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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:27 PM
I couldnt attend my usual masjid today (Hanfia) as no transport, so I walked to the nearest one which happened to be ahmidiyyah. I was made welcome and listened to a sermon by the imam via some sort of video link, it was about a 33rd conference that had grew 5 times its size in 24 yrs. There was something different, moslty men were shaved, different type of prayer hat and seemed to be from a particular country or race. They were very friendly to me though it was a smaller gathering than the mosque I usually attend and the guy who prayed next to me was crying while offering salaat. From what I understood there were no difference in prayer apart from they seemed to hold the left elbow rather than lower forearm. Alhamdulillah still same shahada. So could someone please tell me what is the difference with what I beleive which I guess is Sunni, as I follow Qur'an and Prophet Muhammads example, and the people of Ahmidiyyah. May Allah bestow his peace, blessings and mercy on all Muslims, Ameen.
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celina
07-31-2009, 02:31 PM
Aslam

They may not be muslim, I am not sure, aren't they ahmadis they are not hanafis.
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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:33 PM
Thanks sister but I think you should edit, they are definatley muslims^^^^^^
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convert
07-31-2009, 02:34 PM
they are kafir. im sorry bro, your jumaa was invalid.

http://www.romanizedarabic.com/withlovetoahmadis/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhA1T...e=channel_page
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A.M.H.
07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
:sl:

They are not Muslims .they believes in some other prophets

:w:
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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by convert
Thanks bro, no brother my intention was clear, if I learn something that means I should not go then I do, then I think my jummuah will be void. But this one counts I am sure, Allah knows best
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celina
07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
I have heard about them to be honest I don't know what to say lets wait for other people to respond to your post, someone with better knowledge should help you I don't want to say anything that is not right.
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Ali_008
07-31-2009, 02:37 PM
:sl:

They're the most controversial sect with the most pathetic innovations. They're not Muslims.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/45525/mirza
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/4060/mirza

:w:
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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:38 PM
Ok the link explains it, I do not beleive they are correct about the extended line of Prophethood, Jazak Allahu Khyran for your guidance. I already decided it was not for me, but I prayed there not knowing the difference, so my jummuah is valid yes ?
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celina
07-31-2009, 02:38 PM
The other brothers are right, I don't believe your jummah was valid, their beliefs are different to the hanafis.
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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by celina
The other brothers are right, I don't believe your jummah was valid, their beliefs are different to the hanafis.
OK then I am sad for the loss, but surely my innocent intention would make it valid, if I already knew it was haraam i would have prayed at home. After all I went to mosque for the pleasure of Allah not to affiliate with any strange perversion of Islam
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Ali_008
07-31-2009, 02:43 PM
^^^ How was their khutbah? I mean was it any different from the ones you usually hear with durood on the Prophet and mention of the 4 caliphs and Hasan, Husayn, Hamza and Abbas (RadhiAllahu Anhum). And did the Imam recite the proper surahs of the Qur'an. If these were right, I guess, your Jumuah remains valid.

Wallahu Alim
And Allah Knows Best
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convert
07-31-2009, 02:44 PM
Actually he may have a point. I know I've been in situations where the khatib said some really ridiculous stuff (i.e. "O Prophet of Allah [saw], please forgive us..."). I asked a learned person if my jumaa was valid because I was unaware the guy was on this kinda stuff and the sheikh gave me proof that it was ok but never to go there again. Allahu alam the brother might be in the same situation. He should clarify with someone of knowledge however.
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Tony
07-31-2009, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
^^^ How was their khutbah? I mean was it any different from the ones you usually hear with durood on the Prophet and mention of the 4 caliphs and Hasan, Husayn, Hamza and Abbas (RadhiAllahu Anhum). And did the Imam recite the proper surahs of the Qur'an. If these were right, I guess, your Jumuah remains valid.

Wallahu Alim
And Allah Knows Best
Well to be honest it was this video link imam just talking about the ahmidiyyah convention. Allah knows best and even if invalid, Allah knows my intent was pure. Maybe Allah wanted me to learn something by guiding me there. What I am conscerned about is what if I go to a mosque sometime that is not proper, how many more split offs are there and why would people believe this when it so obviously wrong, I dont get it at all. Thanks for all your responses and guidance
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'Abd-al Latif
07-31-2009, 03:11 PM
Qadianiyyah in the light of Islam

Q.I appeal to you to answer the questions that I have previously submitted or to answer the one that follows, as the problem has for months caused me nothing but trouble in my local community. Even if I had the support of a fatwa, it might not help because this local community does not respect the ulama, but at least I would know that I am not erring.
I know that you cannot answer all questions, but surely something as important as this cannot be ignored. It is Ramadan and I hope for your answer.
1. If someone is not a qadiani but knows that they believe in a false prophet and accepts qadianis as a madhab in Islam, are they out of Islam? I believe that they are out of Islam, and I am acting on that belief in my conduct towards such people.

A.Praise be to Allaah.

Definition:

Qadianiyyah is a movement that started in 1900 CE as a plot by the British colonialists in the Indian subcontinent, with the aim of diverting Muslims away from their religion and from the obligation of jihaad in particular, so that they would not oppose colonialism in the name of Islam. The mouthpiece of this movement is the magazine Majallat Al-Adyaan (Magazine if Religions) which was published in English.

Foundation and prominent personalities:

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (1839-1908 CE) was the main tool by means of which Qadianiyyah was founded. He was born in the village of Qadian, in the Punjab, in India, in 1839 CE. He came from a family that was well known for having betrayed its religion and country, so Ghulam Ahmad grew up loyal and obedient to the colonialists in every sense. Thus he was chosen for the role of a so-called prophet, so that the Muslims would gather around him and he would distract them from waging jihaad against the English colonialists. The British government did lots of favours for them, so they were loyal to the British. Ghulam Ahmad was known among his followers to be unstable, with a lot of health problems and dependent on drugs.

Among those who confronted him and his evil da’wah was Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ Thana’ al-Amritsari, the leader of Jama’iyyat Ahl al-Hadeeth fi ‘Umoom al-Hind (The All-India Society of Ahl al-Hadeeth). The Shaykh debated with him and refuted his arguments, revealing his ulterior motives and Kufr and the deviation of his way. When Ghulam Ahmad did not come to his senses, Shaykh Abu’l-Wafa’ challenged him to come together and invoke the curse of Allaah, such that the one who was lying would die in the lifetime of the one who was telling the truth. Only a few days passed before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani died, in 1908 CE, leaving behind more than fifty books, pamphlets and articles, among the most important of which are: Izaalat al-Awhaam (Dispelling illusions), I’jaaz Ahmadi (Ahmadi miracles), Baraaheen Ahmadiyyah (Ahmadi proofs), Anwaar al-Islam (Lights of Islam), I’jaaz al-Maseeh (Miracles of the Messiah), al-Tableegh (Conveying (the message))and Tajalliyyaat Ilaahiyyah (Divine manifestations).

Noor al-Deen (Nuruddin): the first Khaleefah of the Qadianis. The British put the crown of Khilaafah on his head, so the disciples (of Ghulam Ahmad) followed him. Among his books is: Fasl al-Khitaab (Definitive statement).

Muhammad Ali and Khojah Kamaal al-Deen: the two leaders of the Lahore Qadianis. They are the ones who gave the final shape to the movement. The former produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. His other works include: Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam) and al-Deen al-Islami (The Islamic religion). As for Khojah Kamaal al-Deen, he wrote a book called al-Mathal al-A’laa fi’l-Anbiya’ (The highest example of the Prophets), and other books. This Lahore group of Ahmadis are those who think of Ghulam Ahmad as a Mujaddid (renewer or reviver of Islam) only, but both groups are viewed as a single movement because odd ideas that are not seen in the one will surely be found in the other.

Muhammad Ali: the leader of the Lahore Qadianis. He was one of those who gave the final shape to Qadianiyyah, a colonialist spy and the person in charge of the magazine which was the voice of the Qadianiyyah. He also produced a distorted translation into English of the Qur’aan. Among his works are Haqeeqat al-Ikhtilaaf (The reality of differences), and al-Nubuwwah fi’l-Islam (Prophethood in Islam), as stated above.

Muhammad Saadiq, the mufti of the Qadianiyyah. His works include: Khatim al-Nabiyyeen The seal of the Prophets).

Basheer Ahmad ibn Ghulam. His works include: Seerat al-Mahdi (the life of the Mahdi) and Kalimat al-Fasl (Decisive word).

Mahmood Ahmad ibn Ghulam, his second Khaleefah. Among his works are: Anwaar al-Khilaafah (Lights of the caliphate), Tuhfat al-Mulook and Haqeeqat al-Nubuwwah (The reality of prophethood).

The appointment of the Qadiani Zafar-Allaah Khan as the first Foreign Minister of Pakistan had a major effect in supporting this deviant sect, as he gave them a large area in the province of the Punjab to be their world headquarters, which they named Rabwah (high ground) as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… And We gave them refuge on high ground (rabwah), a place of rest, security and flowing streams.” [al-Mu’minoon 23:50].

Their thought and beliefs


Ghulam Ahmad began his activities as an Islamic daa’iyah (caller to Islam) so that he could gather followers around him, then he claimed to be a mujaddid inspired by Allaah. Then he took a further step and claimed to be the Awaited Mahdi and the Promised Messiah. Then he claimed to be a Prophet and that his prophethood was higher than that of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

The Qadianis believe that Allaah fasts, prays, sleeps, wakes up, writes, makes mistakes and has intercourse – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say.

The Qadiani believes that his god is English because he speaks to him in English.

The Qadianis believe that Prophethood did not end with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but that it is ongoing, and that Allaah sends a messenger when there is a need, and that Ghulam Ahmad is the best of all the Prophets.

They believe that Jibreel used to come down to Ghulam Ahmad and that he used to bring revelation to him, and that his inspirations are like the Qur’aan.

They say that there is no Qur’aan other than what the “Promised Messiah” (Ghulam Ahmad) brought, and no hadeeth except what is in accordance with his teachings, and no Prophet except under the leadership of Ghulam Ahmad.

They believe that their book was revealed. Its name is al-Kitaab al-Mubeen and it is different from the Holy Qur’aan.

They believe that they are followers of a new and independent religion and an independent Sharee’ah, and that the friends of Ghulam are like the Sahaabah.

They believe that Qadian is like Madeenah and Makkah, if not better than them, and that its land is sacred. It is their Qiblah and the place they make hajj to.

They called for the abolition of jihaad and blind obedience to the British government because, as they claimed, the British were “those in authority” as stated in the Qur’aan.

In their view every Muslim is a Kaafir unless he becomes a Qadiani, and everyone who married a non-Qadiani is also a kaafir.

They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.

Intellectual and ideological roots

The westernizing movement of Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan paved the way for the emergence of the Qadianiyyah, because it had already spread deviant ideas.

The British made the most of this opportunity so they started the Qadiani movement and chose a man from a family that had a history of being agents of the colonialists.

In 1953 CE, there was a popular revolution in Pakistan which demanded the removal of Zafar-Allaah Khan from the position of Foreign Minister and that the Qadiani sect should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority. In this uprising around ten thousand Muslims were martyred, and they succeeded in having the Qadiani minister removed from office.

In Rabee’ al-Awwal 1394 AH (April 1974), a major conference was held by the Muslim World League in Makkah, which was attended by representatives of Muslim organizations from around the world. This conference announced that this sect is Kaafir and is beyond the pale of Islam, and told Muslims to resist its dangers and not to cooperate with the Qadianis or bury their dead in Muslim graveyards.

The Majlis al-Ummah in Pakistan (the central parliament) debated with the Qadiani leader Mirza Naasir Ahmad, and he was refuted by Shaykh Mufti Mahmood (may Allaah have mercy on him). The debate went on for nearly thirty hours but Naasir Ahmad was unable to give answers and the Kufr of this group was exposed, so the Majlis issued a statement that the Qadianis should be regarded as a non-Muslim minority.

Among the factors that make Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an obvious Kaafir are the following:

His claim to be a Prophet

His abolition of the duty of jihaad, to serve the interests of the colonialists.
His saying that people should no longer go on Hajj to Makkah, and his substitution of Qadian as the place of pilgrimage.

His anthropomorphism or likening Allaah to human beings.

His belief in the transmigration of souls and incarnation.

His attributing a son to Allaah and his claim to be the son of God.

His denying that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his regarding the door of Prophethood to be open to “any Tom, Dick or Harry”.

The Qadianis have strong ties with Israel. Israel has opened centres and schools for them, and helped them to publish a magazine which is their mouthpiece, to print books and publications for distribution worldwide.

The fact that they are influenced by Judaism, Christianity and al-Baatiniyyah is clear from their beliefs and practices, even though they claim to be Muslims.

Their spread and positions of influence

Most of the Qadianis nowadays live in India and Pakistan, with a few in Israel and the Arab world. They are trying, with the help of the colonialists, to obtain sensitive positions in all the places where they live.

The Qadianis are very active in Africa and in some western countries. In Africa they have more than 5,000 teachers and dai’yahs working full-time to call people to Qadianiyyah. Their wide-spread activity proves that they have the support of the colonialists.

The British government is also supporting this movement and making it easy for their followers to get positions in world governments, corporate administration and consulates. Some of them are also high-ranking officers in the secret services.

In calling people to their beliefs, the Qadianis use all kinds of methods, especially educational means, because they are highly-educated and there are many scientists, engineers and doctors in their ranks. In Britain there is a satellite TV channel called Islamic TV which is run by the Qadianis.

From the above, it is clear that:

Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs.

For more information see: Al-Qadianiyyah by Ihsaan Ilaahi Zaheer.

(Translator’s note: this book is available in English under the title “Qadiyaniat: an analytical survey” by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer)

Reference: Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Muyassarah fi’l-Adyaan al-Madhaahib wa’l-Ahzaab al-Mu’aasirah by Dr. Maani’ Hammad al-Juhani, 1/419-423

The following statement was published by the Islamic Fiqh Council (Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami):

After discussing the question put to the Islamic Fiqh Council in Capetown, South Africa, concerning the ruling on the Qadianis and their off-shoot which is known as Lahoriyyah, and whether they should be counted as Muslims or not, and whether a non-Muslim is qualified to examine an issue of this nature:

In the light of research and documents presented to the members of the council concerning Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani, who emerged in India in the last century and to whom is attributed the Qadiani and Lahori movements, and after pondering the information presented on these two groups, and after confirming that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be a prophet who received revelation, a claim which is documented in his own writings and speeches, some of which he claimed to have received as revelation, a claim which he propagated all his life and asked people to believe in, just as it is also well-known that he denied many other things which are proven to be essential elements of the religion of Islam.

In the light of the above, the Council issued the following statement:


Firstly: the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet or a messenger and to receive revelation are clearly a rejection of proven and essential elements of Islam, which unequivocally states that Prophethood ended with Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and that no revelation will come to anyone after him. This claim made by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad makes him and anyone who agrees with him an apostate who is beyond the pale of Islam. As for the Lahoriyyah, they are like the Qadianiyyah: the same ruling of apostasy applies to them despite the fact that they described Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a shadow and manifestation of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Secondly: it is not appropriate for a non-Muslim court or judge to give a ruling on who is a Muslim and who is an apostate, especially when this goes against the consensus of the scholars and organizations of the Muslim Ummah. Rulings of this nature are not acceptable unless they are issued by a Muslim scholar who knows all the requirements for being considered a Muslim, who knows when a person may be deemed to have overstepped the mark and become an apostate, who understands the realities of Islam and kufr, and who has comprehensive knowledge of what is stated in the Qur’aan, Sunnah and scholarly consensus. The ruling of a court of that nature is invalid. And Allaah knows best.

Majma’ al-Fiqh al-Islami, p. 13

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4060
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Tony
07-31-2009, 03:22 PM
Whoa, wierd stuff. Something else I noticed of those who shook my hand, I Said assalamu aleiykum but none replied it. So I have witnessed abomination first hand, feels a bit strange now. Thanks for all guidance brothers and sisters. Also this must be one of the false Mahdis then, canrt believe the place is just roiund the corner from me, May Allah cause them to consider their errors and come to Islam, Ameen
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AabiruSabeel
07-31-2009, 03:28 PM
Bro, it's better if you just repeat your prayer by praying 4 Rakat Zuhr asap.

Praying behind an Imam who does not believe in the Finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad :saws1: itself makes your prayer invalid. Leave alone listening to Khutbah on video and other things...
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Tony
07-31-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
Bro, it's better if you just repeat your prayer by praying 4 Rakat Zuhr asap.

Praying behind an Imam who does not believe in the Finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad :saws: itself makes your prayer invalid. Leave alone listening to Khutbah on video and other things...
I think I have to wait for Asr now bro, I start getting worried, it was such an honest mistake but seems I may be in danger of punishment or something, if I had known what it was about I wouldnt have gone, but I missed last tewo jummuahs and needed to go, my wife and kids have to drive 12,00 miles this weekend and I wanted to ask for their safety. I already said for 5 years now that I am only interested in Qur'an and Muhammads example, nothing changed. Now I starting to feel a bit down about it and it sickens me that Muslims feel the need to split off and lead people from the true path, honestly its making me feel like crying. I just want to be the best I can for Allah and my children, I want to follow Islam and I give all thanks and praise to Him alone
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celina
07-31-2009, 03:38 PM
Brother you didn't do it on purpose, just repent or even pay a little money maybe towards the poor it could even be a small amount, intentions count. Don't be upset you just made a mistake and Allak forgives inshAllah.
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AabiruSabeel
07-31-2009, 03:43 PM
...it was such an honest mistake but seems I may be in danger of punishment or something...
I don't think you will be punished for it. Allah says at the end of Surah Al-Baqarah:
... "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; ... [2:286]
We are not taken into account for forgetfulness and such errors, inshaAllah.

You don't have to wait till Asr time, that will make your Zuhr Qadha. Better repeat the Zuhr asap, and it will be ok inshaAllah.
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Tony
07-31-2009, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
I don't think you will be punished for it. Allah says at the end of Surah Al-Baqarah:
... "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; ... [2:286]
We are not taken into account for forgetfulness and such errors, inshaAllah.

You don't have to wait till Asr time, that will make your Zuhr Qadha. Better repeat the Zuhr asap, and it will be ok inshaAllah.
JZK brother. Funny thing is I always pray this verse after Al Fatihah in any second rakaat. Im off to pray insha'Allah it will be ok
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alcurad
07-31-2009, 03:51 PM
brother, other than repeating the prayer, you don't need to do anything. there is nothing wrong in what you did given that you didn't know etc.
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Tony
07-31-2009, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
brother, other than repeating the prayer, you don't need to do anything. there is nothing wrong in what you did given that you didn't know etc.
Thanks brother thats what I thought, anyhow I prayed, asked forgiveness and promised Allah its first and last. Feel loads better, its sad how many children were there, may Allah guide them to the right way, Ameen
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Ali_008
07-31-2009, 03:59 PM
A great point raised in one of the posts above was the occurence of the false Dajjaals not the Mahdis. Rasoolullah (SallAllahu Alayhi Wasallam) did warn us that there will be 30 false Dajjaals before the arrival of the original one. So One we can take it to be Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and there were people who claimed to be prophets during the caliphate of Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Hadhrat `Umar (RadhiAllahu Anhuma). There was also OSHO who claimed to be the Almighty himself. So is anybody counting if the count's reached 30??? :?
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MSalman
07-31-2009, 05:08 PM
:sl:

Let us not speak without knowledge regarding brother's salah. Brother Tony, I have asked some knowledgeable brothers regarding your situation. Please check the answer here when someone responds, insha'Allah
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aadil77
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Tony
Whoa, wierd stuff. Something else I noticed of those who shook my hand, I Said assalamu aleiykum but none replied it. So I have witnessed abomination first hand, feels a bit strange now. Thanks for all guidance brothers and sisters. Also this must be one of the false Mahdis then, canrt believe the place is just roiund the corner from me, May Allah cause them to consider their errors and come to Islam, Ameen
lol brother thats nothing, you don't know how freaked out I got when once I accidently went to a shi'a mosque, they had these baskets around the place with these clay circle things, then i saw someone i knew nd asked him about them and he said that they pray on them, I was shocked I didn't know the guy was shia and the mosque was either, so then I quickly got off
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Tony
07-31-2009, 05:28 PM
^^^lol. theres some funny things going on in the name of Islam eh
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MSalman
07-31-2009, 06:11 PM
^lol, akh, you have yet to see some funny stuff. Dajjal Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, may Allah give him what he deserves, claimed that he was first Issa (Jesus), then became Mahdi and then Prophet. Let us read how beautifully he narrates, how he became Issa, in his book:
God named me Mary in the third volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. I was nurtured for two years as Mary and was raised in a womanly seclusion. Then, the spirit of Jesus was breathed into me just as was done with Mary. Hence, I was considered to be pregnant in a metaphorical manner. After a period of several months, not exceeding ten, I was made Jesus out of Mary by the revelation embodied in the last part of the fourth volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya; and thus, I became Jesus, son of Mary. But, God did not inform me of this secret at that time. [Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 50; Kashti-i-Nuh, P. 46-47]
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rpwelton
08-20-2009, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Tony
I think I have to wait for Asr now bro, I start getting worried, it was such an honest mistake but seems I may be in danger of punishment or something, if I had known what it was about I wouldnt have gone, but I missed last tewo jummuahs and needed to go, my wife and kids have to drive 12,00 miles this weekend and I wanted to ask for their safety. I already said for 5 years now that I am only interested in Qur'an and Muhammads example, nothing changed. Now I starting to feel a bit down about it and it sickens me that Muslims feel the need to split off and lead people from the true path, honestly its making me feel like crying. I just want to be the best I can for Allah and my children, I want to follow Islam and I give all thanks and praise to Him alone
I pray that Allah gives you strength in Ramadan. Allahu alim what the correct ruling is on your prayer - you should go to a scholar in your area for that if you can. The best thing about this whole experience is that you now know about this misguided group and to stay away from their masjid.
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M..x
08-20-2009, 08:46 PM
OMD. I cant believe this... How disgusting & twisted is that?! Shocking.. Bro Tony, dun't dwell over a complete innocent mistake, Allah is All Forgiving... Make up for that prayer InshAllah & I hope He guides these people. Amen
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