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languagemaniac
09-30-2009, 09:12 PM
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and pay Zakat, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.


why are establishing prayers and paying zekat obliged to do whereas in one of the verses is said:there is no compulsion in religion?
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languagemaniac
10-01-2009, 09:15 PM
any LOGICAL answer?
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_ALI_
10-02-2009, 05:51 PM
Salam languagemaniac
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and pay Zakat, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.


why are establishing prayers and paying zekat obliged to do whereas in one of the verses is said:there is no compulsion in religion?
It is one of the most out-of-context quoted verse of the Quran. I have a feeling that you might have just read it from an anti Islamic website and not directly from the Quran. I may be wrong but I don't think I am because the next verse (verse 6) clears it up. But anyway, I'll give you the context of these verses. The Muslims and the pagans of Makkah had a peace agreement which was unilaterally broken by the pagans of Makkah. They killed some unarmed Muslims. Allah is saying here that this is a declaration of war. When you find these pagans of Makkah, you'll have to kill them in the battlefield. Allah was not telling the Muslims to force Islam on the pagans. He was merely telling them to retaliate against those who broke the peace treaty. Isn't that justified? Now normally the war should continue until the hostile pagans are finished. But Allah has given them an option that if they become Muslims, they won't be harmed. That is what is given in this verse.

009.005 فَإِذَا انْسَلَخَ الأشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدْتُمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِنْ تَابُوا وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّوا سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ
009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

So what about the pagans who don't want to fight and they don't want to accept Islam. They only want peace. The next verse tells us what to do with them.

009.006 وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لا يَعْلَمُونَ
009.006 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
Al-Qur'an, 009.005-006 (At-Tawba [Repentance, Dispensation])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Molana Maududi tells us the explanation of this verse.
That is, "lf during a fight, an enemy makes a request that he should be given an opportunity to understand Islam, the Muslims should give him a surety of protection and allow him to visit them. They should then present Islam before him in order to make him understand it. If, after this, he dces not embrace Islam, they should convey him safely to his place" . Such a person who comes to Dar-ul-Islam under the above mentioned protection is called musta'min in the Islamic Code.
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=9
So as Allah says in the QUran
002.256 لا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى لا انْفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
002.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Al-Qur'an, 002.256 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
I urge you to read the Quran in context.
Peace
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languagemaniac
10-02-2009, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by _ALI_
Salam languagemaniac

It is one of the most out-of-context quoted verse of the Quran. I have a feeling that you might have just read it from an anti Islamic website and not directly from the Quran. I may be wrong but I don't think I am because the next verse (verse 6) clears it up. But anyway, I'll give you the context of these verses. The Muslims and the pagans of Makkah had a peace agreement which was unilaterally broken by the pagans of Makkah. They killed some unarmed Muslims. Allah is saying here that this is a declaration of war. When you find these pagans of Makkah, you'll have to kill them in the battlefield. Allah was not telling the Muslims to force Islam on the pagans. He was merely telling them to retaliate against those who broke the peace treaty. Isn't that justified? Now normally the war should continue until the hostile pagans are finished. But Allah has given them an option that if they become Muslims, they won't be harmed. That is what is given in this verse.

009.005 فَإِذَا انْسَلَخَ الأشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدْتُمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِنْ تَابُوا وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلاةَ وَآتَوُا الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّوا سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ
009.005 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

So what about the pagans who don't want to fight and they don't want to accept Islam. They only want peace. The next verse tells us what to do with them.

009.006 وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لا يَعْلَمُونَ
009.006 If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
Al-Qur'an, 009.005-006 (At-Tawba [Repentance, Dispensation])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Molana Maududi tells us the explanation of this verse.
That is, "lf during a fight, an enemy makes a request that he should be given an opportunity to understand Islam, the Muslims should give him a surety of protection and allow him to visit them. They should then present Islam before him in order to make him understand it. If, after this, he dces not embrace Islam, they should convey him safely to his place" . Such a person who comes to Dar-ul-Islam under the above mentioned protection is called musta'min in the Islamic Code.
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=9
So as Allah says in the QUran
002.256 لا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى لا انْفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
002.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Al-Qur'an, 002.256 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
I urge you to read the Quran in context.
Peace
I think you couldnt understand what I mean. I read the whole of the quran, not from an anti islamic website. ı m not a stupid person and always questioning what ı read and hear.

as for the verse, it doesnt make difference if we include the verse 6 of suratul repentance( et-tevbe)

why do you compel establishing prayers and zekah if there is no compulsion in this religion? I want to find a logical anwser for this.
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Sampharo
10-03-2009, 06:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by languagemaniac
why do you compel establishing prayers and zekah if there is no compulsion in this religion? I want to find a logical anwser for this.
You don't seem like you want to find any logical answer, and I think many here see that and won't bother explaining something so obvious, but here goes. The crimes and war were already commited and fighting and killing the infidels became an allowance after what they did. The verse is not saying fight them SO AS TO FORCE THEM TO establish prayer and Zakah, it says fight them, but if you find some people who regreted what they did and reverted to Islam, and the sign of their sincerity is establishing prayer and paying zaka, then spare them as they cannot be fought or punished or killed anymore. On the appearance they are muslims, if they were still lying they will be dealt with by God. This is based on the Islamic laws and principles that state human authority can only be on outward behaviour. Inner apostacy for example that is not publicised is not punishable, adultery that is not witnessed or confessed is not punishable. So if someone repents from fighting and reverts to Islam even if at sword point and obvious to be a rue to avoid being killed or jailed after losing in battle, they cannot be punished.

In general if you will jump on the direct translation of the Holy Quran and interpret with your own unlearned head that doesn't know when a verse came down, what is the incident it is connected to, and what are the Islamic rulings it portrays, you'll hardly understand anything.

Seems to me like you're going about things backwards and now demanding (in a noticably hostile way) that muslims explain themselves or something. Wanting to learn means to open books and read and putting effort, and that means going to SECONDARY sources of analysis of reliable islamic scholars to read and learn such matters, and to take it in graduality, learn the basics first and understand them and then go to advanced or perhaps unclear matters.

After that if something is still not clear you can ask here in an appropriate less aggressive manner, and those who know will answer you.


Salaman
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