PDA

View Full Version : Women and Graveyard



AnonymousPoster
09-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I have been having several arguments with a friend of mine who thinks it is ok for a women to go to a cemetory. I have always been told that women are strictly forbidden.

Please can you advise.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Sampharo
09-10-2009, 01:23 PM
A woman should visit the graveyard only once, when it's her funeral.

However you need to understand who you're talking to and what is the essence of "ok". If they're moderate Arabs of Levant countries or Egypt, you'll hear a mouthful if you say women shouldn't go to graveyards. It's traditional to them and in Egypt they still use Pharonic style tombs to bury the family together in open rooms. Unislamic but won't get you anywhere arguing. Just repeat to them in gentle manner that it is Islamic to bury the right way and for women not to go to the graveyard.
Reply

AnonymousPoster
09-10-2009, 01:27 PM
Can someone please back this up from a Haidith or Quran. My friend says its a whole lot of malaki that they can see women naked?
Reply

TrueStranger
09-10-2009, 01:28 PM
What is the reason for women not being allowed to go to graveyards? So I can't visit my parent's graveyard?
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
AnonymousPoster
09-10-2009, 01:30 PM
It is forbidden for a women to go to a graveyard thats the rules. Now i need it to be backed up someone......
Reply

- IqRa -
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Not it's not forbidden

There are 2 opinions on this

Wait...
Reply

- IqRa -
09-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Islam does not place any restriction against women visiting graves and graveyards except that they must not wail and cry aloud when they are there. The Prophet originally told women not to visit graveyards, but towards the end of his life, he said to them: “I had told you not to visit graves; now I am telling you to visit them.” The reason was that Arab women used to wail at graves. The Prophet wanted this practice to be stopped. Therefore, he banned women from visiting graves to start with. After sometime, when Muslim women were better aware of how Islam wants them to behave in different situations, he allowed them such visits. In fact, the Prophet encourages visiting graveyards because such a visit reminds the visitor of his or her own death and the fact that they would have to stand in front of God when their actions are reckoned to determine their reward or punishment. Scholars like Ibn Qudamah, of the Hanbali school of law, make it clear that since this is the purpose of visiting graveyards, both men and women need such visits. Muslims, however, often deny women their rights under all sorts of pretexts.

These are un-Islamic. One such example is that which the reader’s wife has been told, claiming that she is seen naked by the dead. This is most absurd. The dead cannot see their visitors. How can they, when they have no eyesight, and no vision whatsoever? It is all a superstition. Having said that, I may add that the reader’s wife can always pray for her father and son, without having to go to the graveyard. Whatever she prays God for them, from any place, will be accepted, God willing.

Source
Reply

- IqRa -
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Also...

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and Blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Fuqaha (Jurists) differed concerning “women’s visit to graves”.

The correct opinion is that it is permissible with some conditions. The evidence is a Hadith; Imam Muslim narrated it. Buraidah ( may Allaah be pleased with him) reported from Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), he said:” I forbade you to visit graves, but you may now visit them, for that is a reminder of the Hereafter”. The woman also needs to be reminded the death just as the man.

The Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Women are the second half of men”.

The Hadith: “May Allah curse those women who frequently visit the graves, and those who kindle lamps on them” shows that the curse of Allah will be upon those women who frequently visit graves, or those women who have lack of patience or those who mourn.

Reported Abu Saeed Al-Khudri, the Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “I forbade you to visit graves, now you can visit them. Indeed, the graves visit teaches lessons, and do not tell any thing which is disliked in Islam”.

In short, women can visit graves on condition that there should not be any act against Islam, i.e., crying, mourning, lamentation, Shamelessness etc. In addition to that, the visit should be occasionally. She should also be accompanied by a Mahram . Allah knows best.

Source
Reply

AnonymousPoster
09-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Jazakallah T I A
Reply

Cabdullahi
09-10-2009, 01:52 PM
just like usual TIA is in good form
thanks for clearing it up
Reply

Sampharo
09-10-2009, 01:55 PM
Brother T.I.A.

The consensus of scholars agree on women being forbidden from visiting the graves. The hadith mentioned to be specific to women has no authentication to support it.

"Ruling on women visiting graves
My aunt’s father died and she visited his grave once. She wants to visit it again, but she has heard a hadeeth which means that women are forbidden to visit graves. Is this hadeeth saheeh, and if it is saheeh, is she guilty of a sin for which kafaarah (expiation) is required?

Praise be to Allaah.
The correct view is that it is not allowed for women to visit graves, because of the hadeeth mentioned. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed women who visit graves. Women should stop visiting graves. The woman who visited a grave out of ignorance (of this ruling) is not to blame, but she should not do it again. If she does so, she has to repent and seek forgiveness, and repentance cancels out whatever came before. Visiting graves is only for men. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Visit graves, for they will remind you of the Hereafter.” At the beginning of Islam, visiting graves was not allowed for men and women alike, because the Muslims were new in Islam and came from a background where grave-worship and attachment to the dead were widespread. So they were forbidden to visit graves as a preventative measure, to avoid evil and prevent shirk. But once Islam was well-established and they understood Islam, Allaah prescribed visiting the graves because of the lessons and reminders of death and the Hereafter involved in that, and so that they could make du’aa’ for the deceased and pray for mercy for them. Then Allaah forbade woman to do that – according to the most correct of the two scholarly opinions – because they may present a temptation to men and even to themselves, and because they have little patience and they get too upset. So by His mercy and kindness towards them, Allaah forbade them to visit graves. This is also a form of kindness towards the men, because if they were all to gather at the grave, this might cause fitnah. So by His mercy, Allaah forbade women to visit graves.
But with regard to the prayer (women praying the funeral prayer), there is nothing wrong with that. Women may join the funeral prayer. The prohibition applies only to visiting the graves. Women should not visit graves according to the more correct of the two scholarly opinions, because of the ahaadeeth which indicate that that is forbidden. She does not have to offer any kafaarah, all she has to do is repent.


From Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 9, p. 282"

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/8198/women%20graves



Reply

glo
09-10-2009, 02:04 PM
T.I.A has quoted a fatwa which states that Muhammed initially forbid women to visit graves, but later in life allowed them to; therefore women are allowed to visit graves.

Sampharo has quoted a fatwa stating that women are not allowed to visit graves.

How do you decide which fatwa to follow in this matter, if different fatwas give different rulings?
Reply

Muslim Woman
09-10-2009, 02:13 PM
:sl:

I regularly go to graveyard ( once a week at least ) . I love to recite Sura Rahaman and other suras beside the grave of my father and grand ma.

To my best of knowledge , it is allowed. There is no verse in Quran that forbids women to go to graveyard.
Reply

Muslim Woman
09-10-2009, 02:18 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by AnonymousGender
My friend says its a whole lot of malaki that they can see women naked?
Is it only if they visit grave or always ?? Can u ask your friend to mention the verse from Quran or show hadith ?
Reply

Muslim Woman
09-10-2009, 02:28 PM
Salaam/Peace

Originally Posted by glo
..How do you decide which fatwa to follow in this matter, if different fatwas give different rulings?
After reading anyone's opinion , I first check what Quran says about it . Then Hadith. As there is no bar in Quran against women's going to graveyard , I will go with the hadith that allows us :statisfie

There is a hadith that says : «When the [Muslim] offspring of Adam dies, [the rewards of] his deeds stop except for three: a charity resulting in a continuing benefit, knowledge benefiting others, and a pious offspring making supplication to Allah for him.»

I like to make dua/ supplication for dad after reciting from holy Quran beside his grave . God Willing , it will be accepted and God Knows Best.
Reply

- IqRa -
09-10-2009, 02:32 PM
There are 2 different opinions. You can choose which one to follow.
Reply

glo
09-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
There are 2 different opinions. You can choose which one to follow.
It's up to personal conviction and choice?
Thank you for clarifying.
Reply

- IqRa -
09-10-2009, 02:41 PM
No no no, that is my opinion. I think you have to look at which evidences and hadiths are stronger, and more solid. My above comment was at the thread starter.
Reply

Sampharo
09-10-2009, 02:49 PM
Sisters,

The scholars that have favoured the view I mentioned, of them Ibn Abbas, Ibn Al-Qayyem, Ibn Abdul Wahhab, Ibn Taymeyya, Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaiman, Shanqeetee, Al-Monajjed, and many other great names. On the other hand Sheikhs like Al-Albani and others feel it is permissible.

Some Sheikhs who who think it is permissible use Sunnah evidence that speak of the prophet seeing a woman crying at a grave and he told her off crying, but did not tell her off being there.

The hadith brother T.I.A. mentioned was regarding men, not women, because everyone was forbidden from visiting graves, and later it was allowed, but the forbiddence remained for the women. Hadith of sister Muslim Woman refers to praying and supplicating for the dead person, which is not necessarily done AT the grave.

Permissibility was actually based a different source which is Aisha's hadith that she went to visit her brother's grave, which was authenticated by Al-Hakem. Al-Idreesi and as I mentioned great Sheikh Al-Albani believe so as well.

My opinion goes to be with the majority of scholars who say it is not permissible because the hadith of impermissibility is authentic and is a straightforward cursing of those who commit the act. I wouldn't take such a chance.
Reply

MSalman
09-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by T.I.A
No no no, that is my opinion. I think you have to look at which evidences and hadiths are stronger, and more solid. My above comment was at the thread starter.
and how do we do that when we do not have the tools to check this? We ask the people of knowledge and if they give us two different fatawas then we take from the one who is better than the other one in knowledge and piety. At the end of the day it kinds of come down to how our hearts feels about it and our tarjeeh could be based on the fact that we feel that one mufti presented stronger evidence or arguments.

@Sampharo
the issue of majority and minority are not much relevant to awam because there could be the case that minority opinion has stronger evidence but due to our lack of ilm we do not know. So saying that the majority opinion says this; therefore, we should accept it is not the right way to go about.

sometime it could be the case that one opinion is completely invalid; therefore, we need to be careful to whom we refer to when asking questions. and remain open minded, insha'Allah

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/Peace

After reading anyone's opinion , I first check what Quran says about it . Then Hadith. As there is no bar in Quran against women's going to graveyard , I will go with the hadith that allows us :statisfie

There is a hadith that says : «When the [Muslim] offspring of Adam dies, [the rewards of] his deeds stop except for three: a charity resulting in a continuing benefit, knowledge benefiting others, and a pious offspring making supplication to Allah for him.»

I like to make dua/ supplication for dad after reciting from holy Quran beside his grave . God Willing , it will be accepted and God Knows Best.
:wa:

sister, may Allah preserve you, it is not the job of awam (laypeople/common folks), like ourselves, to check fatwas with the Qur'an or hadith or try to understand them at their face value because we do not have the tools to do this. The Qur'an tells us to ask the people of knowledge, those who are known for knowledge and piety, and that is all we have to do.

How do you know that this hadith is not abrogated or is the only hadith on this issue and not further explained by other ahadith etc.?

and by Allah know that it is bid'ah to recite the Qur'an beside graves.

Allahu A'lam

Originally Posted by glo
How do you decide which fatwa to follow in this matter, if different fatwas give different rulings?
please see above
Reply

Muslim Woman
09-10-2009, 03:29 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by islamiclife

...sister, may Allah preserve you, it is not the job of awam (laypeople/common folks), like ourselves, to check fatwas with the Qur'an or hadith
Why not ? We must not blindly follow any scholar . They are human being and can make mistake . So , why not check with Quran ?

it is bid'ah to recite the Qur'an beside graves.
Is it allowed to recite Quran from memory ?
Reply

MSalman
09-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:

Why not ? We must not blindly follow any scholar . They are human being and can make mistake . So , why not check with Quran ?
:wa:

sister, I am not saying that scholars cannot make mistakes or we should follow their mistakes. But here is crux of the matter: we do not know whether he really made a mistake because we lack ilm. How do we know that we are understanding the ayah or the hadith correctly which seems to be contradictory to a scholar's fatawa? Do we have the knowledge of naskh and mansukh and the whole science of usul al-fiqh? The only way we will find out that a scholar is wrong is via another scholar. The scholars do not invent opinions from nothing, it is based upon the shari' text. As long as you ask those who are trust worthy, do not give random weak/odd/shadd fataws, and known for knowledge and piety; we have done our job and there won't be need for any verification with the Qur'an or the ahadith, insha'Allah

HOWEVER, one could say: "I choose this fatawa or I am making tarjeeh between two fatawas because it appeared to me that this fatawa has more proof or more evidence was presented in its support". But it is wrong to say: "the fatawa I chose has more evidence" or "I chose this fatawa because it follows/closer to the Qur'an and the sunnah". And you cannot go around force your personal tarjeeh upon others given that the difference is valid or promote as if it is the only opinion or say the fatawa I chose has more evidence.

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Is it allowed to recite Quran from memory ?
no, it is bid'ah to recite the Qur'an beside a dead person's grave whether from memory or from a mushaf. Please refer to,

Ruling on reading Qur’aan at the graveside and putting roses and fragrant herbs on the grave
Reading Qur’aan at the grave
Ruling on reading Qur’aan over the grave of a dead person

and Allah knows best
Reply

Sampharo
09-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Why not ? We must not blindly follow any scholar . They are human being and can make mistake . So , why not check with Quran ?
That is true sister, you must not follow any scholar directly. What IslamicLife meant was that direct interpretation from the Quran and Hadith is misleading and you can make many mistakes about underlying rules, matters of abrogation, hidden exceptions, many things that scholars are aware of that you may not be, so it is important to always take from secondary sources, as in a scholar who analyzed, and you seek a scholar who is pious and well-known for his accuracy and effort in reaching the truth.

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Is it allowed to recite Quran from memory ?
You may read from memory from your home, especially Surat Yaseen is very good for dead people, however it was not a sunnah to do that at the grave, so read it from home. If you choose to visit the grave based on permissibility, you still shouldn't read the Quran there.

Originally Posted by islamiclife
@Sampharo
the issue of majority and minority are not much relevant to awam because there could be the case that minority opinion has stronger evidence but due to our lack of ilm we do not know. So saying that the majority opinion says this; therefore, we should accept it is not the right way to go about.
Barak Allahu Feek brother Islamiclife,

You are correct in a BIT of a sense that majority and minority are not much relevant. They are in general relevent when it is a LARGE majority, as you may be aware there is the rule of shozuz and tafarrud and shohra all referring to giving majority opinion a weight (as long as both have daleel of course).

In this specific case I mentioned that I am with the majority opinion as a way of description, not reasoning. As I explained I believe in this opinion because it has the stronger authenticated hadith where the prophet said women will be cursed if they do visit. The daleel of the opposite opinion is an authenticated hadith of Aisha's actions, which to scholars as you may know companion actions when in conflict with prophet's statements are to be given secondary status. The hadith mentioned by T.I.A. referred to the order of visiting graves after it was originally banned fully on everyone until the the relevation of its permissibility, it did not refer to women neither in word nor implication so it cannot be used to counter a specific hadith.

God of course knows best
Reply

MSalman
09-10-2009, 06:02 PM
jazak Allah khayran for clarifying it akhee al-kareem
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-26-2012, 05:45 PM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-01-2007, 01:31 AM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-01-2006, 11:16 AM
  4. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-07-2006, 10:00 PM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | International Institute of Entrepreneurship and Professional Development - IIEPD | Truly Halal Humour

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!