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jerryleeevans
08-13-2009, 12:56 PM
Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If so, what part of the Holy Qu'ran is this spoken about?
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Muslimlearner
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Yes,I know hadeeths not in Kur'an.3 days dawa,if he/she still disbelieve:death.
Also those who reject either fast in Ramadan or prayer also is in state of kufr (out of Islam) and the same applies to him/her.
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Afg
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Brother i thought someone was going to leave Islam from your title. Phew..that does not seem to be the case.
Im not sure, but i dont think so.
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aadil77
08-13-2009, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by jerryleeevans
Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If so, what part of the Holy Qu'ran is this spoken about?
here you can find out more about apostacy http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...asy-islam.html

this death penalty only applies in islamic states and since there is no islamic state it doesn't really exist
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convert
08-13-2009, 01:14 PM
Within the context of the Islamic state, when one becomes apostate it is generally that they are in collusion with enemy forces when doing so. It is akin to being a traitor. What is the punishment in the US for a traitor?

If you just leave Islam and go about you day without working against Islam and muslims then whatever, punishment comes on judgement day.
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Thinker
08-13-2009, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by jerryleeevans
Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If so, what part of the Holy Qu'ran is this spoken about?
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate

"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).
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Uthman
08-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Here is another useful thread where Ansar al-'Adl explains it fully, in it's proper context: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-apostasy.html
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Zafran
08-13-2009, 02:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate

"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).
dont quote hadiths if you dont know fiqh.
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NoorInaya
08-13-2009, 03:34 PM
The punishment for leaving Islam is only applicable if we have the Khilafah, which we do not. We hear stories these days where people are being killed, or sentenced to death in places like Afghanistan (by the Taliban), but it must be understood that those sentences are not permissible. In other words, the people sentencing and killing the people are in grave error, and will be dealt with for their actions.

Someone said, "three days dawah." It is not simply three days in a row. In actuality, the person must be counseled, and given a chance to come back to Islam. When there was a Khliafah, the person would be asked on three official occasions whether or not they wanted to return to Islam. If they did not, then they were sentenced.

BUT.... Since there is NO KHILAFAH, there is NO DEATH PENALTY FOR LEAVING ISLAM.

There have been people who left Islam, only to return many many years later. If we killed every person who left Islam, then these people would have missed out on the opportunity to come back to Islam.



Now.... I would like to address another post that was just made. Someone said, "don't quote hadith if you don't know fiqh." With all due respect, if we all followed that little bit of "advice," then NO ONE could quote hadith. Being a scholar of fiqh is not a pre-requisite for being able to quote or cite hadith. It is silly to even suggest that it is.
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markislam
08-13-2009, 03:57 PM
This scares me a bit, Islam is a religion of peace not of death
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Thinker
08-13-2009, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
dont quote hadiths if you dont know fiqh.
fiqh - if you mean my understanding or me knowing which school of jurisprudence what makes you think I don't understand (in fact I have read all (I believe all) the arguments on this question) and why do you think I need to know? As it happens, with regards to the text in question I merely cut it from the answer given by the 'scholars' at http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate.
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جوري
08-13-2009, 05:35 PM
This is the best and most comprehensive thread on Apostasy, I'd recommend reading it in full:
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-apostasy.html



format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
fiqh - if you mean my understanding or me knowing which school of jurisprudence what makes you think I don't understand (in fact I have read all (I believe all) the arguments on this question) and why do you think I need to know? As it happens, with regards to the text in question I merely cut it from the answer given by the 'scholars' at http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate.
You have quoted a very abridged reply.. It doesn't go into clause, or conditions. Now, I know many people have a desire to be insta scholars, so they go about searching for the most limited answer they can find simply to foster their own understanding. I'd refrain, since lay Muslims aren't allowed to simply pass fatwas, the secondary fatwa of a non-Muslim is even less acceptable especially more so, that we have covered this in quite the expansive detail in your 'sharia law' thread, from which apparently you have walked away with nothing!

all the best
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Zafran
08-13-2009, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
fiqh - if you mean my understanding or me knowing which school of jurisprudence what makes you think I don't understand (in fact I have read all (I believe all) the arguments on this question) and why do you think I need to know? As it happens, with regards to the text in question I merely cut it from the answer given by the 'scholars' at http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate.
scholars?? - do you know what school of Fiqh that "scholar" is using and what context that hadith is meant to be used at - because the only thing you did was copy and paste a hadith with zero fiqh and zero context. Thats is leading people astray. I dont care if you have read ALL the argumnets - you clearly gave 1....... - If you have no clue about the hadith science or Fiqh forget about even going close to hadiths.
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convert
08-14-2009, 04:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by markislam
This scares me a bit, Islam is a religion of peace not of death
Islam is neither a religion of peace nor a religion of war.
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Woodrow
08-15-2009, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by jerryleeevans
Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If so, what part of the Holy Qu'ran is this spoken about?
:wa:

It is not specifically found in the Qur'an it is found in the Ahadith and the fiqh of jurisprudence (Shariah Law)

To understand the law, you must understand the conditions under which apostasy is defined, it is not just leaving Islam. It treason against the nation and an attempt to overthrow the government.

The conditions under which the death penalty will apply are discussed in detail in other posts.

To sum everything up. Apostasy punishable by death is identical to high treason in any country. Every country I know of has the death penalty for high treason, it is a fitting punishment for a heinous crime.
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AntiKarateKid
08-15-2009, 05:02 PM
I always thought it was only applicable when there was a real Muslim state involved?
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AntiKarateKid
08-15-2009, 05:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sur
That's the way to beat about the bush.

Whenever anyone ask question about apostacy he's not worried about treason..... But scholars & their advertisers(Mods) make answer complicated. Question is NOT about treason, it is whether a person who just decides to leave islam , should he be killed...!!!


Treason is treason even if NO apostacy was involved.... That's a totally seperate topic.
It has everything to do with treason. The early Islamic governments had Islam fully meshed with citizenship. To betray Islam was to betray the state. Hence treason. Nowadays there are no states comparable to then, so I'm not sure if the death penalty applies or not.
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Rasema
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

The same law was mentioned in the Old Testament. I'll get it in the future inshAllah.

Yes, the punishment is death after 3 day of talk with scholars.
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Rasema
08-19-2009, 08:22 PM
PLEASE READ THIS:


Question:

I am happy to have found this website of yours. I was born a Muslim and I learned a lot of Islamic teachings after I reached adolescence. I am trying to understand my religion.
I have read in some of your answers on the issue of apostasy that the punishment for the apostate is to be put to death. But I have read on another website that the apostate who is to be put to death is the one who wages war on Islam (muhaarib).
I am more inclined towards the second opinion.
The reason for that is that I have friends who were born in Muslim families and who have Muslim names, but some of them do not know how to do wudoo’ or how to pray, but they acknowledge the Shahaadatayn.
Can we regard these people as apostates and thus put them to death?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The Muslim should not incline more towards one scholarly opinion rather than another just because it is in accordance with his whims and desires or his reasoning. Rather he has to accept the ruling based on evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah. It is essential to put the texts and rulings of sharee’ah before all else.

Secondly:

Apostasy (riddah) and going out of Islam are things that may be done in the heart, on the tongue or in one's actions.

Apostasy may take place in the heart, such as disbelieving in Allaah, or believing that there is another creator alongside Allaah, or hating Allaah or His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Apostasy may take the form of words spoken on the tongue, such as defaming Allaah or the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Or apostasy may take the form of outward physical actions, such as prostrating to an idol, mistreating the Mus-haf, or not praying.

The apostate (murtadd) is worse than one who is a kaafir in the first place.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said, refuting the pantheistic belief of the Baatinis:

It is well known that the kaafir Tatars are better than these (Baatinis), because the latter are apostates from Islam, of the worst type of apostates. The apostate is worse than one who is a kaafir in the first place in many aspects.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 1/193

Secondly:

Not every Muslim who falls into kufr is a kaafir and apostate. There are reasons why a Muslim may be excused and not judged to be a kaafir, for example: ignorance, misunderstanding, being forced, and making mistakes.

With regard to the first, a man may be ignorant of the ruling of Allaah, because he lives far from the Muslim lands, such as one who grows up in the desert or in a kaafir land, or has only recently come to Islam. This may include many of those Muslims who live in societies where ignorance prevails and knowledge is scarce. These are the ones concerning whom the questioner is confused as to whether they are to be judged as kaafirs and executed.

The second reason is if a person interprets the ruling of Allaah in a manner not intended by the Lawgiver, such as those who blindly follow the people of bid’ah (innovation) in their misinterpretations, such as the Murji’ah, Mu’tazilah, Khawaarij and the like.

The third reason is if an oppressor overwhelms a Muslim and will not let him go until he makes a blatant statement of kufr out loud in order to ward off the torture, when his heart is at ease with faith.

The fourth is when words of kufr come to one's lips without meaning it.

Not everyone who is ignorant about wudoo’ and prayer can be excused, when he seed the Muslims establishing prayer and praying regularly, and he can read and hear the verses on prayer. What is preventing him from praying or from asking about how it is done and what its essential conditions are?

Fourthly:

The apostate is not to be put to death immediately after he falls into apostasy, especially if his apostasy happens because of some doubt that arose. Rather he should be asked to repent and he should be offered the opportunity to return to Islam and resolve his doubts, if he has any doubts. Then if he persists in his apostasy after that, he is to be put to death.

Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni, 9/18:

The apostate should not be put to death until he has been asked to repent three times. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including ‘Umar, ‘Ali, ‘Ata’, al-Nakhaii, Maalik, al-Thawri, al-Awzaa’i, Ishaaq and others. Because apostasy comes about because of doubt, and cannot be dispelled in an instant. Time should be allowed for the person to rethink the matter, and the best length of time is three days.

End quote.

The saheeh Sunnah indicates that it is essential to put the apostate to death.

Al-Bukhaari (6922) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, put him to death.”

Al-Bukhaari (6484) and Muslim (1676) narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a previously-married person who commits zina; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of the Muslims.”

The general meaning of these ahaadeeth indicates that it is essential to put the apostate to death whether he is waging war on Islam (muhaarib) or not.

The view that the apostate who is to be put to death is the one who is waging war on Islam (muhaarib) only is contrary to these ahaadeeth. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that the reason why he should be put to death is his apostasy, not his waging war against Islam.

Undoubtedly some kinds of apostasy are more abhorrent than others, and the apostasy of one who wages war against Islam is more abhorrent than that of anyone else. Hence some of the scholars differentiated between them, and said that it is not essential to ask the muhaarib to repent or to accept his repentance; rather he should be put to death even if he repents, whereas the repentance of one who is not a muhaarib should be accepted and he should not be put to death. This is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him).

He said:

Apostasy is of two types: ordinary apostasy and extreme apostasy, for which execution is prescribed. In both cases there is evidence that it is essential to execute the apostate, but the evidence indicating that the sentence of death may be waived if the person repents does not apply to both types of apostasy. Rather the evidence indicates that that is allowed only in the first case – i.e., ordinary apostasy – as will be clear to anyone who studies the evidence that speaks about accepting the repentance of the apostate. In the second type – i.e., extreme apostasy – the obligation to put the apostate to death still stands, and there is no text or scholarly consensus to indicate that the death sentence may be waived. The two cases are quite different and there is no comparison between them. It does not say in the Qur’aan or Sunnah, or according to scholarly consensus, that everyone who apostatizes in word or deed may be spared the death sentence if he repents after he is a captured and tried. Rather the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and scholarly consensus, differentiate between the different kinds of apostates.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 3/696

Al-Hallaaj was one of the most well known heretics who were put to death without being asked to repent. Al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad said:

The Maaliki fuqaha’ of Baghdad at the time of al-Muqtadir were unanimously agreed that al-Hallaaj should be killed and crucified because of his claim to divinity and his belief in incarnation, and his saying “I am al-Haqq [God],” even though he outwardly appeared to adhere to sharee’ah, and they did not accept his repentance.

Al-Shifa bi Ta’reef Huqooq al-Mustafa, 2/1091.

Based on this, it is clear that what the questioner says about the apostate not being killed unless he is waging war on Islam is mistaken, and the differentiation that we have quoted from Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah may dispel any confusion and make the matter clearer.

Waging war against Islam is not limited only to fighting with weapons, rather it may be done verbally such as defaming Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or attacking the Qur’aan, and so on. Waging verbal war against Islam may be worse than waging war against it with weapons in some cases.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

Muhaarabah (waging war against Islam) is of two types: physical and verbal. Waging war verbally against Islam may be worse than waging war physically – as stated above – hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to kill those who waged war against Islam verbally, whilst letting off some of those who waged war against Islam physically. This ruling is to be applied more strictly after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Mischief may be caused by physical action or by words, but the damage caused by words is many times greater than that caused by physical action; and the goodness achieved by words in reforming may be many times greater than that achieved by physical action. It is proven that waging war against Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) verbally is worse and the efforts on earth to undermine religion by verbal means is more effective.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 3/735

Fifthly:

With regard to not praying, the correct view is that the one who does not pray is a kaafir and an apostate. See question no. 5208.

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A

Source - http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/14231/
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Grace Seeker
08-19-2009, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
Here is another useful thread where Ansar al-'Adl explains it fully, in it's proper context: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...-apostasy.html
While I appreciate brother Ansar's explanation, I wonder if the Taliban or those in Malaysia who are actually killing converts to other religions will be influenced any by it.
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'Abd-al Latif
08-19-2009, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostate

"Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).
Though Thinker may have posted this without knowing much of the context of this hadeeth, this is the ruling on such a case.

There is however much more that has been discussed by the Muslim Scholars regarding this topic and the ruling regarding apostasy should be refered back to them because there is a lot that has not been covered on this thread.

For the time being, relevant threads and articles have been posted which will have to do for now. If anyone wishes to continue this discussion then you may refer to the older threads provided in previous posts.

:threadclo
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