Need Clarification on Pre-Marital Relations

[Ribz]

Salam

I was doing some research and i came across some information that said that it is okay for Muslim men in foreign countries to have sexual relations with infidel women. This is due to the fact that infidel women are seen as *****s, and also due to the fact that since Islam is perpetually at war with other religions, they can be seen as prisoners (right hand possessed). Apparently this is also the reason for those reports of rape that you hear about of white girls in western countries by Muslim men.

Can someone please clarify and tell me if this is allowed or not? Because i do not want to do something that is haram. If that is the case then i will obey Allah and wait till marriage.

Thank you!

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

Salam

I was doing some research and i came across some information that said that it is okay for Muslim men in foreign countries to have sexual relations with infidel women....those reports of rape that you hear about of white girls in western countries by Muslim men.

Was that any Islamic site , really ? or U saw it in any anti-Islamic site ? Where in Quran it says that if u visit a foreign country , it's ok for u to rape a girl ?? Can u post the verse ?

Many ( if not most ) Muslim men and women now a days don't have courage to protest against any injustice . But look how some Muslim men are twisting holy verses to fulfill their evil desire.

Bro. if possible get married ; else keep fasting . May Allah protect you and us from all immoral acts . Ameen.

Oh and yap , Welcome to the forum.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Salam

I was doing some research and i came across some information that said that it is okay for Muslim men in foreign countries to have sexual relations with infidel women. This is due to the fact that infidel women are seen as *****s, and also due to the fact that since Islam is perpetually at war with other religions, they can be seen as prisoners (right hand possessed). Apparently this is also the reason for those reports of rape that you hear about of white girls in western countries by Muslim men.

Can someone please clarify and tell me if this is allowed or not? Because i do not want to do something that is haram. If that is the case then i will obey Allah and wait till marriage.

Thank you!

I can't believe that sort of horrible behaviour would be condoned in Islam.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Relations outside of marriage has always been forbidden and rape is a death penalty offense. No matter what religion the victim is.

Rape is rape is rape no matter who is raped. No Muslims can not and never were permitted to rape prisoner's of war.

Sheesh kabob--- where do these ridiculous ideas come from? I find it shocking to think that any person using the name of Muslim could not be repulsed by the idea some people believe they are true.

We do see non-Muslims as being human and are our brothers and sisters in humanity. They may not be on the path to Jannah but they are to be treated fairly and not abused. They are no less human than us.

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[Ramadhan]

To the OP:
Are you for real??

[Raphael]

Not quite what the OP mentioned, but there is a special type of marriage contract which is grossly abused in some parts of the Muslim world...


Definition: A misyar contract is a marriage contract where couples can live separately but get together regularly, often for sexual relations.

Although allowed in Saudi Arabia and under Sunni Islam, misyar is not popular with many who see it as legal prostitution. Women lose nearly all their rights in a misyar marriage.

Nearly 80% of misyar relationships end in divorce.


Ruling from islamqa...


Misyaar marriage was mentioned on your website. What is this marriage? Is it halaal or haraam?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Misyaar marriage is where a man does a shar’i marriage contract with a woman, meeting the conditions of marriage, but the woman gives up some of her rights such as accommodation, maintenance or the husband’s staying overnight with her.

The reasons that have led to the emergence of this kind of marriage are many, such as:

1.

Increase in the number of single women who are unable to get married, because young men are put off marriage due to the high cost of dowries and the costs of marriage, or because there is a high divorce rate. In such circumstances, some women will agree to be a second or third wife and to give up some of their rights.

2.

Some women need to stay in their family home, either because they are the only care-givers for family members, or because the woman has a handicap and her family do not want the husband to be burdened with something he cannot bear, and he stays in touch with her without having to put too great a burden on himself, or because she has children and cannot move with them to her husband’s house, and other reasons.

3.

Some married men want to keep some women chaste because they need that, or because they need variety and halaal pleasure, without that affecting the first wife and her children.

4.

In some cases a husband may want to conceal his second marriage from his first wife, for fear of the consequences that may result and affect their relationship.

5.

The man travels often to a certain place and stays there for lengthy periods. Undoubtedly staying there with a wife is safer for him than not doing so.

These are the most prominent reasons for the emergence of this kind of marriage.

Secondly:

The scholars differed concerning the ruling on this type of marriage, and there are several opinions, ranging from the view that it is permissible, to the view that it is permitted but makrooh, or that it is not allowed. Here we should point out several things.

1.

None of the scholars have said that it is invalid or is not correct; rather they disallowed it because of the consequences that adversely affect the woman, as it is demeaning to her, and that affects the society as this marriage contract is taken advantage of by bad people, because a woman could claim that a boyfriend is a husband. It also affects the children whose upbringing will be affected by their father’s absence.

2.

Some of those who said that it was permissible have retracted that view. Among the most prominent scholars who said that it was permissible were Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz and Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez Aal al-Shaykh; and among the most prominent scholars who said that it was permissible and then retracted it was Shaykh al-‘Uthaymeen; among the most prominent scholars who said that it is not allowed at all was Shaykh al-Albaani.

3.

Those who said that it is permissible did not say that a time limit should be set as in the case of mut’ah. And they did not say that it is permissible without a wali (guardian), because marriage without a wali is invalid. And they did not say that the marriage contract may be done without witnesses or without being announced, rather it is essential to do one of the two.

Thirdly:

Opinion of the scholars concerning this type of marriage:

1.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about Misyaar marriage; this kind of marriage is where the man marries a second, third or fourth wife, and the wife is in a situation that compels her to stay with her parents or one of them in her own house, and the husband goes to her at various times depending on the circumstances of both. What is the Islamic ruling on this type of marriage?

He replied:

There is nothing wrong with that if the marriage contract fulfils all the conditions set out by sharee’ah, which is the presence of the wali and the consent of both partners, and the presence of two witnesses of good character to the drawing up of the contract, and both partners being free of any impediments, because of the general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The conditions that are most deserving of being fulfilled are those by means of which intimacy becomes permissible for you” and “The Muslims are bound by their conditions.” If the partners agree that the woman will stay with her family or that her share of the husband’s time will be during the day and not during the night, or on certain days or certain nights, there is nothing wrong with that, so long as the marriage is announced and not hidden. End quote.

Fataawa ‘Ulama’ al-Balad al-Haraam (p. 450, 451) and Jareedah al-Jazeerah issue no. 8768, Monday 18 Jumaada al-Oola 1417 AH.

However, some students of the Shaykh said that he later retracted the view that it is permissible, but we could not find anything in writing to prove that.

2.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez Aal al-Shaykh (may Allaah preserve him) was asked:

There is a lot of talk about misyaar marriage being haraam or halaal. We would like a definitive statement about this matter from you, with a description of its conditions and obligations, if it is permissible.

He replied:

The conditions of marriage are that the two partners should be identified and give their consent, and there should be a wali (guardian) and two witnesses. If the conditions are met and the marriage is announced, and they do not agree to conceal it, either the husband, the wife or their guardians, and he offered a waleemah or wedding feast, then this marriage is valid, and you can call it whatever you want after that. End quote.

Jareedah al-Jazeerah, Friday 15 Rabee’ al-Thaani 1422 AH, issue no. 10508.

3.

Shaykh al-Albaani was asked about Misyaar marriage and he disallowed it for two reasons:

(i)

That the purpose of marriage is repose as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect” [al-Room 30:21]. But this is not achieved in this kind of marriage.

(ii)

It may be decreed that the husband has children with this woman, but because he is far away from her and rarely comes to her, that will be negatively reflected in his children’s upbringing and attitude.

See: Ahkaam al-Ta’addud fi Daw’ al-Kitaab wa’l-Sunnah (p. 28, 29).

4.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) used to say that it was permissible, then he stopped saying that because of the negative effects, as it was poorly applied by some wrongdoers.

Finally, what we think is:

That if Misyaar marriage fulfils the conditions of a valid marriage, namely the proposal and acceptance, the consent of the wali and witnesses or announcement of the marriage, then it is a valid marriage contract, and it is good for some categories of men and women whose circumstances call for this type of marriage. But this may be taken advantage of by some whose religious commitment is weak, hence this permissibility should not be described as general in application in a fatwa, rather the situation of each couple should be examined, and if this kind of marriage is good for them then it should be permitted, otherwise they should not be allowed to do it. That is to prevent marriage for the sake of mere pleasure whilst losing the other benefits of marriage, and to prevent the marriage of two people whose marriage we may be certain is likely to fail and in which the wife will be neglected, such as one who will be away from his wife for many months, and will leave her on her own in an apartment, watching TV and visiting chat rooms and going on the internet. How can such a weak woman spend her time? This is different from one who lives with her family or children and has enough religious commitment, obedience, chastity and modesty to help her be patient during her husband’s absence.

And Allaah knows best.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

Not quite what the OP mentioned, but there is a special type of marriage contract which is grossly abused ...

To my knowledge , Contract marriage is practised by only few Muslims mainly by Shia . This marriage concept goes against the moral teaching of Islam .

Before even getting married , two people agreed on divorce after a specific time ..it's funny and ridiculuous. Anyway , OP is asking about relationship outside marriage and raping non-Muslim women.

OP , pl. let us know who gave this fatwa that raping non-Muslim women in foreign countries is allowed.

[ardianto]

Relations outside of marriage has always been forbidden and rape is a death penalty offense. No matter what religion the victim is.

Rape is rape is rape no matter who is raped. No Muslims can not and never were permitted to rape prisoner's of war.

Punishment for Muslim who rape a prisoner's of war is stoning to death, no matter how pious this Muslim. This punishment was really executed several years ago in an island in my country.

To brother Naidamar, do you know this case ?.

[Raphael]

To my knowledge , Contract marriage is practised by only few Muslims mainly by Shia

Unfortunately this is not true, and it is simply because the vast majority of Muslims are unaware of its existence, or at least in denial.

The issue has been dealt with among scholarly circles because of its negative impacts, and can be clearly seen by the number of fatwas presented on this topic by the likes of Sheikh Uthaymeen and Sheikh Al-Albaani.

[ardianto]

Unfortunately this is not true, and it is simply because the vast majority of Muslims are unaware of its existence, or at least in denial.

Or maybe they don't know.

But, Raphael, you are wrong with "grossly", they are not too much.

[Asiyah3]

Unfortunately this is not true, and it is simply because the vast majority of Muslims are unaware of its existence, or at least in denial.

The issue has been dealt with among scholarly circles because of its negative impacts, and can be clearly seen by the number of fatwas presented on this topic by the likes of Sheikh Uthaymeen and Sheikh Al-Albaani.

Personally I think this kind of marriage isn't good at all, but the reason for my opinion is because of the bad consequences especially children like Sheikh Uthaimeen said. Otherwise it is a normal marriage except that the parties don't want to live in the same house.

Raphael, how do you know that it is grossly abused?

[ardianto]

Personally I think this kind of marriage isn't good at all, but the reason for my opinion is because of the bad consequences especially children like Sheikh Uthaimeen said. Otherwise it is a normal marriage except that the parties don't want to live in the same house.

Misyar is not a normal marriage, sister. But temporary marriage. This is a sunni version of mut'ah.

[Sampharo]

There is nothing temporary about Misyar marriage, or anything else that likens it to Shia Mutah. The garbage and misinformation that is being mentioned has been fed by sectarians to try and tag something of mainstream Islam with the same criticisms to what they have in their sects, so that when someone says "Shia have forbidden Mutah" they can confuse people by saying "it's our version of Sunni Misyar marriage".

There are over 20 items regarding Mutah that make it invalid and not marriage, most important of which:

1- It is timed by a contract as short as a day
2- It is performed without a guardian, judge, witnesses, or declaration
3- If children are conceived they are NOT given the father's name and do not get parental rights to him.
4- There is no responsibilities on either side towards each other. Men don't have to spend or take care of the woman, the woman does not have to care for or follow the man.
5- They allow mutah with prebescient children as young as 7 years old, and younger than that too without full intercourse!!!

To learn more, you'll need to go here: http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=175693 (Arabic language is required though)

Such garbage has nothing to do with Islam and Sunni Misyar marriage. Misyar marriage has EVERYTHING to do with normal marriage with the exception of one thing: the woman declines her right to being financially supported by the husband and therefore maintains a separate household. It is independent marriage, that's all. If it is temporary then it become "Marriage with intention of divorce" which was invalidated by most scholars.

As for newbie poster Ribz there: Sounds to me you took what was twisted in jewish scripture about how it is ok to have intercourse with Gentiles (non-jews) because they are a lesser breed and is not adultery, however someone noted how bad it sounded and decided to slam it on Islam on some website. Whatever you are thinking of doing as per your post is haram and dirty and any person with a clean heart and mind would instantaneously know how corrupt and illogical that is.

Wassalam

[Raphael]

Or maybe they don't know.

But, Raphael, you are wrong with "grossly", they are not too much.

That is what I said, they are unaware of its existence.

Gross misuse does not refer to the number of people who are doing it, but the abusive way that wrongdoers take something in the shariah and use it in a deviant manner.

Personally I think this kind of marriage isn't good at all, but the reason for my opinion is because of the bad consequences especially children like Sheikh Uthaimeen said. Otherwise it is a normal marriage except that the parties don't want to live in the same house.

Raphael, how do you know that it is grossly abused?

From the wisdom of Sheikh Uthaymeen's retraction, due to its poor application by wrongdoers as mentioned by Sheikh Munajjid's definitions and rulings concerning this topic.

As well as Sheikh al-Albaani's disallowing of this type of marriage:

Shaikh al-Albaani was asked about Misyaar marriage and he disallowed it for two reasons:

(i) That the purpose of marriage is repose as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And among His Signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect” [al-Room 30:21]. But this is not achieved in this kind of marriage.

(ii) It may be decreed that the husband has children with this woman, but because he is far away from her and rarely comes to her, that will be ne-gatively reflected in his children’s upbringing and attitude.

See: Ahkaam al-Ta’addud fi Daw’ al-Kitaab wa’l-Sunnah (p. 28, 29).

Please note however there is a difference in opinion regarding this topic, and many scholars have permitted it.

Misyar is not a normal marriage, sister. But temporary marriage. This is a sunni version of mut'ah.

I disagree brother, it is not a sunni version of mut'ah as pointed out by the post above, however I found the charged language of that post distasteful.

[Sampharo]

I disagree brother, it is not a sunni version of mut'ah as pointed out by the post above, however I found the charged language of that post distasteful.

Did it offend you? Remind me again then why you thought of Misyar when the OP expressed his desire to think there is permissibility for raping non-muslims? Or do you think everytime someone sweeps in nasty things off the internet claimed about our religion we should respond with flowers, even when he's shoving it in without basis and telling us "either unaware, or we are just in denial"?

Where in islamqa does it say "Definition: A misyar contract is a marriage contract where couples can live separately but get together regularly, often for sexual relations.

Although allowed in Saudi Arabia and under Sunni Islam, misyar is not popular with many who see it as legal prostitution"?

Talk about distasteful... and it's still garbage and misinformation.والله المستعان

[Raphael]

Did it offend you? Remind me again then why you thought of Misyar when the OP expressed his desire to think there is permissibility for raping non-muslims? Or do you think everytime someone sweeps in nasty things off the internet claimed about our religion we should respond with flowers, even when he's shoving it in without basis and telling us "either unaware, or we are just in denial"?

والله المستعان

It didn't offend me, I just found your signature quite ironic after reading the post.

I brought up misyar as its used quite illicitly by some, to practically use Muslim women. I thought it better to clear any misconceptions, so that anyone who may hear of this term in the future is better educated....hence unaware. As for in denial, this is in reference to some people who do not seem to think that it is misused by certain characters with weak hearts. Hence my quoting Sheikh Uthaymeen's reason for reversing his original stance.

There are many variants of questions such as the OP's, and they are all similar in nature. Since what he was saying is clearly forbidden, I was raising something that could potentially be used for error in the future. Does that upset you?

When did I say that was the definition given in islamqa? I followed a systematic order in which I gave the ruling in islamqa after I wrote "Ruling from islamqa..." What this means is, what I took from islamqa comes after the title....."Ruling from islamqa...". That does not necessarily mean what was given before is from islamqa. It does not mean the posts I write after it are from islamqa. Especially since I did not write in my post....this definition is given from islamqa, rather I wrote, "Ruling from islamqa...", followed by the ruling from islamqa!

I hope I have made it clear. If you are confused, I will be happy to give a more elaborate explanation.

[ardianto]

I disagree brother, it is not a sunni version of mut'ah as pointed out by the post above, however I found the charged language of that post distasteful.

Few months ago I discussed about shia's mut'ah in a sunni based Islamic forum. I said "There are some people from oversea who come to my country for mut'ah with local girls". And a brother replied "That is not mut'ah, but misyar, a sunni version of mut'ah".

[Woodrow]

It seems the OP was not intereted in his thread to return to see if there were any replies. No sense in carrying this any further.

:threadclo: