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onlyonetruth

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Growing up as a Christian, I have always been taught that we worship one God. However, I have heard Muslims refer to Christians as "polytheists" because we believe in the Trinity. I never considered this....

I wanted to know why Muslims consider the Trinity to be a type of polytheistic worship? From a doctrine point of view, I understand that Muslims reject the Divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, however, why does the Islamic faith consider the worship of the Trinity to be polytheism? The word "Trinity" means 3 in 1....

From a logical perspective, is it ever possible for 3 to equal 1...? Or is that simply false in all circumstances (which would seemingly suggest the notion of the Trinity is not logical, and therefore, cannot be true)?

Thank you.
 
From my conversations with Christians they will tell you that Christian scholars can't explain the Trinity.

So, is it God in 3 or from 3?

If Jesus is divine than that makes him as God. We don't compare God's characteristics to no one or a thing.

As for the Muslims who consider it polytheistic. Somehow all other religions have to partnership with God.

Idolatery is to believe that God resides in an object or a person.
 
onlyonetruth said:
From a logical perspective, is it ever possible for 3 to equal 1...? Or is that simply false in all circumstances (which would seemingly suggest the notion of the Trinity is not logical, and therefore, cannot be true)?
Click to expand...

It is clearly illogical to say 3 Gods = 1 God (as many misunderstand the doctrine of the Trinity to teach). But the doctrine of the Trinity is best represented in this form by 3 Persons = 1 God: God is a (unified) community of 3 Persons. So provided one doesn't misidentity a Person with a God, there is certainly no contradiction.
 
Salam,
I never thought it was hard to understand the trinity before when I was a Christian. For me sure it was one God using parts of Him into three parts but it's still the same. So I am a Muslim but I would never ever see Christians as polytheists even though I've heard many Muslims saying this.
 
J Aaliyah said:
Salam,
I never thought it was hard to understand the trinity before when I was a Christian. For me sure it was one God using parts of Him into three parts but it's still the same. So I am a Muslim but I would never ever see Christians as polytheists even though I've heard many Muslims saying this.
Click to expand...

But sister, since Jesus(pbuh) is a man and a separate entity from ALLAH(swt), then isn't their worship of Jesus(pbuh) considered as shirk, i.e. association with ALLAH(swt), be it in his authority of judging people, in calling upon him and making Du'aa to him.
For me sure it was one God using parts of Him into three parts but it's still the same.
Click to expand...
Secondly, when you were a chrisitian, how did you consider a son to be part of a father and THEN AGAIN one in the same??
 
J Aaliyah said:
Salam,
I never thought it was hard to understand the trinity before when I was a Christian. For me sure it was one God using parts of Him into three parts but it's still the same. So I am a Muslim but I would never ever see Christians as polytheists even though I've heard many Muslims saying this.
Click to expand...

:w:

Sis that's not correct. Those who associate partners with Allah are considered mushriks(polytheists) and Allah mentions this in the Qur'aan. We aren't speaking out of our own whims, astaghfirullah since we cannot do that.
 
Rasema said:
From my conversations with Christians they will tell you that Christian scholars can't explain the Trinity.

So, is it God in 3 or from 3?

If Jesus is divine than that makes him as God. We don't compare God's characteristics to no one or a thing.

As for the Muslims who consider it polytheistic. Somehow all other religions have to partnership with God.

Idolatery is to believe that God resides in an object or a person.
Click to expand...

No Christian scholars can explain the Trinity? Don't you find that somewhat unlikely? I can point you to some if you're interested.

Also, idolatry is more normally defined as the worship of anything other than God.
 
Thank you for offering some interesting thoughts....

J Aaliyah said:
Salam,
I never thought it was hard to understand the trinity before when I was a Christian. For me sure it was one God using parts of Him into three parts but it's still the same. So I am a Muslim but I would never ever see Christians as polytheists even though I've heard many Muslims saying this.
Click to expand...

I believe that one way to better understand God (the Creator) is to reflect on His creation... by doing this, I can think of 1 logical possibility to make the case that 3 can equal 1.

Think of a single human... we are a living example of the paradox of 3 = 1....

Mind (intellect) + Body (flesh) + Spirit (soul) = Individual

These three distinct components of our being are separate but inseparable... it's a paradox. 3 = 1... I'm not using this as "proof" one way or the other regarding the nature of God - just a thought.

Posted by IsaImpliesHope... No Christian scholars can explain the Trinity? Don't you find that somewhat unlikely? I can point you to some if you're interested.
Click to expand...

It's certainly a mystery.... I would suspect that completely understanding God's true nature is beyond human ability... from the Christian perspective, the concept of the Trinity is referred to as a "mystery" of our faith for that very reason. Another example would be the fact that God is outside time (eternal) - that too is beyond our understanding (but we except it as truth).

In regards to the divinity of Christ, it's often explained in terms of divine & human "nature" .... you are an individual person - distinct from all other humans.., however, you share a "single" nature with all the people on the planet i.e.. your "human nature". Christ was unique in that He had both a human & Divine nature (because His father was God)... so Christ is separate from the Father in one sense, however, He shares His Father's Divine nature....

*I believe Muslims except the virgin birth of Christ (correct me if I'm wrong)... in a way, one could argue that a man without a human father must have had a Divine father?
 
Yeah so, aren't u worshipping a human other than God alone? Well I know you will say no but it's a rhetorical question.
 
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IsaImpliesHope said:
No Christian scholars can explain the Trinity? Don't you find that somewhat unlikely? I can point you to some if you're interested.

Also, idolatry is more normally defined as the worship of anything other than God.
Click to expand...

Isn't the trinity a "mystery"? Or have you cracked the code?
 
Thank you for offering some interesting thoughts....



I believe that one way to better understand God (the Creator) is to reflect on His creation... by doing this, I can think of 1 logical possibility to make the case that 3 can equal 1.
Click to expand...

Let's see.

Think of a single human... we are a living example of the paradox of 3 = 1....

Mind (intellect) + Body (flesh) + Spirit (soul) = Individual

These three distinct components of our being are separate but inseparable... it's a paradox. 3 = 1... I'm not using this as "proof" one way or the other regarding the nature of God - just a thought.
Click to expand...

And it's just as well that you're not using it as a proof since it contradicts the tenets of Christianity anyway. Those three parts are distinct and different entities which are more or less independent of each other. As far as I remember, Christians assert that for example Jesus and the Father are of the same substance which obviously doesn't apply to any of the above. There's more but that's off the top of my head.

Apart from the idea that only these 3 components make up a human which we'd only have to take your word for, the Trinity wants us to believe that each part of those three is the same as each other but distinct, which is totally contradictory to itself and to your equation.


It's certainly a mystery.... I would suspect that completely understanding God's true nature is beyond human ability... from the Christian perspective, the concept of the Trinity is referred to as a "mystery" of our faith for that very reason. Another example would be the fact that God is outside time (eternal) - that too is beyond our understanding (but we except it as truth).
Click to expand...

If it is a mystery, why would you try to explain it with your equation up there? From the Islamic perspective, the only reason you call it a "mystery" is because you recognize yourself that it doesn't make sense and is contradictory.

If you say it does make sense... well then it wouldn't be a "mystery" would it?

In regards to the divinity of Christ, it's often explained in terms of divine & human "nature" .... you are an individual person - distinct from all other humans.., however, you share a "single" nature with all the people on the planet i.e.. your "human nature". Christ was unique in that He had both a human & Divine nature (because His father was God)... so Christ is separate from the Father in one sense, however, He shares His Father's Divine nature....
Click to expand...

To be honest it sounds exactly like polytheism to me. Christ is made of "god material" but is separate from him. This necessarily means he is a separate entity.
*I believe Muslims except the virgin birth of Christ (correct me if I'm wrong)... in a way, one could argue that a man without a human father must have had a Divine father?
Click to expand...

Well obviously a man without a human father is directly created by Allah. But Christ's birth pales in comparison to Adam's who was created from nothing at all. No virgin mother necessary.
 
Salaam/Peace

onlyonetruth said:
..The word "Trinity" means 3 in 1....
Click to expand...

Muslims believe God can not be devided in to 3 . God is one without other partner / diety .

We can't say that God can become His own creation . Our Creator is immortal and can not born or die . These are the characteristics of creations - God Almighty is above all these .

Hindus also believe in Trinity . To my knowledge , they believe one diety has power to create , one is the sustainer , other is responsible for death . Like Christitans , they also believe , God can come in to this world as human being etc. These kind of beliefs are considered as shirk / blasphemy in Islam - the most major sin .

Jesus and Muhammed (peace be upon them ) are humble servants and blessed Prophets of God . Gabriel / Jibril (bbuh) is an Angel - no is considered as God or equal to God in Islam .
 
I did not mean for this to turn into a heated debate or a negative thread :hmm:

AntiKarateKid said:
If it is a mystery, why would you try to explain it with your equation up there? From the Islamic perspective, the only reason you call it a "mystery" is because you recognize yourself that it doesn't make sense and is contradictory.
Click to expand...

This is an example of someone not reading what I am saying. My "equation" was not an attempt to explain the the nature of God (I believe I even said that). It was simply a creative "Earthly" example of how we can see evidence in creation of 3 components acting in unity... it was"food for thought" - nothing more.

The Trinity is a mystery, and therefore cannot be fully explained... many people do not like doctrine that cannot be fully explained. "Mystery" is part of religion... accepting the teachings of any religion takes an element of faith.

In short, to reject the Trinity based on the fact that you cannot comprehend it would not be logical... who here can fully comprehend the nature of God? If God says "I am one with my Son," who would we be to say "no, that's not possible because I don't fully understand it?"

On the other hand, if you don't except the Trinity because you don't believe scripture supports it, that is a different issue... and in my opinion, a much more reasonable objection.
 
Salam,
I am not discussing this subject because everytime I do my Muslim brothers and sisters seem to misunderstand me. I am a Muslim, but when I was a Christian it wasn't hard for me to understand the trinity, the trinity wasn't the reason I converted which I know many other converts have had as one reason. So I can't understand when Muslims say it doesn't make sense, because God can do everything. But for now, I simply don't believe in it. If He wants to divide himself in three then we shouldn't argue about how it is done, but now in Islam and in my way of faith He isn't divided. As simple as that.
 
AntiKarateKid said:
Isn't the trinity a "mystery"? Or have you cracked the code?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by the Trinity being a mystery? Do you mean that the Trinity (God Himself) is incomprensible, or the doctrine of the Trinity is incomprehensible?

AntiKarateKid said:
Listen to yourself. Of course it's polytheistic. A community of partners? Whatever happened to one indivisible God?!
Click to expand...

I don't recall God ever claiming to be indivisible...certainly not within the documents Christians claim to be authoritative. Unless you are limiting the definition of God?
 
onlyonetruth said:
Growing up as a Christian, I have always been taught that we worship one God. However, I have heard Muslims refer to Christians as "polytheists" because we believe in the Trinity. I never considered this....

I wanted to know why Muslims consider the Trinity to be a type of polytheistic worship? From a doctrine point of view, I understand that Muslims reject the Divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, however, why does the Islamic faith consider the worship of the Trinity to be polytheism? The word "Trinity" means 3 in 1....

From a logical perspective, is it ever possible for 3 to equal 1...? Or is that simply false in all circumstances (which would seemingly suggest the notion of the Trinity is not logical, and therefore, cannot be true)?

Thank you.
Click to expand...


Greetings,

polytheism = Belief in multiple Gods

If God is a God, the holy spirit is also a God, Jesus is also a God, each one of them a different entity, then that equals to polytheism.
trinity is illogical that is true, but it isn't the only reason one rejects Christianity.. It is counter intuitive on multiple levels... I don't care to go into any more details of why Christianity doesn't fit the concept of 'one God' during the holy month of Ramadan.



all the best
 
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AntiKarateKid said:
Apart from the idea that only these 3 components make up a human which we'd only have to take your word for, the Trinity wants us to believe that each part of those three is the same as each other but distinct*, which is totally contradictory to itself and to your equation.

...

To be honest it sounds exactly like polytheism to me. Christ is made of "god material" but is separate from him**. This necessarily means he is a separate entity.
Click to expand...

*This is not the what the doctrine teaches - the three Persons are distinct.

**Again, a misrepresentation of the doctrine - you are confusing the terms "distinct" and "separate". The three Persons are distinct, but not separate (separate, in Christian theology, means "divided").
 
God is indivisible according to ISlam...

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ {1}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 112:1] Say: He is Allah, the One![/SIZE]
اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ {2}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 112:2] Allah, the eternally Besought of all![/SIZE]
لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ {3}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 112:3] He begetteth not nor was begotten.[/SIZE]
وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ {4}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 112:4] And there is none comparable unto Him.[/SIZE]

*****

the term Ahad as opposed to wahid is used in the first verse.. wahid means one, ahad means indivisible through the translation says one I suspect Marmaduke just didn't see how significant the difference is between wahid and ahad... anything outside of that falls outside the confines of strict monotheism!

all the best
 

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