Qn about Obedience to husband.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
If women of the ansaar argued and debated with their husbands, doesn’t this go against the obeying your husband rule? Why/why not? Im just genuinely confused as to where the line is drawn as i have read in the past that the women of Medina used to have the upper hand in the house hold[*] but at the same time i have read that obedience to husband is important.

in the hadith of umar, radiallahu anhu, his wife just kept on arguing, but i thought she was to remain quite when he told her he didn’t like it, but she didn’t?

So What does obedience to husband mean and what does having the upper hand mean? Does having the upper hand in marriage denote disobedience to husband? What if he doesn’t like that she is boss over him, despite that Islam has allowed it? Does she still have to obey him in this respect? Do such rules fall into a heirachy. What im trying to get at is, is obeying your husband a priority, despite that being a dominant wife maybe permissible?
I would have thought that since you obey him, then basically everything he says and does, you don’t argue with him, and just nod along, even if you disagree with it. But textual evidences suggest otherwise (im liking these textual evidences :hiding:)... are there certain situations where you can go against his word, other than when he tell you to do something haraam?



Also, with the ungrateful wife hadith? Is there an explanation to it somewhere? To which type of wife does the hadith specially apply to? can a husband be blamed for his wife's disobedience in other words, if he is neglects her rights (eg her right to accommodation etc), and he turns around and tells her she is ungrateful, is that hadith still biding?
As a opposed to a wife whose husband treats her with kindness and fulfills her rights, and yet she is still ungrateful?

Basically what consists a grateful and ungrateful wife? And speaking of ungrateful, is there such thing as ungrateful husband? Maybe it isn’t directly mentioned in any hadith but rather may fall under another ruling verse, but if he was to mistreat her and/or insult her and tell her that her mothering is bad or something along those lines, is he being ungrateful towards her and consequently is there some kind of reprimand?

I hope im making sense =(


-----------------[*]

it is narrated that the women of the Sahaabah used to argue and debate with them, and indeed this is the way in which the Mothers of the Believers [i.e., the Prophet’s wives] used to act with our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “We Quraysh used to control our women, but when we came to the Ansaar we found that they were a people who were controlled by their women. So our women started to adopt the ways of the Ansaari women. I got angry with my wife and she argued with me and I did not like her arguing with me. She said, ‘Why do you object to me arguing with you? By Allaah, the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) argue with him…’” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4895; Muslim, 1479.

http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/40405/kin...t%20of%20women

[Caller الداعي]

I see ur point sis but i think that can easily be clarified if we take the whole hadith into context (full hadith down the page):

firstly obedience is not something which has fixed limits for everyone due to the difference in the temprements of poeple, societies etc.. like in the mentioned hadith the quraysh were more strict however the Ansar were more softer ibn battal says :

وقوله: « كنا نغلب النساء » يريد أن شدة المواطأة على النساء مذموم؛ لأن النبى سار بسيرة الأنصار فيهن وترك سيرة قومه قريش

'he means that severe treatment of women is condemned because the prophet followed the way of the Ansar regarding them (women).

secondly: as we see in the hadith the wives of the prophet :saws1: did answer him back sometimes, however this doesnt mean they continued doing it as can be understood from Umar's :arabic5: answer to his daughter and later to the holy prophet :saws1:

thirdly: here is a lesson for the muslim husbands from the noble character of the prophet :saws1: he would remain calm in such situations knowing the weakness of women just like he mentions in another hadith:

قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم استوصوا بالنساء فإن المرأة خلقت من ضلع وإن أعوج شيء في الضلع أعلاه فإن ذهبت تقيمه كسرته وإن تركته لم يزل أعوج فاستوصوا بالنساء

'And I advise you to take care of the women, for they are created from a rib and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part; if you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked, so I urge you to take care of the women.' (bukhari)

Imam Ibn Hajr says commentating on the hadith:

قوله : ( وإن أعوج شيء في الضلع أعلاه )
قيل فيه إشارة إلى أن أعوج ما في المرأة لسانها

'and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part: it is said that in it is an indication that the most crooked thing in a woman is her tongue'

further Imam Nawawi says :

قال النووي فيه الحث على الرفق بالنساء والإحسان إليهن والصبر على عوج أخلاقهن واحتمال ضعف عقولهن وكراهة طلاقهن بلا سبب وإنه لا مطمع في استقامتهن

'In it is encouragment to be kind to women, to treat them good, to have patience with the crookedness of their character, to bare their weak intellects, disliking of divorcing them without reason and that there is no hope in straightening them'


and remember the holy prophet said:

قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ خِيَارُكُمْ خِيَارُكُمْ لِنِسَائِهِمْ

'the best of you are those who are best in conduct with their wives'

conclusion: obedience is according to the norm of a society (and no i dont mean going clubing and partying) depending on what the muslims of a society see as disobedience. Also the hadith in its full context clarifies the situation of the wives of the prophet :saws1: . Finallay the best way for us is to follow the way of the prophet :saws1: in his noble character.

Hadith in its full context:

[[From Bukhari]] 7.119: Narrated Ibn `Abbas : I had been eager to ask `Umar bin Al-Khattab about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said 'If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah, your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes). (66.4) till `Umar performed the Hajj and I too, performed the Hajj along with him. (On the way) `Umar went aside to answer the call of nature, and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler full of water, and when `Umar had finished answering the call of nature, I poured water over his hands and he performed the ablution. Then I said to him, "O chief of the Believers! Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said: 'If you two (wives of the Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes)?" (66.4) He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn `Abbas. They were `Aisha and Hafsa." Then `Umar went on narrating the Hadith and said, "I and an Ansari neighbor of mine from Bani Umaiyya bin Zaid who used to live in `Awali-al-Medina, used to visit the Prophet in turn. He used to go one day and I another day. When I went, I would bring him the news of what had happened that day regarding the Divine Inspiration and other things, and when he went, he used to do the same for me. We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our wives, but when we came to the Ansar, we found that their women had the upper hand over their men, so our women also started learning the ways of the Ansari women. I shouted at my wife and she retorted against me and I disliked that she should answer me back. She said to me, 'Why are you so surprised at my answering you back? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet answer him back and some of them may leave (does not speak to) him throughout the day till the night.' The (talk) scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever has done so will be ruined!' Then I proceeded after dressing myself, and entered upon Hafsa and said to her, 'Does anyone of you keep the Prophet angry till night?' She said, 'Yes.' I said, 'You are a ruined losing person! Don't you fear that Allah may get angry for the anger of Allah's Apostle and thus you will be ruined? So do not ask more from the Prophet and do not answer him back and do not give up talking to him. Ask me whatever you need and do not be tempted to imitate your neighbor (i.e., `Aisha) in her manners for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet ." `Umar added,"At that time a talk was circulating among us that (the tribe of) Ghassan were preparing their horses to invade us. My Ansari companion, on the day of his turn, went (to the town) and returned to us at night and knocked at my door violently and asked if I was there. I became horrified and came out to him. He said, 'Today a great thing has happened.' I asked, 'What is it? Have (the people of) Ghassan come?' He said, 'No, but (What has happened) is greater and more horrifying than that: Allah's Apostle; has divorced his wives. `Umar added, "The Prophet kept away from his wives and I said "Hafsa is a ruined loser.' I had already thought that most probably this (divorce) would happen in the near future. So I dressed myself and offered the morning prayer with the Prophet and then the Prophet; entered an upper room and stayed there in seclusion. I entered upon Hafsa and saw her weeping. I asked, 'What makes you weep? Did I not warn you about that? Did the Prophet divorce you all?' She said, 'I do not know. There he is retired alone in the upper room.' I came out and sat near the pulpit and saw a group of people sitting around it and some of them were weeping. I sat with them for a while but could not endure the situation, so I went to the upper room where the Prophet; was and said to a black slave of his, 'Will you get the permission (of the Prophet ) for `Umar (to enter)?' The slave went in, talked to the Prophet about it and then returned saying, 'I have spoken to the Prophet and mentioned you but he kept quiet.' Then I returned and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit. but I could not bear the situation and once again I said to the slave, 'Will you get the permission for `Umar?' He went in and returned saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' So I returned again and sat with the group of people sitting near the pulpit, but I could not bear the situation, and so I went to the slave and said, 'Will you get the permission for `Umar?' He went in and returned to me saying, 'I mentioned you to him but he kept quiet.' When I was leaving, behold! The slave called me, saying, 'The Prophet has given you permission.' Then I entered upon Allah's Apostle and saw him Lying on a bed made of stalks of date palm leaves and there was no bedding between it and him. The stalks left marks on his side and he was leaning on a leather pillow stuffed with date-palm fires. I greeted him and while still standing I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you divorced your wives?' He looked at me and said, 'No.' I said, 'Allah Akbar!' And then, while still standing, I said chatting, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? We, the people of Quraish used to have power over our women, but when we arrived at Medina we found that the men (here) were overpowered by their women.' The Prophet smiled and then I said to him, 'Will you heed what I say, O Allah's Apostle? I entered upon Hafsa and said to her, "Do not be tempted to imitate your companion (`Aisha), for she is more charming than you and more beloved to the Prophet.' " The Prophet smiled for a second time. When I saw him smiling, I sat down. Then I looked around his house, and by Allah, I could not see anything of importance in his house except three hides, so I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Invoke Allah to make your followers rich, for the Persians and the Romans have been made prosperous and they have been given (the pleasures of the world), although they do not worship Allah.' Thereupon the Prophet sat up as he was reclining. and said, 'Are you of such an opinion, O the son of Al-Khattab? These are the people who have received the rewards for their good deeds in this world.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Ask Allah to forgive me.' Then the Prophet kept away from his wives for twenty-nine days because of the story which Hafsa had disclosed to `Aisha. The Prophet had said, 'I will not enter upon them (my wives) for one month,' because of his anger towards them, when Allah had admonished him. So, when twenty nine days had passed, the Prophet first entered upon `Aisha. `Aisha said to him, 'O Allah's Apostle! You had sworn that you would not enter upon us for one month, but now only twenty-nine days have passed, for I have been counting them one by one.' The Prophet said, 'The (present) month is of twenty nine days.' `Aisha added, 'Then Allah revealed the Verses of the option. (2) And out of all his-wives he asked me first, and I chose him.' Then he gave option to his other wives and they said what `Aisha had said . " (1) The Prophet, ' had decided to abstain from eating a certain kind of food because of a certain event, so Allah blamed him for doing so. Some of his wives were the cause of him taking that decision, therefore he deserted them for one month. See Qur'an: (66.4) [[

[mammyluty]

salam sis
here is how i can explain.example,lets say u want to go to a wedding for ur cousin n the husband says no,n he gives u a reason that there will be free mixing in dat wed,but u refute him by saying there will be no free mixing btw males n females which u r not sure of it bcos u jst want to go to the wed,so at the end u decide to go.now these is disobidience to the husband.because u r not supposed to argue wth it.

another example is ur husband suggests dat u wear niqab n u tell him that its not obligatory to wear niqab n u show evidence wear its written dat husband should not force there wives to wear niqabs,n u decide not wear niqab.this is not disobedience its a mutual agreement which needs both voices,the husbsnd n the wife.

another thing i know the husband is de head of the house n the wife should be his supporter in wisdom.meaning the husband should seek his wife advise or opinion n should strongly consider it.sister this is just my opinion i culd b wrong or right.