Moses and the Burning Bush

[IsaImpliesHope]

The Qur'an contains three different accounts of the familiar story of Moses and the Burning Bush, namely S. 20:9-24, S. 27:7-14 and S. 28:29-33. I have a few questions I'd be interested to hear answers to:

1) What was Allah's purpose in giving three different accounts of the same event?
2) Related to the first question, what can we learn from the differences between the three accounts?
3) Is there an authoritative 'harmonization' of these accounts which could tell us what was actually said?
4) As a separate issue entirely, are there any other stories in the Qur'an where a prophet speaks to Allah directly (if, indeed, Moses does in this case)?

[The_Prince]

i have checked all three sources, and they are not three different accounts at all, rather in some of the accounts more info is given. who said that when Allah gives an account of something that he always has to repeat the same account word for word? rather he can talk about the same event in different places and always add more details to this event, details he didnt mention in a previous surah, and then you just put it all together. this is something normal.

[جوري]

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ord-god-4.html

[IsaImpliesHope]

i have checked all three sources, and they are not three different accounts at all, rather in some of the accounts more info is given. who said that when Allah gives an account of something that he always has to repeat the same account word for word? rather he can talk about the same event in different places and always add more details to this event, details he didnt mention in a previous surah, and then you just put it all together. this is something normal.

Thank you for your answer, The_Prince, but I'm not sure you actually addressed my questions. I'm not intending to impose any limits on what Allah can or cannot do - rather I would like to understand why Allah reveals the way he does.

Gossamer skye, I read the thread but didn't read anything to do with the Burning Bush stories. In this thread I'm working under the assumption that the Qur'an is Allah's revelation (hence why I have posted in Clarifications), not trying to argue against it. Given this assumption that Allah revealed the three accounts, it seems natural to ask what the significance is in the differences He has revealed to us.

I hope this clears up the intended nature of this thread.

Peace.

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[Woodrow]

The Qur'an contains three different accounts of the familiar story of Moses and the Burning Bush, namely S. 20:9-24, S. 27:7-14 and S. 28:29-33. I have a few questions I'd be interested to hear answers to:

1) What was Allah's purpose in giving three different accounts of the same event?
2) Related to the first question, what can we learn from the differences between the three accounts?
3) Is there an authoritative 'harmonization' of these accounts which could tell us what was actually said?
4) As a separate issue entirely, are there any other stories in the Qur'an where a prophet speaks to Allah directly (if, indeed, Moses does in this case)?

Peace, Shalom, Salaam IsaImpliesHope,

I do like your choice of a name. Isa(as) is very much loved by Muslims and that is a fitting title for Him.

Now to address your concerns. I am not qualified and not worthy of giving Tasfir so this is just the opinions of an old man who Loves to read the Qur'an and Loved to read the Bible when I was Christian.

"1) What was Allah's purpose in giving three different accounts of the same event?"

Perhaps I am confused. But I do not see 3 different accounts. Perhaps because I am reading it in Arabic and not using a translation. If you see any contradiction in the writings please tell me what you see as differences and I will put it up in Arabic and try to show, in English, how the 3 compliment and complete each other.


"2) Related to the first question, what can we learn from the differences between the three accounts?"

Reading the three as the description of the same event. I see it as showing us proof that Musa(as) was a true Prophet(PBUT). The life and words of Musa(as) were a true guidance given to his people. It also shows us that Allaah(swt) has always given guidence to mankind by Revelations to Prophets(PBUT) and that Allaah(swt) did send messengers to all people.

"3) Is there an authoritative 'harmonization' of these accounts which could tell us what was actually said?"

I see them as flowing smoothly together when read in Arabic. Reading them together is very even flowing.

These 3 Surat seem to have been written with the intent mankind should read them together as a single reading. I find the First ayyat after the Bismillah in each to be quite compelling encouragement for us to read them together.

20: 2 (Ta Ha) طه


27: 2(Ta Sin) طس


28: 2 (Ta Sin Mim) طسم

I find it quite interesting that Surah 26 also begins with

طسم

It is also interesting that Surahs 20, 26, 27 and 28 all have considerable mention of Musa(as). Now if you look at the first three ayyats in 26,27 and 28 In both 26 and 28 the Qur'an is described as being a book to make things clear while in 27 we are told we were sent a book most illuminating. In 20 in the first 3 ayyats we are told the Qur'an was not sent to cause distress.

The more I read the more it seems A statement is made in 20 then we have 26, 27 and 28 clarifying what was said and explaining what we should have learned from Surah 20.


"4) As a separate issue entirely, are there any other stories in the Qur'an where a prophet speaks to Allah directly (if, indeed, Moses does in this case)?"

I believe most if not all scholars have come to the conclusion it was an Angel that spoke to Musa(as). However since the Angels have no free will and can only speak what Allaah(swt) has spoken. The correspond very much to being living tape recorders.

i do not think any scholars believe Allaah(swt) has ever spoken directly to a Prophet but always through an Angel who most scholars believe to have been Jibril (Gabrial in English)

[YusufNoor]

The Qur'an contains three different accounts of the familiar story of Moses and the Burning Bush, namely S. 20:9-24, S. 27:7-14 and S. 28:29-33. I have a few questions I'd be interested to hear answers to:

1) What was Allah's purpose in giving three different accounts of the same event?

there are many stories repeated in the Qur'an. each time a story is repeated, different points are made.

2) Related to the first question, what can we learn from the differences between the three accounts?

in Sha'a Allah, i will relate one of them briefly below!

3) Is there an authoritative 'harmonization' of these accounts which could tell us what was actually said?

there is no contradiction, so harmonizing isn't necessary. Tafseer's should answer your questions.

4) As a separate issue entirely, are there any other stories in the Qur'an where a prophet speaks to Allah directly (if, indeed, Moses does in this case)?

Salaam,

9:
Muhsin Khan: And has there come to you the story of Musa (Moses)?
10:
Muhsin Khan: When he saw a fire, he said to his family: "Wait! Verily, I have seen a fire, perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."

here we see that Musa has seen light. his instinct is that his is a beneficial light. so he feels the need to attain some of this light either for sustenance or guidance for his family. as guidance, Musa is seeking to attain knowledge so that he may impart it to his family. a lesson to us all.

11:
Muhsin Khan: And when he came to it (the fire), he was called by name: "O Musa (Moses)!
12:
Muhsin Khan: "Verily! I am your Lord! So take off your shoes, you are in the sacred valley, Tuwa.

here we see that our shoes are what keeps us in contact with the dunya[world]. Musa was asked to take them off. therefore, when we are to speak with Allah [in Salat], we should try to disconnect ourselves from the dunya! we do this through wuduu [spiritual cleansing] and by making dua[ prayer] or thikr[remembrance of Allah]. it is preparation for salah.

13:
Muhsin Khan: "And I have chosen you. So listen to that which is inspired to you.
14:
Muhsin Khan: "Verily! I am Allah! La ilaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but I), so worship Me, and perform As*Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) for My Remembrance.
15:
Muhsin Khan: "Verily, the Hour is coming and My Will is to keep it hidden that every person may be rewarded for that which he strives.
16:
Muhsin Khan: "Therefore, let not the one who believes not therein (i.e. in the Day of Resurrection, Reckoning, Paradise and Hell, etc.), but follows his own lusts, divert you therefrom, lest you perish.

follow the instructions of Allah, through the Messengers, avoiding the creation of man.
17:
Muhsin Khan: "And what is that in your right hand, O Musa (Moses)?"
18:
Muhsin Khan: He said: "This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses."

here we see that when Musa is given a chance to speak with his Creator, he takes full advantage of it! we should learn from this! even though Allah KNOWS what is in Musa's hand, He gives him [Musa] an opportunity to speak! Musa could have said: "This is my stick." and left it at that, but he added, "whereon I lean," and that might have been enough, but Musa, enjoying this privilege, continues, "and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep!" and being Musa, even though he found himself at a loss of words to describe what he actually does with the stick, added, "and wherein I find other uses!" while this shows us how much Musa was enjoying the opportunity to speak with his Rabb. our Remembrance of Allah does not benefit Allah by one iota! He is not in need of it. it is WE who benefit from the Remembrance of Allah! it also shows how the Qur'an is alot like a conversation with Allah! the same way that in a telephone conversation, you might go back and forth between subjects, returning to some to add color or flavor or to stress a point, the Qur'an does the same thing; Allah is speaking to us in a way that we also speak!

19:
Muhsin Khan: (Allah) said: "Cast it down, O Musa (Moses)!"
20:
Muhsin Khan: He cast it down, and behold! It was a snake, moving quickly.
21:
Muhsin Khan: Allah said:"Grasp it, and fear not, We shall return it to its former state,
22:
Muhsin Khan: "And press your (right) hand to your (left) side, it will come forth white (and shining), without any disease as another sign,
23:
Muhsin Khan: "That We may show you (some) of Our Greater Signs.
24:
Muhsin Khan: "Go to Fir'aun (Pharaoh)! Verily, he has transgressed (all bounds in disbelief and disobedience, and has behaved as an arrogant, and as a tyrant)."

those are just some of the ways in which the repeating of a story is done to guide us and teach us further. those points are taken from lectures given by Muft Ismail Menk. you can listen to some of his lectures and Tafseer here:

http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

:wa:

[جوري]

Gossamer skye, I read the thread but didn't read anything to do with the Burning Bush stories. In this thread I'm working under the assumption that the Qur'an is Allah's revelation (hence why I have posted in Clarifications), not trying to argue against it. Given this assumption that Allah revealed the three accounts, it seems natural to ask what the significance is in the differences He has revealed to us.

I hope this clears up the intended nature of this thread.

Peace.

You are right, it has nothing to do with the burning bush, rather verse repetition in the Quran, the wisdom behind it and its varieties as addressing one event from different facets! ..
It should be the foundation to answer questions of similar nature!

All the best

[IsaImpliesHope]

Salaam, Woodrow, and thank you for your extremely interesting post! Would you mind elaborating on your answers to the first two questions, and we could look at the second two later on in the thread? (I'm not a fan of writing long posts!)

"1) What was Allah's purpose in giving three different accounts of the same event?"

Perhaps I am confused. But I do not see 3 different accounts. Perhaps because I am reading it in Arabic and not using a translation. If you see any contradiction in the writings please tell me what you see as differences and I will put it up in Arabic and try to show, in English, how the 3 compliment and complete each other.

Unfortunately I am limited to English translations, and I've been reading Yusuf Ali's translation. Do the differences in the English translation correspond to differences in the Arabic?

For example, what Moses says to his family:

S. 20:10 ..."Tarry ye: I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance At the fire."

S. 27:7 ..."I perceive A fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel that ye may warm yourselves."

S. 28:29 ..."Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand that ye may warm yourselves."

In the first and third the English translation seems to imply that Moses is hoping to bring some burning brand or guidance/information, whereas in the second Moses seems certain that he will do so. Is this difference (if, indeed, I'm interpreting the English correctly?) found in the Arabic?

"2) Related to the first question, what can we learn from the differences between the three accounts?"

Reading the three as the description of the same event. I see it as showing us proof that Musa(as) was a true Prophet(PBUT). The life and words of Musa(as) were a true guidance given to his people. It also shows us that Allaah(swt) has always given guidence to mankind by Revelations to Prophets(PBUT) and that Allaah(swt) did send messengers to all people.

I'm not sure I understand why three accounts would be required to reveal these points - surely any one of these accounts would suffice?

[YusufNoor]

here are some English lectures that deal with the life of Moses. the speaker, Bashar Shala has Arabic for a native tongue, but he attempts to give a fuller meaning of some of the Ayats in English.

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...3_Prophet_Musa

there is another account of Moses in Surat Al Kah, the story of Moses and Al Qhidr:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me..._Surah_Al-Kahf

I'm not sure I understand why three accounts would be required to reveal these points - surely any one of these accounts would suffice?

:hmm:

have you ever had a conversation with someone about about someone you love, let's say a child of yours. after having mentioned the child once in conversation, would you prevent yourself from discussing the child again on the grounds that you had already mentioned him or her. OR because you love that child, would you feel free to speak about him or her as often as you like?

:wa:

[IsaImpliesHope]

Salaam, YusufNoor, and thanks for your posts. Unfortunately I have limited time at the moment to listen the lectures you linked - I already have a large pile up of lectures to listen to let alone all the "real work" I should be doing! Do you by any chance have access to brief transcripts/notes for the lectures?

I couldn't see in the large quote you gave where it addressed the differences between the accounts - is this what Mufti Ismail Menk goes on to talk about in the lectures?

I found this point you made extremely interesting:

have you ever had a conversation with someone about about someone you love, let's say a child of yours. after having mentioned the child once in conversation, would you prevent yourself from discussing the child again on the grounds that you had already mentioned him or her. OR because you love that child, would you feel free to speak about him or her as often as you like?

First, just to point out that you did quote me out of context a little! I was saying that it wouldn't be necessary for Allah to tell the story three times in order to reveal the points Woodrow made (this is what "these points" refers to). But I am certainly not saying that it wouldn't be necessary in all cases if Allah had other purposes and points to reveal.

Are you saying that the reason Allah has revealed the story three times is to show that he loves Moses or gets joy from retelling the story? Could you elaborate?

[AntiKarateKid]

It's not hard to understand. The same story was brought up three times for different purposes and to deliver whatever message the context implied.

[YusufNoor]

Salaam, YusufNoor, and thanks for your posts. Unfortunately I have limited time at the moment to listen the lectures you linked - I already have a large pile up of lectures to listen to let alone all the "real work" I should be doing! Do you by any chance have access to brief transcripts/notes for the lectures?

no, but i think you wil find all that i posted contained in this lecture right here, if the page shifts, it's called [A] Story of Musa:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol2.html#Part4

I couldn't see in the large quote you gave where it addressed the differences between the accounts - is this what Mufti Ismail Menk goes on to talk about in the lectures?

yes and more. in Ramadhan, we recite the entire Qur'an. in Taraweh, it is recited every night for 27-29 days. what Mufti Menk does is to explain what some of the Ayats recited in the that nights prayer mean and or why they were revealed. you can only pick a few Ayats or you would never leave.

I found this point you made extremely interesting:


First, just to point out that you did quote me out of context a little! I was saying that it wouldn't be necessary for Allah to tell the story three times in order to reveal the points Woodrow made (this is what "these points" refers to). But I am certainly not saying that it wouldn't be necessary in all cases if Allah had other purposes and points to reveal.

just because Uncle Woodrow, Abdullah Muhammad, made 3 points, it doesn't mean that they are the only 3 points to be made. the are some stories of the Sahabah and Tabaeen learning the Qur'an 8 Ayats at a time, understanding them and putting them into action as they learn them. as a result some of them are said to have spent 8 years just learning Surat Al Baqarah!

Are you saying that the reason Allah has revealed the story three times is to show that he loves Moses or gets joy from retelling the story? Could you elaborate?

the Qur'an is a like "a conversation with Allah!" and seeing how we don't generally have extremely linear conversations, topics go back and forth.

there are basically 2 kinds of Ayats [Surah by name, but technically Ayat] in the Qur'an. those revealed before Hijra, called Makkan, and those revealed AFTER Hijra, referred to as Medinan. you will find that the Makkan Ayats[verses] mainly deal with faith and the history of faith. most of the small Surahs in the latter part of the Qur'an are Makkan Surahs. they specifically deal with issues like Tawheed, the Oneness of Allah, Heaven, Hell and Yawmul Qiyama [Judgment Day]. also included are MOST [i'm not sure if all] those Ayats dealing with the prior Prophets. the Madinan Ayats deal with Islamic Sharia[law], for the most part.

keep in mind that the Qur'an is "Allah talking to us" and when we make du'a [prayer in English], we are "talking to Allah."

now, as Muslims, we perform Salat. many translate it as prayer, but that's is oversimplifying. Salat actually combines Qur'an and dua into a formal worship of Allah. we make du'a all day long, from awaking to going to sleep, but Salat is different.

when Islam began, Muslims were required to pray to Slats and day PLUS Tahajjud, [prayer before dawn]. from one third to one half of the last part of the night, they would "stand" in prayer. in the "standing part" of Salat, Qiyam, we recite Al Fatihah and other Surahs from the Qur'an. for much of early Islam, they probably recited the ENTIRE Qur'an, and later had to chose what Surahs they would recite.

THIS is where repeated stories come in, Moses is mention over 80[iirc] times in the Qur'an. so along with learning about Allah, they were learning about other aspects of Iman [Faith in Allah] such as, the Angels, the other Revelations, the other Prophets, the Resurrection, Qiyama [Judgment] and Qadr [destiny from Allah]. while reciting Qur'an they were [as Arabic was their mother tongue] LEARNING their DEEN [Religion].

Are you saying that the reason Allah has revealed the story three times is to show that he loves Moses or gets joy from retelling the story? Could you elaborate?

we are not allowed to say something about Allah that we do not know for sure! we can't "invent lies about Allah!" but we can safely assume that Allah loves Moses, just as He would Jesus the son of Mary, John the Baptist, David, Solomon and any other Prophet mentioned in the Qur'an.

we can safely say the WE get joy from the retelling of stories and the listening to of the Qur'an provides Saqeena [calmness] as well as healing. we know that there is purpose of the telling and retelling of stories and as Brother Bashar Shala would say [quite enthusiastically] there is not one wasted word in the Qur'an and the structure of the very words themselves is a Miracle from Allah! it takes some time to begin to understand MANY of the different reasons behind certain Ayats!

:wa:

[Woodrow]

Salaam, Woodrow, and thank you for your extremely interesting post! Would you mind elaborating on your answers to the first two questions, and we could look at the second two later on in the thread? (I'm not a fan of writing long posts!)



Unfortunately I am limited to English translations, and I've been reading Yusuf Ali's translation. Do the differences in the English translation correspond to differences in the Arabic?

For example, what Moses says to his family:

S. 20:10 ..."Tarry ye: I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance At the fire."

S. 27:7 ..."I perceive A fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel that ye may warm yourselves."

S. 28:29 ..."Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand that ye may warm yourselves."

In the first and third the English translation seems to imply that Moses is hoping to bring some burning brand or guidance/information, whereas in the second Moses seems certain that he will do so. Is this difference (if, indeed, I'm interpreting the English correctly?) found in the Arabic?



I'm not sure I understand why three accounts would be required to reveal these points - surely any one of these accounts would suffice?

Peace,

i will only address part of this at the moment. I am a bit short on time today.

Please keep in mind what I write is my opinion and I am writing based primarily on the nature of the Arabic Language and not on Tafsir of the Qur'an.

"I'm not sure I understand why three accounts would be required to reveal these points - surely any one of these accounts would suffice?"

Arabic is a very rich and complex language. It is virtually impossible to Translate into any other language. Let us look again at these 3 ayyats This time in terms of language and why the same thought would need to have been written at least three times. Part of the Arbic language is the repetition. The Arabic language is more designed for memorization rather then written books.

It is very much part of the language to attempt to say a true statement at least 3 times and each time saying it with more emphasis. Most Arabic speakers would expect this and it would seem strange if something true was not repeated several times.

For example, what Moses says to his family:

S. 20:10 ..."Tarry ye: I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring yousome burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance At the fire."

S. 27:7 ..."I perceive A fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel that ye may warm yourselves."

S. 28:29 ..."Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand that ye may warm yourselves."

What seem to be a contradiction is in the terms I highlighted.

Here are those ayyat in Arabic I am highlighting those same parts. And giving a transliteration on the same high lighted parts.

20:10 (Y. Ali) Behold, he saw a fire: So he said to his family, "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."

S. 20:10 إِذْ رَأَى نَارًا فَقَالَ أَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا

لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِقَبَسٍ أَوْ أَجِدُ عَلَى النَّارِ هُدًى

Ith raa naran faqala liahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekum minha biqabasin aw ajidu AAala alnnari hudan

27:7 (Y. Ali) Behold! Moses said to his family: "I perceive a fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel, that ye may warn yourselves.

S. 27:7 سَآتِيكُم مِّنْهَا إِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِأَهْلِهِ إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا

بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ آتِيكُم بِشِهَابٍ قَبَسٍ لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ
Ith qala moosa liahlihi innee anastu naran saateekum minha bikhabarin aw ateekum bishihabin qabasin laAAallakum tastaloona


28:29 (Y. Ali) Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."


S.28:29 فَلَمَّا قَضَى مُوسَىالْأَجَلَ وَسَارَ بِأَهْلِهِ آنَسَ مِن جَانِبِ الطُّورِ نَارًا قَالَ لِأَهْلِهِ امْكُثُوا إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّي آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ جَذْوَةٍ مِنَ النَّارِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ

Falamma qada moosaalajala wasara biahlihi anasa min janibi alttoori naran qala liahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekum minha bikhabarin aw jathwatin mina alnnari laAAallakum tastaloona

In Arabic the concepts of Maybe, perhaps, will etc are not individually defined. The phrase آتِيكُم مِّنْهَا "ateekum Minah" carries those concepts and more it can not be accurately translated as simply meaning "perhaps I can bring" "soon will I bring you" or "I hope to bring you" it does carry those connotations and more.

Surah 27:7 does use the wording سَآتِيكُم مِّنْهَا pronounced saateekum minha the sa in front of ateekum does not indicate a future tense such as soon it is more of an emphaisis on the ateekum (to you) Similar to the Ka in Moroccan Arabic. No actual meaning but a tonal quality of emphasis. Future tenses in Arabic are indicated by the word Radee ردي

To accurately translate we would need to find an English word that conveys all of those connotations into a single thought. It seems Ali was using the connotations that he thought would keep the flow of words sounding like Smooth Elizabethan English. He seemed to be very concerned with keeping a smooth rhythm.

While Ali is one of the better translations he still does not catch the full concepts of Arabic in English. To Under stand any translation you need to read several and still it is better to also get a Tafsir (interpretation) from a qualified scholar.

[IsaImpliesHope]

It's not hard to understand. The same story was brought up three times for different purposes and to deliver whatever message the context implied.

This makes sense, thanks. Could you possibly elaborate on what these different purposes are? As you might be able to tell from the brief dialogue with Woodrow, my ability to interpret the English is rather poor!

[Ramisa]

Greetings,
Can you please show me the three accounts on this thread rather than telling the source JazakAllah Khayr. After that I will give my view,Insha'Allah.

Regards.

[IsaImpliesHope]

Woodrow, thanks for that really interesting post - I really love the concept of emphasis you explained and the way it comes out through the Arabic, I can see now why it is so hard to translate! I really appreciate your taking the time to explain these things to me, and I would love to read more if you can spare some more time.

YusufNoor, I found your summary of info about the Qur'an very useful indeed - though I think I was aware of most of the points you made, having them explained like that as a kind of big picture really helped to get my head around the way you understand prayer, worship and the use of the Qur'an - thanks!

[IsaImpliesHope]

Greetings,
Can you please show me the three accounts on this thread rather than telling the source JazakAllah Khayr. After that I will give my view,Insha'Allah.

Regards.

Salaam, Ramisa. Here are the three accounts (Yusuf Ali's translation):

S. 20: 9-24
9. Has the story of Moses reached thee?
10. Behold, he saw a fire: So he said to his family, "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."
11. But when he came to the fire, a voice was heard: "O Moses!
12. "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes: thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
13. "I have chosen thee: listen, then, to the inspiration (sent to thee).
14. "Verily, I am Allah. There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
15. "Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour.
16. "Therefore let not such as believe not therein but follow their own lusts, divert thee therefrom, lest thou perish!"..
17. "And what is that in the right hand, O Moses?"
18. He said, "It is my rod: on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses.
19. ((Allah)) said, "Throw it, O Moses!"
20. He threw it, and behold! It was a snake, active in motion.
21. ((Allah)) said, "Seize it, and fear not: We shall return it at once to its former condition"..
22. "Now draw thy hand close to thy side: It shall come forth white (and shining), without harm (or stain),- as another Sign,-
23. "In order that We may show thee (two) of our Greater Signs.
24. "Go thou to Pharaoh, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds."

S. 27: 7-14
7. Behold! Moses said to his family: "I perceive a fire; soon will I bring you from there some information, or I will bring you a burning brand to light our fuel, that ye may warn yourselves.
8. But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard: "Blessed are those in the fire and those around: and glory to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
9. "O Moses! verily, I am Allah, the exalted in might, the wise!....
10. "Now do thou throw thy rod!" But when he saw it moving (of its own accord)as if it had been a snake, he turned back in retreat, and retraced not his steps: "O Moses!" (it was said), "Fear not: truly, in My presence, those called as apostles have no fear,-
11. "But if any have done wrong and have thereafter substituted good to take the place of evil, truly, I am Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
12. "Now put thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm): (these are) among the nine Signs (thou wilt take) to Pharaoh and his people: for they are a people rebellious in transgression."
13. But when Our Signs came to them, that should have opened their eyes, they said: "This is sorcery manifest!"
14. And they rejected those Signs in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls were convinced thereof: so see what was the end of those who acted corruptly!

S. 28: 29-33
29. Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."
30. But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground: "O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds....
31. "Now do thou throw thy rod!" but when he saw it moving (of its own accord) as if it had been a snake, he turned back in retreat, and retraced not his steps: O Moses!" (It was said), "Draw near, and fear not: for thou art of those who are secure.
32. "Move thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm), and draw thy hand close to thy side (to guard) against fear. Those are the two credentials from thy Lord to Pharaoh and his Chiefs: for truly they are a people rebellious and wicked."

[Ramisa]

Greetings,
It seems like those three accounts are told by two different views;second person and third person.Though the most effective view in these translations is the third persons view.The third person is narrating :S.27:7-14 and S.20:9-24. The other translation is in second person(second person is a narrative view from a person repeating). Insha'Allah you will now understand why one event is repeated three times. Any questions/comments please feel free to ask.

Regards.

[IsaImpliesHope]

Greetings,
It seems like those three accounts are told by two different views;second person and third person.Though the most effective view in these translations is the third persons view.The third person is narrating :S.27:7-14 and S.20:9-24. The other translation is in second person(second person is a narrative view from a person repeating). Insha'Allah you will now understand why one event is repeated three times. Any questions/comments please feel free to ask.

Regards.

Thanks Ramisa, but I'm not sure I quite follow what you're saying - in particular I don't see why three accounts are necessary to tell the story from two viewpoints. More generally, what is Allah's purpose in giving these two viewpoints?

[Woodrow]

Thanks Ramisa, but I'm not sure I quite follow what you're saying - in particular I don't see why three accounts are necessary to tell the story from two viewpoints. More generally, what is Allah's purpose in giving these two viewpoints?

Peace,

Quit an interesting question and deserving of an answer.

I will not try to answer for Sister Ramisa. Rather then answer on her behalf I will wait for after her reply before I voice my opinion.

[IsaImpliesHope]

Well Ramisa seems to have been banned from the forum (what happened?)...

[Woodrow]

Thanks Ramisa, but I'm not sure I quite follow what you're saying - in particular I don't see why three accounts are necessary to tell the story from two viewpoints. More generally, what is Allah's purpose in giving these two viewpoints?

Peace,

I doubt if I can find an explanation in either the Qur'an or the Ahadith.

But that does not mean there is no explanation. Notice the Event of the burning bush is told in separate revelations. To understand you need to take in context of the whole Surrah and see why it applies to that specific Surah 20 is a message of hope. The portion of Moses and the burning bush is written in a maaner and from the view that their is hope for Muslims. Surah 27 is basically a telling of the prophetic nature of scripture. and told fom that view.

Surah 28 seems to be told from the view of the power of Allaah(swt) and how the Jews
were lifted above their Egyptian oppressors.

[Uthman]

:salamext:

"4) As a separate issue entirely, are there any other stories in the Qur'an where a prophet speaks to Allah directly (if, indeed, Moses does in this case)?"

I believe most if not all scholars have come to the conclusion it was an Angel that spoke to Musa(as). However since the Angels have no free will and can only speak what Allaah(swt) has spoken. The correspond very much to being living tape recorders.

i do not think any scholars believe Allaah(swt) has ever spoken directly to a Prophet but always through an Angel who most scholars believe to have been Jibril (Gabrial in English)

Are you sure about that Woodrow? I've never heard it explained that way before. My understanding was always that Allah spoke directly to Musa ('alayhi-salaam) on Mount Toor and directly to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) when he went on the night journey and received the commandment for the five daily prayers (initially fifty), albeit from behind a veil.

Consider 42:51:

It is not given to any human being that Allâh should speak to him unless (it be) by Inspiration, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.

[Beardo]

Allaah says, in the story of Moosa (peace be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning): “And when Moosa came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord spoke to him, he said, ‘O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You.’ Allaah said, ‘You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain, if its stands still in its place, then you shall see Me.’ So when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He made it collapse to dust, and Moosa fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said, ‘Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers.’” [al-A’raaf 7:143].

There is a consensus (did I use the word correctly?) that it was an angel, but I believe the greater opinion is that Allah Ta'ala himself had spoken to Musa Alayhe Salaam.

[Uthman]

JazakAllahu Khayran Akhee Rashad. :)

There is a consensus (did I use the word correctly?) that it was an angel, but I believe the greater opinion is that Allah Ta'ala himself had spoken to Musa Alayhe Salaam.

You didn't use the word correctly. :D Consensus means that everybody agrees to it, which clearly isn't the case.

For example: There is consensus that Rashad is a fool. This would mean that everybody is in agreement that Rashad is a fool. Understand?

[Woodrow]

:salamext: Are you sure about that Woodrow? I've never heard it explained that way before. My understanding was always that Allah spoke directly to Musa ('alayhi-salaam) on Mount Toor and directly to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) when he went on the night journey and received the commandment for the five daily prayers (initially fifty), albeit from behind a veil.

Consider 42:51:

It is not given to any human being that Allâh should speak to him unless (it be) by Inspiration, or from behind a veil, or (that) He sends a Messenger to reveal what He wills by His Leave. Verily, He is Most High, Most Wise.

:sl:

I guess I will never be too old to learn something new. You made a good point and it should have been obvious to me. There is indication Allaah(swt) did speak directly to them (PBUT)