Question:Slaves whom their right hands posses

[TrueStranger]

:sl:

The Quran orders women are to cover in front of everyone except for the following:

...their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sisters sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands posses, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex...(24:31)

My question is, what if "the slaves whom their right hands posses" are men who are not free of physical needs, are the Muslim women not supposed to wear the hijab in front of these male slaves?

Thanks

:wa:

[Muhaba]

From Tafheem-ul-Quraan Commentary by Saeed Abu Al Ala Maududi:

There is a good deal of difference of opinion among the jurists about the correct meaning of this injunction. One group holds that this refers only to the slave girls owned by a lady. Accordingly they interpret the Divine Command to mean that the Muslim woman can display her adornment before a slave girl, whether she is an idolatress or a Jew or a Christian, but she cannot appear before a slave man even if he is legally owned by her; for purposes of purdah, he is to be treated just like a free male stranger. This is the view of Abdullah bin Masud, Mujahid, Hasan Basri, Ibn Sirin, Sa’id bin Musayyab, Ta’us and Imam Abu Hanifah, and a saying of Imam Shafi’i also supports this. They argue that a slave is not a mahram to the lady; if he is freed, he can marry his former owner. Therefore the mere fact of his being a slave cannot by itself entitle him to be treated like the male mahrams and allow the lady to appear freely before him. The question, why should the words “those in their possession” which are general and applicable to both slaves and slave girls, be restricted to mean only slave girls, is answered by there jurist like this: though the words are general, the context and background in which they occur make them specifically applicable to slave girls only. The words “those in their possession” therefore used to clarify that a woman could display her adornments before the slave girls as before her free female associates.

The other group holds that the words “those in their possession” include both the slaves and the slave girls. This is the view of Hadrat Aisha, Umm Salamah, and some learned scholars of the house of the Holy Prophet (SAW) and also of Imam Shafi’i. They do not argue merely on the basis of the general meaning of the words, but they also cite precedents from the Sunnah in support of their view. For instance, the incident that the Holy Prophet (SAW) went to the house of his daughter, Fatima, along with his slave Abdullah bin Musa’dah Al Fazari. She was at that time wearing a sheet which would leave the feet exposed if she tried to cover the head, and the head exposed if she tried to cover the feet. The Holy Prophet (SAW) felt her embarrassment and said: “No harm; there are only your father and your slave!” (Abu Da’ud, Ahmad, Baihaqi on the authority of Anas bin Malik.) Ibn Asakir has stated that the Holy Prophet (SAW) had given that slave to Hadrat Fatima, who brought him up and then freed him. (But the man turned out to be an ungrateful wretch; in the battle of Siffin, he was the bitterest opponent of Hadrat Ali and a zealous supported of Amir Mu’awiyah.) They also quote the following words of the Holy Prophet (SAW) in support of their stand: “When any of you agrees to a deed of emancipation with her slave, and the slave has the necessary means to buy his freedom, she (the owner) should observe purdah from him.” (Abu Da’ud, Tirmizi, Ibn Majah on the authority of Umm Salamah.)

[TrueStranger]

Salaam Aliakum

Jazak'Allah Khair muhaba that helped.


I think the view of the second group makes more sense. First, it's the view of the wives of the Prophet Mohamed (Peace Be Upon Him) and they stated some hadiths as evidence. Secondly, the Quran already states that Muslim women don't have to cover before other women. It doesn't matter if they are Muslims, non-Muslims or slaves. So why would "those whom their right hands posses" mean only slave-women.

Jaza'Allah Khair.

[Sampharo]

Salaam Aliakum

Secondly, the Quran already states that Muslim women don't have to cover before other women. It doesn't matter if they are Muslims, non-Muslims or slaves.

That's not accurate brother. Muslim women should not uncover before non-muslim women. The prophet -pbuh- ordered muslim women to treat non-muslim women as men and to cover up in front of them. The reason was that a non-muslim woman will not have the Islamic requirement of guarding the chastity of other women even by mention, and at that time the non-muslim woman left I think Aisha or Asmaa and told her husband about her shoulder mark and whatnot.

But the Quranic verse was focused on men anyway (fathers, brothers, brothers in law etc.) so it's obvious that the slaves of thy right hand refers to men slaves, and the proof and daleel is stronger with that opinion.

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[Rabi'ya]

That's not accurate brother. Muslim women should not uncover before non-muslim women. The prophet -pbuh- ordered muslim women to treat non-muslim women as men and to cover up in front of them. The reason was that a non-muslim woman will not have the Islamic requirement of guarding the chastity of other women even by mention, and at that time the non-muslim woman left I think Aisha or Asmaa and told her husband about her shoulder mark and whatnot.

But the Quranic verse was focused on men anyway (fathers, brothers, brothers in law etc.) so it's obvious that the slaves of thy right hand refers to men slaves, and the proof and daleel is stronger with that opinion.

:sl:

Would you be able to provide a reference for this. I have never heard this before, however, I have heard that when uncovering in front of non-Muslim women one should be cautious.

jazakAllah kheir

[Sampharo]

:sl:

Would you be able to provide a reference for this. I have never heard this before, however, I have heard that when uncovering in front of non-Muslim women one should be cautious.

jazakAllah kheir

Several sources, can find most in this extract from interpretation of this verse [24:31] in Ibn Kathir:

وقوله: {أو نسائهن} يعني تظهر بزينتها أيضاً للنساء المسلمات، دون نساء أهل الذمة، لئلا تصفهن لرجالهن، فإنهن لا يمنعهن من ذلك مانع؛ فأما المسلمة فإنها تعلم أن ذلك حرام فتنزجر عنه، وقد قال رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وسلم: (لا تباشر المرأة المرأة تنعتها لزوجها كأنه ينظر إليها) ""أخرجاه في الصحيحين عن ابن مسعود مرفوعاً"".
وروي أن عمر بن الخطاب كتب إلى أبي عبيدة: أما بعد، فإنه بلغني أن نساء من نساء المسلمين يدخلن الحمامات مع نساء أهل الشرك، فإنه من قبلك فلا يحل لأمرأة تؤمن باللّه واليوم الآخر أن ينظر إلى عورتها إلا أهل ملتها، وقال مجاهد في قوله: {أو نسائهن} قال: نساؤهن المسلمات، ليس المشركات من نسائهن، وليس للمرأة المسلمة أن تنكشف بين يدي مشركة، وروي عن ابن عباس {أو نسائهن} قال: هَنُ المسلمات لا تبديه ليهودية ولا نصرانية، وهو النحر والقرط والوشاح وما لا يحل أن يراه إلا محرم، وروى سعيد عن مجاهد قال: لا تضع المسلمة خمارها عند مشركة لأن اللّه تعالى يقول: {أو نسائهن} فليست من نسائهن، وعن مكحول وعبادة بن نسي: أنهما كرها أن تقبل النصرانية واليهودية والمجوسية المسلمة.

Short translation: "The text {Or their women} means muslim women, not those of the book, so as not to describe them to their men since they do not have a barrier, while a muslim woman know it is forbidden and will not do it (The saying of the prophet -pbuh-: No woman should decribe another woman to her husband as if he sees her. Sahih Moslem and Bukhary narrated by Ibn Masood). Omar Ibn El-Khattab has written to Abu Omaida: It has reached me that muslim women have been sharing public baths with non-muslim women, know that from before you no woman who believes in God and judgement day should allow her privacy to be seen by any other than her fellow muslim women. ........ Ibn Abbas says: {Or their women} refered to muslim, not others....."

[Muezzin]

Thread moved from General forum to Clarifications about Islam forum.

[TrueStranger]

Several sources, can find most in this extract from interpretation of this verse [24:31] in Ibn Kathir:

وقوله: {أو نسائهن} يعني تظهر بزينتها أيضاً للنساء المسلمات، دون نساء أهل الذمة، لئلا تصفهن لرجالهن، فإنهن لا يمنعهن من ذلك مانع؛ فأما المسلمة فإنها تعلم أن ذلك حرام فتنزجر عنه، وقد قال رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وسلم: (لا تباشر المرأة المرأة تنعتها لزوجها كأنه ينظر إليها) ""أخرجاه في الصحيحين عن ابن مسعود مرفوعاً"".
وروي أن عمر بن الخطاب كتب إلى أبي عبيدة: أما بعد، فإنه بلغني أن نساء من نساء المسلمين يدخلن الحمامات مع نساء أهل الشرك، فإنه من قبلك فلا يحل لأمرأة تؤمن باللّه واليوم الآخر أن ينظر إلى عورتها إلا أهل ملتها، وقال مجاهد في قوله: {أو نسائهن} قال: نساؤهن المسلمات، ليس المشركات من نسائهن، وليس للمرأة المسلمة أن تنكشف بين يدي مشركة، وروي عن ابن عباس {أو نسائهن} قال: هَنُ المسلمات لا تبديه ليهودية ولا نصرانية، وهو النحر والقرط والوشاح وما لا يحل أن يراه إلا محرم، وروى سعيد عن مجاهد قال: لا تضع المسلمة خمارها عند مشركة لأن اللّه تعالى يقول: {أو نسائهن} فليست من نسائهن، وعن مكحول وعبادة بن نسي: أنهما كرها أن تقبل النصرانية واليهودية والمجوسية المسلمة.

Short translation: "The text {Or their women} means muslim women, not those of the book, so as not to describe them to their men since they do not have a barrier, while a muslim woman know it is forbidden and will not do it (The saying of the prophet -pbuh-: No woman should decribe another woman to her husband as if he sees her. Sahih Moslem and Bukhary narrated by Ibn Masood). Omar Ibn El-Khattab has written to Abu Omaida: It has reached me that muslim women have been sharing public baths with non-muslim women, know that from before you no woman who believes in God and judgement day should allow her privacy to be seen by any other than her fellow muslim women. ........ Ibn Abbas says: {Or their women} refered to muslim, not others....."

Thanks bro. I didn't know that. But I think that some Muslim men also share public baths with non-Muslim men, is that haraam?

[Sampharo]

Thanks bro. I didn't know that. But I think that some Muslim men also share public baths with non-Muslim men, is that haraam?

Muslim men do not share the "Awra" or privacy saved for the ladies. A man can show all his body in front of men or women with the exception of from his navel to his knees. So since there is no difference in Awra status between what a man can show to women and other men, there is no problem in showing that to non-muslim men.

What "lenient" muslim men do today of getting in communal showers without caring about ANY part of their body including their genitalia is of course wrong and forbidden.

Barakallahu feekom