The Importance of Facial Hair

[Rabi Mansur]

:sl:

I was just wondering about the importance of facial hair for men. Can a man revert to Islam but not grow facial hair? I've noticed that some people put a lot of emphasis on this while others don't seem to care as much. Some men grow long facial hair on their chin but shave their mustache, others let it all grow. I've seen some just grow the goute'.

So what is the deal with facial hair? Does it matter? To me, it makes you look old if you have facial hair and not necessarily better. Some people look better with it, others don't.

Should it matter at all to a new revert?

:wa:

[alcurad]

it's not as important as make it to be, all the ahaadeth that speak of it either give reasons such as 'not looking like the Jwes/Christians/Magans' etc, or speak of cutting the mustache and keeping the beard in the same tone, with no indication that either is more important than the other, thus the people who tell others to keep a beard and stop shaving it since it's a 'sin' should always tell others to also cut their mustaches since it's a sin not to cut it.

examples:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Trim closely the moustache, and grow the beard, and thus act against the fire-worshippers.
Muslim:Book 002, Hadith Number 0502

and:
Ibn Umar said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard.
Muslim:Book 002, Hadith Number 0500.

where is there any indication whatsoever that cutting the mustache is not as important as keeping the beard? why is it then that all of them allow for the mustache to grow yet disallow cutting/shaving the beard? this is what is called a logical contradiction.

the ruling is simple, it is sunnah, hence one is free to do it or not to.

[Hayaa]

:sl:

What is the ruling on shaving the beard or removing part of it?

Praise be to Allaah.

Shaving the beard is haraam because of the saheeh ahaadeeth that clearly state this, and because of the general application of texts that forbid resembling the kuffaar. One of these reports is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar who said that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Be different from the mushrikeen: let your beards grow and trim your moustaches.” According to another report: “Trim your moustaches and let your beards grow.” There are other hadeeth which convey the same meaning, which is to leave the beard as it is and let it grow long, without shaving, plucking or cutting any part of it. Ibn Hazm reported that there was scholarly consensus that it is an obligation (fard) to trim the moustache and let the beard grow. He quoted a number of ahaadeeth as evidence, including the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not remove any of his moustache is not one of us.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). Ibn Hazm said in al-Furoo’: “This is the way of our colleagues [i.e., the Hanbalis].”

Is it haraam (to shave it)? Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The Qur’aan, Sunnah and ijmaa’ (scholarly consensus) all indicate that we must differ from the kuffaar in all aspects and not imitate them, because imitating them on the outside will make us imitate them in their bad deeds and habits, and even in beliefs, which will result in befriending them in our hearts, just as loving them in our hearts will lead to imitating them on the outside. Al-Tirmidhi reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “He is not one of us who imitates people other than us. Do not imitate the Jews and Christians.” According to another version: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad) ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab rejected the testimony of the person who plucked his beard. Imaam Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Tamheed: “It is forbidden to shave the beard, and no one does this except men who are effeminate” i.e., those who imitate women. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had a thick beard (reported by Muslim from Jaabir). It is not permitted to remove any part of the beard because of the general meaning of the texts which forbid doing so.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/133

Source: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/1189/growing%20a%20beard

[Sampharo]

While most of brother alcurad's post is correct, the last statement of "the ruling is simple, it is sunnah, hence one is free to do it or not to" is ignorant and categorically false.

Orders of the prophet classed as Wajeb are to be carried out: Doing them earns a good deed, abandoning them is a recorded sin. Shaving the beard is classed as Haraam and a sin in all four schools of Sunni methodology and outside the schools as well. It is complete consensus.

When you ask is it "necessary" to grow it and maintain it, it depends on how you wish to regard the word "necessary": Would shaving the beard take a person out of the fold of Islam? The flat answer is no it doesn't. It is however a sin, and an arrogant one at that in my opinion because you really have to bug yourself in order to do it (it's not like desire of a woman or some other sin of weak will, it is fundamental effort to shave everyday and endure the hassle and cuts, disobeying the prophet -pbuh- to faintly look what one thinks is slightly more groomed in a western sense). I told brothers before: "Every morning you actually expend the effort of standing in front of the mirror, and imagine saying to the prophet "we know you said not to shave it, but HERE!!" as you place that razor and bring it down your cheek in order to have a "close smooth" touch and a "clean" look. So who is more important to you if even impressing those who don't care took priority over arrogantly disobeying the prophet?!" That usually works well. :)

The appropriate way is to grow the beard in all, grooming it and combing it and cleaning it but not shortening it, while the moustache (defined as facial hair that arcs on the top lip to the sides of the mouth) needs to be cut short and not have a body of its own that extends beyond the sides of the mouth. Hanafi and Hanbali schools of old held the view that shaving is even better, while Malik and Shafie maintained that complete total shaving is makrooh, but shortening it greatly is the required directive.

Evidence showed that based on companions actions and another hadith where the prophet cut the moustache with scissors until the lips showed only, and that Omar Ibn Al-Khattab used to pull and twirl the short hairs of his moustache, and that no companion was reported to have shaved the moustache completely, that the views of Maliki and Shafie were more evidenced. Hanbali and Hanafi evidence was sticking to text of the order hadith and making measurement to say that shaving is the closest "trimming". Most Salafi scholars agree that short moustache is the Sunnah that we abide by.

Because of this difference in opinions though you find some people shave the moustache and some leave it short, but it is complete consensus to let the beard grow. Goute is not Islamic at all and actually specifically forbidden to form shapes on the face or head by shaving patches and not others.

And God knows Best

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[Chuck]

What is a lion without his mane? But beard is the half part, moustache needs be shaven clean or it is missing the sunnah.

Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not remove any of his moustache is not one of us.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi)

[Sampharo]

What is a lion without his mane? But beard is the half part, moustache needs be shaven clean or it is missing the sunnah.

<b>

Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) quoted above, and the hadeeth of Zayd ibn Arqam in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does not remove any of his moustache is not one of us.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi)

</b>

Brother if you examine evidence in depth and check with the correct sources of jurisprudence they will tell you that the hadiths never said shaving, just trimming, and that many more authenticated hadiths showed that companions and the prophet trimmed moustache hair (the meaning of "remove any").

It is true that according to the analysis methodology of one school (and some of the Hanafi) they still believe that shaving is better, while Malik, Shafie, and other Hanafi along with other scholars believe that shaving is not right and close trimming is proven.

However no scholar or madhab ever said that unless the moustache is clean shaven then sunnah is missing. Just a note.

[Rabi Mansur]

:sl:

Because of this difference in opinions though you find some people shave the moustache and some leave it short, but it is complete consensus to let the beard grow. Goute is not Islamic at all and actually specifically forbidden to form shapes on the face or head by shaving patches and not others.

Now I am really confused. So Hamza Yusuf, my favorite Islamic scholar, is wearing a forbidden form of facial hair? He has a goute' and is a top Sheik here in the USA. Someone with all of his training and knowledge and love for Islam and the prophet is doing something that is forbidden?

I really am having a hard time believing that something like this could constitute a "sin." I understand that some may want to emulate the prophet and that the prophet may have provided his opinion about certain things, but to say that it is a sin to shave your facial hair or wear a goute' is hard for me to swallow.

This is thoroughly confusing to me. :muddlehea

:wa:

[Salahudeen]

Position of the Scholars
All the ‘ulama’ (scholars) of as-Salaf us-Salih (the Righteous early Muslims),
including the Four Imams, agree that shaving the beard is haram
(prohibited). They consider shaving it an impermissible mutilation, as has
been reported from Umar Bin Abdul Aziz- [At-Tarikh by Ibn Asakir]. They
considered the man who shaved his beard effeminate. Many of them would
not accept his testimony or allow him to lead the prayers.

CONTEMPORARY SCHOLARS
The great scholars of our time have expressed that it is prohibited to shave
the beard or cut it short. Among those are Ali Mahfuz, Muhammad Nasir
ud-Din al-Albani, Abd ul-Aziz Bin Baz, al-Kandahlawi, Abu Bakr al-Jaza’iri,
Ismail al-Ansari, and many others.


WRONGS OF SHAVING THE BEARD
Shaving the beard results in a series of Islamic violations, among which are
the following:

1. Disobedience to Allah
Shaving the beard is an act of disobedience to Allah, as is expressed in the
words of His Messenger !,
Abu Hurayrah " reported that the ruler of Yemen,
appointed by the Persian emperor Kisra, sent two envoys
to the Messenger !. When they came into his presence,
he noticed that they had shaved their beards and let
their moustaches grow big. Hating their ugly appearance,
he turned his face away and said,
“Woe be to you, who told you to do so?” They replied:
“Our lord (Kisra) did!”
The Messenger ! responded: “But my Lord, exalted and
glorified be He, has commanded me to spare my beard
and trim my moustaches.” [Recorded by Ibn Jarir at-Tabari, Ibn
Sa’d, and Ibn Bishran. Verified to be hasan (good) by al-Albani (Fiqh
us-Sirah by al-Ghazali p. 359)]

2. Disobedience to the Messenger
Shaving the beard is an act of disobedience to the Messenger ! who
commanded the men to spare their beards in many hadiths. Ibn Umar (may
Allah be pleased with them) reported that Allah's Messenger ! said:
“Closely trim the moustaches, and spare the beard.”
[Al-Bukhari, Muslim and others].
Obeying the Messenger ! is equivalent to obeying Allah:

“He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah; and
as for those who turn away: We have not sent you as a
guardian over them.” [An-Nisa 4:80


3. Deviation from the Guidance of the Messenger
There is no doubt that Allah’s Messenger ! is the best example of a man, both
in his appearance and actions.
Allah says:
“There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of
Allah an excellent pattern - for anyone whose hope is
in Allah and the Last Day, and who remembers Allah
often.” [An-Nisa' 4:80]
And Jabir " reported that Allah's Messenger ! said:
“Verily, the best guidance is Muhammad's guidance.”
[Recorded by Muslim].
Jabir Bin Samurah " reported that Allah's Messenger ! had a large beard
[Recorded by Muslim]. Shaving the beard clearly exhibits a deviation from his
appearance and guidance.

4. Deviation from the Way of Believers
One must strive to follow the ways of the believers and identify with them.
This is an obligation expressed by Allah:
“Whoever opposes the Messenger, after guidance has
become clear to him, and follows other than the way
of the ‘Believers’, We will give him what he has
chosen and let him into Hell: What an evil
destination!” [an-Nisa 4:115]
Note: The description ‘Believers’ in the ayah applies first and foremost to the
Sahabah [the Prophet's companions-May Allah be pleased with them all]
All of the prophets (alaihis-salaam), the Sahabah (the Prophet's
companions), the great ‘ulama’, and the righteous Salaf (early Muslims) of
this Ummah (Nation) grew their beards. There is no report of a single one of
them selectively shaving his beard. -For example, Allah tells us that Harun
(alaihis-salaam) addressed his brother Musa (alaihis-salaam) as follows:
He said, “O son of my mother! Do not hold me by my
beard or head.” [Ta-Ha 20:94]
Furthermore, there are authentic reports indicating that the Rightly Guided
Successors, as well as other sahabah and tabi'un had large beards. Abu Bakr
" had a thick beard [Qut ul-Qulub 4:9], Umar " had a big beard [Al-Isabah
2:511], Uthman had a large beard [Al-Isabah 2:455], and Ali's beard was so wide
as to span the distance between his shoulders [At-Tabaqat (3:25) by Ibn Sa’d],
Therefore, shaving the beard exhibits a clear deviation from the way of the
believers.

6. Changing Allah's Creation Without Permission
Except for cases that are expressly indicated in Islam, it is prohibited to
change the way that Allah has created things. Changing Allah's creation
without permission involves obeying Satan who, as Allah tells us, had said:
“They actually call upon none but rebellious Satan,
whom Allah has cursed. And he had said (to Allah), “I
will surely take from among Your servants a specific
portion. I will mislead them, give them false
promises, command them so they will slit the ears of
cattle, and command them so they will change the
creation of Allah.” Certainly, whoever takes Satan as
an ally instead of Allah is in tremendous loss.” [an-Nisa
4:117~119]
Allah has honored the human beings and fashioned them in the best form:
“Verily, We have created the human being in the best
of stature.” [At-Tin 95:4]
Changing this without permission is indeed an act of great atrocity and
deviation that deserves punishment.
The Messenger ! has declared that the women who change what Allah has
created (such as removing their facial hair, wearing wigs, filing their teeth, or
tattooing their bodies) seeking by that to improve their appearance, are
accursed by Allah.
Ibn Mas'ud " reported that Allah's Messenger ! said:
“Allah curses those (women) who tattoo (for others) and
those who get tattoos, those who pluck the facial hair
(for others) and those who have their facial hair
plucked, those who connect their hair with other (fake)
hair, and those who file their teeth for beauty - they
all change Allah's creation.” [al-Bukhari and Muslim]
This hadith mentions women in particular because they normally seek to
beautify themselves more than men. But the warning applies to both genders,
because the condition for the curse is declared: changing Allah's creation.
Thus the curse applies to anyone who satisfies such condition.
Shaving the beard falls under this warning, as it is much worse than ‘nams’
- (removal of facial hair) practiced by some women.


At-Tahanawi said:
“It is established that changing Allah's creation is a
cause for the curse, and that whatever Allah's
Messenger ! prohibits is prohibited by Allah.” [Bayan ul-
Quran]
Waliyy Ullah ad-Dahlawi said:
“Cutting it is the way of the Magians, and involves
changing Allah's creation.” [Bayan ul-Quran]


7. Imitation of Women
The beard presents a major distinction between men and women. Shaving it
removes this distinction, and is thus a means of imitating women. Any act
that involves imitation of the opposite gender makes a person liable for the
curse of Allah and His Messenger !. Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them),
reported:
“Allah's Messenger ! has cursed the men who imitate
the women; and the women who imitate the men.”
[Recorded by al-Bukhari and others].
Al-Kandahlawi said:
“No one can have doubt that complete imitation of
women arises from shaving the beard. This imitation is
stronger than that of imitating their clothing and other
matters, because the beard is the foremost and
greatest distinction between men and women. This is
possible to observe by all people, and is not denied
except by one who wants to deceive himself, follow his
whims, and be effeminate after Allah has favored him
with the good appearance of a man.” [Wujub i’fa il-Lihyah
31-32].
8. Contradicting the Pure Fitrah
The Messenger ! indicates that a child is born with a pure nature, which may
subsequently be blurred by self-indulgence or unfavorable environmental
influence. Abu Hurayrah and al-Aswad Bin Sari reported that Allah's
Messenger ! said:


“Every child is born with the pure fitrah (nature) - until
he becomes able to express himself. It is his parents
who then turn him into a Jew, a Christian, a Magian, or
a pagan.” [al-Bukhari and Muslim]
Furthermore, Allah's Messenger ! mentioned ten qualities as indicative of a
good, clean nature. Two of these qualities are to trim the moustaches and to
grow the beard.
A’ishah " reported that Allah's Messenger ! said:
“There are ten qualities of fitrah: trimming the
mustaches, sparing the beard, siwak (brushing the
teeth), inhaling water (to clean the nose) [and rinsing the
mouth], cutting the nails, washing the finger knuckles,
plucking the armpit hair, shaving the pubic hair, washing
the private parts with water, [and circumcision].” [Muslim,
Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Ibn Abi Shaybah, and others. The part between
square brackets is not in Muslim (Sahah ul-Jami `no. 2222)]
This fitrah never changes with time: Allah says:
“The pure nature according to which Allah has
created the people. There is no change in Allah's
creation.” [ar-Rum 30:30]
In the footsteps of the disbelievers, many Muslims fitrah is now very
deformed. They find a clean-shaven man more handsome and masculine than
one with a beard - exactly the opposite to what the Messenger ! declared in
the above hadith!

9. Ridiculing the Din
With the deformed fitrah that many contemporary Muslims have, they
approve of the ways of the disbelievers and disapprove of the guidance of
Allah's Messenger !! They adorn themselves with closely shaved beards, and
are ashamed of attending important functions or meetings with even a slight
beard. They admire the shiny look of a clean shaved man, and congratulate
one who just had a nice shave! They command their relatives, children, and
subordinates to shave their beards, declaring that the beard is a sign of being
messy, backward, and lazy! They ridicule the beard and anyone who grows it!
By doing this, they redicule an established part of the religion of Islam,
which is a major sin. If they do not know that, they are most ignorant about

their din, and if they do it knowingly, they could fall into a definite act of kufr
(disbelief) - in Allah we seek refuge.


A Mere Sunnah?
One frequently hears the excuse, "But it is only a sunnah!" In their
understanding, growing the beard is an optional sunnah at best! From the
previous discussion, it is obvious that this is a wrong understanding, and
there is no doubt that growing it is a mandatory sunnah.


I'm really sorry for the long post but the above is from a book that I have called The "Beard - Muhammad al-Jibaly". If you want I can email it to you the book contains more information but I didn't post it all.

also check out this vid by murtaza khan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQh45hH3RE0


grow your beard bro, inshallah I'm going to grow mine after this saturday.

[Chuck]

Brother if you examine evidence in depth and check with the correct sources of jurisprudence they will tell you that the hadiths never said shaving, just trimming, and that many more authenticated hadiths showed that companions and the prophet trimmed moustache hair (the meaning of "remove any").

It is true that according to the analysis methodology of one school (and some of the Hanafi) they still believe that shaving is better, while Malik, Shafie, and other Hanafi along with other scholars believe that shaving is not right and close trimming is proven.

However no scholar or madhab ever said that unless the moustache is clean shaven then sunnah is missing. Just a note.

I meant removing mustache, there was no shaving back then. Removing mustache and keeping the beard is the sunnah, do people now pick and choose sunnah? :raging:

[Chuck]

:sl:



Now I am really confused. So Hamza Yusuf, my favorite Islamic scholar, is wearing a forbidden form of facial hair? He has a goute' and is a top Sheik here in the USA. Someone with all of his training and knowledge and love for Islam and the prophet is doing something that is forbidden?

I really am having a hard time believing that something like this could constitute a "sin." I understand that some may want to emulate the prophet and that the prophet may have provided his opinion about certain things, but to say that it is a sin to shave your facial hair or wear a goute' is hard for me to swallow.

This is thoroughly confusing to me. :muddlehea

:wa:

Hamza Yusuf can't grow full beard, it is not something he does on purpose.

[Sampharo]

I meant removing mustache, there was no shaving back then. Removing mustache and keeping the beard is the sunnah, do people now pick and choose sunnah? :raging:

Yes there was shaving back then, brother. As hadiths specifically describe that pubic hair is to be shaven "حلق العانة", and many muslims shaved their heads to come out of hajj. Don't get frustrated brother, I am just trying to adjust the misunderstanding you got. It may have been from reading the subject over quickly or from an unreliable source or because it was not well translated to English (There is no "remove" in the Arabic hadiths, it was always "take from" which means cut a part of the hair.)

Now I am really confused. So Hamza Yusuf, my favorite Islamic scholar, is wearing a forbidden form of facial hair? He has a goute' and is a top Sheik here in the USA. Someone with all of his training and knowledge and love for Islam and the prophet is doing something that is forbidden?

There is a difference between scholar (AAlim) and caller (Da'eya). Second is someone who has basic knowledge and excellent public speaking and explanation skills so he spends his time making Da'waa. Hamza Yusuf's studying background although commendable and admirable, is not of Sheikh or AAlim level. Though I am not trying to undermine or criticise brother Hamza, I highly doubt this "top Sheik here in the USA" description, as the Sheikhs of ISNA council individually have decades of dedicated education and research and Fiqh PhD's from proper Islamic Universities.

But then again, that is a question he needs to answer for himself.

I really am having a hard time believing that something like this could constitute a "sin." I understand that some may want to emulate the prophet and that the prophet may have provided his opinion about certain things, but to say that it is a sin to shave your facial hair or wear a goute' is hard for me to swallow.

Emulating the prophet is something else, and some people like to do that such as eating with hands and licking the fingers and some people wanting to wear old Arab clothes. Beard however is a stated order and classed as obligation. Ignoring it is a sin by consensus brother as stated several times here, and there is little room for conjecture on the matter.

[Chuck]

Yes there was shaving back then, brother. As hadiths specifically describe that pubic hair is to be shaven "حلق العانة", and many muslims shaved their heads to come out of hajj. Don't get frustrated brother, I am just trying to adjust the misunderstanding you got. It may have been from reading the subject over quickly or from an unreliable source or because it was not well translated to English (There is no "remove" in the Arabic hadiths, it was always "take from" which means cut a part of the hair.)

Ok trimming. Now that is cleared, it is sunnah. Keeping a bread with mustache is not properly following the sunnah. There is no pick and choose, ignore the sunnah about the mustache and keep the sunnah about beard.

[Chuck]

How did people used to shave before the invention of razor?

[Sampharo]

Ever since there were swords, there were knives, needles and razors, made by blacksmiths. Their razors were not Gillette disposables of course :) but were effective sharp-edged shivs موسي, and along with swords and hunting knives, it was not difficult to hammer and grind them against revolving stones to an edge sharp enough to cut through muscle, tendon, bone, and a few hairs as well.

[Rabi Mansur]

It is however a sin, and an arrogant one at that in my opinion because you really have to bug yourself in order to do it (it's not like desire of a woman or some other sin of weak will, it is fundamental effort to shave everyday and endure the hassle and cuts, disobeying the prophet -pbuh- to faintly look what one thinks is slightly more groomed in a western sense).

For me, when I have a beard, it is more hassle keeping it looking decent than shaving. And you still have to shave or trim the upper lip. It is actually no effort at all to shave every day. With a beard I tend to develop itching and a rash on my face after a few weeks. It is a real hassle for me when I have a beard.

Is there any place in the Quran where it explicitly states shaving is a sin?

[Chuck]

Ever since there were swords, there were knives, needles and razors, made by blacksmiths.... but were effective sharp-edged shivs موسي, and along with swords and hunting knives, it was not difficult to hammer and grind them against revolving stones to an edge sharp enough to cut through muscle, tendon, bone, and a few hairs as well.

That must be painful. Muscle is easier to cut, but hairs are completely different story and assuming you don't want to inflict pain and lacerations. Even plucking with two shells was less harmful then those prehistoric shavers. I guess that was the reason shaving didn't became common until the invention of razor.

[Woodrow]

I think we are putting more emphasis on Shaving and not-shaving then we are placing on being Muslim.

Simple facts:

Because of genetics not all men have facial hair. Facial hair differs among people. People of Oriental heritage have sparse facial hair. Growing a full beard is a moot point. An Oriental person is going to be limited to having just a goatee. So for them a goatee is a full beard. Typically those of us who are part Oriental usually have no facial hair except a small scraggly mustache. So for us we usually will not have a beard and to stay sunnah we keep our scraggly Fu-Manchu mustaches trimmed. Myself I have a full beard which I consider a miracle as I never had any facial hair except for my sick caterpillar mustache. For some reason (I believe a Miracle) after I reverted to Islam on my first Ramadan a full beard grew. Which will never be trimmed. Nobody comes close to my beard with scissors or a razor, unless they want their arm ripped off. Some people because of genetics have beautiful full flowing beards. The people of Semitic(Arab) heritage seem to have the best beards.

So our choice is to beard will be based on 2 things genetics and our desire to follow sunnah as best as we can. Do not condemn a Muslim who has no beard or simply a goatee, it may not be by choice, but the closest to sunnah the person can be.

[Abdul Qadir]

Its haraam to shave from what i know, and even the moustache, we can only trim it close..not shave it..What i do is to use a hair trimmer and level my beard and moustache...i will not shave as the prophet SAW's instruction is to let the beard flow..so the least i could do is to maintain the thin layer of facial hair on my face..and i will wanna grow beard until its a fistful when i move over to middle-east to work insyallah..Alhamdulillah..i have a good genetic(indian) and my beard is thick and beautiful..can't wait to let it flow...insyallah...

[Sampharo]

Is there any place in the Quran where it explicitly states shaving is a sin?

Quran says to obey the prophet's commands, and it was authenticated by research and documentation that he commanded and enforced along with the companions a beard.

Imam Malik -RA- confirmed that those without a beard were not accepted as witnesses in any judge's quarters in the days of the Guided Khalifas, quite a dishonour on a muslim to be invalid as a witness, it also means that they are not accepted into Islamic schools to study Islam, nor would be used in a hadith narration chain.

It is forbidden by consensus of scholars to think of taking only what is written in Quran, and is considered negation of the prophet and therefore kufr. There is a deviant sect called Quraaneyyeen, they only follow what is in the quran and refuse hadiths as not required. They are pronounced as outside the fold of Islam, as they do crazy things like pray 3 times a day (the three prayers of the day mentioned by name in the Quran), don't pay proper zakat, etc.

I didn't mean anything and wasn't attacking you. I just wanted to alert you to what kind of misguided places this type of thinking can lead to.

People of Oriental heritage have sparse facial hair. Growing a full beard is a moot point. An Oriental person is going to be limited to having just a goatee. So for them a goatee is a full beard.

Just to make it clear, a goatee "by choice" is what seems to be the choice of brother Hamza Yusuf in his pictures, as in it shows he is shaving the rest of his beard. That is not ok even if the rest of his beard is weak and looks unattractive if he lets it go. Additionally his goatee appears to be trimmed and not left to grow to at least a fist's length, so the brothers here need to be aware as well that that is as well not the Sunnah, and that a muslim should leave his beard to grow at least to a fist before taking from it and making it balanced.

Again this is not an attack on the brother especially that he is a popular caller to the religion of God, but I am saying this here because right and wrong should be taken from Islamic text and example of the prophet and companions over the behaviour of fallible human beings.

On the other hand seeing asians here in Malaysia, I know though what you mean by limited beard (as the picture below shows. This is by the way is one of my teachers, Sheikh Hussein Ye of Malaysia, a great scholar on the path of Assunnah Wal-JamaAAa here in Malaysia who spent 40 years studying Quran, Hadith, Fiqh, and Usool Al-din in full in Arabian Islamic universities and centers). They get this limited patch of hair on the chin and that's it. If that is what God gives them, of course then that is what they grow, but grow it freely and not trim it to at least a fist as Ibn Omar.

The people of Semitic(Arab) heritage seem to have the best beards.

Subhanallah, the grass is always greener on the other side! :D If you're talking about the bushy inverted go-crazy afro I have on my chin, you're welcome to it. From my side I think a levantian (syria/Jordan/Lebanon/Palestine) beard looks great.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

This is an interesting topic and it's helping me to understand how Muslims follow the Sunnah. It's very confusing, but then I suppose attempting to imitate a man's life inevitably leads to various confusions arising.

In squiggle's post from yesterday, one of the reasons given for not shaving the beard was to avoid changing Allah's creation. Trimming the moustache would seem to fall into that category, though. Is the sin of changing Allah's creation overridden by the fact that the order to trim the moustache is in the message of the Prophet (pbuh)?

Peace

[Sampharo]

In squiggle's post from yesterday, one of the reasons given for not shaving the beard was to avoid changing Allah's creation. Trimming the moustache would seem to fall into that category, though. Is the sin of changing Allah's creation overridden by the fact that the order to trim the moustache is in the message of the Prophet (pbuh)?

The post specifically said changing Allah's creation without permission, not just changing Allah's creation. Circumcision, clearing the armpits of hair, and trimming the moustache are not only permitted, but ordered and therefore obligated. When we are obligated to leave the beard to grow and trim the moustache, we comply. There is no contradiction.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The post specifically said changing Allah's creation without permission, not just changing Allah's creation. Circumcision, clearing the armpits of hair, and trimming the moustache are not only permitted, but ordered and therefore obligated. When we are obligated to leave the beard to grow and trim the moustache, we comply. There is no contradiction.

So the answer is yes. Fair enough - thanks for clarifying. :)

Peace

[Uthman]

Brother Sampharo, you are a student of Hussain Yee?! Wow! I didn't know that. :D

I've watched several of his programmes and conference speeches on Peace TV. Mashaa'Allah he is a very peaceful and humble man. May Allah bless him.

[Woodrow]

Greetings,

This is an interesting topic and it's helping me to understand how Muslims follow the Sunnah. It's very confusing, but then I suppose attempting to imitate a man's life inevitably leads to various confusions arising.

In squiggle's post from yesterday, one of the reasons given for not shaving the beard was to avoid changing Allah's creation. Trimming the moustache would seem to fall into that category, though. Is the sin of changing Allah's creation overridden by the fact that the order to trim the moustache is in the message of the Prophet (pbuh)?

Peace

Here we can get into splitting hairs over definitions and concepts of what is sinful, mahkrouf, haraam, halal, sunnah and fiqh. "Changing Allah's Creation" can be any one of those based upon the intent and reason for doing so. For example plucking one's eyelashes to be attractive to members of the opposite gender would be a sin. Doing so for health purposes would be halal. Trimming the mustache for the purpose of being sunnah would be at least halal and very probably fiqh. To trim it to attract women would be haram.

[Muezzin]

That must be painful. Muscle is easier to cut, but hairs are completely different story and assuming you don't want to inflict pain and lacerations. Even plucking with two shells was less harmful then those prehistoric shavers. I guess that was the reason shaving didn't became common until the invention of razor.

Razors have been around as long as many other types of blades. They just didn't look like these modern disposable razors.

At the time of the Prophet (SAW), cutthroat razors were probably used. They look like this:

[Chuck]

Razors have been around as long as many other types of blades. They just didn't look like these modern disposable razors.

At the time of the Prophet (SAW), cutthroat razors were probably used. They look like this:

Going bit off topic, but interesting to know when razor was invented. As far as I know modern style razor came in to use in 18th century.

Old razors used to look like this:
http://www.anythinganywhere.com/comm...ak-cosmet.html

here is 19th century turkish razor:
http://plazantiques.com/asia/sidearm...tury-0013.html

I wouldn't come close to those razors for cutting my hair even by a mile.

[Woodrow]

Going bit off topic, but interesting to know when razor was invented. As far as I know modern style razor came in to use in 18th century.

Old razors used to look like this:
http://www.anythinganywhere.com/comm...ak-cosmet.html

here is 19th century turkish razor:
http://plazantiques.com/asia/sidearm...tury-0013.html

I wouldn't come close to those razors for cutting my hair even by a mile.

Until the discovery of how to make tempered steel the old razors would have been very dull and shaving would have been more of scraping the beard off rather then cutting it off. Quite uncomfortable I would imagine. The old bronze razors would not have held an edge and because of the copper content in the bronze a nick would have been quite dangerous as copper is poisonous to humans. I would not be surprised if death caused by shaving occured often. It is surprising that shaving ever became a custom among any people.

[Abdul Qadir]

The post specifically said changing Allah's creation without permission, not just changing Allah's creation. Circumcision, clearing the armpits of hair, and trimming the moustache are not only permitted, but ordered and therefore obligated. When we are obligated to leave the beard to grow and trim the moustache, we comply. There is no contradiction.

Bro, is Hussain Yee a Chinese?

[Sampharo]

Brother Sampharo, you are a student of Hussain Yee?! Wow! I didn't know that. :D

I've watched several of his programmes and conference speeches on Peace TV. Mashaa'Allah he is a very peaceful and humble man. May Allah bless him.

Alhamdolillah yes. He spends a lot of time on his Al-Khaadem center where he is making magnificent work with orphans and dawah, but whatever time he has he uses for classes and lectures. Kindest man, proper scholar who speaks Arabic fluently and studied for decades in the greatest sheikh circles.

Bro, is Hussain Yee a Chinese?

Yes, in descendency. Malaysians are of three races: Malay, Indian, and Chinese.

Going bit off topic, but interesting to know when razor was invented. As far as I know modern style razor came in to use in 18th century.

Old razors used to look like this:
http://www.anythinganywhere.com/comm...ak-cosmet.html

here is 19th century turkish razor:
http://plazantiques.com/asia/sidearm...tury-0013.html

I wouldn't come close to those razors for cutting my hair even by a mile.

Well yes of course NOW that you are looking at a picture of a tool subjected to the elements for hundreds of years. :) Back then it was a shiny straight piece of grooming equipment. Blacksmith craft was good enough to make needles that go through leather, and Japanese nihonto swords from the 10th century had an edge sharp enough to cleanly cut through bones.

Like brother Woodrow mentioned, tempered steel is when a real sharp edge started to be possible, and the chinese and indians had that since 300 BC, before even Christ, while the world famous Damascus Steel was available in the Middle East since the 5th century AD, meaning at least 150 years before the prophet's time.

[Abdul Qadir]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdul Qadir
Bro, is Hussain Yee a Chinese?
Yes, in descendency. Malaysians are of three races: Malay, Indian, and Chinese.

wow..he is an inspiration Alhamdulillah...it shows how islam has been delivered all across the globe. Allahumma Salli 'alaa Muhammad wa 'alaa aali Muhammad...

[Asiyah3]

:sl:
Can a man revert to Islam but not grow facial hair?
:wa:

Since nobody has answered this question... Yes, a man can become/be a muslim even if he doesn't grow facial hair. Allah is the most Merciful, Kind :statisfie

(I'm a sister, so I'm not enough knowledgable about the beard-ruling, but) I hope you won't get confused because of it. Anyway, don't get your mind too mixed :p

May Allah guide you and the whole ummah

[Abdul Qadir]

Since nobody has answered this question... Yes, a man can become/be a muslim even if he doesn't grow facial hair. Allah is the most Merciful, Kind :statisfie

(I'm a sister, so I'm not enough knowledgable about the beard-ruling, but) I hope you won't get confused because of it. Anyway, don't get your mind too mixed :p

May Allah guide you and the whole ummah

Salam bro. Yes, a muslim is still considered a muslim even if he shaves his beard, drinks alcohol, has illegal sexual intercourse, does MINOR shirk like doing acts of worship for others to see etc etc..but in all these mentioned acts, he is actually sinning. so he has to seek forgiveness from Allah and not indulge in such activities.

[Sampharo]

EDIT. Sorry misunderstood for a sec. :) never mind

[Abdul Qadir]

EDIT. Sorry misunderstood for a sec. :) never mind

Bro, There are two classes of Shirk, minor and major...

[Abdul Qadir]

EDIT. Sorry misunderstood for a sec. :) never mind

LOL..ok...masha Allah..

[uksister]

Praise be to Allaah.

We ask Allaah Almighty to increase you in faith and to make you content with the truth.

Your question includes two issues:

1 – the ruling on cutting women’s hair. Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

We do not know anything (to disallow) cutting women’s hair. What is forbidden is shaving it. You should not shave your hair but you may cut it and reduce its length or volume; we know of nothing wrong with that. But that should be done in a proper manner which will please you and your husband. You should come to some agreement with him on a kind of haircut that does not resemble kaafir women, because if you leave it long, it will be a lot of trouble to wash it and comb it. So if the hair is very long or thick, and the woman cuts it to reduce its length or volume, that doesn’t matter. Cutting some of it will make it more beautiful, which will please both the woman and her husband. So we do not know of any reason to disallow that. But shaving it altogether is not permissible, except in the case of sickness. And Allaah is the Source of strength.

See Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, part 2, p. 515

It was narrated in Saheeh Muslim that Abu Salamah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan said: “The wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to cut their hair until it came just below their ears.” (al-Hayd, 320)

Al-Nawawi said: this indicates that it is permissible for women to cut their hair short.

But women should avoid resembling kaafir women or immoral women when they cut their hair

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said:

It is not permissible for a woman to cut her hair short in the back and leave the sides longer, because this involves disfiguring and fooling about with her hair which is part of her beauty, and it also involves imitating the kaafir women. This prohibition also applies to haircuts which are named after kaafir women or animals, like the “Diana” cut, named after a kaafir women, or the “lion” cut or “mouse” cut, because it is haraam to imitate the kaafirs or to imitate animals, and because that involves fooling about with a woman’s hair which is part of her beauty.

Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, 2/516,517

2 – Removing facial hair.

Shaykh Muhammad al-Saalih ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

With regard to hair which is abnormal, because it grows in places where hair does not usually grow, such as a woman having a moustache or hair growing on her cheeks, there is nothing wrong with removing this, because it is abnormal and is disfiguring to the woman.

The Standing Committee was asked about women removing facial hair, and they replied as follows:

It is OK for a woman to remove hair on the upper lip, thighs, calves and arms. This is not the same as plucking (eyebrows), which is forbidden.

‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/194, 195

The Standing Committee was also asked:

What is the ruling on a woman removing hair from her body; if it is permissible, then who is allowed to do that for her?

They answered:

It is permissible for her (to remove) everything except her eyebrows and the hair on her head; it is not permissible for her to remove those, or to remove anything from the eyebrows whether by shaving or any other means. She, her husband or one of her mahrams may do that for her, with regard to the parts of the body that they are permitted to see; or another woman may do that, with regard to the parts of the body that she is permitted to see

‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/194

The hair of the private parts and the thighs may not be seen by either another woman or a mahram.

It is forbidden for a woman to remove her eyebrows or part of them by any means, whether it be by shaving, cutting, using a depilatory substance, because this constitutes the plucking for which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who does it, i.e., the women who plucks all or part of her eyebrows, claiming that it is for the purpose of beautification, or the woman who does that for her. This is changing the creation of Allaah which the Shaytaan promised to enjoin upon the sons of Adam.

[Asiyah3]

Salam bro. Yes, a muslim is still considered a muslim even if he shaves his beard, drinks alcohol, has illegal sexual intercourse, does MINOR shirk like doing acts of worship for others to see etc etc..but in all these mentioned acts, he is actually sinning. so he has to seek forgiveness from Allah and not indulge in such activities.

I'm not a bro<_<

Anyway, true :statisfie

[Abdul Qadir]

I'm not a bro<_<

Anyway, true :statisfie

lol..........