Prophet's marriage with Hazrat Ayesha. Need help

[Masuma]

:bism:

:salamext:

Can anyone please give me some knowledge regarding the Arab's customs of marriage at the time of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)? I mean he married Hazrat Ayesha when she was 9 years old. There are some Muslim sites which try to argue that she was not 9 but 16 or 17 etc when she married the Prophet. But thats not right as I have read an authentic hadith of Sahih Bukhari where she herself says that she was 9 years old at the time of her marriage.

Hadith of Sahih Bukhari:

A father can give his small virgin daughter in marriage:

Narrated by Hazrat Ayesha (r.a), "When my nikah (marriage contract) with Prophet (s.a.w) was written, I was of six years, and when my mother handed me to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), at that time I was nine years of age."

(Sahih Bukhari Book 63, Chapter 44: Muslim Book Al-Nikah, Chapter 9)

But you know that the non-Muslims say many pathetic things about our beloved Prophet that he married a child and ... all other crap. This makes me feel bad as I myself think that 9 year girl is just a child.imsad

If the Arabs had some custom of having younger brides than please can anyone explain me this?

Really looking forward to your replies!

May Allah bless you all!

Allahafiz!

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

I found a website that has useful information on this matter.

http://www.-----------/islam/aisha-age.htm

Do not pay any attention to what the kuffar have to say. Their sole purpose is to tarnish Islam and lead all Muslims astray. They have never studied Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) life or any of his teachings.

[Uthman]

Maybe this thread will help: http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...phet-pbuh.html

[Masuma]

Asalamu alikum!

Thank you so much dear bros for your replies and helpful links. May Allah reward you both for helping someone in desperate need.

Thanks alot!

Allahafiz!

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[AbdullahSyed]

Salam alykum

First, I do not care about the opinion of Non-Muslims about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Whatever opinion they may have of Prophet (peace be upon him) will be negative since it is a clear threat to their way of life. Second, I do not have problem with any of the Prophet (peace be upon him) marriages he is allowed to marry whom he (peace be upon him) wishes or desires. As for Aisha R.A. being 9 years of age when the Prophet (peace be upon him) married her. I do not see any problem with this either, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) scarified way too much for me to question him. Who am I to question the Prophet (peace be upon him) judgment? If he wished to marry 200 women I still would see no problem in his divine decision. His (peace be upon him) message is clear "There is no God But Allah and Muhammad is his slave and servant" How can people who claim that a man told them he is "Son of God" and brought the truth challenge a man who gave up everything and said he is slave of One true God. There is no religion that can have such greatness as Islam. The reason negative views bother us is not because of the views themselves rather over Eman. We should gain more knowledge and increase our awareness of the Deen. Only an ignorant person would bark back at a dog, an intelligent person would realize there is no point in barking back at the dog. The animal has no common sense to understand the reality. Similarly, people who do not see the message of Islam to be the truth even though the message is clear then it is pointless for us to respond back to them. These people have lost their intellect they can no longer think for themselves, responding to them is like responding to a dog. Study the Seerah of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) everyone will realize the truth and everything will fall in place. I highly recommend The Sealed Nectar.

In no way is this intended for the sister that posted the question. This is only refereeing to Muslims as mentioned trying to deceive the people and lie about our Deen.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Imam Ibn kathir (May Allah have mercy on him) narrates a hadith in his Al-Bidayah wa-Nihayah:

"Imam Bukhari (May Allah have mercy on him) narrates another hadith which he heard from Farwa bin abi al-Mughria who heard from 'Ali bin Masher who heard from Hisham bin 'Urawh who heard from his father who reports from 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), who said: 'When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was betrowth to me, I was six years old. Later, when we migrated from Makkah to Medina and stayed at bin harith bin khdhrj's place, I had grown up. My hair had got longer and I had physically matured; however, I still used to play with other girls...I was nine years old at that time."

Source Page 210-211


http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/quran-hadith-prophet-muhammad/book-refuting-islamaphobes-claim-prophet-muhammad-pedophile-1441/page3#post11476

[Danah]

:bism:

:salamext:

Can anyone please give me some knowledge regarding the Arab's customs of marriage at the time of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)?

It was very normal at that Age in the Arabian desert that girls get married at such age, it has been narrated that at the same day the mother of the prophet married his father another marriage case took place and it was Hala "the cousin of Mohammed Mom" who married Abd Al Mutalib and Hala was in a young age as married a man in her father age", and the list goes on and on

Aisha May Allah be pleased with her was already engaged to Jubair Ibn Al Mut'im Ibn Udai when the prophet proposed to her. Then some reasons leaded that time to cancel her proposal with Jubair and marry the prophet peace be upon him. So it was not the prophet peace be upon him who firstly propose to her.

When the first wife (Khadijah may Allah be pleased with her) of the prophet passed away it was Khawla bint Hakeem who mentioned Aisha to the prophet when she asked him to get married again which means that girls in such age were very known to all people at that time that they are at the age of marriage, otherwise Khawla bint Hakeem wouldn’t mention her at the first place because she know very well when the girl is "ready" for getting married

But thats not right as I have read an authentic hadith of Sahih Bukhari where she herself says that she was 9 years old at the time of her marriage.

yes, she herself said that and she was very proud of that marriage, otherwise she will never narrate every single thing happened to her when she was with the prophet. Some Islam attackers claimed that she was forced to that Marriage, Do you think that a forced woman to marriage will tell people happily how things were happening in her house? Even talking about some details sometimes? I think no

But you know that the non-Muslims say many pathetic things about our beloved Prophet that he married a child and ... all other crap.

They say all kinds of bad and disgusting things about the purest man on the face of earth so you better ignore such ignorance and do your duty in educating them about that topic. Then its up to them to whether accept it or not.

This makes me feel bad as I myself think that 9 year girl is just a child.imsad

Girls in that area of earth got matured earlier than other places and the normal age for puberty at that time was even 8 in many cases!!
You feel bad about it because our culture now is different than the their culture 1400 years. Today's girls think about other things in such age like dolls, schools, TVs.....etc, and have NO idea whatsoever about what is marriage all about and how it is to be responsible for a family.

If the Arabs had some custom of having younger brides than please can anyone explain me this?

My mother told me how her ancestors got married in such a young age and it was something very normal thing that time- she told me that education at that old time was not a big deal "this is only in case there were schools around", Its only in the last 50 years that girls started to prefer Education over early marriage


I hope that help!

[Rasema]

:sl:

People in the 50s even in America married oround 15. Maryam(r.a.) was 12 according to Catholic encyclopedia when she bore Isa(a.s.).

Do you know of anybody who has raised a wife? I mean to be the most knowledgeable in the town and healty. No husband has done that instead of Resul,saws. There is a lot that could be said really. I'm sure it's in the links.
At the time of the Prophet,saws, when people would get angry for some reason and when Resul,saws, explained to them his reasons it would make them cry. So sister, things sound in a weird way but when you actually witness them they aren't bad. At the time, children were not as the children of today. They were way bigger. There was only one 9 year old that was developed I saw today. Girls get their menstruation at the age of 8(some).
:wa:

[Masuma]

First, I do not care about the opinion of Non-Muslims about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Whatever opinion they may have of Prophet (peace be upon him) will be negative since it is a clear threat to their way of life. Second, I do not have problem with any of the Prophet (peace be upon him) marriages he is allowed to marry whom he (peace be upon him) wishes or desires. As for Aisha R.A. being 9 years of age when the Prophet (peace be upon him) married her. I do not see any problem with this either, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) scarified way too much for me to question him. Who am I to question the Prophet (peace be upon him) judgment? If he wished to marry 200 women I still would see no problem in his divine decision. His (peace be upon him) message is clear "There is no God But Allah and Muhammad is his slave and servant" How can people who claim that a man told them he is "Son of God" and brought the truth challenge a man who gave up everything and said he is slave of One true God. There is no religion that can have such greatness as Islam. The reason negative views bother us is not because of the views themselves rather over Eman. We should gain more knowledge and increase our awareness of the Deen. Only an ignorant person would bark back at a dog, an intelligent person would realize there is no point in barking back at the dog. The animal has no common sense to understand the reality. Similarly, people who do not see the message of Islam to be the truth even though the message is clear then it is pointless for us to respond back to them. These people have lost their intellect they can no longer think for themselves, responding to them is like responding to a dog. Study the Seerah of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) everyone will realize the truth and everything will fall in place.

Just too perfect dear brother! I approve of all of the things you said above.
Also one thing I want to add is that one must try as hard as possible to know his/her Deen. If the non-Muslims don't understand sth, it is just too normal for them to ask questions about it. Therefore every Muslim should be well trained with the knowledge of how to answer these questions. And of course the non-Muslims I mentioned must be those who really want to understand, and should not be those who are just critics etc.

I highly recommend The Sealed Nectar.

What is "The Sealed Nectar"? Some book on the Seerah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w)?

[Uthman]

What is "The Sealed Nectar"? Some book on the Seerah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w)?

Yep. You can read it online here but I would highly recommend buying it.

[Masuma]

It was very normal at that Age in the Arabian desert that girls get married at such age, it has been narrated that at the same day Aisha married the prophet another marriage case took place and it was Hala "the cousin of Mohammed Mom" who married Abd Al Mutalib and Hala was in a young age as married a man in her father age", and the list goes on and on."

Dear sis, is this narration authentic? I mean, I only take that thing as 100% authentic which is mentioned in Quran and Sahih Hadith. So if these are in some hadith book, then please can you give the reference number and hadith number?

This, if it is an authentic point, is just far more enough to refute all the pathetic allegations of non-Muslims against our beloved Prophet. This point will then be so powerful! But it must be authentic as non-Muslims always demand authenticity. They even say that we'll agree to it even if it is mentioned in your Sahih Books.

I hope that help!

Helped me more than you think! All of your post was simply amazing and helpful!

May Allah bless you so much!

XOXO!:statisfie

Wasalam!

[Masuma]

:wasalamex

Do you know of anybody who has raised a wife? I mean to be the most knowledgeable in the town and healty. No husband has done that instead of Resul,saws. There is a lot that could be said really. I'm sure it's in the links.

:awesome: Wonderful point!

Can you please also tell me these things that a 9 year old can have many problems of conceiving and pregnancy. Like, its very risky for a girl that young physically to give birth to a child. So what if people say that Prophet (s.a.w) should have waited till she got stronger physically etc? (I am just trying to understand it fully so that if non-Muslims ask me anything what so ever , I already have my answers prepared.)

[AbdullahSyed]

Just too perfect dear brother! I approve of all of the things you said above.
Also one thing I want to add is that one must try as hard as possible to know his/her Deen. If the non-Muslims don't understand sth, it is just too normal for them to ask questions about it. Therefore every Muslim should be well trained with the knowledge of how to answer these questions. And of course the non-Muslims I mentioned must be those who really want to understand, and should not be those who are just critics etc.


What is "The Sealed Nectar"? Some book on the Seerah of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w)?

I do not disagree with refuting the lies of the enemies. But this is my problem Aisha R.A. loved prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) and he (peace be upon him) loved her R.A. This is a relationship of husband and wife and if someone is more concerned about their relationship then the message of Islam itself. I think these people are just wasting our time.

The Sealed Nectar is a book of Seerah. Its well written and very detailed about every aspect of the Prophet (peace be upon him) life. Also, if you like to listen lectures try Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki.

:wa:

[AbdullahSyed]

:wasalamex


:awesome: Wonderful point!

Can you please also tell me these things that a 9 year old can have many problems of conceiving and pregnancy. Like, its very risky for a girl that young physically to give birth to a child. So what if people say that Prophet (s.a.w) should have waited till she got stronger physically etc? (I am just trying to understand it fully so that if non-Muslims ask me anything what so ever , I already have my answers prepared.)

The marriage between Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Aisha R.a. was divine ruling. She came in the dream of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Whatever abilities a normal girl may lack at certain age cannot be the same with the Prophet (peace be upon him) wives. They are not like the other women. And if this answer does not go down the persons throat as the old expression goes "Hell with them".

[Rasema]

:sl:

Can you please also tell me these things that a 9 year old can have many problems of conceiving and pregnancy. Like, its very risky for a girl that young physically to give birth to a child. So what if people say that Prophet (s.a.w) should have waited till she got stronger physically etc? (I am just trying to understand it fully so that if non-Muslims ask me anything what so ever , I already have my answers prepared.)

Let me quote my sis *Redeem*

However, your argument that it's damaging to the girl isn't always true, because A'isha was a mentally, emotionally and physically fit young girl who grew up to be a mentally, emotionally and physically fit woman. Anyone who learns about her life will discover that she was never traumatized in her marriage to prophet Muhammad.

Where I'm from and where a majority of the posters are from, it's perfectly normal for any young person, male or female, to be married. This is because our boys and girls mature a lot faster than western children do. By the age of 10, most boys are bringing in money to the family and most girls are looking after the entire household. Different conditions and social values create for different results.

Do I support marriage when there are huge age differences? No. If anything, prophet Muhammad encouraged people to marry those who're in their age group. Nor do I consider it okay for an old man to desire marriage to a young girl for no reason other than her youth. That's disturbing. But if you look at prophet Muhammad's lifestyle, character and even marriage history, you'll realize that he had no preference for young girls, nor did he marry her for any reason beyond forming ties between two households.

A'isha was engaged to another man before prophet Muhammad. That man was a non-Muslim and the engagement was broken. It wasn't unusual for young girls to be married during that period of time. The same was happening all over the world, from Africa to Europe to Asia.

Your aversion to such a marriage is really based on your own societal norms. And those Muslims who do not believe A'isha was young probably have the same upbringing. And when they learn about something they find hard to believe, they reject it outright.

[- Qatada -]

asalaam alaikum


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...thaigalhx9.jpg

[Danah]

Dear sis, is this narration authentic? I mean, I only take that thing as 100% authentic which is mentioned in Quran and Sahih Hadith. So if these are in some hadith book, then please can you give the reference number and hadith number?

sorry sis, I meant at the same day the mother of the prophet married his father, another marriage case of Hala married Abdul-Mutalib......its not the same day of Aisha marriage "because Abdul-Mutalib was already dead that time"......I will edit my previous post, and I will try to look for an authenticated hadeeth.


here is another marriage case you can mention, where Ummar bin Al-Khatab married Umm-Kulthum the daughter of Ali bin Abu-Talib at the year of 17 AH and she was born at the year of 6 AH so she was 11 years old


here:

Umar's Marriage with Umm Kulthum bint Ali
(Allah be well-pleased with them)

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim

The Marriage of `Umar ibn al-Khattab with Umm Kulthum bint `Ali Allah be well-pleased with all of them.

The marriage of `Umar with Umm Kulthum al-Hashimiyya (6-49) the daughter of `Ali and Fatima took place on the year 17 of the Hijra. `Ali gave her away to `Umar upon his request although he was afraid at first that `Umar might not accept her due to her youth and because he wished her to marry one of her cousins among the sons of Ja`far ibn Abi Talib. But `Umar said, ‘Marry her to me for I swear I have toward her more dedication to excellent companionship than any man on the face of the earth.’

`Umar gave her a dowry of 40,000 dirhams in honor of her lineage to the Messenger of Allah, upon him blessings and peace.

http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/sp2-gfh_e.html



and here:

THE MARRIAGE OF UMM KULTHUM
Umm Kulthum was the second daughter of ‘Ali and Fatimah, and the youngets of their four children. She was born in about the year 6 AH. She became of marriagable age during the khilafah of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, and the khalifah asked for her hand in marriage. This is recorded by Ibn Sa‘d in his work at-Tabaqat al-Kubra (vol. 8 p. 338, ed. Muhammad ‘Ab al-Qadir ‘Ata, Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyyah, Beirut 1990) as follows:

I was informed by Anas ibn ‘Iyad al-Laythi, who reports on the authority of Ja‘far ibn Muhammad [as-Sadiq], and he from his father [Muhammad al-Baqir]—
that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab asked ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib for the hand of Umm Kulthum in marriage. ‘Ali said, "I had kept my daughters for the sons of Ja‘far." ‘Umar said, "Marry her to me, O Abul Hasan, for by Allah,there is no man on the face of the earth who seeks to achieve through her good companionship that which I seek to achieve." ‘Ali said, "I have done so."
Then ‘Umar came to the Muhajirun between the grave [of Rasulullah r ] and the pulpit. They—‘Ali, ‘Uthman, Zubayr, Talhah and ‘Abd ar-Rahman—used to sit there, and whenever a matter used to arrive from the frontiers, ‘Umar used to come to them there and consult with them. He came to them and said, "Congratulate me." They congratulated him, and asked, "With whom are we congratulating you, O Amir al-Mu’minin?" He replied, "With the daughter of ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib."
Then he related to them that the Nabi r said, "Every tie of kinship, and every association will be cut off on the Day of Qiyamah, except my kinship and my association." [‘Umar said,] "I have had the companionship of Rasulullah r ; I would like also to have this [kinship]."

http://www.ansar.org/english/marriage.htm



BarakAllahu feeki, I hope this help dear sis :)

[Rasema]

Yes be ashamed my dear, goes to show you have a concscience...

It’s funny how your conscience works. For example, your friend could say to you, “Maybe you should go to the gym.” The next thing you do is say, “Why are you calling me fat?”

Read some books before joining an Islamic forum!

[GuestFellow]

It’s funny how your conscience works. For example, your friend could say to you, “Maybe you should go to the gym.” The next thing you do is say, “Why are you calling me fat?”

Read some books before joining an Islamic forum!

Ignore the troll. Apparently he cannot read.

EDIT: Make that she lol.

[Karl]

:bism:

:salamext:

Can anyone please give me some knowledge regarding the Arab's customs of marriage at the time of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)? I mean he married Hazrat Ayesha when she was 9 years old. There are some Muslim sites which try to argue that she was not 9 but 16 or 17 etc when she married the Prophet. But that's not right as I have read an authentic hadith of Sahih Bukhari where she herself says that she was 9 years old at the time of her marriage.

Yes, you are correct that this is in the Sahih Bukhari. I find it pitiful that some "Muslims" today are trying to nudge up Aisha's age to in order to conform to the standards of what new age American and British culture approves of. Such Muslims who try to do this are being disgracefully dishonest, and we can know too well that the only reason they are trying to fool us all is because they are complete sycophants to America and Britain. The motivation is patently OBVIOUS. The bigotry and negative thinking towards early marriage is something born out of a newly founded morality which was instigated by the West. This newly found morality is NOT part of some kind of internalized "progression" in Asian/Islamic culture, but rather it is a mentality completely invented and promoted independently by the West, just as things like homosexuality and fornication is now promoted by the disturbed West. I am completely baffled by the West's complete hypocrisy because on one hand they have invented a newly founded morality against the divine and wholesome practice of early marriage while on the other hand they have also invented another newly founded morality that promotes old men going to bed with each other. The West is on a crusade to promulgate these grotesque new ideas and thrust them on extraneous cultures. The West has also been on an intentional agenda to dumb down their own children, that's why their 9 year olds act more like 2 year olds, it's quite pathetic really.

DON'T allow the infidels the satisfaction of seeing us of ever sycophantically buckling in to these newly founded mentalities! Because if you DO, then they have won and you have lost.

But you know that the non-Muslims say many pathetic things about our beloved Prophet that he married a child and ... all other crap.

But SO WHAT if our beloved prophet married a child? SO WHAT? WHY would you allow yourself to feel "bad" about this?? Just because the infidels don't like child marriages, why then the sense of obligation to blindly jump on their ridiculous band wagon? They have completely separate moralities to us and we should not let that bother us. Why do we need to think in exactly the same way as non Muslims for? Why is that so important?? Child marriage is allowed under Islam, and that's all that is important here. Don't let the kafir play guilt games on your mind. The moment you allow yourself to feel "bad" is the moment the infidels have won over you.

Remember that the very same infidels who make attacks on child marriage also promote things like adultery and homosexuality...so are you also going to feel "bad' just because the infidels play guilt trip games on you if you do not also want to jump on their band wagon in promoting adultery as well?? NO, you WON'T if you are a good Muslim with strong mind and sound judgment. Never allow the infidels to grind you down, for that is exactly what they are trying to do. Instead what you need to do is have nothing to do with them. They are the Djinn with the forked tongues of snakes and they are trying to play with your mind and steer you in wrong paths. Whenever you do need to rebut them, be most careful that you do it in such a way that does not give any credence to the very mentality itself behind their attack. For example, if an infidel makes attack on Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) for his marriage with Aisha, and a foolish Muslim answers back by saying something like "but Muhammed (PBUH) didn't marry Aisha when she was 6, she was 35 instead blah blah blah", this very kind of pathetic defense only acknowledges a validity to the very moral basis of the infidels' attack. It's like if an infidel attacked the prophet for eating tomatoes. Now a very weak minded Muslim might say something like "but prophet didn't eat tomatoes, he ate plums instead". That kind of defense only acknowledges that eating tomatoes is bad in the first place. See what I mean? A good Muslim of strong constitution will instead rebut the infidel attacks against Muhammed (PBUH) by saying that "You yourselves in the West might have newly invented this to be a "problem", but nonetheless, YOU are NOT us! One size does not fit all. Ok our morality and ways of thinking might not suit you, but neither does your morality and ways of thinking suit us. We are not the same, so therefore your new morality means nothing to us. Ultimately it is simply not a "problem" under Islam and it is accepted under Islam. END OF STORY."

This makes me feel bad as I myself think that 9 year girl is just a child.imsad

Well that completely depends on the race of human you are talking about. My own sisters were certainly not "children" at the age of 9, they were adolescent youth not all that far away to being fully grown. But my question is again: SO WHAT even if they ARE "children"? Why does everyone need to think of marriage and its sexual context only in visions of bestial violent thrusting commonly perceived as part of the process of reproduction itself? The love life of a married couple is far more exploratory and imaginative than that! Just because a husband may go to bed with his child bride does NOT automatically mean that they will try and actually reproduce. Besides, this will usually not be the case anyway because it is a sheer scientific impossibility for the prepubescent girl to be able to bare young. However, there is the exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual sides of love making that is absent of actual coitus, and this is an indulgence that a husband and his child bride are able to enjoy without the need for the unrealistic burden of actual reproduction itself at a too young age. Unlike the prudish attitudes towards sexual matters of the Judeo-Christian faiths, Islam is open minded and positive towards sex and erotic love making between husband and wife. Age per se is irrelevant under Islam and is NOT a prerequisite to sexual relations; rather, it is MARRIAGE itself that renders sexual relations halal.

If the Arabs had some custom of having younger brides than please can anyone explain me this?

At the end of the day it's "to each their own" with something like this. It's a very private matter and should never be a political or "social" issue . But to try and help answer your question...many people have varying reasons. There are many good reasons for a preference for prepubescent brides. First, they are purest virgins. It also is a way in which husband and bride can book each other at an early stage. It's also a plain fact that many men have an appreciation for and have the opportunity to enjoy certain qualities in their wife that will be short lived. If one is honest with themselves they will know obviously well that a prepubescent girl glows with the magical beauty of youth itself, as given by Allah, her skin is so perfect, her eyes are so sharp, she has a kind of beauty that is very short lived. She is so pristine in every physical way. Why wouldn't any normal heterosexual man admire these divine qualities?

[amalteser]

Salam alykum

First, I do not care about the opinion of Non-Muslims about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Whatever opinion they may have of Prophet (peace be upon him) will be negative since it is a clear threat to their way of life. Second, I do not have problem with any of the Prophet (peace be upon him) marriages he is allowed to marry whom he (peace be upon him) wishes or desires. As for Aisha R.A. being 9 years of age when the Prophet (peace be upon him) married her. I do not see any problem with this either, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) scarified way too much for me to question him. Who am I to question the Prophet (peace be upon him) judgment? If he wished to marry 200 women I still would see no problem in his divine decision. His (peace be upon him) message is clear "There is no God But Allah and Muhammad is his slave and servant" How can people who claim that a man told them he is "Son of God" and brought the truth challenge a man who gave up everything and said he is slave of One true God. There is no religion that can have such greatness as Islam. The reason negative views bother us is not because of the views themselves rather over Eman. We should gain more knowledge and increase our awareness of the Deen. Only an ignorant person would bark back at a dog, an intelligent person would realize there is no point in barking back at the dog. The animal has no common sense to understand the reality. Similarly, people who do not see the message of Islam to be the truth even though the message is clear then it is pointless for us to respond back to them. These people have lost their intellect they can no longer think for themselves, responding to them is like responding to a dog. Study the Seerah of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) everyone will realize the truth and everything will fall in place. I highly recommend The Sealed Nectar.

In no way is this intended for the sister that posted the question. This is only refereeing to Muslims as mentioned trying to deceive the people and lie about our Deen.

Sounds like you are brainwashed!
Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!
It is recorded that Aisha was still playing with dolls when she was married!
And how does comparisons with the customs of Arab non muslims at the time and the kuffar at any time in history come in to it?
Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

[GuestFellow]

Sounds like you are brainwashed!
Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!
It is recorded that Aisha was still playing with dolls when she was married!
And how does comparisons with the customs of Arab non muslims at the time and the kuffar at any time in history come in to it?
Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

Age does not matter as long as they reached puberty. Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) herself had been pleased with the marriage. In Islam if a women is not happy with the marriage, then they can always get a divorce.

You need to study Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) life. His wives were always treated with utmost respect.

Did you read the entire thread?

[Rasema]

Sounds like you are brainwashed!
Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!
It is recorded that Aisha was still playing with dolls when she was married!
And how does comparisons with the customs of Arab non muslims at the time and the kuffar at any time in history come in to it?
Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

Please read before posting, at least your own posts.
You said" Muhammad,saws, married Aisha when she was six and raped her when she was nine. If He,saws, was such a rapist wouldn't He rape her when she was six? And, if she was raised by a rapist. She would not be emotionally or physically healthy. In the contrary, Muhammad,saws, raised her to be the most knowledgeable, modest and healty in the town.

Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!

You're judgeing what you have no knowledge about.

Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

Muhammad,saws, had an exeption in certain things because whatever He did was for Islam. Allah doesn't prohibit us from marring people as long as we do it the halal way. We can marry when ever we FEEL like we need to. Aisha loved Muhammad,saws.

[Rasema]

Good one brother Karl.

[Mujahideen92]

She wasnt married at 9, she was engaged at 9. She was married a year or two later. Atleast according to my biography

[julesfly]

It's also a plain fact that many men have an appreciation for and have the opportunity to enjoy certain qualities in their wife that will be short lived. If one is honest with themselves they will know obviously well that a prepubescent girl glows with the magical beauty of youth itself, as given by Allah, her skin is so perfect, her eyes are so sharp, she has a kind of beauty that is very short lived. She is so pristine in every physical way. Why wouldn't any normal heterosexual man admire these divine qualities?

Wow, you are right we really do have different morals. I didn't realise how different till i read this. Came onto this forum to learn more and have tried to remain open minded but i am finding this very difficult to get my head round. Is this the genaral view re child brides? I do not believe it is. Although i find this hard to deal with I will still try to respect others views and not make inflammatory remarks. Wish the author of this post could do the same. FYI we non-muslims are not all immoral, drunken *****s with no values out to denigrate and disrespect your religion. imsad

[GuestFellow]

Wow, you are right we really do have different morals. I didn't realise how different till i read this. Came onto this forum to learn more and have tried to remain open minded but i am finding this very difficult to get my head round. Is this the genaral view re child brides? I do not believe it is. Although i find this hard to deal with I will still try to respect others views and not make inflammatory remarks. Wish the author of this post could do the same. FYI we non-muslims are not all immoral, drunken *****s with no values out to denigrate and disrespect your religion. imsad

No one is actually sure how old Ayesha was (May Allah be pleased with her). It does not really matter what your age is as long your mentally capable of handling the responsibility as a wife or husband. She reached puberty so I don't think she would have been considered a child. She grew up to be a very intelligent women and an academic alhamdulillah.

Things were very different 1400 years ago. Looking up at classical history does portray times were very different back then.

BTW do not get the impression Muslims think all non-Muslims are immoral. Some Muslims do not behave properly either.

[Mujahideen92]

I dont see anything wrong with the marriage of Aisha and Muhammad(SAW). They both lived very happily together, some people go about it as if Aisha was under oppression in this marriage.

Muhammad(SAW) died in Aisha's lap and she cried intensely

[julesfly]

Thankyou Guestfellow. That means alot. I am aware that things were very different back then and still are very different in many modern cultures. I try to remind myself that my beliefs are an outcome of the social conditioning I have recieved (which doesn't make them automatically right) and try to remain tolerant and open minded about those views formed in different cultural environments. Thanks again.

[AbdullahSyed]

Sounds like you are brainwashed!
Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!
It is recorded that Aisha was still playing with dolls when she was married!
And how does comparisons with the customs of Arab non muslims at the time and the kuffar at any time in history come in to it?
Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

Surely Mohammad's life and behaviour should be beyond reproach!

Prove to me his (peace be upon him) message was wrong. If the message is wrong then there is no need for us debate over his(peace be upon him) personal life. But if his message is right then agian there is no need for us to debate his (peace be upon him) personal life. You get the idea!

Its not about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) life its about his (peace be upon him) message. You are only deluding yourself and others by ignoring the message.

It is recorded that Aisha was still playing with dolls when she was married!

Congratulations, so you can read. What does this have to do with anything? She R.a. played with dolls and???

And how does comparisons with the customs of Arab non muslims at the time and the kuffar at any time in history come in to it?

I could careless about the customs of Arab back in the days. Its some Muslims who seem to keep bringing up customs of Arabs. In reality, this marriage had less to do with Arab custom more to do with divine ruling.

Surely, whatever Mohammad did, had to be sanctioned by allah!
Therefore, does allah sanction child marriage today?

If by child marriage you are refering to Aisha R.a. marrying Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) then yes this is sanctioned by Allah. But as far as Muslims marrying women at young age. Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki says this ruling is only for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) not the other men.

[AbdullahSyed]

She wasnt married at 9, she was engaged at 9. She was married a year or two later. Atleast according to my biography

Akhi try to get your facts straight. She R.A. was six when she the Nikah was done and she was nine when she moved in with Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

[Karl]

If by child marriage you are refering to Aisha R.a. marrying Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) then yes this is sanctioned by Allah. But as far as Muslims marrying women at young age. Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki says this ruling is only for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) not the other men.

You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

It is utterly preposterous to suggest that a prophet should lead by double standards and hypocrisy. This is because these are amongst the greatest sins against Allah. A prophet is meant to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, NOT by hypocrisy, double standards and special privileges! It is only patently logical that if child marriage WAS hypothetically considered "haram" for the "common man", then Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) simply would NOT have married Aisha. Why? Well because he would have been well aware that the common man would have been closely observing his paragon and trying to emulate it. He would not have wanted to risk giving the "wrong" message to his followers, particularly simple followers who could easily have misconceived his "privileged haram" to be halal instead. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was egalitarian and he didn't consider himself to be more deserving of privileges than anyone else. He was constantly stating that he was no more than the messenger of Allah, he did NOT consider himself to be privileged like some self deifying Pharaoh or group of self privileged hypocrites such as the Pharisees.

[Karl]

Wow, you are right we really do have different morals. I didn't realise how different till i read this. Came onto this forum to learn more and have tried to remain open minded but i am finding this very difficult to get my head round. Is this the genaral view re child brides? I do not believe it is. Although i find this hard to deal with I will still try to respect others views and not make inflammatory remarks. Wish the author of this post could do the same. FYI we non-muslims are not all immoral, drunken *****s with no values out to denigrate and disrespect your religion. imsad

Look julesfly, I simply don't even regard this so called "child brides" thing as an "issue" to begin with, it has only been because the modern day West has decided to make some big deal out of it that us Muslims have had to exhaustively and repetitiously bother ourselves going into rebutting all the ridiculous inanity and nitty gritty bs. The numerical age anyone happens to marry should be no more of a "social issue" than what school (if any) you want to send your daughter to. At the end of the day all these things are a PRIVATE matter and not up to anyone else other than the family themselves to make judgments and decisions on. Different parents will always have different ideas about how to raise their offspring, plain and simple fact of the matter. I can't see why some people seem to think that it's so imperative that everyone arrives at some kind of "unanimous agreement" on this. Not only is this completely unrealistic to achieve, but also I not some sort of busybody cummunist who's interested in meddling into anyone else's private business. How I raise my own offspring in none of anyone's business, nor is how they raise their offspring my business. People should just do their own thing and raise their OWN offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. Once everyone can re-learn that traditional principle and the maxim that "a man's house is his castle", the world will be a much more harmonious place for it.

[AbdullahSyed]

You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

We are not scholars but Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki is and he has never seemed to try to please the west. He always spoke his mind. Also, don't forget Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was allowed to marry more then 4 women. There were exceptions for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

[GuestFellow]

^ Yes we are not here to please the non-Muslims. Just provide more information and clarification.

[julesfly]

SO WHAT even if they ARE "children"? Why does everyone need to think of marriage and its sexual context only in visions of bestial violent thrusting commonly perceived as part of the process of reproduction itself? The love life of a married couple is far more exploratory and imaginative than that! Just because a husband may go to bed with his child bride does NOT automatically mean that they will try and actually reproduce. Besides, this will usually not be the case anyway because it is a sheer scientific impossibility for the prepubescent girl to be able to bare young. However, there is the exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual sides of love making that is absent of actual coitus, and this is an indulgence that a husband and his child bride are able to enjoy without the need for the unrealistic burden of actual reproduction itself at a too young age. Unlike the prudish attitudes towards sexual matters of the Judeo-Christian faiths, Islam is open minded and positive towards sex and erotic love making between husband and wife. Age per se is irrelevant under Islam and is NOT a prerequisite to sexual relations; rather, it is MARRIAGE itself that renders sexual relations halal.

The above comment is not in relationship to the prophet but regarding Islam in general. Does the religion condone sex (whether ''actual coitus'' or not) with children? Do other muslims on the forum agree with this? Do you think a little girl can ''enjoy exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual love making''? There are men in all cultures who have convinced themselves this is the case and we have our own names for them. All over the forum people state that a woman has a choice whether or not to marry. Do you really believe a girl with a meagre 9 years of life experience has the ability to make her own informed choices on these types of matters. Are they capable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues. Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child is incapable of taking. If you disagree with this then i think it is sooooo important that you openly condemn this.

[Rasema]

The above comment is not in relationship to the prophet but regarding Islam in general. Does the religion condone sex (whether ''actual coitus'' or not) with children? Do other muslims on the forum agree with this? Do you think a little girl can ''enjoy exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual love making''? There are men in all cultures who have convinced themselves this is the case and we have our own names for them. All over the forum people state that a woman has a choice whether or not to marry. Do you really believe a girl with a meagre 9 years of life experience has the ability to make her own informed choices on these types of matters. Are they capable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues. Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child is incapable of taking. If you disagree with this then i think it is sooooo important that you openly condemn this.

1) Prophet Muhammad's marriage to A'isha was normal by all standards of society.
2) A'isha was a healthy young girl before he married her, she agreed to the marriage, and she grew up to be one of the greatest Muslims (both man and woman) to have ever existed.
3) You are shaped by your own society's definition of normal and abnormal, therefore in a society that considers this to be wrong, you are more likely to reciprocate the same sentiments.



So because something does not sit well with our minds and hearts, we should convince ourselves that it must not be true? Let me give you an example. When I first heard that Muslim men are allowed to have sexual relations with their female slaves, I thought to myself, based entirely on the influence western upbringing has had on my mind, that this simply CANNOT be true. And now? I've accepted it. If not, I would have ended up calling certain verses in the Qur'an as being "unreliable".

For God's sake, look at what this man's saying:

The Prophet was an exemplary man. All his actions were most virtuous so that we, Muslims, can emulate them. However, most people in our Islamic Center of Toledo, including me, would not think of betrothing our seven years daughter to a fifty-two year-old man. If a parent agrees to such a wedding, most people, if not all, would look down upon the father and the old husband.

He is judging Hadiths based entirely on his upbringing, and that of people around him. "People would not find it acceptable". "I do not find it acceptable". "If it is considered unacceptable, then there is no way Islam would condone it". How ridiculous. In the west (where he obviously lives), certain things are considered taboo. People who do these things are social outcasts and are shunned by society. Should we look at the Qur'an and the Hadiths through their eyes? If something does not seem right to us because we've been taught otherwise, would we go out of our way to convince ourself and others that it is wrong? He would have received a bit of respect from me if his motives weren't so horrendous to begin with.

I'm sorry, friends, but the day I take a westernized physician's opinions over those of esteemed scholars (both the past and the present), is the day that I relinquish Islam. Not to mention his facts are dubious and grossly biased.







However, your argument that it's damaging to the girl isn't always true, because A'isha was a mentally, emotionally and physically fit young girl who grew up to be a mentally, emotionally and physically fit woman. Anyone who learns about her life will discover that she was never traumatized in her marriage to prophet Muhammad.

Where I'm from and where a majority of the posters are from, it's perfectly normal for any young person, male or female, to be married. This is because our boys and girls mature a lot faster than western children do. By the age of 10, most boys are bringing in money to the family and most girls are looking after the entire household. Different conditions and social values create for different results.

Do I support marriage when there are huge age differences? No. If anything, prophet Muhammad encouraged people to marry those who're in their age group. Nor do I consider it okay for an old man to desire marriage to a young girl for no reason other than her youth. That's disturbing. But if you look at prophet Muhammad's lifestyle, character and even marriage history, you'll realize that he had no preference for young girls, nor did he marry her for any reason beyond forming ties between two households.

A'isha was engaged to another man before prophet Muhammad. That man was a non-Muslim and the engagement was broken. It wasn't unusual for young girls to be married during that period of time. The same was happening all over the world, from Africa to Europe to Asia.

Your aversion to such a marriage is really based on your own societal norms. And those Muslims who do not believe A'isha was young probably have the same upbringing. And when they learn about something they find hard to believe, they reject it outright.





Sexual relationship with minor or imature girl is not strange in the human history. Irrespective it is declared as legal or illegal, men of every ages had been involved in sexual relationship with younger girl in all nations of the world. Historical records also confirm that it is a common trends for men, specially those having wealth and power, to marry with younger and beautiful girls. Even today, in all (so called) developed countries, men are (offcourse illegally) involved having sex with imature girls too. Official reports confirm that today it is rare to find any 'bachelor girl' in the secondary classes of usa schools. Isn't mean that sex with younger girls are common even now a days?

Islam doesn't believe on hypocrisy or double standard. That's why Islam allow men to marry (i.e. only a 'legal-sexual relationship') all ages of girls. Marriage, in islam, is a social contract between a male and female in the presence of at least two adult men as witness. For marriage in islam, it is compulsory that 1) both male and female are willingly agreed 2) father or legal patron of female is agreed too. 3) If girl is too younger /immature, willing of her father / patron alone is enough 4) similarly if female is re-marrying (in case of widow or dovorced lady) her alone will is enough 4) At least two respectable muslim adult men are agreed to witness that marriage 5) male agree to pay such marrige-gift (called mahar) which is acceptable to female.

Every one can see that in islam, though it is allowed to marry with younger girl, but Almighty God has put several conditions, and without fulfiling these condition no man can marry any younger girl. And marriage in islam is always take place in open meeting. If parents dont want to marry their younger girls, no one can force them to do so. But if they agree, no one is allowed to interfere into the marriage of a younger girl even with a aged man.

Now let's see the permission of Almighty Allah (God), allowing such marriages. Quran clearly says.

1. O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no iddah (divorce prescribed period) have you to count in respect of them. So give them a present, and set them free (i.e. divorce), in a handsome manner. (Al-Ahzab-49)

2. And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed periods), if you have doubt (about their period), is three months, and for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they laydown their burden, and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him. (Talaq-4)

In second verse Allah mentions 'iddah periods' for divorce is three months for such girl who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). And in first verse, Allah says that there is no 'iddah periods' if you divorce without sexual intercourse. It means that a man can have sexual intercourse with his younger or immature wife.

Now let's see the marriage case of Muhammad (peace be upon him) with hazrat Ayesha RA. Though it is not confirmed that her age at the time of marriage was just six. some also says that she was 11 at that time. But for the sake of argument, we agree that her age was six. Then what is wrong with it. Quran allows such marriage. Hazrat Abu bakar siddiq RA willingly married his daughter Ayesha with his friend and prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This marriage was took place openly and no one opposed it. Was it a illegal or unethical act by any means? This is another story that why Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him) decided to marry with younger Ayesha RA. Our Prophet knew that he was not only sent towards men but towards women too. Being a men, HE (pbuh) can not easily convey Almighty God's message to women community. And HE (pbuh) also knew that after His death, only younger hazrat Ayesha RA can convey islam's message to women community for a longer period. that's why HE (pbuh) decided to have a younger wife. Other wise at the young age of 25 our prophet Muhammad (pbuh) chose a widfow of 40 years (hazrat Khadeejah tul kubraa RA) to marry. Muhammad (pbuh) was a man of character in that corrupted society. And this was witnessed by His several enemies as well.

[Rasema]

The above was not written by myself.

[Rasema]

Does the religion condone sex (whether ''actual coitus'' or not) with children? Do other muslims on the forum agree with this? Do you think a little girl can ''enjoy exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual love making''?

What is your argument? That a nine year old cannot have sex?

Do you really believe a girl with a meagre 9 years of life experience has the ability to make her own informed choices on these types of matters.

"A'isha was engaged to another man before prophet Muhammad. That man was a non-Muslim and the engagement was broken. It wasn't unusual for young girls to be married during that period of time. The same was happening all over the world, from Africa to Europe to Asia."


A'isha was a healthy young girl before he married her, she agreed to the marriage, and she grew up to be one of the greatest Muslims (both man and woman) to have ever existed.

Are they capable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues.

That is why she grew up to be the most knowledgeable thus healthy physically and emotinally.

[amalteser]

You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

It is utterly preposterous to suggest that a prophet should lead by double standards and hypocrisy. This is because these are amongst the greatest sins against Allah. A prophet is meant to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, NOT by hypocrisy, double standards and special privileges! It is only patently logical that if child marriage WAS hypothetically considered "haram" for the "common man", then Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) simply would NOT have married Aisha. Why? Well because he would have been well aware that the common man would have been closely observing his paragon and trying to emulate it. He would not have wanted to risk giving the "wrong" message to his followers, particularly simple followers who could easily have misconceived his "privileged haram" to be halal instead. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was egalitarian and he didn't consider himself to be more deserving of privileges than anyone else. He was constantly stating that he was no more than the messenger of Allah, he did NOT consider himself to be privileged like some self deifying Pharaoh or group of self privileged hypocrites such as the Pharisees.

So on this basis then, is any muslim on this forum willing to see a young girl in their family married to a 50 year old man?

Is there any adult muslim man say 18 years or older who wants to be allowed to marry a young girl?

[aamirsaab]

So on this basis then, is any muslim on this forum willing to see a young girl in their family married to a 50 year old man?

Well not in the UK since that marriage would be illegal by the laws of this country. However, I believe the age of consent is 13 or something in China, so it is a possibility in today's world. Not that I wish to practice it.

Is there any adult muslim man say 18 years or older who wants to be allowed to marry a young girl?

Not me. I'm far too young (and skint) for marriage right now ;)

[Rasema]

We are speaking about a Prophet of Allah and not any man, so your argument in asking us, at this period of time, if we would marry a young 6 old girl is not valid. Thus He,saws, had an exception in certain areas.Besides, who would marry a six year old? Was it for His,saws, benefit. Have you no sence?

I would give all my daughters to the Pophet of Allah. In an instant.

[amalteser]

We are speaking about a Prophet of Allah and not any man, so your argument in asking us, at this period of time, if we would marry a young 6 old girl is not valid. Thus He,saws, had an exception in certain areas.Besides, who would marry a six year old? Was it for His,saws, benefit. Have you no sence?

I would give all my daughters to the Pophet of Allah. In an instant.

Quote:Karl
Originally Posted by AbdullahSyed
If by child marriage you are refering to Aisha R.a. marrying Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) then yes this is sanctioned by Allah. But as far as Muslims marrying women at young age. Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki says this ruling is only for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) not the other men.


You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

It is utterly preposterous to suggest that a prophet should lead by double standards and hypocrisy. This is because these are amongst the greatest sins against Allah. A prophet is meant to LEAD BY EXAMPLE, NOT by hypocrisy, double standards and special privileges! It is only patently logical that if child marriage WAS hypothetically considered "haram" for the "common man", then Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) simply would NOT have married Aisha. Why? Well because he would have been well aware that the common man would have been closely observing his paragon and trying to emulate it. He would not have wanted to risk giving the "wrong" message to his followers, particularly simple followers who could easily have misconceived his "privileged haram" to be halal instead. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was egalitarian and he didn't consider himself to be more deserving of privileges than anyone else. He was constantly stating that he was no more than the messenger of Allah, he did NOT consider himself to be privileged like some self deifying Pharaoh or group of self privileged hypocrites such as the Pharisees.

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

[Rasema]

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

You attack my sense, yet muslims have different opinions???

About what exacly? Muslims do not have opinions, but evidence. When there is no explicit evidence then you obviously have different views among the scholars. The science does the same thing.Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

And Mohammad had 11 wives, NOT the 4 wives of the koran???

The Qur’an, in Surah Nisa, chapter 4 verse 3, states that a Muslim is allowed to marry a maximum of only four wives. Another verse in the Qur’an makes Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an exception to this rule.

In Surah Ahzab chapter 33 verse 52:

“It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things “. [Al-Qur’an 33:52

This verse clearly gives Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the permission to keep all his previous wives but prohibits him to marry any more women except those which his right hand possessed i.e. slave girls.

The Prophet (pbuh) was allowed to keep all his previous wives because no one was allowed to marry the Prophet’s wives (ra) after they were divorced or widowed as they were ummul-momineen (mother of the believers).

People falsely accuse the Prophet (pbuh) of being hypersexual (Maaz-Allah), because he had eleven wives. If you read the life history of the Prophet (pbuh), only two of his marriages one with Khadija (ra), and the other, with Ayesha (ra) were marriages in the normal course. All his other marriages were contracted as a necessity and were based on various considerations.

The first marriage of the Prophet (pbuh) took place when he was 25 years of age and he married Khadija (ra) who was twice widowed, and was 40 years old. If the Prophet (pbuh) was hypersexual, why would he marry a woman who was 15 years older than him and already twice widowed?

Until his first wife, Khadija (ra) was alive, he never took a second wife. Khadija (ra) expired when the Prophet (pbuh) was 50 years age and only after this, did he marry the others. If he married eleven wives for sexual reasons, he should have had multiple wives during his youth. Contrary to this, history tells us that all his marriages with his remaining ten wives took place when he was between the age of 53 and 59 years.

All his wives (ra) were between the age of 36 to 50 years, except for two wives (ra). His reputation had spread far and wide, not only in Arabia, but also in the neighboring countries. Could he not have easily got younger and lovelier girls to marry? Most of his marriages were for political gain and for the spread of Islaam.

In Arabia, no one could carry on the work of reform and upliftment unless he belonged to, or was related to some specific and respectable tribe. Thus, in the interest of his mission, the Prophet (pbuh) needed inter-tribal relationships. He wanted to weld the quarreling tribal and clannish factions into one Muslim ummah, as brethren in faith (Ikhwan fi’d-din).

For instance, his wife Juwayreeyah (ra) belonged to the Banu Mustaliq clan, which was very powerful. The entire clan was a bitter enemy of Islam from the start, and they were finally suppressed by military action. When the Prophet (pbuh) married Juwayreeyah (ra), the Muslims released all their prisoners, saying that they could not keep the prophet’s relatives in bondage. It was due to this marriage that the whole clan of Banu Mustaliq accepted Islam and became peaceful and obedient to the laws of the new Islaamic state.

Maymunah (ra) also came from a very powerful and recalcitrant clan from Najd and was the sister of the wife of the chief of the clan in those days. It was this clan which had brutally murdered seventy members of an Islaamic missionary deputation. The Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage with Maymunah (ra) changed the whole atmosphere and Najd accepted Madinah’s authority under the leadership of the Prophet (pbuh).

Umm Habibah (ra) was the daughter of the Quraysh chief, Abu Sufyan. It was after the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Umm Habibah, that Abu Sufyan never fought against the Prophet (pbuh). This marriage was largely responsible for the conquest of Makkah. Furthermore, Umm Habibah was first married to a certain Ubaydullah and emigrated with him to Abyssinia, where Ubaydullah became a Christian and a drunkard. Excessive consumption of wine killed him since it was a double shock to her that her husband had become a Christian and later died, she was badly in need of solace.

Safiyyah (ra) was the daughter of a very prominent Jewish chief, Huyyah ibn Aktab. In consideration of her family status, she could not be merged into an ordinary household. So the Prophet (pbuh) himself married her. After this marriage, the Jews did not dare to revive their opposition to the Prophet (pbuh) and his mission.

In the case of Hafsah (ra), it was the Prophet’s (pbuh) desire to bind in relationship with those of his great companions (sahabah) who were his advisers and who were trained for future leadership. He had married Abu Bakr’s (ra) daughter, married two of his own daughters to Uthman (ra) and one to ‘Ali (ra). ‘Umar (ra) could not be kept outside this wide circle of relationship. By marrying Umar’s daughter Hafsah (ra), the Prophet (pbuh) forged a strong bond of relationship within the Islamic movement thus strengthening the pillars of the ummah.

The Prophet (pbuh) had married his first cousin, Zaynab (ra), to his freed slave, Zayd ibn Haritha (ra), whom he had adopted as his son. This marriage of Zaynab (ra) with Zayd (ra) was intended to break the family and social barriers, but the marriage did not prove to be successful and ended in divorce. When the Prophet (pbuh) saw that Zaynab (ra) was left alone, he felt his responsibility in the matter. He also had to break another convention, according to which an adopted son became a real son. This difficult problem was solved by the Prophet’s (pbuh) marriage to Zaynab (ra) (as mentioned in the Qur’an, in Surah Ahzab, chapter no 33 verse 37) to annul that pre-Islamic conception and promulgate an Islamic law instead.

Another lady Zaynab (ra), Umm al Masakin (mother of the poor and helpless), daughter of Khuzayma ibn Al-Haith, belonged to the Hawazin clan. Her husband was killed in the battle of Uhud. To rescue her from widowhood, the Prophet (pbuh) took her as his wife.

After the revelation of the verse in Surah Ahzab, chapter 33 verse 52, the Prophet (pbuh) only married Mary the Copt who was a slave girl sent as a present by the Christian Muqauqas of Egypt. Since the Christian Chieftain of Egypt sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) a slave girl as a present, he could not refuse this gift as a refusal would have disturbed the political alliance. He could not keep her as a slave girl, since Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) preached that slaves should be freed. The only option left with him was to marry her, since the Qur’an gave him the permission to do so. Later on she became the mother of Ibrahim (ra) who died in his infancy.





http://lastisland.wordpress.com/2007...-eleven-wives/

[Masuma]

Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim!(In the name of Allah, the most Gracious and the most Merciful)

Wow, you are right we really do have different morals.

I don't know about you, but some of the non-Muslims don't consider homosexuality and extra-marital relations as wrong. Well, we Muslims do! Business men take interest whereas in Islam, it is a war you do with Allah if you take interest!
Bribing and other such crimes are forbidden in Islam. So you can say that here we have differences in our morals!

Please note that I don't say ALL non-Muslims are like this! What I have said is clear; some non-Muslims don't consider these evils as crimes. Now you may say that Muslims too practice these evils. But let me tell you that such people are only NAME-SAKE Muslims! They pay less attention to Islamic teachings. A true Muslim will never consider these crimes as something allowed in Islam. Muslim is one who submits his will to Allah (SWT). So these true Muslims and non-Muslims obviously seem to have differences in their morals! (Some non-Muslims don't even consider these immoralities as wrong!)

Came onto this forum to learn more and have tried to remain open minded but i am finding this very difficult to get my head round.

So which questions regarding Islam are bothering you dear sis? Would you like to share? Maybe I can explain them to you. InshAllah (if God wills)! We can discuss them if you want! If you didn't understand anything in this thread, we can discuss that too.:statisfie

FYI we non-muslims are not all immoral, drunken *****s with no values out to denigrate and disrespect your religion. imsad

And I know that!:statisfie Not all non-Muslims are immoral.

[Masuma]

No one is actually sure how old Ayesha was (May Allah be pleased with her).

?

"Not sure?" What do you mean?

But I AM SURE. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim says that she was engaged at the age of 6 and when she was handed over to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), she was 9!

I have edited my OP and have added this hadith there. http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1231867

[Masuma]

Brother Karl wrote:You are completely right that child marriage is sanctioned by Allah, but what I do object to is any such deceptive claims about it only being granted Allah's ratification solely and exclusively to Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). Asserting that "what was good for Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is not a good model for the common man to follow" is clearly an apologetic cop-out tactic to try and repackage and politically correctify Islam to be more "user friendly" with the contemporary West. Such claims that only Muhammed himself (PBUH) should follow Allah's intentions can only be tantamount to heresy.

We are not scholars but Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki is and he has never seemed to try to please the west. He always spoke his mind. Also, don't forget Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was allowed to marry more then 4 women. There were exceptions for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

@ Brother Karl:
Brother, there were some exceptions which the Prophet of Allah was granted like marrying more than 4 wives but ordinary Muslims can't marry more than 4. So one can also argue on this too that why he was granted exceptions. But please note that I don't say like brother AbdullahSyed that marrying 9 year old girls is allowed or disallowed! Fact is, I don't know. You should too not argue on such things without 100% proof.
Many governments today don't allow marriages below the age of 18!

So if you say that marrying a 9 year old is allowed, then you should have some authentic verses or ahadith supporting it or directing at it. If there are such verses, then believe me, I don't have any problem with that.

So let this issue rest aside till we have some authentic rulings.

@ Brother AbdullahSyed:
Brother, it seems that you believe Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki to be a very reliable authority. He might be, but what I think is this that don't take rulings of only one Shaykh to be 100% authentic! Because it is too normal that he might be wrong. So you should too have some real authentic proofs backing up your beliefs and till you don't have any, it is nice to not support it yet.

Wasalam!:statisfie

[Masuma]

... The science does the same thing.Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

Ummmm..., there is one psychologist called Freud S. year (1990) who was an asset of psychological study. He made psychology reach new heights, was very famous actually.

So maybe you were referring to him.

I have read one case study of Freud "Little Hans" in which he tries to prove that even some children near to puberty have sexual desires too. This is what he says. I myself don't know whether he is right in this or not.

Allah knows best!

[Raphael]

If there is anything that can put me to sleep faster than hearing someone talk about their latest adventures on Twitter, its this question!

There were many things the prophet was attacked on during his lifetime; His beliefs were ridiculed, he was treated with contempt, and some people were spiteful just for the sake of it!

One thing he was never questioned or confronted about however, was his marriage to Aisha! Not by the pagans, the Jews, or even the Christians at that time!

The question is a trap, and one that Muslims fall into by the masses.

People are a product of their environments, and the cultural norms have moved, such that marriage to children is frowned severely upon, with good cause too! Part of the reason for this, is of course most stories you hear about adult-child relationships are that of an abusive nature. One where an adult, whose sexual deviance, and predatory nature has moved them into forcing a child to do things they do not understand. The relationship is a sexual one, a deviant one, a damaging one.

There are two types of people who ask this question. Those that use it as an insult, whose question should not be dignified with an answer. Then there are those that find genuine suprise that Muslims revere a man who married a child. The Muslims who find this topic a fitna may also fit into this category.

The truth is usually so simple, its right under your nose.

Instead of debating how old Aisha really was, or making attacking videos of child marriages in other scriptures, or just recoiling abusively, the simple answer is to accept the hadith, and respond that cultures were different then.

The prophet married many other women, and none other as young as Aisha. For a man that gained the power he did before his death, he could have had any woman - or girl. The question for those that are truly concerned, is why not?

We have a compendium of sayings from Aisha, and we know her feelings, and thoughts about the Prophet. This was a woman who became a great scholar of Islam because of this relationship, and her affection, and protectiveness for the prophet are clear in her sayings. A far cry from the standard model of child abusers whose only interests are satisfying their sexual desires, or the permanent mental scars of the victims.

To understand something as simple as another culture, requires only sincerity. Nothing more. You could quote various statistics, such as the age of consent in the European countries just a hundred or so years ago, but you would be missing the point completely!

The answer of this querulous question does not come down to the actions of a man that lived a millenia and a half ago, but in the heart of the person asking.


Good Day!

[Uthman]

Raphael, your post is the most sensible thing I have read all day.

[Raphael]

Raphael, your post is the most sensible thing I have read all day.

JazakAllah brother.

[Karl]

"People are a product of their environments, and the cultural norms have moved, such that marriage to children is frowned severely upon, with good cause too!"

There's no 'good' cause to it at all. All it really is is a newly founded morality treacherously instigated and promulgated by misandronistic feminists, homosexuals and Zionists, based on nothing but subjective arguments, preconceptions and out and out bigotry.The "good cause" you are talking about is really just a subterfuge. Ulterior motives are what primarily drive this newly founded secular morality.

Part of the reason for this, is of course most stories you hear about adult-child relationships are that of an abusive nature. One where an adult, whose sexual deviance, and predatory nature has moved them into forcing a child to do things they do not understand.

"Predator", "deviant". You have learned the fine art of the American psycho babbling parlance as empoyed by the "sex abuse industry", lol. It's kind of odd how you first say "forcing a child to do things" followed by "they do not understand". Surely if someone is being"forced" into something, why then does it matter wether or not they "understand" the thing they are being forced into?? If a thief stabs me in the back with a knife and steals my money, do you think it would really make any difference to me whether or not I understood why he did it?

The relationship is a sexual one, a deviant one, a damaging one.

Let's pull that apart then. "A Sexual one": There is no inherent problem in sex per se. "A deviant one": depends what you mean by "deviant". I regard old men who go to bed with each other as deviant. I regard lesbians as deviant. I regard feminazis as deviant, I regard infidelity as deviant. They are all deviant from the path of Islam. If a male and female are not wedded then yes that is deviant because it is zina, but if a man is married to a young girl, then this is blessed by Allah, it is not deviant. "A damaging one": If you mean "traumatic", then that can only really happen if one party is being literally raped.

There are two types of people who ask this question. Those that use it as an insult, whose question should not be dignified with an answer. Then there are those that find genuine suprise that Muslims revere a man who married a child

The two are essentially the same. The former are wolves, the latter are wolves in sheeps clothing.

The truth is usually so simple, its right under your nose.

Clearly then the "truth" that lies under your nose is very different to the one that lies under my nose. When I am confronted with posts like this, I smell nothing but BS.

A far cry from the standard model of child abusers whose only interests are satisfying their sexual desires, or the permanent mental scars of the victims.

There is nothing wrong with satisfying one's sexual desire as long as the two are married first. I don't know why you employ politically correct psycho babble cliches like "child abusers", you'd be better to cut the crap and just use "rapist" instead, that's the traditional word and it makes far more sense. Don't get the idea that only children can fall victim to rapists. Rapists have all kinds of sexual preferences. Some rape females, some rape males, some rape young, some rape the elderly, some rape animals. It would sound silly referring to someone who rapes elderly men as a "elderly man abuser", wouldn't it?:p

To understand something as simple as another culture, requires only sincerity. Nothing more.

Well I've already mentioned wolves in sheeps clothing, and I am quite aware what a troll is as well;D

[Karl]

We are not scholars but Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki is and he has never seemed to try to please the west. He always spoke his mind. Also, don't forget Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was allowed to marry more then 4 women. There were exceptions for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Ahh, but this thing about not to marry more than 4 wives was only a LATER revelation to Muhammed (PBUH). He (PBUH) would not have married more than 4 wives if he was given that revelation beforehand. And since it was only a later revelation suggests that this matter was not of particular importance anyway.

[Karl]

Does the religion condone sex (whether ''actual coitus'' or not) with children?

The Quran does not condemn it so therefore it is permissible under Islam. The burden of proof is on the backs of those who wish to try and claim otherwise. I can tell you that many great scholars and leaders of Islam have actually promoted it rather than discouraged it. Ayatollah Khomeini once declared to all Muslims "Do your very best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house, for it is a divine blessing".

Do you think a little girl can ''enjoy exploratory, erotic, experimental and sensual love making''?

There are swathes of scientific data to proove that children are highly sexual beings with erotic desires. I can remember so from my own childhood, and those who are honest with themselves will know what I'm talking about. Fact is that many prepubescent girls have extraoardinary sexual drive. I've even received sexual advances in the past from them, but fended them off because I did not want to commit the zina of pre-marital sex.

There are men in all cultures who have convinced themselves this is the case and we have our own names for them.

The kafir have made up endless slanderous labels and name tags for anything they dislike. They have invented slanderous name tags for men who possess the perfectly normal attraction to the natural beauty of young maidens, and they have a whole arsenal of slanderous names for Muslims in general...so do you think I'm going to give rat's arse what the infidels call us or think of us?? Naturally if I don't respect them in the first place, how am I going to be bothered by what they say or think?

All over the forum people state that a woman has a choice whether or not to marry. Do you really believe a girl with a meagre 9 years of life experience has the ability to make her own informed choices on these types of matters.

One's numerical AGE per se does NOT define whether or not they are capable or incapable of something. It is just as subjective and prejudice to claim that a person merely because of their youth is "incapable" of a certain undertaking, than to direct the same kind of prejudice towards someone because of their race. Making a prejudgment against someone just because of their AGE alone is outright AGEISM which is just as bad as racism. There are many other much more relevant criteria to take into consideration in regards to whether someone is deemed "capable" of something than judging them simply by their AGE.

I think it's also important to add too that marriage is first and foremost a contract between husband and wife. It can only be reasonably expected in the case of a very inexperienced young girl that her duties and responsibilities will be something that she would learn at her own rate. It would be ridiculous to drop her right into the deep end of things without teaching her first. There would be house duties that she would need to learn over time either through the guidance of her husband or another one of his wives (if he has more than one) or perhaps some other member of the family such as mothers, aunts or friends. It's all something she can learn at her own pace, so it's really no big deal.

Are they capable of taking crucial decisions which are essential for marriage under Quranic guidance, like taking solemn pledge, ascertaining mutual attraction, agreeing to the dowry (including adjustment thereto), ascertaining whether the opposite person is an idol worshipper or not and many other issues.

Well I consider such things to be hardly rocket science. Again, your argument is based purely on preconceptions and subjectivity, and you are arguing all this merely on the basis of someone's age itself, that's a pretty vacuous argument. There are other much more important factors that will render the degree of a person's "capability" for something. This is to do with how informed they are on things and their intrinsic degree of intelligence. I have seen enough 7 year olds in my time to put the intelligence of many 45 year olds to shame! Plain fact is that peoples' intelligence levels will vary across the board and is not determinable by age itself. There are many bright spark children and many DUMB adults too. "Worldliness" is not dependant on age per se, but what someone has been exposed to in their life. An 8 year old experiencing the fast life of a big city and with the world at their fingertips (i.e. internet, educational tv programmes etc) is going to be FAR more worldly than an isolated 50 year old farmer who has done nothing in his life other than the same old day to day routines, year in, and year out. You really need to be much more open minded and further sighted than you are being.

Further, marriage involves taking serious responsibilities on the part of both the spouses concerning the upbringing of the family, which a child is incapable of taking.

There you go again with yet more ageist bigotry. I have taken notice of how you have prefixed the word "child" with "a". This implies that you are referring systematically to every living child on the planet, the vast majority of whom you have never even SEEN in your life. So get off your high horse and stop trying to play God!

For your further information, my daughter who is 8 is married to a husband in his fifties. The marriage has worked FINE and they are both very happy, there are NO "complications" about anything, so don't you ever dare accuse my daughter of being an incapable dizzy idiot. As for the age difference, well I see no problem with that because I am not ageist. But for practical reasons I think it's also ok for there to be a wide age gap as long as the husband is not soooo decrepid as to being at death's door. Some men remain healthy and fit even into quite old age.

If you disagree with this then i think it is sooooo important that you openly condemn this.

Well I don't disagree, so you're completely out of luck! As I said, I have absolutely NO time for agesim and bigoted prejudice. And I can tell you that I know a billion times more about the individual nature of my own daughter and what's the best in her interests than you ever will.

[Karl]

You are shaped by your own society's definition of normal and abnormal, therefore in a society that considers this to be wrong, you are more likely to reciprocate the same sentiments....

If parents dont want to marry their younger girls, no one can force them to do so. But if they agree, no one is allowed to interfere into the marriage of a younger girl even with a aged man

Good points and well said sister Rasema.

And those Muslims who do not believe A'isha was young probably have the same upbringing. And when they learn about something they find hard to believe, they reject it outright.

And that's why the Quran explicitly states that Muslims should not live in kafir countries, so that their minds do not become corrupted with kafir attitudes.

[Karl]

So on this basis then, is any muslim on this forum willing to see a young girl in their family married to a 50 year old man?

Yes certainly! My 8 year old daughter is happily married to her husband who is in his 50's. To this day I have absolutely no regrets. I am a very proud father.

Is there any adult muslim man say 18 years or older who wants to be allowed to marry a young girl?

It's fascinating how you Americans always rely more on legal semantics than common sense to define the age of "adulthood". My race hit puberty at about 8-10 on average and we are fully fledged young adults by age 12, not the grand old age of 18 that you treat like some kind of "magic" number , so either you are relying on legal semantics or your race is WAY different to mine. Hmmm, also 666 is the number of Satan...interesting that 6 + 6 + 6 =18, need I say more? lol.

[Karl]

Which psychologist, was it Frojd? who said that children at the age of six or so are the most aggressive in having sexual desires, or something like that. I'll try to research it.

I think you might be talking about Freud. You are absolutely right that children are inherently sexual beings, and this is one reason why so many Muslim scholars and leaders throughout the ages have recommened early marriage as a measure against zina. The longer a girl is restrained from her romantic and sexual desires the more likely she is to commit zina. This is why Ayatollah Khomeini considered it to be so important for girls to marry as soon as they can. There have also been swathes of evidence from sexologists of contemporary times to prove it too, and you will be most surprised that this research has come from mavericks in West itself, (take for example the Rind study and those such as professor John Money at John Hopkins, and Kinsey etc). The reason why these peoples' voices are not heard in the West is because such truths are heavily censored and legally/politically suppressed by the infidels. So many people who voice such truths are often outcasted and lose their jobs etc.

[Karl]

[I] @ Brother Karl: But please note that I don't say like brother AbdullahSyed that marrying 9 year old girls is allowed or disallowed! Fact is, I don't know. You should too not argue on such things without 100% proof.

Brother An33za, the onus of proof lies on anyone claiming something to be "disallowed", seeing they are the ones trying to make such a claim in the FIRST place. It is only logical that what is allowed under Islam would be anything the Holy Quran does not explicitly condemn. If the Holy Quran openly and explicitly condemns something, then naturally that is disallowed under Islam. However if the Quran does not make any condemnation of something, then it is only obvious as the day is long that it's permissible.This is just common sense. Therefore the marriage of young women or girls of ANY age is permissible under the laws of Islam, crystal clear, plain and simple.

Many governments today don't allow marriages below the age of 18!

That's because they are godless usurpers. I am aware that not only do "age of consent" laws exist in the West, I have heard that these tyranical laws have been enacted by corrupt sycophantic puppet governments of around 17 "Muslim" states (all as a result of pressure and bullying by western powers). This is an utter outrage because not only is the concept of "Age of Consent" in blatant violation to Sharia, it is also in violation against parents' God given right to raise their own offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. The very principle of AoC is in direct violation of the fundamental principle of parental rights and the age old maxim "a man's house is his castle". AoC laws represent an implied declaration by the state that parents' offspring are appropriated by the socialist state right from the time they are born. They are therefore born as "state property", the parent's sole rights are usurped by the totalitarian socialists and they are forcibly demoted to mere "foster parents". The selfrighteous arrogant secularists and busybody socialists are bonafide plundereres of private property and this is one good reason why the fight against them must never end.:raging:

So if you say that marrying a 9 year old is allowed, then you should have some authentic verses or ahadith supporting it or directing at it. If there are such verses, then believe me, I don't have any problem with that.

As I said before, the Holy Qur'an focuses only on what is forbidden, not what is allowed. It works on a similar basis as the 10 commandments of Moses. (example "thou shalt not steal" etc). It is only logical that the Qur'an was formatted in that manner as well, because if it listed every single aspect of life right down to the most smallest and trivial details of what was allowed, one would die of old age before they could finish reading the Qur'an! I also repeat again, the onus of proof remains on anyone attempting to declare something as "haram"!

[Raphael]

All it really is is a newly founded morality treacherously instigated and promulgated by misandronistic feminists, homosexuals and Zionists

Ah yes of course, anyone who finds the sexual abuse of children must be a feminist, homosexual, or a fanatic supporter of the Israeli state. You must be clearly fond of these groups considering they are the only ones with any sense of justice according to your skewed outlook?! :hmm:

It's kind of odd how you first say "forcing a child to do things" followed by "they do not understand". Surely if someone is being"forced" into something, why then does it matter wether or not they "understand" the thing they are being forced into??

It seems your impressive understanding of the human psyce is only second to your love of children. The action is loaded, because it involves the bleeding of a young mind. The coercion of a child towards a sexual action is morally bankrupt because of the exploitation of their naivety. I never thought I would have to explain something so basic to anyone over the age of 10.

Let's pull that apart then. "A Sexual one": There is no inherent problem in sex per se.

Perhaps you should read a statement in context. Any relationship that is purely sexual, is deviant, regardless of marital status. Any husband who views his wife as purely a relief for his desires, with no considerations for her feelings, is not a good husband in my opinion. But I do understand there are some backward Muslim tribes who hold this view. I'm just surprised their members have internet connection.

Clearly then the "truth" that lies under your nose is very different to the one that lies under my nose.

Well I am thankful to Allah for that!

There is nothing wrong with satisfying one's sexual desire as long as the two are married first. I don't know why you employ politically correct psycho babble cliches like "child abusers", you'd be better to cut the crap and just use "rapist" instead, that's the traditional word and it makes far more sense. Don't get the idea that only children can fall victim to rapists. Rapists have all kinds of sexual preferences. Some rape females, some rape males, some rape young, some rape the elderly, some rape animals. It would sound silly referring to someone who rapes elderly men as a "elderly man abuser", wouldn't it?:p

Righttt. :clever:

[amalteser]

Yes certainly! My 8 year old daughter is happily married to her husband who is in his 50's. To this day I have absolutely no regrets. I am a very proud father.





It's fascinating how you Americans always rely more on legal semantics than common sense to define the age of "adulthood". My race hit puberty at about 8-10 on average and we are fully fledged young adults by age 12, not the grand old age of 18 that you treat like some kind of "magic" number , so either you are relying on legal semantics or your race is WAY different to mine. Hmmm, also 666 is the number of Satan...interesting that 6 + 6 + 6 =18, need I say more? lol.

Oh the typical muslim arrogance!!!

And as for your superstious paranoia about 6 + 6 + 6 =18, just laughable!!!

In reply to islam and muslims who must mentally contort themselves, to defend 'child marriage'!!!

What about 'thighing' in islam???

And what about Mohammad's interest in a crawling baby, who he wished to marry when she was grown up, if he lived long enough???

Didn't allah know about the size of a little girls pelvis for child birth???

The start of puberty, does NOT equal maturity!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty

[muslimah_81]

I think anyone that has a problem with the marriage of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) should look into the relationsip they had.
I think they had a beautiful relationship and loved each other dearly.
Any non muslims that question Aisha's age probably need to address things a lot closer to home first.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/4764417.stm

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west...6451-25043975/

[Raphael]

I think anyone that has a problem with the marriage of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) should look into the relationsip they had.
I think they had a beautiful relationship and loved each other dearly.
Any non muslims that question Aisha's age probably need to address things a lot closer to home first.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/4764417.stm

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west...6451-25043975/

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make with the news posts?

[muslimah_81]

non muslims tend to say that Aisha was too young to understand the relationship a husband and wife have and therefore say disgusting things about the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and I think these posts prove that age has nothing to do with it. How can they question the marriage of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to Aisha at the age of 9 when there are kids in this country getting pregnant at the age of 11?
If they dont have a probalem with a kid having sex at that age then they must have a problem with the age difference and I am sure we have seen many cases where there has been a huge age difference between couples yet no outcry about it.
Or have I gone totally off topic? :hiding:
Forgive me if I am not making sense or correct me if I am going on about irrelevant things. (In a nice way though, im quite a sensitive person:embarrass)

[Raphael]

If they dont have a probalem with a kid having sex at that age then they must have a problem with the age difference and I am sure we have seen many cases where there has been a huge age difference between couples yet no outcry about it.
Or have I gone totally off topic? :hiding:
Forgive me if I am not making sense or correct me if I am going on about irrelevant things. (In a nice way though, im quite a sensitive person:embarrass)

I understand what you are trying to say sister. Although I don't think anyone in the UK condones 11 years olds reproducing!

Its always best to stay on point and confront the question, rather than throw back, using counter examples, and I think this question has been dealt with to death!

[amalteser]

non muslims tend to say that Aisha was too young to understand the relationship a husband and wife have and therefore say disgusting things about the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and I think these posts prove that age has nothing to do with it. How can they question the marriage of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to Aisha at the age of 9 when there are kids in this country getting pregnant at the age of 11?
If they dont have a probalem with a kid having sex at that age then they must have a problem with the age difference and I am sure we have seen many cases where there has been a huge age difference between couples yet no outcry about it.
Or have I gone totally off topic? :hiding:
Forgive me if I am not making sense or correct me if I am going on about irrelevant things. (In a nice way though, im quite a sensitive person:embarrass)

All right thinking people, view underage sex as wrong!!!

[Raphael]

All right thinking people, view underage sex as wrong!!!

Society dictates what under-age is, considering that age was set at 10 in this very country in the 16th century! So are all the people in England during the 16th century and before morally depraved according to your lovely definition? :hmm:

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Er ok. This issue has been dealt with so many times (on this very forum!) and at 5 pages, I think this one has gone on long enough.

Thread locked.