Ways you have had attempt conversions?

[Clover]

I have had many people (Christians, Muslims, 1 really awesome Jewish guy, I love him to death, respectful, and didn't even really try, just educated me, and also Pagans) have tried to convert me. Heal me, Save me, and on and on...Here are some of the things they used, laugh, I did:

1. Tao is God. This Christian once asked me, "what if your Tao, is Our God?" Well, here is what he did, to strengthen that question. 1. He said our, instead of my. He was trying to show that we had a similar belief, when in reality, we didn't good move, but not good when the other guy knows his beliefs, and isn't questioning them. Also, Tao is said in the TTC to be "The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth, The named is the mother of myriad things." So, Tao is everything, nothing, and anything. My finger is Tao, the bacteria on the very tip of my finger nail (yes their is bacteria there on just about everybody I believe, but if you want to prove me wrong on that, feel free to do so :p" but God isn't that, at least, when I asked him he said it wasn't. So hence, impossible for God to be Tao.

2. God Created Tao. Sorry, not possible. Tao is everything and nothing, so if their is a God, it's part of Tao, but not Tao, and I do not believe a God could co-exist with Tao, because Gods are supposed to be almighty, and compared to Tao, it wouldn't be.

3. God is greater then Tao, same as above, its not possible if Tao is everything and nothing. Sorry.

4. Their could be many demi-gods of Taoism, this is more feasible then God being greater or their even being a god. Cause, to my knowledge at least, demi-gods aren't supposed to be perfect, but better then humanity, and I think that could even be possible, but I don't believe it until I see one.

5. Taoism, fake? Well, this could be, but if your going to argue that my beliefs are fake, don't get angry when I say yours could be too, and saying "but God is real" doesn't fix that problem on your side.

I have more, but I felt like stopping cause I found a great song to listen too lol, if you want more from any individual religion asking, don't stall, and I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on these arguments.

['Abd-al Latif]

Also, Tao is said in the TTC to be "The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth, The named is the mother of myriad things." So, Tao is everything, nothing, and anything. My finger is Tao, the bacteria on the very tip of my finger nail (yes their is bacteria there on just about everybody I believe, but if you want to prove me wrong on that, feel free to do so " but God isn't that, at least, when I asked him he said it wasn't. So hence, impossible for God to be Tao.

That didn't make the least bit of sense. How can everything and nothing be counted as a single entity?

[Clover]

That didn't make the least bit of sense. How can everything and nothing be counted as a single entity?

Do you want me to quote from the TTC?

['Abd-al Latif]

Do you want me to quote from the TTC?

What's the TCC?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Clover]

What's the TCC?

Tao Te Ching.

[alcurad]

but clover, there is no such thing as 'nothing'. 'nothing' does not exist, how could it be 'there'?

IMO God is somewhat similar to Tao at that, he does know everything, he is closer to us than we are, he sustains all and guides all, nothing goes that he does not ordain/know about etc.

Tao is not god himself, it's an attempt at describing the world, there are many parallels though, just as there are many ways of describing the world itself.

[Clover]

but clover, there is no such thing as 'nothing'. 'nothing' does not exist, how could it be 'there'?

IMO God is somewhat similar to Tao at that, he does know everything, he is closer to us than we are, he sustains all and guides all, nothing goes that he does not ordain/know about etc.

lol, nope. Not in the least bit. Tao isn't all knowing. It is everything, and nothing. It is space, and stars, and planets, and galaxies.

[alcurad]

hmm, to me it seems to be simply relabeling, calling the world/laws that govern it 'Tao' or anything else does not make us understand either more, don't you agree?

[Clover]

hmm, to me it seems to be simply relabeling, calling the world/laws that govern it 'Tao' or anything else does not make us understand either more, don't you agree?

ugh. Insulting my beliefs gets you no where sir. Good Day.

[alcurad]

not my intent actually :), I was just pointing to parsimony.
btw, it's night here down south ^.

[Clover]

not my intent actually :), I was just pointing to parsimony.
btw, it's night here down south ^.

Your in Indiana, thats middle, not South. I am in Tennessee, thats south.

[GuestFellow]

Hmmm

Interesting. I shall do more reading on this.

['Abd-al Latif]

lol, nope. Not in the least bit. Tao isn't all knowing. It is everything, and nothing. It is space, and stars, and planets, and galaxies.

So - unless i'm missing something - Toaism doesn't revolve around god, how does that make it a religion?

And yes please do quote from the TCC, if it'll help me understand how everything and nothing is a single entity...

[Clover]

So - unless i'm missing something - Toaism doesn't revolve around god, how does that make it a religion?

And yes please do quote from the TCC, if it'll help me understand how everything and nothing is a single entity...

You can have a religion without a God :).

its TTC, not TCC.

hmm, give me a day, I have to gather up quotes, I am hoping to get you at least 10.

[Woodrow]

Quite interesting Clover. I believe the yin-yang from I-Ching very nicely sums up the concept of Tao, that is if I am understang yin-yng properly. Two fish, each nothing but still opposites of each other and together being everything.

A very hard concept for the non-Chinese mind to understand, yet reflected in every aspect of Chinese life.

I do agree with you in the view that Allaah(swt) is not Tao.

Just a question:

Do Taoists worship Tao or is Tao more like a state of mind similar to Zen?

[Clover]

Quite interesting Clover. I believe the yin-yang from I-Ching very nicely sums up the concept of Tao, that is if I am understang yin-yng properly. Two fish, each nothing but still opposites of each other and together being everything.

A very hard concept for the non-Chinese mind to understand, yet reflected in every aspect of Chinese life.

I do agree with you in the view that Allaah(swt) is not Tao.

Just a question:

Do Taoists worship Tao or is Tao more like a state of mind similar to Zen?

I am not Chinese, so it can't be that hard. ;D

Zen, is Chi. Zen came from Chi. Basically, copied and pasted. Of course, Zen Buddhists would disagree, they can, I don't blame them.

Tao, is just a fact of life, to me, but Chi is what most call Zen. Chi=Zen=Power. If you can access Chi, you have a power supply, that is much stronger then any muscle group in the body. Bruce Lee, he gained power of his Chi, and used it to his advantage.

[Woodrow]

I am not Chinese, so it can't be that hard. ;D

Zen, is Chi. Zen came from Chi. Basically, copied and pasted. Of course, Zen Buddhists would disagree, they can, I don't blame them.

Tao, is just a fact of life, to me, but Chi is what most call Zen. Chi=Zen=Power. If you can access Chi, you have a power supply, that is much stronger then any muscle group in the body. Bruce Lee, he gained power of his Chi, and used it to his advantage.

Here I was attributing my interest in Chinese culture and beliefs to my Mongolian (Tatar) ancestral branches on the family tree, and you just let me know it could have also come from some of the white branches.

It does seem that Taoism, like Buddhism is a very well rounded way of life. Another similarity is the concept that Tao is a simple fact of life.

Do you view Taoism as a religion or as a philosophy of a good way to live? Is being a Taoist a conflict with a belief in God(swt)

I had a dear relative who claimed to simultaneously be a Taoist, Buddhist and Christian and had no conflict with following all 3.

[alcurad]

a power supply, that is much stronger then any muscle group in the body. Bruce Lee, he gained power of his Chi, and used it to his advantage.

he died from an allergic reaction to a pain med I think :hmm:

btw, you seem to follow a more personal brand of Taoism? or maybe it's not a centrist belief in the first place?

[Clover]

Here I was attributing my interest in Chinese culture and beliefs to my Mongolian (Tatar) ancestral branches on the family tree, and you just let me know it could have also come from some of the white branches.

It does seem that Taoism, like Buddhism is a very well rounded way of life. Another similarity is the concept that Tao is a simple fact of life.

Do you view Taoism as a religion or as a philosophy of a good way to live? Is being a Taoist a conflict with a belief in God(swt)

I had a dear relative who claimed to simultaneously be a Taoist, Buddhist and Christian and had no conflict with following all 3.

Then he obviously didn't follow Taoism like me.

[Clover]

he died from an allergic reaction to a pain med I think :hmm:

btw, you seem to follow a more personal brand of Taoism? or maybe it's not a centrist belief in the first place?

He had a heart attack while on stage. He died fighting evil.

Their is no central beliefs, except that Tao is Tao. Every Taoist is different.

[alcurad]

evil pays off it seems :/

i see, interesting belief. we wait for the quotes :)

[Woodrow]

I have one final question and I will be done picking your brain. I notice your Avatar is a Japanese shindin also called a honden they are all named and the one in your avatar has the meishō shōgō of the one named Osaka-gokoku-jinja being built of only the torii and haiden.

Now for the question: Is there a relationship between Shintoism and Taoism or is your Avatar simply a coincidence?

[Clover]

I have one final question and I will be done picking your brain. I notice your Avatar is a Japanese shindin also called a honden they are all named and the one in your avatar has the meishō shōgō of the one named Osaka-gokoku-jinja being built of only the torii and haiden.

Now for the question: Is there a relationship between Shintoism and Taoism or is your Avatar simply a coincidence?

I am a Shintoist and Taoist. I am waiting for the admin to change my thing to both.

[Woodrow]

I am a Shintoist and Taoist. I am waiting for the admin to change my thing to both.

I see.

Thank you for answering my questions.

As for changing your Belief preference, it will take somebody with more knowledge then I have to change it so it shows both belief systems. I think I can change it for one or the other, but I am too hard headed to figure out how to get it to do both.

Just my opinion but I think it is best if you have it as just one or the other and explain in posts such as you just did that you follow both.

[Clover]

I see.

Thank you for answering my questions.

As for changing your Belief preference, it will take somebody with more knowledge then I have to change it so it shows both belief systems. I think I can change it for one or the other, but I am too hard headed to figure out how to get it to do both.

Just my opinion but I think it is best if you have it as just one or the other and explain in posts such as you just did that you follow both.

Your Welcome.

I asked eHafiz, he said he would work on it, although it has been sometime since then...

Not really. I believe both equally, and too not show both, is confusing too many. Like it was just now.

[Woodrow]

Your Welcome.

I asked eHafiz, he said he would work on it, although it has been sometime since then...

Not really. I believe both equally, and too not show both, is confusing too many. Like it was just now.

I can understand your desire to show both. I was similar a long time back when I was an agnostic but considered my self to be a Buddhist who retained a lot of Christian beliefs and practices. I think back then I would have liked to have been called a Buddhist-Christian.

It took many years but I finally found that Islam was the answer to my thoughts and beliefs. I finally realized I was born Muslim, it only took me 65 years to accept that as fact.

[Clover]

I can understand your desire to show both. I was similar a long time back when I was an agnostic but considered my self to be a Buddhist who retained a lot of Christian beliefs and practices. I think back then I would have liked to have been called a Buddhist-Christian.

It took many years but I finally found that Islam was the answer to my thoughts and beliefs. I finally realized I was born Muslim, it only took me 65 years to accept that as fact.

Well, it took me 15 years to realize I was a follower of these two.

[Woodrow]

Well, it took me 15 years to realize I was a follower of these two.

I must say it is an interesting choice. I can see how a Taoist would have no problem with Shintoism, but I can not contemplate how a Shinto could resolve the differences with Taoism.

[Clover]

I must say it is an interesting choice. I can see how a Taoist would have no problem with Shintoism, but I can not contemplate how a Shinto could resolve the differences with Taoism.

PM if you want, but we have went too far in this thread I believe.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Ways you have had attempt conversions?

i dont really attempt to convert people tbh as i know it isnt in my hands. i try fix my manners and consideration towards others, have the proper knowledge of what im speaking about and be firm in what i believe. sometimes i feel it's necessary to present Islam to them in a way i may feel would appeal to them (if i know them well enough), so i may attempt that.....if i implement the aforementioned, then i believe the rest will follow, if allah wills. It is up to Allah to change the hearts.

so in other words, i just concentrate on what I personally need to do with myself first and not worry about how they may react to it.

[Trumble]

Do Taoists worship Tao or is Tao more like a state of mind similar to Zen?

Neither is "a state of mind"! At least no more than 'God' is. All three could only possibly be considered that from an outside perspective.