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Rasema
10-20-2009, 10:13 PM
:salamext:
O.M.G. Another Thread by Rasema:offtopic:

The scholars say that we cannot imitate the kufar in traditions,cloathing etc...
I wish that was more detailed. In my culture, candles are disliked becasue the kufis use them when they pray to :zip:

What is my question?
Give me as much information as you can.

May Allah,subHana wa ta'ala, reward you.
Reply

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syilla
10-21-2009, 01:27 AM
^^^ukhtee...

i just don't know how to say this....

i remember there was once our prophet was wearing this new design of thoab (if i spell it right)...which originally not from the muslims... and from then onwards it becoming a trend.

Another new clothing made from the non muslims...then the prophet says it is one of the best clothing which is the trousers. :D

Ukhtee...lets try to learn as much as we can before we can be too decisive in a certain matter.
Reply

Woodrow
10-21-2009, 02:02 AM
We must first know what is meant by imitating. I personally do not really know. Much of what I find to have the appearance of imitating is simply adaptation to meet the climate and environment.

If a pious Muslim where to go to Thule Greenland he would within minutes freeze to death if he wore the clothes he wore in Saudi. The sensible clothing would be the parkas and heavy pants of the Kufar Eskimos, is that imitating the Kufar?
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 02:06 AM
:sl:
Thank you both for your time :)

Imitating a kufar is wanting to be like them. If I see a woman nicely dressed and adorned and I wish to look like her is wrong. I should detest her ways because they are rekless.
Now, I don't know what things fall under imitating kufar. I was reading a fatwa about Muslim relations to Non-Muslims so the scholar just added a sentence that imitating them is wrong.
Reply

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Woodrow
10-21-2009, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Thank you both for your time :)

Imitating a kufar is wanting to be like them. If I see a woman nicely dressed and adorned and I wish to look like her is wrong. I should detest her ways because they are rekless.
Now, I don't know what things fall under imitating kufar. I was reading a fatwa about Muslim relations to Non-Muslims so the scholar just added a sentence that imitating them is wrong.
Can it be that imitating is related to our intention for doing something? Do we eat soup with a spoon because we want to eat as the kufar do or because it is an easy and practical way? Do we fly from New York to London because it is the travel of choice by the Kufar or is it because it is the safest and fastest way to make the journey. Either of those cold be imitayting the kufar as that is the way the kufar do so, but perhaps if our intent is to simply eat soup or get to London, that may be a different view of what it is.
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 03:02 AM
:sl:

I must say that most of this is a scholar's own itjihad. However, there is a good evidence.Brother, we had a little issue about this a day ago. First comes Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, than Resul,saws, last, his inheritors. We do not outsmart them. We hear and obey.

Brother, you would be an angel, a melek, if all of your intentions were pure. Big sins start with the small ones. Can you always control your desires without knowing this? I don't think so.

This is information from Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan:

Indications Of Taking The Kuffaar As Friends (Mawlaat).

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

2 - Residence in their lands and not moving from their
lands to the lands of the Muslims to save one's Deen.
(This is a concise meaning of Hijrah)...
Hijrah, according to this meaning, is an obligation upon every
Muslim.
Residence in the land of the Kuffaar indicates friendship with
them. Allaah forbade the Muslims from residing in the lands of
the Kuffaar, if they are able to make Hijrah. Allaah the Exalted
said:

"When angels take the souls of those who die while
they have wronged their souls, they say, 'ln what
[state] were you?' They reply: 'We were weak and
oppressed in the earth.' [The Angels] say: "Was not
the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to move
yourselves away [from evil]?' Such men will find
their abode in Hell, what an evil refuge! Except those
who are [really] weak and oppressed: men, women,
and children who have no means in their power, nor
can they find a way [to escape]. For these, there is
hope that Allaah will forgive, because Allaah blots out
[sins] and forgives again and again." 11

The Islaamic Law (Sharee'ah) permits people to reside in the
lands of the Kuffaar if, they give da 'wah and propagate Islaam.

3 - Travelling to the lands of the Kuffaar for tourism and
vacation...

The Sharee'ah forbids travelling to the land of the Kuffaar,
except for medical treatment, trading, and education that is only
available in their land. When the necessity has finished, then one
must return, immediately, to the land of the Muslims. Those
whom the Sharee 'ah permits to go to the land of the Kuffaar
must manifest their Deen, be away from the evil places, and be
cautious of the plotting of the enemies of Allaah. Also, the
Sharee 'ah permits going to the lands of the Kuffaar for da 'wah
and propagating Islaam.

4 - Helping them, giving them victory over the Muslims,
speaking well of them and defending their honour...
These are some of the actions that negate a person's Islaam. I
seek refuge in Allaah from that!

5 - Seeking their aid, trusting them, putting them in
positions to know the secrets of the Muslims and
making them advisors...
Allaah the Exalted said,

"O you who believe! Do not take into your
intimacy those outside your ranks. They will not
fail to corrupt you. They only desire for you to
suffer. Hatred has already appeared from their
mouths, and what their hearts conceal is far
worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if you
have wisdom. Ah! you are those who love them,
but they do not love you, though you believe in the
whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say,
"We believe,' but when they are alone, out of
frustration and rage, they bite off the tips of their
fingers because of you. Say: "Perish in your
frustration rage. Allaah knows well all of the
secrets of the heart.' If anything that is good
befalls you, it grieves them, but if some misfortune
overtakes you, they rejoice at it..."

The above verses show what is [really] in the hearts of the
Kuffaar about the Muslims, such as hatred, betrayal, evil

plotting, and the love for harm to affect them. They want harm to
reach them by any means. They use the trust of the Muslims to
plot against them. Imaam Ahmad narrated that Abu Moosa Al-
Ash'aari said,
(radhiallahu 'anhu)
"/ said to 'Umar (RAA): have a Christian (Nasrani)
clerk [employee]. He ['Umar] said: ^Why? May Allaah
fight you! Didn't you hear the saying of Allaah, the
Exalted, 'O you who believe! Do not take the Yahood
and the Nasaara for Awliyaa. They are Awliyaa to
each other...' Why don't you employ a Hanifan [a
Muslim] [as your clerk].' He [Abu Moosa] said, "O
Commander of the Believers (Ameerul-Mu'minoon), for
me is what he writes for me and to him is his Deen.' He
['Umar] said, "How can I honour them when Allaah has
humiliated them and how can I bring them near to me
when Allaah has made them far [from me]."'
Imam Ahmad and Muslim narrated that when the Messenger of
Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) went to the Battle of Badr, one of the pagans
followed him until he caught up to him at a place called Al-
Harra 1*. The pagan said,
"/ wanted to fight with you so that you can give me some
of the booty from the war." He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'Do you believe in Allaah and His Messenger?'
He [the pagan] said, Wo.' He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'I will never seek help from a pagan!'

The above proofs from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the
Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) forbid us from allowing the pagans to
be in positions where they can know the secrets of the

Muslims. An example of this nowadays is when a Muslim
government brought the Kuffaar to their land as laborers, drivers,
maids, and baby sitters. Their bringing these Kuffar to their land
resulted in them mixing with the Muslims.

6 - Using their calendar instead of the Islaamic
calendar and, more importantly, observing the
holidays on their calendar, like Christmas...
Their holidays, like the birthday of the Messiah ('alaihis-
salaam), are not even from their Deen, but rather they are
holidays that they innovated in their Deen. So, using their
calendar means that we share their holidays, even though these
holidays are not from the Deen of the Messiah ('alaaihis-
salaam).

To be safe from falling into sharing their holidays, in the
Caliphate of 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhu), the Companions (Sahaabah) (radhiAllaahu
'anhu ajma'een) made their own calendar. They made this calendar starting
from the date of the Hijrah of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
from Makkah to Madeenah. This precedent that was established by the Sahaba
(radhiAllaahu 'anhu ajma'een) shows us that we should not use the cale ndars of
the Kuffaar or other similar things that belong to them. And
Allaah is the Best to give help.

7 - Observing their holidays or helping them to make
that celebration or congratulating them for their
holidays or just being present at their celebrations...

The scholars say about the verse, "Those who witness no
falsehood...", that the description of the worshippers of the
Most Merciful is that they do not gather at the celebrations of the
Kuffaar.

8 - Speaking well of them through what they have of
material wealth and being satisfied with their behavior
without looking at their Deen which is a false Deen...
Allaah the Exalted said:

"Nor strain your eyes [O Muhammad] in longing for
the things We have given for enjoyment to partie s of
them- the splendor of the life of this world -through
which We test them. But the provision of your Lord is
better and more lasting."

This verse does not mean that the Muslims should not acquire
the means to be strong, like manufacturing and other things that
make the economy and land strong. Nor does this verse mean
that we should not learn military tactics, but rather, we are
required to acquire all of these things. Allaah the Exalted said,

"Against them make ready your strength to the
utmost of your power..."

The high standard of living originally belongs to the Muslims.
Allaah the Exalted said,

"Say, 'Who has forbidden the beautiful [gifts] of
Allaah, which He has produced for His servants, and
the things clean and pure [which He has provided] for
sustenance?' Say, 'They are, in the life of this world,
for those who believe, and purely for them on the Day
of Judgement...'"
Also, Allaah the Exalted said,
"And He has subjected to you [as a favor from Him]
all that is in the heavens and on the earth..."
Further, Allaah the Exalted said,
"It is He Who has created for you all things that are
on earth..."
So, the duty of the Muslims is to hasten to acquire this
technology, and to surpass the Kuffaar in this technology, so that
Muslims do not need their help.

9 - Using their names...
Some of the Muslims give their children names different from
the names of their mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
communities, and tribes. The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
said,
"The best names are 'Abdur-Rahmaan and
'Abdullaah."

As a result of not using Muslim names in the past, many
Muslims now have strange names. Naming their children with
foreign names has caused a generation gap between this
generation and the last that splits families in two, with respect to
the name: those with the traditional Muslim names and those
with foreign names.

10 - Supplicating for them and being compassionate to
them...
Allaah forbade these actions by His statement,
"It is not fitting for the Messenger of Allaah and those
who believe that they should ask forgiveness for
Pagans, even though they are relatives, after it is clear
to them that they are companions of the Fire
[Jaheem]."
Supplicating and having compassion for them causes us to love
them and their [disgusting] practices.

Reply

Woodrow
10-21-2009, 03:58 AM
All you wrote and quoted in this post is correct to the best of my knowledge.


format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:

I must say that most of this is a scholar's own itjihad. However, there is a good evidence.Brother, we had a little issue about this a day ago. First comes Allah,subhana wa ta'ala, than Resul,saws, last, his inheritors. We do not outsmart them. We hear and obey.

Brother, you would be an angel, a melek, if all of your intentions were pure. Big sins start with the small ones. Can you always control your desires without knowing this? I don't think so.

This is information from Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan:

Indications Of Taking The Kuffaar As Friends (Mawlaat).

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.

2 - Residence in their lands and not moving from their
lands to the lands of the Muslims to save one's Deen.
(This is a concise meaning of Hijrah)...
Hijrah, according to this meaning, is an obligation upon every
Muslim.
Residence in the land of the Kuffaar indicates friendship with
them. Allaah forbade the Muslims from residing in the lands of
the Kuffaar, if they are able to make Hijrah. Allaah the Exalted
said:

"When angels take the souls of those who die while
they have wronged their souls, they say, 'ln what
[state] were you?' They reply: 'We were weak and
oppressed in the earth.' [The Angels] say: "Was not
the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to move
yourselves away [from evil]?' Such men will find
their abode in Hell, what an evil refuge! Except those
who are [really] weak and oppressed: men, women,
and children who have no means in their power, nor
can they find a way [to escape]. For these, there is
hope that Allaah will forgive, because Allaah blots out
[sins] and forgives again and again." 11

The Islaamic Law (Sharee'ah) permits people to reside in the
lands of the Kuffaar if, they give da 'wah and propagate Islaam.

3 - Travelling to the lands of the Kuffaar for tourism and
vacation...

The Sharee'ah forbids travelling to the land of the Kuffaar,
except for medical treatment, trading, and education that is only
available in their land. When the necessity has finished, then one
must return, immediately, to the land of the Muslims. Those
whom the Sharee 'ah permits to go to the land of the Kuffaar
must manifest their Deen, be away from the evil places, and be
cautious of the plotting of the enemies of Allaah. Also, the
Sharee 'ah permits going to the lands of the Kuffaar for da 'wah
and propagating Islaam.

4 - Helping them, giving them victory over the Muslims,
speaking well of them and defending their honour...
These are some of the actions that negate a person's Islaam. I
seek refuge in Allaah from that!

5 - Seeking their aid, trusting them, putting them in
positions to know the secrets of the Muslims and
making them advisors...
Allaah the Exalted said,

"O you who believe! Do not take into your
intimacy those outside your ranks. They will not
fail to corrupt you. They only desire for you to
suffer. Hatred has already appeared from their
mouths, and what their hearts conceal is far
worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if you
have wisdom. Ah! you are those who love them,
but they do not love you, though you believe in the
whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say,
"We believe,' but when they are alone, out of
frustration and rage, they bite off the tips of their
fingers because of you. Say: "Perish in your
frustration rage. Allaah knows well all of the
secrets of the heart.' If anything that is good
befalls you, it grieves them, but if some misfortune
overtakes you, they rejoice at it..."

The above verses show what is [really] in the hearts of the
Kuffaar about the Muslims, such as hatred, betrayal, evil

plotting, and the love for harm to affect them. They want harm to
reach them by any means. They use the trust of the Muslims to
plot against them. Imaam Ahmad narrated that Abu Moosa Al-
Ash'aari said,
(radhiallahu 'anhu)
"/ said to 'Umar (RAA): have a Christian (Nasrani)
clerk [employee]. He ['Umar] said: ^Why? May Allaah
fight you! Didn't you hear the saying of Allaah, the
Exalted, 'O you who believe! Do not take the Yahood
and the Nasaara for Awliyaa. They are Awliyaa to
each other...' Why don't you employ a Hanifan [a
Muslim] [as your clerk].' He [Abu Moosa] said, "O
Commander of the Believers (Ameerul-Mu'minoon), for
me is what he writes for me and to him is his Deen.' He
['Umar] said, "How can I honour them when Allaah has
humiliated them and how can I bring them near to me
when Allaah has made them far [from me]."'
Imam Ahmad and Muslim narrated that when the Messenger of
Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) went to the Battle of Badr, one of the pagans
followed him until he caught up to him at a place called Al-
Harra 1*. The pagan said,
"/ wanted to fight with you so that you can give me some
of the booty from the war." He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'Do you believe in Allaah and His Messenger?'
He [the pagan] said, Wo.' He [the Messenger of Allaah]
said, 'I will never seek help from a pagan!'

The above proofs from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the
Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) forbid us from allowing the pagans to
be in positions where they can know the secrets of the

Muslims. An example of this nowadays is when a Muslim
government brought the Kuffaar to their land as laborers, drivers,
maids, and baby sitters. Their bringing these Kuffar to their land
resulted in them mixing with the Muslims.

6 - Using their calendar instead of the Islaamic
calendar and, more importantly, observing the
holidays on their calendar, like Christmas...
Their holidays, like the birthday of the Messiah ('alaihis-
salaam), are not even from their Deen, but rather they are
holidays that they innovated in their Deen. So, using their
calendar means that we share their holidays, even though these
holidays are not from the Deen of the Messiah ('alaaihis-
salaam).

To be safe from falling into sharing their holidays, in the
Caliphate of 'Umar (radhiAllaahu 'anhu), the Companions (Sahaabah) (radhiAllaahu
'anhu ajma'een) made their own calendar. They made this calendar starting
from the date of the Hijrah of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
from Makkah to Madeenah. This precedent that was established by the Sahaba
(radhiAllaahu 'anhu ajma'een) shows us that we should not use the cale ndars of
the Kuffaar or other similar things that belong to them. And
Allaah is the Best to give help.

7 - Observing their holidays or helping them to make
that celebration or congratulating them for their
holidays or just being present at their celebrations...

The scholars say about the verse, "Those who witness no
falsehood...", that the description of the worshippers of the
Most Merciful is that they do not gather at the celebrations of the
Kuffaar.

8 - Speaking well of them through what they have of
material wealth and being satisfied with their behavior
without looking at their Deen which is a false Deen...
Allaah the Exalted said:

"Nor strain your eyes [O Muhammad] in longing for
the things We have given for enjoyment to partie s of
them- the splendor of the life of this world -through
which We test them. But the provision of your Lord is
better and more lasting."

This verse does not mean that the Muslims should not acquire
the means to be strong, like manufacturing and other things that
make the economy and land strong. Nor does this verse mean
that we should not learn military tactics, but rather, we are
required to acquire all of these things. Allaah the Exalted said,

"Against them make ready your strength to the
utmost of your power..."

The high standard of living originally belongs to the Muslims.
Allaah the Exalted said,

"Say, 'Who has forbidden the beautiful [gifts] of
Allaah, which He has produced for His servants, and
the things clean and pure [which He has provided] for
sustenance?' Say, 'They are, in the life of this world,
for those who believe, and purely for them on the Day
of Judgement...'"
Also, Allaah the Exalted said,
"And He has subjected to you [as a favor from Him]
all that is in the heavens and on the earth..."
Further, Allaah the Exalted said,
"It is He Who has created for you all things that are
on earth..."
So, the duty of the Muslims is to hasten to acquire this
technology, and to surpass the Kuffaar in this technology, so that
Muslims do not need their help.

9 - Using their names...
Some of the Muslims give their children names different from
the names of their mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
communities, and tribes. The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
said,
"The best names are 'Abdur-Rahmaan and
'Abdullaah."

As a result of not using Muslim names in the past, many
Muslims now have strange names. Naming their children with
foreign names has caused a generation gap between this
generation and the last that splits families in two, with respect to
the name: those with the traditional Muslim names and those
with foreign names.

10 - Supplicating for them and being compassionate to
them...
Allaah forbade these actions by His statement,
"It is not fitting for the Messenger of Allaah and those
who believe that they should ask forgiveness for
Pagans, even though they are relatives, after it is clear
to them that they are companions of the Fire
[Jaheem]."
Supplicating and having compassion for them causes us to love
them and their [disgusting] practices.

But none of that except for:

1 - Imitating them in dress and lingo...
Imitating them in dress and lingo indicates loving them, and
because imitation leads to love, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu
'alaihi wa sallam) said:
"Whoever imitates a people is one of them."
Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them. We should not imitate them in their
appearance and morals. Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.
Offers any guidance as to what imitating the Kufar is. Now in that this much seems to be indisputable:

Allaah forbids imitating the Kuffaar in their worship, traditions,
and things special to them


This is not quite as clear cut:

Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary,


How can that be avoided by reverts who only speak the language of the Kufar they came from? Come to think of it-- How about if nobody else speaks Arabic where you live? I am probably the only person in North Dakota who speaks Arabic. How would I speak with most of the members on this forum if I did not speak the Kufar language of English

Now in this part:

and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.


What if we are living in a Hindu section of India in which Muslims can easily be mistaken for Hindu as the clothing is very similar? Or how about if we are in Israel among the Jews as our eating guidelines are virtually identical? To an outsider it would appear we are imitating our kufr neighbors.

If we do not know what is in a Muslims intent in either of those cases do we have any way of knowing if he is trying to be a good Muslim or if he is actually a non-practicing Muslim trying to imitate his neighbors

I will say I can not say for certain I know what Imitating the Kufar is outside of thinking it is "the person is intending to be like them."
Reply

ardianto
10-21-2009, 03:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema

..... Also, we should not speak their
language, except when necessary, and we should not adopt their
way of dressing and eating.
Is it wrong if Muslim speak English, French, Mandarin, etc ?.
For many Muslims, non-Arabic language is their first language. Even my language is categorized as non-Islamic language because there is no word from my language in Qur'an.

Also, is it wrong if I dressed like European ?. I.e wear trouser and shirt.
Of course, I will not imitating rocker or punker.

And, is it wrong if I eat noodle and use chopstick ?.


Using their calendar instead of the Islaamic
calendar and,....
How about use dual calendar ?.


9 - Using their names...
Some of the Muslims give their children names different from
the names of their mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
communities, and tribes. The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)
said,
"The best names are 'Abdur-Rahmaan and
'Abdullaah."

As a result of not using Muslim names in the past, many
Muslims now have strange names. Naming their children with
foreign names has caused a generation gap between this
generation and the last that splits families in two, with respect to
the name: those with the traditional Muslim names and those
with foreign names.
My kids names are different than my name, my name is different than my father name. Because as Javanese we have no family name. Even my name is not Muslim name, that's mean my name is 'their name'.

I agree, we must give Muslim name to our kids. But I disagree if we cannot mix Muslim name with 'foreign' name. In fact, Muslim names are Arab Names, and not every Muslim is Arab.
I don't see anything wrong if an Indonesian use mixed name like, Abdullah Sukanda, or Abdurahman Nasution.
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 06:39 PM
:sl:
This goes for both of you:

156. Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Stay with what I have left you [without asking more]. Those before you were destroyed by their excessive questioning and disagreeing with their Prophets. When I forbid you to do something, avoid it, and when I command you to do something, do it as much as you are able." [Agreed upon]

Abu Nujayh al-'Irbad ibn Sariya said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave us a profound exhortation which made our hearts afraid and our eyes weep. We said, 'O Messenger of Allah, it is an exhortation which is as if it were bidding us farewell, so advise us. He said, 'I commend you to be fearful of Allah and to hear and obey, even if an [Abyssinian] slave is put in command over you. Any among you who live will see much disagreement, so you must hold to my Sunna and the Sunna of the rightly-guided and guiding khalifs. Hold onto it with your teeth. Beware of new matters. Every innovation is misguidance." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

You might say: "The scholar just added his own restrictions." No, he is advizing us to avoid falling into a sin.

In order to not cause fitna, we stay home. For this, its the same.

We should try our best to satisfy Allah while trying and avoiding everything that disatisfies Him.
Reply

dovelove
10-21-2009, 06:52 PM
hello

A good read mashAllah
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Non-...20Part%202.pdf

cheerio
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by dovelove
hello

A good read mashAllah
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Non-...20Part%202.pdf

cheerio
:sl:
A perfect link,alhamdulillah. Stick on the forum.
:wa:
Reply

Woodrow
10-21-2009, 08:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
This goes for both of you:

156. Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Stay with what I have left you [without asking more]. Those before you were destroyed by their excessive questioning and disagreeing with their Prophets. When I forbid you to do something, avoid it, and when I command you to do something, do it as much as you are able." [Agreed upon]

Abu Nujayh al-'Irbad ibn Sariya said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave us a profound exhortation which made our hearts afraid and our eyes weep. We said, 'O Messenger of Allah, it is an exhortation which is as if it were bidding us farewell, so advise us. He said, 'I commend you to be fearful of Allah and to hear and obey, even if an [Abyssinian] slave is put in command over you. Any among you who live will see much disagreement, so you must hold to my Sunna and the Sunna of the rightly-guided and guiding khalifs. Hold onto it with your teeth. Beware of new matters. Every innovation is misguidance." [Abu Dawud and at-Tirmidhi]

You might say: "The scholar just added his own restrictions." No, he is advizing us to avoid falling into a sin.

In order to not cause fitna, we stay home. For this, its the same.

We should try our best to satisfy Allah while trying and avoiding everything that disatisfies Him.
:sl:Ukhti,

We seem to be having a loss of communication. I am not disagreeing with any of what you quote. I am asking for clarification as to what constitutes imitating the Kufar. Does that mean anytime we do anything that is commonly done by the Kufar? One issue comes to mind the Amish women in this area dress nearly identical to the sunnah dress. My wife is often mistaken for being Amish because she wears the hijab which Amish women also wear.
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 08:40 PM
:sl:Akhi I'm sorry

I don't know. I'd say(just my opinion) that scholars just don't want us to imitate something that is forbidden under Islam, I guess. Like jeans( if you don't wear a dress over,or something) etc...

InshAllah, someone knowledgeable helps you brother.
Reply

glo
10-21-2009, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Can it be that imitating is related to our intention for doing something? Do we eat soup with a spoon because we want to eat as the kufar do or because it is an easy and practical way? Do we fly from New York to London because it is the travel of choice by the Kufar or is it because it is the safest and fastest way to make the journey. Either of those cold be imitayting the kufar as that is the way the kufar do so, but perhaps if our intent is to simply eat soup or get to London, that may be a different view of what it is.
Interesting point, Woodrow.
I agree that intention is probably at the heart of this.

To look at the argument from another perspective (which I find useful quite often), imitating Muslims does not make me a Muslim, does it?
I can give up pork, fast, even wear hijab ... but none of those things - although part of Islamic practice - make me a Muslim, unless I add to the actions the intentions and the thought processes and beliefs which 'make me a Muslim on the inside'.
What do you think?
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Interesting point, Woodrow.
I agree that intention is probably at the heart of this.

To look at the argument from another perspective (which I find useful quite often), imitating Muslims does not make me a Muslim, does it?
I can give up pork, fast, even wear hijab ... but none of those things - although part of Islamic practice - make me a Muslim, unless I add to the actions the intentions and the thought processes and beliefs which 'make me a Muslim on the inside'.
What do you think?
Glo, I don't mean to pick on you but it is the best for non-Muslims to start a thread and ask about this stuff if you think its too harsh or something.

And, in Islam we do not judge people by their appearance as you make it seem like. If I dressed like a kaffirah and in my heart I believed that there is only one God and that Muhammad is His messenger,truly, I would still be a Muslim. Intention in Islam is something very important. I f I prayed 17 times a day and my intentions were not IN THE NAME OF ALLAH all of my deeds would be void.The Prophet,saws, said that "deeds are by intention". Please check out th efollowing thread:http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...o-worship.html

You know an actor Jim Carry? He kept acting the way he did untill he became the way he acted. Even his wife divorced him because his behaviour was that of his movies.
Reply

glo
10-21-2009, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
Glo, I don't mean to pick on you but it is the best for non-Muslims to start a thread and ask about this stuff if you think its too harsh or something.

And, in Islam we do not judge people by their appearance as you make it seem like. If I dressed like a kaffirah and in my heart I believed that there is only one God and that Muhammad is His messenger,truly, I would still be a Muslim. Intention in Islam is something very important. If I prayed 17 times a day and my intentions were not IN THE NAME OF ALLAH all of my deeds would be void.The Prophet,saws, said that "deeds are by intention".
Hi Rasema

I think you misunderstood my post.

I neither said that the Islamic practices I mentioned (avoiding pork, fasting, wearing hijab) are too harsh, nor did I imply that Muslims judge people by their appearance.

In fact, I am agreeing with you. Being a Muslim is first and foremost a decision one makes insides one's heart. The actions alone do not make a Muslim.
Your sentence, which I highlighted in red, completely mirrors what I said in my previous post.
As a non-Muslim I can carry out all these actions, and yet not be a Muslim at all ...

Similarly, I would say that as a Muslim you can imitate kufar things (as long as they don't contradict your Islamic teachings) without having to fear that you somehow become a non-believer.
Do you agree?

I hope that makes my thoughts a little clearer.

As for starting a thread to ask things about Islam, I do that quite often too.
But on this occasion I was expressing my own thoughts and opinions. I hope that is okay. :)
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 09:37 PM
I neither said that the Islamic practices I mentioned (avoiding pork, fasting, wearing hijab) are too harsh, nor did I imply that Muslims judge people by their appearance.
I meant that if you think the scholars fatwa was harsh that you should ask someone with knowledge, above mine, about it.

I hope that makes my thoughts a little clearer.
Well, I'd like to be realistic. You can't give an example: If I wore the hijab and followed most of the commands of Islam and my intentions we're not "In the name of Allah" I wouldn't be a Muslim. Sorry if I misunderstood your example. But you would then follow those commands for some reason and that reason would not be that you desired to follow those commands. If you do desire these commands then that is what God does to those He chooses to giude.

The raeson the scholars don't want us to follow the example of non-Muslims. Not just non-,uslims but anybody who is dressed in a way that would cause attention... you know what I mean.
Best wishes on this life and the hereafter.
Reply

Woodrow
10-21-2009, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:Akhi I'm sorry

I don't know. I'd say(just my opinion) that scholars just don't want us to imitate something that is forbidden under Islam, I guess. Like jeans( if you don't wear a dress over,or something) etc...

InshAllah, someone knowledgeable helps you brother.
I think you are going to find that quite often we and the kufar do very similar things. It is not done with the intent for either to imitate the other, it is simply mutual adaptation of the same materials. Eating for example, nearly all foods eaten in the mid-eastern and Asian Islamic countries is derived from the food of Hindu India or pre-Islamic Turkey.

Surprisingly many foods now eaten through out the Islamic world had their origins in Kufar lands. For example do you know where Tomatoes, corn, potatoes, chile peppers, and many others originated? They all came from South America (a Kufar land) Muslims do not eat them to imitate the kufar, although they were initially eaten by the kufar. Can you or anybody else name any food that is specifically Muslim? We can name what foods are haram, but does that mean a vegetable from a kufar land is forbidden because to eat it is imitating the eating of what the kufar eat?

I think the intent of why we do something makes the difference between imitating and similarity. We do have many similarities with some kufar, but that does not mean we are imitating them.
Reply

Rasema
10-21-2009, 09:51 PM
:sl:
Brother, I'm not saying that you're intention is to imitate them. This is why the scholars are telling us to not imitate them because you would imitate them without knowing. It would lead us away from the sunna. Similarity is imitating, very close at least.

I have read by the scholar that it is not haram to eat with a fork for example, but it is sunna to eat with 3 fingers. Soon, we're all going to be greeting eachother with a 'hello'. Perfect example in the previous post. Sorry it just fitted with examples.
Reply

syilla
10-22-2009, 03:56 AM
It'll be hard for those who is working in the farm...not wearing jeans huhuhu
Reply

Rasema
10-22-2009, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
It'll be hard for those who is working in the farm...not wearing jeans huhuhu
:sl:
When Allah commands something, no thing, or no one, can decieve a believer. Look at the life of the ashaba. Besides, all it takes is a little used to.
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 12:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
When Allah commands something, no thing, or no one, can decieve a believer. Look at the life of the ashaba. Besides, all it takes is a little used to.
According to this fatwa there are conditions under which a woman can wear trousers.

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Wearing pants is not permissible for a woman except if it meets the following conditions:
First, the pants should be covered with another loose outer garment, which covers them.
Second, the pants of women should not be similar to those of men.
Third, the purpose of wearing pants should not be to imitate non-believing women.
Whenever the above conditions are met wearing pants becomes permissible.
Know that the dress of the woman should always be thick, loose and large enough to cover her whole body.
In addition to the above conditions if the dress is worn outside of her house it should not have any particular features that make it attractive or unusual.
All these conditions are set for the woman to protect her only and to protect her honour as well from humiliation or from being ravished by evil persons.
Finally a Muslimah should totally submit herself to the Commands of Allah. And should believe firmly that all benefits are only in following the Shariah, and all disadvantages are in disobeying Allah.
Please refer to the Fatwa: 81209.
It should also be noted that in most Islamic countries the prefered choice of clothing for women is the Kurta (Loose fitting long top) and the Pajama (Loose long trousers worn under the Kurta) This female attire has a very long history and quite likely some of the Muslim Women living during the time of Muhammad (PBUH) dressed in that manner.

Trousers did not become men's wear in the Western world until about the middle ages, up to then trousers were considered women's clothing. The men wore skirts similar to Scottish kilts.
Reply

syilla
10-23-2009, 12:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
When Allah commands something, no thing, or no one, can decieve a believer. Look at the life of the ashaba. Besides, all it takes is a little used to.
jeans are actually the material of the cloth...

the origins of the jeans are actually worn by the farmers...then it became a trend. so...the people nowadays are actually wearing the farmers cloth.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
jeans are actually the material of the cloth...

the origins of the jeans are actually worn by the farmers...then it became a trend. so...the people nowadays are actually wearing the farmers cloth.
:sl:

Brother Woodrow, excelent post. It does fitt with the thread.

Lo, sis syilla ^o) I've got to do some "shopping!!!! like OMG...." Yeah, I attend a public school so I wear pants and over them a dress down to my knees. I need to find non- farmer pants if they excist in stores. ANyways, off topic.
:wa:
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 01:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:

Brother Woodrow, excelent post. It does fitt with the thread.

Lo, sis syilla ^o) I've got to do some "shopping!!!! like OMG...." Yeah, I attend a public school so I wear pants and over them a dress down to my knees. I need to find non- farmer pants if they excist in stores. ANyways, off topic.
:wa:
If you can find a farm supply store such as Otasco or TSC you will find genuine working farm clothes that are designed for farm work and not fashion looks.

You can also find Oshkosh overalls on line. Those worn under a long top or dress would also fit the bill

Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
If you can find a farm supply store such as Otasco or TSC you will find genuine working farm clothes that are designed for farm work and not fashion looks.

You can also find Oshkosh overalls on line. Those worn under a long top or dress would also fit the bill
:sl:
I don't know anything about farm clothes but I can find good dresses in burlington(store). All pants are farm pants though:hiding:
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 01:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
I don't know anything about farm clothes but I can find good dresses in burlington(store). All pants are farm pants though:hiding:

Is this a joke?
My error. I snagged the picture from the catalog.

Aabidah wears pants when we are working with the horses. Quite often we have to ride horses that are not fully broken and we get thrown. Wearing a dress would not be practical or modest if any onlooker wandered by.
Reply

Muslim Woman
10-23-2009, 01:35 AM
:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:salamext:
O.M.G. Another Thread by Rasema
No problem with me :p anyone gave objection ?

.
scholars say that we cannot imitate the kufar in traditions,cloathing etc...
.
In my culture , normally hindu married women use ' tip ' ( a small red spot on forehead as a sign that she is married ) , wear white bangles etc. So , some say here that Muslim women must not use this tip or bangle as fashion to avoid the hindu culture .

Now a days , to remember a person who died , people put candles on a stage and remain silent . Islamic Scholars say Muslims must not do that as dead persons are not benifitted by any of these and this is not
something Prophet pbuh did for anyone.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
My error. . I snagged the picture from the catalog.

Aabidah wears pants when we are working with the horses. Quite often we have to ride horses that are not fully broken and we get thrown. Wearing a dress would not be practical or modest if any onlooker wandered by.
:sl:
Its okay my respected brother. "We all err". MashAllah, it is very nice to have animals.I misunderstood you. I just was talking about pants under the dress.Because any pants ar eimitation of kufr. Anyways, not a very prudent conversation.

Thanks for to help brother:)
:wa:
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:40 AM
:sl:
Thank you Muslim woman.
Now a days , to remember a person who died , people put candles on a stage and remain silent . Islamic Scholars say Muslims must not do that as dead persons are not benifitted by any of these and this is not
something Prophet pbuh did for anyone.
My mother got some candles. I should throw them out?
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 01:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Its okay my respected brother. "We all err". MashAllah, it is very nice to have animals.
:wa:
Here is another style of overalls.



The horses are part of our livelihood we raise and sell paint horses. Horses are still widely used on ranches up here.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:50 AM
Brother,It is haram to describe a woman. I know you have rights to erase posts so please do so.

Im sorry. No offence intended.

Thank you
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-23-2009, 01:51 AM
:sl:

1) We need to stop importing fatawa from other lands in issues that are not present in the land where the fatwa is being sought. There will be a lack of experience in the one from whom the fatwa is being sought and a discrepancy because he won't be aware of the situation of the place where the fatwa will be applied.

2) Following from that, we need to ask our local scholars who are learned in the religion AND in touch with the customs and situations of the land - that is the only way we'll get a fatwa suitable for our time and place.

3) There is nothing wrong with wearing the clothes of the land we live in, as long it isn't the clothes that the sinful people are known by or people of other religions. The Prophet (saw) wore the clothes of the 'Arabs (even though they were in Jahiliyyah) and when he dressed up on occasions such as 'Eid, he dressed up according to what was considered 'dressing up' in the culture of the land. He did not come to change the 'dress code' or form an "Islamic" line of clothing. This is of course with clothing that follows the Islamic guidelines (awrah is covered etc).

I heard from Shaykh Yaser Birjas, who said that he was with Sh. Uthaymeen and a person came to him from a foreign land and asked if wearing 'pants' was allowed or would it constitute 'imitation'. The Shaykh (rahimullah) asked if it was the norm of the land where he came from that everyone wore pants, and when the questioner replied 'yes' the Shaykh said then there is nothing wrong with it.
Reply

Muslim Woman
10-23-2009, 02:01 AM
:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:


My mother got some candles. I should throw them out?
Of Course No sis . Just don't think that if u lit the candles , it will benifit the dead persons.

In my country , for few hours we have to stay without electricity at night . In that case , we need to use candles . If your mom does not need these candles , u can give those to any needy people.
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Thank you Muslim woman.

My mother got some candles. I should throw them out?
Only if you are going to use them for a religious ritual. You youngsters growing up in the electric age. You have no memories of when candles where the primary means of lighting the house. I grew up in a rural area without electricity and to me candles are what light bulbs are to you.

I notice you live in Florida, you best keep candles on hand for when the electricity goes out from a hurrican.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:14 AM
:sl:
Okay, thanks for all. I really do appreciate it.

I don't understand when fatwas have different rulings to a different country. I can't distinguish between commands, disliked etc... here.Sorry I complain.
:wa:
Reply

Muslim Woman
10-23-2009, 02:22 AM
:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:


I don't understand when fatwas have different rulings to a different country.
I think the main point is don't follow disbelievers blindly . Some young people try to follow all western cultures like wearing ring in one ear or both ears .

Now a days many girls don't wear orna / long shawl here but boys started wearing this . O my God. Sometimes I want to laugh , sometimes I feel scared . Looks like end time is near . Girls are wearing dress of men , men are wearing dress like women - they forgot the warning of our Prophet pbuh - Allah curse these men and women.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:wa:



I think the main point is don't follow disbelievers blindly . Some young people try to follow all western cultures like wearing ring in one ear or both ears .

Now a days many girls don't wear orna / long shawl here but boys started wearing this . O my God. Sometimes I want to laugh , sometimes I feel scared . Looks like end time is near . Girls are wearing dress of men , men are wearing dress like women - they forgot the warning of our Prophet pbuh - Allah curse these men and women.
:sl:
May Allah change their hearts.
In my culture, it is sunnet for woman to wear earings. They say that you cannot pray without having earings on. What an invention! I figured out that this is not sunnet alhamdulillah.It is ridiculous when you see these hijabis with HEELS and tights, loud laughter etc...
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 02:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Okay, thanks for all. I really do appreciate it.

I don't understand when fatwas have different rulings to a different country. I can't distinguish between commands, disliked etc... here.Sorry I complain.
:wa:
Fatwas are normally issued by an Iman addressing specific events in his masjid. A fatwas normally is not binding it is basically an opinion and like all opinion the listener, reader needs to verify how and if it applies to him/her.

Perhaps this will help:

Definition: A fatwa is an Islamic religious ruling, a scholarly opinion on a matter of Islamic law.

A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.

As Muslims, we look at the opinion, the reputation of the person giving it, the evidence given to support it, and then decide whether to follow it or not. When there are conflicting opinions issued by different scholars, we compare the evidence and then choose the opinion to which our God-given conscience guides us.
SOURCE:http://islam.about.com/od/law/g/fatwa.htm
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
10-23-2009, 05:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:salamext:
O.M.G. Another Thread by Rasema:offtopic:

The scholars say that we cannot imitate the kufar in traditions,cloathing etc...
I wish that was more detailed. In my culture, candles are disliked becasue the kufis use them when they pray to :zip:

What is my question?
Give me as much information as you can.

May Allah,subHana wa ta'ala, reward you.
:wasalamex
try these sis :)
http://www.islamicboard.com/870355-post1.html
http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=21...&txt=imitating
Reply

OurIslamic
10-23-2009, 12:50 PM
I think the meaning is that we shouldn't follow their bad deeds, imitating the good ones is fine.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 12:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
I think the meaning is that we shouldn't follow their bad deeds, imitating the good ones is fine.
:sl:
Welcome to the forum.:statisfie
How do you know they are good deeds you're imitating?
For example, Resul,saws, told us to eat with three fingers, but here, everyone eats with a fork for example, and you would adopt that. It is not haram to eat with a spoon etc but it is better to eat the way Resul,saws, did.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 01:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umm ul-Shaheed
:salamext:

Powerful articles. I must thank you for sharing sister.May Allah reward you. I would like to paste it.

Guidelines concerning imitation of the kuffaar
What are the definitions of imitating the west? Does everything that is modern and new and has come to us from the west imply imitation of them? In other words, when can we say that something is haraam because it is an imitation of the kuffaar?.


Praise be to Allaah.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever imitates a people is one of them.’” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Libaas, 3512. Al-Albaani said in Saheeh Abi Dawood, (it is) hasan saheeh. No. 3401).

Al-Munaawi and al-‘Alqami said: i.e., dressing as they dress, following their way of life in clothes and some of the things they do.

Al-Qaari said: i.e., whoever imitates the kuffaar, such as in how one dresses, etc., or imitates the evil and immoral people, or the Sufis or the righteous, is one of the people whom he imitates, whether they are good or bad.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem: Imaam Ahmad and others quoted this hadeeth as evidence. This hadeeth at the very least implies that it is haraam to imitate them, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“... And if any amongst you takes them [Jews and Christians] as Awliyaa’ [friends, helpers]), then surely, he is one of them…”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

This is similar to the view of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr who said: “Whoever settles in the land of the mushrikeen and celebrates their Nawroz (new year) and Mahrajaan (festival) and imitates them until he dies will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection.” This may be interpreted as referring to absolute imitation which implies kufr and as meaning that imitation in part is therefore haraam; or it may be interpreted as meaning that he is one of them to the extent that he imitates them, whether it is in ideas of kufr, sin or partaking in a ritual. It was narrated from Ibn ‘Umar that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade imitating the non-Arabs and said, “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” This was also mentioned by al-Qaadi Abu Ya’laa. This was quoted by more than one of the scholars to show that it is makrooh to imitate forms of dress of the non-Muslims which are not known among the Muslims.

See ‘Awn al-Ma’bood Sharh Sunan Abi Dawood.

Imitating the kuffaar falls into two categories:

Imitation that is haraam and imitation that is permitted:

The first type is imitation that is haraam: this means knowingly doing things that are unique characteristics of the religion of the kuffaar and that have not been referred to in our religion. This is haraam and it may be a major sin; in some cases a person may even become a kaafir by doing that, according to the evidence, whether a person does that because he agrees with the kuffaar, or because of his whims and desires, or because of some specious arguments which make him feel that doing it will being him benefit in this world and the next. If it is asked, is the one who does that out of ignorance a sinner, such as one who celebrates Christmas? The answer is that the one who is ignorant is not a sinner because he was unaware, but he has to be told, and if he persists he becomes a sinner.

The second type is imitation that is permissible. This means doing something which is not originally taken from the kuffaar, but the kuffaar do it too. This does not involve a prohibition on resembling them, but one may miss out on the benefits of differing from them.

Imitating or resembling the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and others with regard to worldly matters is permissible only when the following conditions are met:

1 – That should not be any of their traditions or rituals by which they are distinguished.

2 – That should not be part of their religion. A matter can be proven to be part of their religion though a trustworthy source, such as an aayah of the Qur’aan or a hadeeth of His Messenger, or via well-established reports, such as the prostration of greeting which was permitted to the previous nations.

3 – That should not be anything in Islam which refers specifically to that matter. If there is a specific reference in Islam, either approving or disapproving of it, then we must follow what our religion says about it.

4 – This resemblance should not lead to going against any of the commands of sharee’ah.

5 – That should not involve celebrating any of their festivals.

6 – The resemblance should be only according to what is needed, and no more.

See al-Sunan wa’l-Athaar fi’l-Nahy ‘an al-Tashabbuh bi’l-Kuffaar by Suhayl Hasan, p. 58-59


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid




Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 01:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Welcome to the forum.:statisfie
How do you know they are good deeds you're imitating?
For example, Resul,saws, told us to eat with three fingers, but here, everyone eats with a fork for example, and you would adopt that. It is not haram to eat with a spoon etc but it is better to eat the way Resul,saws, did.

Some things are obvious we should not imitate. Those are the things we know to be haram such as drinking alcohol or eating pork. For things that do not appear to be haram, I believe the question we need to ask our selves is "Why do we want to do it?"

There is a fine line between imitating and doing out of practicality. Because a Muslim does something that is commonly done by Kufar does not in itself mean we are doing it to imitate them, it can simply be the best, most logical or the only way to do it. Our reason and intent for doing a thing is a good guide to see if we are doing it to imitate.

A good thing to remember is:

Surah Al-Maeda

5:87. O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess: for Allah loveth not those given to excess. S P
C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation



On a further note:

In Madinah certain Muslims showed a tendency toward asceticism, denying themselves some permissible pleasures. Then, in order to keep them within the limits set by Himself and bring them back to the straight path of Islam, Allah revealed the following strongly-worded verses: You who believe! Do not make haram the good things which Allah has made halal for you, and do not transgress; indeed, Allah does not like the transgressors. And eat of what Allah has provided for you, lawful and good, and fear Allah, in Whom you are believers. (5:87-88)
Taken from this source: http://www.halaldiets.com/articlesview.aspx?id=12
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:04 PM
:sl:
Thanks brother. Excellent reminder. However, I am saying that we should imitate Arabs(those in the early three generations). Not foreigners. Muslims lead they aren't led.Thanks
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2009, 02:09 PM
rasema your own answer is best


imitation happens by intention


if you happen to wear the same clothing or use the same peripheral or apparatus due to necessity and convenience then whats the harm? however if you do it to "FIT IN" and "JOIN THE CROWD" then that is entirely another matter.


Its all in the intention..

Assalamu Alaikum
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Thinker
10-23-2009, 02:19 PM
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?

Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
Is it because non-Muslims are the enemy and there is a need to be able to identify friend from foe?
Some other reason?
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Snowflake
10-23-2009, 02:25 PM
^To prevent imitation leading to innovation and because a muslim should be distinguishable from a non muslim.
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Thinker
10-23-2009, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
^To prevent imitation leading to innovation
I don’t understand what that means?

format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
because a muslim should be distinguishable from a non muslim.
Why does God want Muslims to be distinguishable from a non-Muslims
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Woodrow
10-23-2009, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
:sl:
Thanks brother. Excellent reminder. However, I am saying that we should imitate Arabs(those in the early three generations). Not foreigners. Muslims lead they aren't led.Thanks
True we should be as much like them as possible. In that aspect the Ahadeeth are probably our best guides.

At the same time we must remember that some of the life they lived is unique to Arabs living in a desert climate and can not be duplicated elsewhere. While we can not imitate their physical aspects of life we can strive to imitate their worship and love of Allaah(swt)
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julesfly
10-23-2009, 02:32 PM
I suppose the confusing thing is where to draw the line. Kufar technology, engineering, art. Is participation in or benefiting from these imitation?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2009, 02:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .
we are not christians, we only take from the words of our beloved Prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam and from the Quran, if anything a sheikh says contradicts islam we reject it !

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?
To distinguish us and keep the influential minimal (are a few reasons im sure God knows best and there are many more).


Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
They live in defiance of God. So naturally they are not in the Guidance of God, so we differ out of fear that following their ways - may lead to following misguidance. Makes sense?
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?

Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
Is it because non-Muslims are the enemy and there is a need to be able to identify friend from foe?
Some other reason?
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .
Shaik X,Y,Z, is stating a fatwa."A fatwa is an Islamic religious ruling, a scholarly opinion on a matter of Islamic law."
God does will what He does, but we choose to do what we do.

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?
God gave us all free will to be what we want to be. But God invites us all to be Muslims. Someone who submits him/her self to the will of God.This question I'll try to answer below.

Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
How should we live? What is justice? ...
If God gives you life He gives you a way of life(Islam e.i. submition to God). True Muslims try their best to satisfy God while trying and avoiding to the highest degree that what dissatisfies God. As simple as that. We do not hate you or think that you're bad. You simply follow your desired and us try our best to stay away from any temptation for example.

Is it because non-Muslims are the enemy and there is a need to be able to identify friend from foe?
That is true in a way. but God has hdden a great portion to His commands. If you exclude yourself from Islam then: Al-Kafiroon
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say: O disbelievers! (1) I worship not that which ye worship; (2) Nor worship ye that which I worship. (3) And I shall not worship that which ye worship. (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (6)


I basicly elaborated what Sents of Jennah had said.
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Thinker
10-23-2009, 02:42 PM
[QUOTE=IbnAbdulHakim;1232868]
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
we are not christians, we only take from the words of our beloved Prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam and from the Quran, if anything a sheikh says contradicts islam we reject it !
So are you saying that in this instance the Sheikh is differing from the teachings of the Qu’ran?

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
To distinguish us and keep the influential minimal (are a few reasons im sure God knows best and there are many more).
So are you saying that God wants you to appear differently but you don’t know why?

format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
They live in defiance of God. So naturally they are not in the Guidance of God, so we differ out of fear that following their ways - may lead to following misguidance. Makes sense?
It only makes sense if you are so insecure in your beliefs and your commitment is so weak that you fear that wearing similar clothes (for example) will lead you astray.
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ardianto
10-23-2009, 02:45 PM
I am back.
At first, let me change Kufar into Westerner because I think kufar is too rude.

I tried to collect some statement from Indonesian Ulamas regarding imitating the westerner.

Imitating westerner are :

- Use foreign language as main language. In example : Indonesian, living in Indonesia but always speak English with another Indonesian.

- Celebrating non Islamic new year and other non Islamic event like valentine day.

- Use candlestick without necessary. I.e : for decoration or as a symbol of something (peace, dead victim in tragedy, etc), but Muslims are allowed to use candlestick as a light in the dark or for prevent flies come to lunch table.

- Painting body with tattoo. Permanent or temporary.

- Having girlfriend / boyfriend. Engagement.

- Adopt western weeding style and wear western weeding dress.

- (For women) Have conception, career is first, family and marriage is second. I.e : Refuse to marry, refuse to having baby, refuse to take care husband and children, and spend her time, attention and concentration only for career.

- Adopt non-Islamic views/concepts such as secularism, liberalism and similar views/concepts. But learn these views/concepts is allowed.

- Imitating western persons. I.e coloring hair like westerner or change a face with plastic surgery to make it looked like westerner.

- Naming baby with full western name.

- Wear inappropriate dress like sexy dress, or wear inappropriate accessories like punk accessories, wear earring for men, etc.

- Have a conception, western is better than eastern.

- Extreme feminism.
Extreme concept of feminism : men and women are equal in every matter.

- Take an inappropriate westerner as an idol, such as rock singer, sexy actress.

- Accept woman as a leader of the people.

- Thinking, use condom is the best way to prevent AIDS.
(Because the best way to prevent AIDS is not committing free sex).

- And many more.



Mostly Indonesian Ulamas say, not every matter that come from western is bad. Muslims can accept (not adopt) western culture but must selective. Take only the good, leave everything that bad.

That means

- Muslims can eat western foods such as spaghetti, sandwich, steak as long as these food are halal. And Muslims are allowed to use fork and knife in eating.

- Muslims are allowed to wear western style clothes as long as those clothes as appropriate. Muslim women can wear pants/trouser if necessary but must wear hijab. (In Muslim hospital, nurses wear pants because if they wear long Muslimah dress, they cannot run fast in case of emergency).

- Muslims are allowed to naming their baby with western names that has modified to local name, but must mixed with local name. Example of this western names are Dani, Rudi, Toni, etc.

- Muslims are allowed to learn western knowledge but must reject everything that against Islam. I.e, Muslims can learn evolution theory but not for believe human is cousin of ape.

- And many more.
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Thinker
10-23-2009, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rasema
How should we live? What is justice? ...
If God gives you life He gives you a way of life(Islam e.i. submition to God). True Muslims try their best to satisfy God while trying and avoiding to the highest degree that what dissatisfies God. As simple as that. We do not hate you or think that you're bad. You simply follow your desired and us try our best to stay away from any temptation for example.
Indeed but you have not answered my question – why does God want Muslims to dress differently from non-Muslims. Is it simply that you have been told by a scholar that this is what He wants but you not know why He wants that?
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:49 PM
It only makes sense if you are so insecure in your beliefs and your commitment is so weak that you fear that wearing similar clothes (for example) will lead you astray.
Again, we try our best to satisfy God and try our best to not displease Him. This is not about me fearing its about me desiring to please God.I hope this is clear to you.
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 02:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Indeed but you have not answered my question – why does God want Muslims to dress differently from non-Muslims. Is it simply that you have been told by a scholar that this is what He wants but you not know why He wants that?
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever imitates a people is one of them.’” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Libaas, 3512. Al-Albaani said in Saheeh Abi Dawood, (it is) hasan saheeh. No. 3401

Would you imitate a Muslim? Why would you dress like a Muslim scholar for example?I mean comon. What kind of a question is this? Why don't you run oround naked?
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IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2009, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
It only makes sense if you are so insecure in your beliefs and your commitment is so weak that you fear that wearing similar clothes (for example) will lead you astray.
Dear sir,

how is one to reply to such a statement? other then saying that... you simply underestimate the devil and his plotting.

It takes a glance to fall into fornication,
it takes a sip to of whine to fall into insanity,
it takes a thought.. to fall into corruption.


this of course isnt for every situation, but the Devil is certainly capable of seducing the best of us towards it. Thus we follow "Prevention before Cure".


I hope that clarifies it a bit more
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Woodrow
10-23-2009, 02:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?

Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
Is it because non-Muslims are the enemy and there is a need to be able to identify friend from foe?
Some other reason?
Some of each seems to apply. To understand you will need to view the world as being either Muslim or non-Muslim. That does not mean we can not co-exist.

As Muslims we do believe things non-Muslims do not believe. As a result of living our beliefs, we do eat, dress and act different from non-Muslims to some extent. Without the observable differences we would not be Muslim. A Muslim who attempts to appear as a non-Muslim is doing so at the risk of doing things in violation of his/her beliefs. While a foe would be a non-Muslim it does not mean all non-Muslims are foes. Muslims and non-Muslims have a long history of co-existing together even with each retaining their own identity. While to some degree it can be said that our differences in appearance serves to distinguish foe from friend that is more incidental than intentional. It is true we do see all Muslims as being of the same Ummah and that our differences do serve to help us recognize our Brothers and Sisters in Islam. But that is not our primary goal. Our differences in appearance is no more than our desire to obey Allaah(swt) as best as we can.
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Thinker
10-23-2009, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
career is first, family and marriage is second
Men and women are equal in every matter.
Accept woman as a leader of the people.
Are you saying that God doesn’t want Muslim women to have a career, to believe they are equal to Muslim men and Muslim men cannot have a Muslim woman as their leader? Well indeed you are that is what you’ve said but surely God made us all equal?
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Are you saying that God doesn’t want Muslim women to have a career, to believe they are equal to Muslim men and Muslim men cannot have a Muslim woman as their leader? Well indeed you are that is what you’ve said but surely God made us all equal?
Open a biology book. Does a female look like a male? We are not talking about souls here nor knowledge. But science does say that woman think differently than men, in some way. However, that doesn't mean that woman are stupid, or that men are smarter.A Muslim woman can have a career.
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Rasema
10-23-2009, 03:09 PM
Please read this article. We are going off topic.

WOMEN IN ISLAM


In the name of Allah the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Islam is the fastest growing way of life in the west with 80% of the converters to Islam in the USA and the majority in the UK being women ( The Times newspaper) if you know little about women in Islam you should ask your self why so many liberated western women want to become Muslim? Why not ask practicing Muslim women about their faith and oppression rather than listen to the propaganda we hear regularly in the media.

THE LIBERATION OF WOMEN

Islam liberated women 1400 years ago and continues to liberate women today. Many people are surprised to find out that Islamic law guaranteed rights for women 1400 years ago that women in Europe and America only obtained recently. For example Islam clearly teaches that a woman is a full-person under the law and is the spiritual equal of a male. They have the right to own property, operate a business and receive equal pay for equal work. They cannot be married against their will, are allowed to keep their own name when married and have the right to divorce. They have the right to inherit property and to have their marriage annulled due to neglect and mistreatment. The right that women received 1400 years ago under Islam were almost unheard of in the west till the 1900s and some of these rights women are still fighting for today…..

Let’s look at some of these right and privileges in more details……

KINDNESS TO THE WIFE

At the time of the emergence of Islam it was socially accepted by most societies to treat women poorly and to favour males. Islam made it a part of faith to treat women well. The prophet Mohamed (pbuh) taught “the most perfect amongst believers in faith is the best in conduct. And the best of you is the best to his wife”

THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION

Islam emphasises the importance of education and bringing up girls well. The prophet (pbuh) said “seeking of knowledge is obligatory on every Muslim”. He (pbuh) also taught that those who educated and provided for 2 daughters or sisters till they became independent the Allah (swt) would grant them paradise.

THE HONOUR OF THE MOTHER

The mother has a very honoured position in Islam. The prophet (pbuh) advised a man who asked “o messenger (pbuh) of Allah who among the people is the most worthy of my good company?” The prophet (pbuh) said, “Your mother”. The man asked, “Then who else?” the prophet said "your mother”. The man asked “then who else?” so the prophet (pbuh) replied again “your mother”. Then the man asked “then who else?” the prophet (pbuh) said “your father”.
This shows that the mother is given three times the likes of kindness and good treatment as the father.
Kindness to both parents is considered in Islam to be next to the worship of Allah (swt).
“your lord has decreed that you worship none save Allah, and that you be kind to your parents”. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour”. (Qur’an 17:23).

THE RIGHT TO WORK, EQUAL PAY, INHERITANCE

In Islamic law women have the right to own and inherit property, operate a business and receive equal pay for equal work. Women are allowed to work, especially in positions which are needed by society e.g. nursing, teaching and medicine. However it should be stated first that Islam teaches that a women’s role in society as a mother and a wife are the most sacred and essential. The man in Islam has to provide and maintain his wife, his children and in some cases his needy relative especially the females. This responsibility is not reduced even if his wife is wealthy or she has her own personal income. This variation of financial responsibility between man and women is reflected in the inheritance rights, she inherits less because her financial responsibility is less.

MARRIAGE

Marriage in Islam is based on love and mercy as mentioned the Qur’an (30:21). It is a means to perpetuate human life and is a source of emotional well being and spiritual harmony. The Qur’an emphasises this essential unity of man and women in a beautiful simile: “they (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them.” (Qur’an 2:187).
Just as a garment hides our nakedness a husband and a wife, by entering into the relationship of marriage, secure each other’s chastity. The garment gives comfort to the body; similarly the husband gives comfort to his wife and vice verse. The garment is grace, beauty and embellishment of the body, so too is the wife to the husband and the husband to the wife. Instead of being forced to marry against her their will, Muslim women are allowed to play an active part in choosing their husband. And do not (like many people believe) have to marry anyone against their will. Indeed a marriage against the will of the girl is invalid in Islamic law. The status of being an individual partner in marriage is emphasised by the fact the woman keeps her maiden name after marriage. This is the opposite of what occurs in the west which itself is based on the Greco-roman culture, where women took the name of the husband, because the women was considered the property of the men.

THE RIGHT OF DIVORCE

Unlike other religions where women are not allowed to divorce and are considered adulteresses if they marry again (Mathew 5:32). Divorce is allowed in Islam. However it is not encouraged. If it is done, it must be amicable and both parties must speak kindly and with dignity to each other.

THE EQUALITY OF WOMEN

Numerous verses of the Quran make it clear that men and women are equal in the sight of Allah. According to Islam the only thing that distinguishes a person is their level of Allah-consciousness. “For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah’s praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward” (Qur’an 33:35).

RAPE

The respect in which women and their bodies are held in Islam is emphasised by the punishment men for rape. In this country men can get out of jail in a few years. In the Judaeo-Christian teachings, there is hardly a punishment at all for the man; the suffering seems to be for the girls!!! “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives” (Deuteronomy 22:28-30). However, a man found guilty of rape in an Islamic society could face the death penalty. This indicates the gravity with which Muslims view crimes against women.

POLYGAMY

Polygamy, as a practice has exited for centuries. Interestingly many Jews and Christians criticise Islam for polygamy. However, most of the prophets in the Old Testament had numerous wives. Also Jesus (pbuh) never criticized or cancelled the Jewish law on polygamy, thus implicitly agreeing with it. In the past, polygamy was almost completely unrestricted, men taking as many wives as they wanted, and often abusing and maltreating them Islam, however restricted the practice to a maximum of 4, and men were ordered to deal justly between them. Each wife has rights and must be provided for equally. “Marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then marry only one.” (Qur’an 4:3). Although polygamy is allowed, in Islam, it is unusual to see men with more than 1 wife. However, the practice of polygamy has many benefits. There are more women in the world than men (i.e. women live longer, the extra genetic information in a women’s extra x-chromosome has been shown to protect female babies from death in the womb or soon after birth) and this is worsened in times of war. Therefore, polygamy is a way of ensuring all women can get married. Thus as married women they can be maintained financially and can be a wife & a mother.

CONCLUSION

To understand the status of women in Islam, we need to realise that Islam asserts that although men and women are equal in the sight of Allah (swt), they are inherently different; therefore the laws governing them are different. It is clear that many “Muslims” (often due to ignorance or culture) treat their wives badly, but this is a flaw of the individual and not the religion. The basic reason why Muslims do anything is because we believe that the Qur’an is one of Allah’s (swt) miracles, the word of Allah, in a complete and unadulterated form, and Mohamed (pbuh) is his final messenger, and as such we fol low the divine teachings. Why not find out for yourself if the Qur’an is really a miracle, it is still unchanged today (as prophesised). Check yourself if they are the words of god. Why not find out more about the man Mohamed (PBUH)? Was he really a messenger of god? “and if you are in doubt as to what we have revealed to our servant then produce a chapter like it and call your witnesses or helper beside god if you are truthful, but if you cannot, and of a surety you cannot, then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones which is prepared for those who reject faith.” Qur’an 2:22-3. You owe it to yourself to find out, after all women are not badly treated in Islam. Maybe Islam is not what you thought it was either….

May allah guide us all.....amiin

Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2009, 03:23 PM
doublt post
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
10-23-2009, 03:28 PM
This is for the muslims !

Assalamu Alaikum


Question:Is It Always Impermissible To Imitate the Dress of Non-Muslims?
Answer:

salamu `alaykumHave you ever seen a brother walking around with a t-shirt on? Someone wearing a tie? Dress pants? A sister wearing jeans, modestly covered by a lengthy upper-garment? If you have, then you have also probably seen someone mentioning the impermissiblity of doing so due to it being an imitation of the non-Muslims, something the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) emphatically forbade.

It is narrated in the Sunan of Abu Dawud (#4032) that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said:

من تشبه بقوم فهو منهم

“He who imitates a nation is from them.”

He (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) also said, as narrated by Imam Tirmidhi in his Sunan:

“He is not from us who resembles other than us.”

Similarly, there are many other narrations from the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) that command the Muslims to avoid imitating specific groups. For the sake of brevity these narrations will not be mentioned.

From this, one may conclude that imitating the non-Muslims in any way, shape, or form is interdicted by the shari`ah . This, however, is not the case as the scholars of the religion make clear in their expositions.
The Linguistic Meaning of “Shabbaha”

The word is derived from the root sh-ba-ha and indicates “likeness, similitude, assimiliation, parable, resemblance”. For example, it is said:

شبہه به

“He made it to be like it”

It also comes in the meaning of مثله , as in Urdu we say “ mithal ke tor pe “, to mean “comparison” or “likeness”. Thus, one states:

شبہت الشىء بالشىء

“I placed the thing [in place] of the other thing.”

What is signified by this is a common attribute shared by the two “things”. So, here it comes in the meaning of, for example, “The brightness is like this brightness” or “The hardness is like this hardness” or “`Ali is like a lion” and so forth. Another eample of this is:

ومنه : أشبه الولد أباه : إذا شاركه في صفة من صفاته

“The son resembled his father, when he shared in an attribute from his attributes.”

The Legal Definition & Conditions Of Impermissibility

The Mawsu`at al Fiqhiyya states that the scholars of law did not stray from this linguistic usage of “ shabbaha”. This is because the linguistic meaning of a word is taken into consideration when formulating the legal meanings of expressions. Thus, for example, the reason why the Hanafi scholars consider intention to be an obligatory condition for the validity of one’s tayammum is because the word “ tayammum ” - in its linguistic sense - carries the meaning of “directing oneself” (qasd). This is mentioned by Imam Zayla`i in his Tabiyin al Haqa’iq :

التيمم في اللغة القصد قال الله تعالى { ولا تيمموا الخبيث } أي لا تقصدو

Defining “imitation”, Mufti Taqi `Usmani states in his Taqrire Tirmidhi (Vol 2, Pg: 331):

“‘Imitation’ (tashabbah) is (a word) used for one who directs himself (qasd), of his own accord, to a specific group in order to imitate them and be like them.”

It is important here to note the stipulation of “directing oneself” or “resolving” to imitate the disbelievers as a condition for impermissible “imitation”. This condition was also mentioned by Ibn `Abidin in his Radd al Muhtar and Imam Haskafi in his Durr al Mukhtar . Imam Haskafi stated:

وجوزه الشافعي بلا كراهة وهما بها للتشبه بأهل الكتاب : أي إن قصده ؛ فإن التشبه بهم لا يكره في كل شيء ، بل في المذموم وفيما يقصد به التشبه ، كما في البحر .

“(s: Regarding reading from the mushaf in salah ) And it was permitted by Shafi`i, without dislike, and the two companions (s: of Abu Hanifa) considered it disliked because it was an imitation of the People of the Book i.e. with the intent/resolve to do so. Indeed, imitation of them is not disliked in all things, but (only) in (the imitation) of the unlawful and in imitation with the resolve to be like them.”

Ibn `Abidin states in his commentary:

قال هشام: رأيت على أبي يوسف نعلين مخصوفين بمسامير ، فقلت : أترى بهذا الحديد بأسا ؟ قال لا قلت : سفيان وثور بن يزيد كرها ذلك لأن فيه تشبها بالرهبان ؛ فقال { كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يلبس النعال التي لها شعر } وإنها من لباس الرهبان . فقد أشار إلى أن صورة المشابهة فيما تعلق به صلاح العباد لا يضر ، فإن الأرض مما لا يمكن قطع المسافة البعيدة فيها إلا بهذا النوع . ا هـ وفيه إشارة أيضا إلى أن المراد بالتشبه أصل الفعل : أي صورة المشابهة بلا قصد .

“Hisham said: ‘I saw on Abu Yusuf two sandals with crampons and said, ‘Do you wear this out of distress?’ He replied, ‘No’. I said, ‘Sufyan and Thawr ibn Yazid disliked it because it resembles the monks’. He stated, ‘The Prophet wore sandals which had hairs on it.” (Ibn `Abidin states) Indeed, it (such sandals) are from the dress of the monks. Verily this points to the fact that such appearance of imitation linked to the righteous servants was not harmful… and in it is also an indication regarding the basis of such imitative action - it was an appearance of imitation without resolve (s: to be like them).”

In the Mawsu`at it states:

والتشبه في غير المذموم وفيما لم يقصد به التشبه لا بأس به

“And imitation in other than the unlawful and in what one does not resolve to imitate (the non-Muslims in), then there is no harm in it.”

Mufti Taqi `Usmani further says:

“Imitation, without resolve or intent (s: to imitate the non-Muslims) is not prohibited even though one resembles the non-Muslims due to it.”

Another aspect that falls into impermissible “imitation” is something that is specifically a sign of the non-Muslims, such as wearing a cross, a yamaka , and its like - such that an onlooker would consider that person from among such people. This is prohibited.

أن يكون التشبه في الوقت الذي يكون اللباس المعين شعارا للكفار ، وقد أورد ابن حجر حديث أنس رضي الله عنه أنه رأى قوما عليهم الطيالسة ، فقال : كأنهم يهود خيبر ثم قال ابن حجر : وإنما يصلح الاستدلال بقصة اليهود في الوقت الذي تكون الطيالسة من شعارهم ، وقد ارتفع ذلك فيما بعد ، فصار داخلا في عموم المباح ا

Therefore, it can be stated that “Prohibition of Imitation” of the non-Muslims comes into effect in one of two ways:

(1) Either through one’s directing oneself in imitating them, of his own accord, with the intention of being like them, or

(2) Through imitation of something religiously or otherwise unique to them, in a way that would allow an onlooker to consider one as “one of them”.

Interpreting the Narration “He who imitates a nation…”

From what has preceded, it can be seen that the narration prohibiting imitation can be interpreted in two ways:

(1) If “imitation” here is taken in its linguistic capacity to mean “general likeness” then the the general usage of the word “imitation” will be considered as an application of “the universal used in terms of the speicifc” (`aam makhsus). This is easily gleaned from the fact that specific aspects such as eating, drinking, sleeping, and so forth are precluded - by default - since imitation in them cannot be avoided. Imam Ibn `Abidin states in his work:

مطلب في التشبه بأهل الكتاب ( قوله لأن التشبه بهم لا يكره في كل شيء ) فإنا نأكل ونشرب كما يفعلون بحر عن شرح الجامع الصغير لقاضي خان

“(imitation of them is not disliked in all things) such as our eating and drinking…”

(2) If “imitation” is taken in its legal sense then the narration is specific from the very get go to mean what was mentioned earlier. Thus, what is meant is that imitation of the non-Muslims is only prohibited if one of the two conditions previously mentioned above are met.

The Role of Custom (`Urf) In Defining “Imitative” Aspects

Despite the fact that the conditions for prohibited imitation are fundamentally twofold, some people may still argue that these conditions are actually effectively met by wearing the clothes of the “westerners”.

The fallacy of such an argument is, firstly, that no Muslim in the west wakes up in the morning and intends to wear jeans to imitate the non-Muslims, or T-Shirts, or Calvin Klein dress shoes, or Nike. Even if specific people do, this is not a sufficient criteria for a general ruling or prohibition.

Secondly, the “west” as a “nation” includes both Muslims and non-Muslims and it can no longer be said that the western dress is an exclusively “non-Muslim” one. Thus, such clothing is *not* a distinct and unique sign of non-Muslims. The principle here is, as Maulana Ashraf `Ali Thanawi and others mention, that if something becomes customary and general in a land then the prohibition of imitation is lifted.

Maulana Thanawi states in his Tuhfat al `Ulema (Vol 2, Pg 130):

“If wearing coats and pants became customary here (in India)… then it will not be prohibited to wear.”

Similarly, he stated (Ibid, Pg: 131):

“It was asked whether it is permitted for women to wear cuffs on the sleeves of their upper-garments? The reply was that wherever it is considered an imitation of men it is forbidden and wherever it is not then it is permitted.”

(Note here that the same conditions apply for women imitating men and vice versa as stipulated previously)

He also said (Ibid, Pg: 130; Imdad al fatawa, Vol 3):

“A person inquired that if a Muslim is residing in London and dresses in a shirt and pants does this count as imitiation of the non-Muslims? It was replied that this is not considered imitation because there, in London, such dress is not thought of as something extrinsic to the land. Rather, everyone wears such clothing. If over here (the subcontinent) coats and pants become customary then it would not be forbidden here also.”

Mufti Taqi `Usmani On The Principles Of Dress

Mufti Muhammad Taqi `Usmani, one of the elading scholars of the Hanafi school in our times, said ( Taqrir ):

“The law has given much flexibility as it relates to the fiqh of dress, and has not made necessary on the ummah any specific form of dress whose opposing would be impermitted. Rather, Islam has laid down general principles related to dress and has made permissible for people to wear any type of clothing as long as it conforms to these guidelines. “

These principles are, in summary:

(1) The covering of the `awra , which for men is from just below the navel upto and including the knee and, for women, all of her body except her hands, face, and feet.

(2) The total avoidance of imitating the opposite sex.

(3) The total avoidance of imitating the non-Muslims.

(4) The total avoidance of wearing dress for the purpose of displaying arrogance and not being excessive.

(5) The total avoidance of wearing that which has been interdicted, such as silk (for men), dragging the garment out of pride (for men), and so forth.

An Answer On Women’s Clothing: Ustadha Shazia Ahmed

Q. Must a teenager wear a jilbaab once she reaches puberty? If her clothes are not tight fitting, does it not suffi

In the name of Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate.

Once a woman reaches the age of puberty (and a little before it, too), she must in front of marriageable men:

a) cover her body with clothing that is

1) loose; tight-fitting clothes are unlawful

2) thick enough such that the color of the skin does not show through

3) and long enough to cover the body;

She should also try not to wear clothing that attracts attention according to the culture of the area where she lives. For example, bright colors are perfectly normal in some parts of Africa, whereas they would turn heads in some parts of Canada.

As long as she fulfills these conditions, she is not obliged to wear the Arab style jilbab or abaya.

More importantly though, is modesty in her character. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and give him peace, said that modesty is a branch of faith and in another hadith, he said that it only brings good. Modesty is lacking in today’s times, so whoever is blessed with this characteristic, has indeed been given a beautiful quality.

And Allah knows best.

Link

Further, for men, somewhat tight clothing that does not clearly define their `awra is slightly disliked. Tight clothing that fully defines the shape and form of the `awra would be prohibitively disliked and sinful.

Conclusion

This was a general summary of the issue. Simply, wearing the everyday clothes most of us wear is perfectly fine. One should, though, try to avoid modern day fashion brands that are signs of the corrupt - as wearing such clothes does have spiritually negative effects regardless of whether we “feel” it or not.

However, one should equally strive to emulate the prophetic sunna . It is highly recommended to follow the sunnas of dress, which are general principles one should follow not limited to any specific type of clothing. The prophetic message was for all mankind and not merely a specific group. Thus, we see in the sunna these general principles that are applicable everywhere.

Among the sunna actions of dress are:

(a) Keeping the pants above the ankles,

(b) For women to keep their garments lengthy, such that one’s `awra does not become uncovered when doing everyday actions,

(c) Being moderate i.e. neither too lavish nor too tattered. Imam Sarkhasi said that the way of moderation in dress is sometimes wearing ones best clothes (even when alone to test one’s intention for Allah, not only doing so in front of people), usually wearing moderate clothes, and sometimes wearing old and worn-out clothes. The latter is for the purpose of realizing one’s blessings and being thankful.

(d) Wearing white (sign of purity) and black (sign of majesty) are both from the sunna ,

(e) For men to cover their heads,

(f) Being generally modest, and

(g) Not causing undue attention, and striking a balance between following the sunna and this.

Further, one should also avoid pride, arrogance, and forgetting the Divine favors bestowed upon one. One should be wary of ulterior motives.

Like food and drink, clothing is a blessing from Allah. It is like a gift and the least that is expected of one is to not use such a gift in disobeying or doing anything against the giver of the gift. This is the lowest level of thankfulness (shukr).

It is pertinent to note here that the blessings bestowed upon us by Allah are aspects which we have done nothing to earn. Rather, it is out of Allah’s generous nature that we are able to attain these blessings. These blessings should become indicators pointing to the greatest blessings bestowed upon us, which are that of life and faith. Take these small things as aspects reminding you of Allah. This is the state of the “knower” for he sees the signs of God in everything for “Verily in these are signs for people of understanding.” (20:128)

Be thankful to Allah, since thankfulness is the key to increase of one’s love, faith, and general good, turn to Him in true submission and humble yourself.

Wasalam

Salman Younas


Approved by Faraz Rabbani


Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
That's not quite the same thing - ardianto said that doing the following were examples of imitating the Kufr and consequently haram and my question was directed to him. Do you agree with him?


career is first, family and marriage is second
Men and women are equal in every matter.
Accept woman as a leader of the people
I agree with Islam. If you would like to know what Islam teaches. I have pasted a nice article.
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 03:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
It seems that once again there has been in-depth discussion on the finer points of a question – 'Imitating the kufr' without anyone knowing why it is not allowed. Or is it that some scholar has once again extended what obviously might be decreed haram e.g. imitating another religion and extended it to include everything else? Or is it that you just don’t know?
Imitating what?
Clothes? Because woman in Islam cannot wear tights etc...
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 03:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
It seems that once again there has been in-depth discussion on the finer points of a question – 'Imitating the kufr' without anyone knowing why it is not allowed. Or is it that some scholar has once again extended what obviously might be decreed haram e.g. imitating another religion and extended it to include everything else? Or is it that you just don’t know?
This:

Or is it that some scholar has once again extended what obviously might be decreed haram e.g. imitating another religion and extended it to include everything else?

Has happened on occasion and will probably happen again. Which is one reason we should not blindly follow any scholar and verify all we read.

In simplicity I see that we should not "Imitate the Kufar(non-Muslims)" as in doing so we may either neglect or alter our own worship or be lead into doing that which is haram. Some of the things that non-believers do, we believe to be sinful and to be honest some of them are attractive and tempting.

As far as what is considered to be "Imitating the Kufar" seems to have been well covered in the preceding posts.
Reply

julesfly
10-23-2009, 05:17 PM
The article relating to womans rights in Islam points to a side of Islam we are not shown very often in the Western world i agree. In relation to womens rights regarding rape however i have read numerous reports of young girls being tried for adultery under Sharia law after being raped and amnesty international have recently been involved with a case of this nature in Africa. These reports cause much concern to those trying to expand there knowledge and understanding of Islam. Please understand I am not wishing to grossly generalise or insinuate this happens often in the Muslim community but this is in stark contrast to the article and serves to breed fear.
Reply

Woodrow
10-23-2009, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by julesfly
The article relating to womans rights in Islam points to a side of Islam we are not shown very often in the Western world i agree. In relation to womens rights regarding rape however i have read numerous reports of young girls being tried for adultery under Sharia law after being raped and amnesty international have recently been involved with a case of this nature in Africa. These reports cause much concern to those trying to expand there knowledge and understanding of Islam. Please understand I am not wishing to grossly generalise or insinuate this happens often in the Muslim community but this is in stark contrast to the article and serves to breed fear.
Yes you are correct that is in contrast to the article. Do you have any idea as to why most Muslims worldwide are like the article and a few are like you have read about? Can it be Muslims are human and not perfect beings and some mistake national cultural practices for religion?
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by julesfly
The article relating to womans rights in Islam points to a side of Islam we are not shown very often in the Western world i agree. In relation to womens rights regarding rape however i have read numerous reports of young girls being tried for adultery under Sharia law after being raped and amnesty international have recently been involved with a case of this nature in Africa. These reports cause much concern to those trying to expand there knowledge and understanding of Islam. Please understand I am not wishing to grossly generalise or insinuate this happens often in the Muslim community but this is in stark contrast to the article and serves to breed fear.
I am not the type person who lectures no-Muslims about Islam. If you have a questions about sharia please start a new thread.However, I am glad that you want to hear the both sides. That is what smart people do.



Are raped women punished in Islam?


Name Nina -
Topic Ethics & Values
Title Are raped women punished in Islam?
Question Dear respected scholars,

My question is simply about raped women...

I know that Islam doesn't punish a rapped woman because simply it's out of her hands. But some people say that THEY SHOULD be punished!!


Jazakuallah khayran
Date 2002/6/23

Name of Consultant Kamal Badr
Content of Reply

Dear sister, thanks for your question.

As the question mostly revolves around raped women, I would confine my answer to that point, without delving into the issue of punishing the rapist, on which there is no controversy that if it is proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that he is guilty of the crime, he will serve the punishment.

But I would like to make it clear that this crime can be proved either by confession or testimony or even through any modern means, thanks for the great revolution that has taken place in the field of science. This has made it easier for criminal experts to lay their hands on clear evidence that paves way for justice to run its course.

So what I am trying to say is that, contrary to what some Westerners claim, the issue is not just "bring four witnesses or set the accused free". Shari`ah is not a legal system that keeps itself away from realities of life. Rather, it is practical in the sense that its mechanism of justice operates in a quite flexible way that makes all its precepts and rulings applicable at all time. Anyway, as I have said, I will not go into details on that now.

Moving to your question. Yes, sister, raped women are not punished in Islam. What punishment? This is like saying that a person robbed of his property should be punished.

It is a fact that, to be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct, in the sense that what befell her must be something beyond her control. This is where Islam excels.


In dealing with a certain issue or addressing a certain problem, it brings forth a comprehensive panacea that uproots the problem and eliminates its causes. Rather than stipulating a temporary measure that will act as sedatives, Islam gets down to the root of the problem itself with the aim of uprooting entirely.


It sets noble codes of conduct that should prevail in the society; it addresses women to maintain their modesty, as not to open the door for evils:


*{… be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 32)


The above verse, despite addressing the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) actually, in an implicit way, calls upon Muslim women in general to preserve their dignity and modesty, just to save themselves from any harassment.

This injunction sounds more explicit in the following verse:

*{O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 59)


This is Islam. As we have reiterated before, it does not hunt for crimes just to punish; rather, it works towards the means of blocking the avenues of crimes. Even when it punishes, it does not punish blindly; rather, it strikes the guilty hand.

So, for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens her house for robbery and her dignity for deflowering. If, after trying her best to resist the attack, she gets overcome by the assailants, she is totally absolved from punishment.

Muslim scholars are unanimous on this. They maintain that any woman, who, despite doing her utmost to resist these thugs and their ilk, is raped, is not guilty of any sin. This is since the situation is beyond her control, and anyone who is forced to do something is not guilty of sin. This is even in the case of disbelief, which is worse than zina (sex out of marriage), as Allah says what means:


*{… except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with faith}* (An-Nahl 16: 106)


The Prophet said: "Allah has forgiven for my Ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do."

In showing reaction to this heinous crime, Islam takes into consideration the terrible effects it has on its victims. Most rape victims have their self-esteem diminished after an assault or abuse, driving them to be hunted by frequent shame, humiliation and loss of control.

This situation may even exacerbate to the point of making rape victims find it difficult to be intimate with others. That is why Islam lays down certain strategies, which all in all, aim at soothing the rape victim, opening for her new channels of hope and survival.

That is why Islam makes it clear that any Muslim woman who falls prey to a rapist will be rewarded for bearing this calamity with patience, if she seeks Allah's reward for the harm that has befallen her.


The Prophet says:

"No stress or exhaustion befalls the Muslim, nor worry or distress, even a thorn which pricks him, but Allah will forgive his sins because of that." (Al-Bukhari)

The society also has a role to play in rehabilitating the rape victim. Instead of deserting her or considering her a person non grata in the society, for the crime she has no hand in, Islam calls upon the society to rush to assist her in modifying and improving her life. We should show her the way out the pain of abuse.

Thus, many Muslim scholars, led by Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, have maintained that young Muslim men should hasten to marry women who fall as rape victims, so as to reduce their suffering and console them, to compensate them for the loss of the most precious thing that they possess. This reflects mutual love, rapport and altruism that prevail in the Muslim society.

This is, in brief, how Islam caters for raped women. Please keep in touch.

As for the site you referred to, I've checked it and I see that you don't have to bother yourself with such things. What every Muslim should busy himself or herself with, is how to get acquainted with the teachings of Islam, and how to acquire that from a proper source.

May Allah help us!


source

Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me why Mohammed wants you to dress like him or not dress like me. Nobody seems to know why and although there seems to be agreement amongst you that you should dress and do everything else differently, (notwithstanding that you don’t know why) there seems to no understanding of how exactly. The natural obvious way to be different is to be different from those horribly decadent westerners but as most of the members of this forum live in the west, that seems to be in the too hard to do box.

(9:68) Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them, and theirs is lasting torment.
I have been telling you why since the first time you have asked, but you kept ignoring what I said. Typical of your kind.

Why doesn't Muhammad,saws, want us to dress like you? Because He,saws, doesn't want us to be like you. We are Muslims, following the Qur'an and not west.We are leaders not to be led. That is why. You want us to tell you what pleases your brain? We will not. This is what Islam says period.

You wanted my personal opinion in the past, I'll give it to you. Not all of us are born in a Muslim family. Not all of us are Arabs. Not all of us even know all the commands of Islam. Every Muslim desires to live under Islamic law. I do. I wish I could wear a sheet over myself and not these peaces of cloathing. I wish I could fly but I can't. Muhammad,saws, said when he commands us something to follow it as much as we can.
Got this from another forum..
First Khutbah
I advise you, as well as myself, to fear Allaah in times of prosperity and misfortune, in secret and in public: "O mankind! Worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous." (Al Baqarah: 21).

O people! When a person meditates upon the histories of past nations and populations, he will be instantly amazed at the revolutions and transformations they went through. For instance, there was a pioneering nation (i.e., the Muslim nation) which led the world for many centuries but then, it faltered and lost its leading role; it fell in the midst of blind imitation and followed the paths of other nations in terms of manners and beliefs. Once it was at the acme of development and reached the highest level of power and glory, but it later fell to the lowest point and was afflicted with misery. It died after it had been living, deteriorated after it was once flourishing and withered after it was blossoming. It was the nation that discovered the sources of knowledge and developed the Islaamic civilization and sciences, which the West later obtained significantly, without having to exert the least of efforts. Thus it seems as if the gates towards progress had been shut off for the Muslims as they turned into artificial consumers of the Western civilization. They even began to adopt certain features of it, which were originally theirs but had been stolen away from them.

O Muslims! When a Muslim blindly imitates the West, he turns into a loyal supporter of their beliefs and customs; he is like one who tries to reform something but spoils it while he is unaware. He is just like a defeated follower, like a baby who bites and severs his mother's breast while it is in his mouth. Such a person does not know that blind copying of the West involves hidden hazards and that our rights, honor and dignity are violated by such imitation and imbecilic pride.

O Muslims! The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "You will imitate the nations before you very closely to the extent that if they went into a lizard's hole, you would enter it as well” his companions, may Allaah be pleased with them, inquired: “(Do you mean) the Jews and Christians, O Messenger of Allaah?” He sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam replied: "Who else?” (Bukhaari & Muslim). The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam also said: "The Day of Judgment will not come until my Nation closely imitates the nations before them.” It was asked: “Like the Persians and Romans, Messenger of Allaah?” He sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam replied: "Who are the nations (I could mean) except those?” (Bukhaari).

The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam foretold that some of his nation will imitate the People of the Book, namely the Jews and Christians, as well as other non-Arabs, namely the Persians and Romans. Allaah says that which means: "[You disbelievers are] like those before you; they were stronger than you in power and more abundant in wealth and children. They enjoyed their portion [of worldly enjoyment], and you have enjoyed your portion as those before you enjoyed their portion, and you have engaged [in vanities] like that in which they engaged…" (At-Tawbah: 69). Ibn ‘Abbaas, may Allaah be pleased with him, commented on this verse by saying: “These are the Children of Israel that we will imitate.” Ibn Mas’ood, may Allaah be pleased with him, also said in this regard: “You are closely similar to the Children of Israel as far as outside appearance and manners are concerned, but I do not know whether you will worship the calf (as they did) or not.”

O servants of Allaah! The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam used to prohibit imitating other nations. It is worth mentioning that these traditions do not indicate that the entire Muslim nation will commit this sin as he sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam also foretold that a group of his nation will continue to stick to the Straight Path until the Day of Judgment.

The Muslims constitute the most guided and well-mannered nation in this life; and on the Day of Judgment Allaah will make them witnesses over all other nations as He says that which means: "And thus We have made you a median [i.e., just] community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you…" (Al-Baqarah: 143). Indeed, this is a very prestigious position. How is it, then, that Muslims imitate others in their customs, traditions and feasts? The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam even forbade the Muslims from acquiring religious information from the People of the Book; once, ‘Umar ibn Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, was reading some parts of one of the scriptures of the People of the Book to the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, so he got angry and said: "I have conveyed to you a clear religion. Do not ask them (the People of the Book) about anything, for they may tell you the truth while you belie them or they may lie and you might believe them. I swear by Him in Whose Hands is my soul, if Moosaa was alive, he would not have any choice but to follow me.” (Ahmad & Ibn Abi Shaybah).

Allaah made human beings and all other creatures accustomed to interacting with their similar counterparts. When the degree of similarity increases, such interaction and hence imitation in morals and characteristics becomes more complete, until it is hardly possible to distinguish between them. Accordingly, human beings are affected by each other and acquire each other's traits through cohabitation and imitation. It is also known that if a human being stays in the company of a certain type of animal, he would pick up some of its features; that is why, for example, those who tend camels are known for their pride and arrogance, while shepherds are known to be humble and calm, whereas those who raise both camels and mules acquire some of the bad attributes of both. Similarly, a domestic animal acquires some human characteristics, such as the ability to live with others.

Furthermore, when a person puts on the clothes usually worn by scholars, he may feel himself as somehow closer to them, because similarity and imitation in outward appearance leads to resemblance in inward characteristics such as personal characteristics and morals, as is witnessed in reality and is confirmed by Islaamic jurisprudence and common sense. In the old times, it was said: ‘Birds of a feather flock together’; this is a realistic proverb which conforms to the manner in which Allaah has formed His creation. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam spoke the truth when he said: "Whoever imitates a people is one of them." (Ahmad & Abu Dawood)

Shaykh Al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “We have seen that the degree of polytheism is less in those Jews and Christians who reside with Muslims, and that the degree of faith in the Muslims who have dealt extensively with the Jews and Christians is lesser than that of the pious Muslims.”

O servants of Allaah! Imitating polytheists and atheists in their clothing, customs, rules, politics and economics has become widespread among many Muslims to a very large extent, so much so that the one who blindly imitates and tries to Westernize might even be respected by the foolish masses and the youth, including the rich, intellectuals and even the poor, who are attracted to such a person. Woe to imitation and subordination! What weighty and oppressive constraints they have! What a dark path theirs is! What a great loss for whoever follows them!

Yes, woe to imitating and following the West! It has trapped some Muslim generations in the dark, narrow prisons of subordination and dependence, and prevented them from thinking, meditating and heading for glory. It has blocked the means to the real happiness of their souls.

Woe to imitation and dependence! They are obstacles for the intellects and prevent everything that may revive them.

The Muslim Nation should lead, not be led; others should depend on us and not the reverse. Our Nation should not be deceived by the artificial adornments possessed by some devastated people, as Allaah says that which means: "And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories of them, [its being but] the splendor of worldly life by which We test them. And the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting." (Taa-Haa: 131).

The Western civilization is like a mirage, which, when seen from a distance is like a large sea, but it is as Allaah says which means: "But the disbelievers – their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allaah before him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allaah is swift in account." (An-Noor: 39).

The weak and ignorant Muslims, who try to remodel the principles of our nation through imitation, should know that even though such temporal morals may ruin some of the deeply rooted ones, they will never remain or become innate. If some people believe that our nation must change its ways for development, then let it be known that our resorting to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam is the best means for change. Allaah says that which means: "…Indeed, Allaah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allaah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron." (Ar-Ra`d: 11).

If we embrace the means to be powerful, stick to deep-rooted principles such as strong will, piety, courage and Islaamic zeal and adhere to our distinctive code of life which indicates that we are religious and ethical people, what harm would we get from it? Are these not the true Islaamic morals? Are there any other solid foundations for progress besides them? Allaah says that which means: "[And say, ‘Ours is] the religion of Allaah. And who is better than Allaah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him’” (Al-Baqarah: 138) and also: "[Say], ‘Then is it other than Allaah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book [i.e., the Qur’aan] explained in detail?’…" (Al-An’aam: 114)

However, if we are to adopt foreign customs and traditions alien to our religion, from the West, we should remember that Islaam is Islaam and polytheism is polytheism, and that they live in one hemisphere and we live in another. We were the masters before we assumed these Western traditions that ruined the free Muslim nation – its men and especially its women, who have rushed after the unknown in a breathless attempt to imitate the West. They are amazed by the eye-catching products of its industries and have followed its disgraceful women to the extent that their clothes became almost the same as those of Western models. When you see any Muslim woman wearing a dress barely covering her private parts, you should know that this is an example of their kind of clothing. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said about such women: "I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion and (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of wise men, besides you (women).” (Bukhaari & Muslim).

This is why when Allaah says that which means: "…and amended for him [i.e., Zakariyya] his wife…” (Al-Anbiyaa’: 90) it denotes that He thereby bestowed much grace upon Zakariyya, peace be upon him: He also says which means, "…So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allaah would have them guard…" (An-Nisaa’: 34)

O Muslims! The restrictions imposed by our religion on the human being are not meant to torture or deprive him from the pleasures of this life. Rather, their aim is to elevate him from mere animalism to complete humanity. Thus, a Muslim will become capable of overcoming subservience and dependence, and his faith and piety will overpower animalistic lusts.

Whenever a society ignores such restrictions or belittles them, it jeopardizes and opens itself to serious problems and positions itself on the brink of destruction, as Allaah says that which means: "…And whoever transgresses the limits of Allaah – it is those who are the wrongdoers [i.e., the unjust]” (Al-Baqarah: 229) and also: "…And who is more astray than one who follows his desire without guidance from Allaah? Indeed, Allaah does not guide the wrongdoing people." (Al-Qasas: 50).

Second Khutbah
Our Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam prohibited whatever acts lead to the imitation of the polytheists to such an extent that one of the Jews said about him: "This man does not wish to set aside any of our affairs until he acts in nonconformity with it." (Muslim).

It is also reported that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam forbade Muslims from offering prayers after dawn until the sun rises and following the afternoon prayer until sunset. He explained that the sun rises and sets between the horns of the devil and at this time, the polytheists prostrate before it. It is well-known that a believer never prostrates himself to anything except Allaah; most people may not even be aware that the sun rises and sets between the horns of the devil and that the polytheists prostrate before it, yet, the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam commanded Muslims not to pray at this time so as not to imitate the polytheists in any way.

Imitating the People of the Book and the non-Arab polytheists will surely lead to some degree of affection towards them. For this reason also, imitation is prohibited in order to block the way before such love transpires and to prevent allegiance to them; this is aside from the legal evidences that prohibit such imitation.

It is plainly evident that some people who copy the polytheists in their clothes, manners, traditions or speak their language, harbor love and admiration for them. In this way, the polytheists succeed in disseminating ideas such as globalization and a universal religion which affect some sick-hearted Muslims; all of these aim at weakening the Muslim character and identity. Whenever a person objects to such ideas, he is labeled as an introvert, an isolationist and even a narrow-minded person alienated from this world and who should have died in his cradle.

Such people seem to ask why the bells of churches do not chime along with the minarets reverberating "Allaah is the Greatest." They ask why there are not many religions being practiced in the Arabian Peninsula, but they forget or seem to forget that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: "There must not be two religions in the Arabian Peninsula.” (Maalik & Ahmad).

Allaah says that which means: “And never will the Jews and the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say: ‘Indeed, the guidance of Allaah is the [only] guidance.’ If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allaah no protector or helper.” (Al-Baqarah: 120). He also says that which means: "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike…” (An-Nisaa’: 89).


__________________
اللهم لاعيش إلا عيش
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 07:52 PM
I read through that explanation of why although Mohammed said Muslims should dress like him it didn’t really mean that and was hanging in there struggling to understand how he rationalised that on the presumption that whoever he was he had thought it through then I got to the end where he said “Among the sunna actions of dress are: (men) Keeping the pants above the ankles.

He starts off with what I presume are hadeeth stating that Mohammed appeared to suggest that Muslims should look like them (Mohammed and his clan) and if they didn’t they are not Muslims. He then goes into 6 pages of reasons why it’s probably OK to wear western clothes because, for example, some Muslims are westerners and so you’d be looking like western Muslims but then ends up by adding but the trousers must finish above your ankles. I’d bet a sizeable sum of money that 99% of the Muslim men on this forum living in the west do not wear their trousers to a length finishing above their ankles – why is that?
Wow, a non-Muslim commentary on the hadeeths and fatwas. Are you American?Muhammad,saws,said this,that.
He then goes into 6 pages of reasons why it’s probably OK to wear western clothes because, for example, some Muslims are westerners and so you’d be looking like western Muslims but then ends up by adding but the trousers must finish above your ankles.
He probably was explaining what we can wear what we can not wear. As simple as that. These are the things men cannot wear.And do not judge what you do not understand.4) There are a few conditions that men must meet when wearing clothes.
a: It must cover what is between the navel and the knees and should be loose enough.
b: It must not reach below the ankles.
c: It must not be clothing worn with the intention of imitating disbelievers.
d: It must not imitate the dress of women (including jewelry such as necklaces, bracelets and earrings).
e: It must not contain gold or silk.
There, a Muslim summary.Understand?

I’d bet a sizeable sum of money that 99% of the Muslim men on this forum living in the west do not wear their trousers to a length finishing above their ankles – why is that?
You need to visit a mosq or a Muslim community.I'd bet that you haven't ever seen a practicing Muslim.

I read through that explanation of why although Mohammed said Muslims should dress like him it didn’t really mean that and was hanging in there struggling to understand how he rationalised that on the presumption that whoever he was he had thought it through then I got to the end where he said “Among the sunna actions of dress are: (men) Keeping the pants above the ankles.
The description I gave you of how man should dress is the sunna actions of Muhammad,saws. The scholar no where said that man can wear what I said they cannot. What I said that men cannot wear are th eonly prohibited ways in imitating kufar. Clear?
Reply

Rasema
10-23-2009, 09:06 PM
Oh, and about Muslims abiding in non-Muslim lands. There is a ruling on that. It is permissible for a Muslim to live in a non-Muslim country under specific circumstances.Which? too long for me to answer. If you're interested, seek it yourself.It would also depend on an individual's situation. For example, I am born in a non- practicing, European,Muslim family and I don't have a choice but to live with my family.
Reply

ardianto
10-24-2009, 06:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Are you saying that God doesn’t want Muslim women to have a career, to believe they are equal to Muslim men and Muslim men cannot have a Muslim woman as their leader? Well indeed you are that is what you’ve said but surely God made us all equal?
Sorry, I cannot reply your post instantly. There was a trouble with electricity, and luckily I follow a statement that say candle is not totally haram.

Okay, back to topic.

-------

In Islam women are allowed to work and have career but not allowed to forget their role as a wife and mother.
This statement is pointing to some women who think, marriage, pregnancy or having children can give a bad effect in career.
Also pointing to career women who forget to serve and take care their husbands and child because they are too busy in their career.

-------

In Islam men and women are equal but not in certain matter. In example, man can be imam for woman is shalaath, but woman cannot be imam for man in shalaath.
This statement is pointing to some extreme feminists who want absolute equality in Islam. Their famous statement was "If man is allowed to marry four women, let me marry four men".
Extreme feminists like these are really exist in Indonesia.

-------

About accept woman as people leader (President / Prime Minister).
Sorry, wrong translation, the right word is not allowed to VOTE a woman for leader. But in case of emergency (only in case of emergency) Muslims can accept a woman as leader. Megawati became Indonesian president caused by emergency situation.
Reply

Snowflake
10-24-2009, 07:04 AM
:sl: Imitation is when you deliberately set out to resemble someone, be like them or be accepted by them and therefore attempt to change, mask or make confusing your own true identity. Celebrating Christmas to fit in so that Christians think you are like them, making your life void of islamic signs/expressions, and dressing like them (non muslims) to be accepted socially by appearing less islamic/foreign is an imitation. Wearing coats/jackets, jeans etc, in cold climates to protect yourself is a necessity, not an imitation.
Reply

aamirsaab
10-24-2009, 10:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
On the presumption that you believe that Sheikh Xyz is stating the will of God. . .

Why does God decree that Muslims look and act differently from non-Muslims?

Is it because everything the non-Muslims do is bad?
Nope.

Is it because non-Muslims are the enemy and there is a need to be able to identify friend from foe?
Some other reason?
Nope.

It's about physical identity. In Islam there is the physical and mental conditions that are to be followed. Mental conditions are that of prayer, dhikr, your language etc. The physical is your mannerisms, your dress code, your physical actions.

Now, regarding the question on imitating kufar. First off, the point is: you are a muslim so you should act like a muslim. We have clear instructions on the dos and don'ts of Islam (for the most part): don't eat pork, don't drink yadda yadda. Do pray salah, do act in accordance of the Sunnah yadda yadda.

So with that in mind, there is simply no need to imitate the kufar - because our ''system'' is the one we should be following. The comment about not imitating the kufar acts as reinforcement to that point.

Thus, in very simple terms: we have a system, follow it, and don't follow anyone else's.
Reply

Uthman
10-24-2009, 11:33 AM
See here and here for clarification about imitation of the Kuffaar.
Reply

Muhammad
10-24-2009, 12:39 PM
Greetings,

Thinker, your re-interpretations of Islamic texts, refusal to accept clear answers and persistent undue questioning is clearly not doing you any favours nor serving any constructive purpose. If you wish to ask sincere questions about Islam on multiple issues, you can use the Clarifications about Islam section. But derailing someone else's thread with needless nitpicking straying all over the place is unacceptable and not the first time you have done so.

I think the important points in this thread were mentioned quite early on and anything further can be added by contacting me through PM.

Thread closed.
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