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bibish
10-19-2009, 08:36 PM
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

I am a convert to Islam and I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity. Coming from a non-muslim background - all my family are not muslim - this is very difficult to accept. I can't imagine the people I love ending up in hell and not being in paradise. imsad Most of my friends are also not muslim and are atheists, Christians and Hindus and are the most loveliest people you could imagine. I read that adults who have not heard the message, however, i.e. the testimony of faith, will not be held accountable. What if they hear about islam on the news and never hear the shahada or what if I talk to them about islam in general and just never mention that? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thank you :statisfie
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Rasema
10-19-2009, 08:45 PM
:sl:
I took time to find this thread I hope you readit and that it benefits you.


Alex,

Your question is a very crucial one that has confused and kept up a lot of people awake at night. I hope to help you and others understand this as I struggled with it a long time before and luckily great Sheikh explained it beautfully for me.

First off what Alpha Dude said is correct, you need to have received the message correctly. Not receiving a message is clear and the Quran says "Whoever chooses to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good; and whoever goes astray. goes but astray to his own hurt; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another" burden. Moreover. We would never chastise [any community for the wrong they may do[ ere We have sent an apostle [to them]." So if someone never heard of God's religion or heard a distorted story about it (like "there are those muslims and they believe in multiple Gods and are barbarians who kill each other over them") then God is their judge on judgement day to know what is in their heart and how to reward or punish them.

Now with that aside, we need to talk about the current day communities of people who you and I meet and can be nice and kind-hearted, and just say they think all the religions are fabricated and don't believe in them, or choose some deviant man-made religion in order to improve their spirituality.

We as muslims have learned something very important, and that is "intention". The prophet said "deeds are by intention, and for every person the reward of whatever he intended. So whomever makes hijra (migration) for God and his apostle, then his hijra is for God and his apostle, and whomever makes hijra for a worldly affair to win, or a woman to marry, then his hijra is for what he has intended it for"

A muslim person is rewarded when and only when he intends to please God and for the sake of God. If you give money to the poor because it is charity and God likes that, then it's charity and is accepted, if you give it so that you look good in front of your fiance, or to ask that person later on for something to do for you, you'll get no reward for it. The prophet said in a hadith (to the meaning of): "There will come three people on judgement day, a scholar, a charitable man, and a warrior.
The scholar will be asked in what he spent his life, and he will say: "I spent it gaining knowledge and teaching people oh God, for you", and he will be told "You lie, you did that so that people would say what a great scholar, and it was said, so it's done." and he is placed in hell.
The charitable man would be asked the same and he will say: "I spent from your provisions on the poor and needy for your sake", and he will be told "You lie, you did that so people would say what a generous man, and it was said." and this man is placed in hell as well.
The warrior would be asked the same and he will say: "I made jihad and died for your sake!" and he will be told "You lie, you did that so people would say what a hero, and it was said." and he too will be placed in hell."

Our deeds are attached to our intentions, and all our rewards are attached to making it for the sake God.

Now Alex, if someone doesn't believe in God, WHAT IS THE GOOD THING THEY DO INTENDED FOR?

You see good deeds are good, and they have their immediate rewards. That is actually what you see in people who don't believe, they do something good but expect something in return. Sometimes it is vulgar and short-sided as "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", but many times it is more of "if I do this they will like me", and "if I do this I will get more business", and "if I give money I'll take it off my tax return and look good in front of the community".

You know what? There is even the bigger one that is actually tricky: "I do this because it FEELS GOOD!"

Well yes, God al-hamdolellah created in us the instincts that make good deeds feel good to good people. But if you do a deed only to feel good, then God wasn't in that equation, was He?

That is actually WHY non-believers are given an easier life and as mentioned in another thread here, seem to be getting a happy life. That is their reward for whatever sincere actions happen from them.

God is never going to be unfair, he has given us all the same shot. If the people were sincerely good, they would shiver upon reading or hearing the verses of Quran and say "We believe". Instead they choose to refuse the charge and come up with all sorts of arguments why they're "not convinced". I will never forget the argument I had with an athiest I was discussing on a different board, that he claimed he doesn't believe at all all this we say about the scientific miracles of Quran, and when I asked why, he said that he looked at them and found that number 23 (iron brought down from space) MAY have been known by people then judging from the meteorites, so a person COULD have told the prophet about it. I wrote back "So you got tonumber 23, but while reading the first 22 miracles you just passed through and could not even acknowledge what you've read?!" to which he said, that he cannot explain that or comment on it but that this one shows THAT YOU'RE MAKING THINGS UP!

If that man stops at a traffic light, it will be because he avoids a traffic fine. If he picks up litter, it will be because he wants a clean street for himself to enjoy or actually far-sighted to think about his kids. If he is standing at a charity event, you can be very confident that he's there networking with other business people or getting a tax break or maybe pleasing someone else. If they don't believe in God, then to them there is no God to do anything for. And God rewards those who serve him and obey him in what he has ordained upon us.

(You can't enter a play or a concert without booking and buying a ticket, why would they enter paradise when they don't have one, especially that the tickets were free: All they had to do was say La Elaha Ella Allah and the ticket gets booked and will be waiting for them there)

God bless all those who believe and worship him.
__________________


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tresbien
10-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Islam is not just uttering the Shahaadatayn only, rather it is essential to fulfil the conditions of this twin declaration of faith so that the one who utters them will truly be a Muslim. The pillars of Islam are believing, uttering and acting.

It was narrated that Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever says ‘I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah alone [with no partner or associate] and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger, and that ‘Eesa is the slave of Allaah, the son of His maidservant, a Word which He bestowed upon Maryam and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and that Hell is true, Allaah will admit him through whichever of the eight gates of Paradise he wants.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (3252) and Muslim (28).

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The words “Whoever says ‘I bear witness that there is no god except Allaah alone” mean, the one who speaks these words, knowing what they mean and acting upon them inwardly and outwardly, because with regard to the Shahaadatayn it is essential that one know and be certain and act upon them as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “So know (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) that Laa ilaaha illAllaah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allaah)” [Muhammad 47:19].

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “except for those who bear witness to the truth knowingly (i.e. believed in the Oneness of Allaah, and obeyed His Orders), and they know (the facts about the Oneness of Allaah)” [al-Zukhruf 43:86]. As for uttering the words without knowing the meaning or believing with certainty or acting upon them by disavowing shirk and being sincere in word and deed, and saying in one's heart and on one's lips and acting in one’s heart and with one's outward faculties, that is of no benefit, according to scholarly consensus.

Al-Qurtubi said in al-Mufhim ‘ala Saheeh Muslim: Chapter: it is not sufficient merely to speak the Shahaadatayn, rather it is essential to believe it with certainty in one’s heart. This draws attention to the flawed argument of the extreme Murji’ah who say that merely uttering the Shahaadatayn is sufficient to make one a believer. The ahaadeeth on this subject indicate that this is wrong; rather it is a view that is well known to be wrong according to sharee’ah, because it implies a justification of hypocrisy, and judging hypocrites as true believers, which is completely false. End quote.

This hadeeth also indicates this, in the words “whoever bears witness” because bearing witness can only be valid if it is based on knowledge, certainty, sincerity and honesty.

Fath al-Baari (p. 36).

There are seven conditions of bearing witness that there is no god but Allaah, and it does not benefit the one who says it unless he fulfils all of them. They are, in brief:

1- Knowledge as opposed to ignorance

2- Certainty as opposed to doubt

3- Acceptance as opposed to rejection

4- Obedience as opposed to disobedience

5- Sincerity as opposed to shirk

6- Honesty as opposed to lying

7- Love as opposed to its opposite, which is hate.

The conditions of bearing witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah are the same as the conditions of bearing witness that there is no god but Allaah, which have been mentioned with evidence in the answers to questions no. 9104 and 12295.

And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A

PLS READ QURAN EXPLANATION
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tresbien
10-19-2009, 09:17 PM
Allah said,

[إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الإِسْلَـمُ]

(Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam.) Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam. Islam includes obeying all of the Messengers until Muhammad who finalized their commission, thus closing all paths to Allah except through Muhammad . Therefore, after Allah sent Muhammad , whoever meets Allah following a path other than Muhammad's, it will not be accepted of him. In another Ayah, Allah said,

[وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلَـمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ]

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him) [3:85].

In this Ayah [3:19], Allah said, asserting that the only religion accepted with Him is Islam,

[إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الإِسْلَـمُ]

(Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam.)

Allah then states that those who were given the Scripture beforehand divided in the religion after Allah sent the Messengers and revealed the Books to them providing them the necessary proofs to not do so. Allah said,

[وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ إِلاَّ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَآءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ]

(Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them.) meaning, some of them wronged others. Therefore, they differed over the truth, out of envy, hatred and enmity for each other. This hatred made some of them defy those whom they hated even if they were correct. Allah then said,

[وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَـتِ اللَّهِ]

(And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat of Allah) meaning, whoever rejects what Allah sent down in His Book,

[فَإِنَّ اللَّهِ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ]

(then surely, Allah is Swift in reckoning.) Allah will punish him for his rejection, reckon him for his denial, and torment him for defying His Book. Thereafter, Allah said.

[فَإنْ حَآجُّوكَ]

(So if they dispute with you (Muhammad )) so if they argue with you about Tawhid,

[فَقُلْ أَسْلَمْتُ وَجْهِىَ للَّهِ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ]

(Say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me'') meaning, Say, `I have made my worship sincere for Allah Alone without partners, rivals, offspring or companion,

[وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ]

(and those who follow me) who followed my religion and embraced my creed.' In another Ayah, Allah said,

[قُلْ هَـذِهِ سَبِيلِى أَدْعُو إِلَى اللَّهِ عَلَى بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَاْ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِى]

(Say (O Muhammad ): "This is my way; I invite unto Allah with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me...'') [12:108].



Islam is the Religion of Mankind and the Prophet Was Sent to all Mankind

Allah commanded His servant and Messenger, Muhammad , to call the People of the Two Scriptures and the unlettered idolators to his religion, way, Law and all that Allah sent him with. Allah said,

[وَقُلْ لِّلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ وَالاٍّمِّيِّينَ ءَأَسْلَمْتُمْ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُواْ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَواْ وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلَـغُ]

(And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves'' If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message.) meaning, their reckoning is with Allah and their return and final destination is to Him. It is He Who guides whom He wills and allows whom He wills to stray, and He has the perfect wisdom and the unequivocal proof for all of this. This is why Allah said,

[وَاللَّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ]

(And Allah sees the servants.) for He has perfect knowledge of who deserves to be guided and who does not deserve to be guided. Verily,

[لاَ يُسْأَلُ عَمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسْـَلُونَ ]

(He cannot be questioned for what He does, while they will be questioned.) [21:23] because of His perfect wisdom and mercy. This and similar Ayat are clear proofs that the Message of Muhammad is universal to all creation, as it is well established in the religion, according to the various texts of the Book and Sunnah. For instance, Allah said,

[قُلْ يَأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنِّى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ جَمِيعًا]

(Say (O Muhammad ): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah.'') [7:158], and,

[تَبَارَكَ الَّذِى نَزَّلَ الْفُرْقَانَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ لِيَكُونَ لِلْعَـلَمِينَ نَذِيراً ]

(Blessed be He Who sent down the criterion to His servant that he may be a warner to the `Alamin (mankind and Jinn).) [25:1].

The Two Sahihs and other collections of Hadith recorded that the Prophet sent letters to the kings of the earth during his time and to different peoples, Arabs and non-Arabs, People of the Book and the unlettered, just as Allah had commanded him. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Ma`mar said, that Hammam said that Abu Hurayrah said that the Prophet said,

«وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ، لَا يَسْمَعُ بِي أَحَدٌ مِنْ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةِ: يَهُودِيٌّ وَلَا نَصْرَانِيٌّ، وَمَاتَ وَلَمْ يُؤْمِنْ بِالَّذِي أُرْسِلْتُ بِهِ، إِلَّا كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّار»

(By He in Whose Hand is my soul! No member of this Ummah, no Jew or Christian, hears of me but dies without believing in what I was sent with, but will be among the people of the Fire.) Muslim recorded this Hadith.

The Prophet said,

«بُعِثْتُ إِلَى الْأَحْمَرِ وَالْأَسْوَد»

(I was sent to the red and black. ) and,

«كَانَ النَّبِيُّ يُبْعَثُ إِلى قَوْمِهِ خَاصَّةً، وَبُعِثْتُ إِلَى النَّاسِ عَامَّة»

(A Prophet used to be sent to his people, but I was sent to all mankind.)

[إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَـتِ اللَّهِ وَيَقْتُلُونَ النَّبِيِّينَ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ وَيَقْتُلُونَ الَّذِينَ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْقِسْطِ مِنَ النَّاسِ فَبَشِّرْهُم بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ - أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَـلُهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالاٌّخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن نَّـصِرِينَ ]

(21. Verily, those who disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, then announce to them a painful torment.) (22. They are those whose works will be lost in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.)
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Nur-ud-Dean
10-20-2009, 12:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by bibish
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

I am a convert to Islam and I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity. Coming from a non-muslim background - all my family are not muslim - this is very difficult to accept. I can't imagine the people I love ending up in hell and not being in paradise. imsad Most of my friends are also not muslim and are atheists, Christians and Hindus and are the most loveliest people you could imagine. I read that adults who have not heard the message, however, i.e. the testimony of faith, will not be held accountable. What if they hear about islam on the news and never hear the shahada or what if I talk to them about islam in general and just never mention that? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thank you :statisfie

Wa alaikum asalaam.

There are lots of incorrect ideas on this topic: many people report being told that they will go to hell if they don't become Muslim. It's just not that simple.

Humans are held accountable according to the messages they have received and understood. So someone who never reads or hears of scripture will not be accountable for it, but only accountable to his fitra (nature). Allah clearly states in the Qur'an that those of the Christians and Jews etc that "have faith and do good works", "they shall not fear and neither shall they grieve".

As I understand it (and I may be wrong - Allahu allim), it is not enough to simply be aware of Islam - you have to understand it and then reject it to be counted among those who conceal the truth.

Hope that helps.

Nur-ud-Dean

New Muslim Dhikr - The website for new Muslims.
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Thinker
10-20-2009, 09:34 AM
This is one main of the reasons why I rejected Catholicism (the religion of my parents). In Catholicism, if you die with a mortal sin on your soul i.e. you commit a mortal sin but die before confessing and being absolved from it you go to hell. So you could be the purest and most pious person in the world, make one mistake and die on the way to the confessional and be condemned to eternity in hell. That is unjust and God cannot be unjust. In the same way, I can’t believe that God would give a place in heaven to bad Muslims and send good non Muslims to hell.
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tresbien
10-20-2009, 11:26 AM
So, let us go to the Qur’an to find what it says about the fate of Non-Muslims:


Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


Surah 2 Verse 62

Here we find that Islam teaches that all people whether technically Jews or Christians or even Sabians (an ancient religious group) are entitled to be rewarded from God. That is on the condition that they believe in God and the Day of Judgment and lead a good life.

This is quite different than the Jewish and Christian beliefs. Jews believe that the Children of Israel are the ones specially chosen by God for all His blessings. Similarly Christians maintain that those who believe in Christ’s atonement are guaranteed of heaven, irrespective of their actions. Unlike both these groups, Islam holds that any one who leads a good correct life, here on earth, on the basis that there is a God Who is the Supreme Ruler and Judge of all His creatures, will be rewarded in the hereafter.

Here we need to understand who a Muslim is. A Muslim is a person who submits to God. It is not the name of a caste or race. That is to say, any human can be a Muslim if:
(a)He believes in one and only one God.
(b)He leads a good life by submitting to that one God.
One can ask whether this also is an exclusivist stand. The answer is that there cannot but be a dividing line between good and evil. Those who court evil are naturally excluded from Divine Grace. It is a law of nature, (in other words, God’s own law) that we are destined to face the consequences of our decisions and actions. A person’s action is considered good or bad based on the intention behind it. The Prophet (pbuh) has said:

‘Actions are judged on the basis of intentions.’

For example, think of a person who unknowingly gave poison to a patient, thinking that it was medicine. If the patient dies as a consequence, we do not consider that person a murderer. It is because the sincere intention was good. Thus, we can see that many apparently bad actions need not really be bad and vice versa. We can go a little further and say that good intentions in themselves become good, if they are based on the right philosophy or the right belief. As for our earthly life, we should take care that our actions are motivated by the right purposes, arising from the right beliefs.

Islam provides a philosophy, a world-view, in which the source of all good is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. This means that the way of life Islam teaches is divinely ordained and that it is quite in conformity with the principles on which the whole universe functions. It is the same Creator Who has decided that His reward is for those who follow His laws. There is no real sense in saying that He should reward those who deny, even His existence!

A non-Muslim, by definition, is a person who does not recognize God as a Sovereign Law giver Who rewards the good and punishes the bad. For this reason, he has no claim to any reward from God. He may be doing apparently good deeds; but his good deeds are not based on seeking to do God's will. So they can only get the instrumentally good results that they can naturally have in this world, and not the reward of the other world which can only come from morally good acts.

As for Muslims, who apparently hold the right beliefs - they will get the Divine reward only if they lead good lives derived from the right beliefs. Islam, unlike Christianity, does not teach that faith alone can save a person. Both faith and exerting effort are necessary; they are the two sides of the same coin.
.
[B][B]Unfortunately, because none of us is perfect, we are prone to making mistakes and falling into sin. Those from amongst us who chose not to follow what the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) brought, yet believe in the One True God, Allah, as Muslims will have to be purified of their sins by spending some time in the hellfire. We ask Allah keep us from falling into sin and to forgive us for the many sins we commit every day.

According to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), anyone who says, La ilaha illallah (There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah) will not spend eternity in the hellfire. One second of punishment, however, may seem like an eternity by our earthly standards, so we should never assume that we will only be there for a short time.

Now is the time for repentance. Allah can and will forgive us if we turn to him sincerely in repentance, but if we die before we were able to repent for our sins, then we will suffer in the next life. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said:

Allah accepts a bondsman's repentance as long as the latter is not on his deathbed (that is, before the soul of the dying person reaches the throat).
[This Hadith was reported by At-Tirmidhi].
This is not a temporary Hell. Hell is a fixed, permanent place, but Allah may allow some Muslims to be released from it because of His mercy.

We believe that the Prophet will be allowed by Allah to intercede on behalf of some believers who are in Hell, and by Allah's will they will be taken out of Hell.

Allah will also take out of the Hell some believers, not because someone has interceded on their behalf, but simply because He chooses to.

Your simple question, then, required quite a complicated answer! In summary, as Muslims we believe some wicked Muslims will be sent to Hell for a limited time but ultimately will be granted Paradise because of the mercy of Allah.

to read more
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...AskAboutIslamE
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Muslim Woman
10-20-2009, 04:42 PM
:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by bibish
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

I am a convert to Islam
Welcome to Islam :statisfie

I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity.
God created heaven for believers . So , if anyone rejects oneness of God , s/he can't deserve paradise. S/he will get rewards in this world only and this is the justice of our Creator.

Don't be upset about it and try to invite family members and friends to the Truth .

Final Day will be very scary for all of us . Mothers won't look at newborn babies , fathers will ask God to throw his family members including kids to fire but forgive him . On that day , God will be just and won't do any injustice to anyone. Is not it a wonderful promise of our Creator ?

Those who never heard of Islam , I read a hadiht about them like this : some will tell God , we never heard of you ; if we did , we surely would have accepted the truth. Then God will order them to jump in to the fire . Those who will obey the order will be forgiven . Those who won't follow , God will tell them u didn't obey order that u got from me directly; So , how can u claim that in the world u would have obeyed my orders if that u got from others ?

And Allah Knows Best.
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bibish
10-20-2009, 06:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nur-ud-Dean
Wa alaikum asalaam.

There are lots of incorrect ideas on this topic: many people report being told that they will go to hell if they don't become Muslim. It's just not that simple.

Humans are held accountable according to the messages they have received and understood. So someone who never reads or hears of scripture will not be accountable for it, but only accountable to his fitra (nature). Allah clearly states in the Qur'an that those of the Christians and Jews etc that "have faith and do good works", "they shall not fear and neither shall they grieve".

As I understand it (and I may be wrong - Allahu allim), it is not enough to simply be aware of Islam - you have to understand it and then reject it to be counted among those who conceal the truth.

Hope that helps.

Nur-ud-Dean

New Muslim Dhikr - The website for new Muslims.
Thank you very much for your message. It was very interesting to read and made me feel a lot better :statisfie
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bibish
10-20-2009, 06:17 PM
Thank you all for your interesting replies!!!!
Reply

czgibson
10-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Nur-ud-Dean
it is not enough to simply be aware of Islam - you have to understand it and then reject it to be counted among those who conceal the truth.
I've heard this point being mentioned before, and I can't make sense of it. Understanding something like Islam is not an on/off switch, it's something that develops over time. So when is the cutoff point? Presumably no human can give an answer to this - Allahu allim, I suppose.

If Islam was true, I would be expecting to go to hell. I've been aware of Islam for many years, and I've been reading about it regularly for about ten years, and I've never felt the slightest urge to convert. In fact, the more I've learned about it, the less likely that has become.

Peace
Reply

tresbien
10-20-2009, 06:44 PM
czgibson and thinker
Seek refuge in ALLAH from satan.Raise u hand and supplicate to him with u heart for guidance.Say to him ALLAH open my breast to u.I am weak and confused.Do not let me down.He will not fail you.He is the hearer and seer.

"O my Lord! Open for me my chest. * And ease my task for me. * And make loose the knot from my tongue, that they understand my speech." (20/

O Allah, Knower of the unseen and the seen, Creator of the heavens and the Earth, Lord and Sovereign of all things, I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You. I take refuge in You from the evil of my soul and from the evil and shirk of the devil, and from committing wrong against my soul or bringing such upon another Muslim.’

(There is no one more patient with something harmful that he hears than Allah. They attribute a son to Him, while it is He Who gives them sustenance and cures them.) Al-Bukhari also recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,

«قَالَ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ: كَذَّبَنِي ابْنُ آدَمَ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ ذَلِكَ، وَشَتَمَنِي وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ ذَلِكَ، فَأَمَّا تَكْذِيبُهُ إِيَّايَ فَقَوْلُهُ: لَنْ يُعِيدَنِي كَمَا بَدَأَنِي، وَلَيْسَ أَوَّلُ الْخَلْقِ بِأَهْوَنَ عَلَيَّ مِنْ إِعَادَتِهِ، وَأَمَّا شَتْمُهُ إِيَّايَ فَقَوْلُهُ: اتَّخَذَ اللهُ وَلَدًا، وَأَنَا الْأَحَدُ الصَّمَدُ، لَمْ أَلِدْ وَلَمْ أُولَدْ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لِي كُفُوًا أَحَد»

(Allah the Mighty and Majestic says, "The Son of Adam denies Me and he has no right to do so, and he abuses Me and he has no right to do so. In reference to his denial of Me, it is his saying: `He (Allah) will never re-create me like He created me before.' But the re-creation of him is easier than his original creation. As for his cursing Me, it is his saying: `Allah has taken a son.' But I am the One, the Self-Sufficient Master. I do not give birth, nor was I born, and there is none comparable to Me.'')
Reply

Asiyah3
10-20-2009, 07:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by bibish
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

I am a convert to Islam and I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity. Coming from a non-muslim background - all my family are not muslim - this is very difficult to accept. I can't imagine the people I love ending up in hell and not being in paradise. imsad Most of my friends are also not muslim and are atheists, Christians and Hindus and are the most loveliest people you could imagine. I read that adults who have not heard the message, however, i.e. the testimony of faith, will not be held accountable. What if they hear about islam on the news and never hear the shahada or what if I talk to them about islam in general and just never mention that? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thank you :statisfie
Uh, I wrote you a response already, but accidentally my brother deleted it.
Anyway I'll write some of it again.

As-salaamu aleykum

The question you asked is something I've also thought about. I won't tell you "Don't worry" etc. Coz' I can't describe nor even imagine the torment of Hell or the severe punishment of Allah. He has warned us a lot.


You know that Allaah is more merciful towards you and all His slaves than a mother to her child. It was narrated from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) that some prisoners were brought to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and there was a woman among the prisoners who was searching for someone. When she found a small boy among the prisoners, she clasped him to her and started to breastfeed him. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to us: “Do you think that this woman would throw her child into the fire?” We said: No, by Allaah, she would never do that if she is able not to. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is more merciful towards His slaves than this woman is towards her child.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5999) and Muslim (2754).


Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (916) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I asked my Lord for permission to pray for forgiveness for my mother, and He did not permit me. I asked Him for permission to visit her grave, and He granted me permission.”

In Saheeh Muslim it is narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has one hundred parts of mercy, of which He sent down one between the jinn, mankind, the animals and the insects, by means of which they are compassionate and merciful to one another, and by means of which wild animals are kind to their offspring. And Allaah has kept back ninety-nine parts of mercy with which to be merciful to His slaves of the Day of Resurrection.”




Allah is just towards his slaves. And no one will be wronged, Allah's mercy is truly great. What more to say...



The mercy of Allaah is what will admit His believing slaves to Paradise on the Day of Resurrection. No one will ever enter Paradise because of his deeds alone, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No one’s deeds will ever admit him to Paradise.” They said, “Not even you, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “No, not even me, unless Allaah shower me with His Mercy. So try to be near to perfection. And no one should wish for death; he is either doing good so he will do more of that, or he is doing wrong so he may repent.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5349; Muslim, 7042


The hadith's source is from islam-qa


May Allah grant the whole Ummah guidance
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Nur-ud-Dean
10-20-2009, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Those who never heard of Islam , I read a hadiht about them like this : some will tell God , we never heard of you ; if we did , we surely would have accepted the truth. Then God will order them to jump in to the fire . Those who will obey the order will be forgiven . Those who won't follow , God will tell them u didn't obey order that u got from me directly; So , how can u claim that in the world u would have obeyed my orders if that u got from others ?

And Allah Knows Best.
Remember that there is a difference between never hearing of Islam, and never hearing of God. I like to think that even if I went through my life ignorant of Islam then I would try to be religious and to know God regardless. I firmly believe that we have the knowledge of Truth within us; it's only a question of listening with an open heart.

The way I understand it is that we choose our position in the next life. If we try to get close to Allah in this life, we will be close to Him in the next. If we choose to stay distant (through atheism or bad deeds), then we will be far from Him in the next life. To be close to Allah is to know his mercy, to be far is to know his wrath.
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Nur-ud-Dean
10-20-2009, 09:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
I've heard this point being mentioned before, and I can't make sense of it. Understanding something like Islam is not an on/off switch, it's something that develops over time. So when is the cutoff point? Presumably no human can give an answer to this - Allahu allim, I suppose.

If Islam was true, I would be expecting to go to hell. I've been aware of Islam for many years, and I've been reading about it regularly for about ten years, and I've never felt the slightest urge to convert. In fact, the more I've learned about it, the less likely that has become.

Peace
Everyone is different, in their understanding and situation. I believed in God; I researched Islam to the point where I understood the essentials, took stock, and decided that I believed.

Do you believe in God, friend?


Nur-ud-Dean

[link removed]
Reply

czgibson
10-20-2009, 10:06 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Nur-ud-Dean
Everyone is different, in their understanding and situation. I believed in God; I researched Islam to the point where I understood the essentials, took stock, and decided that I believed.

Do you believe in God, friend?
Being an atheist, no, I don't. I don't ever remember a time when I believed in God. The first time my mother took me to church at the age of around five I remember having thoughts along the lines of "this must be some kind of joke, or some kind of game". I decided to keep an open mind about it until I became an adult, when I decided that I hadn't yet discovered any compelling reason to change my initial response.

Nur-ud-Dean

[link removed]
You seem like a helpful person, Nur-ud-Dean. Welcome to the forum. :)

Peace
Reply

Nur-ud-Dean
10-21-2009, 12:22 AM
Thanks for the welcome. Two questions spring to mind.

1. Are your objections to faith based more upon dislike of the religions you know of, or simple belief that there is no God?

2. Why does such a person as yourself make 10,000 posts on an Islamic forum (ot meant in a negative way, I'm curious)?
Reply

tresbien
10-21-2009, 12:14 PM
czgibson
I do not ask you to study islam for other ten years but to ponder over this video .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGhr...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvW-q...eature=channel

Believe me God will not fail you.You are now taking the right and secure path.If God did not want u good, u would not be here on this forum.
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tresbien
10-22-2009, 01:09 PM
Pls ponder over this supplication AND WATCH THIS DOCUMENTARY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfwEaCY5D7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m98_Q9mbXiI
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tresbien
10-22-2009, 09:38 PM
he miracle, the Quran

So brothers and sisters, to increase your iman
Read the miracle, read the Quran

Here's a fact for the ones who are keener
92 surahs revealed in Mecca, 22 in Medinah
Read it every day and to read it be proud
The word Quran means to read it aloud

Read the book from the Lord of the worlds
Over 6,000 verses and 77,000 words
Read with respect, no disturbance, no laughters
from Al Fatiha to An Naas, all 114 chapters

And in it 14 times you need to prostrate
And say Allah ho Akbar, meaning Allah is great
In this book, 25 prophets are mentioned by name
Who came at different times but their message was the same

This miracle was revealed over a 23 year span
Sent from Allah (swt), to an angel and then to a man
That man was Muhammed (saws), the best of creation
And we are proud to be part of his nation
He gave us a message and that was Islam
So read this miracle, read the Quran
Reply

Khaldun
10-23-2009, 03:56 AM
Hi

czgibson you have touched on a very important point and that is, even though a person might study islam for ten years or more that does not make him a muslim and the cut off point as you put it, is when a person accepts islam as the ultimate truth and pronounces the shahaada.

And the fact that the more you read about Islam leads to you becoming further away from accepting it, then that is not something new. I am sure you have read the Qur'aan at some point during the ten years and you might remember the verse:

And whenever a chapter is revealed [of the Qur'aan], there are some of them who say: Which of you has it strengthened in faith?

Then as for those who believe, it strengthens them in faith and they rejoice.

And as for those in whose hearts is a disease
[refering to them not accepting the truth], it adds disbelief to their disbelief and they die while they are unbelievers.
Reply

tresbien
10-23-2009, 02:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All are equal.The poor, the rich , the minister, the president, the employer; employee.All are wearing white clothe and supplicating to THE LORD OF THE WORLDS.
THE PICTURE IS THE BEST EVIDENCE.
IN THAT DAY ALL SINS ARE DELETED AND U ARE A NEWBORN
THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MOHAMED HIS MESSANGER
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3t...-arafat_events
Reply

OurIslamic
10-23-2009, 03:05 PM
We don't know exactly who is going to hell or heaven.
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tresbien
10-24-2009, 01:03 PM
The Forelock


Shaikh Abdel Majeed Elzindani said that I was reading the Quranic verse “Let him beware! If he desist not, we will Drag him by the forelock, A lying, sinful forelock” [96-15] the forelock is the forehead. He used to supplicate and ask Allah to reveal the meaning of “A lying, sinful forelock” I meditated about this verse for then years but I remained perplexed. I referred to interpretation books.

An interpretor says by lying forelock but it has a metaphorically used to point at the lying person himself as he is the source of lying. However, a research prepared by a famous Canadian scientist dealt with the forehead. The scientist was a specialist in the science of brain, desiccation and embryology. He introduced his research in a medical conference held in Cairo. A doctor and his wife were attending that conference. When the wife heard “A lying, sinful forelock” its Arabic transliteration is “Naseyaton Kazibaton Khateaa” The interpretors say, “Naseyato Kazibin Khatein then she inquired about the last “h” and asked why it is missing. I said to myself it is missing “h” which has perplexed me for ten years. When we come back to the research we find that the Canadian scientist stated that it was only since five years that the part of the brain which is directly under the forehead responsible for fabricating lies and mistakes. It also helps the eyes to see and the ears to hear.
It is also the center which takes decisions: If this part of the brain is cut, then the person will lose his independent will and become incapable of taking decisions. He will also loose control over himself. The Canadian scientist said that it was only since fifty years that we have come to know that it is the part of the brain which is behind the forehead which helps man to take decisions. Then, who is the real power behind taking decisions? We know that it is the human soul which takes decisions.

It is the souls which sees but the eye is the seeing sense. It is the soul which hears but the ear is the hearing sense. The part of the brain at the forehead takes the decision and it is the quality of out decision which we have taken that affect our intentions and deeds. Therefore addressing and threatening wrong doers the Quran says, “We will drag him by the forelock, A lying, sinful part. Today science advanced and discovered that the “part’ of the brain which is located at the forelock in human being is smaller and weaker in Animals. In animals also this part controls the animals.
It is the center that helps the animal. Therefore, in another Quranic Aaya Allah says, “There is not a moving creature, but He hath Grasp of its forelock” [11:56]. Scientist found this fact after a careful analysis and studies of the brain. But Quran and before fourteen centuries explained this fact in Quran. The saying of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) also confirmed this. He says, “O Allah, I am your servant and the son of your servant, my forelock is under your control” the forelock is the center of control and guidance. Therefore, this center of control and guidance must abide by religion and the reaching of Quran. It has to obey Allah. Therefore, to make it obedient Allah ordered Man to pray a bow down the forelock in every prayer.

To make sujood as a sign of obedience to Allah. There may be also a close relation between this bowing down of the forelock while we pray has a positive impact on our behavior. It may be behind helping us to adopt a straightforward behavior. Quran says, “And establish regular prayer: for prayer restraints from shameful and unjust deeds” [29:45] Source: “The Age of faith has dawned” By: Shaikh Abdel Majeed Elzindani.




http://www.science4islam.com/index.a...e&act=da&id=95
Reply

tresbien
10-27-2009, 09:14 PM
how are you?I do not think that Hoopoe is wiser than you.Should we learn from it
and (Sulayman) said: "What is the matter that I see not the hoopoe Or is he among the absentees'') One day `Abdullah bin `Abbas told a similar story, and among the people was a man from the Khawarij whose name was Nafi` bin Al-Azraq, who often used to raise objections to Ibn `Abbas. He said to him, "Stop, O Ibn `Abbas; you will be defeated (in argument) today!'' Ibn `Abbas said: "Why'' Nafi` said: "You are telling us that the hoopoe can see water beneath the ground, but any boy can put seed in a trap and cover the trap with dirt, and the hoopoe will come and take the seed, so the boy can catch him in the trap.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "If it was not for the fact that this man would go and tell others that he had defeated Ibn `Abbas in argument, I would not even answer.'' Then he said to Nafi`: "Woe to you! When the decree strikes a person, his eyes become blind and he loses all caution.'' Nafi` said: "By Allah I will never dispute with you concerning anything in the Qur'an. ''

[لأُعَذِّبَنَّهُ عَذَاباً شَدِيداً]

(I will surely punish him with a severe torment) Al-A`mash said, narrating from Al-Minhal bin `Amr from Sa`id that Ibn `Abbas said: "He meant, by plucking his feathers.'' `Abdullah bin Shaddad said: "By plucking his feathers and exposing him to the sun.'' This was also the view of more than one of the Salaf, that it means plucking his feathers and leaving him exposed to be eaten by ants.

[أَوْ لاّذْبَحَنَّهُ]

(or slaughter him,) means, killing him.

[أَوْ لَيَأْتِيَنِّى بِسُلْطَـنٍ مُّبِينٍ]

(unless he brings me a clear reason.) i.e., a valid excuse. Sufyan bin `Uyaynah and `Abdullah bin Shaddad said: "When the hoopoe came back, the other birds said to him: "What kept you Sulayman has vowed to shed your blood.'' The hoopoe said: "Did he make any exception [did he say `unless']'' They said, "Yes, he said:

[لأُعَذِّبَنَّهُ عَذَاباً شَدِيداً أَوْ لاّذْبَحَنَّهُ أَوْ لَيَأْتِيَنِّى بِسُلْطَـنٍ مُّبِينٍ ]

(I will surely punish him with a severe torment or slaughter him, unless he brings me a clear reason.) The hoopoe said, "Then I am saved.''

[فَمَكَثَ غَيْرَ بَعِيدٍ فَقَالَ أَحَطتُ بِمَا لَمْ تُحِطْ بِهِ وَجِئْتُكَ مِن سَبَإٍ بِنَبَإٍ يَقِينٍ - إِنِّى وَجَدتُّ امْرَأَةً تَمْلِكُهُمْ وَأُوتِيَتْ مِن كُلِّ شَىْءٍ وَلَهَا عَرْشٌ عَظِيمٌ - وَجَدتُّهَا وَقَوْمَهَا يَسْجُدُونَ لِلشَّمْسِ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَـنُ أَعْمَـلَهُمْ فَصَدَّهُمْ عَنِ السَّبِيلِ فَهُمْ لاَ يَهْتَدُونَ - أَلاَّ يَسْجُدُواْ للَّهِ الَّذِى يُخْرِجُ الْخَبْءَ فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا تُخْفُونَ وَمَا تُعْلِنُونَ - اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ رَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ ]

(22. But (the hoopoe) stayed not long, he said: "I have grasped which you have not grasped and I have come to you from Saba' with true news.'') (23. "I found a woman ruling over them, she has been given all things, and she has a great throne.'') (24. "I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah, and Shaytan has made their deeds fair seeming to them to prevent them from the way, so they have no guidance.'') (25. So they do not prostrate themselves before Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what you conceal and what you reveal.) (26. Allah, La ilaha illa Huwa, the Lord of the Supreme Throne!'')


How the Hoopoe came before Sulayman and told Him about Saba'

Allah says:

[فَمَكَثَ غَيْرَ بَعِيدٍ]

(But (the hoopoe) stayed not long,) meaning, he was absent for only a short time. Then he came and said to Sulayman:

[أَحَطتُ بِمَا لَمْ تُحِطْ بِهِ]

(I have grasped which you have not grasped) meaning, `I have come to know something that you and your troops do not know.'

[وَجِئْتُكَ مِن سَبَإٍ بِنَبَإٍ يَقِينٍ]

(and I have come to you from Saba' with true news.) meaning, with true and certain news. Saba' (Sheba) refers to Himyar, they were a dynasty in Yemen. Then the hoopoe said:

[إِنِّى وَجَدتُّ امْرَأَةً تَمْلِكُهُمْ]

(I found a woman ruling over them,) Al-Hasan Al-Basri said, "This is Bilqis bint Sharahil, the queen of Saba'.'' Allah's saying:

[وَأُوتِيَتْ مِن كُلِّ شَىْءٍ]

(she has been given all things,) means, all the conveniences of this world that a powerful monarch could need.

[وَلَهَا عَرْشٌ عَظِيمٌ]

(and she has a great throne.) meaning, a tremendous chair adorned with gold and different kinds of jewels and pearls. The historians said, "This throne was in a great, strong palace which was high and firmly constructed. In it there were three hundred and sixty windows on the east side, and a similar number on the west, and it was constructed in such a way that each day when the sun rose it would shine through one window, and when it set it would shine through the opposite window. And the people used to prostrate to the sun morning and evening. This is why the hoopoe said:

[وَجَدتُّهَا وَقَوْمَهَا يَسْجُدُونَ لِلشَّمْسِ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَـنُ أَعْمَـلَهُمْ فَصَدَّهُمْ عَنِ السَّبِيلِ]

(I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah, and Shaytan has made their deeds fair seeming to them, and has prevented them from the way,) meaning, from the way of truth,

[فَهُمْ لاَ يَهْتَدُونَ]

(so they have no guidance.) Allah's saying:

[وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَـنُ أَعْمَـلَهُمْ فَصَدَّهُمْ عَنِ السَّبِيلِ فَهُمْ لاَ يَهْتَدُونَأَلاَّ يَسْجُدُواْ للَّهِ]

(and Shaytan has made their deeds fair seeming to them, and has prevented them from the way, so they have no guidance, so they do not prostrate themselves before Allah.) They do not know the way of truth, prostrating only before Allah alone and not before anything that He has created, whether heavenly bodies or anything else. This is like the Ayah:

[وَمِنْ ءَايَـتِهِ الَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ لاَ تَسْجُدُواْ لِلشَّمْسِ وَلاَ لِلْقَمَرِ وَاسْجُدُواْ لِلَّهِ الَّذِى خَلَقَهُنَّ إِن كُنتُمْ إِيَّاهُ تَعْبُدُونَ ]

(And from among His signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate yourselves not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate yourselves to Allah Who created them, if you indeed worship Him.) (41:37)

[الَّذِى يُخْرِجُ الْخَبْءَ فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ]

(Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth,) `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said: "He knows everything that is hidden in the heavens and on earth.'' This was also the view of `Ikrimah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Qatadah and others. His saying:

[وَيَعْلَمُ مَا تُخْفُونَ وَمَا تُعْلِنُونَ]

(and knows what you conceal and what you reveal.) means, He knows what His servants say and do in secret, and what they say and do openly. This is like the Ayah:

[سَوَآءٌ مِّنْكُمْ مَّنْ أَسَرَّ الْقَوْلَ وَمَنْ جَهَرَ بِهِ وَمَنْ هُوَ مُسْتَخْفٍ بِالَّيْلِ وَسَارِبٌ بِالنَّهَارِ ]

(It is the same whether any of you conceals his speech or declares it openly, whether he be hid by night or goes forth freely by day) (13:10). His saying:

[اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ رَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ ]

(Allah, La ilaha illa Huwa, the Lord of the Supreme Throne!) means, He is the One to be called upon, Allah, He is the One other than Whom there is no god, the Lord of the Supreme Throne, and there is none greater than Him in all of creation. Since the hoopoe was calling to what is good, and for people to worship and prostrate to Allah alone, it would have been forbidden to kill him. Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah recorded that Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said that the Prophet forbade killing four kinds of animals: ants, bees, hoopoes and the sparrow hawks. Its chain of narration is Sahih.

[قَالَ سَنَنظُرُ أَصَدَقْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْكَـذِبِينَ - اذْهَب بِّكِتَابِى هَـذَا فَأَلْقِهْ إِلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ تَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ فَانْظُرْ مَاذَا يَرْجِعُونَ - قَالَتْ يأَيُّهَا الْمَلأُ إِنَّى أُلْقِىَ إِلَىَّ كِتَابٌ كَرِيمٌ - إِنَّهُ مِن سُلَيْمَانَ وَإِنَّهُ بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ - أَلاَّ تَعْلُواْ عَلَىَّ وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ ]

(27. (Sulayman) said: "We shall see whether you speak the truth or you are (one) of the liars.'') r(28. "Go you with this letter of mine and deliver it to them, then draw back from them and see what they return.'') (29. She said: "O chiefs! Verily, here is delivered to me a noble letter, '') (30. "Verily, it is from Sulayman, and it (reads): `In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful;') (31. `Be you not exalted against me, but come to me submitting (as Muslims).' '')
ah tells us what Sulayman said to the hoopoe when he told him about the people of Saba' and their queen:

[قَالَ سَنَنظُرُ أَصَدَقْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْكَـذِبِينَ ]

((Sulayman) said: "We shall see whether you speak the truth or you are (one) of the liars.'') meaning, `are you telling the truth'

[أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْكَـذِبِينَ]

(or you are (one) of the liars.) meaning, `or are you telling a lie in order to save yourself from the threat I made against you'

[اذْهَب بِّكِتَابِى هَـذَا فَأَلْقِهْ إِلَيْهِمْ ثُمَّ تَوَلَّ عَنْهُمْ فَانْظُرْ مَاذَا يَرْجِعُونَ ]

(Go you with this letter of mine and deliver it to them then draw back from them and see what they return.) Sulayman wrote a letter to Bilqis and her people and gave it to the hoopoe to deliver. It was said that he carried it on his wings, as is the way with birds, or that he carried it in his beak. He went to their land and found the palace of Bilqis, then he went to her private chambers and threw the letter through a small window, then he stepped to one side out of good manners. Bilqis was amazed and confused when she saw that, then she went and picked up the letter, opened its seal and read it. The letter said:

[إِنَّهُ مِن سُلَيْمَانَ وَإِنَّهُ بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ - أَلاَّ تَعْلُواْ عَلَىَّ وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ ]

(it is from Sulayman, and it (reads): `In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful; Be you not exalted against me, but come to me submitting (as Muslims).') So she gathered her commanders and ministers and the leaders of her land, and said to them:

[يأَيُّهَا الْمَلأُ إِنَّى أُلْقِىَ إِلَىَّ كِتَابٌ كَرِيمٌ]

("O chiefs! Verily, here is delivered to me a noble letter.'') She described it as such because of the wondrous things she had seen, that it was delivered by a bird who threw it to her, then stood aside out of good manners. This was something that no king could do. Then she read the letter to them:

[إِنَّهُ مِن سُلَيْمَانَ وَإِنَّهُ بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَـنِ الرَّحِيمِ - أَلاَّ تَعْلُواْ عَلَىَّ وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ ]

(Verily, it is from Sulayman, and it (reads): `In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful; Be you not exalted against me, but come to me submitting (as Muslims).') Thus they knew that it was from Allah's Prophet Sulayman, upon him be peace, and that they could not match him. This letter was the utmost in brevity and eloquence, coming straight to the point.

[أَلاَّ تَعْلُواْ عَلَىَّ]

(Be you not exalted against me,) Qatadah said: "Do not be arrogant with me.

[وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ]

(but come to me submitting (as Muslims). )'' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said: "Do not refuse or be too arrogant to come to me

[وَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ]

(but come to me submitting (as Muslims).)''

Bilqis consults with Her Chiefs

When she read Sulayman's letter to them and consulted with them about this news, she said:

[يأَيُّهَا الْمَلأ أَفْتُونِى فِى أَمْرِى مَا كُنتُ قَـطِعَةً أَمْراً حَتَّى تَشْهَدُونِ]

("O chiefs! Advise me in (this) case of mine. I decide no case till you are present with me.'') meaning, `until you come together and offer me your advice.'

[قَالُواْ نَحْنُ أُوْلُواْ قُوَّةٍ وَأُولُو بَأْسٍ شَدِيدٍ]

(They said: "We have great strength, and great ability for war...'') They reminded her of their great numbers, preparedness and strength, then they referred the matter to her and said:

[وَالاٌّمْرُ إِلَيْكِ فَانظُرِى مَاذَا تَأْمُرِينَ]

(but it is for you to command; so think over what you will command.) meaning, `we have the power and strength, if you want to go to him and fight him.' The matter is yours to decide, so instruct us as you see fit and we will obey. Ibn `Abbas said: "Bilqis said:

[إِنَّ الْمُلُوكَ إِذَا دَخَلُواْ قَرْيَةً أَفْسَدُوهَا وَجَعَلُواْ أَعِزَّةَ أَهْلِهَآ أَذِلَّةً]

(Verily, kings, when they enter a town, they destroy it and make the most honorable amongst its people the lowest.) And Allah said:

[وَكَذلِكَ يَفْعَلُونَ]

(And thus they do. ) Then she resorted to peaceful means, seeking a truce and trying to placate Sulayman, and said:

[وَإِنِّى مُرْسِلَةٌ إِلَيْهِمْ بِهَدِيَّةٍ فَنَاظِرَةٌ بِمَ يَرْجِعُ الْمُرْسَلُونَ ]

(But verily, I am going to send him a present, and see with what the messengers return.) meaning, `I will send him a gift befitting for one of his status, and will wait and see what his response will be. Perhaps he will accept that and leave us alone, or he will impose a tax which we can pay him every year, so that he will not fight us and wage war against us.' Qatadah said: "May Allah have mercy on her and be pleased with her -- how wise she was as a Muslim and (before that) as an idolator! She understood how gift-giving has a good effect on people.'' Ibn `Abbas and others said: "She said to her people, if he accepts the gift, he is a king, so fight him; but if he does not accept it, he is a Prophet, so follow him.''

[فَلَمَّا جَآءَ سُلَيْمَانَ قَالَ أَتُمِدُّونَنِ بِمَالٍ فَمَآ ءَاتَـنِى اللَّهُ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّآ ءَاتَـكُمْ بَلْ أَنتُمْ بِهَدِيَّتِكُمْ تَفْرَحُونَ - ارْجِعْ إِلَيْهِمْ فَلَنَأْتِيَنَّهُم بِجُنُودٍ لاَّ قِبَلَ لَهُمْ بِهَا وَلَنُخْرِجَنَّهُم مِّنْهَآ أَذِلَّةً وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ ]

(36. So, when (the messengers with the gift) came to Sulayman, he said: "Will you help me in wealth What Allah has given me is better than that which He has given you! Nay, you rejoice in your gift!'') (37. "Go back to them. We verily, shall come to them with armies that they cannot resist, and we shall drive them out from there in disgrace, and they will be abased

The Gift and the Response of Sulayman

More than one of the scholars of Tafsir among the Salaf and others stated that she sent him a huge gift of gold, jewels, pearls and other things. It is apparent that Sulayman, peace be upon him, did not even look at what they brought at all and did not pay any attention to it, but he turned away and said, rebuking them:

[أَتُمِدُّونَنِ بِمَالٍ]

("Will you help me in wealth'') meaning, `are you trying to flatter me with wealth so that I will leave you alone with your Shirk and your kingdom'

[فَمَآ ءَاتَـنِى اللَّهُ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّآ ءَاتَـكُمْ]

(What Allah has given me is better than that which He has given you!) means, `what Allah has given to me of power, wealth and troops, is better than that which you have.'

[بَلْ أَنتُمْ بِهَدِيَّتِكُمْ تَفْرَحُونَ]

(Nay, you rejoice in your gift!) means, `you are the ones who are influenced by gifts and presents; we will accept nothing from you except Islam or the sword.'

[ارْجِعْ إِلَيْهِمْ]

(Go back to them) means, with their gift,

[فَلَنَأْتِيَنَّهُم بِجُنُودٍ لاَّ قِبَلَ لَهُمْ بِهَا]

(We verily, shall come to them with armies that they cannot resist,) they have no power to match them or resist them.

[وَلَنُخْرِجَنَّهُم مِّنْهَآ أَذِلَّةً]

(and we shall drive them out from there in disgrace,) `we shall drive them out in disgrace from their land.'

[وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ]

(and they will be abased.) means, humiliated and expelled. When her messengers came back to her with her undelivered gift, and told her what Sulayman said, she and her people paid heed and obeyed him. She came to him with her troops in submission and humility, honoring Sulayman and intending to follow him in Islam. When Sulayman, peace be upon him, realized that they were coming to him, he rejoiced greatly.

[قَالَ يأَيُّهَا الْمَلأ أَيُّكُمْ يَأْتِينِى بِعَرْشِهَا قَبْلَ أَن يَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ - قَالَ عِفْرِيتٌ مِّن الْجِنِّ أَنَاْ ءَاتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن تَقُومَ مِن مَّقَامِكَ وَإِنِّى عَلَيْهِ لَقَوِىٌّ أَمِينٌ - قَالَ الَّذِى عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَـبِ أَنَاْ ءَاتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ فَلَمَّا رَءَاهُ مُسْتَقِرّاً عِندَهُ قَالَ هَـذَا مِن فَضْلِ رَبِّى لِيَبْلُوَنِى أَءَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ وَمَن شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّى غَنِىٌّ كَرِيمٌ ]

(38. He said: "O chiefs! Which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me surrendering themselves in obedience (as Muslims)'') (39. An `Ifrit from the Jinn said: "I will bring it to you before you rise from your place. And verily, I am indeed strong and trustworthy for such work.'') (40. One with whom was knowledge of the Scripture, said: "I will bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!'' Then when he saw it placed before him, he said: "This is by the grace of my Lord -- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! And whoever is grateful, truly, his gratitude is for himself; and whoever is ungrateful, certainly my Lord is Rich, Bountiful.'')


How the Throne of Bilqis was brought in an Instant

Muhammad bin Ishaq reported from Yazid bin Ruman: "When the messengers returned with word of what Sulayman said, she said: `By Allah, I knew he was more than a king, and that we have no power to match him, and that we can gain nothing by being stubborn with him. So, she sent word to him saying: "I am coming to you with the leaders of my people to see what you will instruct us to do and what you are calling us to of your religion.'' Then she issued commands that her throne, which was made of gold and inlaid with rubies, chrysolite and pearls, should be placed in the innermost of seven rooms, one within the other, and all the doors should be locked. Then she told her deputy whom she was leaving in charge, "Take care of my people and my throne, and do not let anyone approach it or see it until I come back to you.'' Then she set off to meet Sulayman with twelve thousand of her commanders from the leaders of Yemen, under each of whose command were many thousands of men. Sulayman sent the Jinn to bring him news of her progress and route every day and night, then when she drew near, he gathered together the Jinns and humans who were under his control and said:

[يأَيُّهَا الْمَلأ أَيُّكُمْ يَأْتِينِى بِعَرْشِهَا قَبْلَ أَن يَأْتُونِى مُسْلِمِينَ]

(O chiefs! Which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me surrendering themselves in obedience (as Muslims)).''

[قَالَ عِفْرِيتٌ مِّن الْجِنِّ]

(An `Ifrit from the Jinn said: ) Mujahid said, "A giant Jinn.'' Abu Salih said, "It was as if he was a mountain.''

[أَنَاْ ءَاتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن تَقُومَ مِن مَّقَامِكَ]

(I will bring it to you before you rise from your place.) Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Before you get up from where you are sitting.'' As-Suddi and others said: "He used to sit to pass judgements and rulings over the people, and to eat, from the beginning of the day until noon.''

[وَإِنِّى عَلَيْهِ لَقَوِىٌّ أَمِينٌ]

(And verily, I am indeed strong and trustworthy for such work.) Ibn `Abbas said: "Strong enough to carry it and trustworthy with the jewels it contains. Sulayman, upon him be peace, said, "I want it faster than that.'' From this it seems that Sulayman wanted to bring this throne as a demonstration of the greatness of the power and authority that Allah had bestowed upon him and the troops that He had subjugated to him. Power such as had never been given to anyone else, before or since, so that this would furnish proof of his prophethood before Bilqis and her people, because this would be a great and wondrous thing, if he brought her throne as if he were in her country, before they could come to it, although it was hidden and protected by so many locked doors. When Sulayman said, "I want it faster than that,

[قَالَ الَّذِى عِندَهُ عِلْمٌ مِّنَ الْكِتَـبِ]

(One with whom was knowledge of the Scripture said: ) Ibn `Abbas said, "This was Asif, the scribe of Sulayman.'' It was also narrated by Muhammad bin Ishaq from Yazid bin Ruman that he was Asif bin Barkhiya' and he was a truthful believer who knew the Greatest Name of Allah. Qatadah said: "He was a believer among the humans, and his name was Asif.''

[أَنَاْ ءَاتِيكَ بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن يَرْتَدَّ إِلَيْكَ طَرْفُكَ]

(I will bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!) Meaning, lift your gaze and look as far as you can, and before you get tired and blink, you will find it before you. Then he got up, performed ablution and prayed to Allah, may He be exalted. Mujahid said: "He said, O Owner of majesty and honor.'' When Sulayman and his chiefs saw it before them,

[قَالَ هَـذَا مِن فَضْلِ رَبِّى]

(he said: "This is by the grace of my Lord...'') meaning, `this is one of the blessings which Allah has bestowed upon me.'

[لِيَبْلُوَنِى أَءَشْكُرُ أَمْ أَكْفُرُ وَمَن شَكَرَ فَإِنَّمَا يَشْكُرُ لِنَفْسِهِ]

(to test whether I am grateful or ungrateful! And whoever is grateful, truly, his gratitude is for himself;) This is like the Ayat:

[مَّنْ عَمِلَ صَـلِحاً فَلِنَفْسِهِ وَمَنْ أَسَآءَ فَعَلَيْهَا]

(Whosoever does righteous good deed, it is for himself; and whosoever does evil, it is against himself.) (41:46)

[وَمَنْ عَمِلَ صَـلِحاً فَلاًّنفُسِهِمْ يَمْهَدُونَ]

(and whosoever does righteous good deed, then such will prepare a good place for themselves.) (30:44).

[وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ رَبِّى غَنِىٌّ كَرِيمٌ]

(and whoever is ungrateful, certainly my Lord is Rich, Bountiful.) He has no need of His servants or their worship.

[كَرِيمٌ]

(Bountiful) He is Bountiful in and of Himself, even if no one were to worship Him. His greatness does not depend on anyone. This is like what Musa said: p

[إِن تَكْفُرُواْ أَنتُمْ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لَغَنِىٌّ حَمِيدٌ]

(If you disbelieve, you and all on earth together, then verily, Allah is Rich, Owner of all praise.) (14:8). It is recorded in Sahih Muslim:

«يَقُولُ اللهُ تَعَالَى: يَا عِبَادِي لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَتْقَى قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ مِنْكُمْ مَا زَادَ ذَلِكَ فِي مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي لَوْ أَنَّ أَوَّلَكُمْ وَآخِرَكُمْ وَإِنْسَكُمْ وَجِنَّكُمْ كَانُوا عَلَى أَفْجَرِ قَلْبِ رَجُلٍ مِنْكُمْ مَا نَقَصَ ذَلِكَ مِنْ مُلْكِي شَيْئًا. يَا عِبَادِي إِنَّمَا هِيَ أَعْمَالُكُمْ أُحْصِيهَا لَكُمْ ثُمَّ أُوَفِّيكُمْ إِيَّاهَا فَمَنْ وَجَدَ خَيْرًا فَلْيَحْمَدِ اللهَ،وَمَنْ وَجَدَ غَيْرَ ذَلِكَ فَلَا يَلُومَنَّ إِلَّا نَفْسَه»

(Allah, may He be exalted, says: "O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, mankind and Jinn alike, were all to be as pious as the most pious among you, that would not add to My dominion in the slightest. O My servants, if the first of you and the last of you, mankind and Jinn alike, were all to be as evil as the most evil one among you, that would not detract from My dominion in the slightest. O My servants, these are deeds which I am recording for you, and I will judge you according to them, so whoever finds something good, let him praise Allah, and whoever finds otherwise, let him blame no one but himself.'')

[قَالَ نَكِّرُواْ لَهَا عَرْشَهَا نَنظُرْ أَتَهْتَدِى أَمْ تَكُونُ مِنَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَهْتَدُونَ - فَلَمَّا جَآءَتْ قِيلَ أَهَكَذَا عَرْشُكِ قَالَتْ كَأَنَّهُ هُوَ وَأُوتِينَا الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهَا وَكُنَّا مُسْلِمِينَ - وَصَدَّهَا مَا كَانَت تَّعْبُدُ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ إِنَّهَا كَانَتْ مِن قَوْمٍ كَـفِرِينَ - قِيلَ لَهَا ادْخُلِى الصَّرْحَ فَلَمَّا رَأَتْهُ حَسِبَتْهُ لُجَّةً وَكَشَفَتْ عَن سَاقَيْهَا قَالَ إِنَّهُ صَرْحٌ مُّمَرَّدٌ مِّن قَوارِيرَ قَالَتْ رَبِّ إِنِّى ظَلَمْتُ نَفْسِى وَأَسْلَمْتُ مَعَ سُلَيْمَـنَ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَـلَمِينَ ]

(41. He said: "Disguise her throne for her that we may see whether she will be guided, or she will be one of those not guided.'') (42. So when she came, it was said, "Is your throne like this'' She said: "As though it were the very same.'' And he said, "Knowledge was bestowed on us before her, and we had submitted to Allah (as Muslims).'') (43. And Saddaha that which she used to worship besides Allah has prevented her (from Islam), for she was of a disbelieving people.) (44. It was said to her: "Enter As-Sarh,'' but when she saw it, she thought it was a pool, and she (tucked up her clothes) uncovering her legs. Sulayman said: "Verily, it is a Sarh Mumarrad of Qawarir.'' She said: "My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, and I submit, together with Sulayman to Allah, the Lord of all that exits.'')

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=27&tid=38297
Reply

languagemaniac
10-28-2009, 11:50 AM
peace all people. I want to say I have become a muslim as well. ı want to share my opinions on this. Islam means submission to only one God. as far as I understand from my experiences and knowledge, one does not need to believe in quran necessarily.the proof is the verse below:

Allah does not forgive shirk.except shirk , he forgives whoever he wills.Shirk means that you believe only one god but on the other you accept another deity besides Allah.

On the other hand, atheists too may be forgiven by God.Allah knows best.As far as I understand from quran and hadiths, if one person OBVIOUSLY perceives the truth and rejects the truth trying to hide the truth ( kufr in arabic) then in that case, he/she may be subject to retribution.

ALLAHU ALEM. ALLAH KNOWS BEST.
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czgibson
10-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Nur-ud-Dean
1. Are your objections to faith based more upon dislike of the religions you know of, or simple belief that there is no God?
The belief that there is no god is my main objection to faith. Religion has always seemed to me to be something self-evidently man-made.

2. Why does such a person as yourself make 10,000 posts on an Islamic forum (ot meant in a negative way, I'm curious)?
I think you must be looking at my rep points. I haven't reached 3000 posts at the time of writing.

I've been asked this question before, as you'd expect, and my answer is always the same: I think that the situation the world is in now means it's more important than ever that Muslims and non-Muslims talk to each other. I'm not here because I'm thinking of converting to Islam, so to all the people who've posted dawah material, thank you, I know you mean well, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen.

Peace
Reply

Afg
10-28-2009, 12:57 PM
It is strange that despite the many proofs, some still remain the same. We can die any moment, so better to make use of our time before it is too late. Before it is too late, when you will be questioned on that day, and it will be too late to repent. But i know they don't believe in this despite the proofs.
Reply

Eric H
10-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Thinker;

This is one main of the reasons why I rejected Catholicism

That is unjust and God cannot be unjust.
This reminds me of a joke our priest told us recently.

A Hindu goes up to heaven, and St. Peter said, my friend I will show you around all the mansions were every one now lives.

As they walked St Peter said, this is the mansion were all the Muslims live, further on he said, this is were all the agnostics live. St. Peter warned the Hindu, when we walk past the next mansion we must duck down behind the wall and keep quiet.

Why said the Hindu?

St. Peter replied, the Catholics live in that mansion, and they think they are the only ones in heaven…………

None of us can comprehend how God will judge every individual. Sometimes I feel we base our own human nature on how we believe God judges, if we believe God hates some group, then we can hate them.

If we believe that God can be merciful to all people then we should be merciful to all people also, that’s a scary challenge.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
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Eric H
10-28-2009, 01:37 PM
Greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

I think that the situation the world is in now means it's more important than ever that Muslims and non-Muslims talk to each other
I agree with you totally, but I feel the problem is human nature, not God. We often confuse religion with God, and I often feel that many of us do not bring glory to God, in the way we treat each other.

I have just come back from Jerusalem and hope to start a thread soon, ‘Searching for God in Jerusalem’ There are some sites that are sacred to all three Abrahamic religions, and as you can imagine, this causes us all problems.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric
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muslimahpoet
10-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Salam Alaikum,

One thing a sister once told me that as a convert I have held very dear to heart is "Follow what you feel is right inside not what other's tell you... it's what is inside that guided you to Islam, it will guide you along the right path of Islam if you let it." Keep in mind that their are over 70 something sects of Muslims... only 1 will go to Jennah so all of these Muslims who claim this or that... what are their words really worth? Don't let what people say get to you, Always ask for Quranic verses and hadith that are 100% true to support it or else tell them to shut up and tune them out and don't read what they type... it's what is best for a convert or you will go mad trying to sort threw those who where born Muslim, claim they know it all yet are of the worst of them... Also keep in mind that Allah is the judge, not man and sometimes it is one of those things that only Allah can judge... for example my great grandmother died Christian yet her teachings to me is what made me so comfortable with Islam... so was she some how a Muslim inside but just lacked knowledge of Islam? I would like to think so but Allah is her judge, if I had my way she would be in Jennah as she was the nicest and best of people who gave to charity, fed hungry mouths from her garden, gave money to poor, prayed to God and did not do bad things although was not perfect... but if Allah chooses for some reason to send this woman who I dearly love to the hell, then their must be something in her evil that my love for her would not have allowed me to see and I have to trust Allah to be the rightful judge of her. So really, we have this Arabic phrase "Allah Alim" only Allah knows... that’s what I go by on this issue... but I am also a convert and still seeking education so just take this as advice and I hope it is good advice.

Best hopes for you and Congrats on your conversion to Islam!!!
Heather


format_quote Originally Posted by bibish
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah.

I am a convert to Islam and I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity. Coming from a non-muslim background - all my family are not muslim - this is very difficult to accept. I can't imagine the people I love ending up in hell and not being in paradise. imsad Most of my friends are also not muslim and are atheists, Christians and Hindus and are the most loveliest people you could imagine. I read that adults who have not heard the message, however, i.e. the testimony of faith, will not be held accountable. What if they hear about islam on the news and never hear the shahada or what if I talk to them about islam in general and just never mention that? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Thank you :statisfie
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JaffaCake
10-29-2009, 04:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by bibish
I am a convert to Islam and I am finding it difficult with the idea that non-muslims will go to hell for eternity. Coming from a non-muslim background - all my family are not muslim - this is very difficult to accept. I can't imagine the people I love ending up in hell and not being in paradise.
This was always going to be a problem wasn't it?

If God really exist and has some kind of heaven/hell system, someone you love was always going to lose out regardless of whether you follow Islam, Catholicism or Asatru. If God exists and has a set of rules that he expects you to follow in the form of a religion, then only one of the religions can be true (or none, perhaps we don't yet know the real rules or they were lost). At best, 25% of humanity get a reasonable chance of paradise, and the rest must either get a good review or spend all eternity having their skin burnt off repeatedly.

On top of this you might have a dilemma related to the previous discussion about 'receiving' the message.

If you believe sincerely that Islam is the one true divine religion, you would obviously want to share that with the people you love. Therefore, you try to give your family the correct message in the hope that they will convert, but if they do not accept it you have practically guaranteed their fate in hell.
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glo
10-29-2009, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JaffaCake

If you believe sincerely that Islam is the one true divine religion, you would obviously want to share that with the people you love. Therefore, you try to give your family the correct message in the hope that they will convert, but if they do not accept it you have practically guaranteed their fate in hell.
You seem to be suggesting that bibish is playing an active part in condemning her non-Muslim friends and family members to hell. If that's what you are implying, then I disagree with you.
Bibish has no active part in this.

If the Islamic (or any other) human understanding of hell is true; and if it is really how God has destined it to be; and if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then nothing bibish says, does or believes will change it.

I am sorry that bibish is struggling with this concept. Many believers do.
I don't think adding to her fear and guilt is going to be helpful to anybody.
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Raphael
10-29-2009, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tresbien
czgibson and thinker
Seek refuge in ALLAH from satan.Raise u hand and supplicate to him with u heart for guidance.Say to him ALLAH open my breast to u.I am weak and confused.Do not let me down.He will not fail you.He is the hearer and seer.

Funnily enough I heard a Christian guy say words to this effect (replace Allah with Jesus), before his "miraculous" conversion to Christianity!
Reply

tresbien
10-29-2009, 10:11 PM
what a beautiful site
http://www.answering-christianity.com/
Reply

tresbien
10-29-2009, 10:14 PM
=Raphael;
The answers of these questions is at the link below

• Who goes to heaven?.
• The people of Paradise will remember the life of this world.
• Is there anyone in Paradise now?.
• Why are some things forbidden in this world when they are permitted in Paradise?.
• Will children who die young go to Paradise or Hell?.
• If a woman marries more than one husband, which one will she be with in Paradise?.
• Names of Hell.
• Will there be animals in Paradise? .
• Paradise and Hell exist and they will abide so long as Allaah wills them to abide.
• The meaning of the verse, “They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord wills” [Hood 11:107].
• Why will there be more women in Hell than men? .
• What is the ruling on drawing artistic impressions of Paradise.
• How old will people be in Paradise? .
• Objection to the fact that a man will have hoor ‘iyn who will share her husband with her .
• Hell will never cease to exist and neither will its people.
• The degrees and levels of Paradise and Hell, and the deeds that take one to them .
• The people of Hell will abide therein forever .
• What will happen to a woman in Paradise if her husband is one of the people of the Fire?.
• Description of al-hoor al-‘iyn in the Qur’aan and Sunnah.
• How can Iblees be punished with fire when he has been created from it?.
• Is Arabic the language of the people of Paradise?.
• The people of Paradise are free from deformities and physical faults.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/cat/2020
Reply

Raphael
10-29-2009, 11:28 PM
Lol JazakAllah brother for the link, but...how shall I say this, I take Islamqa with a pinch of salt, or should I say bucket?! :X
Reply

czgibson
10-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by tresbien
I'm not sure why you've brought this site up.

Whatever the reason, 'beautiful' definitely isn't a word I would use to describe it. +o(

Peace
Reply

OurIslamic
10-29-2009, 11:44 PM
I beleive in Allah.
Reply

JaffaCake
10-30-2009, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
You seem to be suggesting that bibish is playing an active part in condemning her non-Muslim friends and family members to hell. If that's what you are implying, then I disagree with you.
Bibish has no active part in this.

If the Islamic (or any other) human understanding of hell is true; and if it is really how God has destined it to be; and if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then nothing bibish says, does or believes will change it.
Going by what has previously been stated in this thread, and information elsewhere, people are only excused the hellfire if they have not received the true message.

From On the validity of all religions in the thought of ibn Al-'Arabi and Emir 'Abd al-Qadir: a letter to `Abd al-Matin:
In Ghazali's view, such people are excused until after they have had an opportunity to learn the undistorted truth about Islam (Ghazali: "Faysal al-tafriqa," Majmu'a rasa'il al-Imam al-Ghazali, 3.96). This of course does not alter our own obligation as Muslims to reach them with the da'wa.
Bibish, assuming that she intends to be a good Muslim (otherwise there's no point in us having this discussion) will be passing on the undistorted truth about Islam. This both for personal and religious reasons, 1. she wants her family to go to Paradise and 2. da'wa is an obligation as stated above.
In either case, Allah's mercy exists, though for non-Muslims unreached by the message, it is a question of divine amnesty for their ignorance, not a confirmation of their religions validity. It is worth knowing the difference between these two things, for one's eternal fate depends on it.
If bibish does nothing and her family die as unbelievers having not received the message, they are granted amnesty (or judged some other way).

If bibish passes on the correct message in an attempt to get her family to Paradise, but they reject it, then they go to hell.

Of course she could choose the former and let them play out their lives however they want and things might turn out ok.
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
I don't think adding to her fear and guilt is going to be helpful to anybody.
I think it would be productive if more people pondered on how religion puts you in the position of making choices based on fear and guilt.
Reply

Raphael
10-30-2009, 01:26 AM
The concept of hell is certainly an interesting one! :phew
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tresbien
11-01-2009, 08:05 PM
Do not hesitate, put aside any subjectivity, read away from the influence of others and ward off any whisper and may Allah open your heart.
http://www.http://rasoulallah.net/index_english.asp
Reply

Supreme
11-01-2009, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Raphael
The concept of hell is certainly an interesting one! :phew
Interesting is one word for it...
Reply

tresbien
11-02-2009, 11:33 AM
[QUOTE=czgibson;1236489]Greetings,


I'm not sure why you've brought this site up.

Whatever the reason, 'beautiful' definitely isn't a word I would use to describe it. +o(

PEACE czgibson;
Islam - A World Of Peace And Love

Islam - A World Of Love And Peace

A world where people love to smile,
And send good wishes all the while.
A world where people offer peace,
And good words from them never cease.
A world where people do not hoard,
But give to those who can't afford.
A world where people help defend,
And heal the wounds and try to mend.
A world where people share a gift,
And help the pauper's spirit lift.
A world where people feel no pride,
But live together side by side.
A world where people purify,
And always on their Lord rely.
This world, we have it in our palm.
Dear people, It Is Al - Islam
Reply

tresbien
11-02-2009, 11:38 AM
[QUOTE=Supreme;
The Torments Of Hell

If only you knew the torments of hell
It is the worst of places where anyone could dwell

It is in existence even as we speak
And for its inhabitants the outlook is bleak

On the day of rising, hell will be in view
A terrible sight, if only you knew

It will be brought forward by 70,000 reigns
And 70,000 angels will be on each of those chains

After burning for a thousand years , it’s flames turned white
A thousand more years, now it’s as black as the night

You think the flames are bearable, you’re totally wrong
The flames are of hell are sixty nine times as strong

In a flash it will disintegrate all of your bones
The hellfire will be fuelled by man and stones

The thickness of your skin will greatly increase
Causing your threshold for pain to greatly decrease

The people in hell are there to stay
They will melt to nothing, 70,000 times in a day

70 years it will take, for a stone that is thrown
to hit the bottom of hell and it won’t be alone

the food of hell resembles a devil’s head
and to drink, boiling water and blood bright red

which cuts up the bowels, everything will fall out
the inhabitants of hell will scream and shout

some will be taken out by Almighty Allah’s command
but the polytheists will stay eternally ****ed

take up islam, the only way to succeed
and if you don’t, you’re unfortunate indeed

Brothers and Sisters, Help determine your fate
Once you see Hellfire, It'll be far too late...

Author Unknown
Reply

adriatic82
11-02-2009, 11:40 AM
This topic made me so angry ,who the hell told u that non muslims go to hell,No body goes to hell if they beleive in God and u do good things,evrybody has questions in their mind about God ,cuz no none has seen him,and a lot of people beleive in God in their own way,The only people that will go to hell are people who do bad things and who dont beleive in God at all.SO my friend dont worry about ur relatives as if they beleive in God then the heaven will be ready for them
God bless you
Reply

tresbien
11-02-2009, 11:47 AM


The Religion with Allah is Islam

Allah said,

[إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الإِسْلَـمُ]

(Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam.) Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam. Islam includes obeying all of the Messengers until Muhammad who finalized their commission, thus closing all paths to Allah except through Muhammad . Therefore, after Allah sent Muhammad , whoever meets Allah following a path other than Muhammad's, it will not be accepted of him. In another Ayah, Allah said,

[وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلَـمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ]

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him) [3:85].

In this Ayah [3:19], Allah said, asserting that the only religion accepted with Him is Islam,

[إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الإِسْلَـمُ]

(Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam.)

Allah then states that those who were given the Scripture beforehand divided in the religion after Allah sent the Messengers and revealed the Books to them providing them the necessary proofs to not do so. Allah said,

[وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ إِلاَّ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَآءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ]

(Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them.) meaning, some of them wronged others. Therefore, they differed over the truth, out of envy, hatred and enmity for each other. This hatred made some of them defy those whom they hated even if they were correct. Allah then said,

[وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَـتِ اللَّهِ]

(And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat of Allah) meaning, whoever rejects what Allah sent down in His Book,

[فَإِنَّ اللَّهِ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ]

(then surely, Allah is Swift in reckoning.) Allah will punish him for his rejection, reckon him for his denial, and torment him for defying His Book. Thereafter, Allah said.

[فَإنْ حَآجُّوكَ]

(So if they dispute with you (Muhammad )) so if they argue with you about Tawhid,

[فَقُلْ أَسْلَمْتُ وَجْهِىَ للَّهِ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ]

(Say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me'') meaning, Say, `I have made my worship sincere for Allah Alone without partners, rivals, offspring or companion,

[وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ]

(and those who follow me) who followed my religion and embraced my creed.' In another Ayah, Allah said,

[قُلْ هَـذِهِ سَبِيلِى أَدْعُو إِلَى اللَّهِ عَلَى بَصِيرَةٍ أَنَاْ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِى]

(Say (O Muhammad ): "This is my way; I invite unto Allah with sure knowledge, I and whosoever follows me...'') [12:108].


Islam is the Religion of Mankind and the Prophet Was Sent to all Mankind

Allah commanded His servant and Messenger, Muhammad , to call the People of the Two Scriptures and the unlettered idolators to his religion, way, Law and all that Allah sent him with. Allah said,

[وَقُلْ لِّلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ وَالاٍّمِّيِّينَ ءَأَسْلَمْتُمْ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُواْ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَواْ وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلَـغُ]

(And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves'' If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message.) meaning, their reckoning is with Allah and their return and final destination is to Him. It is He Who guides whom He wills and allows whom He wills to stray, and He has the perfect wisdom and the unequivocal proof for all of this. This is why Allah said,

[وَاللَّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ]

(And Allah sees the servants.) for He has perfect knowledge of who deserves to be guided and who does not deserve to be guided. Verily,

[لاَ يُسْأَلُ عَمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسْـَلُونَ ]

(He cannot be questioned for what He does, while they will be questioned.) [21:23] because of His perfect wisdom and mercy. This and similar Ayat are clear proofs that the Message of Muhammad is universal to all creation, as it is well established in the religion, according to the various texts of the Book and Sunnah. For instance, Allah said,

[قُلْ يَأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنِّى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ جَمِيعًا]

(Say (O Muhammad ): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah.'') [7:158], and,

[تَبَارَكَ الَّذِى نَزَّلَ الْفُرْقَانَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ لِيَكُونَ لِلْعَـلَمِينَ نَذِيراً ]

(Blessed be He Who sent down the criterion to His servant that he may be a warner to the `Alamin (mankind and Jinn).) [25:1].

The Two Sahihs and other collections of Hadith recorded that the Prophet sent letters to the kings of the earth during his time and to different peoples, Arabs and non-Arabs, People of the Book and the unlettered, just as Allah had commanded him. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Ma`mar said, that Hammam said that Abu Hurayrah said that the Prophet said,

«وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ، لَا يَسْمَعُ بِي أَحَدٌ مِنْ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةِ: يَهُودِيٌّ وَلَا نَصْرَانِيٌّ، وَمَاتَ وَلَمْ يُؤْمِنْ بِالَّذِي أُرْسِلْتُ بِهِ، إِلَّا كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ النَّار»

(By He in Whose Hand is my soul! No member of this Ummah, no Jew or Christian, hears of me but dies without believing in what I was sent with, but will be among the people of the Fire.) Muslim recorded this Hadith.

The Prophet said,

«بُعِثْتُ إِلَى الْأَحْمَرِ وَالْأَسْوَد»

(I was sent to the red and black. ) and,

«كَانَ النَّبِيُّ يُبْعَثُ إِلى قَوْمِهِ خَاصَّةً، وَبُعِثْتُ إِلَى النَّاسِ عَامَّة»

(A Prophet used to be sent to his people, but I was sent to all mankind.)

[إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَـتِ اللَّهِ وَيَقْتُلُونَ النَّبِيِّينَ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ وَيَقْتُلُونَ الَّذِينَ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْقِسْطِ مِنَ النَّاسِ فَبَشِّرْهُم بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ - أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَـلُهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالاٌّخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُم مِّن نَّـصِرِينَ ]

(21. Verily, those who disbelieve in the Ayat of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, then announce to them a painful torment.) (22. They are those whose works will be lost in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.)

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=7974
Reply

adriatic82
11-02-2009, 12:27 PM
Listen man ,muslims preache in a very bad way ,u cant tell a non muslim that islam is the religion and thats it ,i try to preache people by saying beleive in one God only and do good things and thats a start ,when they do that u can tell them to read the Quran and see what they think as the Quran is full of science in it .people like u just give them Kuran Ayet s and expect them to beleive ,how do u know that bible is fake ? so again i take the responsibility in this BELEIVE IN ONE GOD ONLY ,THE GOD THAT CREATED EVRYTHING AND DO GOOD THINGS ,RESPECT UR WIFE ,HELP THE POOR AND U WILL GO TO HEAVEN
Reply

czgibson
11-02-2009, 11:01 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by adriatic82
Listen man ,muslims preache in a very bad way ,u cant tell a non muslim that islam is the religion and thats it ,i try to preache people by saying beleive in one God only and do good things and thats a start ,when they do that u can tell them to read the Quran and see what they think as the Quran is full of science in it .people like u just give them Kuran Ayet s and expect them to beleive ,how do u know that bible is fake ? so again i take the responsibility in this BELEIVE IN ONE GOD ONLY ,THE GOD THAT CREATED EVRYTHING AND DO GOOD THINGS ,RESPECT UR WIFE ,HELP THE POOR AND U WILL GO TO HEAVEN
Your approach seems to be a much better one to me. Quoting from the bossier selections of scripture has always struck me as a very strange way to try and attract somebody to a religion.

Peace
Reply

tresbien
11-03-2009, 11:22 AM
czgibson
Sahih Bukhari

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap021029.html
Reply

Uthman
11-03-2009, 11:50 AM
With regards to the question about Non-Muslims being sent to hell, Yasir Qadhi gives the answer from the orthodox position at 0:43:45 and 1:02:16 in the following video. Please do watch and listen to it.

Media Tags are no longer supported
Reply

czgibson
11-03-2009, 01:34 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
With regards to the question about Non-Muslims being sent to hell, Yasir Qadhi answers this question from the orthodox position at 0:43:45 in the following video. Please do listen to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wcxnUQqKT4
Horrifying. The man can barely conceal his hatred for non-Muslims. Does he count as an Islamic scholar?

"You cannot live a life of good without being a true Muslim." We could argue about what 'good' means, of course, but this amounts to little more than brainwashing. It's perfectly possible to lead a life of selflessness (as much as any human can) that benefits others and leaves a legacy of good without being a Muslim. Martin Luther King, M. K. Ghandi, Oscar Romero and countless other examples will attest to this.

Apparently denying Islam is equal to (or possibly worse) than murder. This shows an astonishing disregard for the right to life, and is a more innocuous-sounding part of the very same mentality that enables "so-called Muslim" suicide bombers to exist.

His final point on this question, about "salvific exclusivity", amounts to stating that "every other religion believes this, so why can't we?" And that, my friends, is one big reason why people like me think that all religions are a waste of everybody's time. They can't all be right, by their own tenets, but they can all be wrong.

I am amazed that someone as intelligent as you, Osman, could think that the views of this man are worth sharing. :hmm:

On the plus side, however, I thought the stage set was absolutely excellent!

Peace
Reply

Supreme
11-03-2009, 02:05 PM
I can't watch all of that video, but I skipped forward to that bit where that woman asked a question, and the scholar started talking about grapes.
Reply

Uthman
11-03-2009, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
I can't watch all of that video, but I skipped forward to that bit where that woman asked a question, and the scholar started talking about grapes.
Yes, that was amusing. :D

He was referring to a group of modernists who seek to deny the fact that men will have virgins in paradise by interpreting the word as meaning 'grapes' instead of 'virgins'.

czgibson, I've read your post and will reply shortly. :)
Reply

Uthman
11-03-2009, 05:48 PM
Greetings czgibson,

Thanks for the reply.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Horrifying. The man can barely conceal his hatred for non-Muslims. Does he count as an Islamic scholar?
It is absolutely not true that he hates Non-Muslims. I assure you that he has formed his views based purely on scripture. Like any orthodox Muslim, he does not believe what he believes just because he wants to believe it but rather he genuinely believes this to be the truth based on the texts. Does he count as an Islamic scholar? Well, he has studied under various scholars at the Islamic University of Madinah and has authored a few books about Islam, about which I consider him to be very knowledgeable.He has also spoken out firmly against violence and extremism committed in the name of Islam, which has led to some extremist "Muslims" deeming him to be an American sell-out.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
"You cannot live a life of good without being a true Muslim." We could argue about what 'good' means, of course, but this amounts to little more than brainwashing. It's perfectly possible to lead a life of selflessness (as much as any human can) that benefits others and leaves a legacy of good without being a Muslim. Martin Luther King, M. K. Ghandi, Oscar Romero and countless other examples will attest to this.
I was going to argue about what 'good' means but you've already dismissed anything I could possibly say as "little more than brainwashing". :hmm:

In the case of the individuals you mentioned, I will stress again that, if they knew Islam to be the truth and rejected it, then they will not go to paradise. If they were unaware about it, then Allah (the glorified and exalted) might let them into paradise from his mercy. By the way, none of us - not even the best of us - will enter paradise except by Allah's mercy and this is because no amount of worship we can do will ever be enough to worship Allah as much as he deserves to be worshipped.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Apparently denying Islam is equal to (or possibly worse) than murder. This shows an astonishing disregard for the right to life, and is a more innocuous-sounding part of the very same mentality that enables "so-called Muslim" suicide bombers to exist.
The point was that, to knowingly reject the truth about your purpose for existence and thus indirectly claim that what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said was false is enough to eclipse a lifetime of 'good' (whatever that means) that you might have done. Let's think about the bigger picture here - the very reason that we exist. According to Islam, the only reason that we were created is to worship Allah (the way he wants us to worship him). If somebody comes to realise this purpose and rejects it, then they have done something very evil. If they go on to do things that would have been considered good, had they been done for Allah's sake, then these deeds will not avail them because they are continuing to do something very evil by not fulfilling the real purpose of their existence despite them knowing full well what that purpose is.

I'm not sure how you inferred his analogy as being 'an astonishing disregard for the right to life' though. He neither said nor implied in any way that it is acceptable to murder a Non-Muslim. He was using murder as an example of something very evil which completely eclipses anything good that you might have done.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
His final point on this question, about "salvific exclusivity", amounts to stating that "every other religion believes this, so why can't we?"
His mention of salvific exclusivity being a part of every religion was really more of a side point. In fact he used the words "by the way" right before he said it. He wasn't stating it as a reason to believe in salvific exclusivity, but merely mentioning it as an additional side point to consider.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
I am amazed that someone as intelligent as you, Osman, could think that the views of this man are worth sharing. :hmm:
As I said earlier, these are not his personal views, but the mainstream Islamic position. He studied at the Islamic University of Madinah, his views are based on an orthodox understanding of the texts and I consider myself to be an orthodox Muslim. Anyway, I know you don't like what he says but if you want to know the mainstream Islamic position on this issue, then you should definitely listen to him.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
On the plus side, however, I thought the stage set was absolutely excellent!
I don't suppose you'd like to see more of it? :D

Regards
Reply

czgibson
11-03-2009, 06:27 PM
Greetings Osman,

Sorry. I know my reply sounded harsh. I just find it very upsetting that many, many people appear to believe these things.

format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
It is absolutely not true that he hates Non-Muslims. I assure you that he has formed his views based purely on scripture.
That is a non sequitur, surely?

I was going to argue about what 'good' means but you've already dismissed anything I could possibly say as "little more than brainwashing". :hmm:
My fault again - I phrased that badly. I meant that his statement "You cannot live a life of good without being a true Muslim" amounted to little more than brainwashing.

The point was that, to knowingly reject the truth about your purpose for existence and thus indirectly claim that what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said was false is enough to eclipse a lifetime of 'good' (whatever that means) that you might have done. Let's think about the bigger picture here - the very reason that we exist. According to Islam, the only reason that we were created is to worship Allah (the way he wants us to worship him). If somebody comes to realise this purpose and rejects it, then they have done something very evil. If they go on to do things that would have been considered good, had they been done for Allah's sake, then these deeds will not avail them because they are continuing to do something very evil by not fulfilling the real purpose of their existence despite them knowing full well what that purpose is.
This is the most interesting part of this issue. You seem now to be talking about people who believe in Islam and then reject it. Is that different from someone studying Islam and learning lots about it, while never at any stage believing it to be true?

I'm not sure how you inferred his analogy as being 'an astonishing disregard for the right to life' though. He neither said nor implied in any way that it is acceptable to murder a Non-Muslim. He was using murder as an example of something very evil which completely eclipses anything good that you might have done.
I know he didn't imply that, and I don't really think he believes it either, but his words definitely enable the mindset of the suicide bomber to exist. Denying Islam is an action that, even if Islam is true, harms nobody except the person doing it. Murder clearly harms others, so there is no moral equivalence here. If you think there is, then surely that downgrades your attitude to the right to life?

His mention of salvific exclusivity being a part of every religion was really more of a side point. In fact he used the words "by the way" right before he said it. He wasn't stating it as a reason to believe in salvific exclusivity, but merely mentioning it as an additional side point to consider.
Well, fair enough - I've already stated my thoughts on it.

As I said earlier, these are not his personal views, but the mainstream Islamic position. He studied at the Islamic University of Madinah, his views are based on an orthodox understanding of the texts and I consider myself to be an orthodox Muslim. Anyway, I know you don't like what he says but if you want to know the mainstream Islamic position on this issue, then you should definitely listen to him.
I suppose, then, I'm simply saying "I don't understand how you can believe Islam is true", which is something that it's very difficult for me to avoid coming back to. This division of the world into believers and non-believers is something that most religions (and other organisations) do, and to me it's always seemed very damaging. Violent people can easily take advantage of such a state of affairs, and religion just gives them one more reason to do so.

I don't suppose you'd like to see more of it? :D
Only if I was playing a gig on it with my band. :D

Peace
Reply

tresbien
11-03-2009, 06:55 PM
what a beautiful song by michael
http://video.tiscali.it/canali/truveo/2848108499.html
Reply

MSalman
11-03-2009, 07:00 PM
@czgibson,

what a load of trash!

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson

Horrifying. The man can barely conceal his hatred for non-Muslims. Does he count as an Islamic scholar?
what do you want us to do? Love you, like you? Do you love us? You reject Islam and attack Islam from left and right and you want us to not to hate you for your kufr and violating the rights of Allah!? Yes, we hate you due to your actions and belief! This is most nonsensical thing that I ever hear from you kuffaar and your complains "o Muslims hate us; o Muslims call us kafir" are not going to help you! The one who does not hate the kuffaar for their actions and beliefs and yet claim to be a Muslim then he should know that the imaan has left his heart!

And yes he is a knowledgeable person for us and we do not need to hear from kuffaar who is an Islamic scholar and who is not.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
"You cannot live a life of good without being a true Muslim." We could argue about what 'good' means, of course, but this amounts to little more than brainwashing. It's perfectly possible to lead a life of selflessness (as much as any human can) that benefits others and leaves a legacy of good without being a Muslim. Martin Luther King, M. K. Ghandi, Oscar Romero and countless other examples will attest to this.
what is brainwashing is telling people that there is no absolute truth and operating on this paradigm and forcing people to live by your subjective standards, which leads to nothing but more oppression and injustice. Good is that which is defined by the Creator and not by puny humans deficient knowledge and intellect.

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Apparently denying Islam is equal to (or possibly worse) than murder. This shows an astonishing disregard for the right to life, and is a more innocuous-sounding part of the very same mentality that enables "so-called Muslim" suicide bombers to exist.
again, these thoughts stems because your whole ideology is corrupt; thus, you cannot understand Islam and whenever you do try then you use your own corrupt notions and standards which is not objective in any field of academic. Islam is to be understood by its own standards and principles. The rights of Allah greatly outweigh the rights of the humans; thus, denying Allah and His Message is worse than killing a human being. Because your whole methodology is corrupt and not based upon Prophetic understanding; hence, you cannot swallow this and your list of crimes are only limited to humans. You are here complaining about rights of humans but what about the rights of your Creator, the one Who Created you and gave you everything you have? Who deserve to be given more respect!?

The main problem with you and many other athiest/agonistic members on this board is that you should be talking about believing in Allah and not laws of Islam and why this or that scholar say what he says or why does he hate us. Because until you cannot understand and agree upon the sources, principles and standards of Islam, you will never be able to understand and swallow the laws of Islam and speech of our scholars.

And it is absurd for you to make a correlation between what we are discussing and with suicide bombing, which almost in all cases have no place in Islam. Hating you for your kufr and calling spade for spade for violating the rights of Allah and speaking haqq does not encourage us or gives us the room to kill innocent people. This is only in the minds of corrupt people, like yourself, because your whole mentality is stuck at these sorts of things and your train of thoughts cannot go further than this station.

rest is typical rambling

format_quote Originally Posted by adriatic82
This topic made me so angry ,who the hell told u that non muslims go to hell,No body goes to hell if they beleive in God and u do good things,evrybody has questions in their mind about God ,cuz no none has seen him,and a lot of people beleive in God in their own way,The only people that will go to hell are people who do bad things and who dont beleive in God at all.SO my friend dont worry about ur relatives as if they beleive in God then the heaven will be ready for them
God bless you
how dare you actually say this and yet claim to be a Muslim? You think the people who deny the Message of Allah and those who deny His existence are not going to hell!? Where did you learn your Islam!? So Christians are going to heaven too because they believe in God in their own way when the Qur'an called them outright heretics and those who will go to hell?
Reply

czgibson
11-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
@czgibson,

what a load of trash!
Thank you for your kind words. :)

what do you want us to do? Love you, like you? Do you love us? You reject Islam and attack Islam from left and right and you want us to not to hate you for your kufr and violating the rights of Allah!? Yes, we hate you due to your actions and belief! This is most nonsensical thing that I ever hear from you kuffaar and your complains "o Muslims hate us; o Muslims call us kafir" are not going to help you! The one who does not hate the kuffaar for their actions and beliefs and yet claim to be a Muslim then he should know that the imaan has left his heart!
I don't hate you. Why do you hate me?

Peace
Reply

Far7an
11-03-2009, 07:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tresbien
That is by Irfan Makki, not Micheal Jackson.
Reply

tresbien
11-03-2009, 08:05 PM
czgibson
Take my word for it.I do not hate you nor any muslims.I pray for u.We care about u wellfare .
greetings
Reply

Sampharo
11-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Dear Bibish,

First of all welcome to Islam, the true religion and message of God.

I hope I will be able to shed some light on this issue utilizing the evidence from Quran and Hadith to show you what is unanimous knowledge amongst the Islamic world, and across all schools of jurisprudence.

The message to believe in God was sent down with Adam, repeated with prophets Idris and Houd, and delivered through Noah to his people across a century. The first one to receive the full code of jurisprudence and religion was prophet Ibrahim, and that message as per the Quran was Islam:

"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and submitted to Allah's will as a Muslim, and he joined not gods with Allah." [3:67]

That message was the same one sent through all the prophets since:

"Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." [2:133]

Judaism was the remnants of the message of Islam to Moses adjusted by the Israelites, acceptable from them by God as he says in the holy book as well "... and those who followed the Jewish (scriptures)..." [2:62] , but that is only to the coming of Jesus.

Christianity as well, even though was a man-made church built on the scriptures of Jesus, was still acceptable by God "...and the Christians and the Sabians,- who believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. ".[2:62]

That was however only till the coming of Mohamed, deliverer of the Quran, the Last Testament. As per the famous verse that was quoted before "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost" [3:85]

All that is clear and unambiguous text in the Quran that religion to God is Islam, through Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed it was always Islam, but the people who came before the last Testament, since they had no surviving or co-herent scriptures maintained, were accepted based on belief in God and good deeds.

Once a clear message is brought to people, it is not valid to ignore it and fail to adopt it, and this is now the heart of the matter:

The reason why the Quran was delivered in perfect preserved language and form, and stood challenging time with scientific accuracy and perfection of words, unchanged since it was revealed is specifically that: So no one anymore can declare that they don't have a guiding co-herent message or scripture to follow, in order to be held responsible regarding following the truth.

The message is considered to have been delivered by hearing the call to worship one God, and do good deeds ("Prophet -pbuh- told his companions going to make daw'ah in the tribes, to invite people to one God, and to hold on to the best of morals and ethics. If they answer that, then tell them of the requirement of prayer...." Rest of the Hadith), and by having access to a copy of the Quran or a part of it.

Whether by refusing to read the quran and accept Islam, or by reading the quran and not accepting Islam, or by reading the quran and accepting that Islam is the right religion but rejecting the need to convert to it and that another religion is just as good, are all one and the same: disbelief. Someone who disbelieves, is obviously a disbeliever (kafir), and as such will have the following ruling "But the Unbelievers,- their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing" [24:39] (Obvious rare situation of being so remote that they never heard of worshipping one God and never received the message or the Quran, the prophet -pbuh- said God is the judge of those, and there's no better judge than Him.)

Otherwise What's the point of any deeds if there is no intention of directing it towards God? Why then were we created? "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me."[51:56] The basis upon which even though they can be good people, but still go to Hell, can be better explained in another post that was copied and pasted in the first reply you got, I think it was from Rasema.

On a couple of side notes, LanguageManiac said here that he joined Islam but doesn't necessarily believe in the Quran. One cannot say he believes in God, and then rejects his book, his complete message, the Quran. For the Shahada says: "I declare no god but God, and I declare that Mohamed is his Apostle". Rejecting the Quran means you reject that Mohamed was an Apostle or suggesting that he fabricated it, and that is not a muslim. No need to even delve into the 5 pillars of Islam and the 6 articles of faith which the rejection of any of them takes one out of the fold of Islam, and was considered non-muslim by the prophet and the companions and even fought like those who rejected Zakat. Hopefully he can complete his revertion.

One person published an interesting best-worst case scenario comparison to suggest that you shouldn't tell your family and friends, because if you do and they reject they will be doomed, but if you don't maybe they'll be regarded as forgiven. An interesting analysis considering it is coming from an athiest, adopters of a worst-case scenario themselves (If they are right, then nothing, if they're wrong, they burn in Hell forever. While if muslims are right they go to eternal Heaven, if they're wrong then nothing), however the comparison fails to address something that is not exactly his fault considering he doesn't know Islam: You will be judged for not telling people around you. As a muslim you need to tell them that
- you are a muslim,
- that Islam is to worship God alone, the one god who created heavens and earth and provides for all beings, and to abide by the best of morals and ethics and deeds,
- and that here is the Quran, the book revealed to Mohamed in perfect form to read it for themselves.

Withholding knowledge is a sin, withholding critical knowledge is a great sin. Additionally, they still would have known for themselves about Islam even if you don't tell them, since we're already in the time of the Internet and media, it's not that secret or exotic anymore.



I hope this helps you understand, and may God guide your family to the truth the way He guided you. Just remember that when Noah stood on the ark and his son was running away refusing to believe him and board the ark, Noah supplicated to God in the full agony that a father can muster, to guide his son, and God's response to Noah (and also to Ibrahim and Mohamed and therefore should carry to all of us) that we do not guide who we like, but God guides whomever wants to be guided.

Of course I am sure some will "disagree" here and think that everyone will go to heaven, or that maybe as the joke said Hindus and "Saint" Peter will be frolicing in paradise avoiding upsetting Catholics, or even that Budha, Abraha, and the 100,000 gods in a cow will all be there directing people towards their own paradises and then there will be a public one for athiests because "what the hey!" and so on... :statisfie However, this is after all an Islamic thread, on an Islamic forum, and the question by a muslim is about Islam. Therefore the answer to the question needs to be delivered in the language of the actual rulings and dictations as per Islam, not in hopes and opinions of how it should be of everybody else.

The prophet Mohamed -pbuh- made it very clear to us in many Hadith that whomever rejects reverting to Islam after his coming and the revelation of the Quran, will not be accepted as a believer and will not enter Heaven.

May God grant us all forgiveness for our sins and accepts our worship
Reply

Supreme
11-04-2009, 07:28 PM
The title of this thread is 'non-Muslims sent to hell'. This may be the case; however, just because according to Islam all non Muslims are hell bound, surely there going to be Muslims who are going to go to Hell too? Being a Muslim may increase your chances greatly of going to Paradise, but not all Muslims will get in surely?
Reply

tresbien
11-04-2009, 07:36 PM
Supreme
n the following lines, I will talk about the real meaning of bankruptcy in Islam. The Prophet once asked his Companions, "Do you know who is the bankrupt?" The Companions said, "A bankrupt is the one who has neither dirham (money) nor wealth." The Prophet said,


The bankrupt of my Ummah is he who would come on the Day of Judgment with prayers, fasting, and zakah; but who had offended one person, slandered another, devoured others' wealth, shed the blood of this person, and beat that person. (Muslim)

Each one of these people would be given some of the wrongdoer's good deeds. If his good deeds fall short of settling the account, then their sins will be taken from their accounts and thrown into his account, and he would be thrown in the Hellfire.

This hadith is a complete enough reminder to make those who are Muslims by name and who act against Islamic ethics, to be on the alert. Also, we should understand this hadith and keep it in mind in order to avoid being bankrupt and being losers on the Day of Judgment.

In few simple words, the Prophet taught his Companions and every Muslim who believes in him a great lesson, and gave them tremendously valuable advice as to how to avoid the Hellfire and be a winner at the Day of Judgment. The Qur'an says in this regard:


[Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved from the Hellfire and admitted to Paradise will win.](Aal `Imran 3:185)

The hadith is a message from the Prophet who was concerned for his Ummah and its well-being. As a teacher and messenger, he had a tender heart that was grieved that any of his flock should rush headlong to ruin. He watched carefully over them, and whenever any of them showed signs of faith, his kindness and mercy would surround them and rejoice over them.

This is the true character of our beloved Prophet who is described in the Qur'an:


[Now has come unto you a Messenger from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should perish. He is deeply anxious over you; to the Believers, he is most kind and merciful] (At-Tawbah 9:128)

Because the Prophet was most kind and most merciful to the believers, he was extremely anxious to teach them what is right and what is wrong, what is halal (lawful) and what is haram (unlawful), what actions lead to Paradise and what actions lead to Hellfire.

Our hadith is an example of his kindness, care, and concern. In the aforementioned hadith, the Prophet asked his Companions, "Do you know who is the bankrupt?" Obviously, he did not ask them because he did not know. He was a man from the Quraish, a tribe well known for trading with the East and the West. He himself traveled when he was 25 in a trading trip on behalf of the woman who was to become his first wife, Khadijah. He asked them in order to attract their attention to what he was about to say, to give an example of an idea known to them, an example they understood and visualized, so that he could present his message in a clear and practical way. For the Companions, the bankrupt was the one who had no money or wealth. When a person has no money at all and nothing to sell, he is bankrupt.

And what is worse yet is, if on top of that, he owes money to others. In other words, being bankrupt is better than being bankrupt and in debt. But could there be another form or a different meaning for bankruptcy? This is what the Prophet was trying to convey. He wanted to teach them and us a deeper meaning and form of bankruptcy that is much worse than what they knew and had in mind. Bankruptcy in this life cannot be compared to bankruptcy on the Day of Reckoning — the Day of Judgment.

Bankruptcy in this life is unpleasant, to say the least, but it may be overcome one way or another. The bankrupt may be able to recover from this hardship. He may be lucky and fortunate. Someone may lend him money or help him to stand on his feet.

On the Day of Judgment, the criterion for bankruptcy is completely different. On that day, accounts have to be settled. Money, power, and wealth will not be helpful unless they were used properly during one's lifetime.

No one can buy good deeds or rewards on that day, simply because there are none for sale. No one will sell you, lend you, or give you one single good deed or reward, not even your own mother. On that day, each person is concerned with their own affairs, their own salvation.


[On that day, man shall run from his own brother, and from his mother and father, and from his wife and his children. Each one of them, at that day, will have enough concern of their own to make them indifferent to others] (`Abasa 80:34-37)

The only thing that helps on that day is your own good deeds — the rewards that you have earned, by the grace of Allah, by doing righteous things in your life, like praying, fasting, giving zakah and charity, being kind to your parents, family, neighbors, and others, helping those who need your help, enjoining goodness, and forbidding and resisting evil. And yet, all the good deeds that you may have in your account may not be enough for you to enter Paradise. The rewards and the good deeds that you may earn in this life could easily be lost and frustrated in the hereafter, where they may be consumed by your transgressions and bad manners.


In the example mentioned by the Prophet, the man not only lost all his rewards for his good deeds, but he had to bear the sins of his victims as he ran out of rewards and was unable to redress his wrongdoing. Therefore he became a real bankrupt and a loser, and then was thrown in Hellfire, as the hadith said. The lessons that can be learned from the hadith are numerous:

1. Acts of worship could earn us rewards, but they do not do away with the need for good manners. Dealing with people kindly and properly is an indispensable part of our religion. Obeying Allah, by performing the obligatory rituals and observing the divine rights we owe to Allah, does not absolve us from completing our duties towards others and respecting their rights. Unfortunately, many Muslims seem to think that religion is limited only to their relationship with the Creator.

They pray, fast, give zakah, and perform Hajj and `Umrah. At the same time, you find that they are rude and repulsive when they deal with others. They may cheat or deceive in the name of business. Whenever they feel like it, some Muslims offend others and backstab them. They lie when they talk, betray when they are trusted, and abuse other's rights when it is convenient to them. They do not honor their word nor keep a promise. Instead of helping the weak and the helpless, they may assault them verbally and physically or take advantage of their vulnerability.


This is not the Islamic concept of religion at all. Islam is a comprehensive religion. It contains not only our relationship with the Creator but also our relationship with His creatures. When you look at any book of Islamic Shari`ah, you can see the huge spectrum of relations that are covered by the rules established in the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The Shari`ah deals with the relationships of a Muslim with himself, his Lord, family, parents, neighbors, friends, enemies, other communities, and the whole world, even animals, trees, and roads.

2. Allah may forgive us for breaching His rights because he is Merciful and Most Forgiving but He will not forgive us for breaching the rights of His creatures. This is a matter that has to be settled by us in this life if possible. Wrongs have to be corrected. Damages have to be redressed. Apologies have to be made and forgiveness has to be sought. Justice has to be made, it will be made either in this life or in the Hereafter.

3. Our transgressions and wrongdoings to others must be settled in this life before it is too late. Otherwise, settling matters will definitely be made in the hereafter in a way which may run the risk of leaving us bankrupt.

This hadith presents valuable advice and guidance from our beloved Prophet, who is telling us in few simple words how to avoid being bankrupt on the Day of Judgment. Acts of worship are a part of the religion but not the whole religion. Good manners and proper, fair dealings with other human beings are another part of our religion. Neither part is dispensable. Fulfilling our obligations towards Allah does not absolve us from our other obligations and duties towards His creatures. Wisdom dictates that we be quick to seek forgiveness and mend our faults in this life before we have to pay for them dearly on the Day of Reckoning. We implore Allah to save us all from bankruptcy in this life and on the Day of Judgment.



* The article is excerpted with some modifications and with kind permission from the Khutbah Bank.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1165994221332
Reply

Supreme
11-04-2009, 07:42 PM
Thank you for your reply, tresbian. Maybe off the topic, but I heard there is a bunch of Muslims who reject the Hadith and only accept the Quran, called Quranists. What are your feelings to such people, and does their rejection of the Hadith make them any less likely to enter Paradise?
Reply

tresbien
11-04-2009, 07:56 PM
It is essential that it be established in the mind and heart of every Muslim that the Sunnah – which is the words, deeds and approval that are attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – is one of the two parts of divine Revelation that were revealed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The other part of the Revelation (Wahy) is the Holy Qur’aan.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

4. It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:3-4]

It was narrated from al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Yakrib (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Verily I have been given the Qur’aan and something similar to it along with it. But soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch with a full stomach, and he will say, ‘You should adhere to this Qur’aan: what you find that it says is permissible, take it as permissible, and what you find it says is forbidden, take it as forbidden.’ But indeed, whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (2664). He said: It is hasan ghareeb with this isnaad. It was classed as hasan by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (2870).

This is what was understood by the righteous salaf (may Allaah be pleased with them):

Hassaan ibn ‘Atiyah said in al-Kifaayah by al-Khateeb (12):

Jibreel used to bring the sunnah down to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as he used to bring the Qur’aan down to him. End quote.

Narrated by al-Daarimi in his Sunan (588) and by al-Khateeb in al-Kifaayah (12). It was attributed by al-Haafiz in al-Fath (13/291) to al-Bayhaqi, and he said: With a saheeh isnaad.

The importance of the Sunnah is first of all that it explains the Book of Allaah and is a commentary on it, then it adds some rulings to those in the Book of Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad صلىالله عليه وسلم) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”

[al-Nahl 16:44].

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in Jaami’ Bayaan al-‘Ilm wa Fadlihi (2/190):

The commentary of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) on the Qur’aan is of two types:

1 – Explaining things that are mentioned in general terms in the Holy Qur’aan, such as the five daily prayers, their times, prostration, bowing and all other rulings.

2 – Adding rulings to the rulings of the Qur’aan, such as the prohibition on being married to a woman and to her paternal or maternal aunt at the same time. End quote.

Secondly:

As the Sunnah is the second of the two parts of Revelation, it is inevitable that Allaah will protect it, so as to preserve the religion from distortion and additions or subtractions.

Ibn Hazm (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Ihkaam (1/95):

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

[al-Hijr 15:9]

“Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “I warn you only by the Revelation (from Allaah and not by the opinion of the religious scholars and others). But the deaf (who follow the religious scholars and others blindly) will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned [i.e. one should follow only the Qur’aan and the Sunnah (legal ways, orders, acts of worship, and the statements of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , as the Companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did)]”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:45]

Allaah tells us that the words of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are all Wahy (revelation), and Wahy is undoubtedly Dhikr, and Dhikr is preserved according to the text of the Qur’aan. Thus it is correct to say that his words (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are all preserved by Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, and He has promised that none of them will be lost to us, because that which Allaah preserves can certainly not be lost at all; it has all been transmitted to us and Allaah has established proof and left us with no excuse. End quote.

Thirdly:

Once it is established that the Sunnah is part of the divine revelation, it is essential to note that there is only one difference between it and the Qur’aan, which is that the Qur'aan is the word of Allaah, may He be exalted, which was revealed verbatim to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), whereas the Sunnah may not be the words of Allaah, rather it is only His Revelation, so it need not necessarily come to us verbatim, but the meaning of it comes to us.

Once we understand this difference, we see that the point in transmission of the Sunnah is to convey the meanings, not the exact same words that were uttered by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Islam tells us that Allaah only preserves the words of the Qur’aan in full, and He preserves the general meanings of the Sunnah, and that which explains the Book of Allaah, not the exact words and phrases.

However, the scholars of this ummah throughout the early centuries strove to preserve the sharee’ah and the Sunnah. They have transmitted to us the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as he said them, and they distinguished between the reports that were right and wrong, true and false.

What the questioner sees of multiple reports of a single hadeeth does not mean that there is any shortcoming in the preservation and transmission of the Sunnah. Rather the reports vary for numerous reasons, and once they are understood the answer will become clear.
www.islamqa.com
Reply

tresbien
11-04-2009, 07:59 PM
.
Those who deny the status of Sunnah as the second source of Islamic law, or who reject it altogether, are actually denying the Qur'an as well. This is because the Qur'an commands us to obey and follow the Prophet through his Sunnah. Thus the consensus among the scholars is that those who reject the Sunnah as the second source if Islamic Law are considered as apostates. Their status as Muslims will be automatically revoked.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar
Reply

Supreme
11-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Does it say anything in the Quran itself about the hadith?

EDIT: My bad, I hadn't read all of your post.

What I mean is, does the Quran consciously mention the Hadith by name at all?
Reply

tresbien
11-04-2009, 08:11 PM
Proof of the importance of the Sunnah OR HADITH

(1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:

(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]

(c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65]

(d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24]

(e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example:

(a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).

Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).

(b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah).

(3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah.

Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.

(4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah.

The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions.

The ruling concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are kaafirs, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion.

As regards your second question, about whether a Muslim is required to follow a particular madhhab, the answer is that he does not have to. For the average “rank and file” Muslim, his madhhab is that of his mufti or the scholar whom he consults for religious verdicts; he must ask those pious scholars whom he trusts for opinions when necessary. If a person has enough knowledge to distinguish which evidence and opinion is stronger, then he must follow the scholarly opinion which has the strongest support from the Qur’an and Sunnah. It is acceptable for a Muslim to follow one of the four well-known madhhabs, on the condition that he understands that the truth in any given issue may lie with another madhhab, in which case he must ignore his own madhhab’s opinion and follow the truth. The Muslim’s aim is to follow the truth that is in accordance with the Qur’an and Sunnah. The madhhabs of fiqh are only a means of reaching ahkaam (rules) based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah, they are not Qur’aan and Sunnah.

We ask Allaah to show us the truth and help us to follow it, and to show us falsehood and help us to avoid it. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
Reply

tresbien
11-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Supreme
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-07-2009, 08:02 PM
Ya aiyuhalladheena aamanu, ittakullahu wa La thamoothoona illa wa antum muslimooon.

Oh you believers, dun die until your a muslim, and a holistic muslim.

so the hadith which someone said, about allah asking the disbelievers to jump into the fire and if they do, they will go to heaven is nonsense..coz that hadith is for kids of disbelievers...those who have not attained puberty..

And if im not wrong, there was a man who asked Muhammad, "Oh nabi, my parents are dead..where are they now?" and Muhammad replied, "they are in hell.." then the man was very saddened and upset. so nabi told him, "so are my parents..." Brothers and sisters, if Muhammad, the best creation of Allah, and his parents, a noble couple(all prophets will only be born to noble ppl..those who dun commit Zin etc..) were in hell, what about ur parents? what about my parents? who are we cheating by saying Allah will judge them according to their intention?

To a homosexual, having gay sex is no sin...and he can be a very nice person...but its the biggest sin in the eyes of religious humans...to a Kafir, disbelieving in Allah and worshipping other gods is no sin...but in the eyes of Allah, That is the biggest sin, even worst than sodomy...so brothers and sisters, how can we even say they will be forgiven when in the Quran, it has been clearly said, no forgiveness if u die as a disbeliever...and it has been stressed, dun die until ur a muslim...
Reply

Muslimlearner
11-09-2009, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Kadir
And if im not wrong, there was a man who asked Muhammad, "Oh nabi, my parents are dead..where are they now?" and Muhammad replied, "they are in hell.." then the man was very saddened and upset. so nabi told him, "so are my parents..." Brothers and sisters, if Muhammad, the best creation of Allah, and his parents, a noble couple(all prophets will only be born to noble ppl..those who dun commit Zin etc..) were in hell, what about ur parents? what about my parents? who are we cheating by saying Allah will judge them according to their intention?

...
:cry::cry::cry:

some ppl Allah SUT created for Hell and some for Paradise...
Reply

Muslimlearner
11-09-2009, 03:05 PM
may be is makruh,but I wonder how we will be fully happy in Jennah,when see our parents in Hell ...?
Ya Rabb!!!
Reply

Flashdash
11-09-2009, 06:17 PM
u know man u can help them

u can show them how great is Islam and how does muslim deal with other people

i know a man who converted to Islam and in a 32 day his family becomes muslims too

so y don't u try with a good word and a good thing that Islam taught u
Reply

MSalman
11-09-2009, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Thank you for your kind words.
you are welcome

format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
I don't hate you. Why do you hate me?
neither you like me; it was explained thoroughly in my previous post and you even quoted one of the passages and yet you ask a question.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
11-09-2009, 06:32 PM
you simply need to understand two things and this worry will be removed,

the first is:

"Allah is the most knowledgable"

he knows what you know not, he knows who is good, who is bad, who deserves reward, and who deserves punishment. You should trust in him MORE THEN WHAT YOUR EYES SEE AND EARS HEAR !



secondly:

"Allah is the most Just"


He subhanahu wa ta'ala would never oppress a single soul, not even a single animal will be oppressed on the day of accountability.





If you can truelly ponder over those two facts, understand and accept them. Then this worry will NEVER take root in your heart again inshaAllaah.


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-10-2009, 12:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
he knows what you know not, he knows who is good, who is bad, who deserves reward, and who deserves punishment. You should trust in him MORE THEN WHAT YOUR EYES SEE AND EARS HEAR !
Your eyes see the quran, ur ears hears the quran...the quran is the words of Allah...use that as a guidance...those are the words (an attribute) of Allah...
Reply

linuses
11-21-2009, 02:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,
If Islam was true, I would be expecting to go to hell. I've been aware of Islam for many years, and I've been reading about it regularly for about ten years, and I've never felt the slightest urge to convert. In fact, the more I've learned about it, the less likely that has become.

Peace
Peace be unto you too. Tell me WHAT is it that you DON'T like in Islam? I'm curiously wanted to know.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, i'd like to share this article with you - http://linuses.blogspot.com , and tell me what you think.

Peace.
Reply

linuses
11-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Reply to czgibson:

Peace be unto you.

Sorry I can't reply to your PM. I need to have 50 posts before I could do that!

I thank you for writing me. Appreciate that. Whatever your reason not liking Islam, I respect it. That is between you and the one who created you. I just want to share Islam for the sake of sharing the knowledge, its up to the person if he/she accepts it or not. There really is no pressure or coercion, just simply sharing to achieve a better understanding between people. And thank you for your interest in Islam. Anyway, I'm glad to be acquainted with you and wish you the best to you and your family.
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