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crayon
12-12-2009, 11:02 AM
I read an interesting statement the other day, it got me wondering:

God must exist, for if he did not, morality would be meaningless, and nothing, not even the massacre of millions of people would be wrong.

What do you think?
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noorseeker
12-12-2009, 11:41 AM
Why do people without faith have morals, are they inbred in us,

I ask my self if i was not muslim, what kind of life would i lead
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Danah
12-12-2009, 11:48 AM
^ Lets ask the question in another way:
From where do the morals come?

Allah created Adam to be the first human on the face of the Earth, he was a monotheist worshiping Allah alone, above all, he was a prophet.

So from the early beginning of humans' life on the earth there was the religion of monotheism and from the early beginning there were the morals that come basically along with the religion and worshiping the one and only one God. In other words, morals are coming from the teaching of the religion.


As for those who doesn't have any faith, they take the morals from the religions, even if they are not believing on the religion itself.
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Supreme
12-12-2009, 12:49 PM
I wholeheartedly agree Danah. Morals come from religion. There is no doubt about that. There may have been a sense of morality before religion, but religion set morals in stone, and gave consequences in the afterlife, as well as this life, for violating moral codes. Without moral and religious leaders, what happens? The Soviet Union happens, where killing people in their thousands and expecting no consequences is the norm.
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crayon
12-12-2009, 01:44 PM
Interesting thoughts everyone.

But does the argument I mentioned above make sense? That, even if only for the sake of morals holding any meaning, a God must exist?
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Insaanah
12-12-2009, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by crayon
I read an interesting statement the other day, it got me wondering:

God must exist, for if he did not, morality would be meaningless, and nothing, not even the massacre of millions of people would be wrong.

What do you think?
But the massacre of millions of people does occur despite the existence of God, and morality is meaningless in certain respects in the Western world. And thats the argument that some use to suggest that there is no God. However, that does not mean that God does not exist. That is just people not following the laws set down by God.

:sl:
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Supreme
12-12-2009, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Insane Insaan
But the massacre of millions of people does occur despite the existence of God, and morality is meaningless in certain respects in the Western world. And thats the argument that some use to suggest that there is no God. However, that does not mean that God does not exist. That is just people not following the laws set down by God.

:sl:
I don't think that was point sister crayon was trying to convey. I think she was saying that without God, such evils would not be known as such- they would not be seen as evil without the existence of God. Also, the existence of God also assures people that those who would commit such genocides are duly punished, if not in this world, then in the hereafter. In other words, morality is not a human concept or a natural one- it must have been inherited by God, and made known to us by God.
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Junon
12-13-2009, 01:08 AM
Salaam

The Moral Argument

1 If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2 Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3 Therefore God exists.

There is argument on this point but generally philosophers of all stripes generally agree that if God does not exist then objective morals do not exist.
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KAding
12-13-2009, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by crayon
Interesting thoughts everyone.

But does the argument I mentioned above make sense? That, even if only for the sake of morals holding any meaning, a God must exist?
I am not quite following, surely morals have meaning because, fundamentally, they are about reducing suffering? Less suffering is better morals! I don't see how God comes into play there, since we can certainly 'measure' how much harm is done when we do something.
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titus
12-13-2009, 04:08 PM
But the massacre of millions of people does occur despite the existence of God, and morality is meaningless in certain respects in the Western world.
The massacres have been perpetrated by people of religion also (including Jewish, Christian and Muslim).

I wholeheartedly agree Danah. Morals come from religion.
I believe it is the other way around.

I don't believe that most people are innately evil and that religion was created in order to give their thought and feelings a structure.
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