161)
27. Books of Ibrahim al-Tahman (d. 163)
28. Books of Abu Hamzah al-Sukri (d. 167)
29. Al-Gharaaib by Shu’bah ibn al-Hajjaj (d. 160)
30. Books of Abdul-Aziz ibn ‘Abdullaah al-Majishun (d. 164)
31. Books of Abdullaah ibn ‘Abdullaah ibn Abi Uwais (d. 169)
32. Books of Sulaiman ibn Bilal (d. 172)
33. Books of Abdullaah ibn Lahi’ah (d. 147)
34. Jami’ Sufyan ibn ‘Uyainah (d. 198)
35. Kitaab-ul-AAthaar by Imaam Abu Haneefah (d. 150)
36. Maghaazi of Mu’tamir ibn Sulaiman (d. 187)
37. Musannaf of Waki’ ibn Jarrah (d. 196)
38. Musannaf of Abdur-Razzaaq ibn Hammam (136-221)
39. Musnad of Zaid ibn Alee (76-122)
40. Books of Imaam Shaafi’i (150-204)

The following are available today in printed form:

1. Al-Muwatta by Imaam Maalik.
2. Kitaab-ul-AAthaar by Imaam Abu Haneefah.
3. Musannaf by ‘Abdur-Razzaaq. This book has been published in eleven big volumes.
4. As-Seerah by Muhammad ibn Ishaq.
5. Kitaab az-Zuhd by ‘Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak.
6. Kitaab az-Zuhd by Waki’ ibn Jarraah (3 volumes).
7. Al-Musnad by Zaid ibn Alee (76-122).
8. Sunan of Imaam Shaafi’i.
9. Musnad of Shaafi’i.
10. Siyar of Awzaa’i (88-157).
11. Musnad of ‘Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak.
12. Musnad of Abu Daawood Tayalisi (d. 204).
13. Ar-Radd ‘ala Siyaril-Awzaa’i by Imaam Abu Yoosuf.
14. Al-Hujjah ‘ala Ahlil-Madeenah by Imaam Muhammad ibn Hasan Shaibaani.
15. Kitaabul-Umm by Imaam Shaafi’i.
16. Al-Maghaazi by Waqidi (130-206) (4 volumes).

Myth #2 Al-Hikmaah is an attribute of the Glorious Qur’aan

The Quraniyyah (Quran-alone group) argue that Al-Hikmaah mentioned in the Glorious Qur’aan refers to the Glorious Qur’aan instead of the Sunnah. They claim that it means mere 'Wisdom' and leave it at that.

In the linguistic sense, The term hikmaah means 'wisdom', 'aphorism', 'maxim', or 'gnome'. it is derived from the root h-k-m (haakaama) which means 'to rule or issue a judgement' and thus in the Shariah terminology, it refers to the Sunnah depending on the context.

The definition is eloquently explained by Imaam Shaaf’ee (may Allaah have mercy on him) who comments on the ayaat regarding the Kitaab (Qur’aan) and the Hikmaah (Sunnah):

Allaah (Exalted is He) mentioned the Kitaab, and that is the Qur'aan; He also mentioned Hikmaah. I have heard those whose opinion I trust among the people of knowledge of the Qur'aan say that Hikmaah means the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This supports what Allaah (Exalted is He) said - and Allaah knows best - because the Qur'aan is a reminder (dhikr) and hikmaah follows it, and Allaah mentioned that He lavished favour on His creatures by teaching them the Kitaab and Hikmaah. It is therefore impermissible - and Allaah knows best - to say that Hikmaah here is anything other than the Sunnah of Allaah's Messenger (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). That is because it is coupled (maqruna) with the Kitaab, and that Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a strict obligation, imposing upon people the absolute duty to follow his commands. Thus it is not permissible to say about anything that it is a strict obligation (fard) except about Allaah's Book and the Sunnah of His Messenger (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) due to what we just said, namely, that Allaah has coupled belief in His Messenger with belief in Him. (al-Risala (p. 78))

Allaah (Exalted is He) mentions the Hikmaah in several ayaat:

Allaah has surely blessed the believers with His favor when He raised in their midst a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, while they were, earlier in open error. (Soorah Al-Baqaraa:164)

He (Allaah) is the One who raised up, among the unlettered, a Messenger from among themselves who recites the verses of Allaah, and makes them pure, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom. (Soorah al-Joomooa:2)

Here Hikmaah is followed straight after the mentioning of Kitaab (Book). According to the Quraniyyah, it should read as:

He (Allaah) is the One who raised up, among the unlettered, a Messenger from among themselves who recites the verses of Allaah, and makes them pure, and teaches them the Book (Qur'aan) and the Wisdom (Qur'aan) (Soorah al-Joomooa:2)

This is grammatically incorrect since according to the Qur'aanic principle of mooghayaraa (differentiation), coupled words do not mean the same thing and indeed the Glorious Qur’aan is far above such mistakes.

Allaah (Exalted is He) says:

Do they not then consider the Qur'aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction. (Soorah An Nisaa: 82)

Myth #3 The Glorious Qur’aan does not need any explanation; it is complete.

The Quraniyyah group often introduce this claim to establish that the Glorious Qur’aan does not need any expounding based on a couple of ayaat. They seemingly twist the tafseer of these ayaat and introduce their distorted interpretation.

The revelation (wahy) is one, meaning that they come from same source, but are distinguished between the unrecited wahy (ghayr matluww) which is the Sunnah and the recited wahy (wahy matluww) which is the Glorious Qur’aan.

Allaah (Exalted is He) says:

He does not speak from his desires, Verily it is inspiration (unrecited revelation) which has been revealed. (Soorah an-Najm:3-4)

Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allaah have mercy on him) mentions in his treatise:

And the Sunnah with us are the aathaar (narrations) of the Messenger of Allaah (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Sunnah explains and clarifies the Qur’aan. It is the guide to the Qur’aan [containing evidences and indications as to its meanings and correct interpretations.]

Hassaan ibn Atiyyah said,

Jibreel used to descend upon the Messenger of Allaah with the Sunnah just as he used to descend with the Qur’aan.
Reported in Ash-Sharh wal-Ibaanah of Ibn Battah, p. and Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa of Shaikhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, 3/366.

Ibn Katheer said,

The Sunnah is decisive over the Book of Allaah.
Reported in ad-Daarimee, 1/144 and Ash-Sharh wal-lbaanah of Ibn Battah

Al-Suyuti says that

if one seeks the Quraan, he shall seek 'sunnah' because it is the commentary of the Quraan and its explanation

Daarimi says

that the sunnah is a Judge upon the Qur'aan and not the Qur'aan upon Sunnah. (Musnad Daarimi)

Imaam Ghazzaali says:

Allaah does not have two words, one in the Quraanic style which we are bidden to recite publicly, and called the Qur'aan, while the other word is not Qur'aan. Allaah has but one word which differs only in the mode of its expression. On occasions Allaah indicates His word by the Qur'aan; on others, by words in another style, not publicly recited (Sunnah), and called it the Sunnah. Both are mediated by the Prophet. (Mustasfa 1.125)

Ibn Khaldun explains:

The basis of all the traditional sciences is the legal material of the Qur'aan and the sunnah of the Prophet, which is the Shariah given us by Allaah and His Messenger, as well as the sciences connected with that material, by means of which we are enabled to use it. This, further, requires as auxiliary sciences the sciences of the Arabic language [that is, grammar, rhetoric, lexicography, etc.]. Arabic is the language of Islaam and the Qur'an was revealed in it.

The different kinds of traditional sciences are numerous, because it is the duty of the responsible Muslim to know the legal obligations Allaah placed upon him and upon his fellow men. The are derived from the Qur'aan and the sunnah of the Prophet, either from the text itself or through general consensus, or a combination of the two. Thus he must first study the explicit wordingof the Quran. This is the science of Qur'aan interpretation. Then he must study the Quran, both with reference to the manner in which it has been transmitted and related on the authority of the Prophet who brought it from Allaah, and with reference to the differences in the readings of the Quran readers. This is the science of Quranic "reading."
Muqaddimah

Without the unrecited wahy (sunnah), some of the provisions of the Shariah would have been left untouched or subjected to everyone’s opinion irrespective of their knowledge. To name an example: the command to establish the second pillar which is the salaah.

Allaah (Exalted is He) has ordered more than 73 times to observe it and yet the explanation is nowhere mentioned in the Glorious Qur’aan. Hence, through the sunnah of the Prophet, we learn the exact way of observing the salaah.

Ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) summed up the different aspects of explanations:

The explanation of the Qur'aan has four aspects to it. The first aspect comprises what is known by the Arabs by virtue of their language. When it is recited to the Arabs, they understand it. Then there are the explanations that no one is excused for not knowing. This includes the explanation of the verses related to Islamic legal injunctions and beliefs that people need to know. Then there are the explanations that are known only to scholars. These are subtle meanings that most people do not grasp. Then there are matters whose explanation is known only to Allaah. These are the four aspects of the explanation of the Qur’aan
Tafseer at-Tabaree

Thus, the Sunnah is an exposition of the Glorious Qur'aan by which its generalities are clarified and its intended meaning specified.


Myth #4 The ahadeeth is not protected.

Another popular belief among the Quraniyyah and the ignorant Muslims is the myth that the ahadeeth are not protected.

They cite the ayah in Soorah al-Hijr as proof. A clear examination of the ayah proves that Allaah (Exalted is He) has promised to protect His religion which includes the Qur’aan and the Sunnah. The ayah is:

Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).(Sooraah al-Hijr:9)

Al-Dhikr mentioned in the ayah has numerous meanings in the Glorious Qur’aan, it is sometimes for the Glorious Qur'aan as in

And this is a blessed Reminder (al-dhikr), which We have sent down: will you then (dare to) deny it? (Sooraah al-Anbiyaah:50)

And sometimes it is used for Sunnah, as in,

With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you the Dhikr, that you may tubayyina (explain clearly) to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (Soorah An-Nahl:44)

Ibn Hazm (May Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book ‘al-Ihkaam that

al-dhikr is a name that comprises all that Allaah revealed to His Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) be it the Qur'aan or the Sunnah. The Sunnah is also a revelation that explains the Qur'aan

Myth #5 Some authentic ahadeeth contradict the Glorious Qur’aan

Many Quraniyyah shift through the two saheeh volumes and assert that some ahadeeth contradict the Glorious Qur’aan. This reveals their lack of acquaintance with the ahadeeth sciences (Usool al-Hadeeth). They do not question that their interpretation might be erroneous and instead of looking at the commentaries of these ahadeeth, they brush them as ‘contradictory’ and thus ‘false’.

There are some apparent contradictions between narrations but that is because the sahabas narrated according to their own understanding of things that they have witnessed. A good example is the ahadeeth regarding Hajj (Pilgrimage). One of the narrators reported that the Prophet made an ifrad hajj because he heard the Prophet saying "I have presented myself in Your service to perform the Hajj". Others have narrated that the Prophet performed a qiran hajj. At the first glance, it seems contradictory since the qiran hajj is very different from the ifrad hajj, but in fact there are no contradictions between the narrations, since it is permissible for one performing qiran hajj to also say "I have presented myself in Your service to perform the Hajj"

Such apparant contradictions can cause confusions and hence why Allaah (Exalted is He) said in the Glorious Qur'aan to refer to ahl-quraan and the ahl-ahadeeth (ahl al-dhikr):

then ask those who possess the Message (Ahl al-Dhikr) if you do not know. (Soorah Al-Anbiya:7)

The general public cannot identify whether the hadeeth is said in a general context or particular matter, or that it is absolute or restricted or that it is abrogating is abrogated. Only the scholars (May Allaah have mercy on them) know these matters and can distinguish which is which, contrary to the ignorant Muslims who spend all their time declaring ahadeeth that opposess their intellect as contradictory.

Conclusion

Even though I have not covered the major aspects of the Sunnah, some of the misconceptions addressed are often repeated by many Muslims who are deceived by the Quraniyyah websites.

One of the main reason that many Muslims reject the second source is because it conveys the huddud punishments such as stoning and flogging so they reject to suit the desires of their masters (the enemies of Islaam).

They are ashamed that they might be called 'backwards' by their peers so they try to misinterpret the Glorious Qur'aan and the Sunnah.

Allaah (Exalted is He) addresses this:

Indeed, We have brought the Truth to you but most of them have a hatred for the Truth (al-Zukhruf:78)

And remember the words of the Prophet:

Fa-tooba lil-ghurabaa (tooba is for the Strangers)

Praise be to Allaah, The Lord of the Worlds.

I would also like you to read the following threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...nah-islam.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ion-islam.html

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

I will read it insha'allah do not worry, I will reply to you INSHA'ALLAH.

What about the link of HADITHS ? or somebody can give me a link where I can found the authentic haditsh ??

Assalam aleykoum brother, I apologize if I have done something wrong.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam Aleykoum brother Aabirusabell,


Thank you for the message, I will read it Insha'allah and I will reply to you all.

Assalam aleykoum, I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen

[AabiruSabeel]

It's difficult to provide an Online link of all the authentic Ahadeeth at one place.
You can find the Ahadeeth in the printed Books of Ahadeeth, such as Jami' As-Saheeh (Al-Bukhari), Saheeh Muslim, Abu Dawood, etc. You can find these books in any major Islamic book store, inshaAllah.

[thetruth2009]

Bro thetruth2009, please go through these posts for the clarification of the status Hadith:
http://www.islamicboard.com/212874-post5.html

I would also like you to read the following threads:

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...nah-islam.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ion-islam.html

Assalam aleykoum brother,

I read your post, I will prepare a reply to you insha'allah, If i am stil alive, Ameen.

Can you help me in one thing, I was wondering :

Allah SWT says in many verses in the Quran, that the Quran is clear, is it true or not ?

If the Quran is complicated, why is sent to all HUMANITY, its not logic no ?

What I want to say, its what I read and If I understand well your link, its the Hadits are here to explain the Quran, no ?

Why Allah SWT does't speak well ? he needs HUMAN to explain his message ?

Do you agree that most of all the Quran is understandable or not ? I will not put you all the verses of the Quran, you have it at home, if you want I can put them all, that Allah SWT says the Quran is easy to understand.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

PS : I am not Quoranic, I beleive to the Quran and Hadiths.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Sourate 5



48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[bamboozled]

Do you know what can unify us ?

1) Allah SWT, by sending the last messenger

2 ) The Quran , the most powerful book we can not imagine, and the protected one.

If only it were that simple brother. :cry: Shia have to be very careful as it is very possible they are committing shirk. But I cannot judge.

Shi'ites believe that the Angel Gabriel made a mistake in delivering the Quran, they do not believe in the Quran! Astagfirulahah.

The do not believe that Muhammed PBUH was the final messenger and are waiting for Ali PBUH to come back and take his place (I think its Ali, it was something to do over the confusion over who to elect after the Final Prophet Muhammad PBUH past away and when Abu Baker PBUH was eventually chosen)

Then do not pray 5 times a day, but instead 3.

They pray with there arms to their sides and their foreheads do not touch the floor when doing a sajda( sooo important that Muslims touch their forehead to the ground when doing a sajda. It is Sunnah for the forehead to touch the floor first then the tip of the nose, but thats not major, alsong as your forehead touches Inshallah thats okay then). They use a different Azhan.

They dont believe in all the five Pillars.

The list goes on.

I dont want to cause trouble brother, but be careful whenever around Shi'ites.

The concept on giving Imans infalibility is disucussed here, please watch it. It is dangerously close to Shirk in my opinion(thats me tying to be polite for Allah), only Allah is pure and has no bad thoughts, only Allah knows when we and how we are going to die only Allah, not Imans.

Dr Bilal Phillips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5spUkVNU1o

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uqWr...eature=related

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlrCE...eature=related
(lol at the title of the one above)

In a speach by Yusuf Qhadi he said he would not even pray behind a Shia. Neither would I.

Be careful brothers and sisters. Please watch the above videos.

Astagfirulahha

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,


Can you tell me if all SHIA they :


1) they beleive in the same GOD ? Allah SWT ?

2) pray 3 times a day or not ? because a lot of them they pray 5 times a day

3) they give ZAKAT ( who knows , who gives ZAKAT )

4) they fasten ?

5) they go to the HAJJ


If they do all the 5 pillars, what is the matter ?


You are talking about a few people, not all SHIA, I know some SHIA, they pray with me in the same mosque five times a day, I do not understand.


Assalam aleykoum brother.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

Not all branches of shi'ism are the same, but none of them is upon Qur'an and Sunnah. Some branches do not believe in Allah, swt.

And that are pillars of Islam, and you forgot pillars of Iman.

As Shi'as themselves say, tuqya (lying, deception) is 90% of their religion, which is not the case with any other belief system. Based on tuqya they find it OK to be with Sunnis and do what they do in order to try to make them rafidis.

[AabiruSabeel]

Can you help me in one thing, I was wondering :

Allah SWT says in many verses in the Quran, that the Quran is clear, is it true or not ?

If the Quran is complicated, why is sent to all HUMANITY, its not logic no ?

What I want to say, its what I read and If I understand well your link, its the Hadits are here to explain the Quran, no ?

Why Allah SWT does't speak well ? he needs HUMAN to explain his message ?

Do you agree that most of all the Quran is understandable or not ? I will not put you all the verses of the Quran, you have it at home, if you want I can put them all, that Allah SWT says the Quran is easy to understand.

Mufti Taqi Usmani says...

Does the Holy Qur'ân Need Explanation?

Before concluding this discussion, it is pertinent to answer a question often raised with reference to the explanation of the Holy Qur'ân. The question is whether the Holy Qur'ân needs anyone to explain its contents? The Holy Qur'ân in certain places seems to claim that its verses are self-explanatory, easy to understand and clear in their meanings. So, any external explanation should be uncalled for. Why, then, is the prophetic explanation so much stressed upon?
The answer to this question is found in the Holy Qur'ân itself. A combined study of the relevant verses reveals that the Holy Qur'ân deals with two different types of subjects. One is concerned with the general statements about the simple realities, and it includes the historic events relating to the former prophets and their nations, the statement of Allâh's bounties on mankind, the creation of the heavens and the earth, the cosmological signs of the divine power and wisdom, the pleasures of the Paradise and the torture of the Hell, and subjects of similar nature.
The other type of subjects consists of the imperatives of Sharî'ah, the provisions of Islâmic law, the details of doctrinal issues, the wisdom of certain injunctions and other academic subjects.
The first type of subject, which is termed in the Holy Qur'ân as Zikr (the lesson, the sermon, the advice) is, no doubt, so easy to understand that even an illiterate rustic can benefit from it without having recourse to anyone else. It is in this type of subjects that the Holy Qur'ân says:

And surely We have made the Qur'ân easy for Zikr (getting a lesson) so is there anyone to get a lesson? (54:22)

The words "for Zikr" (getting a lesson) signify that the easiness of the Holy Qur'ân relates to the subjects of the first nature. The basic thrust of the verse is on getting lesson from the Qur'ân and its being easy for this purpose only. But by no means the proposition can be extended to the inference of legal rules and the interpretation of the legal and doctrinal provisions contained in the Book. Had the interpretation of even this type of subjects been open to everybody irrespective of the volume of his learning, the Holy Qur'ân would have not entrusted the Holy Prophet with the functions of "teaching" and "explaining" the Book. The verses quoted earlier, which introduce the Holy Prophet as the one who "teaches" and "explains" the Holy Qur'ân, are explicit on the point that the Book needs some messenger to teach and interpret it. Regarding the type of verses which require explanation, the Holy Qur'ân itself says,

And these similitudes We mention before the people. And nobody understands them except the learned. (29:43)

Thus, the "easiness" of the subjects of the first type does not exclude the necessity of a prophet who can explain all the legal and practical implications of the imperatives contained in the Holy Qur'ân. (Taqi Usmani, The Authority of Sunnah, Chapter 2: The Scope of the Prophetic Authority, Source)

For more explanation, please go through the article Refuting The Argument That The Quran Is Complete; Therefore, We Don't Need Hadith

PS : I am not Quoranic, I beleive to the Quran and Hadiths.

Alhamdulillah, we all follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah. But the questions which are raised by you are mostly raised by those who do not believe in the Ahadeeth. So you will find us providing links that refute the claims of the Quran-only sect, please don't take that as an offence.

For further clarification, please go through the following threads. All your questions have already been answered/clarified before on this forum.

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...futations.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...nah-islam.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ion-islam.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/quran/14...an-sunnah.html

You can also go through the previous debate on this forum:
http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...ct-hadith.html

InshaAllah, all these articles will clarify any questions that you may have.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


Thank you brother Aabirusabeel, you always give me a lot to read, I have done anything wrong brother ? :)

No I am joking, thank you anyway for all you are giving me, I hope I will can read all before the end of the weekend INSHA'Allah,lol.

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[thetruth2009]

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

Not all branches of shi'ism are the same, but none of them is upon Qur'an and Sunnah. Some branches do not believe in Allah, swt.

And that are pillars of Islam, and you forgot pillars of Iman.

As Shi'as themselves say, tuqya (lying, deception) is 90% of their religion, which is not the case with any other belief system. Based on tuqya they find it OK to be with Sunnis and do what they do in order to try to make them rafidis.

Assalam aleykoum brother,

What I want to say, its I will never judge an Human, only Allah SWT can judge us.

Because I see people from our OUMAA, they judge ( jews, christians, atheist, shia or sunni it depends who you are ) after they send them to hell.

How its possible if we beleive in Allah SWT we have not act like that, how can we say I am better than.

Thank you for your links, I beleive in hadiths and Quran, hamdouliallah.


Assalam aleykoum brother.


PS : some Hadiths are lies, I will show you insha'allah.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam.

Yes, some hadtihs are lies, but not those marked as saheeh, as you mentioned before.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

Sorry but I am talking about saheeh, You will get news inshallah, you will be surprised.

I know nothing about the religion, only Allah SWt knows better, but there are lies that are obvious.


I do not want talk about this here, because we are talking about Infallibility of Imams - Shirk.

Assalam aleykoum brother.


I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.


PS : do not forget the powerful of SHAYTAN, IBLIS, DIABLO, DIABLE, DEVILE

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Wa alaykumus-Salam wa rahmatullah.

No saheeh hadeeth is a lie. I won't be surprised as I've seen similar attempts to discredit great muhadditheen earlier. All failed, and they'll continue to fail, as they're fighting against the truth.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,

I would like to meet the personn in this world, who is sure he has the truth.

I truth Muslim, will never say I am in the right path, and I am sure I will go to paradise, or I am well guided.

I hope we are well guided, what I am sure its not Scholars or Humans , who can guide us, but only Allah SWT.

I am always looking for the truth everyday, and I pray Allah SWT to guide me to that truth, I am always afrid do you know what ?

If you say even a lie and you belive it about Allah SWT , you can worship Allah SWT all your life you are lost.

You can not say to Allah SWT in the judment day, I was following Humans and they most me, you can not use that apologize.

I ask Alah SWT to forgive us brother and to guide us, Ameen.

[Abdu-l-Majeed]

Saying "I am on the Right path" is one thing, saying "I'll go to Paradise" is a totally different.

[Binyamine]

Peace Mercy And Blessing of Allah be upon all of us.

Check this video please:

Site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx_uqROgn5A

By Dr Zakir Naik [ May Allah increase his knowledge]

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Also:

Surah 41:33

Who is better in speech than one who calls (men) to Allah, works righteousness, and says "I am one of the Muslims." (33)

Surah 3:64

Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say: ye! "Bear witness that we are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)." (64)

Surah 3:52

When Jesus found unbelief on their part, he said: "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the Disciples: "We are Allah's helpers we believe in Allah and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. (52)

Surah 5:111

"And behold! I inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said `We have faith and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'." (111)

Surah 22:78

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline): He has chosen you and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector― the― Best to protect and the Best to help! (78)

But in front of a shi'a, you should say, yeah we are muslims, but sunni muslims.

[Yusuf -Jamal]

LOL- CANT BELIEVE SOME MIS- CONCEPTIONS REGARDING SHIA'S

THE SHIAS DO BELIEVE IN ALLAH, MUHAMMAD saw, QURAN ETC.

THEY PRAY 3 TIMES BECAUSE THEY COMBINE ZOHAR JUS BEFORE ASAR TIME AND MAGHRIB WITH ESHA.

THEY DO GIVE ZAKAH
THEY DO HAJJ,
THEY DO FAST.
THEY DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER 'MECCA' IN IRAN OR SOMETHING.
WITH REGARDS TO INFALLIBILTY OF IMAMS - ITS NOT IMPROTANT.

RESEARCH & PERFECT UR OWN WAYS - THAT SHOULD EASILY OCCUPY 70/80 YEARS.

AND DNT BE SO QUICK TO CALL OTHERS KAFIR. IF THESE DIFFERENCES WERE SO EASY TO PUT STRAIGHT THEN THE DIFFERENCES WOULD NEVER HAVE MATERILIASED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
:sl:

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

WITH REGARDS TO INFALLIBILTY OF IMAMS - ITS NOT IMPROTANT.

It's actually very important since it has to do with 'Aqeedah, and since this belief is a deviant and corrupt belief, it is very important to refute it lest it mislead people.