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جوري
10-03-2009, 07:39 PM
I need to get a feel for how many members on board are familiar with basic emergency procedure to perform when someone has stopped breathing.
so pls answer the poll questions..

:w:
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GuestFellow
10-03-2009, 07:43 PM
Ah I have no idea what to do. O.O
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جوري
10-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Insha'Allah after a few more people vote and I get a feel of the knowledge of the members, I'll give a step by step guide if folks here are interested..

:w:
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Argamemnon
10-03-2009, 07:47 PM
No, sad but true.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 07:51 PM
^^ it isn't a problem, it is very simple and we'll go over it after I have had a few more poll votes..

:w:
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Snowflake
10-03-2009, 07:54 PM
:sl: I have done a First Aid course. But I need a refresher. May Allah reward you sis. Ameen! :)

:wa:
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جوري
10-03-2009, 08:04 PM
Jazaki Allah khyran, it is really very simple.. as all that is required of you unless you are certified is three simple steps which make all the difference, as all that is needed is to get blood to the brain.
CPR even sloppily done has been proven to save someone's life until help gets there..

I am going to post simple videos/instructions here, but in a step wise fashion, the first thing that is absolutely paramount before all else is to call for help.. one will get tired from chest compressions and blowing breath into someone before they realize five minutes have elapsed with no help in sight..

so first is to call the person by name.. Annie annie are you ok, with a simple nudge on the shoulder or hands, if no response, then immediately 911 or whatever the number is for your country.. then you proceed with two breath and 30 compressions.. in children you give two breaths first before calling 911


CPR IN THREE SIMPLE STEPS
(Please try to attend a CPR training course) wwwislamicboardcom - CLICK HERE FOR A VIDEO DEMONSTRATION
1. CALL Check the victim for unresponsiveness. If there is no response, Call 911 and return to the victim. In most locations the emergency dispatcher can assist you with CPR instructions.
quick1 - 2. BLOW Tilt the head back and listen for breathing. If not breathing normally, pinch nose and cover the mouth with yours and blow until you see the chest rise. Give 2 breaths. Each breath should take 1 second.
blowani - 3. PUMP
If the victim is still not breathing normally, coughing or moving, begin chest compressions. Push down on the chest 11/2 to 2 inches 30 times right between the nipples. Pump at the rate of 100/minute, faster than once per second.

handposition -
pumpani -
CONTINUE WITH 2 BREATHS AND 30 PUMPS UNTIL HELP ARRIVES
NOTE: This ratio is the same for one-person & two-person CPR. In two-person CPR the person pumping the chest stops while the other gives mouth-to-mouth breathing.

______________________________
Learn CPR - Perform CPR on small children
CPR for Children (Ages 1-8)
wwwislamicboardcom - CLICK HERE FOR A VIDEO DEMONSTRATION
CPR for children is similar CPR for adults. The compression to ventilation ratio is 30:2. There are, however, 3 differences.
blowani child - 1) If you are alone with the child give two minutes of CPR before calling 911 pumpani child - 2) Use the heel of one or two hands for chest compression 3) Press the sternum approximately one-third the depth of the chest

RETURN TO MAIN MENU


_________________________
CPR for Infants (Age <1)
wwwislamicboardcom - CLICK HERE FOR A VIDEO DEMONSTRATION
infant1 - 1. Shout and Tap Shout and gently tap the child on the shoulder. If there is no response, position the infant on his or her back
infant2 - 2. Open The Airway Open the airway using a head tilt lifting of chin. Do not tilt the head too far back
infant3 - 3. Give 2 Gentle Breaths If the baby is NOT breathing give 2 small gentle breaths. Cover the baby's mouth and nose with your mouth. Each breath should be 1 second long. You should see the baby's chest rise with each breath.
infant5 - 4. Give 30 Compressions Give 30 gentle chest compressions at the rate of 100 per minute. Use two or three fingers in the center of the chest just below the nipples. Press down approximately one-third the depth of the chest.
5. Repeat Repeat with 2 breath and 30 compressions. After two minutes of repeated cycles call 911 and continue giving breaths and compressions.


_____________________________




this site is very helpful.. so learn it inside out it takes five minutes to master it and can make all the difference, as a person loses ten percent function in 1 minute so in ten minutes someone will be dead unless you act correctly.. help generally arrives within that interval so until it gets there, that is what you can do


:w:


http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/index.html
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☆ღUmm Uthmanღ☆
10-03-2009, 08:09 PM
:sl:

I'm certified in first-aid & cpr, very gud idea sis! Reminders are always gud for the believers:statisfie

:wa:
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InToTheRain
10-03-2009, 08:16 PM
:sl:

I selected the 3rd option, I know you will give the details at the end but would be nice if you can grade it! :

1) You will check the Pulse on the left arm to ascertain if they have a Pulse...but they probably shouldn't as they are not breathing (right?)!

2. If they have stopped breathing you would first press on their stomach in case something is stuck in their diaphragm Or to remove waste in their lungs so you can give him/her the breath of life.

3. When you are breathing into them you will hold their nose and grip his chin in order to ascertain air is going into him/her.

repeat 2-3 until the individual breaths or accept that his/her time has come.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
:sl:

I selected the 3rd option, I know you will give the details at the end but would be nice if you can grade it! :

1) You will check the Pulse on the left arm to ascertain if they have a Pulse...but they probably shouldn't as they are not breathing (right?)!

2. If they have stopped breathing you would first press on their stomach in case something is stuck in their diaphragm Or to remove waste in their lungs so you can give him/her the breath of life.

3. When you are breathing into them you will hold their nose and grip his chin in order to ascertain air is going into him/her.

repeat 2-3 until the individual breaths or accept that his/her time has come.
:sl:
the new guidelines are really simplified so you don't bother with any of those things, you'll see if something is lodged in someone if you give two breaths and their chest doesn't rise, it is NOT recommended that you remove something from anyone's throat as you might actually further lodge it down, if they are actively chocking or you are a witness to the event then you must perform the Heimlich maneuver, which you can refer to in the sight above.. otherwise you just simply follow the three step wise process without complicating it at all..
1- check for response, if none then call 911
2- tilt the head up open the airway and listen for breath
3- close the nose and open the mouth give two breaths and thirty compressions continuously until help arrives.. pause every two mins to see if the person comes to, if they do then title them to the side, if they don't then keep at it..

4- if you are a witness to a cardiac arrest and you ARE TRAINED then you can make a fist and strike the patient only once between the nipple line, if nothing happens then you continue CPR as before..

:w:
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InToTheRain
10-03-2009, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
:sl:
the new guidelines are really simplified so you don't bother with any of those things, you'll see if something is lodged in someone if you give two breaths and their chest doesn't rise, it is NOT recommended that you remove something from anyone's throat as you might actually further lodge it down, if they are actively chocking or you are a witness to the event then you must perform the Heimlich maneuver, which you can refer to in the sight above.. otherwise you just simply follow the three step wise process without complicating it at all..
1- check for response, if none then call 911
2- tilt the head up open the airway and listen for breath
3- close the nose and open the mouth give two breaths and thirty compressions continuously until help arrives.. pause every two mins to see if the person comes to, if they do then title them to the side, if they don't then keep at it..

4- if you are a witness to a cardiac arrest and you ARE TRAINED then you can make a fist and strike the patient only once between the nipple line, if nothing happens then you continue CPR as before..

:w:
Jazak Allah, It guess it is simple once you put it like that but performing it under pressure is another thing altogether. Have you experienced this?

:wa:
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Muhaba
10-03-2009, 08:48 PM
Great thread!

I have a book on first aid but haven't studied it much.

i think you have to make sure the clothes are loose & check his/her throat to make sure nothing is stuck in it? not sure about this. I guess i should study it as this is very important.
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GuestFellow
10-03-2009, 08:54 PM
That was quite useful. Thanks for posting.
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Mr.President
10-03-2009, 08:56 PM
any way whats ACLS/BCLS ? honestly I don't know !!!
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid
Jazak Allah, It guess it is simple once you put it like that but performing it under pressure is another thing altogether. Have you experienced this?

:wa:
in the hospital yes, but we have equipments and usually work with defibrillators and drugs, but that is a whole other animal and assessment.. it is what we call ACLS.. and there is a huge logarithm for it, depending on the problem for instance if the person passed out due to a type of arrhythmia for instance, you treat asystole, differently from V-fib, which differs from torsades de pointes and all is of course dependent on whether the patient is stable vs unstable.. I really don't want to get into that here.. since you'll need an EKG to diagnose those instantly, and no person has those sort of equipments just lying around.. hence what you do in the first few minutes, though they may seem eternal is very important..

Baraka Allah feek

:w:
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glo
10-03-2009, 09:02 PM
Working for the health service and being directly involved with people in the community, I do basic CPR as part of my annual compulsory training schedule.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
any way whats ACLS/BCLS ? honestly I don't know !!!
ACLS is Advanced Cardiac Life Support which is an extension of Basic Cardiac Life Support.. It involves pharmacology as I have gone over briefly in the previous page!

:w:
Reply

glo
10-03-2009, 09:22 PM
Skye, at my last CPR training one of the community nurses told how she had recently come across a man who required CPR. She told us how she looked at the face of this stranger and felt repulsed at the thought of putting her mouth to his - she said that she was surprised to find herself feeling like that, because she hadn't expected it ...
Luckily a mask was available, and it was no problem.

It left us talking as a group about how to deal with such a situation if there is no mask or nothing similar to a mask available.
The trainer said that many people would be hesitant to give mouth-to-mouth to another adult, and that such a feeling is not uncommon.

She also said that if mouth-to-mouth was not an option (for whatever reason), then just doing compressions was still better than nothing, because through the compressions alone at least some air gets sucked into the lungs and then circulated.

What is your opinion on this?
Reply

جوري
10-03-2009, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by muhaba
Great thread!

I have a book on first aid but haven't studied it much.

i think you have to make sure the clothes are loose & check his/her throat to make sure nothing is stuck in it? not sure about this. I guess i should study it as this is very important.
well yeah, I mean you definitely need to work on their chest so you have to open their top completely!

Originally Posted by Guestfellow
That was quite useful. Thanks for posting.

Baraka Allah feek, insha'Allah it is of help

:w:
Reply

جوري
10-03-2009, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Skye, at my last CPR training one of the community nurses told how she had recently come across a man who required CPR. She told us how she looked at the face of this stranger and felt repulsed at the thought of putting her mouth to his - she said that she was surprised to find herself feeling like that, because she hadn't expected it ...
Luckily a mask was available, and it was no problem.

It left us talking as a group about how to deal with such a situation if there is no mask or nothing similar to a mask available.
The trainer said that many people would be hesitant to give mouth-to-mouth to another adult, and that such a feeling is not uncommon.

She also said that if mouth-to-mouth was not an option (for whatever reason), then just doing compressions was still better than nothing, because through the compressions alone at least some air gets sucked into the lungs and then circulated.

What is your opinion on this?
yes compressions are better than nothing at all, and that is why calling for help is essential.. the most important thing is to get blood to the brain because brain death occurs rapidly every minute lost spells functions lost.. people think that CPR is about getting the heart pumping, it is really not, it is about getting oxygenated blood to the brain, but usually if it is a family member then I am sure you wouldn't mind giving mouth to mouth.. it is wise to carry a mask around, they are discreet and fit into anyone's purse or bag..

all the best
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alcurad
10-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
well yeah, I mean you definitely need to work on their chest so you have to open their top completely!
*faints*

<_<

I know CPR btw.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:30 PM
that is how small it is..

W4453largespecial -
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glo
10-03-2009, 09:32 PM
Yes, I agree, giving mouth-to-mouth to a family member or a child probably wouldn't be an issue.

You know when you do the same training every year, and still you take something new away each time?
I must say the most important message this year was that doing the best you can - even if it's not perfect - is better than doing nothing; and that the worst thing you can do is do nothing for fear of getting it wrong!

You will probably complain about the British Health Service, but I work in a multi-disciplinary community team, which provides services, visits and advice to people in day centres, schools and their own homes ... and we are not provided with CPR masks!
Either we buy our own, or we don't have any ... :heated:
Reply

glo
10-03-2009, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
that is how small it is..

W4453largespecial 1 -
Yes, those are neat - and have a one-way valve too, I seem to remember.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:35 PM
there is also this type which is very small and fits with your keychain

4055 -
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alcurad
10-03-2009, 09:37 PM
^hmm, this one looks like it'll tear easily.
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Rasema
10-03-2009, 09:39 PM
:sl:
Call 911

Ask police what to do. :hiding:

JazzakAllahu khairan sister. I really never thaught about this. I wonder what did people in the past do. I have heard stories where the doctors would cut a human so theit blood comes out because they thaught the blood was causing it and if the person dies they thaught they didn't cut the person fast enough,or something like that.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
^hmm, this one looks like it'll tear easily.
all you need is to deliver air and curb on germs, a person who is just laying there is really no great threat to anyone.. but yeah I see that it is flimsy.. thus it is better to get the sturdier form..

I wouldn't personally give mouth to mouth to someone who wasn't family without a safe shield!

:w:
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alcurad
10-03-2009, 09:42 PM
some infectious diseases-AIDS etc-can spread through spittle right?
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Danah
10-03-2009, 09:42 PM
I think I know but no formal training or certification....just general tips about it!!!

good thread!
I need such thing to learn, jazakiAllah khair sis :)
Reply

Rasema
10-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
infectious diseases-AIDS etc-can spread through spittle right?
That's a good point but you would also let someone die so, I owuld be frenzzy and that is all.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by alcurad
infectious diseases-AIDS etc-can spread through spittle right?
can't get AIDS through spittle unless you and patient both have bleeding lips and an exchange
Originally Posted by Danah
I think I know but no formal training or certification....just general tips about it!!!

good thread!
I need such thing to learn, jazakiAllah khair sis :)
Baraka Allah feeki, my pleasure..


btw this whole thread isn't inspired so you can run to the aid of random strangers, although it would be nice if you can make a mere phone call to get them help, however, in case of an at home emergency, you need to know what to do if God forbid a parent or a sibling or a child or a cousin needs your urgent help..my aunt just lost her husband recently and has been feeling very guilty about it, not that I think that CPR would have saved my uncle as it was time to go, but just so you are not living with so much guilt of what if I had done this or that, and for just that reason I post this..

:w:
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جوري
10-03-2009, 09:49 PM
you need to memorize this stuff, you have no time to ask someone for what to do, you need to act!

:w:
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Rasema
10-03-2009, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
you need to memorize this stuff, you have no time to ask someone for what to do, you need to act!

:w:
:sl:
True...
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alcurad
10-03-2009, 10:02 PM
indeed, thanks for sharing.
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جوري
10-03-2009, 10:10 PM
thank you for reading..

:w:
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جوري
10-03-2009, 11:38 PM
whoaaaaaa would the ACLS/BCLS certified pls identify themselves? :D
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Life_Is_Short
03-03-2010, 11:05 PM
I have two certificates in basics. One has expired and the other has no date on it. Seen it in action on T.V several times too.

I am going to refresh knowledge and skills by doing another training session. They're free to college students. :P
Reply

islamirama
03-04-2010, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
wwwislamicboardcom - 2. BLOW Tilt the head back and listen for breathing. If not breathing normally, pinch nose and cover the mouth with yours and blow until you see the chest rise. Give 2 breaths. Each breath should take 1 second.
That is old stuff, studies have shown you don't need to pucker up to save someone's life. Doing simple chest compressions alone is just as effective and less gross, not to mention more hygienic.
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جوري
03-04-2010, 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
That is old stuff, studies have shown you don't need to pucker up to save someone's life. Doing simple chest compressions alone is just as effective and less gross, not to mention more hygienic.
Indeed you are right, but they didn't do away with it because it is 'unnecessary' they did away with it because they felt that folks would be less inclined to help if they had to go mouth to mouth and not everyone has a CPR mask handy getting some blood to the brain from compressions is better than nothing at all.. even shocking someone lousily is better than not at all (that is if you are a witness to a cardiac arrest and portable just happens to be lying around) however if it is someone you know like a family member, then it is best to go for both..


:w:
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CosmicPathos
03-04-2010, 03:38 AM
I have no CPR certification as of yet.

Since we are at it, what would Islamic ethics dictate if the victim is a non-mehram female and the only available help is a religious Muslim male? Is he allowed to strip open her tops for giving CPR in such an emergency situation? hmmmm.
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جوري
03-04-2010, 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I have no CPR certification as of yet.

Since we are at it, what would Islamic ethics dictate if the victim is a non-mehram female and the only available help is a religious Muslim male? Is he allowed to strip open her tops for giving CPR in such an emergency situation? hmmmm.
Necessity overrides prohibition but that is in fact if you know what you are doing is going to save someone life and not simple cater to a quick perversion!

you should read this on Islamic medical ethics..

http://www.emro.who.int/morocco/docs...mic_Ethics.pdf

and Allah swt knows best..

:w:
Reply

CosmicPathos
03-04-2010, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Necessity overrides prohibition but that is in fact if you know what you are doing is going to save someone life and not simple cater to a quick perversion!

you should read this on Islamic medical ethics..

http://www.emro.who.int/morocco/docs...mic_Ethics.pdf

and Allah swt knows best..

:w:
:wa:

jazakAllah for that. That is what I thought too because we are humans first, and then Muslims. Some brothers although say that we are Muslims first and then humans.

The counter-argument is that maybe its a test from Allah (swt) to put a Muslim religious male in that situation to see if he will have inappropriate glances. How do I counter that?
:wa:
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جوري
03-04-2010, 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
:wa:

jazakAllah for that. That is what I thought too because we are humans first, and then Muslims. Some brothers although say that we are Muslims first and then humans.

The counter-argument is that maybe its a test from Allah (swt) to put a Muslim religious male in that situation to see if he will have inappropriate glances. How do I counter that?
:wa:
you should read the PDF I included insha'Allah in full and then ask questions as pertain to medical ethics which doesn't differ all that much from Islamic medical ethics:

Al-Ghazali considered the profession of medicine as (fardh - Kifaya), a duty on society that some of its members can carry in lieu of the whole. This is natural since the need of health is a primary need and not a anything in life remains enjoyable.
That it is permissible for the purpose of treatment to look at hidden and private parts of the body, derives from the rule of jurisprudence 'necessities override prohibitions' and complies with the Ooranic excuse when "compelled to do something but without ill- intention". Since the early days of Islam the Lady- Healer's corps joined the Prophet's army to battle caring for the casualties and dressing their wounds on whatever part of the body. This provoked no dispute or divergence of opinion.
To import medical expertise and to treat Muslims by non-Muslim physicians should be decided only by the condition of the patient and the capability of the doctor.
Since an early time the Muslim State employed Christian doctors from Jundishapur and treated them Very generously. In this context it is also worthy remembering that the Prophet's guide on the journey of Hijra was Abdullah Ibn Uraikit, a non-Muslim, chosen by the Prophet on account.


:w:
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Dagless
03-04-2010, 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
:wa:

jazakAllah for that. That is what I thought too because we are humans first, and then Muslims. Some brothers although say that we are Muslims first and then humans.

The counter-argument is that maybe its a test from Allah (swt) to put a Muslim religious male in that situation to see if he will have inappropriate glances. How do I counter that?
:wa:
What alternative is there? Test or not, Muslim first or not, if the person dies and you could have helped prevent it, its going to be worse than anything - I mean both religiously and personally.
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CosmicPathos
03-04-2010, 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by Dagless
What alternative is there? Test or not, Muslim first or not, if the person dies and you could have helped prevent it, its going to be worse than anything - I mean both religiously and personally.
Interesting. I understand that it could be worse from religious point of view if Allah (swt) holds you accountable for it.
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Ali Mujahidin
03-27-2011, 01:22 PM
As salaam mualaikum.

No, I have absolutely no idea what to do. JazakuLLah for the information.

One other thing, from the little that I have learned about Islam, a Muslim is always a human being. To save the life of another human being is not a choice. It is a duty. There are many things which are haram in general but are allowed in specific situations. For example, it is forbidden to eat pork but if it is a choice between eating pork and dying of hunger, then eating pork is allowed.

Likewise in a life and death situation. It doesn't matter whether the victim is a muhrim or not. Saving a life takes precedence. Whether or not the victim can be saved is all entirely up to Allah but since Allah placed us there in a position to do something about it, it is our duty to do what we can. Insha Allah.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
03-27-2011, 10:18 PM
Assalaamu Alaaykum

This is a great thread, i learnt how to perform CPR at college :-\ , but i guess i tend to forget easily.

But the information was indeed helpful, Jazakallaahu Khaair
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Amat Allah
03-28-2011, 05:29 AM
I learnt it through videos and books and there is no certificates...
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syilla
03-28-2011, 02:37 PM
assallam i think theres new ways of doing other than cpr...the modern ways would not use mouth to mouth technique
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-09-2012, 05:59 PM
Bump!


......................
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GuestFellow
04-09-2012, 06:33 PM
Salaam,

I'll just call the paramedics. Seriously, I might kill someone.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

I'll just call the paramedics. Seriously, I might kill someone.
Wa Alaaykum AsSalaam,

I'm sure if you keep practicing it will get better, inshaa'Allaah,

as they say 'practice makes perfect' ..
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Salahudeen
04-09-2012, 08:38 PM
If I had any power I would make it mandatory for basic first aid to be taught in every school and for every pupil to reach a set standard in it before progressing. :hmm:
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GuestFellow
04-09-2012, 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
If I had any power I would make it mandatory for basic first aid to be taught in every school and for every pupil to reach a set standard in it before progressing. :hmm:
Salaam,

If I'm about to die, just call the paramedics!!! :skeleton: If I die, oh well. :ermm:
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Insaanah
04-13-2012, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
Salaam,

I'll just call the paramedics. Seriously, I might kill someone.
:wa:

You can't kill someone through doing CPR. The person is most likely very nearly dead anyway. If they aren't, they might be in the next few minutes (before the paramedics arrive), unless you do something that is. Even if you do, it's not guaranteed to work, but it gives them a chance, which they otherwise won't have. Even if you do it badly, it still gives them a chance. At most, you might break a rib of theirs doing CPR. Most people I know would rather be alive with a cracked rib (and any problems that it might cause), than dead. And remember, mouth to mouth does not need to be done now for basic CPR, just chest compressions. Everyone should learn CPR as Br Salahudeen said. It is one of the single most important skills a person can have.

Muhsin Khan
Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.. (5:32, part)
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GuestFellow
04-13-2012, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah

:wa:

You can't kill someone through doing CPR. The person is most likely very nearly dead anyway. If they aren't, they might be in the next few minutes (before the paramedics arrive), unless you do something that is. Even if you do, it's not guaranteed to work, but it gives them a chance, which they otherwise won't have. Even if you do it badly, it still gives them a chance. At most, you might break a rib of theirs doing CPR. Most people I know would rather be alive with a cracked rib (and any problems that it might cause), than dead. And remember, mouth to mouth does not need to be done now for basic CPR, just chest compressions. Everyone should learn CPR as Br Salahudeen said. It is one of the single most important skills a person can have.
:wa:

I think I rather die than have broken ribs... :skeleton:
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Jalal~
05-04-2012, 01:03 AM
:sl:
i have a question: is it allowed in Islam for a male to do this to a female and vice versa since its a life or death situation?
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