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umm junaid
10-26-2009, 10:34 PM
:sl: I keep on hearin is this person salafi or are you salafi basically everywhere i go i hear salafi, what exactly is it? :hmm:
:wa:
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nebula
10-26-2009, 10:47 PM
Salafi are people who adhere to the methodology of the Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him), the sahaba's the tabieen and the taba tabieen.

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Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, "The best of people are my generation, then those who follow after them, then those who follow after them, then there will come a people whose testimony will precede their oath and their oath will precede their testimony." Reported by Imaam Ahmad in his Musnad and also by al-Bukhaari and Muslim. And "the Salafis" (Salafiyyoon) is the plural of "Salafi", which is an ascription to the Salaf, and its meaning has already preceded. And they are the ones who traverse upon the minhaaj of the Salaf, from amongst the followers of the Book and the Sunnah, those who call to them both, and to acting upon them, as a result of which they are from Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah."


read more here
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 10:55 PM
or basically reject Taqlid (following one of the 4 imams). i suppose you get different types.
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nebula
10-26-2009, 10:58 PM
they don't reject taqleed, but they go with the stongest proofs, some people follow a madhab blindly and don't care even if a stronger proof comes to them they'll just simply say " its not frm my madhab i aint gnna follow it " this is clearly wrong... blind following

the salafi take from all four imams
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:02 PM
A dangerous game. We dont have the required knowledge to know what is Saheeh and what isnt. How do we know its the strongest opinion? It could otherwise be classed as following ones own desires.
I could go on and on, but itd just be going off-topic.
Ma3asSalaamah
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nebula
10-26-2009, 11:08 PM
^ yeah your totally right ukhte
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:10 PM
ermm...okay :hmm: :hmm:
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Insaanah
10-26-2009, 11:26 PM
The four imams sometimes had different views on different things, they were all pious and had far more knowledge than we do. None of them was wrong. Their aim was to help us understand the finer points of the Sunnah. I agree we don't know which proofs are the strongest, as they are all good, but perhaps we can look at all four imams statements and follow that which we find easiest, as the Prohet peace be upon him said "ad-deenu yusrun".
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:34 PM
dont you mean different interpretions?
again a case of following desires, not deen.
Its almost impossible to do that!!
example:say we bled a little, our wudhu would not be broken according to Imam Shafi RA, but itd be broken according to Imam Abu Hanifa RA. we decide to take the easy option so it doesnt break. later on, we (as were girls) decide to pray our salaah. Now according to Imaam Shafi, wed have to cover our feet, but according to Imam Abu Hanifa RA we wouldnt. again, we take the easy option and dont cover them.

Logic will tell you that now, according to BOTH imaams, our salaah is invalid. its very dangerous.
Deen being easy may mean do not be extreme!! as in wear yourself out with excessive Ibaadah.
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:37 PM
And please, it is never my choice to bring Ahaadith into these discussions, for then it may force me to reply with another Hadith, or even an Ayah, which is gross disrespect.
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Insaanah
10-26-2009, 11:39 PM
Ok, so if we don't look at the strongest proofs, don't follow just one imam, don't follow all four, what should we be doing? :hmm:
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Im sorry if I confused you??
The Ulama have (majorly) held the view of following one only. I understand that in recent times there has been a rise in those who dont.
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Insaanah
10-26-2009, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by aisha
Im sorry if I confused you??
The Ulama have (majorly) held the view of following one only. I understand that in recent times there has been a rise in those who dont.
Thanks sis :) My knowledge compared to all the oceans, seas and rivers in the world is not even one zillionth of a drop, as you can tell.:embarrass
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~Raindrop~
10-26-2009, 11:57 PM
That is true of all of us sis. However, we can strive to learn as much as we can for the sake of Allah SWT. Taking care it is from a reliable source....preferably one who's chain of transmission reaches the Prophet SAW himself. :):):)
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ardianto
10-27-2009, 03:54 AM
In Indonesia, Salafis are Muslims who placing their hands on chest when salaath, not on belly like other Muslims.

They also known as people who always remind other Muslims to eliminate and leave "Tachyul, Bidah and Churafat" practice.

Their biggest organization in Indonesia is 'Persatuan Islam / Persis'.
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Sampharo
10-27-2009, 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by aisha
dont you mean different interpretions?
again a case of following desires, not deen.
Its almost impossible to do that!!
example:say we bled a little, our wudhu would not be broken according to Imam Shafi RA, but itd be broken according to Imam Abu Hanifa RA. we decide to take the easy option so it doesnt break. later on, we (as were girls) decide to pray our salaah. Now according to Imaam Shafi, wed have to cover our feet, but according to Imam Abu Hanifa RA we wouldnt. again, we take the easy option and dont cover them.

Logic will tell you that now, according to BOTH imaams, our salaah is invalid. its very dangerous.
Deen being easy may mean do not be extreme!! as in wear yourself out with excessive Ibaadah.
I do not mean to raise argument about this but clarity needs to be made so as not to confuse reading muslims:

Our religion is sent complete and fullfilled from God through our prophet Mohamed -pbuh-. Any matter which is clear and textually ordered is not up for discussion and cannot be removed based on timespan or otherwise and we should stick to it as much as we can.

The madhabs are methods of studying and analysing less clear texts, and using set principals of fiqh to reach the correct view regarding something which is not clear or which there is no text for it. There aren't four madhabs but more, and there are many scholars who don't specifically stick to those madhabs. There is madhab Al-Thahery for example. The four famous ones though are famous because the students of the Imams were systematic in writing it down, so new scholars who came afterwards followed the methodologies.

Over 1400 years many of the hadiths used were studied closer and found lacking in authenticity. Others that did not have support at the time and later became strengthened. Many scholars within the four madhabs or the other madhabs adjusted, and some didn't.

To stick to one madhab means you stick a certain school of methodology, which is not prudent and does not make sense. To stick a single school original opinions even when new evidence have fortified certain hadith or weakened others and therefore shows that the original opinion is no longer valid, means that you are substituting the prophet's newly authenticated example or order, or the proven approved habit of the good companions, with that of an opinion of a scholar, which is no matter how great or knowledgable, is still fallible and is still susceptible to error of judgement, especially working from material that wasn't compiled in full at the time.

Salafis do not call for non-madhab. They call for putting priority to evidence of the prophet, and the approved actions of his companions and the two generations who follow because those three generations are by textual testament of the prophet are the best the muslim ummah will ever have. Ibn Taymeyya followed the Hanbali madhab and he is a strict Salafi for example. But if something have emerged that shows him the hanbali original madhab opinion is not correct, then he would give fatwa based on the stronger evidence.

By being Salafi does not mean that laymen follow and analyze and dig up direct evidence themselves, as a matter of fact if you go to a proper scholarly forum of a Salafi basis, they will refuse any opinion that is not dependent on what an Imam or Sheikh or madhab have said, citing that laymen analysis can be faulty and they cannot waste time refuting unknowledgables coming in with haphazard thoughts.

What muslims should do based on Salafi faith is to choose great knowledgable pious scholars, not madhabs regardless of the people speaking. To follow the scholarly opinion that comes with a solid evidence over the one without. Currently all four madhabs are actually coming together more and more as hadith's library is built bigger and bigger, for example Hanafi scholars raise their hands upon rokoo now, because all recognize the evidence of the hadith regarding raising the hands have been authenticated.

Imams of the madhabs themselves said to only follow what they say if they are on the right, if evidence emerges afterwards or it turns out their opinion was weak, they themselves said to discard the opinion and follow the stronger view and the one with evidence (Imam Ibn Hanbal: "Follow me only as long as I am on the sunnah, if it turns out I wasn't, don't follow what I said". Imam Malik: "Everyone's words can be taken or ignored in whole or in part except for that man" and he pointed at the grave of the prophet -pbuh-.)

Islam is from God, the one messenger is who we are supposed to follow. If a scholar makes a mistake, even if all people follow it, and there is one piece of evidence that is recorded, people will be responsible for not following the truth.

So as far as the prayer example you gave. The muslim should follow the stronger evidence which is that small bit of blood does not ruin the ablution or prayer, since that is the opinion of Malikis and Shafies (as well as Hanbalis who care about the amount), and the vast majority of companions like Omar, Ibn Abbas, Aisha, and Abu Huraira -RAA- based on the hadith of Anas "I saw the prophet -pbuh- make hijama then pray without repeating the ablution, and didn't add to washing the Hijama spots". While Abu Haneefa's opinion was the generalized "blood is najes". As for the feet, majority opinion is with covering the feet, considering that is the opinions again of Hanbalis, Malikis, Shafies, and Thaheris, while Jaafari and Hanafee madhabs established that it's not. The proofs are equal for both, with both opinions having valid hadith to indicate the opinion directly. Majority stick to the hadith of the prophet when he was asked if a woman in armor and Khimar can pray without an Izar (long skirt to the ground), and he answered: "she may if the feet are covered". Hanafee and Jaafari and other Imams found strong proof in Aisha's -RAA- saying that the quranic verse that says "...that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;" [24:31] included feet, and that she and the muslim women showed their feet while walking and didn't cover in prayer, also said by Ibn Abbas. In such a situation then you can choose either opinion because they're both equally evidenced and there's a split in opinion, and you can choose the easier one.

Taking easier just because it's easier is of course wrong, and is not the way of the Salaf.

May God help us all stick to the path of righteousness.
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S_87
10-27-2009, 12:45 PM
a salafi is the short term used for someone who follows the Quran and Sunnah on the manhaj of the Pious predecessors. Priority to evidence from the Quran and Sunnah is a must and anything otherwise should be rejected. Sure you may have two opinions on something but one should follow what is the strongest of evidence and not what he desires.

of course there is also the whole 'salafi cult' type thing going on which one should be aware of and not get sucked up into it
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