are christians Kafroon ?

[mariam521]

:sl:
this question always comes to my mind

does Islam consider christens kafroon or non believers because they don't believe in the prophet Mohammad (SAAW) and the quran?

and do they all go to hell even the ones who spent their lives worshiping God ?

please I need an asnwer to my question

Regards

[glo]

Can you explain what kafroon means?

[Brasco]

Kafiroon means disbelievers, the ones who reject the faith (islam), the ones who deny the message (islam) and so on :) Simply, it means non-muslims.

[mariam521]

Brasco

thanks for explaining,

Glo
read brasco's reply he explained it

thank you guys for passing by

I am still waiting for the answer =(

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[glo]

Danke, Brasco. :)
I didn't recognise the 'kafir' bit, otherwise I might have realised.

Kafir = non-believer, is that right?

[glo]

Brasco

thanks for explaining,

Glo
read brasco's reply he explained it

thank you guys for passing by

I am still waiting for the answer =(

I got confused, because I understood that you were asking whether Christians were considered kafirs or non-believers ...

[mariam521]

Danke, Brasco. :)
I didn't recognise the 'kafir' bit, otherwise I might have realised.

Kafir = non-believer, is that right?

sorry I didn't write the word correctly

my apologies :embarrass

[mariam521]

I got confused, because I understood that you were asking whether Christians were considered kafirs or non-believers ...

and I should have said kafirs (non-believers)

sorry , this is my first topic ^-^

[Brasco]

Everyone who rejects Islam, Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, is a Kafir.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

After the knowledge of Islam has come to them and they reject it willingly, they are kafir. Correct me if I'm wrong InshaAllah.

:sl:

[Brasco]

There are three types of Kuffar: 1- Dhimmis (people of the book) who live in an islamic state with restricted rights. 2 - Harbis, these are the enemies of islam. and they have no rights! 3 - Mustamins, people who get temporally a contract being like Dhimmis

Well, it is not full of details, but insha'allah you get an idea of it!

[anatolian]

:sl:
this question always comes to my mind

does Islam consider christens kafroon or non believers because they don't believe in the prophet Mohammad (SAAW) and the quran?

and do they all go to hell even the ones who spent their lives worshiping God ?

please I need an asnwer to my question

Regards

Salam aleykum. According to Quran those who claim the trinity are kafiroon. Are the non-trinitarian christians also kafiroon? I don't know very well..I also don't know wheter they go hell or heaven..

[anatolian]

Danke, Brasco. :)
I didn't recognise the 'kafir' bit, otherwise I might have realised.

Kafir = non-believer, is that right?

Kafiroon is the plural form of kafir in Arabic.

[Brasco]

the only religion with allah ta'ala is al islam! :) so it means all will go hell except the one whose religion is al islam (of course behaving also in an islamic way)

[جوري]

Christians are mushriks.. just as bad as a kaffir
kaffir means to deny the existence of Allah, Mushrik means associating partners with him, which is what Christians do when they make Jesus and the holy spirits into god along with Allah

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


I do not want to say anything tonight, because I will see my messages deleted again.



I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us, Ameen.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

..kaffir means to deny the existence of Allah,

So , kaffir and Atheists have same meaning ?

Anyway for all , we must remember that among non-Muslims , Jews and Christians are regarded as people of the holy book .

Made lawful to you this day are AtTayyibat (all kinds of Halal (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.).

The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends.

And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allah and in all the other Articles of Faith (i.e. His (Allahs), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and AlQadar (Divine Preordainments)), then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.


( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #5)

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

because I will see my messages deleted again.

.

O bro , don't be sad. It's happening to many of us all the time :(

[AsMay]

Al salamoo Alekom all brothers and sisters...
I blv that as you've all said that non muslims all do not go to heaven but those who do good deeds and pray to god in life who are non muslims Allah grants them joy and pays them in life for such good deeds since after all Allah is merciful ... peace to you all

[جوري]

:sl:



So , kaffir and Atheists have same meaning ?

Anyway for all , we must remember that among non-Muslims , Jews and Christians are regarded as people of the holy book .

Made lawful to you this day are AtTayyibat (all kinds of Halal (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.).

The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends.

And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allah and in all the other Articles of Faith (i.e. His (Allahs), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and AlQadar (Divine Preordainments)), then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.


( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #5)

excellent post.. there are different levels of kufr, just like there are different forms of shirk..
many Muslims commit at times what we call shirk asghar .. when they say for instance 'sydna mursai abu il3abas' a founder of some town in Alexandria, or ya Ali or ya Hussain, to call upon any other than Allah.. also there are certain bida3 that go into the category of shirk.. talisamans and what nots...

same for kuffr, I imagine the ultimate kufr is atheism but certainly you can have that in Judaism, christianity, hinduism, etc


and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[abu_musab461]

The condition for entering Paradise and being elegible for the Mercy of Allah (swt)- is not as the christians say "accept jesus/son of god/ savoiur etc" in essencnce associate partners with Allah (swt) rather it is to believe in Allah (swt) Who Alone has the Right to be worshipped and has no partners.

And to do good deeds- believe and follow what Allah (swt) has defined as good.

[Rasema]

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

1. Allah detests those who reject the truth,Him,his messangers,and his message.

2. Their iman in Allah is not complete. Allah has created the Earth and everything else with the truth. Before the big bang there was no time or space. Allah is separate from time and space, he is above his creation. Allah created everything by himself and no one has helped him nor has anyone else created anything without Allah's will. Therefore, he alone deserves to be worshiped and to him alone belong all the beautiful names.

3.They don't differentiate much between God and his creation. For example, they say that Jesus(pbuh) is perfect and eternal. He was not free of need. Meleks commit no sins does that mean I should worship them!!
They also attribute God's names to Jesus.

4.THEY COMMIT SHIRK. Shirk is when you like or love someone as Allah or more than Allah,spw. A believer must love Allah and fear Allah more than anything else. That does not mean that you don't love your loved ones, It is in a human nature to love family etc..

5. They commit idolatery. It is idolatery to believe that God resides in objects or people.

6. http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/26721...0non%20muslims

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/11793...0non%20muslims

7. Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying. (28) Ali I mran28

Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide. (80) If they believed in Allah and the Prophet and that which is revealed unto him, they would not choose them for their friends. But many of them are of evil conduct. (81) El- Maide


Those who chose disbelievers for their friends instead of believers! Do they look for power at their hands? Lo! all power appertaineth to Allah. (139) He hath already revealed unto you in the Scripture that, when ye hear the revelations of Allah rejected and derided,

And incline not toward those who do wrong lest the Fire touch you, and ye have no protecting friends against Allah, and afterward ye would not be helped. (113) HUD

O ye who believe! if ye obey those who disbelieve, they will make you turn back on your heels, and ye turn back as losers. (149) But Allah is your Protector, and He is the Best of Helpers. (150) Ali imran

And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper. (120) Al baqra

“Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.” [60:8]


As for them all going to hell. People who have never heard of Islam will be tested on the judgement day. Allah will tell each to go to hell,if they do obey Allah,Allah will let them enter Jennah and when they went to hell the fire would be cool. If they don't obey, they are those who would trow Allah's message behind their backs.

Allah knows what each womb carries.

Salam

[abu_musab461]

Ibn Taymiyyah was very strict in his stance that the one who doubts if a xtian or jew is a kafir (disbeliver) or not- he his self becomes kafir.

[Alphadude]

what if god forgives the non believers and not us do u know that or forgives all of us afcourse not

[Rasema]

what if god forgives the non believers and not us do u know that or forgives all of us afcourse not

Intention brother.

It's all about "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH"

Surah Asr makes it clear.

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

By the declining day, (1) Lo! man is a state of loss, (2) Save those who believe and do good works, and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to endurance. (3)

Learn about Allah's beatiful names.

[convert]

Yes, christians are kafirs. Surat al-Bayyinah is clear in this.

[Alphadude]

Yes, christians are kafirs. Surat al-Bayyinah is clear in this.

ok i get it but in quran it didnt say to talk bad about them did it?

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

ok i get it but in quran it didnt say to talk bad about them did it?

invite (mankind, O Muhammad SAW) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islam) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Quran) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better.

Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.


( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #125)

[Rasema]

ok i get it but in quran it didnt say to talk bad about them did it?

All we said was the truth. So that they and us know the truth.
Please read the links I gave you.

If you're satisfied with their kufr then you most likely would have no problem doing the same.

With love In the name of Allah.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

ok i get it but in quran it didnt say to talk bad about them did it?

Who's talking bad?

[Alphadude]

Yes, christians are kafirs. Surat al-Bayyinah is clear in this.

again why do u have to call them kafir i think it bad but every 1 is deferent so in my view i wouldnt they do things there way and we do our way every 1 knows what good and whats bad and and what u call kafirs they have been good to me then a muslim.

Who's talking bad?

read the posts kafirs kafirs its the same way as saying bad words.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Not it's not. That's an existing word and a fact. It's not an insult. It refers to those who reject the message of Islam on purpose, after it has come to them. Please don't make stuff up...thanks.

[Alphadude]

Not it's not. That's an existing word and a fact. It's not an insult. It refers to those who reject the message of Islam on purpose, after it has come to them. Please don't make stuff up...thanks.

im not making stuff up dont get me wrong but its not good maybe u think it does not but it does. thats the how i think

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

That's the thing...it's not how "we" think, but how Allah(swt) legislated this deen.

It's like me calling someone a munafiq, which means hypocrite in the deen.

Maybe if you try and learn more about Islam, InshaAllah things would make sense to you.

[glo]

Personally I have no problem with being called kafir. If it means unbeliever, then that's what I am in the eyes of my fellow Muslims.
Equally, from a Christian perspective, I would consider Muslims to be non-believers ...

Now, we believe in the same God, and both Christians and Muslims believe that the final judgment will be God's. That sounds fair enough to me.

But I take khalid's point.
There is a problem with the term kafir/unbeliever when it is used in anger and as an insult!
I don't think there is any justification for that.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

:sl:

I can understand that, but he didn't say what your saying now Glo. He mentioned the world kafir in general. Maybe he needs to be more clear...I personally don't find it insulting against someone who defames Islam as he/she pleases. No one said it in an insulting way, I'm sorry to say. We're talking about what is mentioned in the Qur'aan. If people can't comprehend that, then it's not my problem and don't see why I should be held accountable for my words. Perhaps people need to make that clarity in their minds themselves.

:w:

[Rasema]

Personally I have no problem with being called kafir. If it means unbeliever, then that's what I am in the eyes of my fellow Muslims.
Equally, from a Christian perspective, I would consider Muslims to be non-believers ...

Now, we believe in the same God, and both Christians and Muslims believe that the final judgment will be God's. That sounds fair enough to me.

But I take khalid's point.
There is a problem with the term kafir/unbeliever when it is used in anger and as an insult!
I don't think there is any justification for that.

We do believe in the same God but our belief about God is different. We believe that Christians make up lies about God.

Kafir simply means a non-Muslim there are different type of kafirs.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Yes, that too sister.

:sl:

[Rasema]

[QUOTE=khalid84;1205371]again why do u have to call them kafir i think it bad but every 1 is deferent so in my view i wouldnt they do things there way and we do our way every 1 knows what good and whats bad and and what u call kafirs they have been good to me then a muslim.

In this case you don't have an option of a different view. In Islam we don't take our own interpretations on things but interpretations of scholars. Scholars use methods such as hadeeths before comming to a conclusion.

Again, If you're satisfied with kufr(fordidden things) you wouln't have trouble doing the same thing.

Brother, just because your personal experience is the way it is doesn't mean that it is a fact. For what reason are they kind to you?
Probably, so it reflects good on Christianity.

Again, does that make us unfriendly because Christians are affectionate with you?

No, I sit on this chair thirsty and hungry to try and make you realise that Christians and Muslims do not love eachother.

[glo]

No, I sit on this chair thirsty and hungry to try and make you realise that Christians and Muslims do not love eachother.

What do you mean?
Should Christians and Muslims not strive to live together in peace and harmony? :?

Are we not called to be kind to our brothers and sisters in humanity - even the ones who don't share our faith?

I have great love and respect for my Muslim friends and neighbours!

[Rasema]

What do you mean?
Should Christians and Muslims not strive to live together in peace and harmony? :?
Peace and love are two different things.

Are we not called to be kind to our brothers and sisters in humanity - even the ones who don't share our faith?

Who mentioned anything in NOT being polite?
I have great love and respect for my Muslim friends and neighbours!

IF SO WHY DON'T YOU BECOME ONE?

From my personal experience If I love and have deep respect for someone I would want to be like them.

[glo]

:)

But I have love and respect for my Christian brothers and sisters too ... and I happen to share their beliefs.

I see much in people from other faiths and none which I like, respect or even admire - but my religion is dictated by what I believe about God, not what I think about other people ...

[Rasema]

:)

But I have love and respect for my Christian brothers and sisters too ... and I happen to share their beliefs.

I see much in people from other faiths and none which I like, respect or even admire - but my religion is dictated by what I believe about God, not what I think about other people ...

The subject is not what we Muslims "think" about other people. Allah knows what is in a persons heart better than we ourselves do and we never know when will Allah,spw, change someones heart.

The subject is about hating the forbidden,that which God dislikes and not about hating other people.
If God hates a particular things(a sin), for a very good reason of course,then we must do our best not to fall for it. So if the brother is satisfied with you're kufr than he would have no problem doing the same thing.

I don't like to base statements on feelings but on facts.

Peace

[glo]

The subject is not what we Muslims "think" about other people. Allah knows what is in a persons heart better than we ourselves do and we never know when will Allah,spw, change someones heart.

I don't like to base statements on feelings but on facts.

Peace

My point entirely.

You suggested I should convert to Islam, because I love and respect my Muslim friends and neighbours.

I am saying that I am following God, not other people.
Choosing my faith is not based on how I feel about others, but on how I believe God desires me to love, worship and serve him.

Your beliefs on how God wants you to love, worship and serve him may differ from mine to a greater or lesser degree, but our intention and desire to do so are supposedly the same.

To you your religion, sister, and to me mine. :)

But let's not forget that in the process of following our faiths we have much in common and can do much to make this world a better place.

Charity and care for those in need is one thing.
Respect for God's creation and for our brother and sisters in humanity is another
Good deeds and kind words go a long way.

Salaam :)

[Rasema]

You suggested I should convert to Islam, because I love and respect my Muslim friends and neighbours.

There is a reason why your not a Muslim. The reason your not a Muslim is because you believ that that is what takes you to hell. You dislike that reason.

I am saying that I am following God, not other people.
Choosing my faith is not based on how I feel about others, but on how I believe God desires me to love, worship and serve him.

Same here, so the way I worship you don't want too. In Islam to prove you love and respect my deeds is not by tounge.

Your beliefs on how God wants you to love, worship and serve him may differ from mine to a greater or lesser degree, but our intention and desire to do so are supposedly the same.

To you your religion, sister, and to me mine. :)

Exacly what Islam teaches and what my point is. We're different. I believe that God hates the way you worship you believe that God hates the way I worship.

But let's not forget that in the process of following our faiths we have much in common and can do much to make this world a better place.

Going of subject.I believe that the way the world can be a good place is by truth. Everything God forbate is bad for us and the Earth. Falsehood is what causes mischief on the Earth.

Charity and care for those in need is one thing.
Respect for God's creation and for our brother and sisters in humanity is another
Good deeds and kind words go a long way.

All religions teach us to be good but Islam obligates me to do what you listed.

Salaam :)[/QUOTE]

[glo]

I believe that God hates the way you worship you believe that God hates the way I worship.

You are wrong.
I don't believe that God hates the way you worship. He alone will be the judge of it, but I imagine that he knows your desire to follow and serve him and that he rejoices at it! :statisfie

I do, however, believe that you miss and reject the beauty of God's grace and love, and the salvation which he offers to all of us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - of only we are willing to accept it. (But that's something which we cannot elaborate on here. It would belong into the Comparative Religions section, which will be closed shortly for the duration of Ramadan)

Charity and care for those in need is one thing.
Respect for God's creation and for our brother and sisters in humanity is another
Good deeds and kind words go a long way.

All religions teach us to be good but Islam obligates me to do what you listed.

Salaam :)

Then let's start to make this world a more peaceful and loving place here and now - and just in time for the holy month of Ramadan! :)

Salaam to you too, sister

[mariam521]

sorry for bringing up this topic guys , I didn't mean to cause arguments =(
I am convinced with ur comments thanks guys

but I have a question
how about the christens who believe that Jesus is a messenger of Allah but don't believe in our prophet Mohammad SAAW

would that be Shirk or Kufer
what is the difference between them?
and would someone who committed shirk be punished then go to heaven ?(if there is difference between the 2 words )

[Danah]

:sl:
this question always comes to my mind

does Islam consider christens kafroon or non believers because they don't believe in the prophet Mohammad (SAAW) and the quran?

and do they all go to hell even the ones who spent their lives worshiping God ?

please I need an asnwer to my question

Regards

basically, the word kaffir is for any non-muslim and there are different type of kafroon since there are different kind of non-muslims

there is:
Ahal al Kitab (people of book) like christians and jews who do believe in the existence of God. Also, there are atheists and agnostics who reject the existence of God

this Ayah in surah al bayyina (chapter 98) made it very clear

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them, (1) A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages (2) Containing correct scriptures. (3) Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them. (4) And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion. (5) Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. (6) (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings. (7) Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord. (8)


لَمۡ يَكُنِ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ مُنفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأۡتِيَہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (١) رَسُولٌ۬ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ يَتۡلُواْ صُحُفً۬ا مُّطَهَّرَةً۬ (٢) فِيہَا كُتُبٌ۬ قَيِّمَةٌ۬ (٣) وَمَا تَفَرَّقَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ إِلَّا مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَتۡہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (٤) وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ مُخۡلِصِينَ لَهُ ٱلدِّينَ حُنَفَآءَ وَيُقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤۡتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ*ۚ وَذَٲلِكَ دِينُ ٱلۡقَيِّمَةِ (٥) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ*ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ شَرُّ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٦) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ خَيۡرُ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٧) جَزَآؤُهُمۡ عِندَ رَبِّہِمۡ جَنَّـٰتُ عَدۡنٍ۬ تَجۡرِى مِن تَحۡتِہَا ٱلۡأَنۡہَـٰرُ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ أَبَدً۬ا*ۖ رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡہُمۡ وَرَضُواْ عَنۡهُ*ۚ ذَٲلِكَ لِمَنۡ خَشِىَ رَبَّهُ ۥ (٨)

[mariam521]

basically, the word kaffir is for any non-muslim and there are different type of kafroon since there are different kind of non-muslims

there is:
Ahal al Kitab (people of book) like christians and jews who do believe in the existence of God. Also, there are atheists and agnostics who reject the existence of God

this Ayah in surah al bayyina (chapter 98) made it very clear

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them, (1) A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages (2) Containing correct scriptures. (3) Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them. (4) And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion. (5) Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. (6) (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings. (7) Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord. (8)


لَمۡ يَكُنِ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ مُنفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأۡتِيَہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (١) رَسُولٌ۬ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ يَتۡلُواْ صُحُفً۬ا مُّطَهَّرَةً۬ (٢) فِيہَا كُتُبٌ۬ قَيِّمَةٌ۬ (٣) وَمَا تَفَرَّقَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ إِلَّا مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَتۡہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (٤) وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ مُخۡلِصِينَ لَهُ ٱلدِّينَ حُنَفَآءَ وَيُقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤۡتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ*ۚ وَذَٲلِكَ دِينُ ٱلۡقَيِّمَةِ (٥) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ*ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ شَرُّ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٦) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ خَيۡرُ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٧) جَزَآؤُهُمۡ عِندَ رَبِّہِمۡ جَنَّـٰتُ عَدۡنٍ۬ تَجۡرِى مِن تَحۡتِہَا ٱلۡأَنۡہَـٰرُ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ أَبَدً۬ا*ۖ رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡہُمۡ وَرَضُواْ عَنۡهُ*ۚ ذَٲلِكَ لِمَنۡ خَشِىَ رَبَّهُ ۥ (٨)

so would the punishment be the same regardless of their faith ?

I mean Ahal al Kitab and the atheists for example?

[Danah]

so would the punishment be the same regardless of their faith ?

I mean Ahal al Kitab and the atheists for example?

I am not sure of the answer, maybe some more knowledgeable one will answer inshaAllah. I want to know whether its equal or not as well

[Rasema]

I do, however, believe that you miss and reject the beauty of God's grace and love, and the salvation which he offers to all of us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - of only we are willing to accept it. (But that's something which we cannot elaborate on here. It would belong into the Comparative Religions section, which will be closed shortly for the duration of Ramadan)



I know that in Christianity love of Jesus is something big. I find more love by the creator of the heavens and the earth and all in between of them.

I don't believe that God is all mercy I believe that God is also punishent,otherwise hell would not exist.

Contrary to Christianity we don't believe that we're saved just because we're Muslims. We just try to act in the way that pleases God while trying and avoiding everything that displeases him.

I said this so that you try and understand the purpose of the topic which is that we hate all form of kufr(sin).But you ended up telling me about Jesus's love and how he sacrificed himself????

[glo]

I said this so that you try and understand the purpose of the topic which is that we hate all form of kufr(sin).But you ended up telling me about Jesus's love and how he sacrificed himself????

Thank you for clarifying that.
I guess I know where I stand now.

Salaam, and Ramadan Mubarak to you. :)

[- IqRa -]

im not making stuff up dont get me wrong but its not good maybe u think it does not but it does. thats the how i think

It doesn't matter how we think. The only thing that matters in what the Qur'aan says.

[Rasema]

so would the punishment be the same regardless of their faith ?

I mean Ahal al Kitab and the atheists for example?

Allah,spw, created us not just to believe but also to act upon our believe.

All I know is that who ever does not accept Muhammad,saws, as a messanger will go to jehannam.

If you accept him as a messanger of Allah you must also be obedient. If you just aknowledge that he's a messanger I don't think is enough. I could be wrong.

Remember to what happened to those on Hendek when they disobeyed the messanger.

The shaytan believes.

Allah is the most fair.

All I know is that they don't give Allah,spw, his rights nor to his messanger.

Those who have never heard about Islam. Allah will test them on the judgement day. He will tell each to go to jehannam if one obeys Allah will make the fire cool and allow them jennah. If they don't they would be those who would throw Allah's book behind their backs on the dunya.

[Cabdullahi]

if a christian believes in allah and that jesus is he's messenger than this would not make them a mushrik but however not believing in prophet muhammed could make them a kafir

but then again why the disbelief n mohammed after he talked well about jesus and told his arab nation that mary is the best woman ever to grace earth

[Rasema]

if a christian believes in allah and that jesus is he's messenger than this would not make them a mushrik but however not believing in prophet muhammed could make them a kafir

but then again why the disbelief n mohammed after he talked well about jesus and told his arab nation that mary is the best woman ever to grace earth

Brother, correct me if I am wrong.

If a person rejects one verse of the Qur'an is a kafir,correct.

I have read it by a scholar that it falls under kufr.

[Alphadude]

It doesn't matter how we think. The only thing that matters in what the Qur'aan says.

afcourse it matters brother if we cant think then how can we tell between bad and good and if we cant think then there is no thinking just blank but what if i or u were born in a cristian family? wouldnt we follow our family and we would be talking about islam the same way or any other religion.
and allah gave us lots of knowledge some of them is unlocked and some is not. in the brain there is lots of knowledge stored more then u can imagine.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I think what is meant is, we don't follow our own desires and think however we want. There is wisdom and truth behind everything Allah(swt) says. Our thoughts and views are based on the Qur'aan and Sunnah, not something randy...when it comes to spiritual/religious matters :)

[- IqRa -]

Yea.

[Rasema]

afcourse it matters brother if we cant think then how can we tell between bad and good and if we cant think then there is no thinking just blank but what if i or u were born in a cristian family? wouldnt we follow our family and we would be talking about islam the same way or any other religion.
and allah gave us lots of knowledge some of them is unlocked and some is not. in the brain there is lots of knowledge stored more then u can imagine.

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuhu

That is not what the sister ment brother,no...

Islam ordains us to think,reason...

Please read this artice:

http://peacepropagation.com/2009/06/...out-knowledge/

"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

[Alphadude]

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuhu

That is not what the sister ment brother,no...

Islam ordains us to think,reason...

Please read this artice:

http://peacepropagation.com/2009/06/...out-knowledge/

"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."

thanks and i know now its in the quran sorry my bad

[Rasema]

thanks and i know now its in the quran sorry my bad

No problem my belowed brother.
I hope that you forgive me if I offended you in anyway or If I was too harsh by any means.

May Allah,spw, inbreath us with patience,kindness and endurance.

I hope that in this Ramadhan we do our best to please our creator.

I wanted to share a nice video with you. I guarantee that you'll like it. It's about Ramadhan.

http://www.*******.com/watch?v=NlgSF1Ehqq8

For some reson the link doesn't work.

Go to you tube and write In The Shade Of Ramadan 28. It's the first video on the display.

[Alphadude]

No problem my belowed brother.
I hope that you forgive me if I offended you in anyway or If I was too harsh by any means.

May Allah,spw, inbreath us with patience,kindness and endurance.

I hope that in this Ramadhan we do our best to please our creator.

I wanted to share a nice video with you. I guarantee that you'll like it. It's about Ramadhan.

http://www.*******.com/watch?v=NlgSF1Ehqq8

For some reson the link doesn't work.

Go to you tube and write In The Shade Of Ramadan 28. It's the first video on the display.

belowed or beloved? lol
and no u were never harsh to me.
and thanks for the nice video watching it right know.

[Argamemnon]

Kafir = non-believer, is that right?

"Kafir" means one who conceals or rejects the truth (and is derived from the word "kufr")

[Argamemnon]

There are three types of Kuffar: 1- Dhimmis (people of the book) who live in an islamic state with restricted rights. 2 - Harbis, these are the enemies of islam. and they have no rights! 3 - Mustamins, people who get temporally a contract being like Dhimmis

There are also "people of the book" who do NOT live in an Islamic state. Why didn't you mention them as being kafir? Why only mention those who live in an Islamic state?

[Argamemnon]

IF SO WHY DON'T YOU BECOME ONE?

From my personal experience If I love and have deep respect for someone I would want to be like them.

Your attitude is one which leads to wars and bloodshed. When will Muslims learn that there is no compulsion in Islam and that Muslims can have good relations with disbelievers, as long as they don't fight us?

[Argamemnon]

If you accept him as a messanger of Allah you must also be obedient. If you just aknowledge that he's a messanger I don't think is enough. I could be wrong.

If you believe in Allah and accept Muhammad as a messenger you are a Muslim (even if you never pray or fast etc.) There are no ifs or buts.

Brother, correct me if I am wrong.

If a person rejects one verse of the Qur'an is a kafir,correct.

I have read it by a scholar that it falls under kufr.

There are many Muslims today who "prefer" hadiths over the Quran, even if those hadiths clearly contradict the Quran. I guess that makes them kafirs as well? In the end it's not up to us to label people kafir. There are sunnis who call shias kafir, for example. It's very wrong when all of us start calling each other kafir.

[Rasema]

Your attitude is one which leads to wars and bloodshed. When will Muslims learn that there is no compulsion in Islam and that Muslims can have good relations with disbelievers, as long as they don't fight us?

But ,you can't take them as friends, you better agree to this. :shade:

I haven't called no Muslim a kafir.

In order to be a complete Muslim you must accept all hadeeths and all verses of the Qur'an. If not, than your shahadat is not complete. Every snunni scholar will agree to this.

I don't see what does,what I said, lead to compultion in religion.

[Rasema]

[QUOTE=Argamemnon;1207169]If you believe in Allah and accept Muhammad as a messenger you are a Muslim (even if you never pray or fast etc.) There are no ifs or buts.


Once you accept Muhammad,saws,as a messanger you accept everything he says. That is shahadat. So, there are many sects that accept Muhammad as a messanger but reject many verses of the Qur'an and reject many things he had said.

I don't mean that they have to pray and fast to be Muslims but they have to accept everything from the Qur'an and the hadeeths,that is shahadat.

[Rasema]

There are many Muslims today who "prefer" hadiths over the Quran, even if those hadiths clearly contradict the Quran. I guess that makes them kafirs as well? In the end it's not up to us to label people kafir. There are sunnis who call shias kafir, for example. It's very wrong when all of us start calling each other kafir.[/QUOTE]

Hadeeths do not contradict the Qur'an. Aldough I can't prove my claim, I know that it takes a scholar to make claims such as your's. It could be that you're one of those who interpreat things themselves. :D
Give me one fatwa where a scholar says what you did.If you can't than,brother,for your own good, don't speek of what you know not.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


I request any moderator to close this thread & others ( not related to Ramadan ) temporarily ; so that Muslims can avoid the arguments and can concentrate more on prayers and threads related to blessed Ramadan only.

[Argamemnon]

But ,you can't take them as friends, you better agree to this. :shade:

Yes, you cannot accept them as true friends, this is clearly mentioned in the Quran. However, as long as they don't attack you (and have no intention to), you too have to treat them well. Creating a hostile and intolerant environment would not benefit anyone.

In order to be a complete Muslim you must accept all hadeeths and all verses of the Qur'an. If not, than your shahadat is not complete. Every snunni scholar will agree to this.

Not all hadiths, I think you meant the sahih ones.

[Rasema]

True, but as long as they don't attack you, you will have to treat them well.



Not all hadiths, I think you meant the sahih ones.

Of course brother,we all must struggle to set a good example of a Muslim.

Thanks for the information. I thaught all hadeeths.

We love and hate in the name of Allah,spw. If they "love" us it's probably because they know that we occupy a special place with our creator.

Selam

[Argamemnon]

Hadeeths do not contradict the Qur'an. Aldough I can't prove my claim, I know that it takes a scholar to make claims such as your's. It could be that you're one of those who interpreat things themselves. :D
Give me one fatwa where a scholar says what you did.If you can't than,brother,for your own good, don't speek of what you know not.

No, I don't claim anything. I have books of reputable Islamic scholars. A very famous and knowledgeable Turkish Islamic scholar who has dedicated his life to Islam says that even Bukhari's works can't be accepted as "infallible", and that all hadiths must be filtered by carefully comparing them to the Quran. There are actually many other scholars throughout the world who hold the same view.

Look at this "project" in Turkey for example; http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_ar...16/_p-1/i.html

[Rasema]

No, I don't claim anything. I have books of reputable Islamic scholars. A very famous and knowledgeable Turkish Islamic scholar who has dedicated his life to Islam says that even Bukhari's works can't be accepted as "infallible", and that all hadiths must be filtered by carefully comparing them to the Quran. There are actually many other scholars throughout the world who hold the same view.

Look at this "project" in Turkey for example; http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_ar...16/_p-1/i.html

Well, I follow my own scholars(Hanafi) you follow whom ever you choose,lets end it at that.

Peace

[Grace Seeker]

excellent post.. there are different levels of kufr, just like there are different forms of shirk..
many Muslims commit at times what we call shirk asghar .. when they say for instance 'sydna mursai abu il3abas' a founder of some town in Alexandria, or ya Ali or ya Hussain, to call upon any other than Allah.. also there are certain bida3 that go into the category of shirk.. talisamans and what nots...

same for kuffr, I imagine the ultimate kufr is atheism but certainly you can have that in Judaism, christianity, hinduism, etc


and Allah swt knows best

:w:

Given Islamic beliefs, I certainly understand why you would label those in other religions kuffr. But as you said that there are many levels of shirk, some committed by Muslims, would there be a case when a person who is Muslim by birth and culture, but not personal practice might also be considered kuffr? Or what do you call a person who accepts self-identifies with the label Muslim because they have never known anything else, but who in daily life lives just as do those who have no religion whatsoever? For example, he's make a great pretence at being at the big family feast at the end of Ramadan, but himself ate and drank (included all non-halal food and spirits) throughout the month, never fasting nor praying nor even giving thought to anything than the annual family gathering at the end of the month? Is there a name for this sort of "Muslim"?

Would he be viewed any more positively than a devout and practicing Christian or Jew? Why or why not?

[AntiKarateKid]

Given Islamic beliefs, I certainly understand why you would label those in other religions kuffr. But as you said that there are many levels of shirk, some committed by Muslims, would there be a case when a person who is Muslim by birth and culture, but not personal practice might also be considered kuffr? Or what do you call a person who accepts self-identifies with the label Muslim because they have never known anything else, but who in daily life lives just as do those who have no religion whatsoever? For example, he's make a great pretence at being at the big family feast at the end of Ramadan, but himself ate and drank (included all non-halal food and spirits) throughout the month, never fasting nor praying nor even giving thought to anything than the annual family gathering at the end of the month? Is there a name for this sort of "Muslim"?

That person is a hypocrite. Islam, surrender to God, requires action on the part of the individual. You cannot expect to fool Allah with pretenses.

Would he be viewed any more positively than a devout and practicing Christian or Jew? Why or why not?

That is up to Allah who knows every detail of their lives. We cannot give an answer for sure because only He deals out perfect justice.

[Grace Seeker]

Hypocrite. Yeah, that's probably an accurate word. They exist in all religions don't they? Is there a special name for this type of hypocrite in Islam, or is that label itself sufficient?

Of course, since he really never was asked to say the Shahadd, and was just assumed to be Muslim because he was raised that way, maybe he isn't a hypocrit, but just your typical secular atheist??

That is up to Allah who knows every detail of their lives. We cannot give an answer for sure because only He deals out perfect justice.

Yes, of course the ultimate salvation of every person is up to Allah. Only Allah can answer for any of us. We can't even answer that question for ourselves, we only have hope in what Allah himself decides. But I've noticed we still have opinions on the subject. So, do you have an opinion in this case? In your personal eyes, would he be viewed any more positively than a devout and practicing Christian or Jew? Why or why not?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... Is there a name for this sort of "Muslim"?

If out of ignorance , they are doing this , other Muslims must teach them about the basics/ principles of Islam . If out of arrogance , they reject / refuse to offer salat , fasting etc , they are called as Murtad /apostate- no more a Muslim .

If they don't offer sincere repentance and utter the Shahada , scholars differ about the punishment .

[AntiKarateKid]

Hypocrite. Yeah, that's probably an accurate word. They exist in all religions don't they? Is there a special name for this type of hypocrite in Islam, or is that label itself sufficient?

Not sure. Someone more knowledgeable than me can answer that.

Of course, since he really never was asked to say the Shahadd, and was just assumed to be Muslim because he was raised that way, maybe he isn't a hypocrit, but just your typical secular atheist??

It depends. I don't have any information about this theoretical person other than a few sentences by you.

Yes, of course the ultimate salvation of every person is up to Allah. Only Allah can answer for any of us. We can't even answer that question for ourselves, we only have hope in what Allah himself decides. But I've noticed we still have opinions on the subject. So, do you have an opinion in this case? In your personal eyes, would he be viewed any more positively than a devout and practicing Christian or Jew? Why or why not?

There is a difference between the theoretical and actual. Theoretically, person A is better than person B. But in reality, there are many variables that we don't know or haven't considered. Our theoretical relationship still holds true, abeit with interference from many other variables that make it impossible for you, as a human, to give judgment.

There's nothing wrong with having hope in what Allah decides and keeping his warning against becoming certain types of people in mind.

As for your last question, I don't know. I'll leave the answer to someone who has more knowlege. But keep in mind, your question is vague. For example, has the devout Jew or Christian heard of Islam and understood it but refused to follow it? Or did he never hear about it? See? A simple fact that you didn't mention changes the whole dynamic.

[touba]

again why do u have to call them kafir i think it bad but every 1 is deferent so in my view i wouldnt they do things there way and we do our way every 1 knows what good and whats bad and and what u call kafirs they have been good to me then a muslim.


read the posts kafirs kafirs its the same way as saying bad words.

I dont understand who you are you put your pseudo as a muslim and at same time you are a christianty protector , Yes Christians and jewish and atheist are kafirs unbelievers because Allah Subhanahou wa taala said in the koran .

[Grace Seeker]

But keep in mind, your question is vague. For example, has the devout Jew or Christian heard of Islam and understood it but refused to follow it? Or did he never hear about it? See? A simple fact that you didn't mention changes the whole dynamic.

Well, this truly is theoretical. I have no particular living, breathing individual in mind. So, we can design him as you or I choose for the purpose of better understanding what it means to follow Islam. Your answers have been broad enough to consider some of those different items that I either hadn't considered or hadn't realized were important to consider and thus has helped in this regard. I thank you.

[ummsara1108]

Brasco

thanks for explaining,

Glo
read brasco's reply he explained it

thank you guys for passing by

I am still waiting for the answer =(

The answer to your questions is simply this: ONLY GOD/ALLAH IS THE JUDGE, and i'd have to say if anyone says yes someone will goto hell, they are just plain ignorant.

so why worry about if someone else will make it to heaven, we should focus on ourselves making it to heaven. Even though we may feel the need to intervine and direct them in the right direction, NO ONE IS GURANTEED!

I'm not trying to be disrespectful!!!!!!

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Firstly, there's no need to yell :)

Secondly, are you Muslim? Yes/No?

[malayloveislam]

Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuhu...

Indeed Allah judges who is to go to paradise or hell... Why need to argue or doubt, it's clear Kafir means disbeliever, so non-Muslim are disbelievers... Infidelus (Lat.). Do we need long explanation for that? Christians and Jews are infidelus. They reject the prophets, Jews reject Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) and Christians reject Muhammad (pbuh) and Christians have the dogma of Trinity which isn't the teaching of Islam.

For the followers of prophet Jesus (pbuh) during his prophethood task or those who do not believe in the Divinity of Jesus (pbuh) but at that time the revelation hasn't reached prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They are considered as Muslims, not Christians. The children of Israel before the prophethood of prophet Jesus (pbuh), are Muslims. Remember that Islam not only emerge when prophet Muhammad (pbuh) appointed with prophethood by Allah SWT and it's not created by prophet Muhammad (pbuh), but it had began since Adam and Eve was sent to the Earth. Islam is not a philosophy like Buddhism, where Buddhism was said as began when Buddha Gautama achieved enlightment. Islam is longer, as we learn in Qisaasul-Anbiyaa', since Adam (pbuh). If not why should we know about prophet Hud, prophet Noah, prophet Idris, prophet Salleh (pbut), and others? Aren't they all Muslim?

Nowadays, Christians and Jews reject Quran, Sunnah, and prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) beside rejecting the 6 Pillars of Creed. They're disbelievers. Those who reject the 5 Pillars of Islam and do not practice them in their daily life, are also disbelievers. No doubt in Quran please, Muslim brothers and sisters. No reject to Sunnah of Rasulullah (saw) please. Hadiths are our second source of jurispundence, Orientalism had brought doubts to Muslim minds, so anti-Hadith movements arise. They also distort Quranic verses translation and finding faults through Hadiths like Aishah (ra) married Rasulullah (pbuh) when she's six or nine years old, using the Hadith about al-'Azl on rape charges to say Islam disprove human rights and looking down to women because they hate Islam and not Muslim (crazy statement).

We live in happiness but Orientalists and wonder why Western European nations hate Islam so much? Snouck Hurgronje, Ignaz Goldziher, and others. Later many other people too hate Islam because they see others' hate Islam and thanks to those scholars from Western European nations. They tried hard to shut the light of Islam. If Islam is not the true religion why do they have to try hard disproving by slandering prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the net, medias, forums and etc until we have to bear the sufferings of listening our prophets and God messengers (including Muhammad (pbuh)) and their family being insulted and slandered. I never seen they do the same to Sikhism, Buddhism, or Hinduism although those people who tried to blacken Islam claiming themselves as Atheist, Agnostic, ex-Muslim, and etc. What's that means?

Ramadhan Kareem, and take time in Ramadhan reading Quran, Qiyamu Ramadhaan, reading valid Hadiths beside analyzing the status of the Hadiths and explanation beside other beneficial matters!!!

Please close the thread and Salaam...

[Argamemnon]

Well, I follow my own scholars(Hanafi) you follow whom ever you choose,lets end it at that.

Peace

:sl:

I don't "follow" a particular scholar or something. I'm just an honest truth seeker, I'm only interested in the truth. If I have certain doubts about something, I leave it up to Allah....

Recently, I've read interesting articles about hell and guess what? According to some Islamic scholars even atheists/kafirs will not remain there in eternity. They say that hell together with the "inhabitants" (disbelievers) will disappear at some point. So, after their punishment the disbelievers will cease to exist. I don't know if this is true, but my point is that there are differing views among scholars and this is perfectly normal. Not something to be afraid of.

Peace

[Argamemnon]

Of course, since he really never was asked to say the Shahadd, and was just assumed to be Muslim because he was raised that way, maybe he isn't a hypocrit, but just your typical secular atheist??

It all boils down to belief, does that person believe in God and accept Muhammad (pbuh) as a messenger? If so, then he is a Muslim for sure.

[Rasema]

:sl:

I don't "follow" a particular scholar or something. I'm just an honest truth seeker, I'm only interested in the truth. If I have certain doubts about something, I leave it up to Allah....

Recently, I've read interesting articles about hell and guess what? According to some Islamic scholars even atheists/kafirs will not remain there in eternity. They say that hell together with the "inhabitants" (disbelievers) will disappear at some point. So, after their punishment the disbelievers will cease to exist. I don't know if this is true, but my point is that there are differing views among scholars and this is perfectly normal. Not something to be afraid of.

Peace

Sure there are differing views among scholars,enormous ones. This is why I follow a school of thaugh. I don't rely on such articles,because hell is something known only by Allah,spw, and his messangers(his messangers know it to a certain extent).

There are verses in the Qur'an that say "And they will dwell in there for ever". I've not read the tafsir, so, I wont guess to who did/is Allah refearing to. But if not Athiest,Christians,and the hypocrites than I don't know who.

[Grace Seeker]

It all boils down to belief, does that person believe in God and accept Muhammad (pbuh) as a messenger? If so, then he is a Muslim for sure.

I have a line that I believe is quite true with regard to belief: "What we believe effects our behavior." And I think that there is, therefore, also a corrollary to that maxim: "You can tell what one really believes more by what he/she does, than by what he/she says."

With that as background, would one who says that they believed in God and accepted Muhammad (pbuh) as messenger, but never even attempted to live a life of submission be, to use your phrase, "a Muslim for sure"?

[Rasema]

I have a line that I believe is quite true with regard to belief: "What we believe effects our behavior." And I think that there is, therefore, also a corrollary to that maxim: "You can tell what one really believes more by what he/she does, than by what he/she says."

With that as background, would one who says that they believed in God and accepted Muhammad (pbuh) as messenger, but never even attempted to live a life of submission be, to use your phrase, "a Muslim for sure"?

Of course!!!!!! he would be a Muslim, he is not a Christian or an Athiest, however that doesn't mean that he'll automaticly go to paradise.Unlike in Christianity, you believe that just because one accepts Jesus(pbuh)as a saviour he/she is saved.

We can't see through his heart. And we don't know when is Allah,exalthed He be, going to change someones heart wether he is a Christian or whatever.

[AhmadibnNasroon]

Assalamu 3laykum,

6. Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures. - Surah Bayyinah

The difference between the mushrikeen and the kuffaar, and to which category do the Jews and Christians belong?
What is the difference between mushrikeen and kuffaar? Are the Jews and Christians mushrikeen or kuffaar?.


Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The kaafir is the one who denies and conceals the truth. The basic meaning of the word kufr in Arabic is concealment. Shirk means devoting worship to anyone or anything other than Allaah.

Kufr may take the form of denying and rejecting, but the mushrik may also believe in Allaah. This is the difference between the mushrik and the kaafir.

Each word may also carry the meaning of the other, so the word kufr may be used in the sense of shirk, and the word shirk may be used in the sense of kufr.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Sharh Saheeh Muslim. 2/71

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr is denial and concealment of the truth, such as one who denies that prayer is obligatory, or that zakaah is obligatory, or that fasting Ramadaan is obligatory, or that doing Hajj when one is able to is obligatory, or that honouring one's parents is obligatory, and so on, or one who denies that zina is haraam, or that drinking intoxicants is haraam, or that disobeying one’s parents is haraam, and so on.

Shirk is devoting acts of worship to something or someone other than Allaah, such as one who seeks the help of the dead, those who are absent, the jinn, idols, the stars, and so on, or who offers sacrifices to them, or makes vows to them. A kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allaah, any other ilaah (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, Al‑Kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:117]

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode”

[al-Maa'idah 5:72]

And Allaah says in Soorat Faatir (interpretation of the meaning):

“Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

14. If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)”
[Faatir 35:13-14]

Their calling on anything other than Allaah is called shirk in this soorah, but in Soorat al-Mu’minoon it is called kufr.

Allaah says in Soorat al-Tawbah (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent — Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kaafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it).

33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it)”

[al-Tawbah 9:32-33]

Here Allaah calls the kuffaar kuffaar, and He calls them mushrikeen. This indicates that a kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir. There are many similar verses and ahaadeeth.

Another example is the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his giving up prayer.” Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The covenant that differentiates us from them is prayer; whoever gives it up is a kaafir.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nasaa’i and Ibn Maajah with a saheeh isnaad from Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him). And Allaah is the Source of strength. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 9/174, 175.

The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

It is also shirk to worship only something other than Allaah. This is called shirk, and it is called kufr. Whoever turns away from Allaah altogether and devotes his worship to something other than Allaah, such as trees, rocks, idols, the jinn or some of the dead such as those whom they call awliya’ (“saints”), and worship them, pray to them or fast for them, and forget Allaah altogether, this is the worst form of kufr and shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly those who deny the existence of Allaah and say that there is no god, that life is only material, such as the communists and atheists, are the most disbelieving and misguided of people, and the worst in terms of shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. The point is that people who hold these and similar beliefs are all regarded as mushrikeen and kaafirs who disbelieve in Allaah. Some people, out of ignorance, mistakenly regard calling upon the dead and seeking their help as waseelah and think that it is permissible. This is a serious error, because this action is one of the worst forms of shirk and associating others with Allaah. Some ignorant people and mushrikeen call it waseelah, but it is the religion of the mushrikeen whom Allaah criticized and condemned. He sent the Messenger and revealed His Books to denounce it and warn against it. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/32, 33

Secondly:

The Jews and Christians are both kaafirs and mushrikeen. They are kaafirs because they deny the truth and reject it. And they are mushrikeen because they worship someone other than Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:30, 31]

Here they are described as mushrikeen. In Soorat al-Bayyinah they are described as kaafirs, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al‑Mushrikoon, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence”

[al-Bayyinah 98:1]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, refuting those who say that the word mushrikeen cannot be applied to the People of the Book:

It is most likely that the people of the Book are included among the mushrikeen, men and women alike, when this word is used in general terms. because the kuffaar are undoubtedly mushrikeen. Hence they are forbidden to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe (in Allaah’s Oneness and in His Messenger Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al‑Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah) after this year”

[al-Tawbah 9:28]

If the People of the Book did not come under the general heading of mushrikeen, then this verse would not apply to them, and Allaah would not have referred to the beliefs of the Jews and Christians in Soorat Baraa’ah (al-Tawbah) where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/274

And Allaah knows best.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/67626/jews%20christians

As for disbelieving in the Messenger Muhammad sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam, then this is makes you a kafir by consensus.

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).

As for takfir then the ulemma differentiate between two things.

1) Takfir of the dunya

2) Takfir of the akhira

Although one may say the Jews and Christians are kuffar, this does not mean we can say Fulan ibn Fulan is in the fire. In order to do so, we should have a text to say so. Likewise we cannot say Fulan ibn Fulan is IN the Jannah unless we have a text do so.

Examples:

Jannah: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Sa3d ibn Abi Waqqas, Sa3eed ibn Zayd, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Zubayr ibn al Awwaam, Abdul Rahman ibn Awf, Abu Ubaydah ibn al Jarrah, etc.

Jahannam: Firawn, Iblees, Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab, the wife of Abu Lahab, etc.

The reason we cannot say so and so is in the fire without a text is due to the hadeeth of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam and this is a long discussion. I will post what ibn al Qayyim says about it in his "The Path of the Two Migrations And the Door to the Two States of Bliss".

[AhmadibnNasroon]

Assalamu 3laykum,

Ibn al Qayyim says in his book "The Path of the Two Migrations And The Door to the Two States of Bliss":

The Fourteenth Level: A people having niether obedience nor disobedience, and having niether Unbelief nor true Faith (Emaan), and they are of different types.

So from them are those whom the true call did not reach at all and who did not hear it being related. Also from them is the insane person who could not grasp anything requiring intellect and could not discern. Also from them is the deaf person who never heard anything. And also from them are the children of the mushrikeen: those who died before being able to discern anything.

So the Ummah has differed greatly regarding the like of this level, and they have spoken a great deal about the matter of the children of the mushrikeen.

As for the children of the Muslims, then Imam Ahmad rahimahullah said: 'No one differs concerning them.' (i.e. that they will be in the Paradise).

However ibn Abdul Barr rahimahullah related that a group withheld in regard to them and stated that all children fall under (the ruling of Allaah's) Will and Wish (mashee'ah). As for the children of the Mushrikeen, then the people have eight sayings with regard to them:

Firstly: To withold regarding them and to refrain from asserting that they will be in Paradise or that they will be in the Fire. Rather, knowledge of them is entrusted to Allaah, the Most High, and what is said regarding them is what the Prophet said as occurs in the authentic hadeeth which is agreed upon: "Allah knows best what they would have done (al Bukhari 1384, Muslim 2659 from the path of Abu Hurrayrah, also al Bukhari no. 6597 and Muslim no. 2660 from the path of ibn Abbas.)

Secondly: That they will be in the Fire. This was held by a group of theological rhetoric (al Mutakallimoon) and the people of tafseer.

Thirdly: That they will be in Paradise. This was the saying of a group of the people of tafseer, the people of theological rhetoric, and others.

Fourthly: That they will be in a station between the two stations: between Paradise and the Fire. This was the saying of a group of the people of tafseer.

Fifthly: That they are under the Will and Wish (masheeh'ah) of Allaah, the Most High: if He wishes He will punish them and if He wishes He will forgive them.

Sixthly: That they will be servants for the people of Paradise and slaves for them: just like their servants and slaves in the world.

Seventhly: That they have the same ruling as their fathers in this world and the Hereafter and are not seperated from them in their ruling in the abode.

Eighthly: (Ibn al Qayyim says this is the most correct opinion), That they will be tried on the open plain of Resurrection; and that a Messenger will be sent to them there and to everyone whom the true call did not reach. Then whoever obeys the Messenger will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys him will enter the Fire. With this saying all of the evidences are harmonised.

Ibn al Qayyim says in 'Tareeq'ul Hijratayn' from the authentic hadeeth,

"Four people will be brought on the Day of Resurrection: the child, the mentally retarded person, the one who died in the period between Messengers, and the senile old person. Each one will state his plea. So the Lord, the Blessed and Most High, will say to a part of the Fire: "Come forward." So He will say to them: "I sent Messengers to My servants, from amongst themselves, and I am a Messenger for Myself to you. Enter this!" So those upon whom wretchedness was written will say: 'O My Lord! How can we enter it when we previously fled from it?' He said: And whoever had it written for him that he was to be from the fortunate will proceed (into it) and will rush into it. He said: So He, the Blessed and Most High, will say (i.e. to the first group): "You would have been more severe in denying and disobeying my Messengers.' So He will enter those into Paradise and these into the Fire.

(From the hadeeth of Anas ibn Malik radiallaahu anhu reported by Qaadi Abu Ya'laa and al Bazzaar, and Abu Sa3eed reported by al Baghawee in Hadeeth ibn'ul Ja'd; and Mu3dh reported by a'Tabaraanee. Shaykh Albanee declared that these narrations and others strengthen each other in a'Saheehah no 2468.)

[AhmadibnNasroon]

Shaykh al Islaam ibn Taymiyya said in Majmoo3 al Fataawa 4/ 246-247: "So therefore when Allah's Messenger sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam was asked about those who die young from the children of the Mushriks, he said, "Allah knows what deeds they would have done." meaning, Allah knows those who would have been believers from them and those who would have been unbelievers had they attained adulthood. Then there occurs in the hadeeth whose chain of narraters is passable, from Abu Hurrayrah from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam that he said, "On the day of Resurrection Allah will test them and send a Messenger to them on the plain of the Resurrectino. So whoever obeys him will enter Paradise and whoever disobeys him will enter the fire."

So whatever Allah, the perfect knew about them will be made manifest, and He will recompense them on this basis of what was manifested from the knowledge: which is their emaan or unbelief; not on the basis of (His) knowledge alone.

Allah says:

15. Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). al-Israa: 15

[AhmadibnNasroon]

Assalamu 3laykum,

Shaykh al Islaam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab said in his 'Nullifiers of Islam'

3. Whoever does not hold the polytheists to be disbelievers, or
has doubts about their disbelief or considers their ways and beliefs
to be correct, has committed disbelief.

Shaykh Abdullah ibn Jibreen rahimahullah said concerning this:

This nullifier consists of three parts: Firstly, whosoever does not agree that the atheists are disbelievers, when Allah announces in the Qur'an in many verses that they are indeed kuffar (infidels).

Allah says in the Qur'an (of which meaning translates as), "Verily, those who disbelieve [in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)] from among the people of the Scripture [Jews and Christians] and Al-Mushrikeen, will abide in the Fire of Hell" (98:6). Secondly, whosoever hesitates in the status of the kuffar (infidels) (i.e. he is not sure they are disbelievers or not). Thirdly, whosoever praises the path of the kuffar (infidels) and believes that their religion is correct and that they are on the right path;

this type is even worse than the first two. There are two ints that must be mentioned here:

- When we say the kuffar (infidels) here, we mean those for whom there is no doubt they are disbelievers (i.e. Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.) and those who claim to be Muslims, but who are believed by the majority of the Muslim scholars to be disbelievers (i.e. Qadianies, An'Nosairiah, Al-Baha'aih, Ad'Drowze, Al-Batiniah, etc.). Sheikh AlIslam Ibn Taymiyyah said, "Whosoever hesitates in the disbelief of those groups after having knowledge of what they say and having knowledge of the religion of Islam, then he is a kaffir (infidel); just as having doubt in the disbelief of the Jews, Christians, and the atheists (Al-Fatawa Vol 2, P368). But for those for whose kufr (infidelity) the scholars dispute, such as the one who abandons As" Salat (the five daily prayers without rejecting its obligation); this does not fall under this nullifier.

- In regards to praising the kuffar (infidels), the Muslim must take great care. If praising them in their faith, this is considered as kufr (infidelity). Whereas praising their behavior (such as their courage or their generosity) is permissible. But one thing the Muslim must avoid, which is considered sinful, is to call a kaffir (infidel) "Mister" as the Messenger (PBUH) said (of which meaning translates as): "When you call the hypocrite 'Mister', you have made your Lord angry" (Reported by An- Nasa'i).



Its also important to remember the ayat of Surah'tul Imraan

81. And (remember) when Allâh took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allâh, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him." Allâh said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."

82. Then whoever turns away after this, they are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious: those who turn away from Allâh's Obedience).

83. Do they seek other than the religion of Allâh (the true Islâmic Monotheism worshipping none but Allâh Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

84. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "We believe in Allâh and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)] and what was given to Mûsa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allâh) we have submitted (in Islâm)."

85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[].

86. How shall Allâh guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? And Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers).

87. They are those whose recompense is that on them (rests) the Curse of Allâh, of the angels, and of all mankind.

88. They will abide therein (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened, nor will it be delayed or postponed (for a while).

And Allah knows best

[AhmadibnNasroon]

Salam aleykum. According to Quran those who claim the trinity are kafiroon. Are the non-trinitarian christians also kafiroon? I don't know very well..I also don't know wheter they go hell or heaven..

Allah mentions the Christians who say "thrice" as well as those who say Isa ibn Maryam alayhi'salam is the son of Allah (a3udhubillah). So both are kafiroon.

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!”

[al-Tawbah 9:30]

[AhmadibnNasroon]

O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word, (‘Be!’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One Ilaah (God), glory is to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”

[al-Nisa’ 4:171]

[AhmadibnNasroon]

what if god forgives the non believers and not us do u know that or forgives all of us afcourse not

Won't happen as Allah says...

18. And of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil deeds until death faces one of them and he says: "Now I repent;" nor of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful torment. - Surah Nisa'a 18

48. Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. - Surah Nisa'a 48

[abu_musab461]

the is no change in the Sunnah (way) of Allah (swt) (Quran)

[Sampharo]

As others have said: to disbelieve in Quran and the prophet Mohamed is to be a disbeliever. God has given the christians and jews acceptance before the time of prophet Mohamed, but once the message of Mohamed came, it reached them, and they rejected it, they became disbelievers.

Yes there are things in common, with monotheism. Even today we are allowed to eat their food and muslim men can marry their women, we cannot do that with Hindus or athiests. However that is where it stops, as the refusal to head the word of God that was mentioned in the Tourat, Thalmud and Injeel, many of which exist today in their old and new testaments still, makes them disbelievers. The only question is whether they have RECEIVED the message of Mohamed properly or not, and whether receiving an altered or twisted repulsive news of Islam counts or not, that is for God to judge. He will handle their accounts on the day of judgement and send whomever deserves to heaven and whomever deserves onto Hell. God says in a holy speech "I have forbidden injustice upon myself, so do not practice it amongst you" so do not think for a second that God that created us will ever be unjust or unfair to any single soul.

Our role is to make as much Da'wa and enlighten people to the true Islam as much as we can. Most reports of Da'wa say that many christians including priests who debate with muslim scholars, end up embracing Islam quickly. That shows you who has the right heart, and God made them find their way. Those who deny and act arrogant are thus choosing their own way.

May God provide us all with guidance till the day we die.